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Sour victory for Macri: all fugitives captured after 15-days on the run; 'the whole system is rotten'

Tuesday, January 12th 2016 - 07:24 UTC
Full article 84 comments

Fifteen days of a major embarrassment for the government of Argentine president Mauricio Macri came to an end on Monday after police commandos recaptured two of the country's most notorious convicts in a rice mill plant, ending a 15-day manhunt through backwater towns and two provinces. Read full article

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  • golfcronie

    “ Crack police” ” is that Argentinian for the police on drugs?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    The story that has gripped Argentina for 15 days but we had to follow it elsewhere. The gang were apprehended when their car overturned on the badly maintained roads. The car/van had the markings of a police car and one report has them in police uniform. There is no doubt that they were assisted in their escape.

    I suspect 'The Walrus' Aníbal Fernández is up to his neck in the drugs trade and complicit. Things are getting uncomfortable for the K's.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @2 . Actually the “gang” were apprehended in two separate operations. The first of the Lanatta brothers (Martín) was recaptured a few days ago. The other two fugitives were caught together more recently in Cayastá, not far from the first apprehension, and taken to the local police station. But when the federal police arrived they were not allowed into the building, which created quite the scene but it probably made sense since there was a possibility of engineering yet another escape. And it was evidently the federal police themselves who had mis-reported the earlier capture of all three to Macri's cabinet, and when they discovered that they had been misinformed, they were furious. And the whole thing took on a sort of Keystone Cops aspect, and making the Macri government look foolish.

    The details of the recapture are also interesting. There was one worker on his way to the rice processing plant who for some reason had notified the local police that he was going to the plant, apparently because of the local dragnet and a reasonable concern that the fugitives might be hiding out there. But the worker didn't wait for the police to arrive before he went in and started work, when the bad guys grabbed him and locked him in a room. But shortly thereafter the provincial police did arrive and it was Game Over at that point. At least for the time being.

    One of the interesting features of the recent events is that Macri is so publicly discussing the corrupt nature of many of the penal and law enforcement agencies, something that it seems everybody either knows or suspects, and of course this corruption is one of the Seven Pillars of Peronism and more specifically, Kirchnerism. So Macri's job is doubly difficult, since there is an enormous fifth column installed in the government agencies. The question on everyone's mind is whether the Morsa is going to be able to silence those three guys before someone sings.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Make no mistake, the Kirchners are at the head of the drug trade. As I said before an elegant solution is to let the USA DEA full access and authority in Argentina. Let them fix this mess. They offered and they're already on site.

    Anyhoo, everyone knows Argentina is corrupted.
    The police and courts are bought and paid for

    That's one of the reasons Rgs can't function in civilized society....
    Remember CFK asking Odumbo to intervene in USA court decisions/process?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @3 Yes, I have been following the story closely, including the “we have all three….oops, no we don't……. ah, now we do!”

    The corruption is endemic, everyone knows that and talks about it openly. That Macri is tackling it head on is either going to be the best thing that ever happened there or will end in a bloodbath.

    Don't you think Macri has to go full pelt on restructuring the economy and the corruption because if he doesn't people will not see the fruits of the changes before the next election. It will take two terms to see any real improvement.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Macri may make some corrections and may make some people feel good, particularly those willing to recklessly invest and eventually lose in Argentina. But he doesn't have the power base or the experience. Having a handful of potentially reliable and competent cabinet members and some support in the agro area and twelve acolytes in Recoleta is not going to go far against the entrenched malcontents that make up the real centre of mass and influence for the country. It's going to take more than two Macri terms and more than a generation to even get the argentos thinking that there may be a form of life that differs from one based on massive corruption and Futbol Para Todos. And what does Argentina have to offer to the world? What it manufactures is largely unreliable and/or overpriced junk. The market can only bear so much mendocino Merlot. World food prices are down and Paraguay is out-producing Argentina in beef exports. The market for soy is down and the competition is up. Even the Patagonia yuppie company won't buy Argentine wool anymore. YPF won't be exporting any surplus hydrocarbons for another 25 years. So just what does Argentina have to offer except discount bordello dance lessons for seniors groups visiting from Cleveland and Calgary?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    It will take a generation or two to fix the Society of Argentina. They're taught that corruption is okay, they enjoy it, they think you're stupid if you don't just pay the cops or gov't officials. They don't think they need to abide by contracts when it becomes inconvenient. They have no honor.
    As I've been saying, this can not and will not be fixed with just a Prez either one or two terms.
    The problems they have go to their very bones.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @7 Fix? Why do you want every country to be just like the U.S? As I said before, you can't go to another country an expect them to fall in with your way of thinking. It is why you couldn't hack it there. It is a different culture and you have to play by their rules, not try to make the whole country play to your rules. It must have been a huge blow to your ego when they laughed at you.

