Brazil says all Mercosur leaders have to decide lifting Paraguay’s suspension
Brazil said it is hard to see Paraguay rejoining Mercosur and Unasur before next year’s presidential election. The two blocks suspended the landlocked country following the removal of Fernando Lugo last June and replacing him with President Federico Franco.
“Nothing indicates that South American presidents will make a decision on the issue, in the absence of facts that corroborate the full rule of democracy in Paraguay”, said Brazilian Foreign minister Antonio Patriota during a press round on Monday.
“Free and transparent elections are an essential element to confirm Paraguay is adhering to democratic practice”, added the minister.
Paraguay was suspended from Mercosur and Unasur following the removal of Lugo, impeached by an overwhelming majority in the Senate, but in a process which was not accepted by other South American countries since it was considered a democratic rupture of the democratic order.
Mercosur took advantage of the absence of Paraguay to vote the incorporation of Venezuela as full member, which was pending approval since 2006 from the Paraguayan Senate.
Patriota said there is no legal impediment to lift the suspension on Paraguay before April 2013 elections, although Mercosur and Unasur leaders will support such a decision on ‘facts’.
The Brazilian official underlined that South American countries will assess the compliance in Paraguay of democratic rule “even after the elections”.
“It is encouraging that the electoral calendar has been confirmed. But we will have to see how the process evolves”, indicated Patriota before meeting with the Unasur high level group specially created to follow the situation in Paraguay.
Mercosur is made up of Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay, plus Venezuela and Unasur all South American countries including Guyana and Suriname.
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Hugo Chavez
And he’s kittens.
Chuckled chucky.
.
A 'fact' is anything that Mercosur professes it it to be (OAS declarations are 'unsound').
'Full' rule of democracy is a South American mirage.
'Democratic practice' is anything that Mercosur professes it to be.
One thing is for sure, both 'facts and truth' and 'democracy' have little conformity in meanings across the Mercosur nations .... and in ALL member nations (including that of Sr. Patriota), both fall a lot short of best practice.
Weasel words, Patriota, weasel words.
You know, you could be right. You ARE right about TMBOA and the ‘government’ requiring ‘democracy’.
Line up the firing squads in Casa Rosada at once!
Ah? Do they have any cartridges for the fully automatic FALs, I suspect not.
Bayonets I think. LOLs
Would you be so kind to try to explain to me the difference between your comptatriots opinions expressed in here and the opinions of the Sharia Mullahs of London?
And sod international law,
After all, Argentina does it, and gets aways with it, ,
You should try it,
You say:
“Argentina continues with its blocking of our ocean route, Brazil does its military operations near our border, stifling commerce.”
I say:
Argentina continues controling contraband on our shared ocean route, Brazil does its military operations near their border, stifling smuggling.
Are you by any case involved in one of those noble activities?
On the other hand,
You could ask, if you could build a canal through other peoples lands to the sea.
,
After all, what have you to lose?
Try it,
She might say [yes]
.
Please try and write in cohesive English, NOT like an argie with all the ..... either in the sentence or at the end.
English users, as far as I am aware cannot use osmosis or the Mystic Meg approach of deducing what it is you are trying to say.
Having paragraphs to break the text up is also good! :o)
If you can't understand, don't blame the writer. I have no difficulties understanding the meaning of his post, and I can assure you he didn't intend to sign his post up for a competition in the usage of the English language. How is your spanish, old man? All dots and coma's?
As for Brazil, we have contraband because Brazil won't allow free trade to happen. Thus people come to Paraguay and buy stuff for very very cheap because there are no taxes and take it to Brazil to sell there. Allow the free trade to occur and the contraband will be gone.
I thought the purpose of MERCOSUR was free trade.
Everything you say is HOGWASH!
Your suggestions are lies, distortion of the truth and ought to be considered destabilizing.
I will add to what Think has said. The Argentine and Brazilian law enforcement that has been stepped up against illegal traffic of drugs, guns, and contraband is hurting Paraguay's movers an shakers. Therer is no interference with legal free trade.
Brazil’s attitude to this does give the impression of changing the rules as they go along to suit themselves.
They do seem to have an ulterior agenda here.
@18 ProRG_American
You don’t seriously expect anyone to believe that in a continent crisscrossed with long and completely porous borders, a blockade of Paraguay is the only way to stop gunrunning and drug trafficking.
They have neither the money to buy nor the means to produce these products. To suggest that Paraguay is on any smuggling route going anywhere is the hogwash.
Chavez is included, yes, and I agree with you, there is an ultimate agenda ;)
You are a Turnip
Worse yet, you are an Uninformed Turnip.
Paraguay has a population of about 6 million people.
