Friday, November 22nd 2013 - 03:46 UTC

“Argentina is on fire because of inflation” says leading businessman

Fiat Argentina CEO Cristiano Rattazzi said that “Argentina is on fire because of inflation” and called on the newly appointed cabinet chief Jorge Capitanich and Economy minister Axel Kicillof “to work hard to bring inflation down”.

”Anybody doubts that inflation in Argentina is not the 10% Indec tells us?” asked Rattazzi

 “Inflation according to different estimates is in the range of 20 to 30%, only below that of Venezuela, 54%, and Sudan a country in war” pointed out the head of one of the leading manufacturing companies in Argentina. He was speaking at a seminar organized by a financial publication.

“I call upon the new authorities to bring inflation down to one digit, if not, it is not healthy for the country or long term planning; the country is on fire because of inflation”.

This is not the first time the leading businessman and a member of the family which owns Fiat has warned about inflation. However this time it was done before a relevant group of domestic and international corporations' leaders and a few minutes after cabinet chief Capitanich had announced that a new CPI, Consumer Prices Index is in “the final stages of elaboration”.

Inflation and GDP information had become strongly questioned under former Domestic Trade Secretary Guillermo Moreno, to the extreme that even the IMF had censored Argentina because of the controversial and unreliable Indec indexes.

“This story does not stand for ever”, recalled Rattazzi who a month ago during another business conference publicly warned about the implications of the inflation problem. “Anybody doubts that inflation in Argentina is not the 10% Indec tells us?”, he asked the forum at the time.

Cabinet chief Capitanich was quoted saying that “government has reiterated on several occasions that the new inflation index is a question of time, in its final process, so most probably it will be ready and implemented in the first quarter of next year and thus it is a point that belongs to the objections from the past”.

Rattazzi and the Argentine automobile industry are very much concerned about inflation and the so called 'Argentine cost' since the sector is responsible for 6% of the country's industrial GDP and 1% of national GDP, plus the main item of manufactured exports.

47 comments Feed

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1 DanyBerger (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 05:18 am Report abuse
Well you asked for it you get it...

Lets open the imports of cheap cars from China with 0% tariff and you will see how your problems over inflation will be resolved in a minute RataSi.
2 Leiard (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:13 am Report abuse
@1
What a great idea Dany!
3 Viscount Falkland (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:15 am Report abuse
Burn,Burn, Burn
4 Orbit (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:49 am Report abuse
So you would bankrupt the Argentine automobile industry to spite a foreigner. Is that you Cristina?
5 golfcronie (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:50 am Report abuse
@2
I second that, what a twat is Dany, good way Dany to lose 1% of national GDP. You could be compared to Einstein, perhaps as you are so good at economics you should take over from Killitoff.
6 Biguggy (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 11:03 am Report abuse
@ 1
I believe that is the stupidest statement I have seen Danny post and in view of some of his earlier posts that really is saying something.
7 Britworker (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 11:17 am Report abuse
Like a drug addict, you can't start to deal with a problem until you accept that you have a problem. Argentina can't accept their own truthful inflation figures, therefore the problem won't be resolved, no matter how many CEO's and business leaders state the obvious.
Better to deflect the problem by drawing the Argentine peoples attention 400km out to sea.
8 golfcronie (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:04 pm Report abuse
How is it that they ( Argies ) cannot see they have a problem, they think by saying the opposite of the truth , somehow it will go away. Mind you they are Latins, you only have to look at the Mother countries.
9 CabezaDura (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:40 pm Report abuse
8)
It's not that people have their heads in the sand. It's a matter of a ideological dictatorship that these things happen and social apathy. Some time ago in the mid 2000s they really believe it is important for a country to have a emblematic airline that was not in the hands of the Spaniards or any foreigners
10 Welsh Wizard (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:41 pm Report abuse
I'm interested to see what this new inflation index is like and what numbers it is going to give....
11 yankeeboy (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
If they start hyperinflation the car mfgs will pull out.
And I will laugh.
12 pgerman (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
@ Britworker & golfcronie

“They”...the argies...we are well aware of the inflation. Every single time my relatives go to the supermarkes to buy supplies they noticed a new change in the prices of basic products.

