MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Kicillof formally meets 'Special Master' Pollack, but not holdouts delegates
Economy minister Axel Kicillof is heading the Argentine delegation that on Monday will hold a first formal meeting in New York with “Special Master”, financial expert Daniel Pollack, appointed as mediator by Judge Thomas Griesa in negotiations between the sovereign country and holdout hedge funds, according to a release late Sunday from Buenos Aires. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt´s time to give the ck-gang a name. as they call all holdouts “vultures” they can be named “crooks”.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0the senior crook capitanich means not he and the crook gang have caused the danger of a technical default but their creditors. that is quite new. he has only mentioned this at least ten times.
the settlement of the whole trash will take place in week 30/31.
Argentina’s mission headed by Kicillof to meet with mediator Daniel Pollack in New York want to check if the holdouts are simply insisting on being immediately paid the full value of their bonds, namely 1.33 billion dollars plus accrued interest, as ordered by US District Court Judge Thomas Griesa, or there are other options....
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lets see, do they want to be paid the moeny they are owed, of in magic beans.
A little over 3 weeks and they default, you would think this would be a priority.
When we had the black monday crash people took it seriously and took action quickly, and guess what coming out of the ERM was a good move and our economy quickly recovered.
These guys from Argentina just don't seem to get it do they.
Would love to see SINGER gatecrash the “ party ” now that would be something, Killitov would probably do a runner as Timmitov did with the FALKLANDERS.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0“According to Pagina12 Sunday edition, Argentina wants to ask the mediator if there was a possibility of negotiating a deal to settle the claims of all holdouts, while ensuring it was not exposed to fresh lawsuits from the creditors who accepted the tough terms of its debt swaps in 2005 and 2010.”
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0But CFK - Sick Note - said her debt swaps were generous and the creditors were happy.
Kicillof needs to stop running around whining to everyone obliged to listen and man up. If he sat down with the hedge fund and showed a willingness to pay, he might be surprised. The hedge fund have already said they are open to talks.
I can see it now, “ we are open to talks ” See here guys you owe us US$ 1.3 billion, when will you be paying us? Talks over. Argentina delegation leaves.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 I honestly think there is a deal to be done. At least, there was a deal to be done if Kicillof's balls had dropped and CFK could have been gagged (had laryngitis) earlier.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6
Jul 07th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not a very clever idea slagging off the USA and it's courts. I see BNP Paribas have agreed to pay to the USA US$ 9 billion in respect of them not respecting the sancions, a measly sum for them. Comon Argentina man up and pay up you know you want to. Incidently I do not see any word of a default in the UK papers so means very little to us.
@7 I expect when Argentines are hungry and cold there will be some coverage.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am seriously shocked that these rgs don't understand how the Courts work here and what their limits and responsibilities encompass.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neither the mediator or Judge can craft a deal for them, they can't rule on RUFO, in fact it is irrelevant to the case.
The consequences to Argentina of adhering to the judgment are IRRELEVANT.
I don't know why they can't get that through their thick heads.
Maybe this is all show and they really aren't that stupid.
But I am not quite sure.
Kilichoff is looking to kick the can down the road until December when we are not under the RUFO clause.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Singer wants his $ now, we will be in default 100%.
Yep, I've been saying there's no way for Arg to both come to a ratified agreement with the holdouts and avoid RUFO by eom July.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well its only 6 months of default.
I wonder what they have lined up to seize?
The U$ for the June bond payment is still in the USA.
That's convenient
Argentina will not settle: they simply have not got the money, even if they underwent an experience similar to “the conversion of Saul” and WANTED to pay.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's it really.
What have we learned in 2,069 years?
Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced,
the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to
foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work,
instead of living on public assistance.” Cicero - 55 BC
Evidently nothing..
@1. I don't object to giving the ck-gang a name, as you suggest. But surely “crooks” is a denigration of all respectable crooks. I reckon “slime” would be better as it is both accurate and descriptive. I wonder what Capitanich and Kicillof are planning to do in their very short future. Can't see anybody honest wanting them. Will they be running with CFK and hoping she'll let them lick up the crumbs from under her table? Have they noticed she has no history of buying male type clothing? How will you look in heels and little black number, boys?
Jul 07th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5, 6. I don't see a potential deal. Let's interpret. Kicilloff offers $100, the smallest he's got, and offers the rest in argie bonds guaranteed to NEVER pay out. Where's the basis for a deal? Doesn't argieland have over $29 billion in its reserves? Haven't the reserves increased by at least a billion this year alone? All to be paid in hundred-dollar bills. None of those well-used, small-denomination notes. Or perhaps the argies could pay in gold bullion.
@9. Why are you shocked? Or is that hyperbole? “Viveza criolla”, ignoring rules, a sense of responsibility and consideration for others. The proper way to deal with such “people” is to smash them in the mouth, driving their teeth down through their throat and, at the same time, taking a flying kick at their balls. Think of how, during the Prohibition era, the “Families” used to respond to mouthy defaulters. Haven't we become too “civilised”? Argieland isn't civilised. It's still at the dog eat dog stage. Let's treat it accordingly. The smallest dog is, apparently, the chihuahua. An annoying little yapper. Doesn't that sound like argieland?