    @6 I think there is an awful lot that is good about Argentina. The change in thinking to make the country more successful in the long-term will take time. But small changes could just be the impetus.

    I am not sure all investors will lose their money. There is huge potential to make short-term money out of investing in Argentina right now but that doesn't really help the country in the long-term.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    “Fifteen days of a major embarrassment for the government of Argentine president Mauricio Macri”

    I fail to see why it should be a major embarrassment for Macri.

    I may be misinformed, but as far as I know, Macri became president 34 days ago.

    Did Macri build the Argentine security forces and police system bottom up in those 34 days?

    Or was it destroyed during the 12 years of kirchenerist governments?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    police commandos ,
    seems they have done a great job..

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jaydub

    Argentina sounds like a failed state

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @10 As with so much of the rubbish that is written by and for Mercopiss, the mention of “police commandos” in the arrest of the last two fugitives is pure invention. The special ops police arrived *after* the arrests were made and everything was under control.

    Here is what happened.

    The wife of the plant worker worried about her husband, Martín Franco, going alone to the empty plant, since the first of the Lanatta brothers had been apprehended a short distance away and the community was on tenterhooks. So Martín called the regular old police (provincial police) and asked for an escort for him when he planned to enter the empty buildings. Presumably empty buildings. He got there and the police escort had not arrived, but Martín recognised the bad guys in a tractor cab. ... but bad guys took Martín prisoner, which he described as being a hostage or shield. Locked him in a clothes-changing room. But then the Regular Old Provincial Police arrived, and the bad guys surrendered to them without a struggle.

    Only *after* the arrests were made and things were under control did the special cops, the “Tropa de Operaciones Especiales” or TOEs as they call them, arrive for the crumbs and glory. So it was not the police commandos or SWAT team or crack police or whatever you want to call them, who were responsible for the apprehension and arrest. Just more bad reporting of/by/for Mercopiss.

    BTW I think Martín deserves a biscuit or something nice for his part in this.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine/Think/Voice, whom do you think laughed at me?

    I was on vacation for 5 years, employed 5-6 people in my house, ate in the best restaurants, stayed in the best hotels, went to the best clubs, traveled to another SoAm country every 3 months and basically lived a life that very few can do.

    As I've said many times, I liked it until the corruption, violence, filthiness, homelessness, dead-eyed children begging, hoards of nightly zombie cartoneros picking through garbage, broken sidewalks, endless road cuts, many blackouts just got too much to bear so I can back to the USA. Its really quite simple.

    Yes I expect every country to want to emulate the USA. Why not try to be like the best? Argentina has a rich landmass, 1/3 of the size of the USA with 15% of the people. It could be very wealthy if not for the corruption and the Statism/Socialism that has made it one of the poorest and getting poorer every year for the last 100 yrs.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @13 “Yes I expect every country to want to emulate the USA. Why not try to be like the best? ” Indoctrinated.

    “I was on vacation for 5 years, employed 5-6 people in my house, ate in the best restaurants, stayed in the best hotels, went to the best clubs, traveled to another SoAm country every 3 months and basically lived a life that very few can do.”

    Oooh, get you. There are plenty of ex-pats living that lifestyle in developing countries, it is not impressive. If you could live permanently like that in the U.S. it might signify something but you are back at the grindstone again.