The fact is that CFK and the government have forged all the data. The inflation rate is forged, that affects the data of the GDP growth that is forged, the reserves of the BCRA are also forged, the unemployment is also forged....
13 willi1 (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
capitanich: “... that the new inflation index is a question of time, in it´s final process, so most probably it will be ready and implemented in the first quarter of next year...”
that´s it: the same timetable as used by ck: next, next, next....
stick them all into a bag, hit it, you always hit the right.
14 nigelpwsmith (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
Argentina cannot solve the inflation problem while the chief cause is still resident in the Casa Rosada.
15 yankeeboy (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:42 pm Report abuse
They have no intention of diving inflation. They also don't know how. They're 2 yes behind Venezuela.
There's no stopping this train.
16 Klingon (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:44 pm Report abuse
Hopefully we get hyperinflation. I just bought a new Toyota and spread the payments out over 4 years.
17 golfcronie (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
@12
I appreciate what you are saying, then why aren't the Argentinians changing the government? Is the problem that the problem cannot be solved, so all lawmakers are kicking the can down the road. Unfortunately the can stops when it can no longer roll. What credible opposition has the government?
18 Briton (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 02:09 pm Report abuse
Argentina is on fire

And these argie bloggers thought CFK was hot..lol.
.
19 Leiard (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
No doubt that our resident Argentine finacial guru Dany will tell me I am reading the wrong newspaper.

Cronista headline:-
“Subsidies: in only nine months have surpassed the amount spent on all 2012”

Aerolineas Argentinas ($ 3,500 million) - US$ - 575 million

www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/-Subsidios-en-solo-nueve-meses-ya-superaron-lo-gastado-en-todo-2012-20131114-0057.html
20 MagnusMaster (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:20 pm Report abuse
@17 we aren´t changing the goverment because we want CFK to finish her term. An impeachment is impossible and the last thing we want is another overthrowing. Well, I´d like one, but the people don´t...
The people don´t care about inflation as long as they earn money. That was the case until 2012, which is why we have to deal with CFK now. The Kirchners knew that people don´t care about inflation as long as they have a job and money to buy stuff (even in hyperinflation years mind you), that´s why they didn´t keep it under control. That would require cooling down the economy and who wants that? Neither the politicians nor the people want that. Until 2012 nobody, not even Ratazzi, was really worried about inflation now it´s too late.
21 ChrisR (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:43 pm Report abuse
Even FIATS built in The Dark Country have nothing to fear from the Chinese crap.

The Chin cars LOOK pretty, the interiors look welcoming and then you try driving them. Oh dear!

Bits fall off them; they cannot climb hills because their tiny little engines have no torque available and before you know what is happening you are stirring the gearbox to find a gear the “engine” can pull in.

BUT, and it is a really big BUT, there are NO spares available for these vehicles, not in Uruguay anyway.

So what may look like a “bargain” turns out to be anything but.
22 Conqueror (#) Nov 22nd, 2013 - 04:17 pm Report abuse
@1 I don't understand your “problem”. Isn't China a “partner”? Doesn't argieland have a credit agreement with China? If argieland admits its 27% inflation, the “price” of Chinese cars can be reduced. Perhaps China would pay argieland to take them? Here's a thought. You like to beat the system with your criminal money-making schemes. Perhaps “the system” has beaten you. Could it be that, with all our experience, you actually don't know best?
23 DanyBerger (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 12:19 am Report abuse
Every time anyone complains about inflation I will open the import for their sector causing deflation just in their sector.

That will set a good precedent for the next idiot.
In 6 months they will be begging for inflation.

Ha ha
24 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 05:51 am Report abuse
23Dany Dumberger

“Every time anyone complains about inflation I will open the import for their sector causing deflation just in their sector.”

Dany, do you really have the power to do that??
You must be important in Argentina!!
Did Kissmeeoff learn everything from you, then??
25 ChrisR (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 09:55 am Report abuse
@ 23 DanyBerger: The Dumb Version

You really are stupid if you think TMBOA © ChrisR 2011 would even THINK of giving up her “little pocket money” she gets from import levies.

Plus, if we follow your feeble mentality, FIAT may indeed lose business and your citizens would lose their jobs you plonker.

Next time you walk anywhere, look down at your feet and see how they go one foot followed by the other foot and then TRY to think one step ahead before you post this crap.

