MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, May 23rd 2017 - 06:58 UTC

Argentina purchased several refurbished Mirages and engines for Pucaras

Friday, May 19th 2017 - 06:42 UTC
Full article 24 comments

Argentine reportedly has agreed to purchase several refurbishedDassault-Breguet Super Étendard fighter bombers originally from the French navy. Apparently the Mirages are similar to those Argentine used during the Falklands conflict in 1982 and will be incorporated to the Air Force, as part of an Argentine re-equipment of its military forces. Read full article

Comments

Disclaimer & comment rules
  • Idlehands

    They should've asked the UK. We could've given them a fantastic deal on some Sopwith Camels.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • mollymauk

    Another muddled mixed up report from Mercopress.
    Super Etendards and Mirages are completely different aircraft (- same manufacturer but that's about all).
    The Kfir however, IS a version of the Mirage, built by the Israelis.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Airfix shares have just taken a massive hit!

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Lucdeluc

    The French are masters at flogging junk.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pete Bog

    “Minister Martinez also acknowledged that the United States has offered to sell Argentina F-16 fighter fighters but the Mirage would better fulfill the needs of the country.
    “The operating cost of the F-16 makes them almost prohibitively expensive,” he said.”

    Exactly what type of Mirage?

    If it is a Mirage 2000, which even the Brazilians have phased out, it would still face a tough battle with an F16.

    If as this article suggests the Mirages are similar to the 3s Argentina had in 1982, then no way are they a match for F16s.

    Or do Mercopress, who describe a Super Etendard as a Mirage (wot???) mean that Super Etendards, now virtually obsolete are being purchased.

    Whatever the case I am glad that Argentina take the defence of their country seriously, without posing a threat to the Falkland Islands.

    Cue the Daily Mail et al telling us again that because the QE carrier isn't ready to sail down, that an invasion and takeover of the Falkland Islands is imminent.............................

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    “Argentine [sic] reportedly has agreed to purchase several [insert name of imaginary purchase item].....” is the sort of thing that we see every few months, followed by quiet and unannounced abandonment of the efforts.

    Argentine governments routinely announce “we're gonna buy all this armament” to appease certain of its frothing mad constituents, even though the proposed purchases rarely seem to have any substance, and are generally focused on the acquisition of technologically antiquarian items that more properly belong in museums.

    Let's review the announcement again, at least how it appeared in La Nación on 17 May: “La administración de Mauricio Macri evalúa la compra de aviones cazabombarderos a Francia. El Ministerio de Defensa recibió un ofrecimiento del gobierno galo para adquirir seis aeronaves Dassault-Breguet Super Etendard. ”

    Ergo, the Macri government “will consider... an offer....” That is not quite the same as “Argentina purchased....” I am not quite certain which of the two is the more skilled in deliberate misrepresentation: the writers for Mercopiss, or the herd of capricious clowns that comprise the Argentine governments.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Capt Rockhopper

    They are simply trying to ensure that they can keep some pilots fast jet qualified and get their ageing Pucara fleet flying again.

    Posted 2 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jo Bloggs

    Excuse the hyperbole but isn't this the 1000th time we've read about Argentine purchases of military equipment? Only to later read that no deal went ahead?

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Correct... Mr. Jo Bloggs...
    And “curiously”..., 999 of the times you read about it..., in here..., at PeguinPress..
    Engrish brainwash..., anyone...?

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jo Bloggs

    We only write the stuff people send us, Think. We don't make it up.

    Honest.

    ;-)

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Marti Llazo

    The reason that we read about this being the 1000th time an argie government fails to live up to its hyped procurement plans is that Mercopiss largely copies (and often badly translates) the rubbish that appears in the argie press.

    Of course, the abysmal condition of the Argentine armed forces due to Kirchnerism is not limited to its total lack of meaningful fighter aircraft, but also its inability to perform basic reliable cargo missions. As the local media here noted “....los anuncios espectaculares del gobierno nacional...” are reflections of the lack of sincerity in aircraft procurement which the present government now shares with the previous governments (although “lack of sincerity” might well be coupled with “lack of seriousness,” “lack of competence,” and “lack of integrity” to characterise the general governance of this country). When I returned to Río Gallegos recently via the local airport, there was a non-operational C130 Hercules at the adjacent military facility. According to the air crew at the civilian terminal, the plane is deadlined for lack of repair parts. It was supposed to be carrying out missions for supply of its squatter base in British Antartica, and carrying foreign “scientific” personnel which Argentina contracts for propaganda purposes. Now at least some of those personnel are trying to get transportation to the chileno air base on King George Island, using chileno Hercules aircraft. The effects of Kirchnerist Peronismo not only failed to make the trains run on time, but served to keep its ancient aircraft bereft of maintenance, and grounded.

