Serious Uruguay/Argentina clash over the long delayed dredging of a River Plate canal
Uruguay called on Argentina to begin the price bidding process for the delayed dredging of a River Plate canal and revealed it was already monitoring the Uruguayan side of a joint commission responsible for deciding on the final contract and which has come under suspicion of corruption.
“It is with great concern that we see essential interests of Uruguay seriously affected from the moment in which a decision postpones in time the compliance with a timetable for the deep-dredging of the Martin Garcia canal”, points out a letter from the Uruguayan Foreign Minister Luis Almagro to his Argentine peer Hector Timerman.
With the purpose of “ensuring the greatest guarantee and transparency” Uruguay has requested “as soon as possible the instrumentation of a bidding process for the maintenance of the Martin Garcia canal, given the impossibility to comply with the timetable to put out to international tender the contract conditions for the deep dredging of the canal”, adds the letter.
Uruguay also requests the “approval and exposure to public opinion of the minutes of the CARP (River Plate Administrative Commission) since the new Uruguayan delegation took office”.
The incident, the latest of a long list of frustrations to which Uruguay has been forced by Argentina stems from the rivalry between the ports of Buenos Aires and Nueva Palmira in Uruguay.
Two River Plate main canals keep the two ports open to trade and freight: Mitre which leads to Buenos Aires and Martin Garcia to Nueva Palmira that has become Uruguay’s main terminal for grains, oilseeds, minerals and pulp.
However Buenos Aires port interests, and by extension the Argentine government, are not pleased with having an efficient competitive terminal in the area and have consistently found excuses to torpedo the proper maintenance and deep dredging of Martin Garcia, since under the River Plate agreement the water ways are jointly managed on a consensus basis.
Uruguayan president Jose Mujica has diligently complied with all Argentine requests given his good chemistry with Cristina Fernandez, (and in spite of strong criticism at home) but this last incident seems to have cracked any patience left.
The Dutch company currently in charge of the maintenance dredging for both canals, as has been for the last twenty years, wanted its contract extended and apparently offered generous ‘donations’ to both delegations of CARP. The Uruguayan side walked out of the meeting and reported the facts to the ministry, what happened in the Argentine side is anybody’s guess but the Uruguayan media reported the bribe attempt and the sum: a million US dollars.
Furious because of the allegations in the Uruguayan press Minister Timerman wrote on Monday a letter to Almagro postponing the bidding process until the whole incident is cleared and called for a joint audit in the next 24 hours.
However Almagro replied stating the need to get along with the bidding process, revealing that Uruguay has been closely monitoring the whole process since March and will have a final report at the maximum in sixty days. It also invited Argentina to make public all the minutes from the Argentine side regarding discussions at the CARP meetings.
To emphasize Uruguay’s position Almagro met on Tuesday with representatives from all Uruguayan parties with parliamentary representation to explain how negotiations have evolved and ask for support.
The Uruguayan opposition gave their full support to the Uruguayan minister, the CARP delegation as well as their honesty and transparency, and said “enough is enough”.
“We are fed up with Argentina’s dirty tricks and delays, so we are proposing the Uruguayan government to undertake the dredging on its own”, said Senator Jorge Larrañaga from the main opposition party.
Furthermore Larrañaga anticipated that a tax disclosure and information exchange agreement recently reached with Argentina which needs legislative approval, “will remain frozen until Argentina abides by the terms of the months-long discussion refereed to the Martin Garcia canal and which should have seen the bidding process decided at the end of May”
Uruguay’s intention is to have the canal dredged to 34 feet from the current 32.
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Looks like time is running out for you.
seems that Argentina is trying everything to hamper the much needed dredging as a “payback” for not having a share of the bribe. What a poor excuse of a country it is.
For bribes of Of US$ 1 million to be paid by RioVia something is not right
“The Argentines are a mob of thieves, from the first to the last.”
Oh dear, the oh-so-obvious argies. Argies want trade only on their terms. So they upset Brazil. Argies say that they want to identify remains of their war dead. And who believes them given they couldn't be bothered to issue their troops with dog tags. But they “demand” and “insist” that they should be allowed to go to the Islands, conduct forensic etc tests and the bury.... what? Remote-controlled devices? Able to stick out an antenna and monitor British forces' electronics in order to interfere with them at some later time? Explosives? Saboteurs? Not difficult to stick a guy in a body bag with a couple of oxygen cylinders and a light layer of soil over the top. Argies want their own “port” to get the lion's share of trade. So they delay, and delay, and delay getting a contract for the dredging of the channel to their competitor's port.
