Tuesday, February 12th 2013 - 19:04 UTC

CPA regional conference on “self determination” takes off in the Falklands

The 43rd British Islands and Mediterranean Region Annual Conference (BIMR) of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, hosted by the Falkland Islands Government, opened in Stanley Tuesday morning. The theme of the two-day conference is “Self-determination and its role in self governance and devolution”.

Family picture of the CPA delegates in Stanley

Baroness Scotland of Asthal QC was the lead speaker on the first day

Delegates from around the world arrived in the Falkland Islands on Saturday.

Following an open ceremony which included entertainment by the Falkland Islands combined school choirs, the Plenary Session 1(‘Self-Determination and its role in Self Governance and Devolution’) was chaired by Margaret Mitchell MSP with the lead speaker being The Rt Hon The Baroness Scotland of Asthal QC.

Baroness Scotland is the former Shadow Attorney General and former Attorney General of England and Wales. The Baronness responded to questions from delegates from Scotland, Ireland and other represented countries and examined such questions as 'what makes a people'.

The Plenary Session 2 (‘Arguments about Self-Determination’) was chaired by MLA Mike Summers (FI) with Professor Michael Keating as the lead speaker. Michael Keating is Professor of Politics at the University of Aberdeen and the University of Edinburgh and is a Fellow of the British Academy, the Royal Society of Edinburgh and the Academy of the Social Sciences. He is the author of numerous works on nationalism, devolution, self determination and public policy.

Represented at the conference are Canada, Anguilla, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey, the Isle of Man, Malta, Northern Ireland, Scotland, St Helena, the UK and Wales.

On Wednesday Plenary Session 3: “The Right to Self Determination is not curtailed by Sovereignty Claims”, begins at 0900 chaired by MLA Sharon Halford and will include a speech written by Fabian Picardo Chief Minister of Gibraltar and delivered by the Hon Samantha Sacramento MP.

At 13:45 the Open Plenary: “Experiences in the Development of Greater Regional and National Autonomy” will begin. MLA Dick Sawle will Chair with Hon Isobel Ellul-Hammond (Gibraltar) as Rapporteur. Delegates will be given five minutes to speak by show of hands.

At 1500 there will be a round up of key points from conference with MLA Jan Cheek as Chair and Rapporteurs the Hon Juan Watterson MHK (IoM), the Hon Tony Wild MLC (IoM) and the Hon Isobel Ellul-Hammond (Gibraltar).

The closing session will be at 1530 with speakers Keith Biles, MLA Dick Sawle and The Rt Hon Sir Alan Haselhurst MP.

The Falkland Islands Branch has been a member of the CPA for many years, and regularly sends delegates to the Annual Plenary and Regional Conferences. The BIMR is made up of branches from Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, CPA UK, St Helena, Cyprus, Malta and the Falkland Islands.

In addition, the BIMR Annual General Meeting will also take place during the week, and Members of the Legislative Assembly will also meet privately with the delegation from UK.

The Regional Conference is hosted on a rotating basis, with this being the second time the Falkland Islands has hosted it. A total of 37 delegates are in the Falklands plus Representatives from Canada and Anguilla that will observe. The delegate’s respective branches meet travel costs, with the Falkland Islands responsible for local costs. (PN).
 

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1 briton (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
A picture that will go down in history,

democracy at work,
and not an argie in sight,

CFK will be fuming.
2 golfcronie (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:19 pm Report abuse
@1
I suggested that a delegation from Argentina ought to go to the FALKLANDS.
I was told that there was no room in the inn, I suggested that they could pitch a tent in one of the minefields that they kindly left for the FALKLANDERS, of course they didn't want to take that option
3 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:27 pm Report abuse
Very pleased that they held the conference in the Falkland Islands. It will stick in the throat of Argentina that all these countries recognise the Falkland Islands and their right to Self Determination.

A month to go and the world will know the wishes of the Falkland Islanders, that they exist and that they want to be a British Overseas Territory, self-governing and successful.
4 briton (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:27 pm Report abuse
shame that,
they could have gone out with a bang lol.
5 Brit Bob (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 07:40 pm Report abuse
It will make the tin man's little meeting in London look rather pathetic.
6 Boovis (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
But but all the world supports Argentina? So....?! :D
7 ChrisR (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
Is that the Governor on the far right looking furtively at the attractive lady in the orange dress?
8 briton (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
does she look better in the lower picture.
9 toooldtodieyoung (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
1 briton

I'm loving it!!! It puts those lousy “part-timers” in BA who are only “playing at politics” to shame.

I'm just waiting for the whinny-assed, ill thought out, badly thought out, Argentine response to this regional conference.....

