EU tells PM Cameron that ‘cherry picking” and “a la carte” membership is not on the table
Germany and France have warned UK Prime Minister David Cameron that Britain cannot pick and choose EU membership terms after he pledged a referendum. PM Cameron said a poll would be held if the Conservatives were returned to power at the next general election, which is expected in 2015.
Voters would be asked to choose between renegotiated membership and exiting. But Germany said the UK could not “cherry-pick” while France said “a la carte” membership was not on the table.
However, in an apparent concession to Cameron's concerns, German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for a “fair compromise” between the wishes of Britain and other EU states.
BBC Europe editor Gavin Hewitt says that Mrs Merkel is, as usual, being cautious. She wants to explore ways of keeping Britain in Europe but ultimately she is committed to more Europe not less Europe.
In Washington, the White House welcomed Cameron's “call to remain in the EU”, saying it believed that the UK was stronger as a result of its EU membership.
In a long awaited speech Cameron said the referendum would be a decision on the UK's “destiny” and, if he secured a new relationship he was happy with, he would campaign “heart and soul” to stay within the EU. But he did not spell out what powers he would like to see the UK take back as part of a new settlement, or what would happen if the negotiations did not go his way.
PM Cameron argued that “disillusionment” with the EU was “at an all-time high” and “simply asking the British people to carry on accepting a European settlement over which they have had little choice” was likely to accelerate calls for the UK to leave.
“That is why I am in favour of a referendum,” he said. “I believe in confronting this issue - shaping it, leading the debate. Not simply hoping a difficult situation will go away.”
Mr Cameron said he believed Britain's national interest was “best served in a flexible, adaptable and open European Union and that such a European Union is best with Britain in it”.
The many Euro-sceptics in Cameron's Conservative Party will be pleased he is offering the referendum although some will regard the timescale as tardy, BBC political correspondent Iain Watson reports.
Reaction to Mr Cameron's long-awaited speech in London came swiftly.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said a future for the UK outside the EU could be “dangerous”.
“We want the British to be able to bring all their positive characteristics to Europe... but you can't do Europe a la carte,” he told French radio. “Imagine Europe is a football club and you join, but once you're in it you can't say, 'Let's play rugby'.”
French President Francois Hollande was clear about his desire to see the UK remain an EU member, his spokeswoman Najat Vallaud-Belkacem said. “[But] being a member of the European Union involves obligations,” she added.
An online poll in France's centre-right newspaper Le Figaro suggested many French people would be happy to see Britain leave. With more than 15,500 votes cast, 70% favoured the UK leaving over 30% who disagreed.
PM Cameron's name was trending among French users of Twitter as of Wednesday afternoon.
While it appeared not to rank high among German tweeters, a phone poll by German broadcaster n-TV on whether Britain should leave the EU found 80% of viewers in favour of exit, to 20% who disagreed.
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle called for the UK to “remain an active and constructive” part of the EU. He said: “We need a new commitment to the principle of subsidiarity.
”Not all and everything must be decided in Brussels and by Brussels.“
However, the answer to the Union's economic troubles, Mr Westerwelle argued, was ”more integration“, not less. ”But cherry-picking is not an option,“ he added.
His opinion was echoed by Austrian Foreign Minister Michael Spindelegger, who said the EU could only succeed economically ”if you pull together in the same direction“.
Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt was unimpressed with PM Cameron's speech, arguing that ”a flexible Europe“ already existed and Denmark - with its own EU opt-outs - was a good example.
Europe should not be a ”help-yourself table”, Politiken newspaper quoted her as saying.
The response from most European capitals is clear, the BBC's Chris Morris reports from Brussels - we don't want Britain to leave, but when you join a club, you have to abide by the rules.
But when David Cameron speaks of an EU as something done to people rather than acting on their behalf, that will certainly strike a chord with those who have protested in Athens or Madrid against policies over which they feel they have little control, he adds.
If the British referendum does go ahead, it will be held by the end of 2017 at the latest. (BBC).-
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But you can cherry-pick your FREE TRADE options.
Britain outside of the EU will make both the EU and UK stronger. The EU had a chance to make a flexible confederal union but have chosen a centralised union instead.
The EU is a grand and ambitious project that is being emulated everywhere (including SA) but that does not mean it is perfect. The UK is one of the world's largest economies and shares a head of state, culture, legal system and economic outlook with 15 other sovereign countries as a Commonwealth Realm.
The Commonwealth Realm would be the world's second largest country spanning nearly every timezone, with a population the size of Russia's and an economy the size of Japan's.
I'm sure the EU would happily let such a large and rich union cherry-pick an agreement on trade.
at that time the eu was still in its infacy and accepted. but that´s over. of course the eu must become better and better but not with “specials” for this or that country. WHY? the uk has specials enough already.
each eu country has to make efforts and proposals to reach that goal. How many years needed the us to become what they are? and under what conditions? we go step by step and if uk wants to step aside for a while, why not? no problem, except for some moneymakers of the “city”. i´m sure, they are back within short.
