Monday, May 12th 2014 - 06:25 UTC

Argentina media makes it a day with the Home Office reference to Malvinas

The Argentine media has given extensive coverage to the Foreign Office's glitch of calling the Falklands by its Spanish name Malvinas in several documents, and the furious reaction in Parliament, as was reported by the Sunday Express.

Labor MP Thomas Docherty, ”where did they buy the computer software? Buenos Aires?

MP Rossindell: Doing something like this plays straight into the hands of Argentina and is an insult to the Falkland Islands.

Dick Sawle said: “I expected better than this. It is absolutely outrageous particularly after we voted so clearly on the issue.”

 According to the article after sheepish Home Office officials blamed the gaffe on a glitch with its computer software, one disbelieving MP asked: “Where did they buy it from? Buenos Aires?”

Labour MP Thomas Docherty also challenged Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire to ban all government departments from using the name which could be seen as encouraging Argentina’s claim to the Islands.

The humiliating error has been repeated by the Home Office on “numerous occasions” since Islanders overwhelmingly voted to remain British in a referendum last year.

Sukey Cameron, the Falkland Islands government’s representative in London was “privately seething” that repeated attempts to stop the practice had been ignored.

Earlier this year the Department of Business, Innovations and Skills used “Malvinas” in statistics of students from British Overseas Territories studying in Britain and last year Britain’s embassy in Colombia was taken to task for repeatedly including the Argentine name in a series of Twitter posts.

The latest Home Office document, addressed April 14 and seen by the Sunday Express, shows bungling bureaucrats are using the address “Falkland Islands (Malvinas)”.

Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire last week told Parliament his department had been “in contact” with the Home Office on the issue, though he claimed incidents were “isolated”.

Yet he refused to issue a cross- government ban on the term, despite Islanders’ claims that they had been receiving documents sent to the “Malvinas” for more than a year.

Mr Docherty said: “It is all very well saying these are isolated incidents but clearly they keep mounting up. Now the Home Office is blaming its error on software.

“If that is true, then it begs the question where did they buy it from? Buenos Aires?

“It seems clear to me that what we are really looking at is political correctness by officials.

“The Foreign and Commonwealth Office knows the Falkland Islanders have been offended.

Andrew Rossindell chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the British Overseas Territories said: “It is shocking that some civil servants are so out of touch they do not understand a fundamental thing like the fact that the name Malvinas does not exist in British law.

“Doing something like this plays straight into the hands of Argentina and is an insult to the Falkland Islands.

Former senior Falkland Islands assemblyman Dick Sawle said: “I expected better than this. It is absolutely outrageous particularly after we voted so clearly on the issue.”

Last night a Home Office spokesman said: “We apologize to the people of the Falkland Islands for this mistake.

“The Home Office bought software that included this inappropriate default setting. We have taken measures to ensure this does not happen again.

“British soldiers died to defend the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and along with the rest of the country we honor their memory.”

63 comments Feed

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1 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2014 - 06:47 am Report abuse
A lot like the Official Guidebook of Argentina that (correctly) showed the Faland Islands, using their only legal name, surprisingly, “The Falkland Islands” and the Capital, “Stanley”
2 Britworker (#) May 12th, 2014 - 08:38 am Report abuse
It must have been Spanish software, however then need to sacked as an example of incompetence. UKIP would have sacked them!
3 lsolde (#) May 12th, 2014 - 09:15 am Report abuse
My Grandmother told me, NEVER TRUST:-
1) The Government
2) Banks &
3) Used Car Salesmen.
Well in this case #1 should stand for the Foreign(& C)Office.
l agree, Britworker, apologies are not enough.
The damage has been done.
Fire the lot of the incompetent fools.
4 Conqueror (#) May 12th, 2014 - 09:56 am Report abuse
The Foreign & Commonwealth Office tends to take the view that, since much of government expenditure is funded by taxes on imports, they actually work for the foreigners.

