Peru ministers disagree and public opinion divided on HMS Montrose incident
Peruvian ministers openly disagreed over the recent decision to turn back the Royal Navy’s HMS Montrose, in solidarity with Argentina and its sovereignty claims over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands.
“At the Ministry of Defence we were in favour of the frigate visiting Peru, but the boss in these affairs is Foreign Affairs and not Defence. Relations with other countries falls under the Foreign affairs ministry”, said Defence minister Luis Alberto Otálora.
This is not the first time ministers from the administration of President Ollanta Humala openly disagree, a situation which has triggered criticisms to the head of state and his cabinet chief.
This last incident took off last Monday when the Peruvian Foreign Affairs ministry Rafael Roncagliolo unexpectedly announced it had withdrawn the authorization for HMS Montrose to call in Peru as had been originally voted in Congress, following on strong criticism from the Argentine press.
Roncagliolo decision was praised by Argentine president Cristina Fernandez but in Peru the minister was accused of putting into jeopardy the good relations with the UK and as a former minister Franciso Tudela said “exposing Peru as following the “Chavist block” in reference to Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.
Defence minister Otálora said Peru must keep doors open so that the UK frigate visit can take place sometime in the near future.
“The coming of the frigate has not been cancelled, it’s suspended. No county, including Argentina can question the sovereign decisions of Peru”.
Former minister Jose García Belaunde, under the previous administration of Alan Garcia, said the incident has been blown out of proportion and Peru has “the option to deny the authorization”.
Furthermore he rejected that the Argentine government can be described as belonging t the “Chavist group”.
However Garcia Belaunde admitted the issue was bundled and the authorization for the frigate’s visit should have been denied by the ministerial cabinet, which most probably would not have reached the public eye.
What Roncagliolo did was to request permission from Congress which has the last word on the presence of foreign military in Peru, but then “he changed his mind”.
Now the Peruvian congress is also upset for having been discredited.
To this must be added the minister’s contradictions who said the change had been announced to London with anticipation, something which the British embassy emphatically denies, that also reproaches the fact that Foreign minister Jeremy Browne was not informed during his visit to Lima last week.
Roncagliolo is the only really ‘left-wing’ minister in President Humala’s cabinet, and he will be summoned to congress to explain what happened, and could even face a ‘no confidence vote’.
The controversy has reached the media and social networks with those believing Peru did the right thing in supporting Argentina while others recall that Argentina has not been a loyal associate given the undercover sale of arms to Ecuador in 1995 when the border conflict between the Pacific neighbours.
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122 comments Feed
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“exposing Peru as following the “Chavist block” in reference to Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.
Looks like some of the Peruvians have got the RG's taped.
It's clear Argentina won the battle and lost the war.
I'd also wonder why my country's foreign policy is dictated by a foreign alien power.
Then I'd wonder why the country was in a Chavist Bloc, turning away a ship from our second biggest investor.
Then I'd be really cheesed off, when I realised my country is effectively a puppet state of argentina.
CFK quote: “We will continue to insist again and again by the non-militarization of our region, the need to give a hand to peace, the need to respect international organizations. I want to remind all of you that there is a way to resolve differences and conflict differently, and that Argentina will always be on the side of peace. Our armed forces will only integrated by peacekeepers like in Haiti and Cyprus, ”she said.
But the simple fact is that Roncagliolo should have never allowed that ship to visit in the first place if Peru wants to remain consistent in their declaration and support to Argentina's claim and most important of all - these people can make a fuss now but they all know Argentina welcomes thousands of Peruvians (as well as Colombians, Chileans, Paraguayans, etc.) every year to get cheaper or free education, healthcare, job opportunities and if Argentina were to send them back, these countries would have a much more serious poverty problem than they have now.
Just google peruvian, colombian, or any country immigration to Argentina and you will see. Like it or not, Argentina has weight in this continent and whatever these ministers squabble about now won't affect their ultimate wish of getting along with Argentina.
Why would Argentina send them back?
Which is another reason why Argentina is seen as nothing but a bully of those weaker than itself.
And as a very large investor in Peru, the UK is uniquely placed to do Peru a huge amount of financial damage although it will not as it isn't a bully like Argentina.
When all is said and done I'd bet my house on a British warship docking in Peru before long.
People live dignified lives on $35,082 dollars per year.......
Argentina = GDP - per capita (PPP): $14,100 (2010 est.)
People are “muerto de hambre” on $14,100 dollars per year.......
Perú = GDP - per capita (PPP): $5,182 (2010 est.)
People starve like SUDACAS on $5,182 dollars per year.......
Conclusion: Argentina + Perú = SUDACAS MUERTOS DE HAMBRE
And this is how Cristina Kirchner psycho president of Argentina and her cronies get votes:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
It's their choice, and we wish them well in that relationship, of being forcefully raped by Chavez and then Kirchner, as part of some south american corruption club.
We I hope will not be sending our boats back there.
Undocumented immigration to Argentina is not penalised and anyone can request residency - and many people from other south american countries (and europeans now too) are doing just that.
So as I say, the internal quarrels of Peruvian politics doesn't concern Argentina. They need and depend on Argentina far more than Argentina depends on Peru.
Lordy lord... forget Brazil or USA or Canada... when you've got Chavez-stooge Argentina!
Forcing Peru to do something that is obviously damaging to Peru is simply bullying, you can claim as much as you like about education or medical support but if the UK decided to punish Peru then the damage will be 100 times worse than anything Argentina has done for Peru.
Although the UK will not punish Peru because unlike Argentina it will not bully a country that it is well aware is being bullied by another.
Politics altogether should not concern Argentina and by interfering with Peru's
international affairs Argentina has yet again shown its hand. This it absolutely has no right to do.