Are argies capable of EVER doing anything honestly?
Advice for Uruguay. Get on and dredge the channel yourselves. Then send half the bill to argieland. In the meantime, seize the whole area in lieu of the unpaid bill.
A flotilla of small Uruguayan boats scooping sand from the Martin Garcia canal and then depositing it in the Mitre while doing a bad job of whistling to the stars.
l know the answer, why did l even bother to ask the question?
Think, l invite you to put Argentina's case on this one.
Think?
Thiiiiink?
Wherefore thou art, Thinkus horrobilus maximus?
♥
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/ChannelsonRiverPlate.PNG
I assume that the flow of the river makes dredging a channel is limited to specific routes - unfortunately some of which goes through Argentine territorial waters. It's clearly a scam to prevent Uruguay being able to compete.
Is anyone surprised about the bribe? If you don't pay every level of gov't to do business in Arg you will fail. Why do you think it costs 7X more to build a road than it does in the USA!
May 16th, 2012 - 01:04 pm
I think you'll find that old Pepe is a lot tougher than you think. He is a great believer in SA unity and has been trying to keep this alive against all odds. This latest Argentine “crime” is probably the straw that breaks the camel's back, similar to the Brazilian offensive over protectionism.
We'll see in the next few days, but I really think Pepe will strike Kretina where it hurts.
I chuckle every time one of these K trolls brings it up because they act like no one knows history OR CURRENT EVENTS. If you think Chile will ever get along with Bolivia, or Colombia with Venezuela you are insane.
May 16th, 2012 - 01:49 pm
Absolutely right. I know I'm not a typical Argentine, but in general we really don't like our neighbours and they don't like us. There is no way SA will ever find unity, this was Perón's big mistake, he always thought he could make the US of SA and didn't take into account that all south Americans are “ME Firsters”.
I still think Pepe will thump it to Kretina over the Martín García Channel.
Toby and Guzz don't believe me but Uruguay and Brazil are in talks with USA on an FTA which means they will leave MercoSur. These treaties take a long time to work out but I think Uruguay will be pretty quick since they almost did it a few years ago and there is support in US Senate to get it done.
When stupid TImmerman boarded our military jet it was a jhuge mistake and the USA is going to do everything they can to stick it to CFK. Getting Uruguay an FTA would hurt her pride a lot.
May 16th, 2012 - 02:22 pm
I hope the FTA comes off, andASAP. Anything that puts a brake on Kretina is a plus for Argentina. The big problem here is that there is no real opposition to the mad woman, the only real force that could have done something is the UCR and they have proved themselves utter wimps. Maybe if Aguad could get together with Julio Cobos and make some sort of agreement with Macri there would be somebody to vote for, but I'm afraidit probably wont come to anything as the major part of the electorate has gone to far to the left.
I'll help you. You are a frikn moron, illiterate, monolingual, and a brit.
Martin Garcia Island is an exclave. Why do you think Argentina forced Uruguay to cede it? So it could de facto control the River Plate through the channels!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Garcia_Island
Why do you think Argentina forced Bolivia to cede part of the Antofagasta puna? Control of part of the major mineral resources there that now are just beginning to be exploited in Jujuy, Salta, and Catamarca provinces!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_border_dispute
Why do you think Argentina took Formosa, Chaco, Misiones from Paraguay? To grab part of the great South American fresh water Acquifer!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaran%C3%AD_Aquifer
Why do you think Argentina scrambled for the Pampa from the indians, and then Patagonia and got 85% of it? Territorial expansion (the country nearly doubled in size with the War of the Desert and the Patagonian annexation)
And got half of Tierra del Fuego to boot to achieve some control over the Piedra Buena Straight.
Why do you think Argentina bought from Brazil to have 80% of Iguazu Falls instead of 50%, when Brazil was dirt poor in the 1900s?
Imagine Argentina without the mineral resources of the northwest, without a part of the Acquifer, without the oil fields in Patagonia, without control of the Rio de la Plata, without most of Iguazu Falls...