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. Jo Bloggs...

    You should be more picky when publishing “stuff people send you”..., then...

    Anyhow... THIS story makes some sense...

    I believe our Armed Farces have somewhere eleven (11) Super Etendards (with very few flight hours) mothballed since the late eighties...

    Getting some of the newly outphased French Super Etendard Modernisés and recycle all their good stuff on our nearly new airframes... wouldn't be a stupid idea...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault-Breguet_Super_Étendard

    It's only a question of price...
    If the Frogs give us a good price for removing all that junk from their beautiful Country... we could have a deal...
    I Think about a ton of bloc de foie gras and 25 crates of Armagnac per airframe would be fair...

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Marti Llazo

    ”I believe our Armed Farces have somewhere eleven (11) Super Etendards (with very few flight hours) mothballed since the late eighties...”

    The delusion continues.

    There are zero capable Super Étendards in Argentina. The remaining airframes in the country are worn-out rubbish suitable only for static display. And any modernisation of the proposed (junk) aircraft from France would be severely limited “export” versions since technology control agreements are in place between the UK and France. Like the two dozen or so spectacular announcements from argie governments about rearming, this one is likely just another bread-and-circus show for the legions of Argentina's epileptic armchair warriors.

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeeee.....

    It looks as if the Frogs are really interested of getting rid of their SEM5's...!

    Their are planting the story of this undone deal everywhere...
    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-fighter-plane-terrorized-great-britain-during-the-20762?page=show

    Maybe we Argies should imcrease our asking price with 100 crates of Veuve Clicquot per plane ;-)))

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jo Bloggs

    Geeeee

    One minute Penguin Press is just making this stuff up and the next minute, it's making the news everywhere.

    Which is it?

    This is how it will go from here:
    Argentina will get the full price and most likely won't be able to afford it; then
    if the can afford it, and if there is any UK element in the equipment, the U.K. Will block the sale.

    That's been the pattern 999 times before.

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Geeeeee...

    There is something you are missing..., Jo...
    Those SEM5's have the same marked value as an auld, mutton killing border collie...
    As it happens..., the only Country in the world that could have some use for them is Argentina...

    The French should pay us for removing that trash from Europe...!

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Capt Rockhopper

    The build program for the IA63 was scuppered because Kirchner decreed that no UK components could be used and that would be no problem because only minor components were actually british. Her definition of minor components included such things as, ejection seats, engine fuel management systems and avionics. We did scuppered their purchase of the Gripens from Brazil for good reason. Why would we sell modern military components to a self declared enemy.

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @Marti Llazo

    “France would be severely limited “export” versions since technology control agreements are in place between the UK and France”? FALSE statement. There is no such “agreement” and France would sell Argentina what ever Argentina is willing to pay.

    Buying the retired “SEM” would be a good option to both parties. France will get rid of retired material and Argentina will get the electronic components that are “almost” NATO standards (they were in service until year 2016).

    Not a single LATAM country (with the exceptionla case of Venezuela) has now flying material “2016 up-graded”.

    It would be quite usefull for argentine pilots to get trainning and Argentina will get modern material quite cheap.

    Posted 15 hours ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Marti Llazo

    pgerman, you're lost again. Argentina has attempted for several years to obtain French assistance in making their junk Etendards flyable. Most recently, in 2009 and again in 2014, Argentina attempted to get reconditioned French engines, hydraulics, and other components to get those old airframes back into the air. On those occasions, as on others, the Argentine efforts came to naught. There is clear evidence that the UK (and to some degree the US) persuaded France to avoid any such sales to Argentina. The reconditioned French engines alone, in theory, could have been supplied, but Argentina was unwilling to pay what the French were asking. But other components, particularly newer avionics, contained UK/US technology that was subject to re-export controls and agreements, and France was obligated to respect such binding restrictions. The result was that not one of the trashed Etendards currently in Argentina could be brought back on line, for any price. And the 2017 talks are headed in the same direction. And Argentina is still unable to get anything but third-tier “export” avionics technology.