Peru needs the UK far more than it needs Argentina.
then in the next breath, argentina basicly says do what we ask or else,
if that is being friendly, then im glad argentina is not a great friend of the british then,
by christ, CFK would have the empire before the indipendence of it was dry on paper .
Learn some very very simple geography before you claim Chavez-stoogeland does anything for 'The Continent of America'. (P.S. here is mexico telling them to take their bullying and get furked www.marketwatch.com/story/mexico-wont-renegotiate-argentina-trade-pact-2012-03-22)
@13 If Peru doesn't need the UK, which is apparently the case, then that is fine. We can take our wares elsewhere (good pun there).
I would like to know on what basis you make this claim. It was the UK after all that sent this diplomat to tour South America just a few weeks ago and released statements from their foreign office explaining how they would like to push for better relations to foster economic opportunities with south american countries.
In case you haven't noticed - manufactured products are now being made all over the world - in fact, the UK has favored the service and finance industry long ago in their territory.
Raw materials and resources are what countries are after again and the UK doesn't have much of any of those.
The UK is a rich country but lets not fool ourselves, they are not in a position to distribute money freely any more. The IMF is now looking toward developing countries for cash now such as China, Brazil and South Africa because Europe is broke.
So all you have is just a market with purchasing power that has seen better days. Nothing that an emerging economy cannot offer.
So how does Peru need the UK again?
you fundamentally underestimate Europe, perhaps the biggest economic powerhouse in the world. It wont lag for long and give it a year or so it will be back and very strong.
as for Brazil; it cant go on raping and pillaging its own country's resources for very long.
Start here;
ukinperu.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?view=News&id=717579482
Europe is also still the 2nd largest investor in the IMF so the broke bit doesn't really match reality.
I think you need to learn the subject you're trying to be condescending on.
The UK alone doesn't decide EU economic policies or trading agreements. There is an independent body composed of representatives from member States to do just that.
What the UK can do is negotiate bilateral trade agreements. But that is the UK - not Europe.
Market assessments don't get any more amateurish than yours. The UK has a high investment grade rating because it's able to make money to repay its loans. Even after WW2 when we were categorically broke. We repaid pretty much all of our loans, rebuilt the economy and our fortunes in tens of years. We have a AAA status for good reason, because we make money.
Argentina has no investment grade rating, because you fail to repay anything, you're delinquent in most regards and you're simply a broken failed-state with no method of making money, other than stealing it. Why does Peru need the UK? Because with our partnership they will make money and share in the benefits. Why does Peru need Argentina? Argentina will lead them down the merry path to chavez-furked.
Peru seems to have chosen poorly.
PS. Peru is in South America, a sub-continent of America.
we are united, the same you do with NATO(the difference you are united for killing), and that bothers you so muchhhhhhhhhhh (MP make another article of Perú please, we want more of you, because this one is very similar to the lasts 3 or 4 of Perú).
continue crying......use the auxiliary fleet, waste money, waste money
nice too see that the credibility of INDEC continues around the world. absolutely every country outside S america and some in it have the RG's taped.
1. The return on investment is not generally that good.
2. The opportunities in developing country are so much greater.
So congrats you've got an AAA+ rating and Argentina has a B rating but at the end of the day, Argentina's economy has grown at Chinese levels for the past decade and the UK hasn't.
Did I congratulate you on your rating yet?
@19. The UK has aided Peru with BP 100,000 for a whole year? That is the price of a fancy car, or a shack in London suburbs... I'm sorry but I can't say I am impressed by their efforts at sending 8k per month to combat drugs.
I would like to dig the figures of how much Argentina spends on educating Peruvians for a whole year.
So says INDEC, perhaps the most discredited economic organisation on Planet Earth.
www.economist.com/node/21548229
www.nasdaq.com/article/argentinas-march-inflation-expectations-rise-to-30--utdt-20120320-01122
RG Land cooking the books. The stories are now legend and worldwide. fortunately the only people stupid enough to believe INDEC's figures are paid Le Camping morons like you.
Perhaps if you repaid the $2.1b you stole back to the banks you might be able to contribute to get your country out of the financial and political hole they are in. then again if you put the money back in we all know who would take it out...chuckle, chuckle.
'Meeting with Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ambassador Jose Antonio Meier, they discussed a range of bilateral issues, including strengthening commercial relations. The UK is the second largest investor in Peru including in the mining, financial services, energy, industry and telecommunications sectors.'
As for Argentina's educational spending, that is nothing more than peanuts and is barely worth a mention.
Regarding the UK's credit rating, it is far more advisable to invest in a stable economy with a stable government rather than to run the risk of investing in Argentina that is neither of the above.
Also the growth figures as I'm sure you are aware are nothing more than a lie, as everyone is well aware all of Argentina's economic figures particularly over the past 5 years are nothing short of detached from reality.
You tell us how great Argentina is doing, and how broke the uk is,
How many times do you have to be told,
If Great Britain has flat lined in the last four years, [and we have]
And Argentina has grown massively in the last four years, then why is the UK still a rich country, and holding its own,
While Argentina seems to be going downwards, to be fair should not Argentina be up with the rest, and catching up to Britain very fast,
After all did not Brazil do it,
Again, when we do grow [and this is predicted this year]
Where will this leave the great improving Argentina,
Mmmmmmmmmm
.
Opportunities in a failed-state where companies are closing every day because of aberrations to market, like import controls are not better in said failed state. Just look at Venezuela, Argentina and North Korea. Their jobs markets are furked.
Argentina hasn't grown at Chinese levels. These figures come from INDEC who just produce senseless nonsense. To add to this you just need to look at your infrastructure to know it's not the case. Your railways are dangerous, and plummet airlines fly old tin cans.
You are seriously having cognitive issues.
Troneas, if you think Argentina is good, where is the money Maximo was given by his mother to upgrade the fleet in plummet airlines?
