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Montevideo, September 24th 2018 - 08:23 UTC

CARICOM tells Venezuela it supports Guyana's integrity in territorial dispute

Wednesday, August 12th 2015 - 09:10 UTC
Full article 17 comments

Venezuela’s vice-president Jorge Arreaza recently heard directly from CARICOM chairman, Barbados’ Prime Minister Freundel Stuart, that the regional grouping is backing Guyana in the territorial dispute between the two South American neighbors. Stuart met last Friday with Arreaza who was visiting the island as part of a regional tour to discuss Venezuela’s territorial and maritime claims in the region. Read full article

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  • zathras

    For those who don't know:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Community

    Interesting that the smaller country with ownership of the lad is being supported by an international organization.

    Venezuela has Observer status, wonder if it will throw it's toys out of the pram and leave?

    Guyana's right to self determination and intact borders is what all freedom loving people(s) want.

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Oops! There's another plot. Venezuela isn't a member of CARICOM. Only an observer. 15 full members. 5 associate members. But there's not much in the way of military. Is the “Bolivarian Navy of Venezuela” any better than the “Armada of the Argentine Republic”? Enter the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. RAF aircraft are shipped to use any international airport. RN submarines launch cruise missiles to destroy venezuela's navy. How much easier could it be? And who would want to disappoint Maduro? Have a democratic vote. Then take him out and publicly execute him for crimes against humanity.

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @2 Conqueror

    Venezuela is a toothless tiger. It's fine when it thinks it can get away with bullying, but as you rightly point out, the moment the RN turn up they'd run for the hills.

    All Guyana has to do is ask the UK for assistance, and there is a very good chance that the UK would send it.

    The UK would also put Guyana's case to the UNSC should Venezuela get uppity, basically getting a ruling that tells Venezuela to back off.

    If Venezuela doesn't, then the UK would have every right under international law to defend Guyana. And who knows, maybe the Yanks would like a pop a Maduro too.

    But this is a huge blow for Maduro. He honestly thought that these CARICOM countries could be bribed. And maybe that is true. Maybe they can be bribed. But Mr Maduro forgot that in order to bribe people you have to have something to bribe them with, and Venezuela has NOTHING.

    Maybe Maduro will start a war, as so many failing dictatorships do, in order to distract people's attention from the problems at home, but Venezuela really would have it's arse handed to them if they tried.

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela ceded to the British Armed Forces the right to march through their capital city with “bayonets fixed, bands playing and flags flying”. This right was given by Simón Bolívar in recognition of the part played by British and Irish soldiers who fought in the war of independence from Spain.

    This right includes the capitals of Colombia and Ecuador - I once proudly witnessed the crew of a British warship together with their Royal Marine Band march through the streets of Bogotá, Colombia - the applause from the bogotanos was amazing! I felt so proud!

    I wonder if Maduro would allow this in 2015?

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Maybe Maduro will start a war=

    If he does, one strongly suspects he will lose, just like Argentina.

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon Bolivar

    Your lack of knowledge of History is expressed here. Guyana is only the remains of England invading somebody else lands. And Guyana land is only east of Esequibo river.
    This claims is much older than your Guyana. You may try to hide it, you may also try to tell lies to your friends and family, but not to History.
    Venezuelans is not taking land from Guyana. Guyana has only sovereignty east of Esequibo river. Please study what happened before
    Also think for a second: What favour so great will do England to Guyana signing for the Geneva Agreement ?. if there was a valid Treaty before?….Yes or No? Ahh, Sir. History does not lie. There is not sovereignty east of Esequibo for Guyana. Only to Venezuela.

    Aug 12th, 2015 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    The disputed territory is basically 100s of km2 of swamp and jungle. Which is why it has never been settled.
    Interesting place to fight a war....
    Still, Maduro has never been truly interested in this. It is the offshore sea territory that he wants to claim, and with it, his neighbour's oil rights.

    So much for Latin American brotherhood.

    Nothing but a distraction from Venezuela's massive economic woes.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @6 Simón Bolívar

    Are you posting from your grave? You died in Santa Marta on 17 December 1830! During your War of Independence you welcomed British soldiers to your land as part of la Legión Británica which fought for the independence of Gran Colombia.

    So what's your problem? It seems to me that you should be protesting against Nicolás Maduro - son 0f Hugo Chávez - who is doing more to destroy Venezuela much more than any border dispute with Guayana.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @Simon
    “Your lack of knowledge of History is expressed here”

    It certainly is.

    “Guyana is only the remains of England invading somebody else lands”

    Guyana was never invaded by England. It was settled by the Dutch the same way Venezuela was settled by the Spanish.

    In your namesake's war of independence against the Spanish, the independence forces did not go into modern Guyana territory because there were no Spanish bases there.

    So it was never Spanish, never Venezuelan and never invaded by the English. In fact the only British military activity in the area would have been your (Bolivar's) inner circle of British officers.

    By the time the British assumed control of the Dutch colonies, the Dutch had already clarified the western border with the Spanish who did not object the Dutch demarcation.

    In the 1890s Venezuela and Britain settled all remaining disputes at an international arbitration in Paris. An outcome Venezuela accepted.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • UncleTed

    Can someone please help me with my understanding of this.
    Hasn't Guyana turned its back on Britain and the Falklands, supporting and buddying up to Argentina?
    If that is so, why are we even suggesting any military involvement with this?
    If Guyana has chosen new friends, let them help.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @10
    I don't think Conq's RN fantasies will have much influence on British foreign policy.