You can see it coming a mile away.
10 briton (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Perhaps this meeting will show CFK how its done,
But like you say,
She and her government are going to totally misjudge this,
And the world will again be entertained ,
And all for free .lol
.
11 slattzzz (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 09:54 pm Report abuse
Go people put this colonisation shit to bed, they are what they are and don't want to be anything else, so fook off and cry into your water as you can't afford beer
12 HB_BB (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 10:57 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
13 screenname (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 11:21 pm Report abuse
@12: Maybe everyone fron the UK wants to repel you (I know I do).
14 Clyde15 (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 11:26 pm Report abuse
#12
There speaks the voice of Argentina'
Is it only from the UK or does Brazil count?
Naomi Campbell seems to be well considered by those who choose the world's top models. Jealous are we ?
15 golfcronie (#) Feb 12th, 2013 - 11:46 pm Report abuse
@12
Just shows your your countries true colours ( pun intended )
Typical on topic remark, where do they get these plonkers.?
16 Hepatia (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 01:26 am Report abuse
This is the sort of stunt that the late, but not lamented, USSR would pull.
17 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 04:30 am Report abuse
@Dany,Hepatia

“This is the sort of STUNT that the late, but not lamented, USSR would pull.”

Hmm, “stunt” seems to be the favoured Campora Troll-script word for the week.

:-D
18 LEPRecon (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:09 am Report abuse
@16 - Hepatia

This meeting has been on the books for months, if not longer.

You Argentines believe in 'last' minute stunts, but in the UK and Commonwealth, we believe in well thought out dialogue.

Who was it who refused to talk, despite claiming that's ALL they wanted to do?

Oh yes, it was your foreign minister, Mr Timerman, wasn't it?

Who was it who embarrassed Argentina in front of the international community, using politically motivated 'stunts' in the UK, all of which backfired on him? Oh yes it was Mr Timerman again.

Face it, your government is full of amateurish buffoons, who don't know how to act diplomatically, and the rest of the world looks on at them with a mixture of amusement, horror and disbelief.

So here we have a group of people who represent their countries meeting in, and recognising the rights, of the Falkland Islands.

What 'stunt' did your foreign minister pull again? His group of 18 that didn't represent ONE country, none of whom would even sign the lame document he produced. Yup, that one was definitely a 'stunt', and another one that backfired and made Argentina look amateurish and desperate in the eyes of the world.

Oh, and your foreign minister is also a liar (big shock there I know). He lied at the UN, he lied in London, and he lied in BA. He lied about Iran, he lies about the Falklands, and he lies about the state of Argentina.

No one in the world would believe this current group of muppets who call themselves the Argentine government, if they said water was wet.
19 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:13 am Report abuse
And what would they call that meeting they held recently with those fake high profile Europeans, at their London Embassy? A resounding Argentine diplomatic success. Jeez can not even stage a simple fraud and with all that money they have been able to steal too!
20 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:48 am Report abuse
Now that sounds like a stunt!
21 ChrisR (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 09:48 am Report abuse
But argies only ever do cunning stunts.

Got to get the letters the right way round with that one.

LOLs
22 Conqueror (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 11:42 am Report abuse
@16 It's good, isn't it? Just remember that this is organised by the COMMONWEALTH. This is the sort of event that argieland “might” be able to look forward to in four or five hundred years' time. So far, you've only reached the COMMON part. The concept of argieland and WEALTH doesn't really go together, does it? And please notice that everyone travelled to the FALKLAND ISLANDS. Not Neverland. Not Oz. Not any other make-believe name. Just look at all those people gathered together in the FALKLAND ISLANDS. Seems that they do exist!
23 kelperabout (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
Yes we do exist just like those Islanders that chose to go and live in Argentina. They exist because CFK has accepted them . strange old world we live in. Depends what ground you are standing on to become recognised by Argentina. So in a round about way we do actually exist in the eyes of Argentines.
24 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
The Commonwealth is a brotherhood of nations with a shared history and every one of them believes in democracy and self determination.

Argentina belongs to Mercosur & OAS, but the truth is that they automatically get membership of the latter, just because they are in the Americas, whilst they are a member of the former, simply because of their size.

The truth is that whilst other Mercosur nations pay lip service to Argentina, none of the other countries respect Argentina. Most have disputes with Argentina over trade and some even have/had territorial disputes in the past which led to armed conflict.

The other countries don't respect Argentina because the Argentines are arrogant, rarely have control of their economy, treat everyone else as someone to be exploited (Viveza Criolla) and expect other nations to bail them out whenever anything goes wrong. Argentines don't accept responsibility for their mistakes.

The Commonwealth helps nations speak to each other and benefit from shared ideals. The United Kingdom is the only member of the Commonwealth with a permanent membership of the UN Security Council. But other Commonwealth nations can use the voice of the UK to help represent their case.

The Commonwealth was formed by the United Kingdom voluntarily giving these states independence and allowing them to use self determination to form their own democratic nations.

The United Kingdom would give the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar the same if they wished. They would be given full independence if they wanted it.

