Argentina calls on Ghana to “assume its responsibility” in the release of ARA Libertad
Argentina demanded that Ghana “assumes its responsibility” of freeing the Navy flagship ARA Libertad, which remains impounded in the African country’s port Tema over claims of US funds and warned Argentina could take the case to the United Nations, because negotiating with ‘vulture funds’ is not an option.
Late Friday and 17 days into the controversial retention of the vessel, Foreign Minister Hector Timerman read a communiqué from Government House, Casa Rosada pointing out Argentina’s position and emphasizing that Argentina “will appeal to all possible legal resources before the Ghana courts” to obtain the release of ARA Libertad.
Timerman said that the impounding of the naval vessel is an “illegal action” since it violates rights of all countries because war vessels have immunities which Ghana recognizes and abides in the different international conventions of which she is signatory.
“It must be remembered that the State of Ghana is responsible internationally for the actions of all the branches of the State, including the Judiciary”, said Timerman.
“The vulture funds requested the impounding of the Argentine frigate in Ghana based on an injunction from a UK court. However these vulture funds have never tried doing something similar with Argentine assets in the UK that enjoy immunity”, claimed Timerman.
In respect of this case they should not forget “that vulture funds have failed in their attempts in the US, Germany, France and this week in Switzerland”.
“As has been the rule since Nestor Kirchner took office in 2003, the Argentine government will not yield to the vulture funds nor will it allow to be pressured by their local partners that fill the media responsive to them with false information”, emphasized the minister.
Timerman said that Argentina retains “all its options before international tribunals open, and if necessary will appeal to the United Nations, but negotiating with vulture funds is not and will not be one of those options”.
This is the first time a statement on the controversial retention of the vessel is done from Casa Rosada, Government House, which seems to indicate that following the lack of success from the ‘political mission’ sent to Ghana, Argentina is already preparing for other options.
A task force headed by Ambassador Susana Ruiz Cerrutti has been named signalling that Argentina will be going directly to international tribunals instead of Ghana since it mistrusts the impartiality of the local magistrate Richard Adjei Frimpong and the other high courts of the country regarding the injunction presented by NML Capital from Elliot Associates, that are intent in collecting over 300 million dollars in principal and interest from defaulted sovereign bonds.
Ambassador Ruiz Cerrutti is a top negotiator of the Argentine Foreign Ministry and has been involved in discussions over border disputes with Chile and at the International Court of Justice of The Hague in the dispute with Uruguay over the construction of pulp mills in jointly managed water courses.
Apparently Argentina will be presenting its case to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, an independent body but linked to the UN, of which both Argentina and Ghana are State parties.
In this context Argentina is expected to press on several articles of the Convention on the Law of the Sea which establish that non commercial vessels are protected by sovereign immunity and thus are free of impounds and embargoes.
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HEADLINE: Buenos Aires,
Homemade Bomb Blows Up In Boy's Face
And the cat and mouse game continues………………..
NML-Capital is getting a bit uncomfortable with all this “Media Attention”….
Vulture funds live a good live in the shadows.. they dislike any scrutiny of their methods…
Last week they “Offered” us to invest a couple of billion U$D in YPF if we just would paid the bail….
Duly Refused by Argentina…..
As we can read today,here at MercoPress, the day before yesterday they “offered” to fly our crew and our many guests back home….
Duly Refused by Argentina….
Mr.Singer & Co.(and their friendly Courts) are getting nervous, indeed…
Let’s see who ends as Tom and who ends as Jerry……….
“No Pasarán”…..
El Think
PS:
For all the brainwashed turnips in here that parrot that “50,000 U$D a day port fee” turnipidity….
Those “50,000 U$D a day” are the ALL INCLUSIVE costs (Wages, Fuel, Food, Medical Care, “Social Activities?” Port Fees, etc. etc. etc) of having the ARA Libertad”with her +300 crew on a luxury cruise for Elite Navy Cadets during a half year…..
Jupppppp….. Quite expensive indeed!
I look forwards to the Argentinean State cutting out those unnecessary expenses in the future…
I am fine if you people don't support a nuclear defense program in your country, that is your right, but i am in support of one for Argentina, and save your breath i have little tolerance for dictators, bias stand and injustice.
Wow anyone watching the news? Mossad just blew up a building in Beirut.
Argentina better get working on the nuclear defence program we never know when the trigger happy people will aim their guns at Argentina.
“I am fine if you people don't support a nuclear defense program in your country, that is your right, but i am in support of one for Argentina, and save your breath i have little tolerance for dictators, bias stand and injustice.”
Not according to your FACEBOOK page:
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332871196758497&set=pb.100001068575678.-2207520000.1350436
I accept that it is a military training ship but is it (to quote the article) a 'war vessel'?
Also, the crew has not been detained. They are free to leave.
The court will decide I expect.
this action is to recover a small proportion of the interest due, won't reduce the overall debt.
#8 are you still stalking Argentine guys? Give it up dude that obsession with Argentine guys is going to kill you.
This boat will just be used to cover some of NML's expenses but sets an important precedent.
“ a 100% made in Argetina nuclear defence program”
titter-ye-not
I like this bit: “In this context Argentina is expected to press on several articles of the Convention on the Law of the Sea which establish that non commercial vessels are protected by sovereign immunity and thus are free of impounds and embargoes.”
Unless, of course, the applicable country waived its sovereignty immunity on such matters in order to secure loans.
This bunch of muppets running Argentina are amateurs, and they show it everytime they open their mouths.
Oh, PH. Twenty million dollars won't buy the plans for a nuclear missile, let alone any of the actual nuclear material, parts, expertise etc required to actually build one.
But even if Argentina had a nuclear weapon, what would you do?
Let's put FANTASY MODE on:
Argentina has a nuke. They threaten to Nuke Ghana if they don't release your ship. The UNSC immediately tell you that any nuclear attack on Ghana wuld be responded to in kind?