It also has the view that the more it “accommodates” foreigners, the more foreigners will give to Britain. This not supported by the evidence that shows foreigners laughing themselves sick and demanding more “concessions”. Let's take the small matter of Assange and the Ecuadorian embassy flat. What exactly was wrong with planting a bomb and catching him as he ran out?

But down to reality. If you travel through a British airport, you will find points of origin and destination shown as Mumbai (Bombay), Kolcata (Calcutta), Chennai (Madras). It's all about getting down to the appropriate level. I'm sure that, once they think about it, Falkland Islanders will understand that getting the right message across is more important than the name. Consider the hours argies would have to spend trying to understand what “Falkland Islands” means. And where they are.

Rise above it. Much as I hate to excuse the FCO, they do seem to recognise argie ignorance.
5 GeoffWard2 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 10:25 am Report abuse
Good one Conq. - an unexpected posting.

A bit like the current distaste in the UK about the use of the word 'nigger' being actually SAID, live, on air.
A lot of my friends 'of colour' use the word nigger in everyday street-talk when they banter with each other. But, if a non-coloured person uses the word - even playing a song from a hundred years ago that contains the word - that person is hounded out of the BBC for being unacceptibly 'non-PC'.

I think it is about time that the Heads of Departments in the Government Departments where the word 'Malvinas' emanates should be similarly immediately sacked, have their Official Government Honours stripped from their breasts and summarily flogged. 'That will stop the Wog-lovers'.

Of course, only joking.

Conqueror has the right attitude - rise above it.
These are words that only hurt if there is vicious intent, and that is rarely the case.
6 Islander1 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 10:27 am Report abuse
It is actually standard gobbledegook on lots of computer generated addresses as the hardware systems are based on the UN terminology and thus say Falklands(Malvinas).
Had an 18 month battle with my credit card company once - I won as I simply refused to pay the bill until they corrected it and they credited me back with all their interest charges!
But yes you would expect better from a British Govt department the moment they noticed it! Stupid Arses.
7 José Malvinero (#) May 12th, 2014 - 10:57 am Report abuse
Is that the truth always comes to light. It is impossible to hide it for a long time, even for the largest liars of the world.
MALVINAS ISLANDS ARGENTINES.
8 ElaineB (#) May 12th, 2014 - 11:12 am Report abuse
@5 You raise an interesting and topical point, Geoff. Of course the word nigger is offensive now because of the derogatory connotations. I wouldn't use it and don't like to hear it used in the present day, even by black people to each other. However, I question retrospective editing.

We all know the about the Dam Buster's film editing where the dog named 'nigger' (a very common name for a black dog back then) was dubbed as 'digger'. Some might think it doesn't matter but the dog's name is a matter of historical record as it was the code name of the success of the operation. There is also some question that the name was actually a derivative of the latin for black.

I also have some issue with the editing of classic books that are not considered P.C. I read recently that some of F. Scott Fitzgerald work is to be released in the original form, including all the unpalatable language. This is how it should be read. People are smart enough and should know how language and society has evolved.

On my last SoAm trip I dropped my Kindle, destroyed the screen and was unable to replace it in Chile. I decided to pick up a couple of books for down time reading and one was a collection of short stories by Truman Capote. Boy can he write a good short story but P.C. it is not. Nor should it be because it is a reflection of the time it was written.

So, I agree that the DJ playing a song from a decades ago should not be sacked but a certain TV presenter using the word in a program set in current times probably should. You know who I am talking about.
9 José Malvinero (#) May 12th, 2014 - 11:34 am Report abuse
I strange that a country like “so law-abiding” as United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, do not know that in 1964, at the Fourth Committee of the General Assembly of the United Nations, it was decided by 87 votes to none, with 13 abstentions, that in all UN documents, the name “Islas Malvinas” with the pirate name be included.
10 ElaineB (#) May 12th, 2014 - 11:50 am Report abuse
@7 & 9 Relax.