Better still, bring back the semi-intelligent version of the “DanyBerger” tag: at least we could hold a semi-intelligent dialogue with him.
26 DanyBerger (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 10:58 am Report abuse
@ChrisR & Co

Cristina is soft for may taste she wants to govern while being loved.
I don't want to be loved and if you fear me even better.

You will learn my way or will suffer. Humans tent to become more collaborative with tough leaders. Like in the army.

I now perfectly the consequences of this and they know also the consequence of this too.

This Rat Asi is like these fats men that having 250 kg of weight complains about the taste of the food he is eating thanks to the sacrifice of the rest of the family.

A good low calories diet for awhile will be the best learning lesson to make him understand how bad could be the world.

Yes many will lose their jobs and will be in the doors of Rat-Asi making pickets and burning his factories instead of being in my door claiming for inflation.

Then all them will come to me asking to protect them from nasty unfair Chinese car producers.
Ok boys you know that I'm a so sentimental person and I am always willing to help people in trouble and the weak.

But you have to offer something in exchange lets say 2 years salaries frozen and a substantial drop in car prices to make people happy and drop inflation that you were after all complaining before.

It a fair deal what do you think?

Can you see I always win.

First Dany lesson if you try to erode my power I will crash you without hesitation.

Still some Danny mate no other could be so pragmatic and liberal in this forum I guess.

ha ha ha

Warning!!!!
These link many be contains content in other language other than English. “NO dogs, Monolinguals and Dumbass allowed to watch it”
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqXHckx7zls
27 ChrisR (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 02:33 pm Report abuse
@ 26 DanyBerger

FFS stop drinking or smoking what has addled your brain. And learn English at least to the level of the real DanyBerger.

Idiota.
28 axel arg (#) Nov 23rd, 2013 - 09:40 pm Report abuse
DON'T CRY RATAZZI, AND KEEP ON COUNTING YOUR MONEY.
If ratazzi is so worried about inflation, then i hope to hear soon his declarations criticising the usuall abuse of dominant position by the most important corporations of the country, in an economy like our's which is mostly oligopolic and foreign, in such important sectors like food and metal mechanic. Otherwise, he should shut up, and keep on counting the money that he earns thanks to the policies of the government that he often criticises.
In the actual context of the argentine economy, there are no progresist measurers in order to finish with inflation, especially for a government like c. f. k's. Actuall inflation is consecuence of the abuse of the huge oligopolic corporations that we have, which usually increase the prices of the products without making enough inverstments, and it's also because of the insufficient controlls by the state in order to avoid those abuses, and punish the corporations with that behaviour.
Conservative parties know perfectly how to reduce inflation level signifficantly. In fact, they have always done it, every time they opened indiscriminated imports of cheap products, which decimated our national productions, and finally provoked high levels of unemployed people.
The only one thing that c. f. k. can continue doing, is to mitigate signfficantly the effects of inflation, like work negotiations which give important rases to most workers, beside, it's also necesary to fight against those bussinessman who have workers who are undocumented.
29 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 02:22 am Report abuse
28Axle Aarrrgh

Idiot.
It is not the fault of the corporations.

Your Peso is fallng like a stone.
Every finished product or raw materials they import cost more and more.

As the workers who produce your domestic goods get a raise in wages, time after time, the cost of your locally produced goods go up.

If the government forces the companies to freeze prices, while the costs of production in materials and wages keeps climbing, soon the corporations will go bankrupt or close shop = no employment, no taxes, no goods
30 DanyBerger (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 09:34 am Report abuse
@Troy Tempest

What “axel arg” is saying is complete true but I don’t agree with his method to deal with the problem of car price rising.

If the problem would be the devaluation of the peso, that will affect prices in the same level for everyone using imported raw material. Right?

Cars in Argentina have an integration of 30 to 50% of imported parts mostly can be supplied from Argentina. In fact motors and gear boxes which are the most expensive parts in a car and complex to do are already made in Argentina and exported by some carmakers like VW and GM.

Now lets see I use a row material that is imported from Europe and lets say is the 99% of the component of the product I sell. Then of course has to be industrialise but basically all is made from this component.

So for me from last year the cost of buying the same raw material had increased 20% mostly due to dollar/peso devaluation.

OK no problem the cost of industrialising this has more or less remains the same.

