Falklands’ referendum a “parody”: like asking the Argentines “if they want to remain Argentine”
Argentine Defence minister Arturo Puricelli strongly criticized the announced referendum the Falkland Islands government is scheduled to hold next March which he described as a ‘parody’ and “entirely lacking imagination and creativity”.
“If you ask the English if they want to remain English most surely they are going to say yes. I think it is a referendum lacking imagination and creativity, I would have expected more from the English”, said Minister Puricelli during the celebration of the founding anniversary of the Argentine Aircraft Manufacturing in Cordoba.
“I really think that the intelligence of the English should have made them come up with something different and not this parody of a referendum, which undoubtedly will be saying yes. It’s the same if I ask the Argentines if they want to continue as Argentines, almost certainly we will have a 100% win”.
The referendum on the political status of the Falklands has been announced by the Legislative Assembly for next March. Although the exact date has yet to be determined.
The purpose of the 2013 referendum was announced last June 12 and wants to clearly show the international community that the Falklands population, which has been living for generations in the Islands have the right to self determination and decide who is going to rule them, said MLA Summers quoted in the Buenos Aires press.
“It’s very clear, we want the international community to understand how the Islanders think”, he added.
Regarding the question at the heart of the referendum, “it still has to be formulated but the elected Legislative Assembly is working on that”, and it will be published “as soon as it has been defined”.
MLA Summers interviewed by the Buenos Aires media said the results would be announced the same evening of the vote, since the recount won’t take much time,
Last 12 June, two days before the thirtieth anniversary of Liberation Day, (14, June 1982) when the invading Argentine forces surrendered to the British Task Force, spokesperson for the Legislative Assembly, MLA Gabin Short announced the Falklands were going to hold a referendum on the status of the Islands in 2013.
“There is no doubt that the people of the Falklands wish for the Islands to remain a self-governing Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom and we certainly have no desire to be ruled by the Government in Buenos Aires, a fact that is immediately obvious to anyone who has visited the Islands and heard our views”, said MLA Short at the time.
However “we are aware that not everyone is able to come to these beautiful Islands and to see this reality for themselves. And the Argentine Government deploys misleading rhetoric that wrongly implies that we have no strong views or even that we are being held hostage by the UK military. This is simply absurd”.
He added that the Falklands want to convey a strong message to the outside world that expresses “the views of the Falklands’ people in a clear, democratic and incontestable way, and so we have decided, with the full support of the British Government, to hold a referendum on the Falkland Islands to eliminate any possible doubt about our wishes”.
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288 comments Feed
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as an argentinian myself i can only tell arguello: be carefull what you wish for.
i would vote to remain argentinian, but i have serious doubts about the rest of us...hahaha
London is having a hard time to explain to South America and the world why they still have a colony in 2012, 14000 km away and in Argentinean soil.
Have your selfdetermination ....in Britain.
I am sure that will work out fine...
#7 So why do so many people do exactly that and chose to be Argentinian in one of the world's leading immigrant nations?
Here at Mercopress several people have explained over and over why the FALKLAND ISLANDS are not a colony. If you keep saying otherwise, you will only confirm beyond any reasonable doubt that you are either an idiot (if you believe the fascist Argentinian propaganda) or a lying scoundrel (if you don't). Besides, the louder you Malvinistas yell, the more intensely we Brazilians despise your vile and pathetic country. There is no solidarity in South America.
“so she can continue to lead her people so marvelously”
Could you list the biggest of CFK's accomplishments that lead you to conclude that she is leading her people so marvelously? I don't hear about these, I only hear plenty of criticism. Tell me what her positive achievments have been as president.
If almost 1/3 of the Brits in Malvinas believed a few years ago that they are a colony(rightfully so) is because Malvinas is a relic of British colonialism.
“On the other hand 27.5% thought we were still a Colony, 10% believed us to be a Dependent Territory and 5% thought we were a County. Not a bad result.”
en.mercopress.com/2002/09/30/how-much-do-islanders-know-about-falklands
Putridjelly got that right at least.... asking Falklanders if they want to remain Falklanders is like asking the Argentines if they want to remain Argentinians.
It also shows the ignorance of this particular individual that he can't differentiate between the English and the British.
One would expect a better knowledge of History,Geography and politics from a senior Minister in the Argentine government-the 'English'????
Maybe a local junior school teacher could explain to Mister Puricelli that England has been part of the United Kingdom for over 300 years,that the people of the UK are BRITISH,that the majority in the Falklands are FALKLAND islanders and BRITISH by dint of their chosen free assciation with the UK. If he still doesn't get it then perhaps he the UK Defence Minister where to describe him as 'Spanish',he would possibly cotton on to the analogy? No?
How about this for a referendum question?
“Q1 - Do you wish to remain a Non-Self Governing Territory under the Administration of the British Government as provided for by the Charter of the United Nations?”
Puricelli is absolutely right. To have a really imaginative and creative democracy, one must buy votes and the ballot boxes must be rigged, as demonstrated by the history of Argentina.
If Argentina were to assume sovereignity over the islands, they would become a TRUE colony, as the inhabitants are British who do not want to become governed by Argentina.
No Argentine would choose another nationality, that would be a stupid question too.
“If almost 1/3 of the Brits in Malvinas believed a few years ago” (September 2002).
During the corralón, wasn't it?
The islanders were so disturbed by the suffering of the Argentine people, that their minds were muffled.
Now where was Argentina in 1765 ??
“and the world”?????????????????
Now you are just lying, which given that you are an RG is of no surprise.
Hows your worm farm doing?
I have no doubt that it will clearly show what the Falklanders desire - that they wish to remain British and to maintain their links with the UK.
It will also show that if Argentina was to gain control of the Islands, that they would be invaders and occupiers, ruling against the wishes of the locals.
Good, and we don't want to be ruled by Britain. So could you please tell the FI government to stop complaining that we don't want to cooperate in the South Atlantic with the islands or the UK, we like to keep our sovereignty to ourselves and not handed over to the Falklands or London. Thank you.
Why do you spineless cowards continue to cry and howl but decide to do nothing? We are constantly waiting for something more creative and imaginative from the Argies but all we ever get is their “chip on the shoulder”.
But then again, Mr Purcelli (nice native Amerindian name that, JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA) this referendum is to show the world what the Falklanders want, and will show the Argentine government up for what it is. An aggressive imperialistic coloniser and hypocrites.
The world will know that the Falkland Islanders have a voice and the right to determine their own future and status, no matter what Argentina or indeed the UK wants.
The funny thing the defense minister does is question the intelligence of the English whilst in the same breath not be able to use the correct name of the nation which represents the Falkland's.
Let me spell it out to you, you absolute simpleton, the Falkland's are represented by the British not the English.
It seems its too difficult of a concept for his poor little brain to grasp. No wonder these these Argentine's in power are a laughing stock.
and most probable it will show they wish to be a BOT for the foreseeable future
You know if they weren't protected by the might of the British military Argentina would be there in 5 minutes declaring it their country, you know CFK is all about political stunts to cover up for the countries economic collapse.
It's a shame it has to be this way but Argentina doesn't do reason or respect.
Well learned from the British, I may add.
If a similar referendum were carried out in Argentina asking : “ Do you want to remain independent or become the 51st state of the USA ?” At least 45% of the country would vote for Union with the US . FACT .
Who really wants to be part of a country were people are literally in the northern provinces of Chaco and Santiago del Estero while the president's personal fortune grows by 3000% ?
But the next stage could be a turning point; the wording of the question.
Puricelli has just stated Argentinas reaction to the expected wording and voting options ‘a parody and entirely lacking imagination and creativity’.
Maybe its time for the islanders to prove them wrong?
en.mercopress.com/2012/08/31/faklands-referendum-planned-for-march-south-american-observers-to-be-invited
I think you are confusing Argentina with the UK...
Oh wait, you already are the 51st state.
FACT.
hahahahahaha, take that you pathetic wanker.
(no absolutely not even 5% of the people would vote to become part of another country, keep dreaming and tossing completely unsubstantiated crap)
On the other hand my commentary above is known the world over. Sucks to be you I guess.
No- he would embrace it with both hands.
The man is an idiot & a liar too.
Rest easy, Argentines, we have no desire to join you. Are you estatic now, Tobias?
“Good, and we don't want to be ruled by Britain. So could you please tell the FI government to stop complaining that we don't want to cooperate in the South Atlantic with the islands or the UK, we like to keep our sovereignty to ourselves and not handed over to the Falklands or London. Thank you.”
Not one Brit here has supported this motion. Telling.
Surely the RG's should be over the moon and saying something like “finally we will see that all of the RG's being held hostage really want to be part of RG Land”.
Utter hypocrisy by the RG's.
