Monday, February 11th 2013 - 04:49 UTC

PM Cameron to Scotland: “we’re better off together and poorer apart”

British Prime Minister David Cameron conceded that Scotland had what it takes to be an independent nation, but said it currently enjoyed “the best of both worlds”, imploring it not to break the United Kingdom apart.

“Put simply: Britain works. Britain works well. Why break it?”, said PM Cameron

Stepping up his government's campaign to hold Britain together ahead of an independence referendum expected next year, Cameron urged Scotland not to sever a union with England that dates back 306 years.

“Put simply: Britain works. Britain works well. Why break it?” he wrote in an article published in Scottish newspapers.

“This big question is for Scotland to decide. But the answer matters to all of our United Kingdom. Scotland is better off in Britain. We're all better off together and poorer apart.”

Cameron's political future and historic legacy are on the line. He has pledged to contest the next British general election in 2015 and his own Conservative party would never forgive him if he presided over the break-up of a UK comprising England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

London's main parties are campaigning jointly against independence, knowing that Alex Salmond's Scottish National Party (SNP) is an astute and highly motivated political machine that will spare no effort to win a vote on its flagship policy.

Tapping into an emotive cocktail of historical rivalry, opposing political tastes, and a perception that the British parliament in London does not nurture Scotland's national interests, the “Yes Scotland” campaign wants independence to be a reality by 2016.

Scottish secession could create serious problems for the remainder of the United Kingdom.

Britain's Trident nuclear submarine fleet is based in Scotland, revenues from Scottish North Sea oil remain important to its coffers, and analysts say Britain would find it harder to maintain its voice in international bodies such as the UN Security Council as well as in European Union decision-making.

The SNP published a document this month suggesting the transition arrangements could be made within 16 months, and that Independence Day for Scotland could come in March 2016, a timetable opponents dismissed as unrealistic.

Opinion polls suggest support for independence has stalled. The latest put it at 32% and opposition at 47%. But Cameron and politicians from other parties remain nervous.

The government is expected to release the first of many policy papers on Scottish independence on Monday, analysing the legal and constitutional implications of a “Yes” vote.
 

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1 Marcos Alejandro (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 05:21 am Report abuse
Hypocrisy is an English disease.
2 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 05:40 am Report abuse
Peronists have all the others
3 Anglotino (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 05:59 am Report abuse
LMAO!

Oh snap!
4 Doveoverdover (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:59 am Report abuse
Classic misuse of the term “Britain” to describe the United Kingdom, particular in the context of the secession of a part of geographical Great Britain from the Union. Post independence, the UK would still exist and would still strut its stuff in the UN SC and Brussels but without Scotland and without Scottish politicians at the helm.
5 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:21 am Report abuse
The civil tone of the British Prime Minister contrasts sharply with the total denial and authoritarian attitude of Spain towards Catalonia. While UK's Prime Minister recognizes Scotland's right to decide, the Spanish central government resorts to all kinds of nationalistic claims to deny Catalonians their self-determination rights. Pretty much in the same manner Argentinian governments claim a god-given right to rule and own and decide themselves on the fate and welfare of the Falklands.
6 Idlehands (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:41 am Report abuse
While I don't believe it is in either sides interests to break up the union you'd more likely get a yes vote from England to kick out the Scots than you would a Scottish yes to leave.

I'm sure many Scots would dream of an idealised independent Scotland but they will vote against on the basis that reality will not match that dream.
7 Clyde15 (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
#6
I appreciate your comments about “kicking out the Scots”
It does smack of a particularly racist point of view that surfaces in the English psyche from time to time.
Right enough, you have screwed out most of the oil revenues from us in the past 30 years.
8 Idlehands (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 01:43 pm Report abuse
Hmm - and yet you remain puzzled about why the English remain less than enthusiastic about poitical union with Scotland.
9 LEPRecon (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
@7 - Clyde15

Some of the most racist comments I have ever heard have been from Scots about the English. Some Scots appear to have some chip on their shoulders about the English, and I'm not sure why. They seem to believe that the English defeated them, but when I point out that the United Kingdom was actually Scotlands idea, they get upset and wander off. Just like when I point out that the British troops at Culloden were in fact Scottish and not English, they refuse to believe it!