But you do it anyway and nuke Ghana, despite the fact that your ship and crew are still there.
Then what? You sit back, slap yourselves on the back for a job well done.
Then one day you'd look at the window and say, what's that heading straight for us? Then the world around you would suddenly boil to about 3000 degrees Celsius and the skin would melt on your body, and your eyes would fry in their sockets. Then the blast wave would hit and you, the building you were stood in, and everything around for kilometres, would be obliterated. Then the implosion would occur, and everything would get sucked back to ground zero.
No more Pirat-hunter. No more Argentina.
FANTASY MODE off.
That would be the type of retaliation Argentina would receive if they had a nuclear weapon, and were then stupid enough to use it.
And who would be nuking Argentina in response to your nuclear attack on Ghana?
The USA
The UK
France
Russia
China
Take your pick.
Argentina needs to grow up and pay its debts. So do you PH.
“Article 236
Sovereign immunity
The provisions of this Convention regarding the protection and
preservation of the marine environment do not apply to any warship, naval auxiliary, other vessels or aircraft owned or operated by a State and used, for the time being, only on government non-commercial service.”
www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm
So far so good for Hector.
Argentina's bond agreement :
“To the extent the Republic [of Argentina] or any of its revenues, assets or properties shall be entitled … to any immunity from suit, … from attachment prior to judgment, … from execution of a judgment or from any other legal or judicial process or remedy, … the Republic has irrevocably agreed not to claim and has irrevocably waived such immunity to the fullest extent permitted by the laws of such jurisdiction…”
Oh dear.
What does “irrevocably waived such immunity to the fullest extent permitted” mean in Argentina?
I think he is playing a cunning plan. He must really hate Argentina and CFKC.
You should find them who behind this country. !
Re: Mae hen wlad fy naha-dau..etcetera.
THE WELSH IN PATAGONIA.
Yes, I know your history–even the juicy bits that recount the sojourn of Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid amongst your community –there must be summat in our bad Celtic blood that attracts such unsavoury characters!
But you forgot to say that –just a few years ago, the Welsh language had become so infrequently used by your young generation– you had to ask the Welsh government to send you some volunteer teachers.
I’m afraid my Welsh ain’t much cop. For the want of a better word, I was ‘educated’ at Hereford, Harrogate and Oxford and much to my regret –when I was a child– the British Establishment was still doing its best to erase our ancient tongue from the face of the earth. Thank God, things have finally changed for the better!
Pob Luc!
For: EVERYONE.
WHO’S THIS ALEX VARGAS FELLOW?
So much hot air in response to this man’s unimportant utterances. From his Website, I see he can’t even spell in Spanish! He’s makes a simple mistake, common to the undereducated (DEVO, instead of the correct DEBO –in English ‘I owe’)
NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
During my service in the Korean War, I was evacuated to a U.S military hospital in Hiroshima, a city in Japan which had not yet been rebuilt after suffering an ATOMIC ATTACK some 6 years’ earlier. Only a RAVING MANIAC would wish such a TERRIBLE RETRIBUTION upon even his bitterest enemy!!!
Talk about the ‘Chattering Classes’. So many members of this Group act worse than ill-bred school kids –their discourse being one of childish insults, ignorance and intolerance of all who don’t concur with their own outrageous, infantile ideas!!!
I’m about ready to give-up
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
The nuclear rants are just infantile born out of frustration.
Don't give up. Let the childish stuff go over your head because there are some very relevant and interesting posts in amongst the diversion tactics. : ) Just a suggestion.
Oct 20th, 2012 - 09:51 am
Jim. I think you might have got your articles mixed up bloke.
I dare you to go up to a Ghanaian man and call him a tool.
If you do you'd better look out because he would beat your sorry arse and knock you into next week.
I find it funny that Timidman talks about responsibility when the government he represents refuses to accept any.
This must be from overexposure to the fantasy world that most Rgs live in on a daily basis.
I think it is funny he is here trying to peddle that non-sense though.
It is sad and pathetic and I feel sorry as their worldviews come crashing in on them just as their economy tanks.
This is why they are all so bitter and envious of the USA UK EU.
Sad sad sad creatures.
Lep
I didnt read the article.
I dont interested on gossips.
I hope you remember this Mr Tinman :)
If you are not interested in gossip why do you post on this forum? If you didn't read the article why post at all?
FYI lightthink, If you call someone a tool it's the same as calling them a W@nker, a prick, or other similar insult.
I've met people fom Ghana, even worked with a few. They're built like brick privies. And that's just the women, the men are much bigger.
So once again I dare you to call a Ghanaian a tool to his face.
Greetings from Iran. I have been following your wise words with interest.
There a many areas of mutual interest between our two great nations.
Of course there are present difficulties, but Argentina’s acceptance that the AMIA Jewish Centre Bombing was a Zionist/British conspiracy intended to discredit our honourable nation – should remove any hindrance to full and fruitful relationship.
United we can defeat the hegemonic evil of the UK, and become a leading world power block.
I read that your President Fernandez (a Niqab would suit her so well), also wishes to rid your country of the filthy US dollar. A currency linkage between our two nations would create a powerful reserve currency – you will see the rial is performing as well as the Peso.
www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/international/iranian-our-money-is-becoming-more-and-more-worthless-every-day
Your desire to achieve a nuclear capability is noted. You will be aware that Iran is presently enriching uranium, but I emphasise that as a signatory to the NPT, and being a member of the International Atomic Agency, we are acquiring this technology for peaceful purposes only (wink).
The below link may help you in your quest, but we have acquired the last items presently available.
www.rocketfireworks.ca/atomicbomb.html
PS If you require assistance releasing the ARA Libertad, from the Zionist vultures – we have just renovated our Soviet submarine renamed Al-Colander.
regator.com/p/257566675/iran_submarine_returns_to_persian_gulf_after_refit/
PPS. I see on your Facebook page that you follow RT. Why not follow Press TV for independent truthful journalism – no unpleasant reader comment from Zionist lackeys like here. Possible problems with reception in some areas.
www.presstv.com/detail/2012/10/19/267542/israel-must-have-urged-press-tv-ban/
Timerman deliberately lying yet again, as knows full well that the court based the seizure of the boat on the fact that Argentina had wavered her immunity.
