Monday, December 16th 2013 - 16:43 UTC

Falklands: formal UK protest to Argentina over oil bill: Argentine law does not apply in the Islands

The United Kingdom formally protested on Monday to Argentina about the passing of an amendment to the hydrocarbons bill which seeks to criminalize individuals or companies with involved in hydrocarbons activities in Falkland Islands waters, insisting that Argentine law does not apply to the Falklands and the Islanders right to develop their hydrocarbons sector.

FCO Director for the Americas Kate Smith made the formal protest to the Argentine embassy

 The formal protest was done by FCO Director for the Americas, Kate Smith, to the Argentine Chargé, Oscar Horacio Galli, and refers to an amendment to the Hydrocarbons Law No 26.659, revealed a Foreign Office spokesperson.

“Argentine domestic law does not apply to the Falkland Islands, so this is a baseless gesture intended to deter legitimate commercial activity. We are confident it will not succeed. It is shameful that Argentina is once again adopting bullying tactics in an attempt to strangle the Falkland Islands economy, said the FCO.

“The British Government fully supports the rights of the Falkland Islanders to develop their hydrocarbons sector for their economic benefit. This right is an integral part of their right of self-determination, which is expressly contained in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. All hydrocarbons activities on the continental shelf of the Falkland Islands are regulated by legislation of the Falkland Islands Government, in strict accordance with the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea.”

Last 27 November the Argentine Congress amended Hydrocarbons Law 26.659 introducing criminal definitions and punishments of up to 15 years in prison and fines equivalent to the value of 1.5 million barrels of oil for those engaging (directly or indirectly through a third party) in any type of hydrocarbon exploration, extraction, transportation and/or storage activities within the Argentine continental shelf without authorization by Argentine authorities.

The Falkland Islands Government has already firmly rejected the applicability of this law to its territory and waters

120 comments Feed

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1 Brit Bob (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
Ban Ki-Moon confirmed on 12th November 12, that the UK was not in breach of ANY 'relevant' UN resolutions over the Falklands. Therefore, hydrocarbon activities in Falkland waters has absolutely nothing to do with Argentina.

If Argentina has a problem with UK/Falkland companies exploring for hydrocarbons their only course of redress is via the UN ICJ. But perhaps this will expose 'the Great Malvinas Lie?'
2 Boovis (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 04:57 pm Report abuse
As much as I support the Falklands' cause, if the laws don't apply to the islands then why is the UK even reacting? It won't apply, therefore not enforceable, therefore nothing will happen? Who cares, we shouldn't even give them the time of day.
3 Anbar (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 05:03 pm Report abuse
..because in some legal instances not replying can be taken as tacit acceptance.

therefore you squash that publicly.
4 Gordo1 (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 05:11 pm Report abuse
It is time that the UK authorities take some sort of action against the “payasadas” of Argentina.
5 Faz (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
The trolley dolly will have a predictable response. She will have to come up with something other than chicken or beef, tea or coffee or any duty free?
6 GFace (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 05:14 pm Report abuse
@2 Boovis: Try this analogy on for size: Bob up top here, lives in New York. You visit Bob's fine adult drinking establishment and toss back a couple and go back to your home in Florida. I sue the sinful pants off of you from my home in Adair County, Kentucky for breaking our law (thankfully, I live there no more than Bob lives in NYC). And in this globalized world since we are all six-degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon (like bacon with your breakie? Then hey, we're closer than you think), your assets as they intersect with mine are... well.. mine. Yes, its silly. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, not even the inbred boobs there would dare try it it even if they were creative enough to think it up. [Yet mind you, there are analogous trial balloons on the booze topic being floated in more politically sensitive dry counties.] BUT... if you do business in that backward corner of Kentucky, you are going to think twice about having a good and profitable time in Manhattan -- even if you are a teetotaler.
7 Conqueror (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 05:18 pm Report abuse
@2 This is not a diificult concept. If you let another state create “legislation” that “supposedly” affects your territory and you don't object, you can be seen as condoning it. Therefore, it has to be publicly stop-punched at the outset. Why didn't we “stop-punch” argieland in '82? With bases on the Falklands, we could have turned argieland into a wasteland! And we should have.
8 golfcronie (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 06:45 pm Report abuse
@7
Have to agree, ungrateful buggers, they should be forever beholden to the UK for not actually going after their pathetic infractructure, it was as I understand it, that the US asked the UK to desist from taking the war to the mainland.
9 Philippe (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 07:09 pm Report abuse
The so-called Malvinas Islands is a silly invnention, and they only exist in the imagination of “some” Argentineans. The Malvinas do not even exist in fiction
literature. In “Don Quixote”, at least, there is the Island of Barataria “governed”
by Sancho Panza. No, the Malvinas are not even fiction.
The Falkland Islands are the real thing, and nothing but the Falklands!
Who can take seriously a backward, underdeveloped country like Argentina?
No kidding,

Philippe
10 nigelpwsmith (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
@2
As the others have pointed out, if you allow another government to make laws which affect your country, then unless you have protested this, you would find it difficult to refute these laws in the International Courts.

The point here is that these laws are deliberately intended to hinder any firm that assists in the exploration & extraction of oil or gas around the Falkland Islands.

As you know, a number of US firms have heavily invested in this enterprise. Although they do not have any ongoing business in Argentina, they might have contracts with multinationals that do - be it in oil exploration equipment, or the eventual processing or retail of oil products that originated in the Falklands.

So if an oil multinational has retail outlets in Argentina, the Argentine Government could seek to confiscate them or bring a law suit for the amount of oil purchased from Falkland fields. By protesting these laws diplomatically, the United Kingdom has laid the ground for the multinational to claim that it does not apply to them.