But it seems to me you are just trying to be argumentative to prove your point throwing articles that have nothing to do with my claim.
www.firstpost.com/world/china-india-lose-turkey-argentina-the-new-growth-kings-75854.html
what are you jabbering on about? The figures come from INDEC, the most laughed at economic organisation in the Universe. no one believes a word it says bar you paid fools.
They do?
Take a look at this chart from the Economist:
www.economist.com/node/21541850
It shows GDP growth and states as a source: “IMF and Economist Intelligence Unit”
So are you guys going to debate seriously or keep on with the old stance of digging your head in the ground and yell: INDEC! KFC! BITCH! BOTOX! every time someone claims anything that you don't like?
”Argentina’s hectic growth was built on a weak currency (a legacy of default and devaluation in 2002), booming world demand for its agricultural commodities, strong growth in neighbouring Brazil, and a huge increase in government spending.” (Source: www.economist.com/node/21541850)
Hmm huge government spending from a government that doesn't have any money.
Get over it; I already did.
So I will ask you - on what do you base your claim that the government has no money?
According to the BCRA (Argentina's Central bank) homepage, international reserves currently stand at 47,286 million dollars.
Now I know you will next say that is a lie, that the BCRA cannot be trusted, nor the government, or that those are made up figures.
But show me yours - since you seem to be fully aware of how much money Argentina currently has in reserves.
So funny the support of the peruvian people to the Malvinistas hahaha
Why is not Think commenting on this article? Where is your peruvian support, Think? You have it inside Malvinistas :) Coward
you havent answered the same question posed by 34 and 33.
do you have any of the $2.1b personally? If so are you going to give it back? If not what did you spend it on because it wasnt planes (unless they were for your own personal use)...chuckle, chuckle.
Once the BCRA is not independent of the government the bi-yearly review of a US certain court ruling can and will seize some of those assets for unpaid debts. At last count I think it was for a few Billion.
KFC needs pretty much all of that $47 Billion to pay debtors, buy gas and buy voters. Your economy is broken, your democracy is in shambles.
Get over it.
So Troneas, where did the billions go that were supposed to buy new planes for Plummet airlines? Can you please tell us.
I know many people are unhappy that tax payers money is being directed towards a company that uses money.
The government defends its position by stating that it is a matter of national interest to have a national airplane company given the vast distances in Argentina and the fact that some routes would just not appeal to privately own companies. That and the fact that it sustains jobs (some which I would not be surprised are not quite needed).
@36. My remarks have not been racist - and if they were I appologise. I was simply stating how the situation is. As I know many Argentines fled to Spain during the crisis in 2001 and Spanish have taken refuge in Argentina before that, during the Franco dictatorship.
Peru can in fact do as it wants and they have done just that. They do not ignore what the situation is. It wasn't long ago when Evo Morales thanked the Argentine government when they decided to issue documents to the undocumented Bolivians in the country to make their life easier because they know how much money these people send back home and that, if they were to return, they would have no jobs and be a problem to their own government.
www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-22/argentine-senate-passes-bill-to-change-central-bank-charter
Share it with us,
And we promise not to tell anyone .
.
Your attempts to paint Argentina's actions as some kind of Human rights hero is also a failure. Amnesty International regularly scold Argentina for their endemic racism and terrible treatment of non-whites (latin americans, indigenous peoples).
The Peruvian executive wants Peru to be in the Chavist Bloc. He decided to align with the Chavist Bloc, and Chavez-stooge Argentina shouted at them to get in line.
End of Story.
And yes, racism exist. Perhaps the government could do more to prevent it but those are the actions of the people here. It happens in the UK also when they throw bananas at black people in stadiums.
At least its not the government that is practicing them like the US does by holding prisoners without trial and engaging in torture practices.
As for the “Chavist block” claim... well thats sensationalist crap from you to further your attacks. Yes Argentina and Venezuela have good relations but so does Brazil and Venezuela or Uruguay and Venezuela and so on... That does not mean Argentina follows their recipe nor is dependent upon their good will or anything else.
Substitute the word Argentina for Venezuela and hey presto here you have it. It's amazing how these people and banana republics work.
The botox queen is obviously trying to mould herself in chavez's image (yuk) and once more you have the rise of fascist dictatorships in South America. Put Bolivia into the equation as well.
Basically the UK to The Botox Queen is what the US is to Chavez.
Its amazing how developed countries and its people work:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7073131.stm
I seriously do not understand your hate. What is happening in Venezuela or Argentina doesn't affect you. If anything, its the crisis that began in the US in 2007 and has been carried on in most of Europe that is negatively affecting world economics.
So its a bit ironic you come in here and lecture about how “banana republics” do things when the european economy is a mess and affecting everyone else.
The world economy is in a mess unless of course you work for INDEC.
what is happening in V and A is affecting aBOT. how can you say otherwise. Your Preisdent is taking a lead from chavez and destabalising the entire continent. she complains about the Uk militarising the region then says nothing about the Venezuelan Army massing on the border with colombia, says nothing about the US in colombia but apparently we're militarising it despite being 300 miles away from the Rg mainland and needing a military force there to stop you from ethnically cleansing the Falklands like you tried to do in 1982.
you talk about the UK being imperialists in South america and then sit back and say absolutely fuckall about French guyana, actually on SA soil or the dutch islands off the top of SA such as Aruba and antilles.
youre a bunch of fucking hypocrites.
chavez doesnt like the Yanks so you now try and tag along on the UK's shirt tales - despite us wanting nothing to do with you. youre bascially attention seeking but no doubt Chavez will give her a cheap thrill for doing his bidding.
However - and you know this already - Argentina considers troops in the Falkland islands to be illegal.
