Friday, January 25th 2013 - 07:49 UTC

Brazil’s Vale suspends ‘indefinitely’ 6bn potash project in Argentina

Brazil’s government managed Vale and the world’s third-largest mining company, suspended works at its 6 billion dollars potash project in Argentina indefinitely. A suspension at the Rio Colorado potash project in the Argentine province of Mendoza since last month will be maintained, the Rio de Janeiro-based company said in an e-mail.

CEO Murilo Ferreira making tough decisions to meet profit targets

Vale Chief Executive Officer Murilo Ferreira is selling assets and cancelling projects as the company is set to post the lowest annual profit in three years.

Vale is in talks with a potential partner for the Rio Colorado project, Roger Downey, head for fertilizers and coal, said last December. In that month the company cut the 2013 budget for the project to 611 million from 1.08 billion dollars last year.

“The project isn’t cancelled,” Rolando Baldasso, Mendoza province’s minister of infrastructure and energy, said in an e- mailed response to questions. “

“There are financial issues that are triggering an operational restructuring.”

Los Andes newspaper reported earlier that the project was suspended for an indefinite period and it won’t be reopened until Vale gets a partner. Vale is currently holding talks with two multinational companies seeking to seal a partnership, the Mendoza City-based newspaper said, citing an unidentified company official.

Brazil’s only potash producer, Vale said in October it has spent 1.8 billion dollars on Rio Colorado and completed 41% of the project. The venture includes the developing of a mine in Mendoza, the renovation of 440 kilometres of railway trucks and the construction of a 350 kilometre-long railway spur to transport the potash to a terminal in the port of Bahia Blanca in the province of Buenos Aires province for its export.

With the capacity to produce 4.3 million metric tons of potash, the project would make Argentina the world’s third- largest exporter of the crop nutrient, President Cristina Fernandez announced last July after signing agreements with Vale to proceed with the project.

Vale’s stock has dropped 3.4% this year.
 

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1 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 09:45 am Report abuse
Spooky - I'd never heard of Vale until I had dealings with them yesterday.
2 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 12:20 pm Report abuse
I imagine Vale is going to have the same problem YPF is when looking for a partner. Why invest in Argentina when you can't freely move your profits out of the country. It makes no sense.
Funny yesterday Toby said I was lying about this article.
They get so desperate when it is clearly bad news that can't be countered.
3 Condorito (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 01:16 pm Report abuse
2
Not only profits that can't be gotten out, but some times the product too.
4 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
My guess is they'll just delay until 2015 when Argentina is rid of CFK and a sensible contract can be signed.
5 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment208983: Well, how much credibility should we give to a prediction made by a person who has “never heard of Vale until I had dealings with them yesterday”?
6 Anglotino (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
@5 Hepatitis

“Well, how much credibility should we give to a prediction made by a person who has “never heard of Vale until I had dealings with them yesterday”? ”

When a ship is sinking because of multiple holes in its hull, you don't have to know the size and location of each hole to predict it will sink!

(A sinking ship analogy..... how's that for timing?)
7 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment208997: And how much notice should we give to a person who makes an analogy which, without that person realizing it, completely misses the point.

Let me guess, you too have not heard of Vale before.
8 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:44 pm Report abuse
I'm not really sure what relevance knowledge of Vale has to any of this and you don't need any knowledge of them to assume the statement I made.

I assume it's just an effort to distract away from the point that they have lost patience with Argentina too.
9 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209003: Somebody who has not even heard of Vale cannot possibly have sufficient knowledge of America to make any informed comment about any American country.
10 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 02:57 pm Report abuse
9. I've heard of Vale and he is basically agreeing with me. Is that good enough for you high standards?

retard
11 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209007: Not at all. You are a self described Yankee.
12 Conqueror (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
@5, 7, 9 Are you paid by the word? We all know what the URL is. It's at the top of the open window in the address field. Nobody, of any intelligence, needs you to repeat it every time. Far better for you to indicate who you are addressing. For instance, @5, who are you addressing? You had a choice of 4. The essence of boards like this is “communication”. It's like a letter. You start by addressing someone. Then you say what you want to say. Or do all your letters start with e.g. “This is a letter about Uncle Manuel”?
13 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
So Mr Liver - do you have any comment to make about Vale abandoning Argentina then?
14 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
13. According to Toby on another thread he is glad they aren't exporting anything and the 4200 people they fired didn't need the job anyway. Plus it is better everything stays in the ground for future generations.
I am sure Hepa feels the same.

hepa, I am a yankee and your better but you should know that already.
15 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:20 pm Report abuse
@9

And he's never set foot in Argentina either.