Expansionism works.
May 16th, 2012 - 04:05 pm
Yes it does to an extent, but not in the Falklands!!
You never know if you didn't try.
The Antarctic Peninsula is our goal now. With Global Warming, it could be a new agricultural region shortly.
Even with all of the natural resources you are heading there anyway.
Peronism has ruined any chance of Argentina succeeding.
Tell me Brit is there anything about the European or UK economy worth imitating? Have you read the news just today?
The lights are flickering on the Titanic dear, and the UK is a capsized lifeboat way to close to the ship and can't get away (too tied to it). As a good Brit, such a seafaring culture, you know what happens when the big ship sinks, and you are too near...
@25
I agree Peronism is a joke, but the people that get hurt by it are those that voted for it, the poor and the “middle class” that work for the government.
The farmers, the real middle class (the one has own businesses, stores, a skilled trade, or a degree; plus the upper class and the entertainment class), may be hurt by any recession but nowhere near as those solely dependent on the government. And as soon as the economy turns so do they.
It is the 25% chronically poor and the 15-20% “working” class which are beholden to the labor unions that get perpetually screwed. Well deserved.
But remember, if there is a recession it would be the first one in 10 years... is it really that shocking? Your country has had two full recessions in that time, one of them severe borderline depression, and may head to a third soon.
Can't brag too much buddy.
May 16th, 2012 - 04:19 pm
As things are, and will be in the near future, I think being as high on the list as Paraguay is actually pretty damn good.
I love the irony in your posts (a sharp incongruity or discordance that goes beyond the simple and evident intention of words or actions)
Britain didn't default in 1975 because it was bailed out by the IMF to the tune of 2.8 billion 1975 pounds, about 30 billion in todays US dollars.
The economy isn't so great in the UK at the moment. The very high level it was running at wasn't sustainable and there's a readjustment going on and for sure it will take years to balance out.
HOWEVER when a society considers minimal growth and 4% inflation as very bad and the choice is between taking only one holiday in Europe this year instead of 2 or waiting another year before buying a
new $30 000 car or delaying on buying that 2nd home in Spain then we can see that whats happening in Argentina now is far worse than what the UK is going through.
What's “happening” in Argentina is something about 83% of the population on this planet would love to go through, from most of Mexico through central America, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, the vast majority of Brazil north of Sao Paulo, even the poor in Chile; a significant portion of the Caribbean, the entirety of Africa, all of Central Asia, the vast majority of SE Asia except microstate like Singapore, the vast majority of China, all of the Asian Subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), the greater part of the Arab world an Magreb, and yes, even to this day quite some countries in Eastern Europe, as well a many Russians and Ucranians, and quite a few Pacific Islanders... between buying electronics in Chile or Miami, travelling to Brazil or vacationing in country, buying a car to beat inflation or try to renovate the house...
4/5 of this planet would love to make those choices.
Ever thought of it like that????
Anyway we were comparing Argentina with the UK were we not?
What makes you think any of those poor people want to be poor in Argentina? That doesn't make any sense. There is a lot more opportunity to better your life in other countries.
BTW how long do you think the peso will be under $6...a week or two?
The final payment of the load of 1945 from the US was made in 2006 - so yes we do repay out debts.
Although a loan of 2.8 billion was made available to the UK the full amount was never drawn as it was not needed.
At the end of 2001 Argentina defaulted on debts approaching US$132 billion.
Argentina is still in default of $7billion debts.
Argentina is the only G20 member not to submit to annual IMF “Article IV” reviews. Scrutiny of its public accounts could make it squirm – inflation and other data have become discredited over the past three years amid widespread suspicion the government fudges the figures to conceal price rises that are more than double the officially acknowledged rate (Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2012)
Whatever wealth you have has not been created in the last 5 years since you have been in recession, and the recovery has been so feeble is not even worth mentioning specially since it is only idle growth based on recouping lost ground, not genuine growth to new levels.
@37
Argentina, unlike Europe, UK, Japan, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, Russia, Turkey, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, and the USA via China, and Greece/Portugal/Iceland/Ireland today (notice there are “northern” europeans in that recent list), did not get a “bailout” to avoid a default when those countries were in crisis.