    Posted 12 hours ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @Marti Llazo

    For your expression (“you're lost again”) you seem to be like “Think”....

    France offered Argentina several times to upgrade the SUE into SEM but the previous government refused to accept any deal for political and economic reasons. France even offered the current government the construction (even with technology transference) of some “light” nay vessels.

    There are no any material restrictions from Germany, France, Italy, Israel, Spain. I'm sorry you are missinformed.

    Posted 12 hours ago - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    You're lost again..., Argie Turnip...

    Posted 11 hours ago - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Marti Llazo

    The proof is in the pudding. Or the lack of it. Argentina is still demonstrably unable to obtain those truly modern upgrades. The nations that contractually receive restricted US and UK aviation technology -- and that includes Israel and France, among others -- are obligated to honour the constraints on re-export. In spite of the enormous amount of noise and wishful thinking in Argentina, it is still and will be for some time yet unwelcome and thus unable to get anything but third-rate junk in the military aviation sector. Unless it goes to the Russians or Chinese, in which case it will be confronted with insanely expensive second-rate junk. Think that is going to change? Send us a postcard when Argentina gets a modern, capable fighter.

    Posted 10 hours ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @ Marti Llazo

    None a single LATAM country (with the exception of Venezuela with its Sukhoi) has modern capable figthers. Brazil has Mirages 2000 and Chile operates F-16 (2nd hand ones) that are not “modern capable fighters” at all. They are all almost retired “museum material”.

    Argentina could get Rafale if it has the will and, mainly, the money. The questions is: What for?.

    In addition, you might like or not. You may ignore reallity (as Think usually does) but the French Government has offered an SUE full up-grade service several times (at leat two times) during the last government. So, most probably, they are offering Argentina a “deal” again. Whether the argentine government will accept it or not is no clear now.

    Having the SUE upgraded to SEM might give the Argentine Navy the chance to operates “OTAN year 2016” planes (at a reasonable price) quite usefull to start a moderate modernization of its capability. No other LATAM country operates “OTAN year 2016” right now.

    In addition, no matter that the UK don't sell defense material to Argentina the German/Argentine Meko ships have british Rolls Roice engines. All of them were delivered to Germany and to Argentina after the war.

    In additon, again, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Israel, Austria offered Argentina defense material several times in the last years. These countries can manufacture quite modern and usefull defense material.

    Posted 4 hours ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    pgerman, you're not reading the words, and you're maintaining the usual argentine delusions. Remember that we are discussing the consistently demonstrated inability of Argentina to obtain modern, capable FIGHTER AIRCRAFT. Your mention of engines in ships is a rather bald non sequitur.

    Your mention of countries that “offered Argentina [unspecified] defense material several times in the last years” is as meaningless as saying that Italy has twice offered air-rifles to Argentina, because neither have anything to do with Argentina's consistently demonstrated inability to acquire modern, capable fighter aircraft. What was mentioned earlier was that the UK, working jointly with the US, has tremendous influence in preventing Argentina's acquisition of modern, capable, Western fighter technology. Remember when Argentina was crowing about being able to get some two dozen Swedish Gripen fighters through a deal with Brazil? The US and UK blew that deal out of the water, because the modern, capable technology in that aircraft, even though it was “Swedish” - was controlled by the UK, however unpleasant that may be. Similar UK influence also prevented Argentina from acquiring other modern, capable fighter aircraft and components. There is a good reason why Argentina has no air force today, and being on the UK's shit-list is a large part of that.

    Your idea that those worn-out, junk Super Étendards are somehow going to provide Argentina with the top French technology of 2016 is simply laughable. The avionics in those planes are over 20 years old, and even then, it's likely that many of the elements of that version would not be allowed to be transferred to Argentina any time soon. The best that Argentina can hope for in this Super Etendard deal is that the worn-out airframes with a stripped-down avionics configuration might last long enough to let a few argentine pilots get some cockpit hours before the maintenance costs exceed the budget allocations once again.

    Posted 3 hours ago - Link - Report abuse 0

Please log in or register (it’s free!) to comment.