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Montevideo, November 15th 2018 - 08:42 UTC

Macri returns from Beijing with US$ 17bn for infrastructure and energy projects

Saturday, May 20th 2017 - 09:02 UTC
Full article 51 comments

Argentine President Mauricio Macri and Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping have signed in Beijing 16 agreements worth at least US$17 billion in areas such as energy and transport infrastructure, confirming the close links between the two countries. Read full article

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  • Think

    TWIMC...

    Article says...:
    “Macri returns from Beijing with US$ 17bn for infrastructure and energy projects”

    I say...:
    Macri returns from Beijing with US$ 17bn for infrastructure and energy projects... already signed years ago by the previous Kirchner administration...

    As a matter of fact..., it was the Chinks condition to go ahead with the old suspended contracts BEFORE any talks about new investments or contracts could be held...

    In short..., The Macri administration just spilled two years on our already existing strategic partnership with China...

    May 20th, 2017 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • falklandlad

    Ah, Mr Think, you sound a touched peeved that Mr Macri is returning with a Beijing treasure chest for all Argentines, or is that just Kirchner sour grapes?

    May 20th, 2017 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Think

    Mr Falklanlad...

    A touch peeved...?

    Monumentally pissed would be a better phrase...!

    As I wrote above...: The Macri administration spilled, for no reason whatsoever, two years of our already existing strategic partnership with China...

    May 20th, 2017 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Capt Rockhopper

    Mmmm Macri further commits Argentina to becoming one of China's Special Administered Regions. If Argentina defaults on these loans it will be messy.

    May 20th, 2017 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • falklandlad

    Mr Think, I was trying to be polite! Are you content that “the package also includes two major hydroelectric dams in the province of Santa Cruz; currently stalled on environment discussions” is really the best for your tourism attractiveness and all those wonderful panoramic views in the province. The Chileans seemed to have recognized the environmental lobby in their neck of the tourist woods and back-tracked a bit.

    May 20th, 2017 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Mr. Falklanlad...

    Don't worry sooo much... Them dams are being constructed in the middle of the Patagonian steppe..., hundreds of miles from those wonderful panoramic views in the province....

    Charles Darwin used to call it a “Dreary Place” (As he did with Malvinas...;-)

    Anyway... I'm not happy 'bout them damn dams... but I'm a minority...

    For your kind info..., I include a link with pictures of the place..., taken by a Paddy that bought some of me horses...
    https://www.railriders.com/interview-leon-mccarron-the-rio-santa-cruz-a-108.html

    May 20th, 2017 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • golfcronie

    And what do you think the Chinks want in return? Cue Think to explain everything.

    May 20th, 2017 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Shitstirrer, did Paddy take them horses as joints or mince?

    May 21st, 2017 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • AustrOllOpithecus

    Falklandlad seems to be confusing Santa Cruz province with some EUian - Britto nation. Santa Cruz is is larger than England, Scotland, the Falklands, and Holland and Belgium put together.

    So a couple of dams somewhere in the middle of nowhere will not ruin any ways. If anything, it may create new tourism hangouts, most dams in desert regions usually do. And you get electricity output and new irrigated land to boot. Win-Win-Win.

    May 21st, 2017 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Enrique Massot

    Think is right. The agreements and indeed the relationship had long been developed by the Kirchners. At the time, the opposition scoffed at doing business with China. However, in view of the reluctance of western countries to come up with a “rain of investments” Macri has none decided the Chinese are not so bad after all.

    May 21st, 2017 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • AustrOllOpithecus

    It's not reluctance. You can't invest what you don't have. The northern countries already are Autonomous zones of China.

    May 22nd, 2017 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    @Enrique Massot


    Nobody questioned the economic, and investing, agreements between Argentina and China signed by CFK. We were against the cession of sovereignty (for 50 years) over a piece of land in Patagonia to allow China to use it as its will. We don't want a foreign military base in argentine soil.

    I would prefer agreements with democratic countries, such as europeans and USA, something that you don't (since you are ideologically against western democratic countries) but any economic cooperation is wellcome. We need more of them !!!