    There are two types of ex-pats in the countries I visit. One group that integrate and embrace the culture, fit in and love it. The others try to emulate everything they had at home at a cut price and imagine it will impress the locals. They rarely last before heading home again.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @8 Yes, fix. Getting the drug-crime-based corruption under control here is indeed a worthy objective, and fix is an appropriate description. It is hard for me to believe that implicit in your [ @8 ElaineB ] response is the opinion that the present degree of corruption, the sort that springs murdering felons from high-security prison, is something that should be just accepted as some sort of valuable cultural attribute.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine/Think/Voice, no more indoctrinated than you.

    I never intended to impress anyone. I was brought up the right way.
    Plus I lived behind walls so nobody really knew anything. That way I wasn't on a list to get kidnapped.

    Most expats head home around 4-6yrs just like I did.

    I like working if I didn't I wouldn't.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @15 I think the current government in Argentina should fix their problem with drugs and corruption. It is the only way. I don't think the U.S. or any outside organisation should meddle - at least not openly. To do so not only plays into the Peronist mindset - the big bad U.S. is trying to take us over - but because it is the step they need to take in becoming a developed nation. You have to let them sort their own problems. Time to grow up.

    @16 Weak response as usual. You are always trying to let us know how important you are here. On a message board. Really? Even a job interview. Desperate much.

    Isn't it time you got over your failure in Argentina? Some of the negatives you listed are real problems in Argentina but they are not overwhelmingly what defines the country. You come across as so bitter and plain nasty when you state the poor there should starve. Nasty. Nasty. Can't you get over it and move on? You couldn't hack it there and, as you say, a lot of people like you can't.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You read so much stuff into very simple posts. I have never intended to brag. Nothing I write is untruthful and its all commonplace to me.

    Crime, corruption, blackouts and everything else I stated above absolutely define Argentina. Have you really ever been there?

    You are right that I couldn't “hack” it, if by that I was able to leave a terrible place and go somewhere nice.
    I can't “hack” cheap hotels or bad restaurants either.

    If anyone is bitter and nasty its you.
    You just can't see it because your so full of yourself.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    YB

    You seem to contradict yourself:

    “I was on vacation for 5 years, employed 5-6 people in my house, ate in the best restaurants, stayed in the best hotels, went to the best clubs, traveled to another SoAm country every 3 months and basically lived a life that very few can do.”

    “You are right that I couldn't “hack” it, if by that I was able to leave a terrible place and go somewhere nice.
    I can't “hack” cheap hotels or bad restaurants either.”

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    @11. Failed state.

    I said that 2 years ago.

    Hello Candanites.

    Where's the freebooter?

    lol.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    19. How is that a contradiction? I was comparing the country ofArgentina to a bad hotel or restaurant that I could choose to leave and go to a better one.

    You really don't have good comprehension do you?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @21 It took you five years?

    You do contradict yourself. You like working but you took a five year vacation and only left then because of the crime. Nowhere in the world is better than the U.S. but you abandoned it for five years.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    22. Yep, the first few years went by really fast and the last one was a mistake. I should have gone home sooner.

    The crime wasn't a problem when I moved there but it got really really bad very quickly. Houses around me started getting commando assaulted, cars started to get boxed in and the people kidnapped even though we had 24hr guards it didn't seem to help. When my neighbor had his son's finger delivered that was the end of my feeling comfortable in Argentina.

    I didn't realize how great the USA is until I spent a significant time away from it. When people travel for vacation its easy to fall in love with a place because you're usually not dealing with the drudgery of everyday life. I've been to 30+ countries in my life and I now know I would never move permanently from the USA. Anything I want I can find here. Its safe, cheap and a great place to live. I do love to tavel though. It is my life's ambition. Every year I add a country or two. The world is fascinating.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    Spankingboy tries to make us believe:

    “Yes I expect every country to want to emulate the USA. Why not try to be like the best?”

    Great country, which destroyed its middle class and gave money and power to the oligarchs.

    “Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy”

    The U.S. government does not represent the interests of the majority of the country's citizens, but is instead ruled by those of the rich and powerful, a new study from Princeton and Northwestern universities has concluded.

    The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities in September is called “Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens”. It used extensive policy data collected between 1981 and 2002 to empirically determine the state of the U.S. political system. Researchers concluded that U.S. government policies rarely align with the preferences of the majority of Americans, but do favour special interests and lobbying organizations.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I'm middle class.
    I'm happy here.