    In 1903 when the US brought the British-German naval blockade of Venezuela to an end the European powers tacitly accepted the area was off limits to them.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @6. It's a pity that you don't know more about History. Back to 1616 when the Dutch started a trading post 25 kilometres upstream from the mouth of the Essequibo River. As settlement progressed, it was to both sides of the Essequibo River. Not least because there was gold to be mined west of the river. There's no record that the Spanish ever got that far. However, the Dutch weren't that good at colonising so the Dutch government opened the area to British migrants in 1746. By 1780 the internal affairs of the Dutch colony were effectively under British control. No invasion, you see. There by invitation. Then came war between the Netherlands and Britain. The British occupied Dutch colonies. That's legitimate. Then the French took over for about two years. The Dutch regained power in 1784. But the planters were in conflict with the Dutch West India Company. That led to the Concept Plan of Redress. Then came the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars. Britain declared war on France. The colonies were formally taken over by Britain in 1796 without bloodshed. The colonies were returned to Dutch control in 1802. But France hadn't learned so war resumed in 1803 and British troops returned. In 1814 the Dutch colonies were formally ceded to Britain. Where was the invasion? Where did Spain come into it? No sign of Venezuelan independence until 1811. Notice the dates. Basis of border established in 1616. No Venezuela until 1811. Independence in 1821. TWO HUNDRED AND FIVE YEARS TOO LATE. International tribunal on the matter of the border in 1897. Both sides accepted the border awarded by the tribunal in 1905. You don't accept a decision you believe is wrong. So Venezuela admitted it had no claim. Venezuela has nothing except Maduro flexing muscles he doesn't have.
    @10. Guyana is a member of the Commonwealth. The most capable nation in the Commonwealth is Britain. Venezuela is already trying to use force. The only other capable Commonwealth nation is Canada.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I doubt there will be a war. Maduro likes to rant, rave and issue pointless decrees.
    Actual decisive action is far beyond his capabilities.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @11. You were right with “I don't think”. Then you lost your way. No sign of the US bringing the British-German-Italian blockade to an end. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_Crisis_of_1902%E2%80%9303
    Seems to me that Venezuela was forced to comply with British/German/Italian demands. Perhaps you should read up on what actually happened rather than latam propaganda. Perhaps you could consider that, in 1903, Britain had the largest fleet in the world. It's always there in the background. In 1903, Britain was THE superpower. The Royal Navy may be smaller than the US Navy now but it wasn't then. There were somewhere between 35 and 40 capital ships. That means battleships. The US had less than half that.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @14 Conq
    Your understanding of what happened is limited. The US wanted arbitration and influence on what was happening in “their” hemisphere. They pressured the Brits and Germans to lift the blockade. They succumbed to the pressure and lifted the blockade.

    What you apparently don't appreciate from your wiki article is that the Venezuela crisis was a turning point for European powers in the Americas. The most powerful European nations would no longer defy US will in the Americas.

    It is certainly not “latam propaganda” to recognize that the US had eclipsed Europe by the turn of the century (the US economy had surpassed the British in 1872) This crisis was just one of the manifestations of that fact.

    Aug 13th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • UncleTed

    The Commonwealth is not a military alliance but a group of free and equal sovereign countries sharing culture language and common goals.
    That's not to say that Britain shouldn't use its considerable military capability in defence of it if required, in many cases i'm sure it would, but there is no obligation to do so.
    When Guyana, a Commonwealth country, so publicly supports a Foreign Nation hostile to another Commonwealth country and would wish that country to be taken over by Argentines, then I don't see why we would give them any support at all, either Military, political, or Financial. Guyana has nothing to gain by supporting Argentina's false claims, but should have a lot to lose (It could at least just act Neutral like 95% of the rest of the world). Personaly I think Britain should withdraw all financial aid to Guyana and propose having them suspended from the Commonwealth.
    As for Venezuela, go and help yourself to as much of Guyana as you want, its what Guyanans would wish upon the Falkland Islanders. Guyana sure as hell wont get any help from its buddies in BA.

    Aug 14th, 2015 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    15 Condorito
    “The most powerful European nations would no longer defy US will in the Americas.”
    “In the 1890s Venezuela and Britain settled all remaining disputes at an international arbitration in Paris. An outcome Venezuela accepted.” re: 9 Condorito
    “In 1814 the Dutch colonies were formally ceded to Britain.” re: 12 Conqueror
    In conclusion your claim “In 1903 when the US brought the British-German naval blockade of Venezuela to an end the European powers tacitly accepted the area was off limits to them.” re:11 is not correct as the US already recognized British sovereignty established prior to implementation of the Monroe Doctrine(Dec 02, 1823). 'As late as 1886 the Secretary of State found it necessary to inform the Argentine Government that as “the resumption of actual occupation of the Falkland Islands by Great Britain in 1833 took place under a claim of title which had been previously asserted and maintained by that Government, it is not seen that the Monroe Doctrine, which has been invoked on the part of the Argentine Republic, has any application to the case. By the terms in which that principle of international conduct was announced, it was expressly excluded from retroactive operation.” P.60 Sovereignty and the Falkland Islands Crisis D.W. Greig
    “In 1894, William L. Scruggs, an attorney..was hired by the Venezuelan Government to negotiate on its behalf. ..Mr. Scruggs then persuaded the United States Congress to pass a resolution urging Britain and Venezuela to arbitrate the dispute”
    CHALLENGES TO THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF GUYANA: A LEGAL ANALYSIS Thomas W. Donovan
    As they say the rest is history. So you now have Venezuela reneging on a remedy that they actively promoted.

    Aug 17th, 2015 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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