Crucial week for Argentina’s bonds’ dispute with ‘technical default’ fears looming
The Argentine government will appeal on Monday the New York federal court ruling from Thomas Griesa which orders the country to pay 1.3billion dollars to the investment funds which held out from the (2005 and 2010) restructuring of the 2002 defaulted sovereign debt.
The Argentine strategy will be to alert the court and the financial world of the dangers involved in the decision for the debt restructuring processes which have currently become quite common because of the critical moments many countries are going through with exceptionally high debt/GDP ratios.
The appeal will argue that the implementation of Judge Griesa decision puts at risk future sovereign debt restructuring processes globally and could have severe consequences for the functioning of the New York financial markets.
“If the decision remains and prospers (paying the investment funds 1.3bn) no country in the world could implement a successful debt restructure, such as Argentina’s, because no bond holders will accept a ‘hair cut’ when they could simply sit and wait for a favourable decision that enables to collect the full face value of the bond plus interests accrued.
Judge Griesa rejected an Argentine petition to freeze a previous decision from the same court which retained payment of the sovereign bonds to investors until several pending issues are solved while an appeal to a higher court was in process.
The ruling was a huge setback for Argentine President Cristina Fernandez, who calls the holdout funds “vultures” and has vowed never to pay them. It also dismayed investors who took part in the two debt swaps and fear Argentina will now enter into “technical default” on about 24 billion in restructured debt. About 93% of bondholders agreed in 2005 and 2010 to swap defaulted debt from the 2002 default for new paper at a steep discount.
Cristina Fernandez's decision to vilify holdouts makes payment a difficult prospect, and a local law prohibits offering a better deal than that given in the swaps. Doing so might expose Argentina to lawsuits from creditors who tendered their paper.
On the other hand, another default - albeit a technical default - would tarnish Cristina Fernandez's record on managing the economy, deepen Argentina's isolation from global financial markets and hit investment at a time of sluggish growth.
The Argentine government is due to pay exchange bondholders at least 3.3 billion dollars in principal and interest in December. But if Judge Griesa's demand for payment of the 1.3bn into an escrow account for holdouts is upheld by an appeals court and Argentina still refuses to pay, US courts could embargo payments to the creditors who accepted the debt restructurings.
Argentine Economy minister Hernan Lorenzino and member of the negotiating team called the latest Griesa ruling: “a kind of judicial colonialism”.
”The only thing left is for Griesa to order them to send in the (US Navy's) Fifth Fleet,” Lorenzino told reporters, outlining Argentina's plans to file an appeal against with the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York on Monday.
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future bonds will not have pari-passu and renunciation of immunity. these are the points arg has agreed in because they needed money. now they have to fullfill it.
crooks!
No doubt they will default and simply stop paying all bonds, then 'use' *cough* line their own pockets *cough* the billions they hoarded to attempt at becoming self sufficiant so she can in some way further her own dictorial hopes and become the new North Korea! Not that that would work in any way of course.
This was the humor ....right? Tarnish her record?
I did wonder about that. It's not like she had a glowing record of economic probity.
2. If the decision DOES NOT remain and prosper (paying the investment funds 1.3bn) no country in the world will pay it's bills.
What an absolute load of nonsense! The world does not turn around Argentina. If they crash and burn the rest of world will carry on its merry way. The agrogance of CFK is staggering.
You are right.That is exactly what is being tested here.
If there is a need to bailout a country,there is a need to bailout a country.No sensible person could deny that Argentina needed a bailout and so the story stands.
There are two choice primarily,don't lend or lend sensibly.And so there is two consequences.Argentina shouldn't have borrowed or others shouldn't have lent.In the micro world of lending its the lenders who need to look after their money.What is different here?Answer is that right wing republicans are involved.It isn't about global trade it's about financial interests in one country.
Povide me the “proof” that Right (redundant don't you think?) Republicans are involved....please via an objective source......not wiki or utube. Face.....the mad cunt of argentina is incapable of following any law other than that she makes as she goes.
It has nothing to do with colonialism or the right wing republicans !