If Argentina tried to impose any fine or legal claim on the company, then they could take the matter to the courts stating that any fine or seizure was illegal. Argentina's seizure of YPF will come back to haunt them in the near future.
11 ChrisR (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
The FCO have handled this correctly inasmuch as it embarrasses The Dark Country at the international level and especially in the global oil business.

The stupid people of Venezuela and their like probably see it as a positive “Law” but no-one else will.

Perhaps Gollum 2 in Spain may think there is mileage in the idea and want to try it on Gibraltar. However, one Spanish guy posted in the Telegraph today that nobody is fooled by “the fools in charge” and was incandescent that the government are encouraging, by their actions, the use of the old saying “Corrupt has seven letters just like Spanish”.

He cannot stand living there whilst Rajoy and Gollum 2 are in charge, so guess where he lives? Yes, you have guessed it, London!

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10520587/Demolition-risk-for-British-owned-homes-in-Spain-a-substantial-problem-says-Foreign-Office.html

I wonder if “Jim from Madrid” will believe me now?
12 Briton (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
Why bother telling someone something they already know,

They will either just ignore you,
Or enforce their law upon you,

Fully supporting you, and doing something is two different things,

Perhaps what the government could have said, was,

The only way you can or will ever enforce your law on us, is to,
Send argentina police or troops or court bailiffs to the uk, or to the Falklands,

And in doing so, you would most likely be arrested by OUR laws,…lol.
.
13 lsolde (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
Lets pass a heap of ridiculous laws about Argentina.
No cars allowed on their highways on a sunday, for example.
l know that its being as childish as them.
ldiots
14 José Malvinero (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
If Argentina law “does not apply” in the Malvinas Argentinas Islands, why do a “formal protest” to Argentina? Idiots.
15 Troneas (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 09:55 pm Report abuse
the day will come, perhaps 5 or 10 years from now, when an unsuspecting contractor or oil exec lands in argentina and goes straight to prison for his past actions in this illegal operation.

britain can and most likely will stamp its feet whilst arguing that argentina's law doesnt apply in malvinas but in the end, there will be little they can do.

the UN considers the islands a “disputed territory” and according to argentina's constitution, they are argentinean soil.

tough luck.
16 Steveu (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:03 pm Report abuse
@14 Just to make sure that everyone understands that Argentina has no jurisdiction over the Falklands and its territorial waters (as laid down in the Laws of the Sea). As another poster has said - to not protest could imply tacit acceptance (in much the same way that Argentina made no serious protest between 1850 and 1941). As your country refuses to take its case to the ICJ, I cannot see how it thinks it can pass such a law and expect to be taken seriously as a G20 country.
17 Britworker (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:07 pm Report abuse
@15
One would think that imposing this ridiculous law after your economy has collapsed would be tinkering while Rome burns.

We don't give a toss about your laws, they are meaningless to us. It would be just the same if The Falklands imposed their laws in Argentina, it is so childish but so Argentine.
18 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:10 pm Report abuse
@14 José
“If Argentina law “does not apply” in the Malvinas Argentinas Islands, why do a “formal protest” to Argentina? Idiots.”

José,
Why make a formal protest?
It's been explained several times in these previous posts:
#3,6,7,10.

Of course, I don't expect you want to admit it's the best thing to do.
19 Swede (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
@15
Yes, perhaps they they could do that. In that case perhaps the UK could aswer by imprisoning some Argentines (for espionage or whatever). Then there could be an exchange of prisoners in “cold war style” (like Glienicke Bridge, Berlin) “one ”oil exec“ for one ”spy“”.
20 Troneas (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
@19. no that is not possible.

they would be fabricating inexistent crimes.

argentina is not fabricating crimes - the law is there; it has been passed and published. whether you consider it has jurisdiction or not is not relevant.

because the islands are currently colonised by a foreign usurper it is not possible to enforce them on the spot, but ignore it at your peril.
21 golfcronie (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:43 pm Report abuse
@13
When I was living in Greece in 1980, they had a law which stated that licence plates that ended in even numbers could drive say on monday,wednesday,friday and odd numbers could drive on the other days of the week. Of course us expats had two cars but eas inconvenient for the Greeks. Perhaps Argentina could adopt that strategy to save on fuel imports, juat a thought.
22 Swede (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:45 pm Report abuse
Such actions must lead to a “cold war” between the countries. This is of course much better than a “hot” one. But peace is even better. Argentina has the key. For a start they could stop harrasing the FI and its inhabitants and apologise for the 1982 inavsion
23 Be serious (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:51 pm Report abuse
International Law is on the UK's side and so are the Royal Navy, British Army and Royal Air Force. Rule Britannia.
24 yankeeboy (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 10:56 pm Report abuse
Troneas, Arg gov't would never have the nerve to arrest a foreign national over a this law. They would face international pressure for immediate release.
And lose face again
Do you see that every time, and I mean every time Arg tries to act like thugs/bullys outside of their own territry they are slapped down?
As an Argentinian are you not embarrassed?
25 St.John (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:13 pm Report abuse
Swede, you are trying to argue rationally with people who drag the average IQ down to 100.
26 Troneas (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:17 pm Report abuse
@22. sorry but you are living in some political thriller novel by tom clancy. we are talking about serious countries here.

@24. face international pressure over domestic pressure if it makes local news that a brit who transgressed the hydrocarbon law is given the green light to leave the country?

tough call. the international pressure would have to come very quickly indeed.

to this government, it would be an absolute win to have the opportunity to enforce the law. people would cheer it as the day the islands were conquered. the malvinas issue will be back on the international stage...
27 Lord Ton (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:27 pm Report abuse
20 - actually all the UK has to do is create legislation that makes it an imprisonable offence for any Argentine to enfore any Argentine law that concerns the Falklands.