That's the pattern isn't??

Argentina this argentina that.
- Ever been to Argentina?
- umm.. no, does that matter?

Argies are this argies are that.
- Ever met one?
-umm... that's not the point.

@14

Hey you fool... is working out for the USA isn't it? Four 30 years you had politicians passing laws that made it nearly unprofitable to explore oil or gas within the USA, or build refineries.

Now that is all changed and look... so aren't YOU benefiting from the fact that the prior generation didn't use up all that resource back then?

Mendoza doesn't need mining to have an economy. It already has an economy.

Countodown to the 4th US debt default in history... by summer, me thinks.
16 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:24 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209010: I think that this link may clarify:

www.vale.com/PT/aboutvale/news/Paginas/vale-nega-anuncio-da-suspensao-de-projeto-na-argentina.aspx
17 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:25 pm Report abuse
Hahahahah... monolinguals can't read that!
18 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:25 pm Report abuse
15 Nostrolldamus the 8th

No I've never been to Argentina but I've certainly met a few. My mates wife is an Argentine and she's a complete idiot. Thinks the galaxy is run by a master race living at the centre. I think she watches too much Sci Fi.

You don't need to go to a country to comment on it - otherwise most posters couldn't comment on anything.

Ps: Four = 4
19 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
I apologize for my spelling mistakes, I haven't been writing in Englishc much at all last 3 weeks.

Well, thank you for your honesty about you making up your mind based on a “mate's wife”. I base my opinions on the British having read a book on Harold Shipman.
20 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
“Well, thank you for your honesty about you making up your mind based on a “mate's wife””

Where did I say that then?
21 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
What are you talking about Fracking technology has just been invented you fool! We knew the o/g was there but the technology didn't exist to get it out.
In a decade we will be pumping more than Saudi Arabia!

It has nothing to do with the laws over the last 30 yrs we have been pumping and exploring right along the whole time. I

Like the rest of Argentina, Mendoza needs every centavo it can get its thieving hands on.

This is going to hurt the economy a lot whether you want to admit it or not is up to you. Frankly I don't care I don't have to live there thank goodness.
22 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
I think he may have been getting confused with nuclear energy. I don't think you've built a plant since Three Mile Island have you?
23 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:45 pm Report abuse
22. I really don't have any idea but with all the econazis we have here I wouldn't be surprised!
I think most of the electricity plants are converting or being built to use nat gas. We have something like 300yrs worth in potential reserves and are basically paying cost right now. We need to build more LNG plants and export it but everything takes time.
24 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_States

You're the largest producer of nuclear power yet haven't built one at home since 1974! Seems to be changing though.
25 Room237 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:18 pm Report abuse
@21 yankeeboy , Fracking technology was invented sometime in the late 1860's I beleave in shallow wells using nitroglycerin. Acid was used to replace this in the 20's and 30's and finally the current method of water and sand in 1947 by Haliburton. But you are right in the sense that it only became commercially viable on a large scale recently and only thanks to you Americans.
26 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
Thanks for the info I really didn't know that it has been around so long. I didn't think the technology to drill that deep was available. I can't imagine how dangerous this was in the 1800s though. I am sure they had no idea what they were doing and probably really screwed up the water table ect.
On Nuclear, I think we should have more plants everywhere but who knows what will happen Obama is pretty beholden to the econazis so we may have to wait for the next Prez. I hear he is warming up to the o/g industry though because of the huge royalty and tax payments it will generate.
27 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
I would have thought that nitroglycerin would have burnt off any fossil fuels they were attempting to extract!!
28 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:49 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209014: I think you have got to understand the British. They like to effect an air of simultaneous arrogance and ignorance. Their arrogance allows them to wear their ignorance with pride.