And how has Argentina tried to “ethnically clean” the Falklands in 1982? In fact the first statement released to the islanders upon the arrival of Argentine soldiers was that their way of life was going to be respected (limitations notwithstanding considering the approach of a war).
so what cleansing are you talking about? no civilian native was killed during the war.
And you guys say nothing about the force removal of natives from the Chagos archipelago so don't come here to lecture about hypocrisy.
'the first statement released to the islanders upon the arrival of Argentine soldiers was that their way of life was going to be respected'... and the second was to drive on the right.....
What planet are you on Troneas??
Relationships with the UK for third-world nations are ALWAYS an unfair matter, and the UK has shown many many times a very antidemocratic and nothing peaceful attitude in its foreign affairs, they do not treat these type of nations as equals, they go as far as they can grabbing resources, they do not need to care about the relationships with the other nations as much as 3rd world countries do. They like their seat at the UN Security Council for example, they will never like sharing decisions with the rest of the world's nations...
The UK has related with another nations with militarization, wars and invasions a lot along its history ...
This is why it is needed to stop this right-winger conservative government they have today, and the interests and corporations that maintain them there, for the good of the democratic, peaceful and honest british people and for the good of the Security and peaceful/diplomatic international cooperation in this world.
@16 - Don't depend on a strong position of righteousness from Mexico. Their courage against Chavez is valiant, but Mexico is verging on 'failed state' status because the cartels have forced the police to put themselves into safe houses. The country is a total mess, with a government who have about as much control over their people as the Somali government does. Honduras is probably the only nation I'd trust below the Mexican border since they kicked Zelaya out. Panama is another debatable one. Most every nations south of Panama is lost to Chavez, and we all know how quick most of those islands in the Caribbean roll over like trained dogs (Antigua/Barbuda and Dominica being possible exceptions).
I really hope these smart politicians in Peru kick the Chavists out of the country like Honduras did with Zelaya. We can dream...
I can agree about the Falklanders rights of self determination but I know a lot of history to know that the British base their former Empire in racist policies.
You should read about your heroes from your former empire (Cecil Rhodes, Winston Churchil, etc.) before pointing with your fingers to others directions.
“Watch out for Bolivian laws, Peruvian friends and Chilean women!”
Take your pick.
The RGs obviously didn't even rate...
“The British government regrets Peru’s decision to cancel it and how this issue was handled,” the statement continued.
Well too bad! Live it with it sucker and, more importantly, get used it as is looks like your war ships are not welcomed to dock in any port in S. America. Take them the USA! They'll be happy to see you.
What happens next time? Other SA nations will soon get bored of it if they receive no gain - and what does Argentina have to offer them?
Imagine if it were an important issue rather than just a courtesy call.
My brother is a mining engineer in Peru & has been there for quite a few years now.
He has told me that a lot of Peruvians don't like the Argentines.
They say that the Argentines are arrogant & rude.
They also believe that they are better than other South Americans.
Funny, that! Now who'd thought that?*sarcasm*-Helber.
Yes I have several friends in Peru, they do not like Argentines. They may speak the same language but are of course a different race. Peruvians are the same indigenous population targeted by the average Argentine nationalist -
Amnesty - Argentina's indigenous population subject to racist violence, discrimination and imprisonment by racist Argentines - laht.com/article.asp?articleid=355829&categoryid=14093
And did the original inhabitants of Argentina speak Spanish?
If anyone is a hypocrite it's the Argentines, you ethnically cleansed the native population of Argentina, you continue to treat those left as criminals, you ethnically cleansed all your countries blacks in the early 20th century, they made up half of your countries population and you went on to ethnically cleans your country of left wing youth.
Amnesty - Argentina's native population subject to racist violence, discrimination and imprisonment laht.com/article.asp?articleid=355829&categoryid=14093
So argieland considers troops in the Falkland Islands to be illegal, does it? Tough titty. For what it's worth, the United Nations considers the Falkland Islands to be a territory being legally administered by Britain. So “nuts” to your “illegal”. And there wouldn't be so many troops there except for the belligerent activities of a certain nearby country, starting 30 years ago and continuing even today. Which country would that be, I wonder?
I don't propose to explain the matter of intended argie “ethnic cleansing” to you. The documents are available if you “choose” to look them up. How the argies planned to fly the entire population of the Falkland Islands to Montevideo. It was, after all, why the argie air force offered, some years earlier, to build the airstrip at Stanley, wasn't it? Who did you think you were kidding?
And why bring up Chagos? If you do some real careful research, you will find that the Chagos archipelago never had any natives. The so-called “Chagossians” were not and are not “natives”. Mostly, they were the descendants of slaves. They never owned any piece of property in the archipelago. Amazing that, eh? They were transported there to work on the plantations. Others arrived as fishermen, farm workers and plantation workers. But they never owned anything, so how could they have been “natives”? All the land was, initially, owned by the french and later by a Mauritian company.
You really must try to research things properly before slinging around wild assertions!
@51 Do try a little research. Basutoland (now Lesotho), Bechuanaland (Botswana), British Cameroons (Cameroon), British East Aftica (Kenya), Gambia, Canada, U.S.A. Shall I go on?
Oh yeah, you started with some good advise and then you lost it completely!!!
YES!! all Latin American Nations should speak with one voice, They should be telling Argentina-land to stop meddling in her neighbours business and sort her own country out.
Oh yeah, and stop embarrassing herself on the world stage as she is starting to give all all Latin American Nations, a bad name.
I am not sure what you meant to say here. Did you mean that the UK tried to force the native populations to speak English ?
Consider India. The UK as rulers used English as the language of government.
If you wanted a position ii the Civil Service, you had to speak and write English.
On independence, the Indians decided to keep English as the language of law and communication. Nobody forced them to do this. As several languages were spoken in India, English was used as a lingua franca but Hindi is still the main language of the people.