You say:- “ARA Libertad” with her +300 crew on a luxury cruise for Elite Navy Cadets”
I say
Elite Navy Cadets? You mean the escapee's from the local asylum ?
What navy? that's 3 ships out of action for impounds or repairs...... The only “Navy” you'll have left is two men in a row boat.
What a Turnip!!!! Chuckle, chuckle
I guess being flipped the bird by ghana is too much for argentina to handle, tough titties. Its all good!
latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/10/19/argentine-ship-held-in-ghana-causing-political-fallout-in-argentina/
It is the same denial Argentina is currently using not to pay the judgements form ICSID since there were no judgements in Arg courts they fell like they don't have ot pay. Even though when they signed the contracts they waived portion and SAID THEY WOULD ABIDE BY the ICSID.
Liars
Thieves
Scofflaws
They want to have it both ways again
I don't think it will happen though
USA wants to embarrass and box them in
maybe go so far as to let them crash and burn
teach them a lesson on who is boss
seems they forgot
What made the country [Ghana] attractive for investment was that it offered potential partners a legally binding assurance that any money they advanced, whether through loans or investments, would be repaid and a credible judicial remedy was available in the event that things went awry; having provided for these two necessities, it is no wonder that Ghana brought in nearly $8 billion in foreign direct investment (FDI) last year.
In contrast, Argentina—a regional power in its South American neighbourhood with twice the population, twelve times the GDP, and eight times the foreign exchange reserves of Ghana (more than enough to pay off its overdue debts many times over)—received just $7.2 billion in FDI last year. This sharp contrast is understandable when one considers that Buenos Aires has been something of a deadbeat with its obligations since it underwent the largest default in history in 2001, one involving some $100 billion in bonds.
www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/features/artikel.php?ID=253706
Could say us what is the meaning of Farsi word “” BIM “” .
I used the example of the Welsh colony as an example of how any agreement to respect a culture and way of life made by Argentina is worthless. I would agree about the standard of debate. Oxford? Dry bob or wet bob??
What comes around goes around,.. Argentina.
Are you people the most racist on Earth towards Argentines? I think so, read the comments here.
What agreeement with the Welsh? The welsh were left totally alone, if they choose to keep their culture or not is their problem.
The hatred of of all of you for Argentina is trully zapping your brains. How sad but how fun.
Look at all the comments here, all of them talking how pathetic Argentina is, but yet they spend 24/7 of their precious time talking about a pathetic country.
You can't make it up
Gleefully waiting am I
not too long now
you do.
Did you find the meaning of “” BIM “” from internet translation !
From what I am told you have been waiting since 2007. So no, you are a loser that has wasted 6 years of your life. Sorry, not my fault those are the facts, loser.
Plus the expected ( in the budget) WB and IDB loans won't happen in 2013
What's left but inflating the peso..
that's all there is
hahahahaha. Let his own words speak for themselves.
If the Ks added in U$15-30 Billion a year in stolen funds to make it look like the economy was doing well but now there is nothing left the illusion is broken...what do you do? What do you do?
Hmm I wonder if 3x the lithium is helping her get through the day?
I don't' think so.
If TMBOA is taking all that lithium it's no wonder her eyes are lighting up like flames, and I thought that was her temper!
LOLs
I hear the chefs in Argentina are preparing lots of menus and recipes for barley.
MMm mmm barley soup, barley bread...yum yum
Do you have Romnesia? Where have I EVER TALKED ABOUT INTERNAL ARGENTINE politics?
Never.
You are always the one bringing it up.
I don't discuss internal politics with US-Americans, UK-Englishmen, Eurounioners, etc. Sorry, don't have the priviledge.
None of those?
What else is there?
I love talking about the inept dare I say delusional policies of CFK.
Yeah delusional I will go with that.
We can talk about how they thought about coercing a politician to strong arm a judge is appropriate. I know that's how it works in a failed democracy... er um dictatorship...but not in a civilized country. No not in a civilized country. Do you think those Ministers will lose their posts? Do you think they might have a terrible terrible accident or maybe one of their kids?
Probably.
A less wise American administration might have taken an opposite approach and made an international scandal.... Perhaps special forces or and embargo... But instead they just used quiet diplomacy and spoke softly...
wink
Maybe the son (Hector) was looking for one of his father (Jacobo) most “vivid memories” at that plane….
A black bakelite contraption with two wiggling electrodes at the front and a little shiny aluminum sign riveted at the back that read.... :
Made by GE
Chicago
Illinois.
Does that get passed down a generation? That could explain a LOT!
Different airplane and different despicable dirty war. The Americans used waterbarding much more effectively and continue to research for other methods. (The worst outside the “civilized” world are the such as the narco gangs in Mexico, who murder entire families to extract informers.) Then of course, because of their special secret security laws is the DGSE and the FSB, that make the Americans look like idiots. You and I both know the Americans were promoting sales of American security equipment to Argentine law enforcement agencies. This was all budgeted and spun as training assistance.
So what is on the menu in your abode this evening?
I was thinking about some of my very own Sweet/Hot Chili Upland Goose Teriyaki with Surinam Rice........
But, lazy as I am ,I'll surely end trowing a mutton leg at the barbie…….…
@6 Say goodbye “Libertad”.
@7 And you'll be returning to argieland to “assist” in this “defence” program?
@13 I have a new option for you. A stainless steel stake with a thread. Then you can spin round and take your last view of the world!
@21 All argies are tools! What's your problem?
@28 Then STFU!
@31 A sacrifice to the gods!
@33 “Wavered”? “Waived”!
@44 What's the matter? Upset are we? Like we give a fuck? Glad you find it fun. I hate using offensive language, except when justified, but have you thought of getting a JOB?