93% of the bond holders agreed to the to the terms offered, 7% did not agree.
The fact that the 7% chose to holdout for the full amount owed is totally within their rights and does not wipe out this debt as Argentina would like the world to believe.
Argentina believe that by adding a clause to their constitution that they will not pay the holdouts is enough for it to become international law - wrong!!.
(Its a bit like their adding the Falkland Islands/Malvinas belong to Argentina to their constitution means that it becomes a fact and over rides any international ruling on the Islands in the future)
I understand where you are trying to swing this,.. but I didn't say anything about Republicans, etc.
The more I hear about the Argentine Constitution the more I realise it is an expedient constantly rewritten worthless bit of tat written on the back of a serviette.
(assuming this latest news is true)
www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-argentina-20121109,0,2276661.story
“93% of the bond holders agreed to the to the terms offered, 7% did not agree.”
Those figures are always used as a propaganda weapon (poor argument, no legal sense in that) by RGs (and their buddies) but I recommend to look a bit deeper into them ;-)
1) Those figures are UNILATERAL: who knows the name(s) of the independent auditor(s) who checked, them please pass it(them) to me. I cannot give any evidence of explicit fraud with those percentages but the Argentine goverment is a habitual liar so I have some good reason to be suspicious.
2) AMONG FOREIGN bondholders (all classes fo them included... institutionals ... individuals) the percentage of Tangobond actually tendered in the two swaps is MUCH LESS THAN 92% (or 93%, depending on RG sources).
I don't have my sources at hand right now but I remember that about HALF of the the foreign law bonds [Tangobonds] tendered in the 2005 swap came from Argentine holders!! And most of them were institutional Argentine owners, banks, insurances, pension funds (many of them state owned or controlled institutions): the HAD to exchange, or received compensations (not available to foreigners: again UNFAIR business)! And I could write something also about the “exitoso” 2010 swap!;-)
Of course Argentine propaganda is careful in avoiding these points.
In general, I agree with your post.
www.argentinaindependent.com/currentaffairs/newsfromargentina/partisan-school-play-sparks-criticism/
....suddenly the Argentine government believes indoctrinating children is bad and calls in social services to look into the parenting.
This sort of thing has been going on for a long time. It starts with La Campora in kindergarten.
Sucicidal pied piper leading her malvista rats over the cliff, while the world laughs.
Code of Governance Part A, Article 2, section 34, paragraph 7, sub-section I, line 1(b), 12.1 reference 1:
“As ordained by the immanent and indefeasible powers of the popular democratic process under which the public servants of the Republic swear to faithfully engage office, and hitherto implicitly sovereign to this Article, it is thus accorded, expected, and required under penalty of official and legal inquiry of percontation and interrogation by peers, that he/she elected by the procedures outlined and in sections 7-31 wherewith such authority is bestowed to the elected by the republican and provincial assemblies through the desires of the electee, that the holder of the office of President of the Republic of the Argentine Federation of provinces fulfill a 4 year term, and so protecting the integrity of the republic by providing a seamless quilt of governance resistant to the whims of rapid social development, of the fomented mob, or anent pretensions engendered by political rivalry, competition, or animus.”
Something you loser brits will never understand. You claim to be against the Iraq war and Blair, and the spending, yet you re-elected him 3 times!
You are pathetic for calling an entire nation stupid,but given the above, is ther any doubts remaining you are the dumbest people on Earth? That are the most wicked because you re-elected someone that acted just like Hitler. War of agression.
Why would Argentina change? The IMF, the USA, the UK, the EU, Mercosur, China... you all are impotent and powerless. That's why we just keep behaving with no change over 10 years the same way.
Not our fault you are impotent.
well argentina claims to be an democracy, and bends to the whim of its people, and Crustina claims the country is united, so either she is lying and suppressing her people or argentina speak as one voice through Crustina , which is it?
ok the entire world is stupid except you and argentina, is that what you wanted to hear el dictator?
hear this...SELF DETERMINATION! Anglo-saxon rules! :)))))
1- Using the controversial Media Law to decimate the opposition media and favour state-run and pro-government broadcasters.