I would say that most of our ex-colonies have chosen to keep English as their main language - Canada chose to give equal status to French.
In China, there is an emphasis on English as it is the world's number one language for trade - mainly due to the USA.
Even Spain has allowed the Catalonian language to be used officially.
You are talking about things that happened two centuries ago and really have no relevance now. As to changing their costumes - no. Their way of life, yes. Britain put a stop to slavery, head hunting and cannibalism. We weren't all bad and our record compares more favourably than with the Spanish conquests of S. America
@66 Pretty much every nation that we made to speak English is happy about it now. Those nations who weren't invaded and weren't made to speak English, China, South Korea, Japan have real issues getting people to teach their kids and have to spend a lot of money on c!@p teachers.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDPK1kPWj1E
Well done on being savages.
Sorry but I do not believe that you have the “good” “of the honest British people”, at heart.
Quite the opposite in fact.
@51 taky
What percentage of the population, of the geographical area today called Argentina (excluding the Falklands of course), spoke Spanish in 1807.
And you talk of hypocrisy.
Rhodes said “to be born English is to win the first lottery of life”.
Can’t argue there.
@54 Helber Galarga
Did you read the article above?
“The coming of the frigate has not been cancelled, it’s suspended. No county, including Argentina can question the sovereign decisions of Peru”.
As for the story itself, its no surprise is it that the Peruvian opposition are, well, opposing; it is a democracy after all. The opposition is on the right in a country that has traditionally tilted towards the right; many are associated with the jailed former dictator Fujimori. The split in the government is more interesting and perhaps more serious, although apparently they argue in public a lot; my guess is that this flows from Humala's dissavowal of Chavez in the election and move to the right to take power, coming up against the more leftward and principled pressures of continental solidarity, as well as the weight of Argentina itself.
While the talk of a “Chavist bloc” is just scaremongering from the defeated right, I do hope that peru will in time move in the principled and radical direction as Argentina, Venezuel etc. In the meantime they are part of a wider continent united against Cameron's oil heist. put that in your pipe and smoke it. Viva Reina Cristina!
I hate to say this,
But you are the embarrassment my friend,
No disrespect but you can only be loyal to one master at a time,
By queen I take it, you are referring to CFK or Queen Elizabeth
If you are British, then Elizabeth would suffice,
If you are argentine CFK would suffice
, you cannot have two loyalties,
Justa royal thought .
.
They call it “care in the community”, a cost saving measure.
Come on, proper people. Significant that “cousin” is called “Adolfo”? How about alternative names for “cousin Adolfo”? So many spring to my mind. But what does everyone else think? My best thought so far is “dead meat”!
So your cousin looks good taking the piss out of the stupido british army, doesn't he. That chocolate british soldier in his red jacket and his funny tall hat, funny wasn't it. Not so fucking funny 30 years ago, if you were a member of the elite 5th Argentinian Marines, dug in on Mount Longdon. Ask them how funny they found the stupido british army. This soldier is a member of the Brigade of Guards. The same Brigade as the Scots Guards. Remember them! well you ought to. Your elite marines had two months to prepare their positions and stupido British soldiers who wear this same uniform, defeated them at the point of a bayonet, in the dark, uphill under intense machine gun fire. Stupido British Army! that stupido British Army travelled 8 thousand miles and at odds of three too one, directly opposite to military doctrine, defeated you in combat.
You are a troll, aren't you?
No one could be that besotted with that pumped-up rubber mattress, like you are.
She is a thieving, lying, hypocritical blot upon the Argentine scenery.
She's stealing her own country blind & wants to gut ours as well.
And for your information, l don't think GreekYoghurt is an embarrassment to Britain, but you are.
As a matter of fact l enjoy GY's posts.
l imagine him(sure its a him)as a young vigourous university student type that challenges all sacred cows.
So my dear B_K, how anyone could fawn so much on such an undeserving creature, like you do, is beyond me.
you are correct,,,,,,,
And 68 you really are a fool,
the British army is considered the army in the world, not by vote or by size, or equipment, but by sheer. Professionalism and courage.
They are the standard all others aim to and Sandhurst is were the rest of the world comes to train their armies
It hasn't lost a major conflict in its five hundred year history and it was the back bone to the largest Empire on the earth ever. The British are too modest when it comes to its armed forces as it likes to keep a low profile
Please if you guys want to commit suiside, at least do in in private, without embarrassing yourselves.
Peace
We did lose against the american colonists, then again we were fighting against our own, of course when they came north to take Canada, different result!
I'll tell you what really pissed me off about that spotty little oik in the video. It's this. If you go any where else in the world and pull the same stunt. You would get nicked and deported.
For instance, I've seen video of Argentine soldiers dressed in 1800 century uniform, performing the same sort of duties around their presidential palace and national monuments.
Could you iamgine this scenario, a British tourist marching along side of one of them taking the piss. Well I can. They would turn it into an international incident.
I can see, really, in my minds eye, I can see it. KFC (Spicy chicken best served hot,) standing before the camera accsuing the UK of deliberateltly insulting Argentines honour. I know this sounds crazy, but I think that would realy happen. I can even see TINMAM taking it to the UN.
As for Filippo, well he clearly has issues with a national humilitation, lets face it, it is not easy to be second best.
I agree with you ,
The American war of 1776,
Is regarded as a civil war abroad,
as you say family against family.
As for flippo,
Brain dead since berth apparently
Sometimes think its the reason for our so called special relationship, is the war of 1776. Lets face it, knowing what we know now, they were right. They fought for what believed was freedom, in the context (think I spelled that right) of their time. Wonder who's side I would have been on if I lived then. What I'm trying to say is that by todays standards their fight against us was just. Perhaps another reason for our so called special relationship? Any thoughts on the subject?