But we won't do it. Why??

Because we have some stature in the world, and have no desire to lower ourselves to the standards of a banana Republic.

Argentina's law is a joke - but then, so is Argentina.
28 Musky (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:29 pm Report abuse
@14 Jose malverino
Britain has behaved diplomatically. It is making a formal complaint because of the belligerent juvenile behavior of your government. Is there some rule about responding that our government must not say anything?
29 Troneas (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:41 pm Report abuse
@20. how would that work?

you would send a warrant for the arrest of a federal judge accused of enforcing his country's laws?

i hope to see the day that will happen... for the lolz.
30 Pete Bog (#) Dec 16th, 2013 - 11:46 pm Report abuse
@14

“If Argentina law “does not apply” in the Malvinas Argentinas Islands, why do a “formal protest” to Argentina”

Answer=to emphasise how impotent and ineffective that law is.

Argentina always bleats for dialogue, now you have dialogue.

I doubt anyone will get arrested, especially if they are from the USA, France or Italy-more hot air from Argentina, and Britain are correct to outline the futility of this law.
31 Christina is a Crunt (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 12:14 am Report abuse
@7 conqueror “we could have turned argieland into a wasteland!”

It is anyway.so that would have achieved much. Although it would have created quite a few holes for the Argentine thieves to hide. Not all 20 million of them though (half are normal)!
I know an Argentine who said that we should have bombed the whole country and taken it over. Then they could have had a fresh start.
32 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 12:16 am Report abuse
... but as Britain only bombs women and children, it was a no-go...
33 St.John (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 12:38 am Report abuse
Stevie as usual dragging the average IQ down to 100.
34 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 12:39 am Report abuse
Yes Stevie. Argentina only throws nuns out of aircraft at 10,000 feet
35 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 12:46 am Report abuse
You sure redpoll, I haven't heard of 1 single case in all these years of Kirchnerism...

Did I touch a Brit nerve of yours, old man?
36 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 01:29 am Report abuse
We never heard any of that during your Galtieri govt either,Stevie.
37 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 01:34 am Report abuse
Hahaha redpoll

“Feeble” springs to mind...

Your country is bombing women and children to this day, old man.
I was talking as of today, not wishing to discuss your old memories of the country that you left out of love...
38 Anbar (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 01:51 am Report abuse
lool

Redpoll 1 Stevie -1

- - -

“”“argentina is not fabricating crimes - the law is there; it has been passed and published. whether you consider it has jurisdiction or not is not relevant. ”“”“

I think you find that it is absolutely relevant.

Just wait until Argentina tries to enforces ”Its law” by extraditing somebody from the UK (or elsewhere) to Argentina in breach of “its law” - then we'll all sit down with beer & popcorn for few more months of entertainment courtesy of the Kirchner Kretins.

Two Hopes of pulling it off, and one of them is Bob.
39 José Malvinero (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 02:06 am Report abuse
malvinasislasargentinas.blogspot.com.ar/2013/12/el-gobierno-britanico-protesta-por.html
40 Orbit (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 02:36 am Report abuse
lofl... Argentine laws aren't even enforeceable in Argentina. The judicial system is so weak and corrupt that policemen walk past illegal money exchanging 3rd world “caves” on a daily basis, but only go in when asked to do so before elections. “Laws” are a complete irrelevance to Argentina... anything goes... Timerman pretends that he can do what other countries do i.e. get a democratic body to pass a law and then something will actually happen off the back of it to implement it. Hilarious. They couldn't implement a coffee break.

Seriously malvinistas, you really are a funny bunch. You point at another persons land and say mine, mine, mine, but in the meantime your own country is begging for someone to take ownership of it and get it out of the infernal mess that it is in. Guess that is too hard a task and none of you have the backbone to try. Feeble, the lot of you.
41 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 04:21 am Report abuse
UK protest to Argentina over oil bill? :-)))))))))))))))
Feeling the pressure? Poor babies..
42 Britninja (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:14 am Report abuse
@41 I've felt more pressure from releasing a fart, which is pretty much what your contributions always amount to.
43 reality check (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:25 am Report abuse
Marcos, why don't you contribute to the UK carbon footprint?

Go home, ingrate!

whatsamatter? scared of your motherland, poor baby!!!!!
44 Redrow (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:27 am Report abuse
Sadly for the malvinistas, this story is not mentioned on today's news websites, it briefly flickered on a couple of sites yesterday a'noon but is gone now. What this means is that the FCO perfectly calibrated their response to be just enough to represent a legal block to Argentina but without giving Argentina any publicity. The protest was also sufficiently delayed to achieve this as well. This is the benefit of having professional diplomats.
45 Gordo1 (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 07:17 am Report abuse
Troneas - what planet do you live on? Everybody that matters is laughing at Argentina after the passage of this law. Just like the Argentine senator who declines an invitation to an important international conference on the sole excuse that it is taking place in the United Kingdom - “otra payasada”!

In Britain at this time of the year - Christmas - we, the British, are entertained by seasonal theatrical performances known as “pantomimes”. It is clear that this year Argentina is determined to join in! We are having a good laugh - many thanks!
46 Escoses Doido (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:04 am Report abuse
A small step closer to getting argentina in to the ICJ.

Which, as we all know, will 'end' them, and their futile braying.....
47 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:15 am Report abuse
Gordo
Everybody that matters, that would be you, conq, yanqui... And whom else?