Paraguay imports Cigarettes, Whisky, Cellphones, Laptops, Tv's, Photocameras, Kitchen Appliances, Diverse Electronics etc... etc... etc.... enough to satisfy the needs of a population of ~30 million people.......
EACH YEAR!
Where do you “Think” all that “excedent produce” ends?
Smuggled into Brazil and Argentina.
Not a nice thing to do, Paraguay.
www.americaeconomia.com/economia-mercados/comercio/argentina-impone-20-trabas-comerciales-paraguay-que-violan-los-tratados-d
www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/Mexico-va-a-la-OMC-por-las-trabas-argentinas-a-sus-autos-20121022-0099.html
www.taringa.net/posts/economia-negocios/10494695/Brasil-tomaria-represalias-por-las-trabas-exp_-de-Argentina.html
www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2012/8/22/trabas-argentina-enfrenta-japon-europa-eeuu-662288.asp
#21 - Think - But are these items not legal? What is wrong with Paraguay exporting these items to Brazil? What is wrong with Paraguay offering low priced items to Brazilian citizens? This way even the poor in Brazil can afford a few luxury items. I thought that this was something good and not bad, but please explain where I have gone wrong in my thought process.
Are you pulling my leg?
You want me to explain to you why Smuggling is illegal?
You are, by far, the greatest Turnip that I ever have encountered in here!
Let me, I got loads of time...
Bamf
It has something to to with taxes not being paid by the “importer”. It has something to do with the prices in the black market being lower than the prices of the ones that DO pay taxes to import. Finally, it has something to do with the difficulty of survival for the “legal” market because of not being competitive enough...
Now, why it is illegal is a different matter though, it just happens to say so in your book of laws...
In my book of laws, Paraguay, it says that there should be free trade. All the government of Brazil cares about is taxes so that they can fund their projects and get reelected. These trade restriction only hurt the poor because it is specifically the poor that then cannot afford these products. Things like air conditioners, cars, motorcylcles, washing machines are all luxury items for most Brazilians. Yet in Paraguay where there are low taxes and free open borders, even the peasant farmers can afford these things. The dude that mows my lawn owns a car. The cafeteria lady at my school owns a brand new car. My brazilian made car costs less here in Paraguay.
So the black market is just a sign that the population is unwilling to pay the exorbitant amount of taxes. They thus go to the black market instead. Take for example if taxes were raised 100% on Levi Jeans. It immediately becomes a luxury item, only purchased by the very rich. A black market will then open up to supply the demand that exists to the poorer people. This then makes the poor people criminals. Just like you can't stop the drug trade, you can't stop the black market. Governments need to stop their social engineering games and let people live their own lives.
I refuse to be a slave to the government, thus I live under a government that doesn't provide me with much of anything, yet will ask pretty much nothing of me. I've had to abandon both the USA and Brazil, my two home countries, because living there meant being part slave. The USA government has such a claim on me that they refuse to let me renounce my citizenship, thus claiming some 30-40% of what I produce anywhere in the world. This has gotten out of control.
Once upon a time there was an American with your same tax ideas in the USA.
He was a very popular man in his town…
He gave the people what they wanted…
His name was Alphonse Capone…
You are taking it to a whole new extreme. I have not killed anyone, I have not robbed anyone, I have not extorted anyone. The Paraguayans selling these products to Brazilians do nothing of the sort either. We sell our products to anyone that is willing to purchase them. The taxes that we pay are acceptable so we don't bitch about it too much.
As a socialist Think, please explain to me what is wrong with me wanting to simply keep the fruits of my labor. I don't want to give it to the government because the government missuses my money. They spend it on crap and I am not in agreement with it. Wars, welfare, poorly planned infrastructure all are not things that I find worthy of my money. So in general principal, not considering that the government has the power to take my money, is there anything wrong with me wanting to keep my money to myself, spend it or save it or burn it?
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... , you poor little cookie!
Are you giving me the Arms Salesman’s discourse now ?.....:
Arms don't kill people.....
People kill people....
Not my fault....
Please pay attention and at least try and keep up.
The issue was guns and drugs not cell phones laptops and cigarettes.
The point is all these LEGAL “Diverse Electronics etc... etc... etc....” arrive in Paraguay having crossed another country.
And so would ILLEGAL guns and drugs have to cross another country to get to Paraguay to be re-exported to Brazil and Argentina.
So is there any particular reason guns and drugs traffickers like to go via Paraguay, or are these trades legal in Paraguay.
If you cannot control what crosses your own borders that is your problem (Although you are not alone), and simply no excuse for blockading Paraguay’s legitimate exports.
Fraggle rock calling!
No sir....
You responded to ProRG's post (18) and the issue was (and is)....:
“Illegal traffic of drugs, guns, and CONTRABAND”
I quote....:
“ 18 ProRG I will add to what Think has said. The Argentine and Brazilian law enforcement that has been stepped up against illegal traffic of drugs, guns, and CONTRABAND.”