An observation though. Perhaps the question shouldn't include a description of the Islands as a “self-governing” as this would provide critics with an open opportunity to rubbish the result as well as the initiative - within the context of the UN you understand.
How about:
As an adult with Falkland Islander status, do you want to retain the constitutional relationship of the Falkland Islands with Britain as defined in the 2008 Constitution?
The Argentine government refers to 'England' as this was the chosen 'enemy' by Juan Peron. To create nationalism you need a common enemy and 'The English' was the target. In part they were an easy target because they were the most successful immigrants and considered the elite. It is easy to whip up some hatred amongst the poor if one targets the wealthy. So, like all the other lies, CFKC's government must perpetuate the enemy as 'The English'. It makes them look stupid but they don't seem bothered by that.
I don't think that would be pointless, I think alot of people would highlight how dangerous they think CFK has become and that they would rather be part of a democratic state.
The whole Argentine government is living on a lie, based around their saviour Gaucho, who in fact killed his own men in an illegal settlement on Uk land. The UK removed the illegal settlement just as they had to do in 1982.
The people of the Falklands wish to remain a UK overseas territory, they are not forced to, and after the hundreds of years settled there, its their choice. If they wanted independence, they could have it, much like some of the other countries, but they should not be forced into any decision that is not their own, and certainly not one dictatated to by an agressive neighbour.
Perhaps a step towards peace would be stopping brainwashing children at school with false histories breeding a new generation of hate, when in fact peace is a better way forward.
If CFK had stuck to a peaceful settlement, they could be sharing in the oil revenues that will come from the Falklands, including the docking and other revenue from the ships, but due to CFK's stance on flagged vessels, they will miss out on that too.
Shame, perhaps its time to change the leader, maybe she wants a helicopter flight over the South Atlantic ;) or a trip to the Belgrano
Purelysilly is already losing the argument before he started, and he seems unable to distinguish between English people wanting to be English and Falkland Islanders wishing to remain British.
@46 you have a good point...
I can't remember where I read it but one commentator observed that the one thing that Argentina fears is the Falkanders being recognised as a “people” as this pretty much blows their arguments out of the water. Forget about 1833 etc (even though we are sure of our position on this) - it is the here and now where the battle for hearts and minds should be taken
I would say that they are definitely rattled as they are calling the referendum a “parody” before they know the question that is being put to the electorate. Very odd!
You only need to contemplate the Argentine claim for the Falklands to understand his appreciation for imagination and creativity.
“Were you in BA last night when KFC's speech on all terrestial channels was drowned out by the cacerolazo ?”
Cacerolazo en repudio a la Cadena Nacional - 3 de septiembre de 2012
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGCwwn69-ak
Cacerolazo contra el abuso de la Cadena Nacional (Video 2) - 3 de septiembre 2012
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT4N6PK3u6w
Cacerolazo Barrio Recoleta 3 de Septiembre 2012
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bugGkCFX4Sw
It is like asking the Patagonians if they would like to remain Argentine!
And he is a 'defence' minister ... good luck with that!!!
This just adds to his string of ludicrous statements on the Falklands (including recently the only reason the Falklands are still British is because of the UK defence commitment).
The question has not yet been set. How can it then be criticised as lacking imagination ? A referendum has the purpose of finding out in an ordered fashion what the people think on a particular question. Why does that need imagination ?
Sr Puricelli has lots of imaginative ideas; unfortunately most of them are pure fantasy. The man is bonkers.
.....and yet he looks so friendly and personable..........
On the other hand Argentina is made up of many nationalities and really do not have any right to claim they are argintinian because unlike us who settled a barron land your lot killed inocent indigenous people and took their land for your own.
Dress it up any way you want but we will have the vote next year to confirm to the world we are a people that have rights to choose our own destiny.
I also believe that if given a democratic choice Minister Puricelli your people would surprise you with such a vote but because they are trapped in a dictator regime they fear for their lives if they speak out against their governmet.
My personal prediction is that 98% of people on the Islands able to vote will firmly wish to remain British the other 2 % will say no because they have Argentine conections because just like the good neighbours we are we allow Argentines to come and live and work among us.
Well said but don't forget. To 'recover' something, you would first need to have possessed it. I accept that Argentina did technically 'possess' the islands for a short time in 1982 but it was an illegal occupation and they were ultimately removed. If it is a 'recovery' from the 1982 situation that you refer to we had best keep our ears to the ground.
Wow!!! with an outlook like that, it's a wonder the Islanders haven't climbed over each other, wanting to become Argentinian!!!
This man is a joke, a childish sideshow, a clown. But then again, tell us something that we don't already know.......
Interessting!
This sentence says quite alot about Mr Purcielli and argentinian colleagues in government.
It's a FULL LINE confession, admitting that straight forward things (like asking the population what they want) and evident facts he considers not valid points. But cheating, lying and betraying, like Argentina is doing since all recent years would be “creative” and “imaginative” and assumingly a positive thing.
Wow... simply WOW!
What does he think a referendum is? It a simple and international reconised way of asserting the right to self determination. What imagination is he refering to or does he just not udnerstand that the Falklads Islanders and the UK government do not need to use cheap parlour tricks like the Argentine government to decieve the world and its own people.
This is the same idiot who thinks Hong Kong provides a prescendece on the future of the islands whilst compeltly ignroing the hisotircal and geo-politcal situation.
A referendum should not be in anyway imaginative or creative it should be a simple decleration of the wishes of the people.
If, on the other hand he refersto the UK having to resort to a referendum as uncreative and lacking imagination then I would say it is only one part of a muti pronged case which includes developing links with Chile (who continue to provide practical support to the Islanders). just becuase we dont screama nd shout about it dosent mean it isnt happening. The UK government unlike the Argentine one doesnt need to make a circus out of absoutly everything in order to rouse feelings of patritsm.
As Antonia Bandaras said in a famous movie about one Argentine “Oh what a circus, oh what a show”
“Amongst a number of candidates this man Puricelli is probably the biggest idiot in the Argentine Government”
Laughing boy Timmerman gets my vote.
I think he should be voted “Man most likely too” 2012
'It is like asking the Patagonians if they would like to remain Argentine!
And he is a 'defence' minister ... good luck with that!!!'
.... or asking a man if he wants to stay male.
Some questions are more or less rhetorical.
Variations on the theme:
... asking the UK if they want their country to become a Muslim country,
... or asking a Shia majority if they wish to have a Sunni governance.
Re. 'good luck with that!!!'
Being Defence Minister in Argentina is - progressively - to defend the government from the people.
I wish the people more luck than the government.
tell me trolls what are you going to say when invited multi nation independant observers call the democratic referendum legitmate,free and fair, it kind of blows your soverignty claim & your “Hostage” lie clean out of the water somewhat :)))) , i call it the Belgrano effect (both equally devastating to the Argentine cause)
such negativity and flipency towards the game changing Falklands democratic referendum proves one thing the planned vote has majorly ruffled Tard feathers and is already having an effect, leaving the selective(demodratic/dictatorship) Argentine republic reeling.
It is not in Argentinas interest for that referendum to go ahead, watch this space, their cogs are working overtime.
@16 this is the same man who stated a couple of weeks back that if it wasnt for the british military they would have the Falklands, other words they would have already ilegally invaded and forced their will on its population yet again ,
en.mercopress.com/2012/08/13/argentina-shows-off-jet-model-and-calls-on-uk-to-dialogue-on-falklands-sovereignty
@49 Argentinas “Dear leader” has the attitude of All or nothing, and nothing is what they ended up with, All the more for The Falklands who have it ALL :)))))
any charm argentina has applied to the falklands since 1982 has been shown for what it is, a simple ploy to influence them, however the discovery of oil and lack of patience got the better of Argentina and their true colors have been surfaced for a whle. They should never again be trusted !!!
looking at the feeble response from argtards they too know their game is up,
chuckle,chuckle
SELF-DETERMINATION, REFERENDUM, ITS ALL GOOD!!!
Perhaps they have finally twigged that the UN can't ignore the Falklanders once the result is in.
Monty Python could not have put it better.
Check this out: www.democraticunderground.com/1002555582
Intresting experiment: Take each of the main imigration groups to Argentina (Spain, Italy, Germany) in that order and combine the information. Remind you of anyone??
So,what, we should ask the penguins?!
That kinda leaves Argentina up shit creek without paddle, unless they admit the truth that they are still a dictatorship. :)))) which is it Argtards??
You do not possess the intelectual threshhold to have a discussion with me.
My threshhold is the IQ of a toad.
You ramble from thing to thing without any coherent argument, your discoursive into “cacerolazos” had nothing to do with the point I was arguing with you. You are about as well-oriented as a camel in the rainforest.
What ever the final outcome Britain will comply with our wishes.
The outcome will not stop Argentina but will let the whole world know what we want and that is what matters for us as Islanders.