Argentina would not give the same to the Amerindians, or the people of Patagonia, if they wished to break off from Argentina. Argentina claims that the Falkland Islands is part of their territory, but they would deny the Falkland Islanders the right to secede if they wished. That's because Argentina is not democratic. Argentina is still a society run by dictators, even though these dictators have the masquerade of elections to keep them in power.
25 Hepatia (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:39 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment216673: So its a well planned stunt. That is the sort of thing that the ex USSR used to do - organize a well planned conference to which the brought along the usual group. What's your point?
26 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
Anyone be bothered to answer this one, fed up of mentioning the now infamous, High Profile Euro 18!
27 Anglotino (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
Nope! Not me.
28 Musky (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
@25 Hepatia
Talking of stunts, how about the Olympic Hockey Player video!
Talking of stunts, how about the militia attack on the cruise booking office!
Talking of stunts, how about the CFK approaching David Cameron with some a letter listing resolutions.
Talking of stunts, how about the UN C24 committee and timerman/cfk refusal to talk with islanders.
Talking of stunts, how about the meeting between CFK and the new messiah Julian Assange.
Stupid Stunts, you're malvinista government is full of them.
29 Monty69 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 02:58 pm Report abuse
25 Hepatia

It isn't a stunt. The members of the CPA take it in turns to host regional meetings. It's the Falkland Islands turn. That's it.
30 Clyde15 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
#25
Have you actually read the mercopress article ?
This is a regular meeting held on an annual and rotating basis.
It was the Falklands turn to host it. Next year, somewhere else.
How does this constitute a stunt - it is called democracy, probably a word not quite understood in Argentina.

T6he delegates actually COME from the regions attending unlike Timermans conference“supposedly”representing European opinion and full of ex pat Argentinians who spoke with their masters voice. It could have been held in Argentina but NO, lets take it to the UK as a diplomatic act of bad manners and try to create as much fuss as possible whilst insulting the host country. That was a stunt, however it back fired and showed the world how juvenile and wanting are politics in Argentina.
31 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
Come back Mr Timmerman, things are getting very boring, we need more entertaining.
32 Searinox (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 03:47 pm Report abuse
“Delegates from around the world” ??? 12 delegates in which, there are colonies? haha
33 Hepatia (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment216863: Yet another page from the Soviet play book. They to used to rotate the conferences of their colonies among the several “republics”. One year in Alma Atta, the next in Baku and so on.
34 Clyde15 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 04:18 pm Report abuse
#33
Pointless trying to reason with you. It would take a pneumatic drill or dynamite to get anything through to you.
By the way, why do you keep pasting the mercopress reference every time you post.
YOU ARE ALREADY THERE AND EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE SUBJECT IS ABOUT !!!!
35 reality check (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 05:10 pm Report abuse
@32
At least they are not puporting to be who they are not, unlike your shower of dishonest sh...ts!
36 Monty69 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 05:15 pm Report abuse
33 Hepatia

Surely you can't actually be calling Malta and Cyprus 'colonies'. Can you? How about all the other members of the CPA? India? Singapore? Canada?

Stop embarrassing yourself.
37 golfcronie (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
How is it we only get the uneducated Argies on here, this is a forum for debate ( he say with tongue in cheek ). The Argies on here are like turtles on ice, thrashing around but getting nowhere
38 ChrisR (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
The idiot who cvalls herself Hepatia cannot even grasp the concept of how a 15% change from equally spread parties in a straight past the post election means the loser needs 30% to win the next election.

She keeps challenging me to get the UK to fix the elections!

Stupid is as stupid does and I no longer bother with her. I suspect that as a troll she gets paid more money if people react to her, just like the new pathetic Dany berger.
39 Hepatia (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:00 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment216915: How do you think they got to go to the CPA?
40 Conqueror (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
@32 Is your education up to providing an internationally-acceptable definition of “colony”? Let's hear it. No argie lies or propaganda permitted. Either could get you shot.
@33 What's your problem? You're using the Nazi playbook. “Government” by decree. A compliant “representative” assembly. Argieland calls it “Congress”. The Nazis called it the “Reichstag”. Government “rallies” controlled by government thugs. With the Nazis, they were called the SA. For argieland, its La Campora and Quebracho. Wherever they are, whatever they call themselves, all Nazis deserve to die. Nazis, Peronists, Justicialists, Front for Victory, Kirchnerists. All the same.
@36 Don't be hasty. I want to read hepatitis' explanation of how free, independent, democratic nations are “colonies”. Especially as one of them is the UK. How does a nation become a “colony” of itself?
41 Monty69 (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
39 Hepatia
Oh, I see what you're getting at.
So Argentina must be a colony of Spain then.

I can see that you are struggling to understand the idea of the Commonwealth, but you just need to try harder.
42 briton (#) Feb 13th, 2013 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
seeing as they have no idea what a democracy is , or even freedom to chose,
we expect nothing less,

either way, very soon they will see democracy in action,
and dispite all the insults and threats, there is nothing they can do about it.
43 Hepatia (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 03:24 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment216953: I suspect you are a European so your lack of knowledge about America can be understood. So I will give you some history. Some 2 centuries ago America (or most of it, at least) became independent of Europe mainly as a result of revolutionary wars. So, Argentina is explicitly not a colony of Spain and it owes no allegiance to that or any other European country.
44 Rufus (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 12:54 pm Report abuse
@hepatitis

The meetings of the CPA British Islands and Mediterranean Regional Conferences were in...

