Mrs. Kirchner promises next Ibero-American summit will address Malvinas issue
Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said that the sovereignty claim over Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich islands and surrounding maritime spaces, illegitimately held by Britain, will be paramount in next year’s Ibero-American summit declaration.
Mrs. Kirchner was privileged with the closing speech of the two-day 19th summit held in Estoril, Portugal, since Argentina has taken over the pro tempore chair of the meeting and will be hosting the summit next year in Mar del Plata.
The president also thanked summit members for their support to Argentina’s South Atlantic islands claims, as has happened in previous occasions, and underlined the importance that such a support was part of the final Estoril declaration.
“All of us present here are members of the United Nations and we all know the UN has called on Argentina and the United Kingdom to begin sovereignty negotiations over the Malvinas Islands but this has not happened because of Britain’s point blank rejection”, insisted Mrs. Kirchner.
However the issue has been further complicated with the coming into effect December first of the Lisbon Treaty which considers “Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich Islands and the Argentine Antarctic sector as associate territories of the European Union”.
“The Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich Islands and surrounding maritime spaces are integral part of Argentine territory and are illegitimately occupied by the United Kingdom” said a strongly worded protest released by Argentina with instructions to be presented before all EU 27 members by the Argentine embassies.
Nevertheless Mrs. Kirchner thanked Portuguese Primer Minister Jose Sócrates for his disposition “to take the issue to the European Community”, an important step before “returning the claim to United Nations”.
Argentine Foreign Affairs secretary Jorge Taiana also addressed the issue during the closing press conference in Estoril.
Slowly but steadily, “we continue to advance in the creation of conditions to make the United Kingdom sit with us to discuss the Malvinas sovereignty, as has been repeatedly recommended by United Nations”.
“We are satisfied with the support from all heads of state present at the Ibero-American summit to Argentina’s sovereignty claim over the Malvinas”.
He also said that Argentina for the “umpteenth time is iterating its protest because the Lisbon Treaty (‘a kind of EU constitution’) includes the Malvinas islands as part of their territory”.
Taiana said that formal protests have been presented before Brussels and the capitals of all EU country members.
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Do those idiots really believe that the rest of South America (except their buddy Chavez who sponsor them) care about their crying about the Falklands? Amazing..
What is a lie, and they, the clowns in Argie fantasy land, know that.
April 2-14th June Dictatorship prevailed
Yep Jorge, you have rights before the war and today you have even more rights. You have the right of being and staying a moron, the right of stopcrying about the Falklands (UK), you have the right to respect the will of the people of the Falklands (UK), keep on voting for incompetents, screwing up your country by not fixing the real issues, you have the right to pay more taxes that will help paying your nation's debt off to other countries, the right to acknowledge that Emperor Bush is smarter than you, that the US will win the world cup in South Africa (lol) and that we, the US, are the best of the world and have the right to invade your country for more oil, and..and..and you have the right that your country is a complete failure, plus that the Kirchners are an insult to your country and the world. :) laugh
I meant to type: you have the right “to accept” that your country is a complete failure. You have plenty of rights Jorge (less than me of course). You only don't have the right, to invade the Falklands (UK) and annex it, or have any right to invade and annex any other nation.
You can suck on that for the night jorgie boy.
You realy dont win many of these little chats do you!
I know that it's very difficult and painfull for all of us to talk about the sovereignty, it's really difficult to be objetive when it's on the table a cause that involts to all of us.
The history that is told in argentina since we are children, doesnt coincid very much with the arguments of the islanders, the malvinas cause is just a small passage on the argentine history at high school, i think it's a big mistake, i started to investigate about your arguments, it will take years, meantime i have been talking to my profesors, they know much more tham me because they studyed at the university, and they told me that some of the arguments of the islanders are true, but there also enogh reasons to hold that we have rights on the islands.
I have always recognized that the falklands-malvinas are british, because the whole population belongs to the british culture, anyway if we have solid arguments that hold our sovereign rights on the islands, we must find a fair solution for all of us, may be sharing the sovereignty would be the best way, or may be not, i just know two things.
The solution to the conflict musts benefit to all of us (argentines and islanders).
On the other hand insulting or being arrogant like some compatriots or some islanders do, is such a pathetic way wich doenst resolve anything, it just increases a litle someones ego.
Meantime i will keep on investigating, i have always cared about this cause, because i dont want to omit anything to my future piupirls next year, i want to tell them about all the arguments, they will have their conclutions.
You told me to keep voting incompetents! YOU? the people who voted for Bush!!! Get the f*ck out of here you as***le! You are the s**t of this world!
P.S. You'll win tthe world cup!!! LOL......LOL....keep dreaming jerk!!!!!
khh, do you love nicholas? well convince him and let him give you a F***ING from behind!!!
Now the question is, what arguments of islanders did your professors told you to be truth?.