I'm not suggesting that every Scottish person has those racist attitudes, but of the Scots I met with that attitude, they seem to blame the English for all their woes.

As for 'screwing' you out of the oil revenues, when have we done that?

The North Sea Gas and Oil treaty was signed by the UK, and the British government ensured that the UK got a good deal.

Scotland gets more money per person than England, Wales and Ireland does, from the tax man. Your University education is free, curtesy of the tax man.

Try not to make it seem that Scotland is somehow 'hard' done by, when you're not.

As for the North Sea Gas and Oil treaty, I wrote to the SNP and asked them how they would approach this.

They replied that they would take 'all' of the North Sea Gas and Oil, instead of a percentage. When I pointed out that if Scotland cedes from the UK it also cedes from the North Sea Gas and Oil treaty, and that would technically leave the rest of the UK with all of the oil, they replied I was wrong.

But was I wrong? At best the treaty would have to be renegiotated, and there is no guarantee that the other signatories wouldn't use Scotlands cessation to try and grab more for themselves.

There is a lot the SNP aren't saying that worries me. I believe that Scotland is better off as part of the Union, but if the Scottish truly want to go it alone, then that's your decision.

The SNP also couldn't answer why they would gain independence with one hand and then give it away to the EU with the other.
10 Shed-time (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
@7 Not unlike the unconstrained racism that Scots exhibit outwardly, from time to time, to the faces of English people on holiday.

I think it's good that the Scots get the right to vote on whether they want Alexis Almond as their eternal nationalist president. I think it's good that they discuss whether their leaving the union is a fine thing. I clearly think they and we would be better off without breaking up.

However, in my personal opinion they would be fools to leave, unless they want to be an economic powerhouse like 'iceland' or 'ireland'. Imagine having your family work hard to build a strong house with nice foundations and all, only to then decide you want to live in the garden shed.

It all makes little sense.
11 Raven (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 02:57 pm Report abuse
I don't think Alex Salmond has truly worked out the costs to Scotland should they split. He also can't claim ''all of the north sea revenues'' as there is a quite sizeable chunk 'south of the border'.
Should Scotland vote yes, then the best of luck to them, but I fear that Scotland will suffer quite hard economically.
12 Idlehands (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
Salmond wants an independent Scotland for nationalist reasons - working out the cost/benefit is not really of any interest to him other than as a tool to persuade others. It's an emotional rather than rational desire.

As for racism - you never hear of Scots being abused or driven out from England - other than maybe Gordon Brown.
13 Conqueror (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
@4 Thank God for that. Deliverance is at hand!
@7 Never mind. When you understand that the licensing of North Sea gas and oil fields are the subject of multilateral treaties that “independent Scotland” cannot, legally, sign up to. That membership of the European Union is another multilateral treaty that “independent Scotland” cannot, legally, sign up to. That “independent Scotland” will have all the obligations that the UK signed up to. That “independent Scotland” has no “right” to any UK assets. Scotland joined the Union with no assets and bankrupt. Have to leave the same way. Three hundred years and you get nothing! You need to try a little subject called “international law”. You should read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_states Then follow up the links and understand Scotland's REAL position. Plenty of people are telling you. “King” Alex lies. If you choose independence, I will certainly demand that my government explains the legality of ANYTHING you are GIVEN. I will also demand that Scotland takes on its share of the UK national debt and all obligations. I will demand that Scots are excluded and removed from the UK. By force, if necessary. “Independent Scotland” will have to be treated as a threat. Something else for you to whinge about. I intend to see that “independent Scotland” leaves the Union with nothing more than it brought. In other words, debts!
14 Idlehands (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 04:23 pm Report abuse
Are there any Johnny Foreigners that you do like Conqs?
15 Britworker (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
Its a fanciful idea, i'm sure most Scots would love the idea of being an independent country, but I would question how the tax revenue of 5 million people could sustain every service they are currently used to today, to the extent that it is currently sustained.
Which currency will they be using, the Euro, the pound. If its the pound, then the bank of England will set their interest rates, that doesnt sound very independent to me. Their is no guarantee they wll be able to join the EU any time soon, Spain has already openly stated that they will block Scotland as they do not want Catalonia to think it can just do the same.
North Sea oil is now in 30% reserves, I am reliably informed that the revenue they would get from this would not even cover their national health costs.
Also, I cant see the UK spending anymore money in Scotland building more ships if they are independent. Once the current contracts are complete, any future ones will go south of the border.