I repeat. To avoid triggering RUFO there must be a settlement with the NML/elliot plaintiffs consisting of a stipulated judgment for the entire res judicata balance of all principle, interest and fees with an immediate part payment and stay of enforcement of the judgment until sometime after expiration of the RUFO applicability (Dec 2014).
Jul 07th, 2014 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The settlement should provide for complete satisfaction of the judgment upon x amount being paid in Jan 2015. That may avoid the RUFO problem.
Simulataneously, the parties should seek to consult with the other similarly situated holdouts and the court to agree on the non-applicablity of res judicata effect of the other pending $13B claims who may be resolved on independent or related terms as the NML claimants.
To criticize a judge as being stupid or wrong outside of court may not be contemptible, but accusing a judge of bias while appearing before him is different and may be considered a contempt of court. Kiciloff should avoid yelping about the bias of Griesa or else he may find himself involved in a a contempt hearing (or fleeing the jurisdiction). Ditto for the other idot politicians who are associated with the Arg vultures - the ones who ate the flesh of their creditors in order to subsidize the energy bills of the residents of Arg.
BUENOS AIRES— Norma Lavorato worked and saved for decades, but has spent most of her twilight years waiting for the Argentine government to pay back the $45,000 she invested in sovereign bonds and lost in Argentina's massive 2001 default.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york-talks-lift-hopes-of-small-argentine-bondholders-1404688383?mod=europe_home
Still stalling after 12 years.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oye Elvis ! You can run, but you can't hide.
Cabinet Chief Jorge Capitanich said Argentina is determined to “hamper the actions of any external agent” working to prevent bondholders from being paid and referred to a advert published in local and international newspaper to reassure bondholders of the government’s willingness to pay.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/164002/no-third-party-judge-is-entitled-to-prevent-bondholders-from-receiving-payment
Whine, whine, whine, sob, sob, sob, scream, scream, scream, kick, kick, kick - no my dear child, you won't get the chocolate bar, no matter how you behave.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The meeting with the mediator is over. Where's the update? Didn't it go well? Are they not negotiating “fairly” (whatever that means in crazyland)
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snicker
All the tough talk from Kicillof, Capitanich and others are for domestic use only - it's “look how we Tarzans can overcome every obstacle”.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IMO it is extremely unlikely that Argentina defaults on July 31. The consequences will almost certainly be the downfall of the present government, as less than half the Argentine population are members of the unwashed multitude; the rest understands what is at stake for their future.
I have just read in the New York Times that the Italian Government was going to pay to private suppliers US$ 102 billion owed in July, but they will now have to wait until the end of the year. Does anyone think the same could apply to Argentina?
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Italians as the Argies are kicking the can down the road.
It's 1.3 billion, it absolutely nothing. I cannot understand why they are risking everything for such a small amount of money that they owe.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK leant the Republic of Ireland 7 billion pounds in 2010 at the height of the financial crisis as one friend to another, surely their great friends Brazil could lend them this pittance, as one friend to another in their united south america?
@23 because of the RUFO clause, also we are a bit short on cash.
Jul 08th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 023-
Jul 08th, 2014 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0True, the Russian Federation, or China could easily loan Argentina that pittance of an amount to pay the outstanding debt.
The problem is Amigo, that most of that amount would then vanish along the way to repayment, with most gone, and only a shrug of the shoulders, a thin smile on the lips, and an innocent “ .No sé ” remaining.
@23 As I understand the RUFO clause, if Arg makes a voluntary offer to the holdouts to SETTLE their claim that is better than the amount it is paying to the 92%, then the 92% are entitled to as much (%wise) as was offered; however, I do not believe that RUFO is triggered by entry of a judgment or any compromise of said judgment after RUFO expires. I could be wrong, but I think that is what is in play here.
Jul 08th, 2014 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Moreover paying 1.3B to the NML /Elliot group of plaintiffs would only facilitate a full amount judgment for the remaining 13B of similarly situated holdout claims waiting in the wings. So it's not just about now paying the NML/Elliot plaintiffs a measly 1.3B. A lot more is involved.
@25
Jul 08th, 2014 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Chinese could bail out the Whacky leadership easily for a billion and a half. But of course they would want something substantial for it. Mineral rights, oil field rights or something along those lines. The Chinese can't grow their economy unless they secure resources around the world.
So the people in BA may have to get used to seeing a PRN destroyer or two moored at the docks as a “friendly” gesture to make sure that the Whacky leadership doesn't change their mind about their “understanding”...