1980 Cyprus
1981 Gibraltar
1982 Jersey
1983 UK (i.e. London)
1984 Guernsey
1985 Cyprus
1986 Gibraltar
1987 Isle of Man
1988 Jersey
1989 UK
1990 Malta
1991 Jersey
1992 Guernsey
1993 Gibraltar
1994 Isle of Man
1995 UK (i.e. London)
1996 Malta
1997 Cyprus
1998 Guernsey
1999 Gibraltar
2000 Isle of Man
2001 Scotland
2002 Wales
2003 UK (i.e. London)
2004 Falkland Islands
2005 Jersey
2006 Malta
2007 Northern Ireland
2008 Gibraltar
2009 Guernsey
2010 Isle of Man
2012 Scotland
2013 Falkland Islands

So it's an obvious propaganda move to benefit the Falkland Islands, and not a way of making sure that the meetings always happen in the same place or anything...
45 row82 (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom? YES or NO

www.facebook.com/questions/477553115645297/

Join the debate on www.facebook.com/Britain1592

Falkland Islands Desire the Right!
46 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 14th, 2013 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
@43 Hepatia

”en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment216953: I suspect you are a European so your lack of knowledge about America can be understood. So I will give you some history. Some 2 centuries ago America (or most of it, at least) became independent of Europe mainly as a result of revolutionary wars. So, Argentina is explicitly not a colony of Spain and it owes no allegiance to that or any other European

Canada and Australia seperated themselves, bloodlessly, with no revolution, from the UK.
They are both in the Commonwealth.
Are they Colonies???

The UN C24 doesn't think so.
47 Hepatia (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 12:12 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment217472: Both Canada and Australia are royalist countries (can you believe it!). But they both have as their monarch not a Canadian or Australian but a foreigner - the queen of England to be exact.

In any case, in the current context, the question is whether Las Malvinas is independent. The answer is no.
48 Monty69 (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:08 am Report abuse
47 Hepatia

Nobody has said that the Falklands are independent.

The question, in this context, is whether all the other countries in the Commonwealth are 'colonies'. The answer is no. Most of them, including Canada and Australia, are independent sovereign nations. They choose to have the Queen as head of state. They are no more 'colonies' than you are and they don't owe 'allegiance' to anybody.

I know that is very hard for you to understand. Most former British colonies didn't have to fight to get their independence and many still have a very good relationship with Britain. You might not be able to 'believe it', but it is a fact. That's why we and other British Overseas Territories are happy to stay that way.
49 Hepatia (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:30 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment217656: This must be yet another difference between America and Europe. In America the concepts of independence and sovereignty, and having a foreign head of state are immiscible. So, for instance, the US will never have a foreign head of state. And, to Americans, those states that do are explicitly not sovereign or independent in a political sense.

Whether a state attained independence by revolution or not is not relevant to this point.
50 Anglotino (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:57 am Report abuse
Hepatia

You seem unable to learn much - actually considering your replies I'd say slow and dimwitted.

Australia actually has its own Queen. The Queen of Australia. She is not a foreign head of state. She is shared though. It is difficult for people with little education to get their head around the Commonwealth Realms so I won't bore your short attention span with it.

I guess we aren't as racist as you. I mean my prime minister is Welsh. 25% of our population is born outside Australia but are now Australian.

No matter what. Our system works better than yours. No coups. No juntas. No rigged elections. Just peace and prosperity.

There's not a single country in the Americas outside of Canada that has a political system as stable as ours.

Try to besmirch it all you want. Your opinion is unimportant and the proof is in the pudding.

Pudding you can't have!
51 kelperabout (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 10:59 am Report abuse
44 Rufus (#) Think you will find that there is no consistant rotational order for meetings but that of agreement between the members according to their other annual commitments. Some members just as in many other organisations for various reasons cannot have meetings in their Country at a particular time so it is moved down the line to the next and so on. Happens the Falkland is one place that does not have as many pr arranged commitments and was available. Just so happens it was taking place in the same year as the refferendum. These venuse are booked years ahead so there could not be pr-planned campaigns.
Argentina of course will never acept that statement because in her eyes we do not exist.
52 Hepatia (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 02:45 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment217677: My system, as you term it, has not yet produced a coup. So hard to say what you are talking about.

You can make all the semantic arguments you wish, like by introducing concepts such as the “Queen of Australia” the fact is that she is the Queen of England and is resident there. The problem is that when the national interests of England and Australia diverge she is the Queen of England. It is not necessary to know too much about Australian and Canadian history to know that this has already occurred.

So Australia and Canada are independent just so long as they tow the English line. This may be why Australians are sometimes referred to in the US as “South Sea Englishmen”.

Both Canada and Australia are countries that draw immigrants from countries all over the world.. Yet neither of these countries derive their sovereignty from these immigrants. Instead they both rely on a foreign queen for their legitimacy.

And then there is the fundamentally undemocratic nature of the royalist system. (At least in Australia the senate is elected and so is more democratic than Canada and the UK).