So as you can see the dollar devaluation has affected more to me than Carmakers. Right?
I buy another raw material here in Argentina and the cost is half of the European but unfortunately what I most use has to be imported.

Anyway car/vans, etc prices since last year have risen for some local made models to 50%/ 60% and 80% why?

Because the demand is fuelling and carmakers are not willing to produce more it is that simple because they are quite comfortable with trade barriers.

Another thing is that they are reluctant to buy the same auto part made locally why?
Because headquarter tells local branches where to buy.

May be some manager of Renault, Fiat, etc has an auto part business somewhere?

Who knows?

So lets open the import of cars from China and we will see how prices fall immediately.

And “Rata” Si will be the first in the queue asking for protection.

No pain no gain. Who said that?
31 ChrisR (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 02:43 pm Report abuse
@ 30 The Dumb Ass of The Dark Country.

Argies are very conscious of their position in the society they live in and will spend what it takes to keep in that society.

The only people who will buy this Chinese crap will be those who could not afford a better car.

YOU might want a Geely or Chery, but NOBODY in their right mind would.

So I would buy one if I were you and you can wonder why people are pointing at you and laughing while you are driving it to the next breakdown.

You really are a dumb ass, probably even more than Axel.
32 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 05:14 pm Report abuse
30 Dany

“Anyway car/vans, etc prices since last year have risen for some local made models to 50%/ 60% and 80% why?”

Dany, please show evidence of this.
50%-80%, over how long???
This sounds like a 'domestic' problem, no outside influences...

It seems that your prices are equivalent or better, than US prices for many cars.
ie. the Mini at US$19k in AR vs. US$22,000 in the USA.
Of course, that's only if you pay in US$ cash, not Pesos ($37,000) according to the article below:

mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-14/bmws-gaining-bitcoin-like-appeal-as-cpi-hedge-argentina-credit.html

Naturally, all your domestically manufactured and produced parts will go up substantially in price, probably 25% per annum. Your workers are granted wage increases to keep up with inflation, the world's highest after Venezuela. That's a cost that must be passed on to the consumer or the company will stop producing them before they go bankrupt.
33 cornelius (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
Inflation is a tax on the poor and working class the economy in Argentina is run by stupid people.
They run the economy not base on pragmatism but ideology base on populism Argentina is on a death spiral hard to steer back to sanity.
34 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
Inflation needs to be stopped somehow.

Hard choices will be needed. This will be followed by hard times for most people.
When the devaluation comes, those who have not safeguarded their wealth in gold, commodities, consumer goods, or foreign currencies, will be hit the worst.

The Luxury Tax will make it more difficult to save.

When the collapse comes, the really wealthy (CFK, etc.) will be able to pick up assets for deeply reduced prices, while the Working and Middle classes will be able to afford nothing.
35 axel arg (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 08:08 pm Report abuse
If people like TROY TOMPEST or CHRIS R, don'tagre on my analysis about inflation in argentina, they have right to explain their opinions, but they don't need to insult me, as they did in some their answers. Insults are the proof of the lack of solid arguments. Anyway, they are not an exception in this forum, because unfortunatelly there are many other reactionary people like them, whose comments are based mostly on insults.
I usually read in the comments of the forists that arg. should devaluate it's currency, however what they ignore is that the peso has always had small devaluations, in order to preserve the competence of our productions before imported products.
Perhaps what they ask, every time they refer to a devalution, is a very big one, as some other that we had in different contexts, which would be the most backward measure that any government can take, due to a big devaluation is regressive not only social terms, but also in politic terms, because it generates dramatic social crisis, in fact, all government which provoked high devaltuation couldn't finish their administration. Maybe that's why those forist recommend a high devalutation, because they know that if c. f. k. decides to impement that mecanism, she will have to leave office before 2015.
If there are some sectors of our economy which have problems of competence with their productions, a big devaluation is not the only one solution, in fact it's necesary to think and implement policies which improve the competence of those products, like cheap credicts funded by the state.
A big devaluation just benefits the dominant sectors of our economy.
Some people in ths forum shoud be more reponsable before giving opinions about our structural problem, or unless they should investigate more abot them, because this is evident that they have just a too partial knowledge about the falencies of our economy.
36 Anglotino (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
Axel Arg says:
“in an economy like our's which is mostly oligopolic and foreign”

Umm how is it mostly foreign? Argentina only has US$110 billion in inward FDI Stock.