It reminds me of the first time I came in contact with “Kelpers” (i.e. British occupiers of Las Malvinas). This was in Punta Arenas, Chile in about 1975 or 1976. They were coming to Punta Arenas to get supplies and repair their boats.

They too effected an air of ignorance (which they were) and superiority (which they we not). They spoke almost no Spanish which is how, as an English speaker, I came to be involved with them.

In general Chilenos are a warm and open people but those that came in contact with these Kelpers hated them. The Chilenos often spoke very rudely about them behind their backs, and sometimes to their faces (in Spanish). Of course the Kelpers were too ignorant to understand what was happening but I felt that they must sensed something.

I used to feel embarrassed by the situation even though Chile is not my country. Sometime I would try and defend the Kelpers to the Chilenos even though their complete lack of charm made that impossible.

I see a lot of the “Kelper” in British respondents on this board. It doesn't surprise me. Their arrogance comes from their historical position as an imperial power and their bitterness comes from the fact that they have had to accept that they are just an ordinary European country.
29 Marcos Alejandro (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:50 pm Report abuse
16 Hepatia
Your link says:
25/01/2013
“Vale nega anúncio da suspensão de projeto na Argentina”

Can you translate please for that dumb yankeeboy Fred?

Thanks
30 Room237 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
aoghs.org/technology/shooters-well-fracking-history/
31 Idlehands (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
28 Hepatia

Wassup? The Gringos upsetting you a little too much today?
32 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:03 pm Report abuse
So, Vale didn't suspend operations they just extended the vacation time of all the employees until further notice.

Sounds like Polispeak to me.

I guess some RG minister/thug called them and threatened to nationalize them so they re-wrote the PR.
33 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209049: It says:

“Vale has not announced the suspension of the project in Argentina.”

That is, this article has no factual basis.

I have heard a number of things about who actually controls “Mercopress” but none of it is definitive. My own opinion is that it is a propaganda effort run by, or in the interests of, the UK. This article, and others like it, just re enforce my opinion.

The pity is that, in this case, Vale is forced to issue a denial to counter this misinformation.
34 Pugol-H (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
@28 Hepatia
“I used to feel embarrassed”, - You still should.

By the looks of it no one in Argentina will have heard of “Vale”, in the very near future either.
35 yankeeboy (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:23 pm Report abuse
Is Bloomberg a propaganda machine too?
www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-23/vale-argentine-potash-project-suspended-indefinitely.html

Or Businessweek or Mining.com or or or or

Vale didn't deny it they are playing loose with the term suspension. Can't you Rgidiots figure anything out by yourselves?

paranoia runs so high in Argentina
36 Think (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:24 pm Report abuse
( 33) Hepatia

You say...:
“ I have heard a number of things about who actually controls “Mercopress” but none of it is definitive. My own opinion is that it is a propaganda effort run by, or in the interests of, the UK......”

I say...:
You couldn't be closer to the truth....

Saludos
El Think
Chubut, Argentina.
37 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209059: To clarify, my embarrassment was as a result of the untypical bad behavior by the Chilenos. The subsequent very bad behavior by the UK and the British has freed me of the need to feel embarrassed now.
38 Pugol-H (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
Oh you still need to feel embarrassed, trust me on this.
39 Hepatia (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 05:57 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209062: Bloomberg! You must have been born yesterday. I can still remember all those talking heads on Bloomberg telling us that the Great Recession was never going to happen. The thing about Bloomberg is that they are not a reliable source for anything.

P.S. You have still to establish that I have ever been to Argentina let alone that I'm an “Rgidiot” (whatever RG is means).
40 agent999 (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
@36 Think

You have tried this “control of Mercopress” fantasy in the past with no success !