Once again, its a fanciful idea, but someone isn't doing the maths. I'm sure Scotland could manage for a time, but in the long term it is not in Scotlands economic interests to be independent and i'm sure this will be the view that prevails.
16 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 06:29 pm Report abuse
wait untill 2014,

never count before you are hatched,
2014.
17 redpoll (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
@7 Clyde my doonhaimer friend.
Its Shetlands oil and I think they have set aside a fund for the future for when it runs out.Only 8% of Orcadians and Zetlanders voted SNP last time yet under the strange electoral rules the have an SNP MP representing them in Edinburgh. The islands are a bit akin to the Falklands. What if they dont want to be part of an independent Scotland? The Faroes run thier own affairs and there are a lot fewer of them. The whole concept sends Salmond and his fellow kelts ballistic.
I didnt really want to clash claymores with you on the subject but you brought it up
Hope you enjoyed your venison lunch yesterday.Is it cheaper than beef or is it very dear? Hope you excuse the pun!
18 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 06:41 pm Report abuse
we are all freinds here,
county by county,
just wait 2014.
19 Clyde15 (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
I thought my remarks would bring the “English ” out in droves to remind us poor natives that Massa is really quite good to us.
Yes I would admit that a lot of my “countrymen” seem to have a chip on their shoulder for supposed “slights” by the majority English. However, I have seen the same from the English against the Scots, Welsh and Irish.
I presume its a kick back for being in a minority and feeling sidelined by the continual use of England instead of the UK. To a Scot, this automatically makes him invisible and excludes him from being a citizen of the UK.
Of course, whatever you say must be true Conq. and whatever is written in Wilkipedia could be quoted in a court of law - WISE UP !
The Hypothetical Scottish Shares of Revenues and Expenditures
from the UK Continental Shelf 2000 – 2013
Professor Alexander G. Kemp and Linda Stephen
[University of Aberdeen]
scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0039/00390421.pdf
This is the best estimate of N. Sea oil resources and Scotland's hypothetical share.
Conq. are you anyway related to PH. ?
You demand !!!!!!!. Scots will be expelled from the UK.
Define a Scot. Is it someone who was born in Scotland to English parents and then returned to England some years later or someone whose parents were Scottish but was born in England. Sounds a bit like a Nazi pogrom.
No ships will be built in Scotland for the RN. That's not what BAe systems are saying. You would rather give contracts to S. Korea than an independent Scotland.
That just confirms a latent anti Scottish feeling in England which has now found an excuse to voice itself.
Scottish population in England app.800,000
English population in Scotland 400,000
The English are welcome to stay in Scotland - many would have to be removed screaming and kicking if Conq's desire came to pass. ! scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/11/24111237/7
This shows that the bulk of English in Scotland come from the Home Counties
#17
A friend of mine, Fair Isle born and bred is a rabid SNP supporter!
20 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
come on guys relax
21 GeoffWard2 (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
Perhaps Shetland and the Orkneys will find themselves in the Falklands position, seeking to be a British Protectorate, and thus safe from the desires of the independent Scottish nation to take over 'their' oil/gas fields.
The UN C24 will have a fine old time pulling the bones out of this one!
22 Pirate Love (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:54 pm Report abuse
if the scottish wish to be independent then let them hold a referendum Self-Determination and all that, just remember the whole of the UK gained debts while Scotland was a part of The UK and should leave with their fair share of debt too,after all mr salmon leaving the Uk does not mean leaving the debt behind with the rest of The UK.
Imagine If england had independence from UK and left the UK and the debt to scotland,Wales and NI.
23 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:56 pm Report abuse
we need a bloody asprin.
24 Zethee (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
“No ships will be built in Scotland for the RN. That's not what BAe systems are saying.”

Doesn't matter what BAE are saying. The government is clearly saying that it will not happen. The RN does not let other nations build there warships. And if you think about it logically for one moment can you just see the outcry coming from the English press if they let them continue building ships in Scotland after separation? heads would roll.