We signed up to an economic union, not a federal union state.
All this talk about football clubs etc is just simplistic nonsense. Britain gets a bad deal from the EU and there is no reason why the EU cannot be associative other than because it goes against the vision for Europe of those who pull the levers.
The reason they are pushing for more and closer union at the moment is because the euro currency failed abysmally and it's the only way they can see to fix it without Germany making cash transfers to poorer regions.
Expect lots of use of the word “dangerous” from our EU “partners” to try and scare people out of making sound choices.
What we want is to leave the viperous alliance of the EU NOW!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association
most of the eu members are pretty tired of the uk tirades, no matter what angela says: she´s too polite to say what she thinks.
We had a Commonwealth trade zone up to the 1960's. It was called Commonwealth preference and applicable for duty purposes on goods produced in the Commonwealth countries.
We effectively “dumped them ” when we joined the EU
In that era, Australia and New Zealand were populated mainly by immigrant “Poms” who had some link back to the UK.
Now the populations are made up from more diverse ethnic groups who have no particular feelings about the UK. The ties with the “mother country” are nowhere as strong as they used to be.
It is very doubtful if they would want such a customs union.
If we left the EU and still wished to trade with them, then our goods would have to conform to their rules and regulations and we would have no vote or input in this matter.
The subject is a total minefield. The gut reaction is that they should have no right to tell us what to do but do we have any right to tell them?
We keep harping on about our sovereignty and how it is being diminished. France is even more nationalistic than us but they seem to be able to manage.
I am being a Devil's Advocate here !
......just as the other 90% of the world has to - it's no big deal. Plus as all the trade rules have already been agreed it won't really make much difference until the jet-pac or the self sharpening pencil comes on to the market.
Bottom line economics - money always goes where it gets the best deal and we have a massive trades defecit with the EU so they have more incentive to continue trading with us as than we do with them.
Neither in or out will entail a doomsday scenario - it's simply a choice to make on the future we want.
For far too long, we have not been given the information to make an informed choice about our place in the EU and how things are affected. Many deals have been signed over the years without the relevant information being released, nor consultation about those deals. John Major signing the Maastricht treaty was out of order in the way it was conducted.
I think ultimately, the UK parliament have an awful lot of blame for the current situation, with them not having the guts to clearly spell out both what we put in and what we get out of being a member of the EU. Rather than tell it like it is, a mish mash of conflicting signals come from them and it only obfusticates the issues. Just as now Cameron is floating the idea of a referendum, without anyone telling us exactly what would be gained by leaving and what would be lost, the news media simply report their own views so they don't help, and it seems impossible to find out, in clear terms, just what the hell membership of the EU is all about.
“Switzerland seems to manage quite fine outside of the EU. I wonder what deal they have got set up for trading with Europe?”
They did it via EFTA - see link in my earlier post.
If UK left EU, and rejoined EFTA it would have access to same market.
@10 willi1
“the majority shall win if out or in.”
UK is 4th largest net contibutor in absolute terms to EU Budget.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union
So EU will be the loser, should UK leave.
Of course I said all along that most in Germany, France, and Italy can't stand the UK, because of this completely unwarranted DIVA complex. They already have special concessions, they are not part of the EURO.
Obviously what the Brits want is to leave the EU in terms of all regulations, 0bligations, and dues, but keep the free trade, and heck who knows still get some of the benefits for backcountry England, and for Wales!
Geez, how were the Brits wrong and I was right?? Maybe the fact I actually watch and UNDERSTAND French, German, and Italian television helps... just a thought.
hahahahahaha
@2
No one gives a shit about the Commonwealth. If you actually learned another language, you would find out almost no one even knows this entity exists.
more of your typical uneducated rubbish.
“Obviously what the Brits want is to leave the EU in terms of all regulations, 0bligations, and dues, but keep the free trade, and heck who knows still get some of the benefits for backcountry England, and for Wales!” (what's a backcountry ?)
The UK is is one of the largest net contributors to the EU, so on that basis alone your above is wrong, also the UK imports more from the EU than it exports to them.
By the way Scotland is still part of the UK and latest polls show only 23% of Scotland in favour of independence.
The fact that we do not use the Euro is not a concession.
“No one gives a shit about the Commonwealth.”
Again utter rubbish with no proof other than your ego.
The fact that you can read these other languages is no proof of your understanding what is written.
What I meant about the commonwealth is that people that don't speak English don't know it exists. You need to promote more or something.
And again, as I said in another thread, Brits talk about their big net contributions to the EU, but forget 40% of their export-income comes from the EU! Check the thread about the Brazilian agression against Argentina, I posted the numbers there.