This compares to Chile with US$206 billion and Colombia with US$111 billion which I am told by our resident economic expert are smaller economies than Argentina.

They don't seem to have a problem.

“Conservative parties know perfectly how to reduce inflation level signifficantly. In fact, they have always done it, every time they opened indiscriminated imports of cheap products, which decimated our national productions, and finally provoked high levels of unemployed people.”

We did this in Australia and have lower unemployment and lower inflation than Argentina. Why didn't we have this problem?

Perhaps other countries are just better economic managers? Because every single excuse given for economic problems in Argentina somehow only affect Argentina that way.
37 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2013 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
35 Axle Aarrgh

“If people like TROY TOMPEST or CHRIS R, don'tagre on my analysis about inflation in argentina, they have right to explain their opinions, but they don't need to insult me, as they did in some their answers.”

Well Axel,
I did insult you AND I did explain why you are wrong, using basic laws of Economics.
I challenge you to refute what I have said, using solid arguments, instead of “fingerpointing” to outside influences.

Other resource-rich, and not so rich, countries and economies manage themselves successfully, according to Supply and Demand economics.

You, on the other hand, try to blame everything on the clichéd “oligarch corporations”, sepoys, and illegal workers.

Please re-read @29 and offer some real arguments.

“Idiot.
It is not the fault of the corporations.

Your Peso is fallng like a stone.
Every finished product or raw materials they import cost more and more.

As the workers who produce your domestic goods get a raise in wages, time after time, the cost of your locally produced goods go up.

If the government forces the companies to freeze prices, while the costs of production in materials and wages keeps climbing, soon the corporations will go bankrupt or close shop = no employment, no taxes, no goods”
38 yankeeboy (#) Nov 25th, 2013 - 12:33 am Report abuse
Funny, I didn't know Oligarchs cornered the market on Tomatoes..
Bahahaha
I am so confused I am not sure who has the crown for the dumbest Rg on the board. Is it Toby, Dany or Axel they better watch out CD is gaining on them!

Axel, I still think you'll be lucky to make U$250/mo by the end of the year. I've got another 5 weeks...but I am not that far off now am I?
39 DanyBerger (#) Nov 25th, 2013 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
@Troy Tempest

“Dany, please show evidence of this.
50%-80%, over how long???
This sounds like a 'domestic' problem, no outside influences...”

I won’t because...
1-You can do the same research on line if you are interested in it. Don’t be lazy.

2-Someone that says that the rise in salary of 25% in industrial sector will increase in 25% the final cost of the product has no idea of what he is talking about.

And will be a complete waste of time...

3- Is not true that salary have risen to 25% it was just 17% as you can see the Agreement below. www.uom.org.ar/documentos_varios/ACUERDO%20SALARIAL%202013.pdf

“We did this in Australia and have lower unemployment and lower inflation than Argentina. Why didn't we have this problem?”

Yes but at what cost?
Pure debt Australia external debt is more than 97% of its GDP. Also influx of foreign capital had overvalued the Australian dollar. What makes harder for companies to compete in price abroad.

Exports have drop from 2011 to 2013 U$s12,8bn juts in one year

Australia economy measured in PPP gives just $986 billion
Nominal GDP $1.542 trillion
Eternal debt $1.497 trillion

Don’t you think there is something wrong with your numbers?
40 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 26th, 2013 - 12:29 am Report abuse
@39 Dany Debtload

““Dany, please show evidence of this.
50%-80%, over how long???
This sounds like a 'domestic' problem, no outside influences...”

I won’t because...
1-You can do the same research on line if you are interested in it. Don’t be lazy.”

Dany,
I don't believe you, you're lying.

How did you arrive at your figure?
“50-80% ” is crucial to your argument, and you say you won't provide proof , yet you took the time to cherry-pick a link to one labour agreement.
Not very consistent, are you??

@39 DB
“2-Someone that says that the rise in salary of 25% in industrial sector will increase in 25% the final cost of the product has no idea of what he is talking about.”

That might be true in an economy where the currency isn't dropping through the floor steadily, and the government isn't pushing up wages across all sectors in an attempt to match an inflation rate of 25-27%.

However, in Argentina, where industrial labourers' wages go up at one supplier, and at every other supplier of parts or raw materials, you have an increase not only in the labour itself, but materials, transportation, taxes, fuel, money lending... in fact, there are very very few 'fixed' costs at all, anymore.