SNP's entire defense policy is totally shite. People keep telling them that they will not be able to just keep the pound, navy and air force. We will not build ships in Scotland. And there responce is to just say oh yeah they still will.
25 Musky (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 08:36 pm Report abuse
Scotland is a great country with great people but it has achieved so much more as part of the UK. Its fiscal system, military institutions, broadcasting network andBBC, academic bodies, health service and welfare systems are intertwined, a nightmare to separate. Could Scotland open embassies world wide, defend its Territories or maintain the treaties... Unlikely. Stick with Britain and you'll be a great Scotland and a Great Britain... You always have been.
26 LEPRecon (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
Clyde15

I hope I didn't offend you, that wasn't my intent.

I find that it is usually foreigners that cannot understand that the UK and England are not the same thing and often say England when they mean British or UK.

Sports presenters seem afflicted with this same inability, but please don't tar all English people with the same brush - that would definitely be racist.

Ignore Conqueror, he speaks for no one but himself. He is a racist twonk.

If Scotland chooses to cede, I think it will be similar to when Eire ceded. The Irish born before the cessation still retained their British citizenship, and I have a feeling that the same would be true of Scottsh people born before the vote.

I have a lot a Scottish friends, some nationalist, some not. I accept their beliefs, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

As for potential Scottsh independence, I hope it doesn't happen, because the loss of any part of the Union will diminish the whole, but as I said, if that is what the people of Scotland want, then I support them 100%.

I have to admit that the SNP have been rather vague regarding funding, and I think that will come back to haunt them, in the referendum.

However, if the Scottish truly wish to go their own way, then I hope it is on good terms with the rest of the UK.
27 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
it should have been algamated 1,000 years ago
700 years ago,
300 years ago.

still we are what we are,
2014 will settle it.
/////////
did you know the distance between england and scotland, is the same distance between england and wales,

and yet they have not moved in a thousand years,
and come 2014,
they will still be the same distance as in 2013,

it is going knowhere,
we are going knowhere,
but together we can go anywhere.
just a british thought.lol.
28 redpoll (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
Clyde
Your friend in Fair Isle. is he a woolly jumper? Never mind mate, just winding you up!
29 Searinox (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
Don't worry, the english will find the way to steal a part of Scotland as they did with North Ireland....
30 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 09:38 pm Report abuse
go home 29
you are on the wrong blog.
31 Searinox (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:02 pm Report abuse
i wish you could say the same to the Chagossians....
32 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
ah see changy subjecty.
you never learn.
the brits will still be here centuries from now,

but will argentina. with CFK as itss head.
33 Searinox (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:09 pm Report abuse
really? i dont know about that...today Scotland...tomorrow who knows...the ego is characteristic of the British, it's a shame they need to steal to raise it...but well....“yoho yoho a pirate's life for me”... is your motto...
34 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:10 pm Report abuse
Idleheads: “While I don't believe it is in either sides interests to break up the union you'd more likely get a yes vote from England to kick out the Scots than you would a Scottish yes to leave.”

Clyde15: “It does smack of a particularly racist point of view that surfaces in the English psyche from time to time. Right enough, you have screwed out most of the oil revenues from us in the past 30 years.”

Idleheads: “Hmm - and yet you remain puzzled about why the English remain less than enthusiastic about poitical union with Scotland.”

LEPRcon: “Some of the most racist comments I have ever heard have been from Scots about the English. Some Scots appear to have some chip on their shoulders about the English, and I'm not sure why”

Shed-time: “Not unlike the unconstrained racism that Scots exhibit outwardly, from time to time, to the faces of English people on holiday.”

Conqueror: “ I will demand that Scots are excluded and removed from the UK. By force, if necessary. “Independent Scotland” will have to be treated as a threat. Something else for you to whinge about. I intend to see that “independent Scotland” leaves the Union with nothing more than it brought. In other words, debts!”

And @17, 18, 19, 20, 21.... etc, etc, etc, etc...

CAMERON: ““Put simply: Britain works. Britain works well.”