Nothing has changed and nothing will change. The Falkland Islands are not and never will be Argentine.
11 FI_Frost (#) May 12th, 2014 - 11:59 am Report abuse
9 José

Fair enough, but should not Port Stanley be also named Puerto Argentino as well? After all, this was the name you gave it when you invaded in 82 ( after ignoring all UN instructions and censure to leave). How about asking the UN to make the islands official language Spanish and instruct all car drives to now drive on the right?

Have you ever remotely considered the possibility that the people who live in the FI (for ~200 years) find this all rather ridiculous and threatening? How on earth can you ever come close to achieving your goal by treating people you need to win over with such alienating behavior. Clearly you see little prospect of this, your only comfort it seems is to annoy and insult.
12 ChrisR (#) May 12th, 2014 - 12:18 pm Report abuse
My family dog (mom and dad’s dog) was called “Darkie” back in 1945, just before I was born. Never a problem in all the years she lived.

I had a number of Jamaican employees who regularly used the nigger term and we always got on really well. So much in fact I was known as a “nigger” myself (I am white).

I was taking them to lunch one day to repay them for some real good work they had done (as well as being paid of course) and a black guy one of them knew came up to us and asked why they were with a “whitey”. The reply involved one of the older guys giving the interloper a real good smack around the ear and the rebuke “don’t talk like that, we’s all niggers here!”

Never a problem after that.
13 Islander1 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 12:21 pm Report abuse
Jose- missed the point as usual! It is politically correct for the UN and other 3rd party countries to refer to the Falklands/Malvinas. I would expect Argentina to just refer to us as the Mavinas(you know the word invented by the FRENCH) - and the UK to use just the word Falklands.
14 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2014 - 12:40 pm Report abuse
From the article, it sounds like the Foreign Office was apologising for a gaffe by the Home Office.
The FO being aware of the significance of the name, but the Home Office oblivious.
15 M_of_FI (#) May 12th, 2014 - 12:56 pm Report abuse
Oh no.... another nail in the coffin for the Falklands and its people. It is happening people! Argentina are close to colonising the Falklands! Oh wait, this really and truly changes nothing. Back to my life! Not to today Argentines. Not ever.
16 FI_Frost (#) May 12th, 2014 - 02:04 pm Report abuse
London and places are teaming with Spanish speaking economic migrants, so fair chance one such office temp has got the name wrong either innocently or maybe be even cheekily.
17 psql (#) May 12th, 2014 - 02:18 pm Report abuse
its people? M_of_FI?, what do you think will happen to your people?
Surely will be treated better than the people the British navy kickoff in 1822.
Argentinians will not do anything to those “people”, there are not 2000 British nationals living in Argentina, there are about 300'000 or more.
Look at it this way, this problem is 180 years old, it is not going to go away.
You know it, I know it, and everybody else in the world know it. Governments of thief's are not welcome anymore!
18 Islander1 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 03:50 pm Report abuse
1- and what people did the Royal Navy kick off in 1832 please? - Come on tell us - the TRUTH?
19 Clyde15 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 04:37 pm Report abuse
#17
Governments of thief's are not welcome anymore!

Does that mean you are going to get rid of Kirchner and her government ?
20 Gordo1 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
A storm in a teacup! I dismiss wholeheartedly all efforts that that failing country Argentina has made, makes and will make to obtain sovereignty to the Falklands/Malvinas archipelago.

However, we must live with the fact that the Spanish speaking world knows the islands as “Las Islas MALVINAS” - and for the Francophones they are les Mallouines.

My Latin American in laws, who abhor Argentina and its pretences to sovereignty of the British Oversea Territory, always call the islands Malvinas - no problem!
21 LEPRecon (#) May 12th, 2014 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
@17 psql

The people the RN 'kicked' off in 1832 were a bunch of murderers and rapists. They came from the United Provinces of the River Plate, and trespassed on British territory (since 1690 - when the British 1st claimed the Falkland Islands), and then committed crimes against...not the Falklanders BUT there fellow UP citizens.

Argentina didn't exist at this point.