“At the Ministry of Defence we were in favour of the frigate visiting Peru, but the boss in these affairs is Foreign Affairs and not Defence. Relations with other countries falls under the Foreign affairs ministry”, said Defence minister Luis Alberto Otálora.
Your point is? What, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing?
Hell of a way to run anything, never mind a country.
“I'm not a troll and I don't think” – This much I believe.
“over the top praise” – Sycophantic is the word
“target of the evil death squad” – They obviously missed, sloppy.
@ 89 Benito
The Peruvians seem halfway towards pulling away from CFK and her shit, its Argentina I feel sorry for, your are going to have to live with the consequences of all this. And you are right it is only going to end one way.
I don’t think “laughing” is what the British Government are doing, but they can see what is nonsense here, and what is working for them.
Enough people voted for CFK to get her re-elected, I don’t know of any complaints of an unfair election, a lot of Argentinian people clearly did/do support her.
“target of the evil death squad”- They obviouly missed, sloppy
Couldn't stop laughing at that one!
What the Russians would call a “wet affair”
Only in this case it wasn't wet! lol
@ Britsih Kirchnerist AKA quisling, read the paragrapoh above. That is the sort of people you are backing. Shame on you. I bet you cry over palestinian rights - but don't give a flying f*** about those of your own people. You are a hypocrite living in a left wing dream world. If all people are equal, then the Falklanders deserve to be as free from Argentine domination/occupation as the Palestinians deserve an independent state (a goal I agree with, even if they need to learn that they can't just drive the jews into the sea).
“Peru needs the UK far more than it needs Argentina”. It reveals how ignorant is the people that does not know that actually was an Argentinean (Jose de San Martín) that brought freedom to Peru, from the Spaniard slavery. After 1814, there was a strong link, such as brotherhood among Arg and Peru.
We all know that polithics sucks and polithicians rank among the worst people worldwide. This decission has a clear politihical ground, and I don´t think Peruvians are stupid or weak, they just took the best line of solution they found.
Independently of that, it was John Lennon, a brit, that said “Imagine a world...” without guns, wars, and blah blah. But it was killed. Why not following his great british example instead of moving warships and bring death all over the world? I do not like CFK, but she was quite smart on creating a justified reason to conspire against that battleship docking in Peru.
Regarding the Falklands, the base problem here, Argentina should request a survey of opinion of the residents, that according to argentinean “20-yr property right”, they earned the right to be there. If they vote to be UK (even being argentinean I would do that!) so be it and end of the problem. Why UK does not offer Argentina a solution like this?
I agree with you,
We had relatives in this war, and it tore the family apart,
But very soon after the two countries slowly came together,
Always weary, as they are today, but unless something really bad happened, then the relationship will remain strong,
Argetina on the other hand, will just become another 2nd rate land,
A shame really as it could have been the leader of south America,
Now and in the future, [unless they change] they will just be one of the little puppies that
Eat the crumbs of the brazilin table .mm.
.
I mention this because the audience may think privatization is a way. It could be, only if you get a strong justice system to prevent bonds between state and companies, and all these 3rd world countries does not.
Argentina did a while ago. They all wished to remain British.
The islanders want to be British, this is a fact.
Some of the best run and socially sound countries in the world are the Nordic countries (not iceland) and they're all effectively free-market socialist. You cannot tell me that Nokia or any of their successes should be nationalised to the benefits of the masses. The key issue is that Nordic countries have a culture that supports their ideology, they're not very corrupt and have no highly visible mafia style organisations calling the shots. Argentina is the complete opposite, they rely heavily on the mafia and corruption is endemic.
Even Marx lived in the UK writing Communism to fit with Germanic cultural principles. Communism as an ideology has failed principally because folks in Asia, South America and Slavic countries with totally different cultures have tried to impose something that was written for the germanic value system onto their completely different set of values.
If argentina truly wanted social justice then it could do worse than abandon peronism, that was written by a fan of nazi germany, and ultimately find an ideology that suits it's underlying iberian-italian cultural roots.
Remember that nationalising companies empirically makes them massively inefficient and their products cost a lot compared to their competition on the global market. That doesn't bring in profit or taxes.
Falklands anniversary: Don’t lie to me, Argentina
.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/royalty/8454196/Prince-William-in-uniform-his-military-career-in-pictures.html
Don't lie to me Cameron: you not only give a sh¿t about people living in Malvinas, but you also pretend to show Argentinian Government as a menace, as a threatening monster while all Argentina is doing is claiming PEACEFULLY and with DIPLOMACY its wrights.
Argentina is doing POLITICS while the UK Government is doing ARMS, the few that an empire in decadence can do, WAR is the field they feel safe at, not the General Assembly at the UN, not a table of discussion.
They point at Argentina warning in a dishonest way, lying to its own british citizens, while the warrior hand is Cameron's one, doing business putting money on security industry in stead of using the money to british public hospitals or education.
so innocent, is she not .
pretty is she not
so clever is she not,
so admired is she not
so idolised is she not
so kind is she not,
[not] being the word. is she not .
By whom???????????
How could they say that is “part of a policy of isolating the islands internationally”, the trade was never affected or discussed, but clearly moving battleships over the South Atlantic has a reason. Why they not discuss that?
And it is not only again Britain,all imported products nowadays in Argentina have difficulties, reason by which some german companies, as BMW companies already left.
I was accused @97 I am peronista. How could anybody honest and with common sense be that? The country, has been smashed always when peronistas took power.It was actually Peron who bad spent the assets earned during the 2nd world war. Peronismo is not an ideology, but a fan group or sort of religion: poverty follows it expecting a better life and wealthy guys use it as a way to gain power, just like the Christianism status quo in middle age (peasants and priests/lords).