    But I get where the article is going;

    There's an unease in the USA. There's a feeling that the Gov't no longer represents the people. That's why the candidates that are most popular are seen as not part of DC.
    We'll change it
    Watch and see
    I have great faith in the people of the USA.
    We self correct well.

    It's still better than any place I've ever been and that's about 1/3 of the world.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FarmBoy

    Even the Argentine president agrees with YB that things need to be cleaned up. Who would disagree? Why are you arguing with the point?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @26 If you are addressing me, I am not arguing that point. I am saying that the Argentine government should clean it up.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    In #13 Spankingboy tells us: “I was on vacation for 5 years, employed 5-6 people in my house, ate in the best restaurants, stayed in the best hotels, went to the best clubs”

    In #16 Spankingboy tells us: “I lived behind walls so nobody really knew anything.”

    It must have been a really big place, which within its walls contained the best restaurants, the best hotels and the best clubs.

    Did you forget to tell us about your 3 lbs. gold spoons and your 4 lbs. gold lighter?

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    26. They just like to argue with me for no reason.

    I have the absolute gall to speak my mind and for gosh sakes I think people should be responsible for themselves and their own well being.

    I think people would work more if they had an empty belly.

    Elaine thinks that's mean.

    Elaine thinks the state can and must solve all your problems and make everyone happy wealthy and wise.

    Jan 12th, 2016 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    “The three men were serving life sentences for the 2008 killing of three businessmen in the pharmaceutical industry.”
    The article omitted to note that one of the three--Martín Lanatta--had given a TV interview to Clarín Group journalist Jorge Lanata linking Aníbal Fernández with the triple crime.
    This denunciation--which the convicted did not repeat when giving testimony before a judge at a later date--may have influenced the election in Buenos Aires Province, having a role in Fernández' defeat.
    After the escape, BA Security Minister Cristian Ritondo alternatively suggested that Fernández would have helped the three men so that he could kill Martín Lanatta, and later it ventured he was just help them to hide.
    While Macri cannot be held accountable for the many failures of participating police forces, the manner in which the government handled the information as days went by was nothing short of disastrous.
    The whole story played as a smokescreen, diverting attention from thousands of layoffs and other deep transformations the Macri government is making by decree during the dog days of summer.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    16
    Huh Elaine ???...Me???
    Can I, at least be a fit attractive Elaine...?
    I've got a reputation to look after....

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Enrique,

    Are you stating that Macri was deliberately putting up a “smokescreen”?

    Considering that the fiasco and police betrayals reflected poorly on the authorities, it seems highly unlikely.

    As CFK has shown so well in the past, grandstanding and finger pointing at the “Malvinas” is far more effective as a distraction.

    Macri has made no attempt to hide layoffs or purges of the noquis, in fact his actions have been applauded by the average Argentines who view them as parasites on the government gravy train.

    Happy New Year to you in Alberta.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Not always agree with Elaine but..she kicked your ugly butt Mr. YankeeFred :-)
    8 ElaineB (#)

    “@7 Fix? Why do you want every country to be just like the U.S? As I said before, you can't go to another country an expect them to fall in with your way of thinking. It is why you couldn't hack it there. It is a different culture and you have to play by their rules, not try to make the whole country play to your rules. It must have been a huge blow to your ego when they laughed at you”

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @29 “I think people would work more if they had an empty belly. Elaine thinks that's mean.”

    This is not the conversation we had. You wanted to stop all welfare immediately Macri took office. I pointed out that it would be disastrous and the poor would starve. You thought this was great and the poor should die. You also used the words 'filthy' and 'animals'.

    You have a very simplistic way of looking at things. Macri is trying to move jobs from the state to the private sector and it will take time. He is already laying off all the 'false' workers and to cancel welfare now would have thousands starving with no jobs to be had. It is the poorest and most vulnerable that would suffer. Not incidentally, Macri would not last a week under those conditions as Argentina is a democracy not a dictatorship.

    “Elaine thinks the state can and must solve all your problems and make everyone happy wealthy and wise.”

    Another complete, I want to say fabrication but it is a blatant lie. I don't believe in big government at all. I do believe that a civilised society should provide a safety net for the less able and vulnerable members of society. That is something quite different to the government employing everyone. Government is a reflection of the society.

