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Montevideo, December 15th 2017 - 00:38 UTC

Cristina Kirchner/Macri dispute Buenos Aires province Senate seat

Monday, August 7th 2017 - 06:27 UTC
Full article 25 comments

With less than a week to the Argentine primaries next Sunday to chose candidates for the October midterm election, the dispute in the province of Buenos Aires which concentrates 35% of the national electorate is particularly interesting as decisive since ex president Cristina Fernandez has good chances of winning the Senate bench. Read full article

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  • Brit Bob

    The queen of rhetoric.

    Didn't Cristina call the Falkland Islanders ''squatters'' and doubted that they had ''rights'' ?

    Falklands – Usurpation & UN Resolutions (single page): https://www.academia.edu/21721198/Falklands_1833_Usurpation_and_UN_Resolutions

    Oooops!

    Aug 07th, 2017 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Does the general Argentine voting public not have even half a brain cell between them?

    Aug 07th, 2017 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Marti Llazo

    CFK doesn't even live in Bs As province but is running for senator there. She can't even vote for herself. Didn't the americans have a term for that? Carpetbagger?

    Aug 07th, 2017 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    So the polls are very close and recent history has shown (US election, Brexit vote, UK election etc.) that when this is the case the result can confound the polls. Also, recent elections (Europe, UK) seem to show that the public opinion pendulum is swinging back from the extreme point it had reached so if a similar thing is happening in Argentina then it may help Macri.

    I'm not going to predict the result but I will predict this: If CFK loses she will have one big hissy fit!

    Aug 07th, 2017 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Enrique Massot

    The four mediocre comments above illustrate a deep lack of understanding of Argentine politics--hey, even a deep understanding of about anything.

    Brit Bob: The Malvinas is not an issue in this election.
    Islander1: The general Argentina public, contrary to your belief, does have a pretty good understanding of the work that Cristina did as president and that of Macri's. They experience it in their everyday lives.
    Martillazo: Who cares where Cristina lives? She was the president of all the Argentines, she is legit, and she is getting the votes.
    Zaphod: Wow. I am impressed.

    Get ready, people.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Caledon

    Vote early.Vote often.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Reekie characteristically fails to understand the fundamentals of representative democracy as it is observed in the civilised nations, that regional senators and deputies are to be selected from the regions they are to represent. That the argentine way is to support the carpetbaggers reminds us of its fundamentally flawed nature, and that the argie congress is really little more than a safe place for its worst criminals to avoid the arrest, prosecution, and prison that they deserve.

    Speaking of its worst criminals, we see that not only is CFK's accountant now in jail, but Mono Minnicelli, the brother-in-law of Julio de Vido, is in custody. Minnicelli has been on the most-wanted list here for some time and is wanted on a number of charges (he's a Kirchnerist, after all). De Vido, we recall, is another Kirchnerist currently hiding from prosecution in the argie congress. And it was the criminal Kirchner bloc that voted to keep the congress as just that sort of stay-out-of-jail haven. And you wonder why no-one has any respect for this toy country, and why Kirchnerism has become synonymous with criminality.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    “Reekie characteristically fails to understand the fundamentals of representative democracy as it is observed in the civilised nations”

    I guess the UK is not one of the civilised nations then, since candidates for MP are selected according to how safe the seat is, and are generally not from the area they represent.

    @Zaphod
    I'm not sure the public opinion pendulum in South America is much related to the one in Europe and the US. For a start, voting for left-wing and populist candidates seems to be the default state. It will be interesting to see how accurate the polls are though.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    DT,

    “I'm not sure the public opinion pendulum in South America is much related to the one in Europe and the US.”

    I agree, but it is a factor that makes things less predictable.

    “It will be interesting to see how accurate the polls are though.”

    Indeed. Will CFK get elected? Will Macri gain more support?

    If Yes Yes, it will simply mean that she avoids jail for a bit longer but Macri will be able to continue with his reforms with a some reduction in interference. On her track record, I don't expect that she will achieve much that benefits her constituents and will probably try to steal from them so if that happens they'll only have themselves to blame.

    If No Yes, then Kirchnerism has continued its downward spiral to a minority group with less power and influence.

    If No No, then there will probably be little effect.

    If Yes No, this will be the worst result for Macri but it is possibly the least likely scenario.

    All the pressure will be on CFK. She has to win to stay out of jail and keep her political career alive.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Enrique Massot

    @ZZZ...B

    How do you know Cristina “avoids jail” by being elected? Have you M. Macri's personal telephone number?

    You are right in that Cristina's election does not have much of an effect on Macri's planned “reforms.” After all, she will just be a senator for the province of Buenos Aires. So why is the government panicking seeing the opinion polls?

    Because Cristina's election will be a slap in the face of Mauricio Macri and a popular thumbs-down on his team of CEOs, which he had described as “the best team of the last 50 years.”

    ”(Cristina) has to win to...keep her political career alive.”

    We'll see it in 2019!

    But don't worry. Whatever happens, Cristina has already earned a well-deserved place in Argentine history. And no, it's not Clarin who gets to write that history.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Reeko,

    “How do you know Cristina “avoids jail” by being elected?”

    Do you mean she wouldn't be immune if elected?

    “Have you M. Macri's personal telephone number?”

    No, but my wife probably does!

    “Because Cristina's election will be a slap in the face of Mauricio Macri...”

    Not really. Being elected in a stronghold of your own support doesn't reflect on wider public opinion.

    “But don't worry.”

    I'm not worried.

    “Whatever happens, Cristina has already earned a well-deserved place in Argentine history.”

    That isn't necessarily a good thing.