In America independence and sovereignty mean something very different to the meaning that UK citizens give these terms. This is why Americans say no to the UK's attempt to perpetuate the royalist and imperialist system in America. And it is for this reason Las Malvinas will be be returned to Argentinian sovereignty.
53 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 03:41 pm Report abuse
Wrong yet again Hepatitis.

The Americans respect the British system, because although they like the idea of electing a new chief executive with new ideas, they know that our Queen has decades of experience as head of state behind her & leaves the politics to politicians. Each of her prime ministers can draw on her experience, but none of them can get away with the sort of corruption seen in Argentina or other South American states.

Best of all, if the politician is acting against the public interest, the monarch still has the power to dismiss parliament & call an election, to let the public be heard. The armed forces may take their orders from the politicians, but the monarch is their ultimate commander & if politicians refused to comply with the law, the monarch can restore order. Not that this would ever need to happen though. Every British politician is aware that if they fail to comply with the law, act corruptly, then they would face dismissal It's called Separation of Powers.

Your suggestion that the United States is against a royalist system is totally false. Canada has just such a system, yet the USA has never sought to change them.

Moreover, the Monroe doctrine was in effect in 1833, yet the United States did not invoke it - because they declared the Falkland Islands to be Res Nulis or British territory.

The United States does not get involved in the Falklands dispute for obvious reasons. As a member of NATO, they are obliged to aid & assist the UK. On the other hand, they are also a member of the OAS, so they do not want to upset other American states.

On the historical side, it was the actions of Vernet in pirating 3 American ships which precipitated the USS Lexington raid. Argentina has continued to claim compensation for this, which the United States refuses to pay. If the United States ever supported Argentina's position, then they would be obliged to pay.

Most of all the US does not support Argentina because they support Self Determination.
54 kelperabout (#) Feb 15th, 2013 - 04:43 pm Report abuse
just how many power Countries actually support Argentina. 1982 they claimed to have the support of many but in reality those Countries were waiting to see who the victors were then very quickly came out in favour of Britain.Chances are many so called supporting ountries of Argieland are going to think the same this time round. There is to much at stake now. OIL is going to draw countries towards the Falklands and Argentina knows it.
55 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 02:47 am Report abuse
Oh Hepatia you have such a childish outlook on the world.

I told you you wouldn't understand the Commonwealth Realms and you proved me right.

There is no such person as the Queen of England which is just the start of the falsehoods you spew. You obviously have no idea whatsoever about how Australia's constitutional system works. Google 'crowned republic' to get a better idea.

And the most enjoyable thing is that you keep showing that with every reply.

Until you explicitly say your nationality, you are Argentine. And therefore your system has produced a coup six times in the last 100 years.

Argentine democracy is no match to Australia's. Not only we were the first country in the world to come about by a vote, but we are one of the oldest continuing democracies as well.

And additionally stop making shit up:
”Australians are sometimes referred to in the US as “South Sea Englishmen”.

When? In 1833?.

As for the Falklands retuning to Argentine sovereignty. How can something return when it never was. And Argentina can't do anything about the islands eventually independence because they never have up till now. Argentina is powerless.

Wow the Argentine trolls truly are piss-weak in their arguing skills. The government should pull back on the indoctrination of students and let them think a little so then they won't keep getting their arses kicked in fora such as this.
56 Hepatia (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 03:38 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment217826: No doubt that Americans respect the British system in Britain. However, Americans are far less tolerant of European efforts to colonize America.

Your statement regarding US / Canada are simply not true. You have apparently forgotten the articles in the NYT in about 1971 / 1972 (IIRC) about Plan Red which caused a fair ruckus at the time. Incidentally, the British planned to abandon Canada in the event of the execution of Plan Red - it simply was not sufficiently important to them.

The present “Special Relationship” that existed between the US and the UK (and Canada) is a result of WWII and the cold war. But WWII and the cold war are over. Over the next century the US will return to America. The first intimation of this return is the US policy of “Pivot to Asia”.

The Monroe Doctrine, when it was promulgated, was an American doctrine. It was later distorted by Teddy Roosevelt and successors in a way that has been, in my opinion, very counter productive for the US and America. The final distortion was an attempt to extend it to the whole planet (aka the Bush Doctrine) which killed it as far as the US was concerned. There have a number of articles in FA and similar publications announcing the death of the Monroe Doctrine - but these miss the point. The doctrine has returned to America with some writers now even referring to it as the Lula Doctrine.

Brazil does have certain national ambitions. And key to those will be its ability to control the South Atlantic.

Incidentally, the UK has recognized the Monroe Doctrine. For the first 50 odd years of its existence it was the power that, for its own reasons and with its own distortions, enforced it. People forget that, at the start of the US Civil War, the US Navy could not even enforce a blockade against the CSA!
57 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:51 am Report abuse
OMG Hepatia, are all Argentines as facile as you?

Plan Red!

Last updated in NINTEEN THIRTY FRACKING FIVE?

Please tell me you can't be this stupid. Argentina was dumping civilians out of planes not even 35 years ago and you drag up something that was first developed 75 years ago.

Did you know tha since that plan was approved in 1930 that Argentina has had SIX COUPS?