That includes the Falklanders, who mercilessly commited genocide, and successful genocide, against an animal species, instead of co-existing with it, and then claiming the islands were “deserted”. That lack of any integrity is puke inducing.
The whole planet is still reeling from Brutish, Germs, Spannels, Itaflons, Frenchies, and the rest committing mass perfidy and pusillanimously abandoning ship in mass.
Enjoy that true history folks.
If you want to talk about just land and not people then I would gently remind you of a plaque laid by the British back in 1776 laying claim to that piece of land
Well it is not OK really, if I cared about I guess I would like to see alll those places nuked, but I don't care, and I for one am fine with people deciding what they want to be. Next.
You can't commit “genocide” against non-humans, that would be extermination. Genocide is what the proto Argies did to the natives.
“Brutish, Germs, Spannels, Itaflons, Frenchies” - IOW the average Argentine.
Argentines are not European, keep lying to yourself that's all you got left to insult us.
“You can't commit “genocide” against non-humans, that would be extermination. Genocide is what the proto Argies did to the natives.”
Funniest quote of the month.
Including the vast majority of Argentines! I assume therefore all the Argentines from European derscent will ever be leaving Argentina or handing over power to the pre-columbian indians and then requesting their permission to stay.
No of course not becuase the borders of nations where locked in 1945 when the UN was formed. The C24 was then set up to allow those people still living under collonial occupiers to excersie their right to self dtermination. As no Argentine is currently living under collinisation (except possibly, a very few who live on Islands who as legal residents of the Islands will have voting rights in the referendum) Argentina can not demand the hand over of islands on a historical claim which pre-dates 1945. i.e. UN laws are not retrespective beyond 1945 as no nation could of foreseen the implimentation of the UN and its associated laws. TThe very fact that the islands are on the C24 list means the population in 1945 is reconised as a people and therefore have the right to self dtermination in the same way as every other terriotory on that list.
Puricelli states the result is a foregone concluion and I agree, however had Argentina taken a friendly non agressive attitude to the islands since 1945 (and therefore the implimentation of the UK) who knows what the results of the referendum would be. To hand over sovernigity and therefore subject the ppopulation to foreign adminisatrtaion aginst their will is the very defifntion of collonilsim and even if you do not agree with self determination it is not in the intrests of the population whcih has been stated as a condition of talks by every UN resolution and therefore the current Argentine tactic can never be succesful.
who knows once this democratic referendum has concreted The Falklands recognized democratic right in 2013 the latams witch hunt could be focused on the Dutch Surinam and French Guiana.
An argentine Minister has admitted that the People of the Falklands Islands do not want to become Argentinians.
Therefore any seizure of the Falklands Islands, by any means, by anybody not the Falklands Islanders themselves, is colonialism ny definition.
Thank you Mr Argentinian Minister..
(what a numpti foo!)
“Argentines are not European, keep lying to yourself that's all you got left to insult us.”
Are you going to use your usual tactics are throwing out random comments without a shread of evidence to back yourself up? The majority of the population of Argentina are from European descent.
Please see the following links:
blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_people#cite_note-worldstatesmen_argentina-6
www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/31559-new-study-on-Argentinian-genetics
www.joshuaproject.net/countries.php?rog3=AR
www.worldstatesmen.org/Argentina.html
And that was the result of 5 minutes on google. These suggets the population of Argentine with European descent range from 65-86%.
LOL! Yeah right Argentinians originated from Mongolia. Argentina is probably the whitest (97% Euro descent) nation in the Americas regardless of your opinion on the matter T³.
Long Live Republic.
www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/fun-with-numerical-dates
First of Scotland would not become a reupublic as they have stated they would continue to keep the Queen as the head of state. Go reserch the difference between a Republic and a constituinal monachry please.
Secondly if Scotland decides to break away from the Union in a fair and open vote then so be it. Westeminster government has never stated that they would not allow a referendum on the subject only that the question posed should be fair. I.e. Alex Salmon's current questions “Do you agree with us, that Scotland should be an independent nation” is what is called a leading question as it divides the two possible answers into a posttive response and a negative response which has been shown to influence the way people vote, i.e. people are more likely to select the positive response. The Westminster govenment (which includes Scottish MPs) has argued that the questions should read “Do you want Scotland to be an independent nation” this questions does not attribute the same level of guilt on a voter.
I hope and think Scotland will vote for the Union but if not then they are free to leave and set up on their own (as long as the take a proportion of the sovernign debt which has been incurred as a part of Scotland being a part of the Union)
As usual you accuse the europeans of inflicting the ship's or black rat Rattus rattus on the world, but for your information Rattus r. comes from tropical Asia, not Europe.
The movement of shipping throughout the world has spread Rattus r., but under no circumstances can all the blame be laid on europeans, the Chinese and Japanese had a large part in the spread!!!!!
both are irrational muppets but one can count to ten.
Argentina's rights over the FI/MI have been the same since the british forces took control of them in 1833.
So, I would say that british rights over the islands are a result of imagination and creativity:
1) Discovery: At the very beginning british said that the islands were british due to discovery. It has been prooved that they did not discovered the islands.
2) Occupation: The first settlers were french. The british established on West F / Gran Malvina after the french established in East F / I. Soledad.
3) Prescription: Some used to say that the islands became british by prescription of continuos occupation since 1833.
4) Self Determination: Now they found this argument, but it is not so strong because of the full british status of the islanders. They were just “second hand” citizens of the empire that became after 1982 in full british citizens. They can't be “jugde and judged”.
So as you can see, the arguments claimed by Britain have been changing all the time. That shows the weakness of its claims. Sorry.
if Scottish were to opt for independence - a very logical choice that will a)convert them in the 6th economy of the world and b)reintegrate with Europe that Cameron's government betrayed - , why should they retain a middle ages institution like monarchy absolutely useless and expensive ?
Why do you guys do it then?
1) Tha claim of first discovery was made in an age when much was kept secret although the British and Dutch tended to publish their own findings. But then who did first discover the Falklands - why, probably the Portuguese. After all, they told Magellan where he could find his Streight.
2) The French got there first, the British second and the Spanish third. The French relinquished their holding on East Falkland - which pushed the British into top spot.
3) Prescription works fine - after all, the Spanish, who maintained their claim until 1863, knew we were there but never once complained. They even came and saluted our flag in 1863.
Argentina was never in the game. And you should be sorry!
www.scribd.com/doc/103755318/Falklands-War-The-First-400-Years-PDF
why are you so scared of the democratic rights of the Falklanders Argentina is a supposed democracy or is reality more like a Dictocracy???, or is it because you know that when they have passed a democratic referendum it will be recognized by the entire Democratic world once and for all? and any further attacks on the falklands will be an attack on democracy itself, i dont even think the Argtards will go FULL-tard on that one. :)
dont be scared of democracy embrace it then we can all be friends, sort of.
Sorry! But...... SELF-DETERMINATION RULES!!! :)))))
Despite your repeated use of the term, Argentina has no 'rights' over the Falklands. All you have is a moral claim based on an expulsion that never happened, and a legal claim based on an inheritance from Spain that was never left to you. And now you would deny the islanders a voice in their own future and call it decolonization.
I can't think of any other country in the world that would turn anything so flimsy and irrational into an issue of the national manhood.
@83
You still haven't grasped that you are the inheritors, and in many cases the direct descendants, of the most rapacious and genocidal branch of European colonialism there was? I would say those of us who had the good grace to stay home in Europe probably have a good case for looking down our nose at you.
I'm not the inheritor or direct descendant of anything. How many times do I need to repeat it. I know myself, you people do't know myself. Tough luck, my word beats yours there.
Second, I would agree that those that stayed behind would “innocent”, except for that small detail called wealth sequestration. European nations for 400 pillaged the riches of the other continents, either directly (taking it way), indirectly (via punitive taxations, and 2nd class status to the colonists in order to maximize profits), or pro-actively (shipping free labor across the seas). All that money is seen today in your, I will admit, beautiful palaces that one sees in the brochures of London, Paris, Madrid...
... or how about all the great art that was stolen and STILL LIES THIEVED in the museums of England, France, Italy and Germany....
So no, you still can't look down at my nose. There is nothing redeeming about Europe or European in the last 450 years. Accept it, feel humiliated, and move on.
All your descendents then half wit
Sorry, I still don't get it. If you're not the “inheritor or the direct descendant of anything”, then either you are full blood Amerindian, or you dropped fully formed from the sky? Some kind of virgin birth perhaps?
Hate to break it to you, but I owe you no explanations or personal revelations.
I can understand why you wouldn't want to, it gives you a much better platform for your pompous hypocrisy.
comical Ali has nothing on this clown.
excellent link - they should make that compulsory reading in Argentina.
I'm willing, as ever, to entertain the hypothesis but at least insofar as your europhobia is concerned, it surely depends on the Amerindian/virgin birth hypothesis.