The rest of the world did not default on debts in their crises because they were bailed out, simple as that. Otherwise they would have since the market speculation would have succeeded.
Yankeeboy, you are desperately grasping at straws and engaging in Occam's razor.
I could tell you very few argies would want to live in the USA, how do you disprove it?
If we look at raw numbers, as you like to point out, the USA and Europe are better off than Argentina. But so it is it compared to all those places I mentione and you know it. Sorry.
We are all of topic on this thread “Serious Uruguay/Argentina clash over the long delayed dredging of a River Plate canal”
And I was talking about how argie expansionism allows us now to control the greater usable part of the Rio de la Plata. It was, as usual, the brits and yankees that then came and divagated the topic, by bringing “argie natural resources and economic performance”, from the expansionism debate which I brought up to explain how it is Argentina has an exclave in Uruguayan territory which prevents dredging (since the exclave is a NATURE PRESERVE).
Argentina is only abiding by treaties. Are you saying we should violate it?
The impression I get from you is that the UK is in an apocalyptic or free fall state. That its as corrupt and unstable as Argentina.
Its not.
As opposed to who's growth?yours. Argentina did not get a bail out. Oh, priceless, really priceless! Who in their right mind was going to bail you out, no one would lend you the money. The other countries? yes, but you? no and you hold that up as an example, of what? exactly what? that your a shit risk? The greatest default ever and you twist it to make you look good. Shit forget CFK, you should be running your country.
but look on the bright side the UK did help you gain a government without dictatorship for 25 years,that is until now.
“I'll help you. You are a frikn moron, illiterate, monolingual, and a brit.”
Hey mate, lay off the national insults, it helps no one and your posts are generally better quality than that.
You posts are often educational to me, and always informative. At times it seems only you, Elaine, Yankeeboy, Joe and a few others make rational posts.
“I could tell you very few argies would want to live in the USA, how do you disprove it?”
You disprove it by looking at immigration statistics.
I would say your statement is not true due to the estimated 250K illegal Rgs currently living in Miami alone!
She only has to ask,
We are sure the British government could come up with an agreement to dredge the canal , [as @4suggested]
In return for basing rights,
Can you imaging the slap in the face, for CFK to look across the canal and see the royal navy sitting on the other side in Uruguay
Waters, oh the embarrassment,
She might even jump in and drown.
250k is a number from 2002 in the height of the crisis. It is well known that Argentines have “vanished” from Miami. I was reading how during the crisis the “argentine steakhouse” boom in Miami started, and all of them run by argies down to the waterboy. Now you hardly find any Argentine working in argentine steakhouses. Where they go? In LaNacion it said how moving companies from Miami to Argentina were making a killing shipping cars, furniture and the like back to BA from argentines getting out of the USA.
And last but not least, to undo your little pathetic attempt at spin “25ok in Miami alone” is a lovely attempt at dissembling on your part. You should be ashamed to try to play into the ignorance of others here (since the majority here has no clue about the demographics here).
“In Miami alone” is like saying “in the Milky Way galaxy, there are 6 billion humans on Earth ALONE”... LOL
Unlike the other latin americans which you can find everywhere, are no other argie colonies in the USA outside Miami (and possibly NYC but much smaller). Outside those two places it is rare you will ever run into one.
LOL.
Do you abide by the 1850 treaty?
I hope the Dutch Government has taken notice.
Well here is a treaty that Argentina respects. You do know that part of the treaty that ceded Martin Garcia to Argentina stated it was to be a nature preserve, right?
Generally speaking there is no dredging in nature preserves.....
Looks like there were a few left in 2010...FYI there are 250K maybe more currently. Unless ICE is after them they don't go back.
www.goinglocaltravel.com/2010/07/03/exploring-miamis-little-buenos-aires/
BTW RGs have infested Houston too...
Argentines getting out of the USA. Question, why did they, the 250k, no small number, go there in the first place?
First you say, “It is well known Argentines have vanished from miami.”
Then you say, “Unlike other latin Americans which you can find anywhere, are no Argie colonies (You used the ”C“ word” you should wash your mouth out with soap) in the USA, outside of Miami...
Now is it me? or are you contradicting yourself?
You want to bring an article about a World Cup situation?