That was also FOUR currencies ago.

Back in 1930 Argentina didn't even claim the Falkland Islands.
NATO didn't exist.
The EU didn't exist.
The United FRACKING Nations didn't exist.
There was only about 80 nations.

It is no wonder that Argentina periodically crashes it the quality if Argentine intelligence in these fora is any indicator.

1930. I'm laughing so hard I need to pee!
58 Hepatia (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 01:09 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment218140: I am not talking about the past. I am talking about the future and putting that in a historical context. Specifically I'm talking about the return of Las Malvinas to Argentina within the next 25 years so that you people in the UK will not be surprised when it happens.
59 Clyde15 (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
#58
The return of the Malvinas within 25 years--OK I will play along with your scenario. I have asked you how this will take place and have been told that the UK will give Argentina trillions of dollars and that 2 - (sorry you now need 3 ) Argentinian policemen will arrive and take control.
Either you have made a fatuous statement or you are mentally unhinged.
So, the UK will realise the cast iron integrity of Argentina's case and acquiesce OR ???????????
What is your scenario in the case of the UK's non-compliance with Argentina's wishes -not demands..
For argument's sake, I am assuming that the UN has made no ruling that the UK should hand over sovereignty.
60 Anglotino (#) Feb 16th, 2013 - 11:20 pm Report abuse
Clyde15

Yes I too would be interested in what the consequences are of non-compliance with this mystical transfer of sovereignty and payment of compensation.

I love now Hepatia puts it so far in the future that she doesn't have to worry about what happens when it doesn't eventuate.

I'd love to hear how the timeline of this is going to play out for example:
2013 Referendum is a success
2014 Argentina devaluation and IMF suspension
2015 Argentina's economy collapses (again)
2016 La Campora junta takes power
2017 Oil starts flowing
2018 Falkland population booms while Argentine population falls due to emigration
2019 Argentina blockades the islands and fails miserably
2020 Argentinaattemots invasion of Chile to reclaim 'lost land' and is routed. Argentina loses Tierra del Fuego province to Chile.
2020 FIG starts paying all defence costs and begins a massive defence purchase programme
2021 La Campora is ousted. New democratic government promises to peacefully recover lands lost to Chile and Britain and disowns actions of junta

Around and around we go.

Keeps going until 2033. Independence as a Commonwealth Realm with King William V, King of the Falkland Islands with a GDP per capita 30x Argentina's

I'd just love to hear how Hepatia's delusion is going to come about.

I think mine are more likely.
61 Hepatia (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 02:17 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment218394: The UK will return Las Malvinas to Argentina because it will be in its national interest to do so.
62 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
Hepatitis

You are deluding yourself, because none of the others on this discussion board accept what you say.

It is in the best interests of the Falkland Islanders to do what they want to do. Neither the United Kingdom or Argentina or the United Nations can decide their destiny. Only the Falkland Islanders will say what happens next.

There is no way that Argentina can force the Falkland Islanders to become part of their country.

If they haven't become part of Argentina in the past 25 years, what makes you think that you can force or persuade them to become part of your country in the next 25 years?

You can forget about nuclear blackmail. One of the other posters on this board supports a 100% Argentine home grown nuclear defence policy, but he is also deluded. The other South American countries would not allow Argentina to have nuclear weapons. Indeed, both Brazil & Chile would invade Argentina if there was the slightest indication that Argentina intended to produce a weapon, as it would be a breach of Protocol I of the Treaty of Tlatelolco.

Argentina cannot use force to compel the Falkland Islanders to become part of Argentina. Firstly the United Nations would not allow them to be subjugated. Secondly, the United Kingdom would respond to any armed aggression.

In the next two decades the Islanders are very likely to become extremely wealthy due to the oil revenues, so there is no way that the Islanders would want to see that wealth handed over to corrupt politicians in Buenos Aires.

The Islanders will use their oil wealth to develop their Islands and secure them so that Argentina can never threaten them again. Other countries in South America, such as Brazil, Chile and Uruguay will see the benefit of trading with the Islands, not just the oil, but also supplying other goods. Any agreement that Argentina has right now through Mercosur will be put to one side.

You are living in a fantasy if you think the Falkland Islanders will ever become Argentine.
63 Troy Tempest (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
@61 Hepatia

“The UK will return Las Malvinas to Argentina because it will be in its national interest to do so.”

From the projected timeline @60, it sounds like the best interests of the UK will be served by retaining them as a BOT until they want Independence.

Please explain why it is in UK best interests to give them to Argentina?
How is that better for the Islanders than Independence and Commonwealth affiliation?
64 Clyde15 (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
#61
It's like talking to a plank of wood !!
When asked why, numerous times, the answer is “because I say so”
Here endeth the correspondence on this subject.
65 Anglotino (#) Feb 17th, 2013 - 07:46 pm Report abuse
Agreed Clyde15!
66 Hepatia (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 01:08 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment218665: I am talking about the national interests of the UK, not the interests of the “Falkland Islands”.

I do not expect Argentina to persuade the squatters on Las Malvinas to do anything. The return of Las Malvinas will present a social and political problem for Argentina.