    May 22nd, 2017 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Argie Turnip just above says...:
    《“Nobody questioned the economic, and investing, agreements between Argentina and China signed by CFK. ”》

    I say...:
    Luckily..., we..., Thinking Argentineans..., have memory...:
    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1846814-macri-advierte-que-podria-vetar-los-contratos-de-cristina-con-china-y-rusia

    Others..., like Pgerman are Turnips...

    May 22nd, 2017 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • pgerman

    @Think

    I'm not surprise at all that you have never reed (in full) the article you linked. Anyway I don't care Macri's opinion, he is not my “leader”, he is not my “inspiration”, I have never questioned any aconomic cooperation agreement..

    In addition, I'm not surprise by the fact that any person that thinks differently from you is a “turnip”, a stupid, a cipayo, you, as any other authoritarian person, believe that you are “morally and intelectually superior”...you even dared to discuss with me about Freemasonry ....

    May 22nd, 2017 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Argie Turnip just above

    Then you SHOULDN'T write...:
    “Nobody questioned the economic, and investing, agreements between Argentina and China signed by CFK. ”》

    Instead you SHOULD write...:
    I didn't questioned the economic, and investing, agreements between Argentina and China signed by CFK. “

    Gramática de primero inferior..., pebete...
    Capisce...?

    As the Svenska Brödre say...
    ”Genom Töcknen Mot Ljuset”
    May the Great Architect of the Universe illuminate you...

    May 22nd, 2017 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    Think

    Your ignorance is proportional to your fascist arrogance...in the meanwhile, I notice that you avoided the diuscussion of the acceptance of a foreign, Chinese, base in Patagonia......

    May 22nd, 2017 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Argie Turnip just above...

    - Which foreign Deep Space Tracking Station in Patagonia is bothering you most... (and why?)

    1) The European Space Agency Deep Space Station at La Batra, Neuquen with its 35 meters diameter Cassegrain Parabolic Antenna...?
    https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/imagerainbow.jpg

    Or

    2) The Chinese Space Agency Deep Space Station at Bajada del Agrio, Neuquen with its 35 meter diameter Cassegrain Parabolic Antenna...?
    www.neuqueninforma.gob.ar/ratifican-el-uso-pacifico-de-la-estacion-espacial-china/

    May 22nd, 2017 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    Think.

    Which foreign Deep Space Tracking Station in Patagonia is bothering you most... (and why?)”

    Chinese base bothers all of us much more. For two basic reasons:

    1) Europe is argentina people's cultural background. Europe is where our immigrant grandparents came from and the place where we are still visit to learn and marvel at their culture.

    2) Europe is a continent of democracies (with the exception of Turkey), freedom, tolerance and rigths.

    I visited China several times working. It is a great place to visit but it is not our culture. In addition, it is not a democracy at all.

    Quite clear.

    May 23rd, 2017 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Argie Turnip just above...

    What a Turnipy Eurocentric wiew of one of the World's Craddles of Civilization...!

    In a time when ALL our European ancestors were climbing trees..., naked..., chasing some squirrels to eat...
    ... the Chinks were..., dressed in silk robes..., eating Peking roasted duck & steamed Jasmin rice with their laquered chopsticks from finely decorated porcelain plates ....

    Today...., the Chinks are at the ABSOLUTE TOP in the field of Deep Space Exploration...
    A true honour to have them down here..., collaborating with our scientists...
    Or do the Europeans or the Americans have ANYTHING like this...?...:
    https://i1.wp.com/china-underground.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Worlds-Largest-Radio-Telescope_003.jpg?w=896&ssl=1

    To finish...
    Just the idea that a giant stationary 35 meter in diameter parabolic antenna in the Patagonian steppe..., that easily could be disabled with a couple of well placed rifle shots..., should have any military use or significance whatsoever..., shows your level of Turnipidity...

    You shame the Masonic Brotherhood..., bro'...
    Educate yourself...

    May 23rd, 2017 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    “Just the idea that a giant stationary 35 meter in diameter parabolic antenna in the Patagonian steppe..., that easily could be disabled with a couple of well placed rifle shots..., should have any military use or significance whatsoever..., shows your level of Turnipidity”...