@37 Hepatia

“The company has extended the workers' end-of-the year break while it evaluates changes in the economics of the project.”, which means they have :-
stopped working the mines and as the headline states “Brazil’s Vale suspends ‘indefinitely’ 6bn potash project in Argentina”
41 CaptainSilver (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
Hepatitus, we can't speak every language, very few of us speak Spanish. We speak important languages like French and German. Italian and Spanish are not seen as so useful. You display your ignorance of Falklanders and Brita by tarring us all with the same brush....ignoramus! It's odd that this site contains so much negative information about Argentina. From what I have seen on my visits there its spot on.

As its Burns night tonight I'll leave you with this thought..

“O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!”

Most British people recognise their own limitations, but its a characteristic of Latins - all hat and no cattle
42 Condorito (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
28 Hepatia,
Those Kelpers must be something special if an Argie finds them arrogant!
British tourist here have a reputation as polite, well educated and good tippers...not sure the same can be said of the Argies.

But to be fair I would probably have to compare the Argies here to the Brits that go to Spain, for a more appple with apples comparison.

CaptainSilver:
“We speak important languages like French and German. Italian and Spanish are not seen as so useful”

Are you sure about that?
I would only agree with you on 1/4: Italian is not seen as useful. Spanish is the most popular language for Brits looking to learn a second language.
43 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
I have never heard an anglo-saxon speak fluently another language. Period.

@41

The opinions of racists are not taking seriously. Thus your opinions are not taken seriously.

Anglo-saxons: no morals, all hipocrisy.
44 Britninja (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@43 Probably because we tend not to stick around to display our linguistic abilities when a psychopathic foreigner-hating Argie starts pelting us with stones after forgetting to take his meds ;)
45 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
@44

Do you read what is said of Argentina and argies here? You won't answer honestly, so don't bother.
46 CaptainSilver (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:54 pm Report abuse
Nostril
You have never travelled have you? We don't generally need to speak other languages because in most countries people are learning English. Why do you think that is? I am not a racist I have pals of all colours.

England, the home of the industrial revolution, steam engine, electric motor, electric generator, steam turbine, tv, radio, telephone light bulb were invented, the cradle of democracy, the place where the law is above politics

Argentina, Latin colony, home od Indian genocide 78 revolutions per minute, economic basketcase despite fantastic natural resources.

All fur coat and no knickers...
47 Britninja (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 07:56 pm Report abuse
@45 Meh people generalise, it happens. Personally I'm sure there are lots of lovely Argie individuals out there...its just that none of them come on these comment boards. As for Argentina itself, the evidence that it's one of the worst-run countries on earth is glaringly obvious every day. We might find it amusing at times, but we're not the ones *causing* the problems - blame your ker-razy government.

As for you being all morally outraged about “racism” again Tobes, aren't you always the one talking about how entire continents of people should be expunged from existence because we're all vile, devil-worshipping, capitalist mass murderers? ;)
48 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:19 pm Report abuse
@46

Umm no. I meant when you said “Spanish” is not an important language, that showed your racism. Not because of the statement itself, but because of the arrogance. I would concede that to someone in the UK, Spanish is not that useful, and German and French may help more.

But in the Americas, and other places, it may be very useful, while German and French do not. It is that lack of perspective that I find most pitiful of anglo-saxons.

In Argentina, English is not that important compared to most other places in the world... we are far away from the USA, and certainly need nothing from the UK. All our neighbors speak the same language, so no need for a lingua franca.

Not too important, English, here. That does not mean it is not an important language. See the difference? Latins can caveat, anglo-saxons are incapable of such subtleness.

Argentina for almost 100 years was one of the world's wealthiest nations, 1870 to the 1950s.

England before 1700 was a non-player in Europe, much less the world stage.

So you see, if a group of people were trully superior, they would we superior in everything, all the time, throughout history. No nation or people have ever done that, so your arrogance is duly dismissed as bunkum.

@47

Have I ever said “exterminate” anyone? Kill Brits or Europeans?

No.

And you know it.