    @30 It is a complex and fascinating story to follow. To claim it is all a smokescreen when Marci is doing exactly what he said he would do if elected is stretching it a bit. The K's are up to their necks in drugs trafficking and it is refreshing to see someone with the balls to tackle it.

    There is every reason to argue with you, YB. Your views are repugnant, simplistic and ill-informed born out of irrational hatred towards a country you just couldn't hack. You left. Let it go.

    @31 Hahaha.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    There is every reason to argue with you, Elaine. Your views are repugnant and ill-informed born out of irrational hatred.

    I do have a simplistic view, simple answers are usually the right answers.

    I also believe in a safety net BUT I don't believe in paying people not to work for extended periods of time.

    I stand by my statements of calling them filthy animals, have you never witnessed first hand the animals who protest with their faces covered and with large bats? Destroying business and injuring people as they press for more free money?

    I find you a disgusting human being Elaine.
    You're bitter and your posts prove it.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @35 Ooooh, how clever you are just repeating my words. Couldn't you manage to find some of your own? Did you lose your 'amazingly high' IQ overnight?

    As usually your arguments are inconsistent and weak. Kinda like you.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine, You are bitter. It oozes from your posts.
    Go find some sex. You'll feel better, the sense or worthlessness you feel may subside and you will think that someone actually may care about you, clean out the cobwebs and get on Tinder.
    Sound advice don't take it lightly.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    @ 37 Spankingboy

    remember that when you point your finger at somebody, three fingers point back at yourself. You seem to have described your own sad position and you should follow your own advice.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @38 Quite.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Macri should offer them a plea bargain to squeal on the heads of the drug cartel - CFK and fat Max.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    Will they have time to squeal of the heads of the drug cartels before they are Nisman'ed? I wonder.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    I enjoyed every line of Elaine's very appropriate responses to YB, as well as other posters' comments about this sort of worst example of a U.S. citizen.
    And no, I did not mean to imply that Macri orchestrated the escape. This comedy of errors spoke as bad about the state of police forces (previous government) as of the current team's crisis management capabilities.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    @ 34 ElaineB who writes: “I do believe that a civilised society should provide a safety net for the less able and vulnerable members of society.”

    Any decent society does that.

    As I see it:

    Those who can provide for themselves shall do so.

    Those who cannot, must be helped to provide for themselves through education, change of working conditions to suit the less fit, etc.

    Those who are utterly unable to provide for themselves (diseases, etc.) must be provided for.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Socialists/Statists/Communists are all the same.
    It's sad they must use emotions to try and sway an argument
    But that's all they have
    Facts are not their friends

    Those Ephedrine dealers will squeal right up to the Ks.
    Let those Ks rot in a nice USA jail where they belong.
    I can't wait to see CFK without her wig and troweled on makeup
    wait or do I?
    Maybe she can share with Hillary.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    So tell us, Spankingboy, how far should we drive liberty?

    To what extent should a country refuse to help citizens in need?

    How little government is small enough?

    Tell us, should most of the US military (all three branches) be abandoned, serving only to defend the rest of the world (yes, I can find and quote your scribble)?

    Who needs the police? why should a chap who owns next to nothing pay taxes to maintain a huge police force, which doesn't protect him?

    Why waste money on jails? In a really free society you are free to do whatever you feel like.

    Tell us, is it alright to rob a bank? to be a highwayman? should homicide be allowed?

    Let us know: are you for or against real freedom?

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    45.
    What I am calling for is not libertinism or hedonism. It is not a claim that “people can do anything they want to, and nobody else can say anything.” Rather, I proposes a society of liberty under law, in which individuals are free to pursue their own lives so long as they respect the equal rights of others. The rule of law means that individuals are governed by generally applicable and spontaneously developed legal rules, not by arbitrary commands; and that those rules should protect the freedom of individuals to pursue happiness in their own ways, not aim at any particular result or outcome.