    It is quite clear that your arrogance is born in your ignorance and superiority sense of all the fascists.

    A chinese antenna might be attacked and destroyed whithout any doubt but, doing this, means that China would be “at war” and an attacks could be done in argentine soil. It is also a proff of political alliance with a non democratic country. Usually peronists, who were allies of Francisco franco, Pinochet, Stroessnerr, Chavez, Maduro, etc, don't care much about “democratic” values. We all know this.

    In additon, don't keep writting about freemasonry. Your are making the fool.

    You write about everything showing off, in a very argentine arrogant way, that you are “an expert” of “every thing”. Actually it is a prove of an inferiority complex and your real ignorance.

    May 23rd, 2017 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    TWIMC

    Evidently..., the truth does feel as arrogance to an Argie Turnip that writes such turnipy things as...:
    - “There was no genocide of the Patagonian Indigenous People”...!?!“
    Or
    - ”The Patagonian indians were not Argentineans..., they were Chileans“ ...!?!
    Or
    - ”The Peronists have hold hegemonic power during the last 70 years of Argentinean history“...!?!
    Or..., his latest pearl...
    - ”Nobody questioned the economic and investing agreements between Argentina and China signed by CFK...!?!

    Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
    If that's the level of brothers the masonry produces today..., then...
    I praise mesef lucky to be the first generation (on me fathers side...;-) in the last quincentennium to be free of that darn Masonic virus...

    May 23rd, 2017 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    The more you write the worse...

    You keep on writing about everything showing off, in a very argentine arrogant way, that you are “an expert” of “every thing”.

    Actually it is a prove of an inferiority complex, authoritarian attitude and your real ignorance !!!.

    May 23rd, 2017 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    The European Space Agency doesn't have their own army to staff and run their Deep Space Tracking Station, they are a civilian agency.

    And China has been civilised for thousands of years but it has never been democratic, or inclined to respect individual rights. Besides, what they were doing back then is not too relevant; what they are doing now is trying to become a superpower, and gain as much power and influence (and territory) as possible.

    By the way, the parabolic antenna is not stationary, and could, for example, be pointed at geostationary satellites in the region to monitor or even interfere with their communications.

    May 23rd, 2017 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr.DemonTree...

    1) Argentina..., together with about 100 other Countries..., including the EU, USA and CHINA..., is a signatary of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty that specifically regulates this kind of installations...

    2) Are you..., Engrishman..., trying to tell me that..., because China has a different political system..., we Argies are supposed not to make business or positively engage with them?
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-china-to-the-uk-economy-/sty-china.html

    3) By the way..., the parabolic antenna in question is “ absolutely stationary” in the sense that it would be a tad difficult for the Chinks to move its 700 tons structure round across the Patagonian steppe to hide it from an eventual controll or attack...

    May 23rd, 2017 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • pgerman

    @Think

    I know that peronists have always preferred countries with “different political system” to western democracies. That's why J.D. Peron decorated democrats such as Francisco Franco, Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroessnerr, Nicolae Caucescu, Batista, etc

    Later CFK decorated and made alliances with Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro.....

    But we (at this point I believe that I understood “DemonTree”'s words) are saying that “because China has a different political system” (basically it is not a democracy and doesn't respect HHRR) Argentina must promote relationships, and bonds, with countries with other “systems” (basically democracies).


    In addition, I go back to the issue that Europe is argentine's people cultural background so the most sensible thing is to promote relatiuonships with Europe since we share common values. Mainly in time that the civilization clash is causing plenty of trouble in the World. We must have quite clear which “our side” is.

    I didn't know that, among other's such as defense, freemasonry, economy, etc, you are also a expert in space technology....

    May 24th, 2017 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    TWIMC

    Yet another “Pearl” from Argie Turnip Pgerman...:
    《 “J.D. Peron decorated democrats such as Francisco Franco...”》

    O'Really.........., I say...
    When...?