2-She has a deaf ear to the voices of a substantial segment of the middle class
3-She restricted international trade
4-She all but outlawed the international trade unit, the U$ dollars
5-She violated contracts
6-She pumped out phony data (Indec) to disguise the soaring inflation her policies brought about
There is so much more to the things she has done to make Argentina a laughing stock of the world, a regular armpit without deodorant. Now she is running on the premise that forcing her to honor contracts that argentina signed is tantamount to surrendering soverignty. Argentina will continue to sink into the abyss of the world's no bodies. The people of Argentina should upset by the fact that she is turning Argentina into Venezuela at an increasingly and alarmingly faster rate.
CAN YOU SAY ARGENZUELA?
And with is resplendent example of Anglo-saxon logic, I rest my case on the anglo-saxons.
Lesson of the day: in the modern world, either nations are 100% behind the leader, or 100% against the leader (and being thus oppressed).
I suggest you go dissolve your precious parliament immediately, a huge dissipation of your resources. Since 100% of Brits agree or disagree with Cameron (that's they only way of the world), can anyone explain to me what has this body served as a purpose in the last numpty years? lol
Lesson of the day. Iraq and Hussein, Libya and Gaddafi....the list is endless. So you are saying that because 100% of the people not being against a leader makes them not oppressed?
Have you seen the trade figures lately titti boi? Where is it in argentina that you live again?
To use the word “oppressed” to describe Argentina is an insult to Libyans and Iraquis, ever thought of that????
2nd, it was PirateLove that said that either 100% are for a leader, or 100% are against them. Ask him therefore why do congresses and parliaments exist them.
What I am discovering here is that anglo-saxons believe that a country is 100% for or 100% against a leader (not even 99% is mathematically possible), and that leaders should do whatever people say when they protest.
That is “democracy” for you guys. Well, then I still am waiting to see why you still have legislatures with percentual representation, and why is it that when people protested against the war, the war went on.
SELF DETERMINATION, :))))
This is a second polite notice.
Horse manure limit exceeded.
Destruction imminent.
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..
.
This coming from you? Who is impersonating someone else? Luscious hypocrisy once again.
Don't make my arguments so easy!
@29 Wait and see. You are close to the point where every argie asset outside your borders will be seized. Not by courts but by governments.
@33 All the evidence shows that TMBOA has the support of around 25% of the numpties of argieland. A little short of 100%, don't you think?
@35 Pirate Love didn't say that. YOU did. I've gone back over every one of his comments. Brain gone, has it? If you ever had one.
I have it on good word that if other countries begin to seize argentine assets under the auspices of a court ruling, Argentina will begin seizing assets of those countries (private or public) within Argentina.
I think you will find this game overwhelmingly benefits us. Britain seizes some argie cultural asset in the UK worth 1 million? We take over some gas consortium, probably at least 500m to 1 billion.
And we also keep all our money since at that point all debts to the entire planet will be renounced by Argentina, never to be paid again (few billion there).
Win-win-win for Argentina.
i never said such thing did I?, oops misinformation right there
actual quote
“so either she is lying and suppressing her people or argentina speak as one voice through Crustina , which is it?”
mis-quoted me, im glad to say thats not an anglo-saxon trait :)))
but i forgive you,try not to do it again, as like you said IQs could drop :)))
SELF-DETERMINATION!
What's the point of all that? A big sulk just because they won't give you their land?
SELF-DETERMINATION, A Human Right, not an argentine punchbag!
Problem is you did.
Anyway, let the rest of the world continue with their grandstanding. Short of invading Argentina or setting up a 3000km naval blockade, nothing they can do to force Argentina to pay.
As stupid as cuntina “the asslips” kirchner is, she will not drink the hemlock. Asslips already personalized politics and headed dow the slippery sloop. And never use the word “good” in the same sentence with argentina. You are:
*too stupid
*under educated
*insignificant
too now and advance news of what “spur of the moment” national policy ass breath will create now that she is dealing with defaults.