@48 1982. Invader. Occupier. Beaten shitless. Surrendered. Lies. Whinges. Whines. More lies. Cowards. Liars. Genocides. Murderers. Torturers. Did I mention genocides? More invasions. More occupations. More murders. More torture. Crucifixion. Burning. Garroting. Theft. More theft. The history of argieland. Did I miss out tyranny, dictatorship, colonialism, imperialism, trespassing? On the plus side they are all faggots, queers and butt-benders.
@53 But then you're a prick. What would a prick know?
@56 Of course you don't have the privilege. Argies can't discuss the internal politics of argieland. You're not allowed. Disagree with CFK? Have a thought not dictated by CFK? Shit in a small bucket so it spills over the sides and splashes on your shoes. Argie internal politics = dictatorship and tyranny. Argies are faggots. There are no quarrels about that.
@65 Once a faggot............
Re: “I dont know anyone who was Korean War fighter, 80 year old who is living in Spain.”
And I’m sorry not to understand what it is you wish to tell me.
Kindly elucidate!
Cheers!
Jim.
And what then is Argentina?
A country who borrowed money, promising to pay it back, then refuses. That's stealing. So NML try to recoup some of their loses from Argentina by sending in the bailiffs.
Argentina is an unremitting debtor, who had flouted international law and just plain common decency to repay money that was loaned to them in good faith.
Argentina needs to accept that this situation was brought about by YOUR government. The same government that REFUSES to accept ANY responsibility for its actions. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? In this case NML and Ghana's.
Well Argentina shouldn't have borrowed the money if it couldn't pay it back.
You have sown the wind, now reap the whirlwind.
The sweet and hot goose teriyaki sounds delicious. Would you serve it with a lighter bodied red wine? Or something else, like a pilsner?
You might not agree with NML but if you want to talk morals, you need to look at CFKC and her blatant illegal and immoral activities.
Oh yeah? So London 2005 was well reaped, correct? You make the population bear the consequences for their government's actions.
So you agree with the terrorists then. Good.
Quite a few are, yes.
Having said that, they do appear to be in very good company with some extremely xenophobic Argentines who dont reserve their contempt for just one race, but see every other human as lesser beings and contemptible simply for not being Argentine.
A well-met group...just a shame they drown out all the sensible discussion with their personal petty conceits.
Wrong.
I dislike strongly foreigners who come here and talk down to us like their countries have no moral skeletons, has never engaged in wars of agression, and obey international all the time, even when not convenient to them. If there foreigners were humble, there would be no problem
Since all foreigners here can't keep their supercilious mouths zipped, and are not humble, then yes I don't like them much.
It's not me who dislikes everyone, it just happens that everyone here behaves in a way which makes them undeserving of any respect.
Look in the mirror scum suckers and wind your necks in.
Another myth just debunked.
indomitable juggernaut Conqueror !
All Argies are tools , whats my problem ?
well
they might be...if you show us who they are ,we'll be glad.
----------------------------------------
69
J.H
We'll be glad if you explain your comment 22 in detail.
It is the duty of a citizen in a democracy to hold the government accountable, to criticise them, to demonstrate against them and if necessary to vote them out of office.
Argentina is a democracy (so the Argentine posters on here say) so it is the duty of the citizen to protest against the government.
It is also the duty of the citizen to accept responsibility for what the government does in it's name.
Argentina doesn't appear to do responsibility. Face it, your government borrowed money, and to do so it waved Argentina's sovereign immunity rights. Tough, accept responsibility for what your government did in your name, and complain, demonstrate and admonish them
They are ultimately responsible for everything that happens regarding Argentina, whether internally or externally.
If you don't like how they've been running things then vote them out. It you can't wait that long, demonstrate and demand that the President and government resign.
You see citizen's of democracies enjoy untold freedom, but with that freedom comes responsibility.
My days of Cru Classé's and most other ethylic niceties are over……..
I seem to have lost the taste for them, quite recently……..
Luckily, besides being astonishingly cheap ;-) …… water does open a whole new universe for the degustation of food…..
I’m still hooked on smooth Speysides though.......
Cutting them with the local waters can be an “Erlebniss”……
Interesting times ahead certainly.
........Famous last words?
We will see if this pretty little speech comes back to haunt Laughing Boy Timerman if TMBOA is forced into ( yet another ) embarrassing U turn.
www.infonews.com/2012/10/20/politica-43844-alicia-castro-por-malvinas-la-opinion-publica-britanica-esta-dividida-islas-malvinas.php
'The government denies it, but the Church does not let her talk to Cristina's Basilica Itatí'
www.clarin.com/politica/Gobierno-Iglesia-Cristina-basilica-Itati_0_795520581.html
'“This is a winning decade for all Argentines,” said the President in Corrientes'
iguazunoticias.com/v2011beta/2012/10/esta-es-una-decada-ganada-por-todos-los-argentinos-afirmo-la-presidenta-en-corrientes/
not a great solution as it's a high maintenance operation but it's a start.
1. Argentina refuse to pay the bond so the Ghanaian courts seize the Libertad and award it to NML is lieu of the $20 million.
2. NML hires a crew to sail the Libertad back to the US for auction.
3. Argentina naval forces (suspend your disbelief and stay with me folks) intercept the Libertad, take the ship by force and spirit the ship and crew back to Argentina.
4. The US condemns Argentina for an act of piracy against a US owned vessel and dispatches ships to establish anti-piracy patrols in the South Atlantic.
5. The UK contributes ships offers the military facilities in the Falklands as a base for South Atlantic operations.
6. All Argentine ships in the South Atlantic are declared legitimate targets for US/UK warships.
7. The rest of the world piss themselves laughing as the UN security council have to explain to the Argentine delegation that it seems there are pirates in the South Atlantic after all........but it turns out they're Argentine!
Alicia Castro is like all Argentine politicians prone to making wildly inaccurate statements.