Then you said:
“”I have always recognized that the falklands-malvinas are british, because the whole population belongs to the british culture“”
Thats the most simplistic thought i've ever seen. Many nations, if not all, were made of different cultures, but it does not makes our territory italian, spanish, french, etc.
If a nations A, invade the nation B, then expell the population of nation B inplanting its own, will that makes them owners of the territory becouse its culture came from nation A?.
I wish you the best of luck with your students?, i only hope that political sides does not affect the way you teach.
Best Regards.
Acerca de la mezcla cultural de argentina, es verdad que todas las naciones, fueron creadas en base a diferentes culturas, pero no se puede comparar la que sucedio en argentina con lo de las islas, la argentina no esta bajo soberania italiana española, francesa etc, las islas nos gute o no estan bajo soberania britanica, la gente es britanica, y eso es algo que no se puede ignorar,yo siempre me pongo en el lugar del otro, y le pido al otro que se ponga en el mio, en este caso ambas partes tiene argumentos solidos para sostener lo que dicen, es por eso que hay que encontrar una solucion justa para ambas partes, mal que les pese a unos cuantos intereses, te sugiero que leas los argumentos de los isleños, investigues si son verdaderos o no, y luego saca tus conclusiones, los podes leer en www.falklandshistory.org
Por ultimo si yo digo que le voy a enseñar a mis alumnos todos los puntos de vista acerca del conflicto, y que luego ellos sacaran sus conclusiones, eso significa que las posturas politicas no afectan my forma de enseñar, no busco comerles el cerebro, yo quiero que piensen.
Cheers
You gave me the link: www.falklandshistory.org, but actually i wanted to know what is the truth for your professors and you.
I do that, Axel, i think how the other side might feel about this situation, and all i recognize from them is to those who born there and fight for their home. I respect that and i know they are going to lie, cheat, whatever they can for keeping things unchanged.
The fact is Axel, that exist a sovereignty dispute that must be solved.
While in every nation on the world different cultures enriched the inhabitants identity, in malvinas with its control of inmigration, almost 90% of inmigrants came from the uk or other common wealth members. This means their teachers, lawers, officers, specialists, medics, soldiers, etc.
So for negociate sovereignty, the uk pretend us to include a third party(islanders) but most of these guys, traveled 8000 miles to become the third party.
Acording to their constitution (correct me if im wrong):
The governor (named by the foreignt office) can make laws.
The governor can grant land.
The governor can appoint who ever he want for attorney general, chief of police, and the officer commander of the “falklands” defense force.
the governor (which is named from the uk's foreign office) appoint
the chief justice, the president of the court of appeal, and the justice of appeal.
Did i mention that their education is provided by london including its selfdetermination propaganda?.
So Islander, i underestand that you want to remain british, becouse you are british, but be serious, you do not represent a different entity from the uk. Ergo you cant participate in negotiation of sovereignty with argentina as a third party.
When it suits you, you are british, when sovereignty comes to mind, you are something else like Australia or NZ.
I dont need to clear this up but you remain listed in the colony list of the UN decolonization committe. So get real, you are british as any person born in london, lets talk about sovereignty mano a mano and solve this dispute.
The governor (named by the foreignt office) can make laws.
No.
The governor can grant land.
No.
The governor can appoint who ever he want for attorney general, chief of police, and the officer commander of the “falklands” defense force.
the governor (which is named from the uk's foreign office) appoint
the chief justice, the president of the court of appeal, and the justice of appeal.
No. The governor appoints the person recommended by the FIG.
Education is not provided by London, though the Government does follow the same curriculum as the UK. Unlike Argentina where this is Government prescribed, teachers define what is taught, Government merely sets guidelines.
Luis, basically you're wrong in every respect.
Let us also not forget that the Falklands were only ever placed on that list because the British Government put them on it, they only remain on it because of Argentine lobbying and the Committee of 24 have never visited the islands or asked the people living there what they want.
Talk, why won't you talk with the islanders, instead of inventing excuses why they don't get a voice in their own future.
hahaha should i believe those “no” becouse you said so?.
Obviusly the solution is not going to be exactly what both parts wish, all of us (argentines and islanders) will have to cede a 50%, that's the key of democracy, the only one solution for this problem is debate, debate, debate and debate, i hope some day the three goverments can hunderstand it, because both parts have solid and legitim rights.
Justin answered 100% regarding Governor,s powers. THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN 3 WAY TALKS- ARG. REFUSES TO RECOGNISE OUR EXISTENCE AS A COUNTRY OR TERRITIORY WITH OUR OWN GOVT! All talks have to be 2 sides - Argentina and British - the British side is part UK and part Islanders and even then Arg makes it very clear that we have no rights at all. Oh for the day when Arg Govt and Falklands Govt could sit down and debate!