    May 24th, 2017 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • pgerman

    I can't believe that you don't know that Francisco Franco, Caudillo de España por la voluntad de Dios, was J. D. Peron ally....really? I understood that you are an “expert” of everything about all the topics...

    J.D. Peron decorated other “democrats” such as Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroessnerr, Nicolae Caucescu and Batista. Later CFK decorated and made alliances with Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro.....


    Take charge of the actions of your beloved “democratic” leader !!!

    May 24th, 2017 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    TWIMC

    I repeat and clarify for the Turnips...

    Yet another “Pearl” from Argie Turnip Pgerman...:
    《 “J.D. Peron D E C O R A T E D democrats such as Francisco Franco...”》

    O'Really.........., I say...
    When did J.D. Peron D E C O R A T E Francisco Franco...?
    Where did J.D. Peron D E C O R A T E Francisco Franco...?
    What did J.D. Peron D E C O R A T E Francisco Franco with..?

    May 24th, 2017 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • pgerman

    J. D. Peron not only decorated Gral. Francisco Franco, Caudillo de España por la Voluntad de Dios, he also decorated other “democrats” such as Gral. Augusto Pinochet, Gral. Alfredo Stroessnerr, Nicolae Caucescu and Batista. Later CFK decorated, and made alliances, with Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro.

    Enjoy life....

    May 24th, 2017 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Argie Turnip just above...
    J. D. Peron NEVER decorated Gral. Francisco Franco.

    May the Great Architect of the Universe shed some Light on You...
    You certainly need some...

    May 24th, 2017 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    1. China also helped to negotiate another treaty, UNCLOS, and ratified it in 1996. It is currently busy building artificial islands in the South China Sea in an effort to get round it, and ignoring international court judgements in favour of other countries. What makes you think they have any more interest in sticking to the Outer Space Treaty, and what is Argentina going to do about it if they don't?

    2. No, I'm not saying you shouldn't make business or positively engage with them. I'm saying there is a difference between letting the ESA, a multination civilian agency, build a tracking station, and letting a superpower dictatorship build a similar station that will be run and staffed entirely by their military. 

    And what the UK does is irrelevant to the argument. I don't agree with everything my government is doing either.

    3. Why would they need to move the antenna somewhere else? They can spy on satellite communications perfectly well where they are, and your government is certainly not dumb enough to attack China.

    May 24th, 2017 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Lad..., You are talking with an auld memorious Argie here...

    As memory serves me..., I do remember that me Country is still having a looong standing territorial dispute with a certain Anglo-European far-away Country about some 12,000,000.- square kms. In the South Atlantic...

    As memory serves me..., I clearly remember me Country losing a generation of their best & brightest on the altar of a certain Anglo-American far-away Country's World Domination Scheme...

    As memory serves me..., I don't remember me Country ever having any problem with the far-away Chinks...

    Memory..., one of the worst enemies of turnipidity...

    May 24th, 2017 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • pgerman

    @Think

    Don't worry. Don't feel bad about these historical fatcs. Forget about them !!


    Governments of Gral. Francisco Franco, Gral. Augusto Pinochet, Gral. Alfredo Stroessnerr, Nicolae Caucescu, Batista, Cnel. Hugo Chavez and Lorry Driver Nicolas Maduro were not dictatorships.......they were just “different political systems”.

    May 24th, 2017 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    The UK was a superpower in the past, and the US is one currently. China is only just beginning to be powerful enough to create problems for Argentina if they so wish, although they have been able to cause problems for their own neighbours for much longer. (You've mentioned Tibet in the other posts.)

    The whole point of remembering the past is so you can avoid mistakes in the future.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this though:

    “As memory serves me..., I clearly remember me Country losing a generation of their best & brightest on the altar of a certain Anglo-American far-away Country's World Domination Scheme...”

    May 24th, 2017 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    The whole point of remembering the past is so you can avoid mistakes in the future.... indeed...!

    Thats why Argentina is cooperating on completely peaceful and demilitarized scientific Deep Space Exploration Projects with the Chinks and the EUropeans..., instead of allowing the Yanks to open military bases in our Country as they have done eight times in Colombia..., trice in Peru..., twice in Paraguay and once in Chile in the past few years...