There may be a small minority who couldn't give a fig about the Falklands, but most would support the islanders right to self-determination.
I wonder what prescription medication she is on? Whatever it is they need to increase the dose.
Ahh bless you, little lamb.
Did some one tread on you Ego??? “But it's not me........It's everyone else....”
Stop being so pathetic and grow a pair will you?
“If there foreigners were humble, there would be no problem” Yes I know..... did what they were told, thought what you wanted them to think????? GROW UP!!! You are such a sniveling, whinning piece of s**t. really you are.
“It's not me who dislikes everyone, it just happens that everyone here behaves in a way which makes them undeserving of any respect.”
Oh dear, play the victim, always play the victim!! I think that it is you who are undeserving of any respect.
77 War Monkey
Nice one. tell it like it is!!
Love it, afterwards, the film rights will be sold and it's Hollywood all the way baby!!!
LOL
I get it perfectly. You hate, I simply react to hate. So the hating, and I'll vanish.
@81
“Argentina doesn't appear to do responsibility. Face it, your government borrowed money, and to do so it waved Argentina's sovereign immunity rights. Tough, accept responsibility for what your government did in your name, and complain, demonstrate and admonish them.”
So again, you are accepting responsibility for the Iraq war? Therefore you are stating the terrorist attacks of 2005 were legitimate, because you surely as a country have done NOTHING to take responsibility for that war. No, a stupid protest in 03 doesn't count.
If debts are to be burdened by the people, why not war crimes? (a far worse act).
@90
I guess someone didn't like the truth spelled out to him. Don't get that mad.
“If debts are to be burdened by the people, why not war crimes?”
People spend money, not war crimes.
Oct 20th, 2012 - 06:18 pm
.........and I quote.......
“Since all foreigners here can't keep their supercilious mouths zipped, and are not humble, then yes I don't like them much.”
If you generalise, we generalise. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
If you don't want a fight, don't start one.
Come off it, Tobias, you are quite the most obsessive hate-monger around here.
But fortunately with your Iraq war analogy (dumb though it is) you've put your finger on an excellent opportunity for Argentina to take the moral high ground. For, while it is too late for anybody to undo the Iraq war, Argentina still has the chance to honour the agreements it entered into, and settle its debts.
And just think, that way, you will also get your ship back, and the hostages your government has stranded in Ghana.
What are you waiting for?
If
KFC really is living in 'interesting times'
'93 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#)
I get it perfectly. You hate, I simply react to hate. S(t)o(p) the hating, and I'll vanish.'
Giorgio .... you are a wonderful chap.... now fuck off!
the Argentinian govt. are only being forced to do what they originally promised to do.
too bad they're out of cash. Only way to recover some of the losses is to confiscate property i think, i'm not a expert though.
Looks like the ship is in Ghana for the long haul. I wonder if Argentina will be stupid enough to riase this using their position on the UN security council.
Well…
It has just been officially announced that:
1) The crew of the ARA Libertad will be immediately repatriated.
2) The Captain and a ”minimum crew” will remain on board to attend the ship.
What did I write some 20 days ago?.......:
”In the implausible scenario of not being freed; I expect captains Salonio and Allievi to:
1) Select a small volunteer “chore force” to remain on board.
2) Insure the safe return of the rest of her crew and guests to their respective Countries.
3) Scuttle her in the most effective way, exercising utmost care of not damaging or endangering Ghanian property or lives.”
en.mercopress.com/2012/10/02/mla-summers-tells-tanzania-falklands-don-t-want-to-be-colonized-by-argentina
Oct 20th, 2012 - 11:16 pm
Your powers of futurology are exemplary. Give yourself a pat on the back.
One question though. What has the link got to do with it?
You are smart! So taking your analogy to the next logical conclusion, since I can't “spend a life”, I can kill you and walk away a free man forever. Afterall, you can't spend murder.
Nice one Einstein.
@96
And who was the country who elected an idiot to give us lesser ones the chance to have a moral ground? If you at least arrested Blair... but not even that.
I was thinking why him and W Bush got along so copasetic. W Bush was a conservative (war monger) who loved to spend like a leftie, and Blair was a leftie (spend spend spend), who was a war monger.
Man, your countries are paying for such a nefarious combo now.
Try again.
#3? The raft of charges he would face would be impressive...... he wouldn't be going home for a long long time.....
Don't worry, the USA will eventuallly pay dearly for dropping those two bombs in Asia.
Remember that the Asians, their time-horizon is hundreds of years. They will make the Americans pay, and they've told me as much (and the US government knows it too).
Arrogance by having nukes and opressing the rest of the world with them will come back to bite them (really, to swallow them whole, just look at what happened to the poor idiots for supporting some rag-tag called the Taliban in the 80s... ouch).
Do you actually know which country the U.S. used 2 nuclear bombs on to end WWII, or just that we bombed “Asia”?
You could have “ended” WWII by dropping a couple of them by the sea in front of the imperial palace, could have made the point that way. At least it would have given you moral cover to say “heck, we warned you”.
You didn't even try, and the world will never forget. Which means, you are screwed (well, likely your grandchildren are).
Anyway, that is not of my interest. Back to topic.
I think someone in government caught wind of my idea. Ghana want to play “we follow the law” game? Fine. I hear mass deporations of the thousands of cast-away west Africans in Argentina whom arrived in barges over the last 10-20 years is coming. All of them to be dropped by the Ghanan Supreme court.
Illegal immigrants, it's the law.
Could you tell me more about these Asian “time horizons” of centuries?
Are you West African?
I don't think many east asians shed a tear over Hiroshima.
A bomb in front of the imperial palace? Good idea .... lets drop one in Pto Madera... out in Rio de la Plata may be a better plan though .... it would bring about regime change and mean no more dredging for 100 years or so... a win win situation...