You still miss the point totally on types of democracy and selfgovernment - ours is different in style to yours - but the end result is the same - the people have the power. Britsh? Look say a Scotsman or a Welshman - you are british. - you had better stand back quick as they will tell you plainly they are Scottish or Welsh first and foremost - then ultimatley British yes. Same here - I am first and foremost an Islander - second by overall nationality I am British
Indeed many recognise my unique qualities.
“you just dont substantiate anything,”
No I answered your questions, the answers happen to be accurate. I also do substantiate my comments, such as pointing out the documentary evidence of Thomas Helsby's diary giving a contemporary account of the events of 1833, Charles Darwin's diary and Fitzroy's diary all of which contradict Argentine claims.
In return you repeat Argentine claims that have no factual basis, with no substantiation.
You have a nice day now.
To say the British Government doesn't want to talk is inaccurate, the British Government will talk if and when the FIG requests it. They will not enter talks without the consent of the FIG.
Now the FIG have offered direct talks with the Argentine Government, who refuse insisting they will only speak to the British Government.
So is what you're suggesting that the FIG should push the British Government to talk to the Argentine Government? Why bypass the islanders at all?
Firstly, i will allways repeat untill the day i die that the 3 goverments must talk and resolve the conflict with a fair solution for all of us (argentines and islanders), because we all have solid and legitim rights.
The posture of our goverment is totally imbecil, they can't ignore the existance of 3000 people, what i suggested is that we should push our goverments to resolve the problematic, it's true the fact that the FIG offered to talk to the argentine goverment, but they only offered to talk about cooperation and others issues, however the sovereignty is not on discution, those were the words of your goverment.
In this way the solution to the conflict is so far away.
Islander, you said:
“”Arg makes it very clear that we have no rights at all“”
You should know thats not true, Argentina recognize your rights as any human beings.
So to say Argentina does not recognize you having rights its unfair and Prejudice our commitment with human rights.
Now if you reffered about rights to the territorie, we offered to islanders to have immediately rights to reside in malvinas under de jure judiciary recognition. They refused to accept it.
So, about the territorie, i repeat the same thing im always saying, there is a sovereignty dispute that must be solved. and you remain listed as a colony, why should Argentina recognize you rights over a territorie we believe rightfully ours?.
In my opinion, your “selfdetermination” and “selfgovernment” ends everytime our president and your prime minister talks about you. It happened with Di Tella, it happened with the meeting of Cristina Kirchner and Brown, it happened when the brits wanted to cede sovereignty to us. Britain has the power to cede sovereignty to Argentina and thats the moment you realise that the british commitment to islanders “selfdetermination/selfgovernment” its the card of the moment.
So you vote for summer, sawle, etc. but they have no authority to block a transfer of sovereignty if london agree with us. Not only that, they have no authority to impide any dessition the uk takes on your behalf.
PD: Islander, i have no intention to offend you, i know you are very respectfull with your comments, and i dont agree with you but i respect you. So sometimes i sound like agressive but im not used to write in this language and sometimes pick the wrong words, so i hope you have patience with me.
Saludos.
I think that a real democracy is where everybody has the same posibilitys, no matter if came from germany or egipt, jew or catholic, or if thinks differently. This premise doesn happens exactly, not only in my nation but in all nations, even in the US.
I've been reading malvinas manifestos of candidates for legislative, and almost all agree on an anti-argentine policy. One even sugested pression on argentina with the use of the argentines political visits to the islands (familys of fallen soldiers) as an instrument of pression to our nation. One even insulted us in his manifesto.
Of course most of you agree on that hard line, but we must dont forget that many of them came from britain or other common wealth members. I wonder what would happens if those instead of been born in britain would had born in mainland Argentina?.
The point is that you are too afraid of an argentinization of malvinas, while you are too britishined if such word exist. More british than the british. Of course you are british but what would happens if malvinas open its frontiers to whoever wants to become part?.
If you open the frontiers only to argentines, im sure it would suffer an argentinization,a pro-argentine population. But if you open it to all, it would develop trully democracy. So you would not avoid talking about sovereignty with us but you could say you gave equal oportunity to all to live there and grow. Thats democracy. And thats how natural nations develop.
You think you live in democracy, you think you govern yourself, you think you vote your representative, but you rely on people who came from britain, medics, lawers, judges, polices, soldiers, specialists,etc. You rely power on a guy named by an office in london. Your education rely on british universitys, your “selfdetermination” rely not in your own desitions but in pression made by press or by making lobby in westminster against political dessition made by politics.
Instead of searching for autonomy or selfgovernment, you seek a continuation of the colonialist policy. I dare you to convice seriously your neighbors that you think the malvinas should be returned to Argentina and that the queen is an old b...h. Then we will see how much time democracy worked for you.
Dont forget that more than 90% of people who live in malvinas came from britain or other common wealth members.