IT SUUURE LOOKS LIKE IT DOESN'T IT???????????????????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
35 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:19 pm Report abuse
33 and 34,
typicle throw mud to the wind and watch them all fight,
well it wont work, we see throw your provications,
and will only reply in kind,

still
look on the bright side,
matters not who gets the pie,
the fact is, argentina wont.
36 Searinox (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:24 pm Report abuse
pff you are so naive...¿why would a want to provoke in a blog?, you think it will change something in the referendum result? your inability to listen to anyone who thinks differently to you is what will lead to misfortune....you are doing exactly the same that took us to a crisis in 2001....but David Cameron thinks he is too smart....so let's see what happens...it is just question of time...
37 briton (#) Feb 11th, 2013 - 10:43 pm Report abuse
First off pff naive is for fools,
mr Cameron is not that clever, as a matter of fact he is the killer of the British military,

Ones inability to listen to others happens to be of fine china,
So let me suggest the following,

In 2014 there will be a referendum,
Scotland will vote and we will all abide by the result,
We all have opinions and you have yours,

And I always listen to others, do not you,

but we both know how sensitive this subject is, and some like nothing better to throw mud to the wind and sit back and watch the brits have a go at each other,

and for the record, if you read my bloggs on camaron, i do not like him, and never voted for him.
38 Clyde15 (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 12:06 am Report abuse
#28
In fact his family ran the Good Shepherd, before air travel reached Fair Isle. He worked with me in the Customs and Excise in Ayr , then went on to be the marine engineer on one of the Customs launches - the Vigilant I think. The last I heard he transferred to the
Isle of Man to the launch service.
I used to tell him that he should vote in Norway for the Viking independent party, as he was as near to them as mainland Scotland.
#9
Just to clear up a technical point about Culloden, if you read John Prebbles account of the battle you will see it left a stain on the British Army. No battle colours were ever awarded for this battle.
The British troops were NOT all Scottish. There were 11 English regiments (including Hessians, Austrians and Ulstermen) and 4 Scottish regiments and 1 Irish.
However it was not a Scotland V England battle but the last shots in a civil war to put a Catholic monarch back on the British throne. The bulk of the Scots were presbyterians and loathed Catholicism and the Highland clans who were regarded as outlaws. That is why the Royal Scots, a lowland regiment were there. In the long run it was a blessing that the cause was lost as we would have had a King who believed in “divine right”. It would be well over two hundred years until we got a ruler_M. Thatcher_who had similar delusions.
I would suggest that we cool this “debate ”down as it is giving our Argie chums a present by turning the heat off them.
For the record , I never voted for PM Cameron OR Salmond. I thought Angela Merkel would have been a better choice but she was not on my ballot paper.
39 XAVIERV (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 03:20 am Report abuse
Can anyone tell me, how will the new British flag? Because the current flag, we must delete the Scottish flag. Although to replace it, you could include a sheep in some southern colony .. Jajajaja
40 Anglotino (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 04:03 am Report abuse
Ummm yeah!

Next idiot please.
41 Nostrolldamus the 10th (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 05:41 am Report abuse
Just imagine... the Australians, New Zealanders, and all the others having to change their flags because of the the Scots, how fitting.

So much for being independent when another country determines how your flag looks!
42 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:01 am Report abuse
Ha ha ha

What happen now hypocrites English?

Don’t you like self-determination and a free Scotland?

They will be better off without the dirty English hands on them.

Why they have to pay the huge debt of UK when was a scam made in the city of London by Sirs and Lords?

Why they have to share oil revenues with England when they can use it all at home?

I guess that lazy English will have to find a job instead to live from revenues from other nations.

Sure Argentina strongly will give her support to the Scottish cause just to see the stupid English to take they own medicine.
43 Britworker (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:59 am Report abuse
@42
You are a dumb ass aren't you. The UK government has had more than it's fair share of Scottish prime ministers and politicians, Scotkand is equally as liable for any sovereign debt should they go it alone. The fact is that world is heading for a very uncertain future, I personally can't see the scots taking the gamble, all they have to do is look at Ireland with their population emigrating in their droves.
While Scotland is part of the UK it is part of a strong and powerful country, on their own they will be a small country with an economy the size of Latvia stuck out in the North Sea, with no certainties on their future.
As has been previously stated, the ship building will go and personally don't know of any major industry in Scotland other than the oil, which is well on it's way to running out.
All you have left after that is the tax revenue of 5 million people. The maths will prevail as the deciding factor in this matter!
44 Cloudwarrior (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 09:55 am Report abuse
@ 41 Nostrolldamus the 10th

“Just imagine... the Australians, New Zealanders, and all the others having to change their flags because of the the Scots, how fitting.

