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Montevideo, October 17th 2017 - 16:58 UTC

Argentina Sunday's primary election: a re-edition of the Cristina Fernandez/Macri dispute

Friday, August 11th 2017 - 08:32 UTC
Full article 15 comments

On Sunday Argentines will be able to choose their candidates to the Senate and Lower House for the midterm October elections, in a process known as PASO, which means open mandatory, simultaneous primaries for all parties, but which are not compulsory for the electoral roll. Read full article

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  • Enrique Massot

    MercoPress would be wise to label this story as “Opinion” because that is what it is--however, it was printed as a news reporting article. This may induce unsuspecting MP readers to error.

    Consider the following:

    “...in suburban areas, Cristina Fernandez is strong and leads, since residents have been hit by loss of jobs, inflation and soaring utility rates...”

    That's factual. What we get next?

    “...as Macri tries to impose some common sense to the chaotic economy inherited.”

    So loss of jobs, inflation and soaring utility rates is Macri's way of “introducing some common sense” to the “chaotic economy inherited?”

    What comes next?

    ”...most economists agree that...the economy is bouncing back strongly...which hopefully (sic) will be a plus despite inflation and the monthly gas and power bills.”

    Come on MP. This is pure B.S. and wishful thinking. Some sectors of the economy such as public works are showing some activity while the fiscal deficit keeps soaring, fed by out-of-control foreign borrowing.

    The fact that Cristina Fernandez is making a strong comeback mainly supported by heavily hit industrial suburban areas around Buenos Aires should be calling for a more sobering analysis on the part of the Macri government...and the independent media.

    Aug 11th, 2017 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    You have a persistent difficulty with facts and opinion, Reeko.

    The MP article provides the news that the election is occurring and some background on who is involved and what the important issues are likely to be...and you respond with a boatload of opinion.

    Your provide your opinion “The fact that Cristina Fernandez is making a strong comeback...” when she has not yet been elected, and even if she is, it may be by a small margin so saying “the fact is” does not turn your opinion into a fact.

    The facts are:
    1. She has not yet been elected.
    2. Opinion polls can get it wrong.
    3. It will only be possible to state that Cristina Fernandez is making a strong comeback if she wins the election and does so by a significant majority.
    4. Unless and until 3 is achieved, your comments are merely wishful thinking.

    Aug 11th, 2017 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Enrique Massot

    @ZB

    “Strong comeback” is not the right term--my bad--I meant to say strong show by Cristina Fernandez. An election may be guessed but results are never sure.

    As for MP article, you may want to defend it, but if you pretend to being able to distinguish fact from opinion you will need to agree that saying “Macri tries to impose some common sense to the chaotic economy inherited” is not only a matter of opinion--it's partisan.

    Further, noting that ”...most economists agree that...the economy is bouncing back strongly“ again is not only wishful thinking but a typical Macrist statement that says ”we know it's bad now but trust us, will be better in a (undetermined) future.”

    I know you do not like Cristina Fernandez and that's your right. But let's be honest. The president who came after her is making citizens to find a new appreciation of her. Nobody gains any credibility by supporting a clown just to prove a point about CFK unless you are happy seeing Argentina slowly descending into abyss.

    Aug 11th, 2017 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • golfcronie

    I don't think that Macri is tying to get one over CFK in fact he is trying to make Argentina solvent again after all the bad management of the Kirchner years.You can't undo 20 years of Kircherism in just a few years.

    Aug 12th, 2017 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Reeko,

    ““Strong comeback” is not the right term--my bad--I meant to say strong show by Cristina Fernandez.”

    Is not being bothered to vote for yourself a “strong show”?

    “As for MP article, you may want to defend it, but if you pretend to being able to distinguish fact from opinion you will need to agree that saying “Macri tries to impose some common sense to the chaotic economy inherited” is not only a matter of opinion--it's partisan. ”

    Was the inherited economy chaotic? Yes, of course it was. Fact.
    Is Macri trying to impose some common sense? Yes, that is what he says he is trying to do. Fact.
    Is Macri achieving this? Opinion, maybe.

    Just because a factual statement disagrees with your beliefs doesn't make it opinion or partisan.

    “But let's be honest. The president who came after her is making citizens to find a new appreciation of her.”

    Really? Do they appreciate that they had to pay to fly newspapers to her every day, but when she needs to spend her own money to fly to vote for herself she won't do it?

    “Nobody gains any credibility by supporting a clown just to prove a point about CFK unless you are happy seeing Argentina slowly descending into abyss.”