Very succinctly put - you've crystallised the argument very elegantly
I take issue with you on this point:
“I would say those of us who had the good grace to stay home in Europe probably have a good case for looking down our nose at you.”
I am the descended from the “most rapacious genocidal branch of European colonialism there was”, but I fail to see why that means you can feel superior about that. You also will be descended from one of the rapacious genocidal invasions of your own homeland.
PS
I agree with you on the issue of self-determination for FI.
Ask a thief if he wants to keep his booty.
LOL.
“The Argies know any support they had will begin to drop away on the back of this result.”
After the referendum Argentina will have the support of those countries, which in 1982 declared UK to be the agressor even though all the world could see that Argentina attacked.
I didnt see the links in my previous response which quite clearly states my evidence.
“it will always be on Argentine land, never forget!!!”
You mean “it will always be Danish land, never forget!!!”.
Greenland is part of Denmark and the first Europeans who set foot on the Americas came from Greenland, so there!
Condorito, you are of course entirely right, sometimes I just cannot resist winding up the TTT.
“That includes the Falklanders, who mercilessly commited genocide, and successful genocide, against an animal species ...”
El genocidio es un delito internacional que comprende cualquiera de los actos perpetrados con la intención de destruir, total o parcialmente, a un grupo nacional, étnico, racial o religioso como tal.
Genocide is “the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”
( efchr.mcgill.ca/WhatIsGenocide_en.php & T. Marcus Funk: “Victims' Rights and Advocacy at the International Criminal Court”. Oxford University Press, Oxford, England, 2010. ISBN 0-19-973747-9 www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Law/PublicInternationalLaw/InternationalCriminalandHumanita/?view=usa&ci=9780199737475 )
“I know myself, you people do't [sic] know myself. Tough luck, my word beats yours there.”
I will adapt it and say it to Argentines....
“I know my islands, you people do't [sic] know my islands. Tough luck, my word beats yours there.”
When it comes to Marcos, IM, malen, Thinks, TTT's comments regarding my home, I know best as I live here.
Thanks TTT.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EJeM6ifRbA
Im quite surprised That argentina who still live in the dark ages hasnt implemented the medieval “primae noctis” on the Falklands population before now, maybe thats one for the future?
However back to the link,it is a extremely good link, Hats off Mr Lorton,
SELF-DETERMINATION
List of senior government members-Argentina
Note all the native Amerindian names.
President Cristina Kirchner holds the office since December 10, 2007. As of December 10, 2011, her cabinet consists of the following Ministers:
Chief of the Cabinet of Ministers: Juan Manuel Abal Medina
Minister of the Interior: Florencio Randazzo
Minister of Foreign Relations (mostly known as the Chancellor): Héctor Timerman
Minister of Defense: Arturo Puricelli
Minister of Economy: Hernan Lorenzino
Minister of Justice and Human Rights: Julio Alak
Minister of Security: Nilda Garré
Minister of Labor, Employment and Social Security: Carlos Tomada
Minister of Education: Alberto Sileoni
Minister of Science, Technology and Innovative Production: Lino Barañao
Minister of Health: Juan Luis Manzur
Minister of Social Development: Alicia Kirchner
Minister of Federal Planning and Public Utilities: Julio de Vido
Minister of Industry: Débora Giorgi
Minister of Agriculture: Norberto Yahuar
Minister of Tourism: Carlos Enrique Meyer
It appears comparing Argentine Defence minister Arturo Puricelli to Sesame Streets 'Count Von Count' has caused great offence to many.
To compare a brainless Muppet, that struggles to count to ten, with 'Count Von Count' is wrong and I apologise to all the Sesame Street fans reading this.
be realistic...you should understand that the “” governing “” job(!) is the game of once of from Aristocracy ... nowadays of from the Rich People (maybe of from some organizations )... not of from ordinary people level stacks in all countries.
-------
123
Thanks ..i ate somethings instead of waiting your advice of restaurants,meals..........did you remember -- didn't you ?
Watch this space, he’s going to get really upset before this is over.
That is exactly what a referendum is.
Well, he is Italian after all.
I like most Italians that I met during the three year one month there, one month back consultancy project I ran for Pirelli cables.
But yes, the southern Italians are very emotional until you give them a verbal slap and remind them what they had agreed to do before the last month was out and had failed to do anything of it.
Then they tried to blame me for setting (agreed by them) too high a workload for them. But we got there in the end.
Apart from the final sentence in the last paragraph, which other nation does it remind you of? :o)
That's why, in the unlikely event of a similar referendum in what is now called “Argentina”, only the indigenous people's should be allowed to vote. You genocidal colonists really should keep your heads bowed.
Self Determination for Malvinenses?
Self-determination right can be understood from a historical point of view. It´s linked with the struggle for independence of those peoples that has been invaded, colonized, enslaved and subjugated by a foreing power.
What we see in Malvinas is that in 1833 the UK by the use of force expelled the argentine people from the islands. The attacked and invaded people here is the argentine.
The UN has this fact so clear that it has never ever mentioned not even the “wishes” of the islanders. There is no single Resolution since the 1960´s regarding the Malvinas question mentioning the wishes of the islanders. Neverming self-determination.
The UN has not even referred to the islanders with the legal conception of “people”. The islanders has always been referred to by the UN as “inhabitants”. Never “people”.
The UN always mentioned the “interest” and well being. Absolutly no mention to their “wishes”. Neverming self-determination.
This is more than clear in 2065 and 3160 Resolutions.
This referendum certainly is a parody.
if the Rgs in a theoretical situation ever gained control of the islands, would they have to go on the list of territories to be de-colonised at the UN.
The truth told by a Malvinense...
Seld-determination? HA HA HA HA HA
Big British LIE! HA HA AHA
a person or animal that is a permanent resident of a particular place or region , take note of the word PERMANENT, so when the UN talk of the inhabitants of the Falklands they mean the PEOPLE, not fookin difficult is it, stop clutching at straws by twisting peoples words. Self determination IS thier best interest and well being you dipstick, it's not yours hence you're dripping like a leaking tap, take your blinkers off you arse, we can all twist words to suit our own meaning, and finally we kicked mutineers / prisoners off OUR island who killed the governer and raped his wife, sound familiar?
At the risk of repeating another thread, but since I've systematically fialed to get an answer to this from any Malvinista, can you indctae ny evidence that the 1833 expulsion ever took place. by “evidence” I mean something like a list of name of this expelled, an account of the expulsion by one of the victims themselves, or an account of the expulsion by any of the other actors around at the time. Any of Pinedo, Onslow, Vernet, even Rivero, or any there contemporaneous witness would do.
It's rather important, because if you can't show any expulsion, your entire argument fails.
But that's less of a disaster than it looks. The UN has never supported the ARgentine claim to the Falklands. It has only ever supported “dialogue”. The UN supporting dialogue is like the Mothers' Union supporting motherhood.
Congratulation! You scored a zero on your history exam. The Argentine Government representatives were expelled in 1833 - not the population. Those that wanted to leave were given the opportunity. The only resident “Argentinians” removed from the islands at gunpoint were Rivero's gang after their killing spree. It is amusing that the Argentine great hero of the Malvinas was the one man mostly responsible for the practical establishment of British sovereignty over the islands.
“Respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.”
www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter1.shtml
“All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”.
Even if uninhabited, The Falkland Islands are thousands of miles from Buenos Aires and hundreds of miles across the ocean, and by no reasonable definition any part of the region presently called 'Argentina'.
If the Falkland Islanders want to be called Argentinean; fair enough. If the Falkland Islanders want to be called 'British'; fair enough. If the Falkland Islanders want to be called 'independent'; fair enough. Any of these results would be acceptable by the the British government and the British people. Therein lies the difference between the democratic United Kingdom and the sorry excuse for a democracy called 'Argentina'.
What are you going to do about it? Let me guess, shag all!
Wake us up when you have grown a spine.
all the falklands population are doing is practising their human rights, a master stroke in anybodies book of “master strokes”, announcing a free and fair,democratic referendum witnessed by the democratic world and beyond any doubt that not even argentina can question without drawing attention to their own blatant disregard for basic the democratic values of others, something that will not go down to great in the world of Democracy!
class act, well done Falklands you have argentina by the short and curlys feel free to yank as much as you like, they cannot do shit!
SELF-DETERMINATION :)))) the mother of all slap in the faces.
OK, I'm repeating this, but this dumkopf doesn't understand that the Falkland Islanders born in the Islands cannot be born 8,000 miles away in England.
The Argentine government do not understand that if you are born in a country you are a people. I have never seen 'England' on a map of the Falkland Islands , but strangely enough I have seen the word Falkland Islands on a map of those same Islands.