    May 24th, 2017 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Oh I agree with that; you have no reason to want US military bases in Argentina, any more than Chinese or Russian ones.

    But you should remember that you haven't had any problems with those countries yet only because they are far away and there has been no reason to have any. China is investing and building infrastructure in countries around the world and thereby increasing their influence. If Argentina becomes important to China then you may well have problems with them in future, and you can ask their neighbours how well that might go. IMO the USA is the lesser evil.

    May 25th, 2017 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DeonTree

    You say...:
    “IMO the USA is the lesser evil.”

    I say...:
    Taking in consideration your recent history..., that's a logical & understandable opinion from an Engrishman..., in Engeland 2017...

    Taking in consideration our recent history..., that's NOT a logical nor understandable option for a South American ..., in South America 2017...

    May 25th, 2017 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    I thought you might say that. I know the Latin American countries have suffered a lot from the USA's interference - with all the coups, banana wars, drug wars etc - and it's obvious the USA considers the whole western hemisphere to be in its 'sphere of influence'.

    But I think Russia and China have done and are doing worse to their own neighbours, and they also treat their own citizens very badly, while their political systems do not give much prospect for improvement. So if one of the three had to rule the world, I would rather it's the USA.

    However, as long as the USA remains the most powerful country, it probably does make more sense for you to deal with Russia or China, since they are currently limited in what they can do to you. But how long will this be true?

    May 26th, 2017 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    The fanatic peronists don’t cease to amaze me in their eagerness to build a “parallel reality” or to build a “fake past”. Some, only some since there are lots of examples, of them have been:

    1) The “missing people due to State Terrorism were 30,000 people” no matter that the sum of the official complaints of the relatives of the missing people is 8,000 people.
    2) “Inflation during the last three/four years of CFK was never more higher than 10%”
    3) “Dollar clamp never existed”
    4) “CFK presidency has reduced poverty more than any other government in argentine history” but one of three argentines were poor on December 10, 2015 that was the day when CFK left power.

    Now “Think” wrote “J. D. Peron has never decorated Francisco Franco” ... they, as any fanatic, always use the Nazi Goebles’ resource of “lie, lie that something false would remain”

    May 26th, 2017 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @pgerman
    If it's true that Peron decorated Franco then you should be able to tell us the year and what he gave him, or find a link saying so. Can you?

    All I can find is that Franco gave Eva Peron the Order of Isabella the Catholic in 1947, which is not at all the same thing.

    May 26th, 2017 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ;-)

    May 26th, 2017 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @DewmonTree

    We are all adults. Aren't we?

    J.D. Peron might have decorated Churchill, or Charles De Gaulle, and made political alliances with their countries but he preferred to decorate Francisco Franco, and be his political allied. J D Peron migh have choose true demopcrats be he preferred dictatorships. This gives you a clear idea about the true nature of perosnism.

    Adding solid information means nothing to “Think” and other peronists. They will find the way to run away from historical facts and deny them.

    In addition, note that “Think” made no comments about the frienship relationships of J. D. Peron with Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroessnerr, Nicolae Caucesce or Batista....

    Anyway don't worry as “Think” wrote these were just “diferent political systems” !!!

    May 26th, 2017 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Wiggle..., wiggle..., wiggle...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-SomEwQ6L_s

    May 26th, 2017 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @pgerman
    J. D. Peron might have decorated Franco, since Franco sheltered him during his exile from Argentina, but as far as I can find out, he didn't. Adding solid information may mean nothing to Think, but it would make your argument a lot more convincing to me. If you are going to accuse the Peronists of building a fake past you should really stick to the truth yourself.

    As for Peron's friends and allies, I think they do say a lot about him, especially since he had allies on both the right and left with quite different beliefs.

    May 26th, 2017 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @Demon Tree

    J. D. Peron was ruling the country during vital international times when the “free world”, that resulted from II WW, started the organization of international commerce and the current international order.

    Argentina could have been a good partner of Europe and USA, all of them democracies, since our country was in relative good situation but J. D. Peron preferred having “other political system” allies such as F. Franco's Spain and other Third World countries that were not democracies. Instead of promoting good relationships with european democracies he gave protection to lots of German criminals of war.