LA CAMPORA & VATAYON MILITANTE
LA CAMPORA - a semi military style terrorist organization that is led by Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner's son - MaximoKirchner. It is named after former a known Argentine terrorist of the Peronist political party former president Héctor José Cámpora. Although it was established in 2003, it became politically influential after the death and state funeral of Néstor Kirchner. Maximo Kirchner used money that his father Nestor Kirchner left him in his will to further the organization and take part in expropiations of private property, the oil company YPF, which Argentina expropiated (stole) from the government of Spain, and Aerolineas Argentinas also expropiated (stolen) from the government of Spain. The airline is going to be renamed “Aerocamporas Argentinas” by the end of the year.
VATAYON MILITANTE - The Argentine government under Cristina Fernandez de Kircher and The Argentine National penitentiary service, takes inmates out of jail without judicial permission, to attend and participate in political events of Kirchner. The prisoners are paid an “allowance” of $2700 per month for joining this political group. The creation of this Vatayon militante group which are CONVICTED AND INCARCERATED for everything from murderer to armed robbery is becoming the Kirchner government's militant force of the future. If things get rough for Cristina, these prisoners have nothing to lose for defending the Kirchner movement with violence. They also have access to guns and drugs, and prostitues all courtesy of the Kirchner government.
See these documentaries to see the scary truth as to what is going on in Argentina:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GPAR4rdko
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7sfYGJobII
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcmymeZf8jM
My Arg loved one's dream is to travel the world. Which means he”ll be able achieve his dream through what the U.S. offers and come HERE :))
Regime change into what?
@119
Last time I checked, the so-called “American dream” as as alive as Methuselah. Can't keep your dams plugged, your roads paved, and your bridges erect.
Did you know that the immigrant that arrived in the USA in 1920 was out of poverty within his generation? Now it takes at least two generations, and some estimates since 2008 indicated they won't get out of poverty.
Your “loved” one (surely not argenetine), will stay poor for a long long time.
“So taking your analogy to the next logical conclusion, since I can't “spend a life”,”
You are spending your life applying false logic so yes, you can “spend a life” - Nice one Einstein.
Now tell us, Tobias, what is the origin of the word ”?
Well enlighten me, how do you spend murder? You seem to have experience.
The fact you hold countries who owe money to stricter standard of crime than those that commited war crimes is all I need to know about you anyway. You are the same as Lepicron and many others here.
War crimes? nah, don't hold anyone accountable.
Some 20 billion? GO get em, nukes and all!
Please don't be surprised why Argentines have no respect for your values as countries.
Are you referring to the origin of the word “colony”?
According to Toby the Romans invented it 2,500 years ago on the expectation that Cristobal Colon would sail to America.
I dislike strongly foreigners who come here and talk down to us like their countries have no moral skeletons, has never engaged in wars of agression, and obey international all the time, even when not convenient to them. If there foreigners were humble, there would be no problem”“”“”
What is “here”? You mean MerconPress forum? or Argentina?
hmmm...anyway.... seems to me that the same could be said about you and yours. (just saying)
“”“”Since all foreigners here can't keep their supercilious mouths zipped, and are not humble, then yes I don't like them much.“”“”“
Well there is nothing like a supercilious statement to show up others being supercilious is there!?
As I said; some people here have a, predisposition to xenophobia, dont assume that everybody does just because it suits your current argument: as well as inevitably being wrong its also....supercilious and anything but *humble*
”“”“It's not me who dislikes everyone, it just happens that everyone here behaves in a way which makes them undeserving of any respect.”“”“
Everyone huh?
Really? ”EVERYONE?“
and, I'm ”wrong“..?
I think you have just conclusively shown that I was most certainly correct...but, brushing that aside for now.
I imagine that you end up getting treated the way you treat others... if you are going to keep coming out with statements such as ”everyone etc etc“ then ”everyone” will assume that position anyway...so why bother coming here (mercoprass) and posting at all? You have already made you mind up about everything and everyone, so what IS the point?
If you are completely closed off to EVERYONE, having written them all off as supercilious foreigners, then what, “Pray tell” (did you like that bit of irony?) is your personal definition of Xenophobia that precludes your automatic inclusion within its sorry halls?
Im not seeing much in the way of enlightened authorship from anybody here.....
The judge also refused to allow the ship to be refueled, leaving it without power to maintain essentials.”
Think: scuttling a tall ship in port will solve nothing, except bring dishonor. I truly feel sad for the captain, but I confess enjoying the show. I can hardly wait until the press get interviews with some of the cadets. (I also expect the admiralties will order everyone to keep quiet... but many will talk.)
Congratulations Ghana! As for CFK and Timmerman there'sk an old saying... “when a monkey climbs a tree, they show their arse every time...”
126 Anbar : you wrote in the middle of your comment...
Everyone huh?
Really? ”EVERYONE?“
and, I'm ”wrong“..?
I think you have just conclusively shown that I was most certainly correct...but, brushing that aside for now.
How can anyone possibly reply to that IF you not press the submit comment button ??
In reply to my message a propos the aftermath of the nuclear attack on the Japanese city of Hiroshima...
You said:
“I dont know anyone who was Korean War fighter, 80 year old who is living in Spain.”
Is this is a bald statement of a fact, so simple that it’s hardly worth your having taken the trouble to make it???
Is it a sarcastic expression of incredulity???
If neither, what exactly DO you mean???
Thank you!
Jim Handley, in Madrid, Spain.
Belive me......... I'm enjoying the show more than you…..
This is turning into a total “Win-Win” situation for Argentina.....
1) We get rid of an anachronical symbol of the undeserved privileges of our Armed Farces.
2) We get rid of a ship that leeches the Argentinean State for some 15 million U$D a year. Do you know how many rural schools 15 U$D million would pay for in Argentina......? Many…….!
3) Internally, despite the best efforts of the “Grupo Clarin” this episode is educating us Argentineans about the true nature of the “International Financial System” and uniting us against its most nefarious effects and intentions.