I have said you need to pay for your crimes, and I've already said the amount in damages Europe inflicted on the other continents of the globe, for 500 years, plus slavery, plus accrued interest has been estimated to total 137 trillion US dollars from 2010 (obviously more now).

If Europe simply paid that debt, at least it would show sincerity. Since you refuse, and won't even officially apologize, I have the right to keep ripping you all to shreads about your past. But I've never said you need to be exterminated. I'm not British, or German, or Spanish, afterall.
49 CaptainSilver (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
Nostril

As you are a descendant of Europeans are you paying? Argentina follows the Spanish tradition. The country that had it all, then lost it all, then transformed into a dictatorship, then limped along getting weaker and weaker... Does this sound familiar? That period you mention, who helped Argentina develop? I have seen your railways, traffic lights, postboxes. At least we live somewhere grown up without stupid nationistic signs plastered everywhere. It's a bit like Orwells 1984 in your country. We gave you a leg up, now you squandered it all by failing to be able to manage the countryby yourselves.

Wilberforce awakes Englands concience, thus England abandoned slavery first and fought against it in Africa and against the Spanish. The UK gives more of its GDP to poor countries than any other nation on earth.

You are deluded if you think your weak arguments and misinformed comments worry any of us in any way. We just find them pathetic.

Why you think the Falkland islanders would wish to be ruled by a nation of wimps and losers beat all of us.
50 Brasileiro (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 09:12 pm Report abuse
Hello. I come back. I was fishing in rivers from Mato Grosso do Sul.
51 roger (#) Jan 25th, 2013 - 11:41 pm Report abuse
@ 35 Yankee stupid
so what?
why are you so “interested” in a country you keep saying don't like?
52 Ayayay (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 12:39 am Report abuse
@15 except: The U.S. has TONS of cash..
The U.S. market is at it's hselfalf-decade HIGH..
And they've raised their self-appointes debt ceiling as a courtesy a frillion times before. Do I wish the legislators were more financially conservative-sure but there's all kinds in America.
53 Anglotino (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 02:37 am Report abuse
I see Tobias is back to his usual self. No thesaurus and making no sense (and spelling mistakes to boot).

“I have never heard an anglo-saxon speak fluently another language. Period.”

Further proof that you have never been anywhere.

“Argentina for almost 100 years was one of the world's wealthiest nations, 1870 to the 1950s.”

It's a rare person that can point out how mismanaged their country is with such glee. I can't believe you think this is a point of pride. This is an example of a country in decline. You can't even blame WW2 for the decline.

Funnily enough I could say the same about Australia for the same period.

BUT.....

It still applies now. Australia is so much richer than Argentina it is positively obscene. I am still yet to find an economic or social indicator where Argentina ranks better than Australia.

And you gloat about this. Way to prove me right. YOU CAN'T ARGUE.

“England before 1700 was a non-player in Europe, much less the world stage.”

I know. What an amazing ascent. To think it was once Portugal and Spain with their empires and then along came England and the UK not only eclipsed them but went further and better. The world's largest empire, inventor of the industrial revolution and home of the world's first global language.

“So you see, if a group of people were trully superior, they would we superior in everything, all the time, throughout history. No nation or people have ever done that, so your arrogance is duly dismissed as bunkum.”

Huh? You do know you can't argue? This makes no sense. A country can't ever change? Funny point to make considering you admitted your country's peak is behind you by almost 60 years.

As for paying the damages for colonialism. My country is mature enough to accept our history as our own and not blame another country. I feel sorry for countries that ignore their heritage to make themselves feel better about their past.

Damn run out of room to discuss the article. If someone would be so kind....
54 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 03:44 am Report abuse
@49

No, we gave you a leg up. We saved you from having significant starvation events during WWII. Show some gratitude.

Oh yes, you are going to say “but we bought that food from you”. Well, guess what... you made massive profits from trading with Argentina way back when! Massive profits in the railroads, the beef, the wheat, and in banking (except the Great Panic of 1890 when the Argentine economic bubble burst). No leg up, just good ol business.

Unless you are willing to say Argentina sort of saved you during the war.

Up to you.