So now Pure Silly thinks the Falkland Islands are called England. So much better than 'Bad Vines'
Using Argentine logic, St Malo is closer to England than the Falkland Islands are to the nearest point of Argentina.
St Malo is a British Saint.
St Malo is in Breton, one of the countries to possess a Celtic language, the others are in UK (except for the Isle of Man and Ireland).
Therefore St Malo is technically (according to Argentine logic), part of the UK, so the first settlement in 1764 from St Malo was British.
YPF/Gazprom energy company reached a strategic accord
seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2019064782_apltargentinarussiagas.html
www.youtube.com/watch?gl=BR&v=1oCqqn_uOiY
Yes, absolutely. I agree.
And if the Chagos Islanders get their home back, will you leave us in peace? Simple answer, yes or no?
Argentina wants nothing else but peace and it`s territory for its people and other peoples living on it. That includes pirat descendents in Malvinas.
Precisely. I thought not.
Self determination for the Chagossians but not Falkland Islanders, because....well no reason. Apart from the fact that you Argentines are different and special, and your idea about what might have happened in 1833 is more important than any notion of human rights. You make me feel a bit ill actually.
The imagination and creativity in Argentine referendums and elections is in counting the votes.
Just imagine what life would be like for the islanders under Argentine rule. No freedom, no democracy, no human rights.
That's funny - I don't recall that we are trying to rule any part of Argentina (The Falklands are not Argentine so don't go there), and in fact your country is becoming such a basket case because of CFK that I doubt that anybody in any other country would have designs on a takeover.
Well spotted about your lack of coopereation and reliability in international affairs - thats what the garrison is for, and thats why you will never get a UK govt to talk to you about the islands. Any negotiations would be worthless as you would tear up any agreements in short order.
Your neighbours are noticing this too.
Meanwhile - keep enjoying the fact that you don't, and never will, own the Falklands. LOL.
@Islas Malvinas. The UN would not support occupoation of the islands and cannot force a handover. We would argue (so would the islanders) that the FI best interest is served by being associated with the UK - a country with a better track record of looking after it's own people instead of wasting time tilting at windmills over previous failed attempts to steal other peoples land.
The rerendum simply shows that the locals do not want anything to do with you - any handover would be forced. It won't happen. No UK govt would want to do it (following 1982, still in living memory) and no UK govt would survive doing so.
Well said, shb.
And the Argentines know that they'll never get the Falklands, hence their frantic bleating.
Haven't they got enough land? They're not usefully using what they have.
And the oil is making them, really upset! ha
No need to imagine - kz camps, deportations, mock executions etc...
There is a good film about the islanders experiences from the last time the Argies came visiting.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFs7TXIQRag
Quite agree Isolde.
I cannot understand why the Argentines tear their hair out over a land the size of Northern Ireland while they have a huge country with no doubt more huge resources to discover.
It's like going to the doctor complaining of a cold after you have a had a heart attack.
“it will always be Danish land, never forget!!!”.
'Greenland is part of Denmark and the first Europeans who set foot on the Americas came from Greenland, so there!'
No, St John, these Greenland/Dane summer visitors were beaten off by the Inuits, Micmacs, Maliseets, Abenakis, and Algonquinians. They never returned.
The first non-Americans who set foot on the Americas were Mongolo-Siberians. Interestingly, they took only a couple of thousand years to walk to 'Argentina' and occupy it.
I don't know what they called themselves, but it was neither 'Americans' or 'Argentinians'.
Later, 'Europeans' took a quicker water-route ... but they used a flag, wrote down that they owned it, and called it Argentina.
So that's all right then.
Imagine if they had won, full control of shipping around cape horn, they could try to stop other nations getting to the antarctic peninsular, also airspace control, it would mean no shipping, aircraft or anything else in SW Atlantic, where would it all end? I am glad it is the way it is now for all mans sake.
An extremely good point - we know how avaricious they are when it comes to taking territory that doesn't belong to them.
They were humiliated in defeat and now the RG governement is sweating because without the Falklands it cannot deflect its population from the real issues affecting them, economic collapse, mega inflation, corruption..etc etc etc
'Being Defence Minister in Argentina is - progressively - to defend the government from the people'
This is a very interesting comment ... It made me smile, thank you :)
Me neither, in fact i'm glad i got my italian citizenship.
End of story. The Anglos don't give a fuck about self-determination.
So one nutter on the loose in Canada proves the Falklanders are wrong? But does this mean that a Lstin nutter on the loose in Mexico would prove them right?
And one nutter who acts means 100,000 non-nutters who think alike. Sorry, but it is clear Quebec independence will involve blood. Already has, even if it was one person, it's blood enough.
Another myth officially busted, anglo “respect” for election results or self-determination.
It's not that I think your spectacular generalizations are the product of a shallow or under-developed intellect, or even just simple laziness. Far be it from me to suggest any thing. It's just that I am continually amazed at the process by which you and your cultural cohorts have managed to escape the chimpanzee genome that afflicts the rest of the human race. I do wish you would elucidate
further. Surely you owe this gift to the world.
Nuff said.
So it was “the Anglos” - who else was in on the job? And how does it bolster the Argentine case for the Falklands?
The difference between me and anglos is that I apply self-determination across the board due to probity of principles , not when it is merely convenient for territorial conquest.
None of us of course would condone violence of any sort, but knowing your susceptibility to coarse common laughter, I would advise you not to turn up in person to call Irish, Welsh, Scots, Zimbabweans, Indians, Jamaicans, etc, etc, Anglos.
Interestingly there is now genetic and archaeological evidence that the first peoples to arrive and settle in the Americas were not from Siberia, they arrived later.
@Tobias
If Quebec does become independent it will be with little or no bloodshed, same as if Scotland chooses independence, no one will stand in there way.
Interesting to note that last time the Québécois lost the independence referendum by a narrow margin. Their leader said this was due to a recently arrived immigrant population (referring to Asians). Native Americans (the majority in the north of Quebec) must have pissed themselves laughing upon hearing this.
Where is the genetic and archaeological evidence?
There are sites in Chile were the human presence pre dates the supposed arrival of man via Siberia, but that might just mean that we came across from Siberia sooner.
As I understand it, European genetic markers have been found in Native North Americans (East coast), no surprise, except they were included 12,000 + years ago. Also the technological similarities of the Clovis point to NW Europe stone tools of similar age.
Skeletal remains found in sites in S America again 12,000 + years old, far more closely resemble Australian/ S Pacific peoples than Amerindians.
I am quoting from memory here, but it should be easy enough to check in the right place.
It is an interesting subject.
I have always thought that given the excellent sea faring skills of the Pacific island peoples, who could re-trace their routes across 1000s of kms of ocean between tiny islands, that hitting a continent that runs from the north pole to the south pole should have been quite easy.
Still, I understand more evidence is required to change the Clovis first theory.
Well if you believe the 'out of Africa' theory then everyone in the world originated from Africa.
But it is interesting how developed inventive means of spreading around the globe.
Regarding the story though, Argentina better get used to this. Once the vote has been cast no one at the UN will even give them the time of day regarding the Falklands.
They'll just have to fall back to crying on the shoulders of their 'friends'; Venezula, Cuba, Syria, Iran er... that's it. :0D
There won't be any blood drawn for Quebec independence, frankly there are many of us who would like to see them go. Unfortunately Quebec has been a part of Canada since 1867 and as much as we all admire their Gallic laziness and defend their right to smoke in church, quite a bit has been invested in the province and not just by Quebec taxpayers, they will have to leave some of it behind when they go or at the very least, pay for it. If any blood has been spilled since confederation the frogs drew it first!
Anyways you can't compare the situation, Great Britain would happily grant the Falkland independence, too bad they don't want it. Quebec joined Canada at confederation and they are free to leave. Argentines seem to think they should be involved in any negotiations for independence or self-determination, it has nothing to do with them.
Of course, but this would not be the first time established ideas of history were completely changed by new discoveries.
I agree an interesting subject, more so because of what is yet to be discovered.
@201 LEPRecon
Out of Africa, a few hundred individuals (allegedly) to Southern India, and spread everywhere else from there, including back to parts of Africa.
Makes you wonder if we actually ever own territory, or are just visiting!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
The difference between you and Anglos is that you are not Anglo.
You ought to recognise a tease, when you see one.
Besides, for some few years, there was a settlement in what today is called “l'Anse aux Meadows” in Newfoundland.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Anse_aux_Meadows
I was fortunate.
@195
If those groups are in Argentina (and some are), I will call them anglos. It is how we call them, nothing personal.
Anyway, Canada responded to self-determination with ruthless violence. I find it almost providential that every time a country talks smack about Argentina, something happens to put them to hyporitical shame :)
Es triste ser argentino... Actually I am figuring out about having my Italian citizenship but I also want to go to America and keep being and entrepreneur there. I gotta get my USA citizenship first. #complicated
What is a Dane like you doing in a place like this???