And it is a complete lie State owned companies are inefficient, look at Petrobras, look at Statoil (state) taking over Norsk Hydro (private). The larges company of the world is actually state owned (Saudi Aramco). They have a great role in redistribution of wealth, as they do offer less juicy salaries, but employ much more people.
Corruption is a problem down south but well, are not changing rules all the time in the north? Why US disasembled Rockefeller empire using the antitrust law, and did not make the same with Gates´s MS.
Hellooo! welcome to real world. Humans are basically corrupts. ALL. And this is not new, it was the reason why GOD fired us out from Paradise (read between lines please). So when humans do not find a way, they twist rules in order to achieve what they want. Example? Look how Deustche Bank is dodging FED rules these days!
The world population is about 6 billion people. I would imagine that CFK and the Argentine are unknown to the bulk of the world's population. Until I started reading MercoPress I had never heard of her. The only thing the UK population know about Argentina is football, the tango, gauchos and a 30 year old war in the Falklands. Argentina is not a subject of conservation with the general public. The only comments I have heard from people I know has been “are they at it again ?” and “are we going to have to sort them out again ! ”
one of these days somebody else will sort UK out, as well if you continue behaving as cretins. You receive what you get. It looks britons already forgot the many decades of fear after Adolf threat, hahaha. In this case, peace, and not guns, is the right path.
Falklands issue was fueled by an illegal Argentinean goivernment, those guys, inlcuding ex-president Galtieri are today in jail. This is a good proof Argentina regrets that action, but this nothing to do with a true diplomatic way of solving these things. Nobody will deny britons have invaded many places in the world and stealed lots of cultural treasures. Go to the London Museum and u will see the best of Parthenon there. And Greece is a EU partner!! You sort them out as well!
If we want a better worl we should start respecting other rights and not by sending an army, but a peace mission.
Exactly to the point. You respect the Falklander's rights and we could be friends.
My remark was not that “we will have to sort them out again” but the people I have spoken to here think that this is prelude to another invasion and they think that they may have to do it all over again. Your lot always seem to start it..
As to the Elgin marbles, they were bought from the Ottomans who were in charge at that time. If you look at Greece's history you will see that Briton probably did more than any other country to help them with their struggle for independence. I think that the Elgin marbles should be returned to Greece and that they will be returned one day. Also, we have ”sorted out Greece in the EU. Britain is a net contributor to the budget so some of our money has gone into their pockets.
#108
The UK respects Argentinas sovereignty and wishes you no harm, however, the Falklands are not part of Argentina and as you say truth and justice will prevail.
According to the Argentinean's who post here, I live in the most criminal country that has ever existed. We are responsible for all the worlds evils.
We abolished the slave trade whilst other SA Countries were quite happy to continue, I presume that was a mistake on our part . I assume that we were also responsible for the Mongol invasion of Europe, we should have let Hitler have his way and take over the continent then ethnically cleanse it. Britain was offered a deal by Hitler to join forces with him. With his army and our navy we would have been invincible but we said no and held out at great risk until help came to defeat him. I presume Argentina was cheering him on and then granting asylum to some pretty nasty people when the war was over.
We could go on selectively quoting truths and predjudices about each others countries and all it does is raise the temperature.
Before you crow about HMS Montrose not visiting Peru, read what the Peruvian President has said about the incident.
“an illegal Argentinean government”
Which had overwhelming public support for the invasion of the Falkland. The occupation of which is still a popular priority for the Argy government today. So exactly what has changed.
“best of Parthenon there”
If you mean the Elgin Marbles, they were purchased completely legally, to prevent them from being destroyed, this much is not disputed by the Greeks.
“we should start respecting other rights”
The islanders right to self determination would be a good start for you.
That “public support” you mention was obtained from manipulation of media: militars took over all radios and broadcast companies, so information was not real. My father was tech manager at a TV company! After they left, we all found out about the 30,000 people killed. Much more than at Falklands epìsode. No one in Arg. talk about occupation today! The discussion is mainly for a share in the natural resources of the shelf that again, as in many other historical cases, was taken unilaterally by UK. This why UK needs to keep a militar presence down in the south. Not very difficult to understand, eh? They sent the rig, and they sent the vessel and the “prince”, hahahaha. As we say down in the south, it is like UK is fingering gaucho´s a...!
UK bought that front piece of the Parthenon or it was a “forced acquisition”? a couple of greeks I talked with were not quite happy for that! Come on, pirats became famous in UK. Some them were even “Sir”. In many cases, those acquisitions were taking the advantage of a legal void, like there are many now protected argentinian pieces (archeological and paleontological) distributed worldwide due to that void. Like taking a candy out from a baby. This does not mean something is ethical or not.
The Islanders have a democratic government, with a mandate to express the Islanders wishes.
Argentina’s share of the resources is everything that is in undisputed Argentinean waters. The British only claim what is in British territory, and do not ask for anything in Argentinean territory.
Historically when the British first arrived in the S Atlantic/ Antarctic they were uninhabited, unexplored and unclaimed regions.
The British had their first settlement in the S. Atlantic when Argentina was still the Governorate of the River Plate, part of ther Vice Royalty of Peru and extending 150 mile south of BA.
What was unilaterally taken was the land you now call Argentina, from the Indians, this is in your own history books (Conquest of the Desert).
A strong defensive posture by the British is necessary to protect British territories in the S Atlantic. Argentina would do the same if Britain was threatening to invade Patagonia.
The Greeks said they met the economic criteria for entry into the Euro currency. The rest is history.
The English made a large, and very profitable industry of relieving the Spanish of the ill gotten gains they had robbed from various parts of the world, this is true.
History is a different place to here and now, what was considered ethical back then, may not be considered ethical now. Except in Argentina which is now behaving like a colonial power, about 100 years after everyone else has stopped.