So much for being independent when another country determines how your flag looks.”

Please elucidate further on your logic for this.

Unless you can't and have just made yet another off-the-cuff remark!
45 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 11:32 am Report abuse
@ Britworker

No they are not...
First doesn’t matter if the PM was Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish or English born the debt is/was taken by UK as nation. So the liabilities will still remain over the rest of the members of the union.
And this is only the public debt and the total external debt?

So even through negotiations the Scottish will agree to pay a share of the debt will never be more than 62bn pounds. Dividing the whole debt by 5.1millons Scottish.

I cannot see the Scottish to be so dumbass to recognise more than that...

About the GDP Scotland has a total GDP of 250bn USD dollars not sharing the oil with the English their per capital will go to USD 49.019,60 they will be more productive and better off than with the rest of the union.

Abut “the ship building will go and personally don't know of any major industry in Scotland other than the oil, which is well on it's way to running out.”

This is not true first because they have all the installation there and the skilled work force, second why a company will move to other place? Has not economic senses.

And if you are talking especially of BAe system I remind you that the company is not British any more since long time ago belongs to Americans, Canadians and Italian investment funds. And they only look for profits so they wouldn’t mind to make ship for Argentina if it is profitable in Scotland.

Scotland for sure will be far, far, far, better off without the rest of the union and will have better options to make trade deals with others countries as UK policy have is increasingly alienating its self from Europe and SA.
46 Britworker (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 12:08 pm Report abuse
@45
Utter crap! You don't live here, it is in your interests to promote the split, which won't happen. The Royal Navy ships will not continue to be built in Scotland, the UK government would not allow a foreign country to build our ships.
Keep up the pretence! Independance has always stood at around 30% and that is where it still remains, even a year away from the vote. I don't want Scotland to leave the UK and I work with a great many Scots who don't want to split either.
Keep talking through your arse!
47 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
@Britworker

“I don't want Scotland to leave the UK and I work with a great many Scots who don't want to split either.
Keep talking through your arse!”

Doesn’t matter what you think Scots has their right of self-determination and they will be better off by leaving the UK.

They will have more and better business opportunities outside the union.

Just by splitting they will be better off as Scotland contributes with the 10% of GDP having only 8% of populations.

That means that contributes more than what is taking and can increase substantially its exports to Europe and SA.

“The Royal Navy ships will not continue to be built in Scotland, the UK government would not allow a foreign country to build our ships”

They are already allowed that as BAe System is an American, Canadian and Italian controlled company.

So your arguments lack of fundamentals.

Argentina supports openly an independent Scotland and its rights to Self D to become more prosperous and any other country within the union that want to do the same.

In fact can become a good business partners of Argentina.
48 Clyde15 (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
#47
Thank you for your support BUT we can live very happily without it. If it did come to pass then England, Wales and Ireland (N. & S ) would still be friends and business partners.
As for Argentina “beware of Greeks bearing gifts”
49 Idlehands (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
Timeo Argentinos et dona ferentes
50 DanyBerger (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
@Clyde15

Are you the PM of Scotland?

Sorry mate but I was talking to the honest hard working Scottish that is proud of Scotland and not to Sepoys and Brainwashed that will sell Scotland for few quids to the English.

Sure you will be happy to make the Scottish to pay the 10 trillions of dollars that the Sirs and Lords in London have borrowed in the name of UK through their banks.

Sure you will be more than happy providing cheap oil to England while your fellow Scot countryman can not find a job a has to emigrate to London to be humiliated by the English.

Do you know how tough is for a Scottish, Welsh and Irish to find a job in London?

I guess not.
51 reality check (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
Last time the Scots bumped (no pun intended) into Argentines being business partners was the last thing they had on their mind.
52 Monkeymagic (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
God, there is some utter rubbish written in this thread, mostly by our Argentine “friends”.

Most importantly, the likelihood of Scottish Independence is 3:1 at most best, and the Scots appear less keen on it than the English, which kind of pisses on the Argtard argument that somehow Scotland is part of an English Empire.