And why always so negative about Argentina???
Did any Argie “tissed på din sukkermad?”
I have been studying The Falkland dispute for a couple of years, and based on original documents I have come to the conclusion, that a neutral arbitration will almost certainly support the British claim, let's say odds 5 to 1.
I have lived several years in Argentina.
I like Argentinos (de las provincias) in general, the majority is amable y agradable.
Some porteños are OK, but from experience I dislike the majority of the porteños - same as los habitantes de las provincias do - because they are mostly sólo la fachada pero sin contenido (shallow) and imagine themselves superior to everybody else including all other Argentinos - complejo de inferioridad escondido?
If you read my posts, you'll se that I am only negative about clowns like Puricelli who calls a referendum “a parody that lacks creativity and imagination”, or when an Argentino is negative about others or when they post unresearched nonsense.
One nutter does not a conspiracy or wish to ignore democracy make.
Argentina applies double standards in this case.
You would support the referendum wholeheartedly if it was going to give a majority in favour of severing links with the UK and joining Argentina, would'nt you?.....
The last thing your country wants is for the people who are affected by your countrie's policy of aggression and occupation to have their say in the full view of the world's media.
It exposes you as what you are - nasty little land grabbers who don't give a damn about the people upon whom you would be forcing your rule. It would also open up Argentina's “selective” view of history and it's more bizarre claims in the UN (like the deployment of Trident subs) to greater scrutiny and ridicule.
”If those groups are in Argentina (and some are), I will call them anglos. It is how we call them, nothing personal.“
How would you like to be called 'Dago'?
- it's how we call them, nothing personal.
- and it would be very innocent:
Dago is short for Spanish ”Diego”. Diego is a Spanish male name derived originally from the Hebrew Yaʻăqōbh (Jacob) via the latin name Sanctus Iacobus to that of Sant Yago (Saint James the Greater), in later Spanish language changed into Santiago and San Diego. Diego as generic for “a Spaniard” is documented from around 1615. “Santiago el Mayor” is the patron saint of Spain.
lts what we are, and proud of it.
@212 St John,
Thank you for your accurate analysis of the ridiculous Argentine “claims” to the Falklands.
However, as you imply,Dago is insulting.
A psycho dressed in a bathrobe hardly represents the Canadian people, equally a petulant little boy posting using a Claro stick from his mother's house does not compromise all of Argentina. Anglo-envy is a painful malady!
“@ 178 GeoffWard2 re. 'it will always be Danish land, never forget!!!'.
You ought to recognise a tease, when you see one.
Besides, for some few years, there was a settlement in what today is called “l'Anse aux Meadows” in Newfoundland.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Anse_aux_Meadows”
Of course I see the tease, I frequently do it myself.
I happened to be reading around the topic when your posting came up.
Jared Diamond, a respected US anthropologist (and my 'hero'), tends to view the 'Meadows' as a short-lived recurrent summer settlement for winning timber - no timber in Greenland; exactly the opposite of the Wiki statement of it being an over-wintering settlement.
Irrespective, the Devonian Inuit and the Micmacs between them soon showed Eric and his small band that 'This Land is My Land'.
The Danes/Greenlanders retrenched in two main Greenland settlements and became out-competed/erradicated by the Devonian Inuit - who survived by hunting, whereas the 'Danes' died by focussed, as the climate shifted, on unsustainable agricultural/husbandry activities.
500 years later Columbus discovered America.
personally I don't care a whit what people call me, “Hijo de puta”? - their problem, not mine.
Argentina's claim to the Falkland Islands is not ridiculous, only based on insufficient research and a lack of critical examination of their own past.
All of Spanish America - present day Argentina included - belonged to Spain on, say, 24 May 1810.
24 May 1810 Spain was in dire straits, as the French occupation since 1808 had destroyed the Spanish administration. La 'Guerra de la Independencia Española' lasted until 1814.
People in 'Virreinato del Río de la Plata', among other territories, saw the opportunity and usurped the land from the rightful owner, the Spanish crown - not a gentlemanly act at a time when Spain was occupied and in a helpless condition, yet they lament that “Britain took the islands by force”.
It is interesting to notice, that Argentina cannot possibly claim 'uti possidetis juris' (as you possess under law) to the Falkland Islands, because:
1. the Spanish troops loyal to the crown stayed on the islands until 13 February 1811.
2. the islands belonged to Spain 'de juris' until 'Tratado de Reconocimiento, Paz y Amistad Firmado por la Confederación Argentina con S.M. la Reina de España' was signed in Madrid, 9 de Julio de 1859, which says “... de ambos Paises, han determinade celebrar un Tratado de reconocimiento, paz y amistad, fundado en principios de justicia y de mutua conveniencia”. The 29 April 1857 treaty 'Tratado de Paz y Amistad entre Su Majestad la Reina de las Españas, Doña Isabel Segunda, y el Presidente de la República Argentina', says only “... un Tratado de paz y amistad, fundado en principios de justicia y de mutua conveniencia” - no “reconocimiento”.
In that case Argentina would be able to claim the Falkland Islands only under 'uti possidetis, ita possideatis' = 'who owns by fact, owns by right', same as Britain can, but in Britain's case the 'by fact' claim is based on de facto possession for more than 179 years.
”Jared Diamond, a respected US anthropologist (and my 'hero'), tends to view the 'Meadows' as a short-lived recurrent summer settlement for winning timber - no timber in Greenland; exactly the opposite of the Wiki statement of it being an over-wintering settlement.”
Diamond's problem.
One of the buildings is a well used smithy, hardly something you would need for a short-lived summer settlement; you bring the axes, and other iron tools for a short stay.
Besides, we have no indication of this being Erik Raudr's settlement.
Some asians discovered the Americas about 15,000 years ago, the Norse from Greenland were the first Europeans to set feet in the continent around year 1000.
Columbus did not discover America any more than Charles Lindbergh was the first to fly over the atlantic, not even non-stop - 92 (nitetytwo) other persons, two non-stop, had overflown it before him, but not from the US.
(Alcock and Brown in the first non-stop heavier-than-air in 14-15 June 1919 (from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland), Portuguese Gago Coutinho and Artur de Sacadura Freire Cabral in four jumps over the South Atlantic from Lisbon to Recife, Brasil (many years ago I met an old man, who as a boy saw them land) and on to Rio de Janeiro in 1922).
@213
Do you realize you come off as cookoo, cookoo? I support the Falklanders in whatever decision they make. End of story.
”...Les Anglais se reveillent! Les Anglais se reveillent!...”
Tolerant, huh?
Seems reasonable to me... Argentinas big problem is the short life of their country (prior claims) and the fact that their “strongest” moral arguments cast their own country in a bad light.
------------------------------------------
“ Argentina applies double standards in this case.”
Argentina is a country it doesnt have standards, nor does Britain...its a big inanimate country.
Members of the Argentine Goverment however....
Is it fair to label all Argentines with the same? Crikey look at Tony Blair and his “Lets ake an excuse to invade Iraq just so that I can slide up Bush's backside a bit further”... and years later “God told me to do it!”
Personally I was against the whole thing, as were, probably, the majority of British citizens... but the government, once elected, no longer has to do what the public wants....we just get labelled by it.
---------
“I hate to break it to everyone, but NO ONE in Argentina knows what the word 'dago“ means. ”
Hate to break it to you but... you're wrong. I know at least 2 Argentines who know exactly what “dago” means.
Which highlights the problem of making vast sweeping statements for an entire population with no real moral or factual basis other than “I wish it was so!” as your foundation.
Which, when you get right down to it, probably isnt the ideal methodology for someone claiming to a truth-teller.
Ever read Heinlein's “Job”?
If not, I suggest you do.... then tell me what colour that house is on the hill outside .... ¬_¬
Yes. It's about as tolerant as attributing the crime of one nutter in a dressing gown to an ethnicity of your own invention that covers everybody from Antigua to Zimbabwe.
I am offering you a bet... go in the streets of any argie city and tell 100 people “hey dago”... at best what you will get is a “que??”. Facts.
We are far more aware of the Spaniard term “sudaka” than anything from any other European country.
@225
Dude give it up, anglo is just a social way of us of saying “english speaking/culture”... what's the big deal?
Don't you call anything south of Texas “hispanic”?? Brazilians, Haitians, Chileans, Peruvians... Incas, Black Hondurans, blond-blue eyed polish German brazilians, Fujimuri....
So what you are saying is that this is correct but our label in Argentina for you is not???
Both are correct because they are accepted in the societies where that label is used, the ones labelled by it have no say in that. sorry.
Iin my humble opinion, the issue here is self determination enshrined in the UN charter, I believe that this overrides the territorial claims of Argentina.