@53

What does mismanagement have to do with anything? Was Rome mismanaged? Sure. The Spanish Empire? Sure. the British Empire? sure. Iraq? sure... many places have been very wealthy and no longer are. It's called “history'! Things change... you think Australia will stay ”rich“ in 100 years? I almost guarantee you it will not, it may be poorer than most of Asia in 50 years.

Not your fault, just things ”change“, shock, shock.

Well, the Portuguese and Spanish empires are gone sure, but so is the British empire... so there is no difference between them. It's ridiculous that you are trying to prove anything with that.

And what is this angl0-saxon obsession with wealth? My what a fixation!

You people are so stupid saying Argentina should be rich ”always“. Show me one country that has been ”always” rich. You know the Scandinavian countries were literal DUMPS 100-150 years ago? People could not get out of there fast enough. We know Ireland. We know Korea 70 years ago was dirt poor. Dubai same.

The USA was the wealthiest nation in the world per capita in 1950, and was HALF of the world's GDP!!!

Today it's officially under 20% of worlds GDP and right at 10th place or out of the top 10 in per capita... it will keep falling. Is that because they are a failure? Well, I would say so, but other countries rising also plays a part.

No country can be eternally wealthy.
55 agent999 (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 06:38 am Report abuse
:-
56 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 06:53 am Report abuse
@54
“No country can be eternally wealthy.”

Yup, no problem. Keep going the way you are.

Nothing you can do about it. Not your fault.

Don't bother trying, it's too much effort.

Your neighbours will wish you to fail, anyway, and they're working hard to make sure it happens.

Your foreign trade will fall to pieces, then you can sever all ties with all foreigners.

There! Feel better?

Knew you would. :-)
57 reality check (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 07:47 am Report abuse
Saved us during the Second World War,that old chestnut again, laughed my ass off.
58 Anglotino (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:55 am Report abuse
So Tobias' take on economics!

“benefiting from the fact that the prior generation didn't use up all that resource back then?”

I'm all for Mendoza and Argentina keeping all its minerals and resources in the ground. It'll be hard for you to understand but such actions make my country richer.

Just because you don't mine it doesn't mean others aren't. There at still countries consuming these resources. So others will step in and sell it instead.

They'll take those profits after employing people and paying taxes and go invest elsewhere.

Australia (for example) will have people gainfully employed and consuming and investing in their own futures. The government will use the taxes to build infrastructure and provide wealth redistribution.

Those companies take their experience and expertise and become more efficient. They take their profits and invest in places like Chile and Colombia.

www.austrade.gov.au/Mining-ties-boosted-between-Australia-and-Colombia/default.aspx
newmatilda.com/2012/10/19/big-mining-colombian-push

And they then make more money. They contribute to the host country with taxes and development. And their profits are repatriated and pay taxes in their home countries as well as shareholders.

All the while Argentina and Mendoza sits on its wealth smugly waiting for future development. Its citizen's living standards stagnate and even absolutely decline compared to countries.

“Mendoza doesn't need mining to have an economy. It already has an economy.”

And it is tiny! Are your government as business unfriendly as you?

My state's GSP is nominally about 75% of your entire country's. All with 1/5 the population. Victoria has 3 times Mendoza's population but produces 16 times its output.

We do that with mining AND other industries such as wine, agriculture, manufacturing and even those bugbears for you.... tourism and education.

Limit and hobble your own economy all you want. The only people affected are yourselves.
59 stick up your junta (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 10:11 am Report abuse
@54
Funny you should mention the war
Evita, Swiss & the Nazis
www.consortiumnews.com/1999/c010699a.html
60 CaptainSilver (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 10:27 am Report abuse
Nostril

I remember just after the war - Argentinian beef...

Beef and whine things that Argentinean people do so well (apart from indian genocide that is...)