In fact, the most common and justifiable reason given for wanting a Scottish Independant Government is that the Scots never vote for a Conservative Government and often end up with one. The reverse is also true, England rarely vote for a Labour Government but often have one due to over-representation of Welsh and Scottish constituencies.

This political anomaly does cause a problem.

The other biggish issues would be around oil revenues, taxation, restructuring of UK assets and liabilities, membership of international groups etc etc. All possible if there was a will to do it. Would Scotland be better off? Would the rest of the Union...who knows...whatever the outcome folk would bitch it was unfair for years.

However, and I know Clyde will hate it being brought up, but the islands do pose an interesting conundrum. Why should their voice be ignored? Are they really an integral part of Scotland? bit of a spanner in Salmonds plans...LOL.

Schadenfreude really as my guess is the Scottish referendum will be an even damper squib than the “electoral change” referendum that the Lib Dems forced on the country, and told us we should all want.
53 Clyde15 (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 06:30 pm Report abuse
#50
Strangely enough I am not although the PM bears the same surname as me. Are you the PM of Argentina?
You seem to speak with some authority or is it bullshit

I cannot also say that I am a hard working Scot as I retired 11 years ago from HM Civil Service. Honest, as much as I can be but I thought the concept of that word was unknown in Argentina.
I have never seen a Sepoy in Scotland other than at the Edinburgh Tatoo. As to rainwashed, well you accept that if you live in our climate - it's good for the complexion.
By the way, mate, you are talking to yourself as I don't know any self respecting Scot who would give you or your crowd the time of day. The last time our countrymen met was on Mt. Tumbledown when the discussions were at bayonet point - we won the argument.
The Scots have a v-e-r-y long memory about these sort of things.

As to supplying cheap oil to England I was under the impression that it was oil companies who sold the oil. Whoever buys it will have to pay the same market price as everyone else.
The Scottish public will have no advantageous deal.
“ Do you know how tough is for a Scottish, Welsh and Irish to find a job in London?”
No more tough than an Englishman !

Not really more to say on this hypothetical subject.

No, only one more, we will be delighted to give the Falkland Islanders our expertise on drilling for oil in the sea as we have had 30 years or more of experience. Aberdeen University and technical colleges could train islanders in some aspects of oil exploration and extraction.

Try a new tactic Dany, this one has failed and played out.
54 golfcronie (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
Personally I think the Referendum in Scotland is all about Alex Salmonds ego. He, in my opinion wants to go down in history if Scotland cedes and goes it alone. I really do not think that they have all the facts yet, time will tell. If they want to go it alone good luck.
55 slattzzz (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
@53 from an Englishman who lives in Scotland well said.
Sure you will be happy to make the Scottish to pay the 10 trillions of dollars that the Sirs and Lords in London have borrowed in the name of UK through their banks.
Sure you will be more than happy providing cheap oil to England while your fellow Scot countryman can not find a job a has to emigrate to London to be humiliated by the English.
Do you know how tough is for a Scottish, Welsh and Irish to find a job in London?
Danny what a pile of shit. lets pick your shite apart one by one. Being part of Britain everyone will have to pay the debt, The Royal bank of Scotland had the biggest bail out.
Cheap oil my arse as Clyde says oil companys sell the oil not countries, the tax in Scotland is the same as the tax in England and Wales on oil so on to your next.
There are 100's of thousands of Scots, Welsh and Irish who live in London in fact if you knew what you were talking about you'd know there are Scottish, Irish and Welsh areas in London where everyone lives quite happily as is there in Scotland. Dalgety Bay in Fife is probably 50/50 English / Scottish because people go where there are jobs and the the best people get selected for those jobs, it's called democracy, and the one thing is we are all British, I'd love to give you the number of Scots that live on the South Coast of England and the amount of English that live on the West Coast of Scotland but I don't know but I'll tell you one thing it's a lot. Why because they fuckin can !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
56 DanyBerger (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 04:24 am Report abuse
Oh!

How nice you are with each other you were close to make me cry. Sniff

BS and lies like with the Malvinas cause.

Meanwhile in the real world Scotland going to a referendum to live the union and I'm very happy with that and sure Argentina will support the move.