There is no problem. People who have lived in a place for 180 years (actually more but lets no quibble over a few years) are the ONLY people who have a say in how their Islands are run. The UN Charter fully supports this, as does UNGA resolution 1514 and even the oft 'misquoted' UNGA resolution 2065.

Perhaps you should actually try reading these resolutions for yourself - they even have them in Spanish too - and you will see that your claims of sovereignty from so long ago are MEANINGLESS using International Law of today.

The are also MEANINGLESS using International Law in the 19th century, that law being that territory was only yours IF you could defend and hold onto it.

Well on the 3 Jan 1833, the mutinying troops from the United Provinces, couldn't hold the British territory they tried to steal, and were sent packing WITHOUT even ONE shot being fired.

Following the 3 Jan 1833 there were NO British troops of ANY kind on the Falklands, and neither the UP or later Argentina ever tried to return (until 1982 and we know how that ended).

So your government of thieves are not welcome in the Falklands. They'll stick to the Falkland Islands Government who are elected BY the PEOPLE, FOR the PEOPLE and to REPRESENT the PEOPLE, and are not thieves.
22 Mendocinovino (#) May 12th, 2014 - 05:07 pm Report abuse
“and last year Britain’s embassy in Colombia was taken to task for repeatedly including the Argentine name in a series of Twitter posts.”

Most likely the fault of employing locals to work in an embassy and consulates.
23 reality check (#) May 12th, 2014 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
A rose by any other name, is still a rose.
24 M_of_FI (#) May 12th, 2014 - 05:47 pm Report abuse
@17 - psql

Yes, it's people. Falkland Islanders. I think you are extremely short sighted to believe that Argentines would treat islanders well, or you think I am very gullible. Argentina has a proud and rich history of trying to force islanders to submit to their will. This involves invasion, systematically attempting to remove the right to self-determination from the islanders, continuous attempts to destroy the Falklands economy, publically ridiculing islanders (e.g. pirates, squatters, unsurpers, not a people), refusing to acknowledge islanders and their voice regarding their home and future and attempting to criminalise the development of the Falklands oil industry.

This does not sound like a country that will treat islanders well at all. In fact, it strongly suggests that Argentina really couldn’t care any less about the Falkland Islanders. It suggests that Argentina would not provide the islanders with any political or economic freedom, and would not listen to the voice of islanders. If you believe that this behaviour means that islanders would be better off under Argentine rule, then you really are in a different reality.

I know that I am a Falkland Islander and I know I am British. I know that the Falklands and its people as a British Overseas Territory we will always have the freedom to dictate our own political, economic, cultural and social future. Something we would not be afforded under Argentine control. You need to realise this.
25 Gordo1 (#) May 12th, 2014 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
psql - your views are not welcome as they are crassly stupid.
26 FI_Frost (#) May 12th, 2014 - 07:17 pm Report abuse
@22

And what does YPF mapping use? Exactly, its uses the proper naming ie Falklands not Never Neverland. Why? Because, that reflects reality not fantasy.
27 Mendocinovino (#) May 12th, 2014 - 09:15 pm Report abuse
@26
?
28 Troy Tempest (#) May 12th, 2014 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
27

?
29 lsolde (#) May 12th, 2014 - 09:34 pm Report abuse
@17 psql,
l don't trust you
l don't believe you
l don't trust your government
l don't believe your government
your government killed 30,000 of their own citizens
there are no guarantees that it would not happen again
your government lies, cheats & steals
We don't need you & finally,
This is NOT your land.
Got the message now?
30 slattzzz (#) May 12th, 2014 - 10:09 pm Report abuse
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz look away children
31 José Malvinero (#) May 13th, 2014 - 12:12 am Report abuse
Beautiful maps Malvinas Argentinas nearly a century before the despicable pirate action of the despicable country of England (Inca-the-bitch in gaucho language).
See, see what the map says: “Gran Malvina”, “Soledad”, “Estrecho de San Carlos”, “Puerto de la Soledad”, etc..
Beautiful Spanish and then Argentine Islands.
LAS ISLAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS.