The Luxury Tax and the 'Dollar Clamp' with a black market for $US don't help either.

Corporations manufacturing or importing products, lose 'real' value almost immediately in an economy with 27% hyper-inflation, if those products sit any length of time as unsold inventory.
They have to increase prices to cover those losses.

Perhaps this is all too complex for you, or perhaps you are just acting thick because it doesn't fit your model.

You seem to have some real problems and I don't see a way out.

How soon before CFK starts dictating prices, like Maduro?
What will happen then, to your corporations and your employment?

mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-14/bmws-gaining-bitcoin-like-appeal-as-cpi-hedge-arg
41 DanyBerger (#) Nov 26th, 2013 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
@Troy Tempest

Your argument is not true because simple you obviously have no idea of the impact of labours cost is in a finish industrialised good.

So your argument only could be valid for the service sector that labour cost represents most of the service provided.

If FIAT produces 150.000 cars per year and only has 3000 workers that will give as the average production of 50 car per worker (per year). So with an average worker salary FIAT gets 4,167 cars per month. Right?

So if basic salary is $5000 plus contributions from FIAT as employer that are average 23% plus social items that will not exceed 30% then you have non contributed charges, lets say another $1400 etc you will have a Ar$7900 average salary per worker.

This is the average salary cost for blue-collar workers.

Lets be super generous and I lets say that FIAT gone crazy and pays 3 times that salary that will be Ar$23.700 for worker and that will be Ar$5.687,54 for each produced car.

So in US dollar would be a salary of U$s3.950 is very crazy having into account that FIAT salaries in Italy are average is U$s1200.

Now lets take an average selling price of the FIAT model Siena that is Ar$87.000 per unit.

Most cars are sold through FIAT AUTO PLAN this is a Ponzi scheme where FIAT directly sell you a car that plans dealers only receive a shitty commission for each car sold this way.
The factory gets in advance the full payment in cash for each unit.

So tell me how much represents salaries for each car sold by FIAT according with you even given them a salary of U$s3.950?

Not even 10%, So salary rising only will affect at worse 10% of the cost of the car not the 100% and that is the same in all manufactures sector. Labour cost for an industrialised product always represents an average cost range of 7% to 15%.

“Perhaps this is all too complex for you,..”

Nope seems too complex for you because you have no clue about what you are talking. Or perhaps don't fit your your silly model.

SYL
42 axel arg (#) Nov 29th, 2013 - 03:00 pm Report abuse
TROY TOMPEST.
If you don't agree on my analysis, sorry. I don't now why i should make the same lecture than you and viceversa.
In my comment 28, i explain the reasons why we have inflation in the country, especially the behaviour of oligopolic sectors of our economy, which won a lot of money thanks to the policies of kirchnerism, but who don't make enough inverstments, and prefer increasing the prices of the products.
ANGLOTINO.
You insist one more time with your tipicall irresponsable analysis.
Not all economic programms can work in all the nations, the comparisons that you make between arg. and chile is very irresponsable, maybe a free trade agreement had a relative succes there, and i am respectfull of all sovereign decisions, but in arg. it didn't work in absolut, and i already told you why.
Read my comment 29, and you'll see the reasons of inflation in the country.
43 yankeeboy (#) Nov 29th, 2013 - 04:45 pm Report abuse
If there is any wonder why Argentina has currency/balance of trade/Inflation crisis every decade or so one just has to read the posts on this thread.
WhoTF teaches economics there?
My cat has a better sense of how an economy works than these idiots.
44 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 29th, 2013 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
41 Dany Debtload

You have wilfully ignored the point of my post.

Argentine prices are going up.

Why?
Because your currency has devalued by 30% this past year, exceeding your ANNUAL inflation rate of 23% - 25% for the past two years.

Backed by unions,
Kissitoff has scoffed at the perils of inflation, saying it doesn't matter as long as wages keep pace.
That seems to be their policy.

In your economy, wages are NOT the only thing driving up prices.
At the official rate, 6 per US dollar, your pesos buy 30% less, and they trade on the Black Market at 10 per US $.
Imported materials and finished products cost more, for you.
Locally produced products face wage costs, materials costs, transportation costs, taxes, money-borrowing costs. Prices have to rise to keep up - and they obviously have - 25%.