4) Externally, this episode will show the rest of the world that Argentina in particular and South-America in general is not ruled by self-appointed administrators of Hedge Funds and Banks but by elected politicians with valid plans, ideas and aspirations for their respective Peoples and Countries.
5) I don't feel sad for the Captain of the Libertad...
Not at all…..
As a matter of fact; I do envy his position!
He has the historical chance of becoming the first Argentinean officer in AGES to do an honorable thing….....… Let's hope he grabs it...
I wouldn't hesitate a second.
Have a nice Sunday
El Think
In a surprise announcement, Timerman said there are no guarantees for seafarers, spoke of an international conspiracy and predicted that tomorrow will present the case to the Security Council of the UN'
www.lanacion.com.ar/1519271-fracasan-las-negociaciones-y-ordenan-evacuar-a-la-tripulacion-de-la-libertad
See how they wriggle!! like a worm on the end of a fishing hook!!
It would appear that in the eyes of KFC and laughing boy Timerman “Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others”
In the Argentina judiciary are there any impartial judges/magistrates?
He is a Ghanaian Law Lord.
Subject only to the Ghanaian Supreme Court, who rightly, only interest themselves on matters of the law itself, NOT the semantics of a case - that is what the judges do.
I know I am speaking a foreign message to AG, but they do need to grow up and stop behaving like drunken tarts on the international stage.
As a war plane, did have immunity? Yes it did. However America has not debt arrears, therefore no court injunctions for its assets to be seized.
Argentina's Assets, whether military or not are securities against their debts which they defaulted on or refuse to pay. Therefore they lose the right to immunity under international law. Just like people lose the right to keep their own home if they default on secured debts or refuse to pay.
Also as far as am aware Argentina has no state assets in the UK so nothing here that they can seize from Argentina.
Though i love how Timerman said the Ghana court acting on an injunction granted by the UK and made no mention of the fact it was an injunction granted in the US, not just the UK. So clearly a bit of spiteful finger pointing towards the UK as a ploy to further increase Argentine citizens hatred of the UK.
And as for the UN - Lol what planet is he on, as the UN does not interfere with another countries legal system when it is acting in accordance with international law and is a fair and just legal system.
Since you can't, I repeat, terrorism as on September 11 2001 and July 5 2007 is completely justified.
?
Whatever it's final amount, CFK will write out a check to get the ship back, but she'll cancel the check afterwards, right?
All you on this website state with glee that the Argentine people are responsible for the government's actions vis-a-vis the debt.
So why do you not understand that terrorism is a legitimate response to the actions of your governments towards the civilians of the middle east? Or did you think you are above the law?
@142 I think CFKC has to deposit the money before the ship is released. No cheques.
NML have offered to settle the port fees, I think. This is not about profit for NML, the 20m is a tiny amount of the debt owed. It is about forcing Argentine to take responsibility for the money it borrowed and make an effort to pay it back. It also sends a clear message that anything not nailed down outside of Argentina will be seized.
Probably nobody's answering your question because a) nobody ever did claim that debts are more immoral than war crimes b) it is a stupid question anyway and c) everybody knows it is just a typical troll attempt to divert attention away from the main point at issue, which is Argentina's attempt to convince the world that signing an agreement waiving sovereign immunity doesn't actually mean you've waived sovereign immunity.
Did you self-police?
Did you have others bring you to justice?
How do any of you suggest you pay the consequences as a people for the actios of your government?
Call it distraction, but it is the crux of the legal question that you all push with such élan. You all want the people of Argentina to bear the burden, and consequences or unpaid debt.
Why is it therefore such a problem for you all to then use the same logical argument and conclude that your war crimes in the middle east which your governments pursued, are to be redressed by you, the people?
Glib answers like@145 “no one is comparing debts to war crimes” do not suffice. None of you have been capable (either literally or consciously) to provide specifics as to why if this “moral ukase” applies to arrears (the people “pay” the price), it does not apply to what are even more abominable bellicose transgressions... or to elucidate why following this logic of retribution are terrorists not justified.
None of you have, because none of you can't without destroying your hateful attack line against Argentina viable. If you all argued that crimes commited by government with people's tax money is not transfearable morally to the populace, then much less could you argue that debts incurred by such a government should be beared by the people at their expense.
That is what it comes down to. You cant outwit my observation, and that's that.
But the unfortunate difficulty for you is that there is no relationship whatsoever between Argentina's legal obligations to its creditors and anybody else's (alleged) war crimes. Or in other words, the coalition invasion of Iraq no more absolves Argentina of its debts than the Mongol invasion of China.
Simple moral question. And it is this elegantly stated relashion which renders the postings of every SINGLE anti-argie here as abased hypocrisy.
No way around it.
Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
Ok then Lets talk about war crimes then shall? LIKE painting a red cross on ammo dumps, soldiers barracks and cook houses.
War crimes like leaving uncharted mine fields strewn all over the Falklands
War crimes like leaving hand grenades in the desks of SCHOOL CHILDREN!! are those the the war crimes you are on about?
As for the so called “war crimes” that the UK and US have suppostedly commited:-
www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/ArrestOfRoyalMarinesAnonymityOrder.htm
See? we take these things seriously you weapons grade idiot if they are found guilty then justice will be served.
But these were “crimes” done in “war” ( hence the name ) who in Argentina is going to speak out for the 30,000 people that were “Disappeared” by your government?
as for:- “You cant outwit my observation” PLEASE!!!! two planks of wood could outwit you and a goal post.
Jesus H. Christ, does your grasp of logic not even encompass cause and effect? The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan occurred AFTER the jihadist attack on the US.
(assuming they are true), painting red crosses on buildings, did that kill innocents?
Your link proves your pathetic lack of courage. As typical with anglo mentalities, you arrest the underlings but never the top brass. How many scandals have ocurred with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan? Yet the only ones ever to be held accountable are contemptible privates and perhaps some underperforming sargent they wanted to get rid of anway.
Never a commander, much less a vice-general, or a civilian politician.