That you chose to misread and misinterpret the posts you answer to is your problem, not mine....
What a Turnip!
If Brazil wishes for its citizens to not purchase Paraguayan goods, then don't allow them to go to Paraguay to purchase Paraguayan goods. Paraguay only offers these goods because the Brazilians buy them. Stop buying them and Paraguay will stop selling them.
But it really is simply hopeless with you. You are a blind commie that only wishes to live off of the work of others. You don't contribute anything to this world. When you die, the world won't have been altered in any way by you. If anything it will be one less parasite that us producers will have to feed, clothes, house, educate, etc.
Yes, I am doing fine thank you: no tengo problema.
I responded to the issues of guns and drugs only, I never mentioned contraband, all countries try and control that.
Yet you dedicated your post @21 to something I had never mentioned.
I know English is not your first language, but as rule try and comment on something that someone has actually said. Rather than stating things that although may well be true, are totally f*cking irrelevant to what’s actually been said.
Try concentrating when you read things, or google translate.
Fraggle rock still calling.
And that's why I call you an “Uninformed Turnip”.
Because you, in your humongous ignorance, disregard the big issue and focus on small details......
Details, in which you also excel in your great ignorance.
Just one example....:
Paraguay has no Industry worth mentioning....
Paraguay imports, yearly ~20,000,000 liters of car battery acid.
Enough to fill some 60,000,000 car batteries......
“60,000,000”
And so what???......... You may ask.....
Well………
Car battery acid is also called Sulphuric Acid.....
A vital ingredient to the refining of Cocaine...
An ingredient heavily controlled and monitored in Colombia, Perú and Bolivia.......
What do you “Think” those 20,000,000 liters of Sulphuric Acid are used for?
What a Turnip!
Once again, you completely ignore the point at hand (blockading Paraguay’s legitimate exports), in favour of something that is not been mentioned never mind argued.
You completely ignore the difference between legitimate and illegitimate activities, hoping no one will notice the complete change of issue and subject.
Wrong.
Terry F*ckwit or Roger Irrelevant, take your pick.
P.S. Sulphuric acid has many industrial uses, and what are the restrictions in Brazil, which uses oceans of the stuff (I used to sell it).
Once again.......
NOBODY is blockading Paraguay's legitimate exports (be it soy, meat... whatever)
What is being “disturbed” as much as possible by Argentinean Customs are the humongous amounts of merchandise being imported TAXFREE into Paraguay through 1,500 km of our Paraná river.
Merchandise being imported with the sole purpose of being smuggled immediately into Brazil and Argentina.
These Paraguayan smuggling activities cost the Argentinean state hundreds of millions of dollars per year in lost duties and taxes....
These Paraguayan smuggling activities cost the Brazilian state billions of dollars per year in lost duties and taxes....
These Paraguayan smuggling activities have transformed the “Triple Border” area of Argentina, Paraguay and Brazil into a veritable Far West, where everybody is corrupt and the criminals are better equipped than the police.
Both, Brazil and Argentina are absolutely tired of the situation…..
As I’m tired of BritishTurnips like you that in their haughtiness and ignorance defend the indefensible just because South-America has an issue with the UK about some forsaken, stolen Islands in the South Atlantic.
Comprende?
So what you are saying is you can’t stop contraband going in or out across your territory, sound like if you could it would simply go another route, through those “long and completely porous borders”
And the “illegal drugs and guns”, you still haven’t explained why they go to Paraguay only to be re-exported.
How much of the lost hundreds of millions of dollars tax money, if collected, would go to the state in a place “where everybody is corrupt”?
You cannot just blame Paraguay if Argentina has lost control of territory inside its borders, they are only responsible for their side of the border.
Although in these situation co-operation by both sides of a border (or 3 sides) usually has the best results.
Oh I forgot, they are barely speaking to you, why is that. As yea sow, so shall ye reap.
The Islands are not forsaken, they belong to the Falklanders.
They weren’t stolen (Argentina tried twice and failed both times), they have been British since long before Argentina ever existed (call it 1816 or 1810 if you want), since before the Spanish tried (and also failed) to take them.
As the Antarctic was British territory long before Argentina (or whatever AKA used at the time) conquered Patagonia, never mind reach the Antarctic much less claim it
At best this is not much of a S American issue, only an Argentinian one. Don’t kid yourself anyone apart from Venezuela will help you. Some would probably help us, clandestinely of course.
Follow all that!
Argentinians really don't come to Paraguay much anymore, they simply can't afford things that are priced in dollars.
sounds like the Brits crossing the Channel to the other EU countries with lower taxes for cheaper goods before Christmas.
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