Falklands/Malvinas were first colonized by french (calling them Malouines), and they stablished a whale station with permanent people accepting the Argentinean soverignty. Britons kick them out by the force and planted English flag during the own Arg government of Rosas in c. 1826. Independence was in 1810 that the viceroy was sent back to Spain. Not even the original name was respected.
The islands as well as all patagonia were claimed territories as it is well shown in the original maps of the country. As an expmple of “proper” behaviour, in 1876 when Welsh people settled in Patagonia (within the area occupied by indians, so without any administrative control as the desert campaign was c.10 years later), they asked permision to Arg government, as ethics and diplomacy demand . So, even when Chubut river valley has today a strong Welsh flavour, they never claimed that land for UK. This is the difference with English. This is the difference between colonization and invasion.
At Malouines (original name) there was an invasion, but it was also not a formal claim placed in time by President Rosas who left power in 1852. This makes the situation doubtful even when the land was taken by the force. So today is the right of the residents, not of the government that does not necessarily express the particular wish of all the people there.
A great writer once wrote that “violence is the last resource of the incompetent”. Moving the army to the south shows how incompetent is British government to deal with this issue.
The name “Falklands” was first used in 1690, when the British landed on the Islands.
When the French arrived in 1654, a year before the British colony, and called them “Malouines” the Islands were already British Territory.
The Spanish bought the illegal claim from the French, the British always rejected the Spanish claim, threatening a war when the Spanish tried to take the Islands by force, they were returned and compensation paid.
All this long before Argentina ever existed. Never mind trying to do what the French and Spanish had failed to do before them, take the Islands from the British.
Here you can read the real history, the British Governments letter to the UN
The United Kingdom is clear about both the historical and legal position on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. No civilian population was expelled from the Falkland Islands on 3 January 1833. An Argentine military garrison had been sent to the Falkland Islands three months earlier in an attempt to impose Argentine sovereignty over British sovereign territory. The United Kingdom immediately
protested and later expelled the Argentine military garrison on 3 January 1833. The civilian population, who had previously sought and received British permission to reside on the Islands, were encouraged to remain. The majority voluntarily chose to do so. In 1833, the territorial borders of the Republic of Argentina did not include the geographical southern half of its present form, nor any territory in the Falkland
Islands, Antarctica, or South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. The land which now forms the Argentine province of Tierra del Fuego, of which the Republic of Argentina purportedly claims the Falkland Islands forms a part, did not itself form part of the Republic of Argentina until approximately half a century after 1833,
by which time the current Falkland Islands people had raised two
generations on the Islands. British sovereignty over the Falkland Islands dates back to 1765
Correct & very well put.
But don't expect the Argentines to believe it, even though it can be checked.
Correction, - “When the French arrived in 1764”
@117 lsolde
I think many Argentines, and many more S Americans in general do believe in the Islanders rights to self determination, if not in any British rights to the Islands.
For those who don’t, for now, they just need to know another side of the argument exists, which can and will be put when required.
The “game on” bit, even they can figure out for themselves.
In the historical records it is written “The Isles of Falkland belong to Grat Britain by Right of fisrt discovery”, which is not true as the first including them in a map was Sebald de Weert, a Dutch explorer in the 1600. This is why in old maps they are called Sebald islands. 90 yrs later were the English John Strong reached these Sebald islands and called the “channel” not the island as Falkland Channel but did not make a colony. The first attempt of a permanent colony was done by French in 1764 but the Spaniarsds fired them in 1966, so France accepted sovereignity of Spaniards who created an administrative government of Malvinas. At the same time british used the opportiunity to settle, but they were expelled later by Spaniards, and there is an historical agreement there. However, the Spanish colony was abandoned after the independence wars and they were inhabited from 1811 to 1820. Since 1820 there was an argentine settlement, with Vernet in charge in order to control all pirats hunting whales in the south Atlantic. The Puerto Louis was attacked aftre that by US war ship in one occasion (UK natural allied) and then in 1633, the HMS Clio took the place by the force.
It was an invasion. Period. As britons tried to invade Buenos Aires in 1806 and 1807. They were unlucky.
It is interesting to note, UK negated citizenship to the kelpers before 1980. Now UK is interested in the oil... I am sure now they grant Kelpers UK citizenship! A convenient truth
As I said, UK got no legal rights on the islands, but we all should respect the islanders wish as they are the true residents.
The British claim the first confirmed discovery of the Island in 1592, confirmed because they went back in 1593 and mapped the north coast of the islands. Previous sightings may or may not have been the Falkland Islands as they were never confirmed.
The British claim the first recorded landing on the Islands in 1690.
The French sold their colony and illegal claim to the Spanish in 1766 because they realised the British knew they were there, and would soon find them and kick them out. The French even had to tell the Spanish where the Islands were located, the Spanish did not know.
This is not an argument, all British document relating to the Islands dating back to 1592, are in the British National Archive or the House of Commons (Parliament) library, with copies of the diplomatic documents, such as Letters Patent, also in the national archives of several other countries,
The British can prove beyond all doubt, that their version of events is correct, and that the Argentinean version is not – Fact.
How many times have I read here about the small scale British operations of 1806/7, in the river Plate area described as “invasions”, and attempts to found a British colony in the river Plate.
Despite the fact that they were very small scale, part of the Napoleonic wars and Argentina (even according to Argentinean history) did not even exist then, they were still “Invasions of Argentina”.
This is calling a canoe a Battleship, and saying they are the same because they both float, well so do ducks.
The Argentineans I know, and other S Americans I have met, almost all agree on the Islanders rights to self determination, but not on any British rights to the Islands.
This we can live with.
The attitude of the CFK government we cannot, this has to be opposed.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17549388
My King's share of the vote was as great as my Queen's =)
Malvinas vs Falklands: Negotiations with the U.N.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vys78sGB7Y
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