There is no way you can make up for the massive drop in trade that losing free-trade preference will bring. Italy is the 6th top partner of yours (behin Germany, France, Netherlands, Ireland, Belgium), and still they consume more of your goods than China, or any commonwealth nation... and these EU countries make up 40% of your exports.
www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports
Continue to live in lalaland about how the UK leaving will destroy the EU and boost the UK. hahahaha.
because it would not suit his argument!
And 90% of the world has never heard of Argentina, and if they have they only know you don't pay your bills and keep on bleating that you want something you have never had: the Falklands (there are STILL no Malvinas you prats).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
@20 Tobias Italy, Germany etc would still continue to buy our exports regardless, since we'll probably join the EEA, or the EFTA. And hey, I'd say more of the world has heard about the Commonwealth than Argentina, simply due to the fact that many of the major nations are a part of it.
because uk doesn´t have but needs the goods in good quality and good pricing and good conditions.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9822108/Scottish-independence-support-slumps-to-23-per-cent.html
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/24/scots-cold-feet-independence
news.sky.com/story/1042293/argentina-superhero-menganno-is-an-ex-cop
He's not a current account he's a superhero!
Cameron will do only what is required,
1, he may not win the next election
2, he may not even be prime minister,
3, he may even renegade of his promise,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We are better out than in,
It seems only the [some] rich , powerful , and Corrupt MPs, want us in,
We can argue all day, and all night,
Every day EU directives come down and are implemented,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Your opinion,,, my opinion,
So I will say this,,
1, we joined a trading block, not a united states of Europe,
2,
There is nothing, but nothing, that Europe can give the British people,
That the British government cannot,
And If the British government, cannot ,, or will not,
Give it to us,
Then there is something very seriously wrong with our government.
…………….
.
“What I meant about the commonwealth is that people that don't speak English don't know it exists. You need to promote more or something. ”
For someone who is pedantic, you really need to look up the difference between the COMMONWEALTH OF NATIONS and the COMMONWEALTH REALMS.
I'm talking about the latter not the former. See why you keep proving me right!
As for no one knowing the Commonwealth of Nations exists, the 2 billion people in the 54 member countries do. Either way what does it matter. This isn't a popularity contest, the Commonwealth fulfills a role whether or not it is well known. Pathetic argument.
And the Commonwealth Realms don't care if they are not well known. It's hard for uneducated people to get their head around a shared head of state. So many countries are used to their head of state being dishonest and criminal that they'd love a head of state that is neither (cue rant about the evil Queen and empire).
There's a reason Australia is so much richer than Argentina and attracts so much more investment and immigration. We don't have military juntas and don't have populist presidents..... if only Argentina could say the same.
And you know nothing about economics, so it's quite funny that you think all trade will almost cease upon withdrawal. Again you can't argue. The EU is not an autarky which is your favoured form of existence.
The EU is pragmatic and not some bitter teenager. The UK is not going to destroy the EU by leaving and it doesn't want to.
Wow you really need to get out more and live. You are just so naïve it is almost cute.
Also I see the thesaurus is gathering dust and the spelling mistakes are multiplying. Seems your “furlough” had the opposite effect to a normal person.
I expect to see more rants building up during the day as you argue yourself into a corner and then appeal to moderation.
................................................Clown............................
Federalisation. NO.
Simples!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you exit the EU so we can save to read all this stuff again, gain and again?
I guess everyone will be very happy wit Britain exit of the EU...
[we will]
I will be very happy wit Britain exit of the EU
[thank you ]
Because I'm planning to give a party...
Sorry but people in pyjamas will not be allowed. Just house rules, nothing personal.
You seem to be fixated about Muslims. So, a chunk of the German population - (3.5 million) - will not get invited to your “party”
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2566/turks-germany-guests-take-over-house
Sorry...
OK, HOW ABOUT THIS !
The quoted Turkish population in Germany is....3.5 million - all Muslims. This is even bigger than the UK Muslim population.
Also, according to a GERMAN website Donar Kebabs are now Germans favourite food.
There must be a big demand for pyjamas in Deutschland !!!
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/at-home-in-a-foreign-country-german-turks-struggle-to-find-their-identity-a-795299.
htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany
There are just some pirates kebab eater and in pyjamas close in a little Islands but the water keeps them far way at the moment...
Wow, you have just convinced me that the Falklands are a paradise.
The climate is SO mild that the inhabitants can go around outside in their pyjamas !
What do the large Muslim population in ARGENTINA wear ?
According to the article below - from an Argentinian source -Argentina has the largest Muslim population in South America.
Your President has spoken in favour of Muslim women wearing the Hajib
www.argentinaindependent.com/tag/muslim-argentina/
www.muslimpopulation.com/America/Argentina/Video.php
Still spouting your racist crap without bothering to check the facts - again, this was a tendency your nazi forebears seemed to have exported to Argentina-or some of its citizens.