In the World Cup, I easily found throngs of South Koreans, Germans, Italians, Chileans, etc, etc, in Mendoza. You would think there were hundreds of thousands of them. It means nothing except it is the World Cup (a real global sporting event). And yes, I have pictures to prove it.
Americans are infesting Mendoza, specially Tupungato, your point?
@52
You do know how many millions and millions of English left England? and left all European countries. That's no small number, in fact I would be embarrassed till eternity 50 million Europeans left... why?
And you are going to compare 800k argentines that emigrated since the 1970s?? (and about 70k returned in the last few years).
Where is the contradiction? From what I gather, outside Miami, New York and maybe Orlando there are no such things as “argie communities”. But you can find Honduran, Chilean, Brazilian, Mexican, Colombians ALL OVER THE USA in great numbers.
I take it then that you are an Argentinian of indiginous descent? and not a descendant of one of those Europeans. I understand that up to 47% of Argentinians can claim Italian ancestry. Millions of English did not leave England. However millions of English, Scots, Welsh and Irish did leave Britian over a 200 year period. Canadians often brag that there are more Scots in Canada, than in Scotland. If you wish to know why they emigrated? ask the descendants of your own settlers. I suspect the reasons will be the same.
As for contradiction, you say that the Argentinians have vanished from Miami, then you say there is a colony (there's that word again) of them there. That in my book, is a contradiction.
We are talking about an infestation of RGs in the USA, are you telling me that there are 730K still here since they started coming in the 70s?
Gosh I hope not! ICE should send them home...
Sorry guys to keep on returning to what this thread was about in the first place, but does anyone else get a sense that KFC has been rumbled over this one?
I said 800K people left ARGENTNA. To anywhere in the world, but that doesn't say how many returned. Since I at least try to be fair, I don't hide new information that may be to YOUR advantage. I don't need to hide things.
800k leaving Argentina vs 9 million arrivals (7 million europeans, 2million recent immigrants from neighboring countries and Latin America, and Asia and Africa).
What does that tell you oy oy oy? Since you put such high stock on raw data... are you going to deny Argentina is full of other South Americans and in recent years Chinese, South Koreans, and even black Africans??
No, these are not retirees you fool, plenty of young people and middle-age single couples.
Yes, everyone is better than Argentina. We are the worst at everything in every category and best at being last.
What credibility can you anti-argie people have really.
But alas your opinion and we must respect your opinion .
Before I go, early start for work tomorow. Apologies, misread your post at 53. However the reason why so many Brits, not English, emmigrated, is for the exact same reason as any other emmigrant to whatever counrty. A better life than the one they are living “contemporary to the times in which they are living it.”
I think I read that over a 200-hundred period the moderm UK lost 13 million to other lands, but if you consider that the UK in 1760 was only 6 million that is a huge drain.
Our population should at least compare to Japan (80m) had colonialism never happened.
Now who was I writing this to and for what reason lol! Time for bed soon I think...
@23 Not a chance. Which do you want to be? Bombs-r-us or missiles-r-us?
@26 Don't know about the euro-heap. Britain is so far beyond argieland, you're, quite properly, in the crapper.
@30 How nice to know that argieland has ALWAYS defaulted.
@33 Good luck with that then. But there'll be no food aid.
@38 Dreamin', just dreamin'. Looking forward to the day we don't hear from you anymore because you can't afford your power bills.
@40 Because, you brain-dead turd, there is ANOTHER way. That will end your control!
@47 Shall we assume that toby-girl is high on meth and not really itself? Has its boy(?)friend shagged it recently?
@50 That was then. Things have changed. Get used to it.
@57 Tells me argieland is a good place for crims..........and queers.
@59 Loads more than you, toad.
uruguaybr.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/martin-garcia-canal-conflict-argentina-agrees-to-advance-tender-process-for-canal-dredging/
Only recently have the river ports become active again, mostly due to soybean (a “weed” according to CFK) and paper pulp (NK arranged for bogus environmentalists to block an int'l bridge for years as a protest because foreign investors deemed Uruguay less corrupt and set up their mill here.)
My suggestion to get the Argentines out of the picture altogether is a railway crossing Uruguay from the Nueva Palmira region to the deep water port of La Paloma, which is on Uruguay's Atlantic coast and just about as far away as Uruguay can get from Argentina. Perhaps the Chinese would build it and take part payment in soy?
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