Anyone who has a counter perspective I would really like to them to post a reasoned argument based on international law and not just bash the British.
Dago with Gringo, somewhat less polite.
I was told the term Gringo was from the US Marines in Mexico city 1900 odd, singing as they ran “green grow the rushes oh”.
Can anyone confirm this?
I don't, as a matter of fact. You're trying to put words them in my mouth. I might use the term Latam or something, but I certainly don't see them as a homogenous bloc of evil-doing cultural enemies. Sorry to disappoint.
This is what happens when an outsider to this forum makes opinion, I'm proven right.
Argentina here is trashed to an extreme degree, and not just its government, everything about it, from culture, to language, to the women, to the history, to the food, to anything and everything. And not just limited to topics about the Falklands, anyone checking the Argentina section sees nasty, racist, vulgar comments whether the issue of the article is the Falklands or not.
This more than clearly proves that the people that claim they are only expressing themselves in such a fashion because of Argentina's obsession with the Falkands are lying. If they were telling the truth, you would only see them blasting the Argie gov in Falkland Island articles.
But you seem them everywhere insulting anything argie.
Im only here to counter fire with flame.
Please read 228 again without the hate setting in your brain switched on.
The poster is making the point about the BRITS being bashed!
BTW generalisations just show the poster to be somewhat juvenile. Not all Argentineans are Malvanistas. Not all Argentinean women look like TMBOA or the Industry Minister. Does TMBOA select them so they don't 'show' her up?
The AG women I see over here are both young and gorgeous or mature ladies with stunning 20 yo figures but have been sunbathing all their life and have suffered because of it. I cannot remember seeing anyone who looks like TMBOA, but I have only been in Uruguay for 16 months.
The AG history is of course what it is. Malvanistas make it worse with the whining and moaning about it is never their fault about the 'Conquest of the Desert' ha, ha, or the 30,000 chucked out of planes or murdered or the Junta invading the Falklands (there are STILL no Malvinas), making things difficult for Uruguay by breaking agreements over auto volumes, lying over the pulp mill ‘contamination, etc. etc.
Always remember that fighting fires with flame only works when there are sufficient fire-breaks, otherwise you risk serious injury.
“@228
This is what happens when an outsider to this forum makes opinion, I'm proven right.”
Who gave you special powers to judge who is an “outsider to the forum” or who is qualified to post??
Is Santiago Dave from Chile too even-minded and reasonable for you?
His opinion as a South American seems to undermine the propaganda that you keep spouting.
How inconvenient for you.
Better discredit him and label him as an “Outsider”, right??
“Argentina here is trashed to an extreme degree,” BOO fkin HOO,
newsflash, it swings and roundabouts, its 50/50 The UK and the falklands gets its share of abuse too, yet you dont mention that.
so dont start whinging like a f*kin baby about insults being one way, when the real reason is because you know you have lost the battle of The Falklands yet again.
if you cant take the heat f*koff out the kitchen, take your hurt National pride elsewhere ,whinging c*nt, sorry no sympathy Argentines started this sh*t The Falklands are finishing this themselves..... Suck it up, Argtards made this problem, save it for someone who gives a shit about Argentina and its feelings.
SELF-DETERMINATION & DEMOCRACY :))) You re welcome!!
www.clarin.com/opinion/Malvinas-beneficiosa-diplomacia-negativa_0_769123160.html
The vast majority of Argentines don't want any diplomacy (i.e. relations), with the UK. So I only agree in half with that. I've always said I don't like the current harrassing of the islands, but I also advocated in closing the British embassy in Argentina and escorting them out of the country, and ending formal relations.
I don't understand why you would want the British Embassy closed. Embassies also exist for expats, consular and other services. What is wrong with an English presence in BA, or an Argentine presence in London?
I am an argentinian and I don't like the rubbish bloody english people in my country.
Afuera de mi pais ingleses odiosos!
l've always understood that it was in the war of 1847 & the US soldiers were singing “green grow the grasses oh”.
But l could be wrong.
@231TTT,
Don't cry, Tobias.
Take it like a man.
We only bag Argentina because of their spurrious & ridiculous “claims” on the Falklands(oh and to get a reaction from you!).
Gringo:
According to wikipedia, which often has it right and quote a number of sources, it means/meant a foreigner who doesn't speak like the locals:
“The consensus among etymologists is that gringo is a variant of griego ‘Greek’ speech (”it's Greek to me”).“ ... ”Gringos is what, in Malaga, they call foreigners who have a certain type of accent that prevents them from speaking Castilian easily and naturally; and in Madrid they give the same name, in particular, to the Irish.“
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo#Etymology
”Según el etimólogo español Joan Corominas, “gringo” deriva de la palabra española griego, refiriéndose a un lenguaje que no se puede entender (cf. me suena a chino o inglés that's Greek to me)” ... Gringos llaman en Málaga a los extranjeros que tienen cierta especie de acento, que los priva de una locución fácil y natural Castellana; y en Madrid dan el mismo nombre con particularidad a los irlandeses.
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo#Etimolog.C3.ADa
So being a gringo isn't all bad then, for an anti-imperialist =)
Isolationism. Honestly, I'm reaching the point I think we should sever relations with all nations and close all their embassies.
www.falklandophilia.com/120459888
Ahhh, Sussie the cunt is back! I for one, was hoping you were dead!
243 Troll
Although you seem to hate the English so much you can't deny the English population that exists in your country. I know this because I went to a British school there for two years, Argentine boys with names like Duggan, Grant, Smith, Glass and Moore, I hope you aren't planning any type of Milosevic-like cleansing of your “anglo” population.
I hate all Europeans equally, it's just that here for obvious reasons anglos predominate.
I am a male so watch it.
I can hit you and make your head spin 100 times!
Spic courage, so frightening!
246 Troll
Europeans only? What about American Anglos?
All other Latins too. I want an isolationist nation. Thank you.
Come on, give me your full name, location and phone number. Don't run away from me rubbish bloody english man. Are you scare ?
Nobody takes the time to learn as much as you have and then sit alone in a tree, you've embraced the world and now you pretend to hate it, but then again this forum is for entertainment purposes only, you don't fool me!
250 Sussie US
You have to change syntax, grammar and attitude to convince people you are someone else you schizophrenic chud! Iwill give you my location when I need someone to wash my dishes or prepare some tamales, until then, fuck off!
Are you out of the psychiatric ward now???
We thought you had killed yourself out of shame !!! LOL
Did someone stop by apt. #114 and bring you your 'fix'?
How are your unemployed junkie friends??
bugs, drugs, Argie slugs , all in this review of your home:
local.yahoo.com/info-20052499-arbour-park-tempe
Nobody likes you, everyone laughs at you.
Does your mother in Argentina know how you live and the hatred you spew on here??
I expect she is ashamed of you already. She probably tells the neighbours that you are dead :-)
> All other Latins too. I want an isolationist nation. Thank you.
You're welcome. Just mind where you park your Tardis.
So much for your flash restaurants, top motels & all the other lies you came out with.
But of course, you're Argentine, lying is just part of your character.
Do you realise how stupid you sound? I'm guessing you're about 12.
HAhahahahaha HAHahahahaha Hahhahahahaa what a hero hahahaaaa
hahahahhah aahahahha ahahahahahhh ahahahhaah hhhhhahahhah
my name : Christina GoFukYourMom
location : 34 GoFukYourMom avenue
tel: 017889-GoFukYourMom
call anytime just dont bring your mom, she sounds like a right skank!
@249 we agree, however i think Argentina is already isolated. ;)
SELF-DETERMINATION & DEMOCRACY!!
Or for the easily bored.
This article fails to hold the reader on a number of fronts:
10 It seems to think there is a god, there isn't;
2) it is written is a style that only those dedicated to get to the bottom of everything will tolerate. I don't have the time to waste;
3) The english used is fractured and does not flow at all, never mind easily;
4) The originator is not given, what do they want to hide?
Sorry, couldn't be bothered with it.
How do you fix the problem about your origins? Because leggaly you are what you want to are, but still are people implanted by foreign country...... how do you make up this point?
How you can support your origin? all your acts are made in mane of the queen....how you can change that? who other people made acts in name of the quenn of England?
That´s the difference between people and population: you, no matters what you want, you are english people living in argentine territory, as a population-
Thank you for declare your rigths: i´m shure world listen you, and says you are rigth: you want to stay under english protection, becuase your english, and no configure people, as Autodetermination Institute declare; you are a population, and has no rigth to determinate your destiny-
That´s the fact you can´t never change , no matters what you decide in the future.
All world knows that and Argentina benefited from your plesbicite-
Regards!
Who would want to be part of the sinking ship that is EU,UK,US?
Listen to yourself, “Implanted by a foreign country” is a good description of Criollo Argentina, but not true about the Falklands.