Foreign born population. British source:
www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/pdf/FALKLAND ISLANDS.pdf
www.politics.co.uk/briefings-guides/issue-briefs/foreign-policy/falkland-islands-$366694.htm
No offence and no problem,I appreciate and understand what you say, yes we dont agree and see things from different perspectives -its democracy! thats why there is the dispute - which one day we will solve in a way where both sides need to be able to show that they have got their baseline principles accepted by the other - and then move on. How and When remains to be seen.
Yes UK could if it wanted to - hand over sovereignty to Buenos Aires tomorrow - but it would not for the simple reason that the Government would be out of power within a few days by loosing a vote of confidence - there is no way that the british Parliament - would allow a Govt to do that against the peoples wishes. Again its one of the differences with your written type of constitution - and the british unwritten type one - yes it would appear legal for the british to do all sorts of things-same as the queen in theory has all sorts of powers - but - in reality and practise those things do not happen that way.
As for Arg not allowing us any rights - i just refer to remarks by Arg Foreign Ministers who are on record saying that we Islanders have no right to be consulted nor have an opinion about anything to do with our homeland(by birth) and future.
Anyway the sole reason of having the uk the dessition of ceding sovereignty to Argentina and not you, is the reason why you are still a colony.
Cheers.
Yes I was puzzled how it happened and we are only 1 hr time difference I think.A UK Government would no more decide to hand us to Argentina against our wishes than an Argentine President would order militarty invasiopn of say Uruguay without the backing of the Argentine senate and house of deputies . Both the British Prime Mininster and your President could announce they are taking those decisions - but in reality both would be out of office a few days later! Power is sometimes theoretical rather than actual realistic,
No British Govt would ever do such against our wishes and without consulting us, nor would any Arg president ever go to war without consulting and getting the backing of your elected members.
Colony - Ok look back at the relationship between UK and its territories say in 1900 - then compare those with the level of internal self government and freedom of control from UK that we have today - then you will see we are not a Colony - to us a colony is and oldfashioned and irrelevant and insulting word. Yes we are a “Dependent Territory ”- like several in the Carribean- purely in so far as we depend on UK for defence and foreign affairs - but there in practise it ends.
Yes no doubt 90% of us are of UK or other Commonwealth origen - I think about 70% of your peoples are of west european origin as well. How come they are allowed to be Argentines then - if those of us born here for 7-8 generations are not allowed also to belong to our country?
Openess - the rules are exactly the same here for someone to come in and live and work - be they born in UK or Buenos Aires. The only difference is in owning land and property - unless you have a British Passport you can only do so with special permission from our Govt - that even applies to people from the EU as well! This is not anti anybody - just that as a small place it could in theory otherwise be quite easy for people from outside to end up owning the whole place!
The fact that they can do that, is the fact that prove you dont have selfdetermination. besides that, why you gets so nervious every time our president and your prime minister talks about you?.
About the colony definition, i dont use it as an insult to islanders, i use it to define from my point of view and the UN point of view, your governmental system.
The fact that it was the uk who put the islands in the category of colony years ago, does not makes the colony list irrelevant. At the contrary they continue to be an unresolved case of colonization.
You might think like Justin, that we have the power to influence the UN decolonization committe, well, we dont, if we could be one of the members of the security council with veto power, may be your theory could be correct, but unfortunately we dont have that power.
About percentage of population, we give freedom to all person who deside to live in Argentine territorie. Even you. we accept everybody who wish to live here and we protect their freedom.
You say proudly that your rules are the same in malvinas for people who born in uk or Buenos Aires, but from all foreign born in malvinas, 90% came from the uk or other common wealth members. Will you make me believe that it is easier to a guy to travel 8000 miles to live there than a guy who travel 600km?. Where are the islanders brazilians, bolivians, chileans, argentinians?.
Get to reality, while argentinian represent 1.5%, british represent 90%.
OK I know you are nor insulting us by using the word colony - it was to explain how we know here it no longer truly applies as we and other similar places have moved forward since the bad old days.
We do not get upset when Britan and Argentina talk as we know that the British position - from all parties is -no discussion on sovereignty
against our wishes, so we know that yes everytime they meet the Arg President has to raise the issue - the British Primeminister responds with their view - and then both move on to the more important international and bilateral issues they need to discuss.
It is logical that the great majority of people not born here come from english speaking countries like UK and commonwealth - same as most of those going to Argentina would be of spanish speaking country origen. But here it is changing - if you made another survey today it would show a big jump in the % of people born in Chile who now live here. We have a couple of Brazilians, not sure of Bolivians - but reality is we are a cold country for them to live in!
The only difference today in a person from UK coming 8000miles to say an Argentine coming 600km to live might be in the language and unless the one from Argentina had good english then yes it would naturally be more difficult to start.
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