    Limited Government. To protect rights, individuals form governments. But government is a dangerous institution. I have a great antipathy to concentrated power, for as Lord Acton said, “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Thus they want to divide and limit power, and that means especially to limit government, generally through a written constitution enumerating and limiting the powers that the people delegate to government. Limited government is the basic political implication of libertarianism, and libertarians point to the historical fact that it was the dispersion of power in Europe — more than other parts of the world — that led to individual liberty and sustained economic growth.
    I see the individual as the basic unit of social analysis. Only individuals make choices and are responsible for their actions. My thought emphasizes the dignity of each individual, which entails both rights and responsibility.

    As to welfare the max someone should be able to get gov't assistance, if they are able to work is 2 years out of 7 years. And if they choose to accept gov't assistance they lose their ability to vote.
    Simples.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @46 Hahahahaha. I see you can copy and paste now. Hehehehe.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Yep. They can say it much better than I can it only took a few seconds to respond to Don Alberto's hyteria.

    Did you download Tinder and clean out the cobwebs yet?

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @48 With your I.Q.? That bumming around for 5 years addled your brain.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Smart people use the internet
    Don't they?

    Why recreate the wheel when I don't have to?
    I'm guessng dumb people might do that....

    I have another idea for you, take a weekend and got to Cologne maybe if you stand around the train station and do some much needed refugee outreach.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @50 Why couldn't you find your own words to express your beliefs since you are so adhered to them?

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Seriously? Are you Seriously asking that?

    Sheesh you're a blockhead.
    Why would anyone waste time when I could do what I did?

    You must be so used to people backing down when you try to shame them
    Not here, Sistah.
    Not here.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @52 Hahaha. “Not here, Sistah.” Look at you trying to trash talk. O.K. Girlie, girl.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Nope, you don't pay attention do you?
    Sistah.

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    ElaineB has totally demolished YB--with class and argument.
    Backed to a corner, the only thing this individual can do is to add sexism to his customary insult collecction.
    Way to go YB. You have succeeded in repulsing most here.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @46 YB

    “As to welfare the max someone should be able to get gov't assistance, if they are able to work is 2 years out of 7 years. And if they choose to accept gov't assistance they lose their ability to vote.”

    YB,
    Surely a country whose Constitution guarantees equality for all, would enshrine the vote as sacred, even over a later amendment that vaguely says the citizens can bear arms.

    In short, if you are an American, and adhere to American values, it is not up to you or any American citizen to say who is entitled to vote.

    Sorry, find another method of exclusion.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Why do liberals think people can't have opinions other than what they agree with?

    TT, the constitution has been changed a number of times and its time to change it again.

    Reekie, I hope you can survive when the Can$ goes to $0.60/U$1.
    Alberta may turn the lights out.
    :)

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    57 YB

    “TT, the constitution has been changed a number of times and its time to change it again”

    You would need to do that through a majority of the existing eligible voters - try to convince them to disenfranchise themselves, and compromise the ideals the US was founded on.

    Your vision sounds scary - “we will pay you money for the food and medical care you need and can't afford, in exchange for your right to vote”

    Nice one.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FarmBoy

    TT, luckily the US Supreme Court does not consider the second amendment to be vague.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Thank goodness you don't need a popular vote to change the constitition.

    And my idea is reasonable, fair, sound, easy to implement and manage.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    “...manage...” yeah, I bet.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    Then there was the educated Texan from Texas who looked like someone in Technicolor and felt, patriotically, that people of means—decent folk—should be given more votes than drifters, whores, criminals, degenerates, atheists and indecent folk—people without means.

    Yossarian was unspringing rhythms in the letters the day they brought the Texan in. It was another quiet, hot, untroubled day. The heat pressed heavily on the roof, stifling sound. Dunbar was lying motionless on his back again with his eyes staring up at the ceiling like a doll’s. He was working hard at increasing his life span. He did it by cultivating boredom. Dunbar was working so hard at increasing his life span that Yossarian thought he was dead. They put the Texan in a bed in the middle of the ward, and it wasn’t long before he donated his views.

    Dunbar sat up like a shot. ‘That’s it,’ he cried excitedly. ‘There was something missing—all the time I knew there was something missing—and now I know what it is.’ He banged his fist down into his palm. ‘No patriotism,’ he declared.