If the UK was so so impotent then a teeny tiny Type 45 destroyer (granted the worlds tallest war ship) wouldn't be an issue, neither would a pants, rubbish, impotent Astute submarine RUMOURED to be in the area. But no, RGs sulk and cry because they are scared of our 'impotent' armed forces! Something least we not forget your own defence minister has most recently admitted about it's own armed forces!
Maybe... Just maybe... The world couldn't give a chuff what the Argentinian government thinks...Maybe... Just maybe... The world like #44 cannot be bothered commenting or acting upon the incessent whining that comes out of this country.
I doubt NML really care about being paid. The guy has his own little anti RG thing going. He only wants to screw the RGs over. And it's certainly working.
RGland is getting what it wants - isolation. Thats for one reason - because the world wants it. Impotence indeed.
That's exactly what they will do, just as for the last 10 years they have been impotent to force Argentina to pay the vultures. Simple as that.
@50
So the world doesn't give a chuff about Argentina's government.
And Lepricon was all insistent on the fact the the UK respects other countries.
Oh well. Another British lie disproven by another British.
This is fun.
Why not look at that huge country your insane President is driving into the ground and try to actually use what you have. A country full of natural resources that could give every Argentine a good life. But that would take hard work and a large proportion of Argentines would rather sit on their arses and dream of a mythical island. It is a fairy story you were fed as a child. Grow up.
The world needs to be fed and we can potentially feed 800 million (up from 450 now). Hunger makes funny things happen... like have 95% of the nations of the world forget entirely about siding with a billionaire vs siding with a country that can provide cheaper food for their restless citizens.
And who are we impersonating?
If you were TTT or tobias, would not you post under those aliases?
If not, why not?
Deactivation sequence initiated.
...
..
.
Because I repected a request by Xect (that he now does not admit), when he asked Tobias to go to exile by not using two screenames.
I keep my word.
You on the other hand, break the forum's rules by impersonating others. I respect the rules as an argentine, you don't as an anglo-saxon. Par for the course.
If that were true it would explain the absence of tobias, but not me.
Illogical, troll.
titti boi as yfor your ttt post, your brain lacks cerebellum folds
You look so pathetic acting like a claque. Really I'm embarrassed for you and the impersonators... it just confirms the great legacy of those stellified sages of discernment and probity to the truth.
Why do you flatter me so?
Cease to worship me.
I am just a troll. I have always been a troll and nothing more.
A humble troll, trolling. No legacy.
I wish nothing so grand.
You're the same person, and are taking up too much space with your anti European comments. Use 1 account from now on, or you'll likely to be banned. Guarantee.
Oh, and all Scots vote 'YES' in 2014 to rewrite a new path in history.
“But I won't be banned”
Oh but you will.
I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows (UTC), you will disown me three times! My father in indignant rage will heap wrath upon you and dismiss you to the Gulag with Arifu Gobakuwі.
I bet its captain pooper himself, pretending its not him by then saying it is me using the multiple nicks.
In relation to the quotation of the Argentine constitution, the big difference between the British and Argentine systems is one is a presidential system and the other is a parliamentary system. One has term limits, the other does not. Also in addition to this, Cristina has openly toyed with the idea of turning Argentina in to a parliamentary system so the leader of the executive, the Prime Minister would not be bound to term limits as she is now. Finally, her supporters have been widely considering a motion to extend term limits.
Furthermore in relation to this quote
”Lesson of the day: in the modern world, either nations are 100% behind the leader, or 100% against the leader (and being thus oppressed).”
This is not true. The Danish prime minister is not reviled by the liberals nor am I as an Irishman adamantly for or against my Taoiseach (Prime Minister). Yes there is increased polarization in modern politics but it is not as steel-made as people think and a lot has to do with the polarization and manipulation of media in many societies in the modern world due to the loss of influence caused by the issue of the internet.