www.lanacion.com.ar/1503221-cuatro-mapas-de-las-islas-malvinas-del-siglo-xviii-vuelven-a-la-argentina
32 Don Alberto (#) May 13th, 2014 - 01:26 am Report abuse
If you write to the Home Office, do send it to the correct address:

British Home Office
Londres
Vereinigtes Königreich

- one simply must forgive the Bertie Wooster types in the British Ministerio del Interior.
.
.
@ poor José Malvinero whose long time memory is totally blacked out after one week:

“Uproar in Argentina with YPF tourist guide naming the islands Falkland Islands
YPF describes the Malvinas as Falklands, Puerto Argentino as Stanley, and Isla Gran Malvina as West Falkland”
en.mercopress.com/2014/05/03/falklands-or-malvinas-uproar-in-argentina-with-ypf-tourist-guide
33 Marcos Alejandro (#) May 13th, 2014 - 04:25 am Report abuse
“Labour MP Thomas Docherty also challenged Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire to ban all government departments from using the name which could be seen as encouraging Argentina’s claim to the Islands”

This reminded me of this article:
“Official British history of the Falklands War is considered too pro-Argentina”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html

Not even the British official history is pro-Britain in this matter.
34 Gordo1 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 05:45 am Report abuse
@33 TWERP!
35 Heisenbergcontext (#) May 13th, 2014 - 05:50 am Report abuse
This is the kind of mistake that can happen a thousand times a day in a bureaucracy the size of the British Civil Service. The minister being embarrassed by an opposition politician means it won't happen again. Memo's will flow from the Minister's office to the permanent secretary all the way down to the hapless individual who is directly responsible.

In a week, or a month at best, it will be forgotten. No jobs need to be lost IMO.
36 Room101 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 07:38 am Report abuse
Clerical Error; nothing more.
37 lsolde (#) May 13th, 2014 - 09:06 am Report abuse
Must be a dastardly British Plot, to build the RG's hopes up. then dash them down again. ha ha.
Playing games inside their heads.
38 José Malvinero (#) May 13th, 2014 - 10:42 am Report abuse
All a gesture the Brazilians: “We have these old maps of the Malvinas, of Pedro de Angelis, but we believe it is best donate to the real owners of the Islands”. Thanks.
39 Clyde15 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 11:16 am Report abuse
#38
No thanks. The owners of the Falkland Islands have no use for them.
40 Keith York (#) May 13th, 2014 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
LOL.......funny.
41 José Malvinero (#) May 13th, 2014 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
Nobody offered it to you, idiot. Brazil donated to Argentina because he believes in Argentine sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands Argentines.
If he believe they were under pirate sovereignty, he would be donated to the pirates.
But that would be impossible since both maps clearly reads: “Islas Malvinas” and not F. ... I
42 Troy Tempest (#) May 13th, 2014 - 03:59 pm Report abuse
probably worthless, then...
43 José Malvinero (#) May 13th, 2014 - 04:18 pm Report abuse
42
Are you going to deny the authenticity of these maps? , Ha ha!
44 Clyde15 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
#43
A bunch of old maps. Just because they are called the Malvinas does not prove they are Argentinian. Your proof lies with the ICJ.
45 GeoffWard2 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
I have seen old maps in a British museum that were of Argentina,
they were produced by THE BRITISH !!!!

I'm pretty sure they were railway maps designed to open up the 'uncontrolled' parts of Argentina.
This must give disputed ownership, at the very least.
46 lsolde (#) May 13th, 2014 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
So what you're saying Geoff, is that these maps show British ownership of Argentina? lt figures.
Well for a start we want all of you squatting Argentines to vacate the land immediately!
Go back to ltaly & Spain, leave the land to its rightful British owners, now.
@43 José Malvinero,
Are you going to deny the authenticity of these maps? ha ha.
47 José Malvinero (#) May 13th, 2014 - 08:11 pm Report abuse
These authentic (and there are many more) maps do not directly prove that the Malvinas are Argentine, but prove themselves were completely Spanish. Completely. No stupid Port Egmont on the island TRINIDAD (not “Saunders”). If they prove that they were Spanish speaks to much in pro of our cause.
In short: Messrs Docherty, Rossindell, Sawle, etc, etc... The Islands are called “Malvinas” and are Argentines.
Chau. A mamarla.
48 Clyde15 (#) May 13th, 2014 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
#47
just a point. Are these the oldest maps in existence ? I understood that the Malvinas were a Spanish corruption of the French Malouines