Report in The Times this morning after the Olympics in Spain Britain is cool. Union Jacks everywhere, even in Cuba its the same. Everyone is learning English, people are teaching their kids English at home, its seen as essential in the modern world. Meanwhile Argentina continues whining and alienating everyone. Will this fixation with England and English penetrate Argentina and stop all the nonsense? Why not try a different approach - mutual respect and friendship? That's the way to get a piece of the South Atlantic bonanza you are presently shut out of.
61 yankeeboy (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
Mendoza gave the government five days a Brazilian firm to present a timetable for resumption of the works, with threat to terminate the grant
www.lanacion.com.ar/1549113-exigen-a-vale-retomar-un-proyecto-minero-suspendido
Toby amd Hepa, I think you need to read some other news sources you don't keep making complete fools of yourself.
To me it looks like Mendoza is freaking out about the closure.
Peso is a 7.64/1U$
I wonder when it will hit 10?
Lower peso=higher inflation=lower peso= higher inflation
where will it end
hyperinflation probably
I can't wait it is fascinating to watch morons ruin a country
simply facinating
62 reality check (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
The ones amongst us with common sense would enquire and look for ways to resolve the issues raised. Them? no, in quite typical fashion they demand and threaten. Seems to be endemic and not just restricted to KFC's way of doing business.
63 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
@58

You have a wildly overvalued currency. May I remind you 10 years ago your dollar was 50 cents of a US dollar. Argentina's currency was 1=1.

Nominal only is useful in measuring relative purchasing power outside your own borders... that's why PPP is used, to balance out currency fluctuations. Your nominal may be high right now, but so are your internal living costs. No one in their right mind would travel on vacation to Australia right now.

And when you take than into account, the difference is not as huge as you like people to believe. I guess you australians are no different than the brazilians and chileans and uruguayans, a bunch parvenus and arrivistes.

You would be wise to learn from Argentina there, we also thought we were the shit when our GDP was half of Brazils because of our overvalued currency, and we went on weekend trips to Miami, Spain, Paris, and everywhere we went bought 2 for 1.

Getting hung up in currency fluctuations as a sign of long lasting wealth is a game for jingoist losers.

@60

Good for the cubans, and spaniards. As you might guess, not many Union Jacks or people learning English in Argentina. What for? Almost everyone speaks Spanish to us.

@56

Not our fault at all. It's called the wheels of time. There is no point in making any effort to fight history. We accept our best time (wealthwise ONLY), are past us and won't come back. Big deal, there's more to life than counting 100s.
64 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
@63

”We accept our best time (wealthwise ONLY), are past us and won't come back. Big deal, there's more to life than counting 100's”

Glad to hear you are content to slide away into poverty.
I suppose that you will soon see that shopping malls of Mendoza will decline and finally close. The flashy new ones will never be more than a photoshop exercise for the developers.

Of course, you could look at the problems and through hard work, perhaps reverse the slide. Easier to sit on your hands. Continue.
65 yankeeboy (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
Toby, You need to take an economics class from the USA or UK. Your ignorance is simply breathtaking.

Dare I say as ignorant as Axel and that is saying a lot!
66 agent999 (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
63 Nostrolldamus the 8th

Not everyone has the same blinkered opinion as you !

www.chubut.edu.ar/descargas/ingles/english_in_argentina.pdf
67 Nostrolldamus the 8th (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:27 pm Report abuse
@65

Look who speaks of ignorance... Mr. 14/1 by June 2012.

@66

Blinkered, no, just facts. English is not essential here like it maybe in Europe, Northern Latin America, or swaths of Asia, India, etc.
68 reality check (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
Why list them? why not call them what they are, prosperous countries!
69 agent999 (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:40 pm Report abuse
@67
Your comment was:-
”As you might guess, not many (Union Jacks or) people learning English in Argentina. What for? Almost everyone speaks Spanish to us.”

This is not born out by the article posted.

Again this is your own personal biased opinion
70 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
@63tttt

”We accept our best time (wealthwise ONLY), are past us and won't come back. Big deal, there's more to life than counting 100's”

Glad to hear you are content to slide away into poverty.
I suppose that you will soon see that shopping malls of Mendoza will decline and finally close. The flashy new ones will never be more than a photoshop exercise for the developers.