A Mini in Argentina costs no more than a Mini in the USA, as long as you buy it with US $$$, but nearly twice as much if you use AR Pesos.
Similarly, using your “FIAT” model, yourAR$87,000 Sienna at the official exchange rate, is $14,500 US - a price not out of line with the rest of the world, but it is the 'real' value of the goods.
It shows that your goods are NOT artificially high in price.

Please show me how the “Corporate Oligarchs” are at fault or your prices have been raised by them “50-80%”, where it was not the fault of your fiscal policies and currency devaluations over the past few years.

Maybe you were mixing up your theories, a “FIAT currency” is a currency with no backing.

m.ibtimes.com/brazilian-real-venezuelan-bolivar-argentine-peso-drop-against-us-dollar-what-does-devaluation-mean

42 AXLE
“In my comment 28, i explain the reasons why we have inflation in the country, especially the behaviour of oligopolic sectors of our economy, which won a lot of money thanks to the policies of kirchnerism, but who don't make enough inverstments, and prefer increasing the prices of the products.”

K's pals who got rich from their policies and stole money.
45 DanyBerger (#) Nov 30th, 2013 - 07:44 am Report abuse
@Troy Tempest

Why you like to talk about things that you don’t know?

If for me that I use a row material that is 90% of the final product I produce only represents 20% cost increase just over the raw material, why for a car that more than 50% is made in Argentina rises 80%?

I will tell you why...

Inflation is a good excuse to increase earning margins the difference is that if I increase my price too much I will be close to the cost of the imported manufactured stuff so that is my limit.

But carmakers are protected with a 35% trade barrier plus a limited quota.

“A Mini in Argentina costs no more than a Mini in the USA, as long as you buy it with US $$$, but nearly twice as much if you use AR Pesos.”

That is not true a mini car as you said cost more in Argentina in US dollars than in USA.

I was seeing a z1000 kawasaki that I want to buy the cost in Argentina is Ar$175.000 in US dollars would be U$s28.594,77 OER
moto.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-484330910-kawasaki-z1000-_JM

In US cost U$s10.999 so lets say that the difference is U$s17.595,77 any good explanation of that?

Mini Cooper
auto.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-485831610-mini-cooper-paceman-0km-2014-entrega-inmediata-real-_JM

$470.000 U$s 76.797,38

Anyway I will not pay for this shit even U$s5k because if awful car and seems to be made in 1970.

Ah!

Yeah whatever you say but you always wrong.

I will import the bike by my self or go so US and buy the bike there and I will take a 6 month vacation ...

Will be cheaper I guess...

SYL
46 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 30th, 2013 - 08:25 am Report abuse
Dany debtor
You said, “That is not true a mini car as you said cost more in Argentina in US dollars than in USA. ”

Bloomburg says,
“Mini Cooper sales rose 54 percent in January to April from a year earlier. A Mini Coupe costs 194,000 pesos, or $37,072 at the official rate of 5.2380 per dollar. It costs $19,400 at the parallel rate at 10 pesos per dollar, cutting the price in half for Argentines who have savings in dollars and go to the black market to sell them for pesos. The same model in the U.S. costs $22,150.”

mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-14/bmws-gaining-bitcoin-like-appeal-as-cpi-hedge-argentina-credit.html

Not that you could afford to buy a BMW as a hedge, or even a Mini.
47 MagnusMaster (#) Dec 01st, 2013 - 10:25 pm Report abuse
@43 “ WhoTF teaches economics there?”

The goverment buys most economists at media and universities so they support government policies AND convince the people the government is doing the right thing. The economists know they are saying lies and half truths at best, but they cannot convince the politicians to properly manage anything (tecnocrats can advise, but have ZERO say on anything, and politicians just do what they can to steal more) and they aren't allowed to say the truth anyway. That's why most economists in Argentina either studied abroad or at least got that economics in Argentina is just fancy way to disguise propaganda. Worst of all, even though the elites in Argentina know this, NOBODY points this out, not even the opposition.
It's accepted that economics is just political propaganda disguised as science, just like it's accepted that political ideologies are just convinient delusions people have so they can be selfish without feeling any guilt, and that people always believe whatever will benefit them economically, not truly believing in any ideal.

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