Hahahaha

You lot are hilarious!!
48 golfcronie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 09:13 am Report abuse
@40
You hit the nail on the head with your post. I lived in Argentina for 2 years and it was obvious to me that the population did in fact ignore the law ( don't think it applied to them personally ) Always carry paper money in your driving licence.
49 Usurping Pirate (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 09:28 am Report abuse
Has the amendment to the hydrocarbon law made the crime rate in Argentina go down ? No.
Has inflation gone down as a result ? No .
Corruption levels down ? No
Poverty levels gone down ? No .
Standard of health care and education gone up ? No .
So this is a another meaningless bone thrown at deluded nationalist idiots with their heads up their a**e ? Yes .
50 nigelpwsmith (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 09:46 am Report abuse
It seems that both Spain and Argentina have not thought through to the possible outcomes of their politically motivated actions.

In the case of Spain, the action to hinder Gibraltar's border traffic is giving encouragement to the separatists in Catalonia. Even the Galicians are now considering pulling out of Spain if the Catalans vote Si Si.

Financially, Spain would be in dire trouble if Catalonia left, as they contribute the majority of the tax revenues used to bolster the other regions. Any attempt to send the tanks in would be discouraged by the EU. The Catalans have suffered enough under Spanish fascism & they would fight. The EU does not need a civil war in one of their states, especially in the region of a state which generates the revenue/taxes.

Rajoy & Margallo used the Gibraltar dispute for ulterior purposes, but the likely outcome is that they will cause their country to split apart.

Likewise, this new law will have consequences which the Argentine government should have foreseen, but are ignoring. Firstly, it's unenforceable outside Argentina, which makes Argentina a subject of ridicule. Secondly, it will encourage all oil executives or equipment supply companies to reconsider any trip to Argentina, any business in Argentina, or even the supply of products to Argentina.

It's been suggested above that any oil exec landing in Argentina would be immediately carted off to prison. So obviously, any smart exec would refrain from going to Argentina, making it difficult for Argentina to obtain the products/investment they need to develop their own oilfields.

As for seizing any property of any oil multinational purchasing Falklands oil, that would also have international legal repercussions. The countries involved would seek to isolate Argentina from international trade. There is already talk of removing Argentina from the G20, but removing their IMF privileges or embargoing trade would be catastrophic for Buenos Aires. Just look at the trouble Iran is in.
51 Anbar (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:34 am Report abuse
Nigel 1 Argentina 0
52 DanyBerger (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:43 am Report abuse
Of course Argentinean law applies and the proof of that is Britain formal complain...

Any Johnny participating in Oil exploration by buying shares, hiring, personnel, equipment, etc in Malvinas/Falkland territory will be accountable under Argentine law.

So the idiot can face 15 year in jail and Argentina can issue international arrest warrant throughout Interpol.

Noway to escape of it at least the idiot will remain confined to UK jurisdiction. Just a food out side UK jurisdiction she/he will be detained by Interpol and send to an Argentine court.

Argentines law Arm very long, Argentina has agreements with almost any country of this world 188 countries to be precise.

So from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe the Johnny can be prosecuted.

Here the long list of countries where idiots cannot put a foot on it...
www.interpol.gov.ar/ocns.asp
53 lsolde (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:51 am Report abuse
Just go away, Dany.
You get more ridiculous every day.
Just try it on, is all l need to say.
54 Monkeymagic (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:16 am Report abuse
@racist turd Stevie

“everyone that matters”

Quite simple really. Argentina tried to pass a snide and ambiguous resolution past the the UNGA in 2008. It suggested that the right to self-determination be limited only to those territories where “no sovereignty dispute” existed.

“everybody that matters” kicked that ridiculous snide bullshit out, and concluded that self-determination is a universal right.

Sorry racist Stevie...you've made yourself look a turd...again.

Carry on being proud that your pathetic and weak country had no part in Iraq and Afghanistan. We will continue to be proud that our country has bought a level of rights to the very women that you accuse us of bombing that they couldn't of dreamed of under the Taliban, and democracy for the children that you seem obsessed with.

Poor racist Stevie...what a turd he is.
55 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:28 am Report abuse
Me disliking you doesn't mean I'm a racist. I understand your belly button complex makes you think of yourself as a race, but that has nothing to do with me or my views.

The fact that you are proud of your country killing women and children in order to blatantly steal natural resources from a “third world” country, is beyond me.
But not at all surprising.
56 Clyde15 (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:53 am Report abuse
Your country is bombing women and children to this day,

By this you are implying that the UK has a policy of indiscriminate bombing of women and children. For what purpose would this be ?
OK Stevie, chapters and verse. So you have been there to witness it personally ?
57 nigelpwsmith (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 01:15 pm Report abuse
DannyBerger has made the classic mistake of believing that any law passed in his own country is automatically applicable everywhere else in the world.

It is not.

For any offence to be extraditable, it would have to be an offence in the country that the person was located for them to even be arrested, let alone extradited.

The country requesting extradition would then have to provide Prima Facie proof of a crime. However, Prima Facie evidence would be insufficient in the face of proof showing that the goods in question could be homogeneous, ie mixed with product from a variety of sources.

Interpol would refuse to accept any arrest warrant where the law concerned is confined to one country. It would be a waste of their time even handling such a request, as it would be defeated in any other country.

DannyBerger (and Argentina) obviously don't understand the basic tenants of International Law, because if they did, they would know how foolish it would be to make claims that are completely laughable.

The United Kingdom refuted the Argentine law as they are required to do. Nothing more, nothing less. Argentina has no chance of applying that law outside of Argentina. Furthermore, any attempt to prosecute within Argentina, either in absentia or after an arrest, would have serious international diplomatic consequences.

I really cannot see Argentina arresting any American Oil Executive, because the White House would give an ultimatum to the Casa Rosada, to free him forthwith or face the consequences.