The use of force will hopefully not be necessary and will be limited only to that required to suppress any terrorist activity.

P.S. Do you suffer from Dyslexia?
67 Anglotino (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 03:46 am Report abuse
“The return of Las Malvinas”?

I don't think Argentina will ever have to worry about social, political or terrorist problems on the Islands because they will never be part of Argentina.

Hepatia continues to work under some delusion that the Islands are going to become part of Argentina.

No reasons.

No process.

No logic.

Just talks as if it is a given fact and then tries to engage in discussing the consequences and results of this.

Take a deep breath and step back Hepatia. One question:

HOW THE FRICKING HELL ARE THESE ISLANDS EVER GOING TO BECOME PART OF A DYSFUNCTIONAL COUNTRY LIKE ARGENTINA?

I've tried to ask politely in the past but some trolls just seem too dimwitted to understand.

HOW?
HOW?
HOW?
WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
WHEN?
WHEN?
WHEN?

Oh btw I'll start being polite when you stop being stupid.
68 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 10:36 am Report abuse
Hepatitis

The inference from your post is that Argentina would use force to obtain the Falklands.

You say that 'Hopefully' it will not be necessary. The inference is that if things do not go as you hope, then force will be used instead.

Your suggestion that you would use force to suppress terrorist activity infers that the population you subjugate rebel against you, that your invasion is unwanted.

You still haven't learnt from 1982 that force can NEVER be used to subjugate people. Nearly a thousand people had to die for Argentina to realise that the last time. How many more Argentines have to die before you grow up and realise that you can never invade and seize the Islands?

By carrying out a unilateral action in '82, Argentina interfered with any process in the United Nations. Argentina then defied the resolutions of the Security Council by refusing to withdraw.

If you continue to threaten the use of force, or infer that violence would be carried out against the Islanders, then the United Kingdom is obliged to defend the Islanders with all means necessary. It goes without saying that you would never recover the Islands, because the rest of the world would never let aggression succeed. It is in every nations interest to deter or oppose aggression by other states.

People like you are the reason that the United Kingdom has to maintain a base on the Falkland Islands. People like you are the reason that 649 of your own countrymen died in 1982.
69 Hepatia (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment218849: The situation will be that it will be in the UK's national interest that Las Malvinas be returned to Argentina.

P.S. You have no reason to fear me. I have no executive power WRT Las Malvinas or Argentina (or any other country) and I have no particular interest to either of these entities. I am merely a commentator.
70 ChrisR (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
A lot of people think you are merely an idiot.
71 Anglotino (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
+1
72 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 18th, 2013 - 11:20 pm Report abuse
+1
73 Hepatia (#) Feb 19th, 2013 - 12:55 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment219062: BTW I saw in the WP the other day that Malaysia picked up an Australian Senator on a terrorism charge. I suppose that if Australians want to elect terrorists to their senate it is a matter for them. But one commonwealth country trying to infiltrate terrorists into another commonwealth country is a serious matter. So, I think it is fair to ask, will Australia be infiltrating any terrorists into the commonwealth meeting on Las Malvinas?
74 Anglotino (#) Feb 19th, 2013 - 04:09 am Report abuse
ChrisR

I'd like to change my +1 to a +2 if possible.

This troll is even dumber than I first thought.
75 Hepatia (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 01:17 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment219209: Further, will the “Falklands administration” be detaining any of the Australian delegation?
76 Anglotino (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 04:07 am Report abuse
Oh Hepatia
I wish I could explain it to you in simple terms. Simple enough for you to understand.

What Australian delegation to the Falklands. Do you read the article?

And ask yourself (or do some research) why was Senator Xenophon banned from entry? Terrorism? The truth might hurt your ego a little bit considering your continual talk about democracy.
77 Hepatia (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment219516: I'm not surprised that there is no Australian delegation. I'm sure the super vigilant Falklands administration would capture or kill them if they tried to land.

The WP reported that the senator was on a terrorist watch list. I'm sure that this is correct - after all Malaysia is a “democracy” and a member of the commonwealth. And it is a royalist country. So it has all the best attributes.
78 Clyde15 (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 04:58 pm Report abuse
#76
Why read the article when your prejudices may be compromised! A typical Argie poster - don't let facts get in the
way of your airy-fairy notions.
From the Argie book for Trolls. If your posting is refuted, change the subject and obfuscate replies until your opposition haven't an effing clue what you are talking about.

#77
What are you talking about ???????
Represented at the conference are Canada, Anguilla, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey, the Isle of Man, Malta, Northern Ireland, Scotland, St Helena, the UK and Wales.
Where does it mention Australia or Malaysia ?
79 ChrisR (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
74 Anglotino

Yes, I agree.

I spent lots of effort trying to get the concept of a 15% swing in a first past the post election means the losing side then needs 30% to get bak to their original position.

Absolute waste of time; 'she' retorted that I had better fix the errors in our electoral process before commenting on other countries!