    ‘You’re right,’ Yossarian shouted back. ‘You’re right, you’re right, you’re right. The hot dog, the Brooklyn Dodgers. Mom’s apple pie. That’s what everyone’s fighting for. But who’s fighting for the decent folk? Who’s fighting for more votes for the decent folk? There’s no patriotism, that’s what it is. And no matriotism, either.’ The warrant officer on Yossarian’s left was unimpressed. ‘Who gives a shit?’ he asked tiredly, and turned over on his side to go to sleep.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @55 Quite. He is a repulsive. That he advocates sexual molestation of women, promotes Tinder - the one-night-shag app. - with such frequency and thinks any woman that disagrees with him needs a good fucking to sort them out, says everything about his questionable attitude to women. Emotionally and intellectually retarded. A total sleaze.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    63. I thought you loved the savages in Germany?

    My my what a change we've seen over the last month.

    Total fraud.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    64 YB

    Not a fraud.

    You have taken it upon yourself to speak for ElaineB - you are the one misrepresenting her.

    Elaine saying that she supports sanctuary for civilian Syrian refugees certainly does NOT mean she supports rapes and sexual assaults.

    It is ridiculous to suggest that, just as it would be ridiculous for us to say that because YB supports unrestricted public access for guns in the US, it means YB supports mass shootings of elementary school children.

    I would hope so, at least.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    My my you have some twisted logic

    Most of the libtards on this board were telling me how heartless I was and blah blah blah
    Now that they were shown to be savages all the libtards have gone quiet.

    Makes me laugh

    No matter how hard they cry and whine to get what they want their policies always end up being disastrous.
    The difference here is it only took a few weeks for it to be shown.
    Germany is doomed and may pull down the rest of the EU with it.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • St.John

    It is typical of somebody like yankeeboy to use nothing but epithets about the other party because he has run out of real arguments.

    It is not surprising that fewer and fewer want to waste time arguing with him.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I wish people would just accept that I am correct and stop arguing with me.

    Alas....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRfP_TEQ-g

    enjoy.

    Jan 14th, 2016 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    A little update on the story of Macri and thee Three Stooges.
    Yesterday the government--featured by Clarin on front page with catastrophe-size headlines--said it had found a video showing the Santa Fe police had initially arrested the three fugitives.
    This would have proved true the government's announcement of the arrest of the three--shown later to be untruth, as only one of the three was taken.
    Today, somebody featured in the video came forward, and the whole video story crumbled. The Macri government has been a laughing stock again.
    Clarin had a very small article on its online edition about the news--and the said article has now disappeared.
    The Team shows amazing amateurism.

    Jan 15th, 2016 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    69. Adults are finally running Argentina. Leaders from the civilized world are finally able to talk to someone with sense.
    Your posts make you sound like the sore loser you are...

    Jan 15th, 2016 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @69 La Nación doesn't seem to have any trouble discussing it. And the droids were not those being sought.

    “El personal policial detuvo un Renault Megane con tres hombre a bordo. Al constatarse que no se trababa de los tres malvivientes buscados, se les pidió las disculpas del caso y procedieron a continuar con la búsqueda del paradero de los delincuentes”, expresó el comunicado.

    Read the rest:

    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1862412-la-pista-que-no-fue-un-video-que-desperto-sospechas

    Jan 15th, 2016 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    Argentina should do absolutely NOTHING about drug trafficking.

    Except for making sure that government officials and police are not involved in this (or any other illegal activity), the fact that EUIANS and NORTHAMOANS are a bunch of crack babies is not my problem and I have no reason to see my taxes going into tracking down their powder to stop their addiction.

    If EUIANS and NORTHAMOANS can't stop themselves from being junkies and do not do anything about it within their own countries, or apparently are completely and utterly inept in their institutions to stop people from getting access to these substances, to then I shouldn't stop them either. The police here needs to catch criminals that steal from us, not criminals that just are filling a market need in EUialand and Northamoland.

    Jan 16th, 2016 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    70 YB

    Quite agree - finally we are dealing with adults again and not petulant sociopaths, anymore.

    @69 Enrique

    Macri's government was undermined by a corrupted police force they inherited from the K's, a police force whose members were accustomed to payoffs for looking the other way, and facilitating crimes.

    Macri is already cleaning house.