In the meanwhile, as a result of this domestic Argentine law, any executive will reconsider travel to Argentina which means that Argentina will find it harder to purchase the equipment they need for their own oil fields.

To use a football analogy....

ARGENTINA SCORED AN OWN GOAL!
58 Redrow (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 01:37 pm Report abuse
@52 Dany
In 1986 Argentina ratified the ICCPR.
Article 1 of the ICCPR recognizes “the right of all peoples to self-determination, including the right to ”freely determine their political status”, pursue their economic, social and cultural goals, and manage and dispose of their own resources. It further recognises a negative right of a people not to be deprived of its means of subsistence, and imposes an obligation on those parties still responsible for non-self governing and trust territories (colonies) to encourage and respect their self-determination.”
The first sentence means that the Falkland Islanders can do what they want. The second part means that neither the UK nor Argentina can stop them trying to earn a living and the final part means the UK must accept however the islanders choose to self-determine - which we do.

Therefore, good luck trying to extradite people from other countries that also ratifed the ICCPR but perhaps understand it better than you do. It's not like this was sneakily tucked away in the small print - it's the very first article!!
59 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
Again massive blackouts in BA due to the heat wave. You'd think stupid Rgs would be more worried about the health and safety of their own people rather than fantasies bouncing around in their empty noggins.
Maybe they don't know the difference tho
60 ChrisR (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 03:56 pm Report abuse
@ 55 Stevie
“The fact that you are proud of your country killing women and children in order to blatantly steal natural resources from a “third world” country is beyond me.”

Well, I am sure it would be if it were true.

Please tell us all which UK force is DELIBERATELY killing women and children?

You remind me of the guy playing a miniature violin, supposedly because of sad times, BUT, the more he plays, the smaller the violin gets until all he is doing is rubbing his index finger and thumb together.

Because you see we have heard it all before, and it was a lie then just as it is now.

For all you argies and Stevie, enjoy:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K05iuZatB-o
61 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 04:36 pm Report abuse
@59 yes we in Uruguay had to export massive quantities of electric power to Argentina yesterday.
Question is, will we ever get paid for it?
62 ChrisR (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
@ 61 redp0ll
“Question is, will we ever get paid for it?”

Only by Pepe being allowed to arse lick TMBOA for another hour: she knows he likes it as does she.
63 Gordo1 (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:18 pm Report abuse
@47 Stevie
Are you not aware that almost all the countries of Latin America are only paying lip service to Argentina? Argentina is known and hated throughout the sub continent for its arrogance.
64 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:20 pm Report abuse
Not true Gordo. Porteños have a reputation for being arrogant, not Argentines.

Try something else ;)
65 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:42 pm Report abuse
Stupid Rgs are wondering why the electric companies are not investing in the grid. Maybe instead of increasing the taxes on the bills to give away free eletric they should let the companies risie the rates so they can invest.
They're not trying to drve them out of business are they?
Nah
Not like all the other companies they driven out to nationalize
nah
66 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
Porteños arrogant? Yes but the contagion seems to have been propagated to Entre Rios, Chubut, and seemingly to Mendoza,judging from snottys posts
67 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
And seemingly it disregards borders and goes for Brit expats in Uruguay as well...
68 ChrisR (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
@ 66 redp0ll

Stevie couldn't be accusing YOU or arrogance, surely?

So I wonder who he is thinking of?

Ha, ha, ha.
69 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
Stevie says he's not a porteño,so is not an Arrogante. More likely to be an Atorrante
70 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
It's not “an” arrogante, redpoll. Someday you'll get the language, don't you worry...
71 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:54 pm Report abuse
Attorante. One who lives in a sewer pipe
72 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
With one t redpoll, with one t...
73 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
Correct Stevie. The maker of those pipes was A Torrant and Co
74 Think (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 07:11 pm Report abuse
Mr. Redpoll

At (en.mercopress.com/2013/12/16/falklands-malvinas-controversy-argentine-senator-rejects-oxford-invitation-and-honors#comment293442) you say…:
”You want to play by Queensberry rules or not Think? If not I have quite a lot of dirty washing to air about you.”
At (en.mercopress.com/2013/12/16/falklands-malvinas-controversy-argentine-senator-rejects-oxford-invitation-and-honors#comment293458) you say…:
….. Something about an ”uncle Olaf Tuff , member of the SS Wiking division who poured petrol on some Ukranians,shut them in their chuch and burnt them alive.”
At (en.mercopress.com/2013/12/16/falklands-malvinas-controversy-argentine-senator-rejects-oxford-invitation-and-honors#comment293460) you say…:
”OK Think it's gloves off. Thought I could debate with you on civilised terms,but evidently not.”

Wooow… Dirty Laundry, Nazi Uncle and Gloves Off !
What has my ”Big Crime” been?
That I called you ”Bill”?
”Bill” is a pretty name!
And it’s your name.
I like it; ”Bill”…

Or that I called you an Englishman?
But… You are an Englishman!
Nothing wrong about that.
Well.. almost nothing ;-)
'
PS...:
That “A Torrant and Co” story is just a street legend.....
Inform yourself better, Bill.....
75 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
Inform yourself better mayor think.Street legend, so why has it entered the Argentine lexicon?
Bichicome vos.
76 Think (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 07:55 pm Report abuse
(75) redp0ll

I will assume that, after so many years in Tacuarembó, you are able to read Spanish....:
www.clubdetango.com.ar/articulos/atorrante_ref.htm

Happy now?
77 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:00 pm Report abuse
Yes and Gardel is ours too
78 Think (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
(77) redp0ll

Mr. Gardes was born in France...
His soul was from Tacuarembó...
His heart from Buenos Aires...