Argentina has no legitimate, legal or historical, claim to the Falkland Islands or any territory in the S Atlantic or Antarctic.
Far more countries support the Islanders rights to self-determination than Argentina’s claims of sovereignty.
You’re losing the Falklands argument on moral grounds as well as historical, and with that lost you lose the rest.
All Argentina’s efforts have been counterproductive or ineffective or both.
You are further away from any negotiations now than at any time since the invasion (the first one in 1832). The Islanders future has seldom looked brighter.
With success like that who needs dismal failure eh!
www.portafolio.co/economia/%E2%80%98-islas-malvinas-estamos-abiertos-los-negocios%E2%80%99
You left off something from your list of things we abuse you about. Your big foot size! LOL! Don't forget that.
Only joking. I think you realise I have no problem with you. I do seriously hope that you do all of this defending in good humour rather than bitterly though. It's too much to take seriously for anyone.
Keep up the good work.
Chuckle chuckle.
Its not our problem, and any mistake it will be only yours responsability, you will have to pay and high
Maybe the Canadian and Americans working on your oilfields right now can give them a hand.
“you are looking for help in SA to get out the oil???? Spend money, money, money, money, come onnnnnnnnnnnn
Its not our problem, and any mistake it will be only yours responsability, you will have to pay and high”
Oh, dear :-(
Islanders and Brits and Canadians certainly can't do it themselves.
Sounds risky.
That's it, then. Better forget the whole idea.
I don't think so!!
Feeling a bit left out, are we???
Ha ha ha ha ha ha...
www.facebook.com/BOTUK1
“you are english people living in argentine territory, as a population-”
Falkland Islanders born in the Islands cannot be English, as the Falkland Islands are not called 'England'
The clue is in the name=F.A.L.K.L.A.N.D. I.S.L.A.N.D.S
There are some Engish people in the Falklnd Islands, and Chileans, St Helenians, Scots, and people of other nationalities who are not English.
1. You'll have to show us where Britain claimed discovery. Try landing. Two different things.
2. So? The French had no problem with the British occupation. And the British had no problem with the French occupation. The “problem” was the Spanish.
3. Actually, the British claim is based on continous sovereignty since 1765. 1833 is only used because a continuous period and occupation are easier for dimwit argies to understand.
4. Self-determination only became a generally-accepted legal concept with the ratification of the UN Charter. A document that argieland signed, ratified but pays no attention to.
Oh, for the days of the Empire, when we could have simply destroyed your armed forces, government, cities and so forth. Still, it's not too late!
@103 You've been reading Salmond's dreams. Scotland won't be 6th. It will be 60th!
@104, 109, 112, 115, 186, 188, 194 Who's a TiT? And neither an inheritor or direct descendant. That makes YOU, literally, a bastard with no legitimate interest. TWAT! TWAT! HypoTWAT! But we'll KILL anyone who says otherwise! Just imagine me kicking your teeth down your throat and then stamping on your face. What a TOTAL wanker! I want to watch you die, screaming!
@121 F.O. sh*te for brains!
@142 How does it feel to be an irrelevant piece of sh*te?
@144 F.O. sh*te for brains!
@145 The evidence is clear. You turds have been LYING to the UN since 1964. 48 YEARS. But it won't matter when you no longer exist!
@162 A “mister” best known as Putrid Jelly. Putrid Jelly will be on the list of “unneeded” when Britain takes over. There are many on the list. Would you like to be on the list?
@164 There are no Chagos Islanders!
@166 The Islands are BRITISH, f*cktwat. And those people who live there will be the people we say can. Like Falkland Islanders!
WATCH OUT FOR FURTHER INSTALMENTS OF ”HOW TO SHOW ARGIES ARE HYSTERICAL BRAIN-DEAD PSYCOPATHIC CRIMINALS!
the place instead of the spanish!!!
lts not too late for that, if you're still interested! LOL.
@270 Conqueror,
My boys are fascinated by your posts!
Must come from bloodthirsty computer games.
@259 Rosarino,
The Falklands are not, have never been & never will be, Argentine territory.
However you are living in native Amerindian territory.
You Argentines stole it, after murdering the rightful owners.
You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. Poltroons.
Miedosa y asquerosa!
“Miedosa y asquerosa!”
Timid and disgusting????
That's YOU, Sussie!!
LOL
How many men do you bend over for??
Sad little boy.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL !!! !!
So, Isolde stated she has children...
ummmm...
but,
no “courtesy stiches” in her “vagina neck”....
......ummmmm
no wonder she keeps touching her toes for the bloody rubbish britons.
Sounds like Isolde's children have been raised and educated well.
Likely, they are more mature than you, and would be shocked by filthy behaviour.
They live a good life in the Falklands while you live in a stinking pest hole in BA!!
LOL laughs on you.
Remember the stupid things you say?
Your mother is very proud of you LOL
SUSSIE BOY
““Cristina looks like me after a day of work. As a working woman I understand her.
I am a strong Argentinean woman,
I have to work real hard turning lots of tricks, lots of man...sometimes 15 a day. But im proud!
But now my arse get screwed all day by many men and some don’t pay just
Bang, bang, bang, ””
Poor mixed up Campora-boy !!
LOL LOL LOL LOL
hehehe
Isolde is in the islands no wonder she keeps touching her toes...her vagina neck is too big with so many children...but her arse is intact for the bloody rubbish english men...
Poor Isolde/ Skare, Yensere?
It's quite usual to hear both Argentines and Uruguayans wish the British forces hadn't been forced out in 1806/1807. Argentina would be more like Canada and less like the 3rd Reich. Perhaps Uruguay would be like New Zealand.
You really are a disgusting thing, arent you?
l was going to insult you, but that would put me at your level.
Thanks for the support, Troy Tempest.
OR is it because all of you are so bloody jealous of just what we have in our Country. We are actually living in the present century with every bit of modern technology available to us. There are almost two cars per person. Everyone pretty much has mobile phones as well as access to the internet. We do not have unemp. We are rated as one of the top Countries in the world to visit , Argentina does not even come close to that . We don't trash each others homes as Argentines did when they so call came to liberate us in 1982. But above all we have a first class education system which is something Argentina has not otherwise we would not be seeing these deranged people putting such comments on any of the topics on Mercopress.
To sum it up That is why we are where we are today. Argentina is so backward it is trying to drag us down with it. Time now to start growing up and move forward with the succesfull ones Argentina. If your people spent as much effort in putting your own house in order as you do slagging the Islanders Argentina would be today a great Country. But untill you start changing you will stay the same. Stuck in your lost world.
“Soozy,
You really are a disgusting thing, arent you?
l was going to insult you, but that would put me at your level.”
He just makes Argentinians look bad to the rest of the world.
I'm sure even his La Campora superiors are laughing at him and homo-erotic fantasies.
He will be they dumped when he becomes too much of an embarrassment or CFK falls.
I'll bet it will be only a matter of time before Roman Catholic Argentinians beat up the ex-Campora pederast ! LOL LOL
@281
“I'm sure even his La Campora superiors are laughing at him and homo-erotic fantasies. ”
And the UK Crew laughs at you too!!
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
The sad thing is, although Argentina seems to have an issue with self determination and democracy, she obviously believes everyone deserves a vote, including the mentally ill.
Mind you, how do you think the Peronists get so many votes!!
He is definitely mentally ill.
He portrays himself as “a proud Argentinian woman” living the fast and good life in Tempe Arizona.
I agree with Isolde, he's obviously a mentally ill troll that La Campora or the Argentinian Secret Police have hired to spread chaos online and hamper reasoned debate about Argie gov't issues.
He seems to be a follower of CFK's personality cult. He is particularly sensitive to sexual remarks about CFK :-D
As Isolde noted, he has no particular focus on Falklands.
He IS focused on pederasty and anal sex, though
LOL LOL
I like to provoke him to distract him, but when he gets angry I hope he doesn't torture kittens.
They started insulting the argentine leader but don't like to see other insults made directly to Isolde children.
She should have kept her mouth shut! There are many viewers that wants to chop Isolde children's heads for the islanders to boil and make soup.
You see, Isolde, you have made a mess of yourself demanding be called “mrs” and saying you have “children”.
By the way, I post in the Economist, which no one can traspass my web post using my name, or delete my comments.
Because of the UK comments made against my country and the argentine leader this web site is known as a Port-A-John, full of rubbish bloody english crap.
lol
“boiling children down for soup?”
In a civilised country sussie would be called insane.
In Argentina, sussie is a “patriot”
I am sure Argentina is proud of Sussie, a “good Argentinian”
l did compose a bloodthirsty reply to your ravings, puta.
But that would drag me down to your level, puta.
Luckily for you, Mr (?) won't see your stupid rants.
I'll wipe them before he gets home.
You're a wackjob, soozy-dickhead.
Completely insane, Finis
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