She is rivalled only by our old 'friend' Steve(no suffix) who I see is back to spread his own type of logic around again.
80 Anglotino (#) Feb 20th, 2013 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
@79 ChrisR

Hepatia is all over the place. But I just enjoy giving her lengths of rope to hang herself.

“The WP reported that the senator was on a terrorist watch list. I'm sure that this is correct - after all Malaysia is a “democracy” and a member of the commonwealth. And it is a royalist country. So it has all the best attributes.”

I mean have a look at the above paragraph.
“the senator was on a terrorist watch list”

The senator was on a SECURITY watch list! But she doesn't ask why because the truth would make her look stupid. What did he say to get put on that I wonder?

“Malaysia is a “democracy”
Yeah sure it is! It says it is so it must be true. Typical ignoramus. I wonder if North Korea's regular elections make it a democracy? I also wonder if she even knows why Senator Xenophon was in Malaysia?

”member of the commonwealth“
Don't fully understand this point. I've never claimed that every Commonwealth country is good.... or a full democracy either.

”And it is a royalist country”
Umm I think she means monarchy. It is indeed. However it is not a Commonwealth Realm so it isn't part of my monarchy.

It's like Hepatia listens but then the important function of assimilating new information is missing. Brain damage perhaps?

Hepatia thinks this in incident makes Australia look bad. Her failure to understand this incident occurred because if a LACK of democracy actually makes Australia look even better.

She is actually praising an Australian senator's stance on democracy and doesn't even realising it.

Considering Malaysia is ranked just a but lower than Argentina in the democracy index and nowhere near Australia or the UK, it isn't surprising she keeps highlighting her own stupidity.

I don't want her to stop because I enjoy highlighting it so much.
81 Hepatia (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 01:30 am Report abuse
en.mercopress.com/2013/02/12/cpa-regional-conference-on-self-determination-takes-off-in-the-falklands#comment219650: It a good thing that there are not attending. We don't want Australian terrorists in Las Malvinas.
82 Anglotino (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 04:04 am Report abuse
And there you have it everyone. Hepatia just resorts to being a ridiculous troll when faced with facts.

Yes Hepatia it is indeed a good thing that your version of Australian terrorists are not getting anywhere near Argentina. After all, it's their job to highlight autocratic tendencies, undemocratic behaviour by incumbent governments, extra-judicial activities by groups such as La Campora, attacks on freedom of expression and on and on.

Now I understand why an Argentine such as yourself sees them as terrorists.

Such principled people must indeed strike terror into your heart and your government.

Thanks for once again showing the differences between our countries.
83 Clyde15 (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 11:19 am Report abuse
#82
Trying to reason with Hepatia is like being trapped in a revolving door!!
84 nigelpwsmith (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 02:28 pm Report abuse
@82
Clyde is correct. Hepatitis is typical of your average Argentine. Brainwashed & unwilling to consider anything except their own version of the world, determined to recover the Islands at any cost, even war and the total destruction of Argentina as a nation.

You'd get more sense talking to a plank of wood quite frankly.

The vast majority of Argentines have been indoctrinated at an early age. I would even go so far to suggest that this propaganda has all the characteristics of what happened in pre-war Nazi Germany.

Argentina is an economic mess. Their country will fall apart on its own, because they are not willing to do anything to solve it. They expect other nations to bail them out, or do another bond issue in the vain hope that they will find willing punters/victims.

The end for them might be sooner than we think. I cannot see TMBOA staying in the casa Rosada much longer & when the financial markets are closed to them & people start leaving the country out of hunger or to find work abroad, then another mafia group will take charge.

You have to wonder if Argentina's problems are inherent in their Spanish heritage (just plain lazy) or if they inherited most of the criminals that Italy tried to get rid of, but the United States would not take! Either way, Argentina is a society where it is every man for themselves & forget about the weak (or prey on them), where it is OK to steal from your neighbour, so long as you can get away with it.

Let's face it, they robbed Repsol/Spain of YPF, they robbed the bondholders of repayment. Who's next? Chile? Uruguay? They know they cannot have a go at Brazil & although they would love to have another go at invading the Islands, their military has been neutered to ensure that their leaders don't wake up in a military prison cell.

Let's face it, give it another 5 years and posters like Hepatitis will be broke, starving and desperate to sell/give up the claim to the Falklands for a few loaves of bread!
85 ChrisR (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
84 nigelpwsmith

But I would put money on 3 Para, 42 Commando and the Gurkhas wanting a rematch to finish the job off properly.

Afghanistan has always been seen as a lost cause and an unwinnable action. They would have a real chance to end the amtter in favour of the Islanders once and for all.

84 nigelpwsmith

But I would put money on 3 Para, 42 Commando and the Ghurkhas wanting a rematch to finish the job off properly.

Afghanistan has always been seen as a lost cause and an unwinnable action. They would have a real chance to end the matter in favour of the Islanders and SA in general once and for all.

Perhaps something will happen and give us the excuse to do it.
86 Anglotino (#) Feb 21st, 2013 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
Thanks guys!

I know there is no way you can reason with people like Hepatia, but everyone else can watch the repeated slap downs.

She effectively neuters herself!

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