You Englishmen have nothing to do with el zorzal criollo...
79 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
Yes Think, Gardel sang “Mi Montevideo querido” after all...
80 Think (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:21 pm Report abuse
(79) Stevie
Right, botija.......... And don't forget his “Cancion de Montevideo”!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY_7hnSapkI
81 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:35 pm Report abuse
Hahaha

At least we can agree on our common Cumparsita...
82 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
Señor Gardes may have been born in Bordeaux,France. Carlos Gardel es tacuaremboense.
He is not Argentino. Another of your fantasies like the Islas de Fantasia you call the Malvinas, Major Think?
Typical RG thinking. If it's not yours steal it!
83 Think (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
To the 100% Yorugua anclao en København....
To the 51/49% Incalaperres/Yorugua anclao en Tacuarembó....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n3_5ELv0-Y

Enjoy!
84 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 09:43 pm Report abuse
Think

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DANK1F3-9Qs

Enjoy :)
85 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 09:48 pm Report abuse
The Ministry of “economy and planning” has no power.
Bahahahaha
Great planning!!
86 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:29 pm Report abuse
@84 Soberbia argentina como siempre
No wonder we call you arrogant
87 Clyde15 (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:34 pm Report abuse
#55
See my post at #56
I am still awaiting your reply. As you continually say we are bombing women and children and stealing resources, you obviously MUST have the undeniable proof of this. Please enlighten us with verifiable figures.. Or are you, as I suspect, just casting the runes and making up anything that suits your twisted “ideals”
88 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 10:36 pm Report abuse
Did you listen to it?
Did you understand it?
Do you even understand Spanish?
What in that clip do you find arrogant?

And by the way, Falta y Resto is a very much known Uruguayan murga... but you knew this, didn't you?

;)
89 Joe Bloggs (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:16 pm Report abuse
I think some of you on here are from and / or live in Uruguay. I'd just like to say a big thank you to Uruguay for the support it is giving us down here in the Falklands and a special big thanks for what you did in particular for us today. And thanks in advance for what you're going to do for us again later in the week. Your support is very real and very tangible and we are pleased that despite the crap your bully of a neighbour is subjecting you to you still remember the strong links you have with the Falklands.
90 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:23 pm Report abuse
No vworries Joe, just send those British war-mongerers home, will you?

Good day to you and those yours.
91 Joe Bloggs (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:27 pm Report abuse
90 Stevie

Those “war-mongers” aren't going anywhere mate so get over it. Oh and Stevie, thanks for the support your Government gave us in the pursuit of our development this week. Knowing that people like you are part of the country that helps us so much makes me feel good. It makes me realise you don't actually mean all the stuff you say in public. It's what goes on behind the scenes that really counts.
92 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Joe
I wish only well for the islanders, you are South Americans, just like us. Sadly, we have this European force doing what they always have done down here, getting cheap resources and trying to destabilize the continent.
Someday, they will be gone, and we can all do what we do best, and do it together.
And no, I don't mean half of the stuff that comes out as sarcasm, it's merely a response to the drivel that is being said about our continent and the despise of its people. Which I'm quite sure is as overdimensioned as my own responses...
93 redp0ll (#) Dec 17th, 2013 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Joe,
Some of here support you as if you surrender to Argentina threats, we will be next and then Chile
94 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 03:47 am Report abuse
93
“we will be next”
Who is “we” Bill?
95 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 04:21 am Report abuse
Re 92

Joe,

It's funny how with Stevie especially, and the other Argentine Trolls, there always has to be an Outsider, an identifiable Enemy, an Oppressor, to point the finger at and blame.
96 reality check (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 05:15 am Report abuse
You ok Marcos, they will never get as far as the UK, your quite safe living in your nice English Suburb.
97 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 05:47 am Report abuse
96 reality check
I love to take advantage of the UK's generous welfare system Mr. RC.
Cheers, mate.
98 reality check (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 06:16 am Report abuse
Breed a few more expats, you'll qualify for a bigger house!
99 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 06:27 am Report abuse
No need for that mate :-)))

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155726/Somali-family-benefits-handed-keys--2million-luxury-council-home-Londons-affluent-streets.html

Wait until the Bulgarians and Romanians start arriving, you will move to my beloved Argentina in no time :-) Good night.
100 DanyBerger (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 09:25 am Report abuse
@nigelpwsmith

You are absolutely wrong Interpol has not any attribution to desire if the law applies or not to any particular country they are just obligate to complete the arrest warrant. Then the country where the person is detained could desire if they will extradite the person or not to Argentina and not Interpol.

But in the case this country refuses to extradite the person he cannot put a foot outside the host country without been detained in other jurisdiction.

Ask Julian Assange about it he knows very well how that works.

Can you see now why UK is so concern about it?

@Redrow

Yeah, yeah, yeah but if you are involved in oil exploration and Argentina accuses you for example you will confined to don’t put a foot outside UK jurisdiction because you will end facing 15 years in a nasty Argentine jail.

And doesn’t matter if you are British, American, French, Spanish, German or Argentine...
101 Clyde15 (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 10:55 am Report abuse
#100
At last, I can agree with part of your comments....“a nasty Argentine”
102 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 01:56 pm Report abuse
100. Yeah that is the way Interpol works for civilized countries but EVERYONE knows that the Rg courts are corrupted and easily bought. So No that is not the way it works for your arrest warrants.
Can you imagine the utter chaos if every two bit dictator could issue int'l arrest warrants for anyone they wanted.
Sheesh
You obviously don't live in the real world.
103 GFace (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 03:58 pm Report abuse
@102, Interpol has been shamed over being played like a cheap ukalele over red flags before, esp in the Kashgari case. If they want to have *any* credibility in the civilized world a replay of that kind cuckolding by 21rst century goose-stepping fascists screaming for their Sudetenland and East Prussia would create amusing squirming indeed.
104 DanyBerger (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 06:54 pm Report abuse
@yankeeboy

A corrupted person always think that everyone is like him.