In fact Argentina is ready to send a delegation to Scotland in 2014 to support the referendum.

Sure will be the first country in the world to recognise independent Scotland.

Happy independent days...
57 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 05:25 am Report abuse
@56 Dany

Argentina are quite welcome to attend and support the referendum in Scotland, it might be polite to be invited by the Scottish government though.

Which reminds me that another government holding a referendum has already invited the Argentine government to attend and even argue their case. It's much closer than Scotland.

Feel free to attend both.

Also, I am pretty sure the UK will be the first country to recognise an independent KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND.

After all, the KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND will be a COMMONWEALTH REALM and have a shared crown with the UNITED KINGDOM.

But please, feel free to line up in the recognition queue. It makes me wonder why Argentina hasn't recognised Kosovo and why they aren't so supportive of Catalonia's planned referendum.

I just love highlighting people's hypocrisy.

I will indeed be a celebration if and when the KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND leaves the UK.
58 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:33 am Report abuse
@anglotino

This really is an inferior “Dany ”
incarnation.
The last one had the IQ of a badger, but this one is as intelligent as a cake of soap.

Did you see his answer on the other thread, replying to my statement that the Referendum would be a good thing for the FI ??

He was trying to say it would be the same as him holding a referendum in London to join Pakistan!!

And I thought it was Nozzy who had reached an all time rock bottom of stupidity...

Sheesh!!!!
59 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:04 am Report abuse
Hey Troy

Yeah surely you have noticed the increase in La Campora/Argentine trolls on here. They remind me of flies.... usually hanging around a pile of shit and then try to spoil your day.

And I agree Dany is no challenge. But I just love that he leaves himself open with his lack of intelligence for all to see.

I mean, he thinks the Scottish referendum is a sign of British weakness. Ooooh Argentina will recognise an independent Scotland!!!!

OF COURSE IT EFFING WILL!

Duh!

So will the UK, Australia and every other country in Earth. Oh the stupidity of it all. No wonder Argentina keeps collapsing into an economic mess periodically.
60 Clyde15 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:32 am Report abuse
#56
You might wish to send a delegation but would we let them leave.
Remember the fate of the last Latinos that came to Scotland -the Ninth Legion of Rome - the came in and never got out.
61 DanyBerger (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 10:44 am Report abuse
@Anglotino

I guess that in Buenos Aires people are so busy to attend CaMoron/Hague cheap Stunts for local consumption.

But thanks anyway, may be next time when you do something serious...

@Troy Tempest

Of course is the same, I just have to find 2000 Pakistani and make a referendum asking if they want to be part of Pakistan or to be killed by the tram. What that would change?

Absolutely nothing like your stunt referendum.

So you can make all referendum you like nothing will change.
62 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 11:37 am Report abuse
Can someone translate the above post for me please?
63 DanyBerger (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:07 pm Report abuse
@Anglotino
“Can someone translate the above post for me please?”
what about “Post Above”, “above post” sounds yank or Pakistani mate..

ya ain't Englishhhh, r ya?
64 golfcronie (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:12 pm Report abuse
@63 Jesus Christ Dany
YOU giving English lessons, heard it all now. Either is correct.
65 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:33 pm Report abuse
OMG! Dany fails on so many levels even I'm embarrassed.
66 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 01:44 pm Report abuse
@61 dung burger

“Of course is the same, I just have to find 2000 Pakistani and make a referendum asking if they want to be part of Pakistan or to be killed by the tram. What that would change?”

Huh??? Tram?? What tram??
Ask 2000 Londoners if they want to be part of Pakistan? What do you think the answer would be??
LOL!!!
Explain the effects of the outcome of Falklands Referendum of the entire population and then the outcome of the 'soap cake' referendum.
67 Clyde15 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 01:58 pm Report abuse
#63
The preposition “above” would normally come before post in the above case. An English speaker would use it in this way.
However, the reverse would be acceptable in colloquial speech.

What is your obsession about Pakistanis, pyjamas and kebabs ?
You cannot seem to post anything without bringing in a reference to these.
68 golfcronie (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 05:15 pm Report abuse
Because he is racist and he lives in a shitty flat in London. His choice.

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