I am flattered that the American justice system is more interested in the actions of my government than in the lives of their own citizens:
Jul 08th, 2014 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/killed-dozens-hurt-chicago-holiday-shootings-24453330
If we had 14 dead in just ONE WEEKEND in the streets of any Argentine city, there would have been a revolution to overthrow the government by now. Same if we had mass shootings every day land all over the place with multiple deathds each, like it has been the case this entire year (expect for the last 10-12 days).
Given the situation in places like Detroit, Baltimore, and Houston, and now Chicago, as well as increasing crime in Los Angeles, Miami, Atlanta, and Arizona, PLUS the mass shootings everywhere from a movie theater to a shopping mall to a church to a university, I think Argentina should convene an emergency meeting of the OAS and propose a peacekeeping mission to be deployed in that country where things are spiraling out of control.
IT would be the least we could do.
14 dead in one city in just a couple of days, w0w. Horrible, horrible place.
@28
Jul 08th, 2014 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The American justice system is interested in your government because it used the identity of a sovereign nation to rob investors and pension funds around the world of billions. The purpose of the court rulings were, quite frankly, to keep that sort of behavior from spiraling out of control.
I can agree with you that the everyday gun violence in the US is deplorable. Mass shootings, though, are rare - they just get massive publicity, which makes it seem like it happens every day. It's the everyday shootings that kill more people. In my own country we have very little gun violence, but it happens on rare occasions, although the price we pay is draconian gun laws.
But, the worst city in the US still pales compared to Venezuela and Colombia. And last I checked, it isn't Argentine citizens getting gunned down in Chicago.
And as you well know, the only street gun violence that ever affected me personally happened in Buenos Aires...and those weren't Chicago gangsters shooting at her either...
@28
Jul 08th, 2014 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very true, the murder-rate in the US is absolutely shameful, particularly for a “first-world” country. That being said, it's actually less than Argentina's (yes, check it out; Argentina has a higher murder-rate than the US; 6.0-vs-5.0/100,000). Glass houses and such. Still don't know how precisely it related to this actual column.
@30
Jul 08th, 2014 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because if @28 does not like the above story it is his policy to deflect the thread, he deflects everything detrimental to his beloved fatherland.
Back on topic.
Jul 08th, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The meeting took place, lasted for 4 hours and looks like Kickitoff spent the time lecturing him on the history of the defaults and requesting that the stay be reinstated.
It's been denied. How many times do they think they can make the same application to a judge?
32. It is mind boggling that they keep talking about consequences, history and asking for things that are out of bounds for the judge.
Jul 08th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0They still don't realize they lost.
Arg needs U$6B+ to pay for imports, Int'l loan payments this year. They have a funding gap. They were betting on WB and IDB loans of U$3B each to fund the gap. They mistakenly thought or were lead to believe if they settled with PC, Repsol,the ICSID judgments that the USA would allow the loans to be funded. The USA will not allow these loans to be funded until they in-status with the IMF ( 1+ yrs) and the holdouts have been satisfied.
They also need Arg 175B to cover the overspending of the gov't. So expect a massive flood of pesos to hit the economy between now and the eoy.
They are in it deep and they keep digging.
@31
Jul 08th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, if that's his modus operandi, then he's not particularly good at it, as that certainly was an own-goal; BA alone had 947 homicides last year (18 murders/week). Now, as @32 so aptly says, back on topic .......
@31
Jul 08th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah and in the 1980s and early 1990s New York City ha 2700 murders. I don't recall anyone calling that city or all other cities of the USA, at the time they were going through a 2-decade crime spree a crime, as “third world”, or as “unlivable”.
Yet you call Argentina unlivable with 947 in a city almost the size of New York? Seems like racist double-standards.
@29
The reason I have no respect for what you just said about the US justice system, is because in 2000s USA private banks used THEIR IDENTITY as reliable institutions to defraud investors, pensioners, and HOME owners of not billions, TRILIONS.
What has the US justice system done.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
ZERO
NULL
CERO
零
No one's ever heard anything in years about investigations.
Which proves the US justice system is 100% in the pockets of that country's financial industry.
@31
Jul 08th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I see what you mean now. I was hoping to find a decent English-based (my second language) form to intelligently discuss political and social issues pertinent to the South Atlantic region (I just returned from the Falklands, and will be in BA for four months, commencing September), but regrettably I guess I'll have to continue my search elsewhere. Despite only starting to peruse the posts on here as of last Thursday, there appears to be an inherent lack of respect and logic on this site, and sadly there's practically a perverse celebration of same. The silly, guttural exchanges (it certainly couldn't have been classified as a debate) on here over the weekend regarding who's an Anglo and a Hispanic were banal and down-right embarrassing; lacking even a modicum of decency or logic. I wonder if “Conqueror” and “Trolling_Stone” both realize that they are actually much, much more alike than they are different. I won't hold my breath for either of them on that one.
Despedida
http://tn.com.ar/politica/cristina-publico-una-carta-de-kicillof-en-respuesta-a-los-holdouts_513691
Jul 08th, 2014 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahaha
Elvis Austral is in way over his head.
Default is immanent.
Brr
grumble grumble
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