Maybe someone in the Falklands could tell us how many “Muslims” wearing pyjamas can be seen in Stanley
Oh! More crappy information from Angola saxson source.
Hey idiot
What food and pyjamas have to do with religion?
Can you explain that to us living in west please?
Have you ever eaten kebabs?
Sure everybody does in UK.
Have you ever worn Pyjamas, sure everybody does in UK.
Are you Muslim for doing so?
I guest not.
Agies eat beef, right and mostly 90% are catholic right?
So when you make reference to “argies beef” that turns you into of anti white, catholic extremist from Ukistan?
I guess not because argies eats beef, make asados and are most Catholics or alcoholics or something like that ???.
Now about your crappies sources of information...
According with all crappy information posted by AS sources.
Argentina has 3 million Mapuches, 3 million Blacks, 1.2 Muslims and 50% are Amerindian right?
Can you tell please where are they? Because must be very well hidden...
Now like someone said one image says more than 1000 words.
This is a typical street of London right?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3FwTtBVjk
And this is a typical street of Buenos Aires
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRqYAXJBlE8
Can you see the difference?
So if you ever come to Argentina my best advice for you is...
Bring with you a good ration of kebabs and Pyjamas because is something “extremely exotic” for the Pampas.
No , not really. He sounds like a raving loony.
He quotes continually about the Muslims in the UK. and is obviously anti Muslim
Follow from his post at #39, my reply #41 ,his #42 my reply #43
When I counter with articles about Muslims in Germany - his alma mater -he says I am in Argentina.
So I quote an Argentinian source and a video of his president to point out that there are Muslims in Argentina, I get the reply above at 46
to Dany, you said at #44
Sure, sure, but I'm in Argentina now a kebab and pyjama free country you know? and below
Hey idiot
What food and pyjamas have to do with religion?
It's you that keeps talking about pyjamas, kebabs and ukistan.
So, you tell me what you are on about apart from snide racist remarks.
What have pyjamas and kebabs got to do with the Falklands? unless you intend it obviously to all here as a racist slur.
An overwhelming proportion of the your country’s Muslim population is concentrated in the capital city of Buenos Aires, which is home to three mosques: the Al-Ahmad mosque, the Al-Tauhid mosque, and the Rey Fahd mosque, also known as the Palermo mosque.
You say
Can you tell please where are they? Because must be very well hidden... Try the areas above.
As to your typical street in London, I don't believe so. It is one street in London chosen to make a racist point.
How about this as a typical street in BA.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EUir3SI2Y
I have no idea if this is typical but you can lift anything off
youtube to try and prove your point.
Everybody does not eat kebabs in the UK. The last one I ate was in Turkey in 1998.
So argentinaindependent is an anglo saxon paper.
As a colonist with anglo saxon roots,it should reflect your ethnic views !
Are you sure that you are British?
London mostly is all like this, in fact I challenge you to show us any street of London where you can find English as a majority ethnic group.
For me is find I have not problem with ethnic groups but please stop to deny them will you?
A country with just only 5% of other ethnic groups doesn’t look like this.
Is like to deny the existence of Italians and Spanish in Argentina is not possible.
Imagine me saying that the Italians only count for 5% of ethnic Group in Argentina.
Its just ridiculous.
Today Blacks, Muslims, Indus, Pakistani, Chinese, etc, etc are part of the predominant British culture.
In fact would not be Britain as is like today without them.
Or just your “comenwalf” is use full to get money from them?????
Yes Dany, and I have a UK birth certificate to prove it as did my parents, Grandparents,back to when records began. How about you
You say that you have no problem with ethnic groups. If this is the case, why do you keep referring to pyjamas, kebabs and ukistan - inferring that we in the UK are being overwhelmed by Muslims“. You even said that about the Falklands.
When I referred you to articles about Muslims in Germany - you don't believe Anglo Saxon news, whatever that is.
Then I quote German sources, you then say that you don't live in Germany.
So I then show you Argentinian sources about Muslims in Buenos Aires and you deny this is true -even a video of CFK approving of Muslim women wearing the Hajib.
It looks as if you have an anti-muslim agenda.
Of course Britain is a land of diverse ethnic cultures and always has been. London is an exception in the fact that it is a Capitol city and more of a ”world city” as immigrants and asylum seekers are attracted by the hope of jobs and a better life. Nearly all the world's capitols have the same background.
Where I live there are Poles, some Spanish, Portuguese a few Asians and Chinese and virtually no blacks.
In Glasgow there are distinct Indian, Pakistan and Chinese communities who all seem to manage to live together.
We even had an Asian MP who only got voted in because of an ethnic Scottish white vote.
Like most foreigners,and the UK press, your views are too London-centric and equate London with the rest of Britain .
You don't have a clue what the bulk of the UK population think.
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