There is not a more corrupted legal or Illegal I should say system than US legal system.

The Tragic Reality of the World's
Biggest Corrupt Legal System

By Journalist Les Sachs - (Dr-Les-Sachs@laposte.net)

www.jail4judges.org/J.A.I.L._News_Journals/2008/2008-05-23.html

The following is an excerpt by an anti-corruption journalist and former US citizen who received political asylum in Europe. From his refuge in Europe, this author wrote a free online resource book for victims, the 'FAQ on US Judicial and Legal Corruption.' Dr Les Sachs names U.S. judges as 'criminals and terrorists' involved in threats of political murder. Below is are excerpts from just one of his articles.





Excerpts:



The tragic reality of the world's biggest corrupt legal system



America's rigged courts, bribed judges, fake and phony trials, extortion by lawyers, and over 2.2 million prisoners in the USA gulag.



Right now, about 1 out of every 45 working age males in the US are BEHIND BARS inside the US empire - Many of those millions of US prisoners are innocent.



The corrupt USA legal system, is a danger to every traveler, visitor, and guest worker from overseas, and to every individual who takes the risky step of entering upon American territory.



The reality is that the United States of America has the most dishonest, dangerous and crooked legal system of any developed nation. Legal corruption is covering America like a blanket.



The corruption of the USA legal system is well-known, but also well-hidden, by the news services of America's corporate-owned media.

America has the largest prison gulag in the entire world - The starting point for understanding anything about the USA, is to digest the fact that just this one country, the United States of America, has twenty-five percent of ALL of the prisoners in the entire world.



More than 2.2 million prisoners - more than 1 out of e
105 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 07:21 pm Report abuse
...
106 DanyBerger (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 10:58 pm Report abuse
@Stevie

Thank you second part...

of every 150 people in America - are behind bars in the American gulag. American “justice” is especially focused on jailing people who US government thinks might organize into opposition to the government.

No one imprisons people as casually as America, tossing innocent people into prison. The USA jailing of more than 2 million people is also a revival of slavery and slave labour. The expanding system of USA prison slave labour is not only a major source of business profit, but also a wedge to drive down the wages of workers outside the prison walls.

This culture of mass prisons and slave labour is sold to US citizens by creating a psychology of fear. This climate of fear is nourished in the USA by both the media and the government, who work together with the judges and lawyers to maintain the whole crooked game.



Before you set foot in America, you should have a clear picture of the terror of America's legal system - the judges and lawyers and money and bribery, that have made this system of fear so pervasive.



The situation is so bad, that a social explosion is beginning inside America. You can read some news stories - about people murdering judges, or attacking the families of judges, or people setting fire to courthouses in the USA - and see the pattern that is emerging, even though the news media are afraid to connect the dots and suggest what might be behind all these events.

American prisons are often horrible, with lots of torment of prisoners, like you would expect in some petty dictatorship. Rape and beatings are common, and there is little help for abused inmates. In addition to the many official USA executions, numerous people are also illegally killed in jail cells, “mysteriously” found hanged or stabbed to death.



In the regular functioning of the USA courts, America's domestic lawyers and judges, threaten people with illegal jailing, and rape, torture and murder in jail.



Theoretically, torture and abu
107 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
continue, by all means
108 Think (#) Dec 18th, 2013 - 11:05 pm Report abuse
(106) DanyBerger

That article may be a bit exaggerated but.......

...... After having driven many miles of America's backroads I can say that one get's the impression that they have more prisions than factories.....
109 Forgetit87 (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 01:45 am Report abuse
@Monkeymagic

- “...the children that you seem obsessed with.”

The only ones obsessed about Afghan children are your soldiers, I'm afraid.

rt.com/news/british-soldier-afghan-abuse-209/
110 DanyBerger (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 03:21 am Report abuse
@Stevie

Thank you

@Think

Do you think so Mr. Think? In USA to put people in jail is a very lucrative business...
www.aclu.org/prison-profiteers
www.thenation.com/prison-profiteers

3er part...

Theoretically, torture and abuse is totally outlawed by America's Constitution, but some of the nice words in America's Constitution hold little power anymore, despite how often people quote them.

America's Bill of Rights and Constitution are nearly dead, not just because the judges will no longer enforce them, but even more because America's lawyers will not even fight for them. The two American “political parties” are not fighting for them, either, and America's news media are also very passive. This means that America's legal system has become largely a tool of government terror, and of bribery for the rich and the powerful.

The words of the law don't protect you in the USA, because American judges and lawyers have no scruples about bending them to mean the opposite of what they say.

America's lawyers are controlled by the judges, and don't really work for you - that's why they sell you out to the government, or to the big companies that pay bribes.

Even if you are paying an American lawyer huge amounts of money, he or she doesn't really work for you, and may sell you down the river to the jailhouse.

American lawyers are directly under the thumb of the judges and the government. Lawyers, just like any other victim, can be instantly jailed by an American judge on flimsy pretexts, and American lawyers can be quickly stripped of their right to practice law. Lawyers who try to fight the system can find themselves dis-barred, criminally charged and jailed.

American lawyers are afraid to do things in court, that the judges don't want them to do. America's nearly 1 million lawyers, are almost totally under the control of a few thousand judges, with their entrenched culture of bribery and miscarriage of justice.