    If that is all you can find to criticise Macri's administration, it sounds like they are moving competently and effectively, and doing so with the support of the Argentine public.

    Jan 16th, 2016 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    Idiot child Enrique Massot writes in #30: “The whole story played as a smokescreen, diverting attention from thousands of layoffs and other deep transformations the Macri government is making by decree”

    When ex-president candidate Scioli left the governorship of provincia Buenos Aires, he also left only 135 million almost worthless Argentine pesos or app 11 per inhabitant.
    He left no money to pay bills, no money to pay salaries, so how can it be avoided to kick a million ñoquis out of their sponging positions?

    (ñoquis: non-working “public servants” who are “employed” by nepotism only because they are kirchneristas and whose only job is to collect their monthly paycheck).

    Jan 16th, 2016 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    72. You might want to tell the residents of Rosario, and many of the other major cities in Argentina that live under the control of drug lords. Where the police are afraid to go or work for the drug lords.
    You may also want to take a look at the teens and pre-teens that are begging and selling their bodies to buy drugs. They're easy to spot, dead eyes, filthy, scrawny, dirty and they're at just about every traffic light in the cities.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @75 YB

    Agreed, the so-called ' Argentine' Trolls will just make illogical statements, ignorant of the true situation, if it serves their purpose of insulting us or simply contradicting what we or the article is saying.

    Integrity for sale. Bigotry on tap.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Argentine media are starting to cover more details of the time that the fugitives were on the lam. And the weapons they had. Pretty impressive collection that included at least two submachine guns. Argentina might want to think about doing background checks and having their president make a national speech about firearms being a shared responsibility or something.

    It looks as though the prison officials where the three were being held prior to their escape were aware of not only the breakout plan, but possibly about one cell phone that the trio was using. And that cell phone was later traced to use near the place in pcia Sta Fe where they hid out for a while, trying to let things cool down.

    Oh, and the first getaway vehicle was reportedly registered to Schillaci's ex-mother-in-law.

    According to the published material, the bad guys were heading for northwest Argentina by way of Sta Fe province and it seems as though they had contacts there that let them stay in an abandoned house, where they spent the first week of January, while a neighbour brought them food. That neighbour seems to have had a former relationship with Schillaci.

    When the last of the three were apprehended they were not carrying their weapons but confessed to where they had left them, about half a km away. There the police found their FMK3 Argentine military submachine gun, and a Colt 9mm submachine gun.

    Sean Penn reportedly expressed his regrets that he was not able to interview the three while they were on the loose.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @77 “Sean Penn reportedly expressed his regrets that he was not able to interview the three while they were on the loose.” Hahahaha.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @78 - Quite pleased that I was able to introduce a bit of acceptable good humour into all of this. Very welcome.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @79 Twas a good joke.

    The whole 'Sean Penn is CIA and that is why he has been costing up to South American dictators' is fodder for a film script.

    The other good laugh story, if it is true, is that Amado Boudou had a nightclub/bar in Banco Nacion. Did he need to lock in the audience to hear him play guitar? It just gets stranger by the minute.

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @80 - Here is the story -- believe it or don't. Along with some other claims of Kirchnerist abuses

    http://www.clarin.com/politica/Hallazgo-Banco-Nacion-Boudou-despacho_0_1504050002.html

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I read it over at Bubblear.com. They tend to be pretty neutral/amusing in reporting. That is, they are happy to point out the shortcomings of all political parties but still retain a love of Argentina.

    Do you believe it?

    Jan 17th, 2016 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CapiTrollism_is_back!!

    @75

    Live under the control of of drug lords, really? You seem to be a bit confused about your geography. Go to a Mexican, USA American, Venezuelan, Brazilian, or Colombian forum. Those countries do have many cities under the control of narcos.

    I'm am living under narco control? Well if you want to believe your fairies... Sure Rosario has a problem but if you don't go to the bad areas then nothing will happen to you. and still and as bad as Chicago has gotten.

    Tell me if you Americans are so smart about fixing this problem how come things just keep getting worse with drug gangs in several of your cities?

    Jan 18th, 2016 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    82 ElaineB

    Hilarious article!

    I believe, I believe!!

    Jan 18th, 2016 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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