Finally in relation to the issue of Argentina and bonds. CFK and her government were utterly stupid to think ideology would win in this respect. Going in blindly and viscerally attacking their opponents and sneering at the court itself was utterly stupid. They went in like a spoilt child and got a slap by the courts and now it is arguing the case from a more pragmatic standpoint. I hope it works for Argentina because they should not have to pay the debts of holder outs. But don't go in acting all holier than thou and sneering at everyone and expect to win that way.
#6 Why? She already knows how gorgeous she is =) Lovely picture btw =)
1, why punish us for a decision you have made,
2, its not our fault
3, if you do this, we will do that, and blame you,
4, others will default because of your decisions,
5, you must decide in our favour, or you decision will be wrong.
6, be warmed the people will suffer, and it will be your fault
7, everybody hates us,
8, we aint done nothing wrong, we were forced to take the money
9, hey, no one told us, WE had to pay it back10, [and last]
We will just ignore you, and refuse to pay it, blab la,
.
NOT stupid, not at all.... its politically angled so that US politicians can be leveraged over econmic fears that may, or may not, ahve any tangible qualities to them.
But it IS something that will be wanted to be taken into account by the judge(s) by the politicians.
And do NOT be surprised if it takes root and wins part of the appeal.
----------
“”“”You on the other hand, break the forum's rules by impersonating others. I respect the rules as an argentine, you don't as an anglo-saxon. Par for the course.“”“”“”“””
Should I point out that your sentence quoted above breaks the forum rules????
(Or would that be a bit embarrassing for you? )
oh come on... if GuzzTrolldamus can get hauled-up for the use of ethnicity and nationality as the basis for attack that break forum rules then so can you... quit with the whole ”all you argentines” bullshit pls.
My wife a Portena would not be to pleased if she thought I felt that way to Argentines in general. My intent is not to insult the average, good Argentine.....others might, but I do not.
“I tell you the truth” ha??? No you don't!!!
You are not a Troll, you are Clown!!!!
Oh, by the way, I am loving the way you pointedly ignore The Welsh Wizard at 16, because he IS tell the truth AND he knows more than you!!!
But that's what you clowns / trolls do isn't it? Ignore the facts when they get a little too inconvienent and run from a poster who is better informed and knows more than you do.
ha......................Clown
If it's ok with you, I shall be using his full name “tito the clown troll” in future as Tito sounds much too much like a term of endearment....... and we wouldn't want that now would we?
Lol you want to bet your life savings on that, why not ask Guzz his opinion as he only used one account too. Oh thats right you can't ask him can you? As he got banned for trolling!!!
1 On the phone to his ISP demanding to cancel his contract but refusing to pay the early termination fees!
or,
2 - Working his nuts off doing all the paperrounds going so he can afford to replace the PC he broke in a fit of raged when he was banned.
Though he could well be doing both actually lol!
I was thinking they stuck a USB up his anus and were downloading new software that is easier to reprogram.
I geuss they never read the instructions firsts and throw out the lube lol
Bring on the Red Card so we can wish Argentina a happy Christmas.
I see,in true imperialistic ways,you are redefining words and language to adapt to your prejudice view of Argentinians.But you are quick to jump to some one who mentions Anglo-Saxon.So you don't want to be associated with Anglo-Saxons even though you have a King Charles spaniel.
Is it your thirteenth birthday soon.
yeah whatever yulena.....you're getting old like badly worn underwear.
www.buenosairesherald.com/article/117937/falkland-oil-and-gas-loses-half-its-value-on-malvinas-disappointing-results
What Next?
Judge Greisas Ruling overturned by appeal?
ARA Libertad is freed from captivity?
Grain Prices Soar?
New Major oil discovery in patagonia?
World Bank says Argentina rduced its poverty by 50%?
World Bank says Argentine middle class the fastest growing in the region?
Argentina pays it's cooperative bond holders on time?
Cristina's chances for reelection suddenly skyrocket?
HOOOoooooo! Shrugging shoulders......It gives me chiiiils all over my body.
www.kfvs12.com/story/20185295/argentina-hopes-to-reverse-ny-debt-ruling
Any news on Yasser Arafat.Is he still alive?
Arafat is definitely dead, a little pungent also.
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