    J. D. Peron used to say that liberal, and repbublican, democracies were just “imperial powers”

    J. D. Peron, and his party, was (and it stil is) quite reluctant to real democracies but has always had very friendly relationships with Third World Countries' dictatorships. Even CFK preferred Venezuela, Angola, Iran, China, Bolivia to Europe and USA.

    I would do good bussines with all the countries but I would have close bonds with western democracies since this is from where argentina people come from and our country is also a “western democracy”.

    The irony is that, for peronists, those who prefer western democracias are consider cipayos and authoritarian people for them (they call us “gorilas”) .

    May 26th, 2017 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Firstly...:
    As you can read just above..., you'll never get a Tulip from a Turnip..


    Secondly...:
    As for any COUNTRY LEADER's friends and allies..., I think they do NOT say a lot about him/her, especially since he/her (if any good) HAS to have friends and allies on both the right and left with quite different beliefs.

    Off the top of my head..., I remember names as Mussolini.., Ceauşescu..., Mugabe... et al...as beinng Knights of Some Sort of Grand British Cross i a Bathroom or something... ;-)

    And who can forget this bestis picture...?
    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2012/04/02/20/Pg-26-sinking-reu.jpg

    May 26th, 2017 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    The fact that Margaret Thatcher was a cretin does not mean that J. D. Peron was not a cretin.
    You can find pictures of both, Peron and Pinochet, smiling and Pinochet being decorated.

    Until now, “Think” never denied that J. D. Peron decorated Augusto Pinochet. Another common “peronist” speech resource, who usually considered that they are morally superior to the “non-peronists”, is that in the face of an evidence that they cannot deny they ran away saying that “others have also done this !!!!”...

    So, from “being morally superior” to “we are all the same”

    I do not remember ever having seen a picture of Illia, Alfonsin, De la Rua (all former non-peronist argentina presidents) or even Mauricio Macri with Augusto Pinochet (or any other dictator of the same kind).

    May 26th, 2017 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Oh, so you don't think Blair's good relationship with Bush says something about him? Perhaps if they had no been such great friends we would not have been dragged into a pointless war.

    And you don't think Trump's preference for Putin over Merkel, or his liking for Nigel Farage (and even proposing him as ambassador) says something about him?

    In general leaders have a choice of which direction to take their country, and the allies they choose to court show what it is. For example, Argentina took part in the Gulf War under Menem; I really can't imagine CFK doing that.

    @pgerman
    “Until now, “Think” never denied that J. D. Peron decorated Augusto Pinochet.”

    I suspect this is because it's actually true.

    Also, at the top of this article there is a picture of Macri with Xi Jinping, who is a dictator. But he is also the ruler of a powerful country with a huge economy, so all this really says about Macri is that he wants money for Argentina and can't get it anywhere else.

    May 26th, 2017 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWRgAL0u0Hg

                   ;-)))

    May 26th, 2017 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @DemonTree

    I must admite that you are right. Macri's picture with the chinese leader must be the first. In his defense we can say that Xi Jinping, due to the size of the chinese economy, is received by the preseidents of all the Free Wolrd. But you are right.

    @Voice

    I love to be a “gorila”...I love to be a “cipayo”....at least nobody will confuse me with a fascist !!

    May 27th, 2017 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @pgerman
    Think is right that leaders must work with all kinds of countries, which means meeting dictators and being polite to them, and even forming alliances with them if necessary.

    This is a famous picture:

    http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/Yalta-Conference-Hero-AB.jpeg

    But Stalin was a dictator, and there wasn't so much difference between him and Hitler. Still, it was necessary to ally with him to win the war.

    And currently the US and UK are allied with Saudi Arabia, which is a dictatorship and a pretty unpleasant one. But we are also allies or friendly with most of the democracies in the world.

    As I said, I think you can tell something about a leader by the alliances they make and who they are friendly with personally, but just knowing that they met someone or even gave them an award is not enough.

    May 27th, 2017 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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