Claims of discovery date back to the 16th century, but there is no consensus on whether these early European explorers discovered the Falklands or other islands in the South Atlantic.[17][18][A] The first recorded landing on the Falklands is attributed to English captain John Strong, who discovered the Falkland Sound and “noted the water and game on the islands” on a voyage to Peru's and Chile's littoral in 1690

Your maps prove nothing.
49 Monkeymagic (#) May 13th, 2014 - 10:00 pm Report abuse
Jose

Proving the islands were Spanish DOES NOT HELP YOUR CAUSE.

Nobody disputes that there was a significant Spanish settlement on the islands between 1766 and 1811.

Unlike you, we have no need to lie or dispute this, it is historical fact.

It's hilarious that you think it relevant...as NOT ONE SINGLE one of the Spanish inhabitants of the islands EVER became Argentine. NOT ONE.

Some became Uruguayan and fought Argentina....most returned to Spain.

So, how on earth does a population of Spaniards, none of whom became Argentine, all of whom voluntarily left the islands....support your claim??

Hahahahahahaha...

Your claim would only be supported if those Spaniards, had never left the islands in 1811 and chosen to become Argentine in 1814 and maintained their colony on the islands.

If that had happened, and the British had evicted those Spaniards....then indeed I'd have sympathy for your claim.

However, that isn't what happened....the only 50 Argentines evicted in 1833 arrived six weeks earlier in 1832...and had already committed murder and rape.

More historic facts...and no need to lie.
50 lsolde (#) May 14th, 2014 - 08:13 am Report abuse
Well José, what do you say to that? mmmmmmmmm.
51 GeoffWard2 (#) May 14th, 2014 - 09:36 am Report abuse
Hi Isolde,
no, just joshing at Jose's expense.
Maps conferring ownership - who could possibly believe that! What they can do is set the boundaries of ownership once it is internationally established.
52 Pete Bog (#) May 14th, 2014 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
@47
“but prove themselves were completely Spanish.”

Who visited the Falkland islands in 1863 and saluted the Union Jack thus accepting British Sovereignty, (i.e. the Spanish did not invade the Falkland islands in 1863, so surely they would have not paid a courtesy visit to the Islands accepting British rule if they still claimed them then?

Argentina is not Spain.
53 A_Voice (#) May 14th, 2014 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
52
...got any documents transferring sovereignty from Spain to Britain....
Any at all....even a small one...?
Spaniards were just being polite...who were they the King of Spain...?
That's probably like the delegation from Uruguay visiting the Falklands and paying their respect...it's meaningless without documents...
54 Troy Tempest (#) May 14th, 2014 - 09:54 pm Report abuse
53
“...got any documents transferring sovereignty from Spain to Britain....”

...got any documents transferring sovereignty from Spain to Argentina?

Nope, thought not.
55 A_Voice (#) May 14th, 2014 - 10:53 pm Report abuse
54
When the British claimed independence from Britain in North America who inherited it...was it the French...?
So when the Spanish abandoned their possessions in the South Atlantic....you somehow think the preferred choice of inheritance would be the British....
...great logic.....
....and before you even go there.....West Falkland only....is my reply, so don't bother...
56 Troy Tempest (#) May 15th, 2014 - 03:34 am Report abuse
55

Idiot - the ex-Spanish rebels in SA viole y revolted against Spain and took all the local Spanish possessions they could hold - that being in the River Plate area, 1,000 miles away from the Falklands, nowhere near them.