Of course, you could look at the problems and through hard work, perhaps reverse the slide. Easier to sit on your hands. Continue.
71 yankeeboy (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
BUENOS AIRES--Argentina's black-market peso continued its ongoing slide Friday, weakening to ARS7.61 to the U.S. dollar, according to the financial daily El Cronista.

Economists, meanwhile, say the blue rate is on track to slip to around ARS9, or even ARS10, by the end of 2013.

I guess that is because everyone is expecting 30% inflation in 2013

I bet it will be more than that.

Toby, I have looked everywhere but I can't seem to find something similar for Argentina www.aoc.gov/capitol-grounds if you have something please pass it on.

Is there a reason the graffiti can't be cleaned off Congresso or the homeless shelters removed around the fountain that's in front?
72 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 26th, 2013 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
@63TTT

””We accept our best time (wealthwise ONLY), are past us and won't come back. Big deal, there's more to life than counting 100's”

Just putting this out there:

Do you think a change in government administration would result in different policies and taxation that would help your economy?
73 Brasileiro (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 12:08 am Report abuse
Brasil and Argentina = Spain and Portugal = Father and Mother = Maradona and Pelé = São Paulo and Buenos Aires = Sacramento and Montevidéu = War and Peace = Europeans and Monkeys = Castela and Leon = Jerez de la Frontera and Estoril = South America and Libertad
74 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 04:38 am Report abuse
@73

CFK and Dilmann = Methusela and Medusa = Romy and Michelle = Abbott and Costello = Dumb and Dumber
75 screenname (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
#73 Brasileiro: Just for reference, a real Brazilian would have put Pelé and then Maradona.

...and with regards the Spain and Portugal comment, either you have not been to Portugal or I didn't realise you disliked Argentina so much.

@74 Troy Tempest: Abbott and Costello were very, very good at what they did. They don't deserve to be in that list.
76 Troy Tempest (#) Jan 27th, 2013 - 09:20 pm Report abuse
'@75screename

“74 Troy Tempest: Abbott and Costello were very, very good at what they did. They don't deserve”

Sorry, I stand corrected.
They were very clever at deliberately portraying stupidity.

Let's substitute “CFK Economic Policy and Defeat”
77 Hepatia (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 12:09 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment209228: Plainly, since Vale has not suspended the project, the Mendozian administration has its head up its ass.
78 yankeeboy (#) Jan 29th, 2013 - 02:00 pm Report abuse
77. Clearly you are delusional.

It's actually Kiciloff that is freaking out since there are LOTS of MFGs and other projects getting “suspended” all over the country.
79 Hepatia (#) Jan 30th, 2013 - 12:41 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment210003: Of more interest is your blind faith in the judgement of Perez and Kirchner. Your position is that, because these two have judged that the project is suspended, then it is so.

What this is really all about is the price of iron ore. It has nothing to do with potash or Argentina.
80 yankeeboy (#) Jan 30th, 2013 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
It has everything to do with Argentina, are you seriously that dim-witted? Int'l companies CAN”T REPATRIATE FUNDS OR GET PRODUCTION LOANS!!
What projects do you think they'll shut down first?
The ones in Argentina of course
You are a blockhead.
81 Hepatia (#) Jan 31st, 2013 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/01/25/brazil-s-vale-suspends-indefinitely-6bn-potash-project-in-argentina#comment210498: So now you claim that Vale have shut the project down? Again, I quote:

“A Vale esclarece que não anunciou a suspensão do Projeto Rio Colorado, na Argentina.”

You and President Kirchner disbelieve this statement. What evidence do you and President Kirchner have to form you view. None.

I have counted the number of messages that I posted to get you to abandon your limp, flaccid argument and to reduce you personal invective and wild and unsubstantiated claims (typed in upper case, no less). I count 3. Too easy. You really should try harder and have more self respect!
82 yankeeboy (#) Feb 01st, 2013 - 12:41 pm Report abuse
My evidence is there are no employees working on the site.
Why would the Arg and Mendoza gov't be threatening sanctions etc if it was still working?
You are really thick
You need to seek medical help for your stupidity.

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