    Aug 08th, 2017 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    @ZB
    She won't necessarily go to jail if she's not elected. It depends if they find any convincing evidence and how corrupt or not the judges are.

    Not being in Argentina, I don't know how meaningful her election would be. I gather that Macri's party does not have a majority now so it would be pretty difficult for him if he loses support? Her election might rattle the still shy foreign investors too.

    Thinking about your pendulum, voting for Macri represented a swing away from the norm for Argentina, so going back to normal may actually help CFK. We'll have to wait and see.

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Reekie, ever playing the fool: “How do you know Cristina “avoids jail” by being elected?”

    Let's explain this to reekie in cristiano:

    “....Cristina -como cualquier otro candidato- tendrá inmunidades hasta que cese su mandato, si es que resulta electa. Cristina podrá ser citada, indagada, continuará transitando los tribunales y la Justicia seguirá investigándola. Pero no podrá ser arrestada. Es decir, Cristina tendrá inmunidad de arresto...”

    In economical Engrish, CFK gets immunity from arrest if she gets elected.

    And arrest is what is needed in order for her to go to jail.

    Do you understand now, reekie? How about if I write more slowly?

    CFK's place in history is pretty well reflected by the following poll which asked of the three choices below, whose government was the most corrupt:

    “¿Cuál fue el gobierno más corrupto de la historia?”. Las opciones eran tres: Carlos Menem, Néstor Kirchner y Cristina Fernández. El resultado final, luego de 1.731 votos es el siguiente: Carlos Menem 5%, Néstor Kirchner 9% y Cristina Fernández 86%.”

    I bet reekie is so proud.

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Martillazo is now lecturing us on immunity etc.

    Marti: You are what the French call a pisse-froid. You will never understand a true politician as Cristina. She does not care about being imprisoned by the current regime. She cares about serving her country and helping her people. So all your legalese is irrelevant, as it is your poll, conducted by a reporter on his personal Twitter account.

    I invite curious readers to check Marti's quality sources from where he constructs his in-depth knowledge of politics.

    http://periodicotribuna.com.ar/17243-cual-fue-el-gobierno-mas-corrupto-de-la-historia.html

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • gordo1

    Enrique Massot

    Do you really expect the discerning readership here in Mercopress to believe your comments such as “a true politician as Cristina” and “she cares about serving her country and helping her people”? Or are your comments just “tongue in cheek”?

    I ask these questions because there is just no evidence which confirms your assertions!

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Marti Llazo

    That there is a mass of people such as reekie - who cannot distinguish between a decent public servant and a self-serving thief, and who blindly support the latter -- is prima facie evidence of the hopelessness of the argentine condition.

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    DT,

    “She won't necessarily go to jail if she's not elected. It depends if they find any convincing evidence and how corrupt or not the judges are.”

    Indeed.

    Wasn't Menem prevented for running for office because he was under investigation at the time? Why didn't that same rule apply to CFK?

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I don't think Menem was prevented from running, considering that he is a senator now.

    I doubt they would pass such a law because it would be too easy to abuse; convicting someone requires evidence, but it only takes one crooked judge to declare the opposition candidate is under investigation and thus ineligible to run.

    Aug 09th, 2017 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    @ML

    “...prima facie evidence of the hopelessness of the argentine condition.”

    Here's Marti again, showing off in Latin in order to bash Argentines each time facts contradict his biased, distorted vision.

    If the Sunday election results favour the Macri administration, he'll come down bashing Cristina Fernandez and her “unsuccessful attempts” to regain a foot in Argentine politics.

    However, if Cristina gets a wheelbarrow of votes, then he'll come crying about how “hopeless” Argentine electors are.

    Don't ever let stupid facts get on the way or your twisted reasoning, Marti.

    Aug 11th, 2017 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • NativeAngeleno

    The Macristas are quiet and hopeful while support for the UC is adamantly against everything Macri. The enthusiasm for vengeance tips the scales from a supposedly close election to an easy early call Sunday for Fernandez and the beginning of the end for Macri. There will be no reform package for Macri to push once the electorate finishes wiping the floor with him in October. I base this conclusion speaking with a lot of angry Argentine voters over the last two months. Despite the regressive Right's dominance on this site, i will be proven correct within 24 hours of this post and will graciously accept humble apologies from any of those fools doubting the proof to come of my political acumen.

    Aug 12th, 2017 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Reeko,

    “However, if Cristina gets a wheelbarrow of votes...”

    Since she can't be bothered to vote for herself why should anyone else vote for her?

    Wouldn't it be funny if that wheelbarrow of votes was just one vote short of her winning!

    Aug 13th, 2017 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @NativeAngeleno
    Pride goes before a fall...

    Any chance you're going to humbly apologise to all the people whose political acumen you so foolishly doubted?

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NativeAngeleno

    Demonsap, Weren't you the one who called the Argie voter irredeemably dumb? Your apology is acepted.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    If you're talking to me, then no, I never said anything of the sort.

    I don't even support Macri, I just came to laugh at you being proved wrong after your hubris yesterday.

    And I'm sad but not surprised that you are no more able to admit you were wrong or to apologise than the regressive right are.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    N/A,

    “...an easy early call Sunday for Fernandez and the beginning of the end for Macri. There will be no reform package for Macri to push once the electorate finishes wiping the floor with him in October. ...i will be proven correct within 24 hours of this post and will graciously accept humble apologies from any of those fools doubting the proof to come of my political acumen.”

    As DT says, any chance that you will apologise if on Sunday evening CFK is behind (she was) or the electorate wipe the floor with the Peronists (which looks likely)? What if your “political acumen” has got it completely wrong? Surely, nothing less than a humble apology.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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