It's laughable that you would suggest thst Spain lost Montevideo and then agreed chuck in everything else in the Southern Hemisphere as a gesture of brotherly love!!

Really, you are a schmuck !!
57 A_Voice (#) May 15th, 2014 - 06:53 am Report abuse
56
There's another fine example of the great Troy logic.....
“the River Plate area, 1,000 miles away from the Falklands, nowhere near them.”
So....Tierra del Fuego wasn't claimed then.....

What is laughable is your suggestion that Spain can lose Montevideo but cannot lose anything else....like some South Atlantic islands.....
Argentina fought for Independence from Spain and took Spain's possessions...there was no brotherly love involved.....
58 dab14763 (#) May 15th, 2014 - 11:04 pm Report abuse
US: Ownership established without the consent of the former owner by force or otherwise, means no inheritance. No inheritance happened till GB recognised the US in 1783
Leaving FI: Spain left with no intention of ceding any territory to anyone, not even UP territory to the UP.
You realise if (part of) the FI had been Spanish, and simple abandonment in 1811 had meant loss of sovereignty, then (part of) the FI would have become owned by no one. And you realise it’s impossible to inherit what was previously owned by no one. Any ownership established over something owned by no one isn’t established by an inheritance.
As it is
-Argentina’s never claimed it has sovereignty on the basis of occupying territory that belongs to no one as that’s incompatible with its position of inheritance from Spain.
-Simple abandonment isn’t enough to lose sovereignty. Sovereignty has to be relinquished. Sovereignty can be deemed relinquished after a long absence, but 1811 - 1833 was not long enough.
- Inheritance requires consent of the former sovereign. Spain only began consenting to the independence of its colonies in December 1836, not recognising Argentina till 1859, (with B A in 1863)
- Sovereignty established without consent requires full effective control of the whole territory, not just a small corner of it. Argentina was only briefly in Port Louis, and never even established full effective control of that
T del F: You realise T del F never was Spanish, except in deluded Spanish fantasies, regardless of what Spain may have claimed, as it was never subjugated, occupied, or settled by Spain. And it didn't become Argentine till the 1880s because it wasn't subjugated till then, regardless of what Argentina may claim.
West Falkland: If the UK didn't have sovereignty over East Falkland in 1833, it has certainly established it since.
Montevideo: Lost to those that established control over it
Independence, possession, and brotherly love: Only what it controlled and no inheritance.
59 Troy Tempest (#) May 16th, 2014 - 03:05 am Report abuse
58 dab14763 (#)

Thanks dab14763,
that puts paid to the great Voice logic quite neatly.

:-)
60 ilsen (#) May 17th, 2014 - 01:32 am Report abuse
(French) Guiana (officially just Guiana, French: Guyane) is an overseas department and region of France, on the north Atlantic coast of South America.
Whats that all about then?

Why don't we see news about this on Mercopress?

Is it just because Falkland/Argentina articles a just a guaranteed 'clickbait' for them leading to higher advertising revenues?

If so, we are all suckers for it............
61 Pete Bog (#) May 18th, 2014 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
@57
“Argentina fought for Independence from Spain and took Spain's possessions...there was no brotherly love involved....”

All of them?

In that case all of Latin America belongs to Argentina-good luck with your invasions of Chile, Paraguay Peru etc etc etc.
62 lsolde (#) May 19th, 2014 - 08:36 am Report abuse
@61 Pete Bog,
And the Philippines.
Spain ruled the Philippines for nearly 400 years.
And the Marianas lslands
And discovered the Solomon lslands
And were the first Europeans to sail between Australia & New Guinea.
So maybe all those lands belong to Argentina also! lol!
This is getting bigger than Ben Hur.
63 Pete Bog (#) May 19th, 2014 - 02:11 pm Report abuse
@62 Isolde

Looks like they're going to be busy at the UN for the next 5000 years trying to get that lot back.

Didn't Spain have Holland at one stage?

Be interesting to see if an Argentinian navy ship could get as far as Europe.

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