That means that any time you hire an Amer
111 Forgetit87 (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 03:30 am Report abuse
...
112 DanyBerger (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 05:35 am Report abuse
@Forgetit87

Thank you... if you insist..

Part 4
That means that any time you hire an American lawyer, he already is in a conflict of interest. He has to make the judge happy first. And if the judge wants to make the government happy, or make some corporation happy who is paying a big bribe, then guess what? You are destroyed. It doesn't matter what you paid the lawyer. He works for the judge, first and foremost.

People accused of serious crimes have the “right” to a lawyer, but this may only provide a crooked lawyer who is stage-managing the victim to help the government and prosecutors. If the lawyer does not betray the victim to help the government, he can be put out of work.

This legal fraud is the core of the danger to those who visit America. A lawyer who is “representing” you in the USA, whether the government is paying him, or even if you are paying him yourself, may just be a stooge who is helping the prosecutors to put you in jail, even though you are innocent.

The judges of America gave every accused criminal the “right” to a lawyer, because it helps stage-manage the victim, with a lawyer who has to do things the judge's way. In America, such government-appointed lawyers are the means by which hundreds of thousands of poor people are railroaded into prison.

Most American court cases never go to trial, never see a jury; it is the job of the victim's lawyer to “sell the deal” that the judge has decided will happen, or else. This is how people accept a “plea bargain” so they accept going to jail for 3 years even though they are innocent, instead of going to trial before a jury: The victim is warned: you accept a “bargain” of a few years in jail, or you go to jail the rest of your life.

Often, both “sides” of lawyers are actually working together for the government, or for the big corporation or rich person who is bribing the judge.

In the American legal system, you essentially have no recourse against wrongdoing by your own lawyer. A lawyer can s
113 Forgetit87 (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 06:55 am Report abuse
..
114 Leiard (#) Dec 19th, 2013 - 08:18 am Report abuse
112 DanyBerger

Well done, you have managed to find an article by the not so well known American author/journalist living in Belgium. (The CIA out to get me!)

So because one man, with a persecution complex, writes an article about the American legal system it must be the absolute truth.
115 DanyBerger (#) Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:48 am Report abuse
@Leiard

Of course it is true and it is just not the only article about this that you can find. In fact if you would pay attention to my post to Mr. Think I provided 2 other links talking about the same.

Anyway you don’t have to be so smart to realise that if you privatise prisons the companies running them will look for to maximise profits by any means.

Longer the prisoners stay in jail better for the business, if judges provide me more clients why not to pay them a commission for the service too?

All profits for a lucrative business pay by taxpayers.

It is like to have an expensive hotel where none cares about customer complains and the average reservation is for 10 years.

Part 5

In the American legal system, you essentially have no recourse against wrongdoing by your own lawyer. A lawyer can sell you out, betray you, steal your money, engage in malpractice, help out the other side, hide the evidence that proved you were right, or commit felony crimes against you, and there is almost nothing you can do about it.



Part of the reason America has so much crime, even with more than 2.2 million people in prison, is because the people who actually committed the crimes were never arrested.



Any innocent person can get railroaded to death in America.



Multi-millionaires and big corporations, vs. everybody else



The only people who really can expect some fairness in American courts are multi-millionaires and big corporations who pay political contributions and bribery money, and who protect the interests of other rich people. Nobody else really matters to American judges and lawyers.



There is a huge amount of bribery in America. Rich people pay huge amounts of money to law firms with connections, the lawyers walk around with a certain amount of cash in their jacket, and they pass it to the judges in their quiet moments together. Mostly all cash of course.



As an average person, there's no real way to out-bribe a big corporation, regardless of wha
116 ChrisR (#) Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
DanyBerger

PLEASE, PLEASE FUCK OFF AND LET THE DANYBERGER WITH A BRAIN COME BACK!

You are a complete idiot, the type that La Camping -it-up have seemingly hundreds of, you are a first rate idiot, nothing second class about you.

At least the other DanBerger had knowledge of many things and could hold a fairly lucid “argument” about them. Now piss off and let him come back!
117 Pete Bog (#) Dec 21st, 2013 - 11:33 pm Report abuse
@100

OK, with the part of the Argentine Navy that can still float-try and intercept the oil tankers in international waters (piracy) and see what happens.

You'll be lucky if your piracy gets the tanker to port in Argentina before an Astute class submarine intervenes.

Meanwhile back on Planet Earth, no one realistically is going to get arrested for a law that does not apply in the Falkland Islands.
118 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 22nd, 2013 - 12:20 am Report abuse
116 ChrisR

Remember, you're talking to Dany Berger, “Economics Expert” who can't understand currency devaluation and related inflation.

Now, it's “Dany Berger, US Judiciary Expert”

Gawd, I'm killing myself, laffing !!!!
119 DanyBerger (#) Dec 23rd, 2013 - 07:51 am Report abuse
@Boys

You can laugh all you wants but Argentine arrest warrants through Iterpol are valid as US arrest warrant.

I wouldn’t be involved in oil exploration if I would be you 15 years in jail in and argie prison I will deserve it for may worse enemy...

Well after all in Argentina you can change your sex without much explanation. So you can go on an people can you call Catherine from F@cklands Islands...
120 Pete Bog (#) Dec 23rd, 2013 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
@119

“You can laugh all you wants but Argentine arrest warrants through Iterpol are valid as US arrest warrant.”

These would be laughed out of court as Argentina would have to go to the ICJ first to qualify their law-and they would loose there too.

People getting jail for being involved in legal activities is a farcical as the Malvinas Fairy tale, never never, fantasy land.

What idiot would dream up a name that sounds suspiciously like wine that has gone off? Why not call your fairy-land, non existent country the Vinegar Islands?

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