You have no morals, just admit it.
Oh Giorgio, Giorgio, Giorgio!!!! More “projection” I see.............. just insert the word “Argentina” in that last post......show and tell again.
British officers die with great regularity as they are often deeply involved with their troops, politicians might get away with immunity but the men in the field suffer along with the rest of them! It would have been easy for Argentina to arrest their entire officer corps as they were still all alive and well.
TTT / Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos / Gaol Gook Riotous Is (his anagram)
Poor old TTT. He will never understand the British, even though we made AG number 7 in the world in the 1900s. And he will most certainly NEVER understand fighting for ones comrades of every rank.
Since then of course the bastard Peron and other morons and of course the prostitute and latterly the Peronista look alike light, The Kirchener Dynasty, have well and truly ensured that the poor stay that way whilst revering them as gods.
No one can help these poor, deluded fools.
(assuming they are true), painting red crosses on buildings, did that kill innocents?
What do you mean assuming they are true?
Ok so you have just shown complete lack of knowledge of the falklands war. I notice that, by the way, you didn't deny the one about the uncharted mine fields and the leaving hand grenades in the desks of school children.
Second, were any Argentine Generals, tried for those war crimes? Cause if the Argentine government “overlooked” them then they are, as you say just as hypocritical as you are
Third, why should I care about how many scandals have ocurred with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan?
and Finally..... You're showing us again through your outrage.... You yourself are angry with yourself at the failings and corruption in your own government. ...... I thought it was just you being a t-wat but now I see. You are angry at everyone because you are angry at your government but don't know how to properly express that anger.
I am here to tell you that it's ok. If you just admit to yourself that's what is going on in your head then we can get started with the healing process.
ARGENTINA IS THE WINNER!
The ship don't worth nothing!
You did? How? Haven't you disavowed and renounced all the evil the UK did during that time?
Or, let me guess, you once again try to have it both ways, take credit for the “good” (of which your mention of Argentina is not one of them, you had nothing to do with it), but then wash your hands of the bad as something comitted by your great-great-grandfather???
No you can't have it both ways.
Ha, ha, ha.
The British accept responsibility for all acts, whether good or bad. We don't try to rewrite history to suit our own needs, and we act upon crimes committed in the past by British Forces, even if those acts occurred nearly 60 years ago.
We don't believe that the British Empire was a completely good thing, but neither was it the completely evil thing that you try to make out.
The British, like all people, did bad things, but we also did good things. We don't pretend to be saints and if we disagree with out government, we'll bloody well let them know about it. In other words, we are not adverse to criticising our government.
You, however, Tobias constantly try to ignore the bad things Argentina has done in the past or try to blame someone else for them. For instance, you are always blaming Europeans despite the fact that Argentina committed the most bloody acts after independence from Spain.
You perceive any criticism of your government as a personal attack, and react with outrageous comments, some of them extremely racist.
Argentina, meaning the Government, needs to start accepting responsibility for everything that happens in Argentina. That does not relate to something necessarily being their fault, because blame and responsibility are two different things.
So, for instance, the government of Britain accepts responsibility for things that happened during the time of the British Empire, even though it was not their fault, as in they weren't born at the time.
So, when your government refuses to accept responsibility for the Falklands Invasion, it shows how childish they are. No one is saying it is their fault, but it is Argentina's responsibility.
The first step in accepting responsibility would be to apologise to the people of the Falklands, for the acts that the Military Junta did in the name of Argentina.
Until you do Argentina will not be respected by the international community, and hypocritical to slate Ghana when you refuse to take any.
Sell your pasteles or you will be beaten when you get home, stupid little cunt!
So if, by your own words ChrisR is “you are brit, thus not worth my time.” why do you continue to post on this forum?
Why do you “waste your time on here then?” This sounds like a cry for help. What is it son? Is it that you are not getting any attention at home and so the only way you can make yourself feel better is to go on line and insult and confront total strangers?
That's it isn't it? you haven't got any friends have you and your parents either don't lsten to you or don't understand. You can't relate to your peers and the only way you can reinforce you fragile ego is to make up lies and misinformation.
For you to say that and then to carry on posting on here why, you must so desperately need attention that to not have the internet must be like cutting an arm or a leg off.......
Ok then. Lets get started shall we? what is your favourite body of water and why?
www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/artikel.php?ID=253937
Of course, if TIT were a paid troll, that would account for all your questions of motive.
How else could he spend all day on here?
Why else would he have unwavering support for CFK, every action, every edict, every policy, no matter how untenable, and never, ever criticise his Peronist government?
Why else would he defend deflect distract deceive dismiss disinform every issue raised with Argentina, and do his best to discredit any party/people/ideology/principle/action, that does not support his gov't position?
TTT/ GOT etc. has no mind of his own, and is paid solely to refute and disrupt any debate or argument pro- US/UK, or anti- RG.
Additionally, he is paid for his groundwork sowing disinformation to undermine later arguments or deceive other readers of this site, and likely, others.
The danger is, If these false statements go unchallenged, other Internet users may accept them at face value, without the true story.
Naturally, most readers on here, know that by now, the ongoing war of propaganda and disinformation...
minus the 3 that are already laid up..
Weak tenuous link LOL !
Is that supposed to intimidate anyone???
Just as an exercise, how would you enforce that demand ???
We all want to hear that argument. :-)
We could tell you how to get it back,
Nah, that would be helping you guys,
Oh sod it, ok,,, but don’t tell anyone or we may get in trouble,
1, secretly approach Airfix industries,
2, make a scale modal replica,
3, sneak in at night and swap it over,
4, hey presto, by morning you will be long gone,
4, just hope no one notices at all ??
.
I like that you've demonstrated that you haven't left your borders.
A professional can reasonably expect to make $2,500 a month on arrival to the U.S.: Ar 14.000 pesos a month at light blue, more or less.
My Argentine-American roommate was making $5,000 a month at age 26 :) She got the job with her beautiful Castillano.
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