    I agree, except you are blind to the fact that Argentina was in free fall into the abyss under CFK.

    Aug 13th, 2017 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @ZB
    I'm inclined to agree with EM. That the economy had problems is a fact, but calling it chaotic is more of a judgement call and gives a stronger impression than merely saying it was in recession. Whether Macri's reforms are common sense or not is an opinion; anyone could say their policies are common sense, including CFK. The easiest thing to determine factually is whether Macri is achieving his stated aims, and so far he is doing poorly. For example, he promised to lower inflation but his policies actually increased it drastically in 2016. It has fallen this year but only to the same level it was under CFK. I presume he plans to lower it further, but now we are back to speculation instead of facts.

    BY the way, what do you mean by not being bothered to vote for herself?

    Aug 13th, 2017 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Reekie,

    From a previous thread:

    {Me] “Losing relevance.”

    [EM] “Really? Ask Mauricio M. I believe you are losing--not relevance but your grasp on reality. But then, what do you know? You don't understand Spanish.”

    The results are now coming in and it appears that I understand much better than you. CFK has not only lost, there has been a historic reversal for Peronism! CFK has indeed lost relevance. Macri has done very well indeed.

    DT,

    Apparently, CFK couldn't be bothered to fly in order to vote for herself. She subsequently tried to blame Aerolineas Argentinos but they confirmed that there were seats available and they had recieved no booking from CFK. So she still can't stop lying.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Marti Llazo

    Neither La Kretina nor her son Pig-Boy Máximo showed their faces at the polling stations here. More evidence of their disdain for democratic institutions.

    Here in Kirchner territory, or what used to be Kirchner territory -- Santa Cruz province -- the Cambiemos candidate is currently way ahead.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tr0lListic_Approach

    She may still scratch it out :)

    But it seems she won't get the need 3-4% margin, of course that means little because she will have 3 months to campaign and get more votes, but Massa's votes would have to break heavily in her favor if this scenario repeats. And that seems unlikely. So she needs to grab some votes from the incumbent.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @ZB
    Don't they have postal voting in Argentina?

    But it does look like Macri's party has done well, and CFK and Bullrich are very close but he's still slightly ahead (don't think counting has finished?).

    There's one thing I don't understand: if these are just the primaries for elections in October then why does everyone treat them as a pre-run of the real elections? Aren't primaries supposed to be about choosing each party's candidate?

    @Tr0lListic_Approach
    Why do you think Massa's voters are unlikely to switch to CFK? Didn't he used to be in her party? You'd think their voters should have more in common than Macri supporters.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod Beeblebrox

    DT,

    You are correct that counting hasn't finished so I may have been premature to say she has lost, but she has certainly lost relevance with all of Macri's gains.

    If this is the Argentine people finally rejecting Peronism then CFK will go down in history as the person who was responsible for killing it.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It's not the real election, they are so closely tied that either could win in October. But it's not the victory that I'm sure CFK was hoping for. I do wonder if she might pick up some votes from Florencio Randazzo now they know it's so close, but things could change between now and October anyway.

    I think the overall results are more important anyway and it's looking good for Macri.

    Aug 14th, 2017 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Enrique Massot

    DT
    This is exactly why the government manipulated the publication of results in Buenos Aires province; the goal was to make a first impression of victory--even if they will have to concede defeat there a few days down the road.
    It's the pettiness of the act that comes to show the true character of the Revolution of Joy...for some.

    Aug 17th, 2017 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    Once again, Kamerad/Komrade Rique, lies through his teeth. The government did not stop the counting. But the tallies of over 1500+ ballot boxes could not be recorded (by the Judiciary,) because of the handling of the boxes, ie the tallies being sealed in the box incorrectly instead being kept separate and accessible, or, more to the point, the tallies having more votes cast than than legal voters listed for the neighborhood.( I have read that one discrepancy was by 619 votes!) All of these boxes now have to be gone through ,counted manually, and the ballots examined for legitimacy. Now far be it from me to say that Kamerad/Komrade Rique is telling the truth, since he is the “José Goebbels” of the Narcokleptocracy here at MercoPress, but let's take him at his word for the sake of argument and agree that the withheld boxes all come from the areas that were under Kirchner's political control,(ones with high levels of violent and narco crime.) What are we to make of this? That the Kirchner machine has tried to pad the numbers with electoral fraud? That she, and Kamerad/Komrade Rique, are anxious that the purported numbers be accepted without scrutiny? I think it's pretty obvious...

    http://www.thebubble.com/who-really-won-last-nights-primaries-fact-we-have-no-idea/

    Aug 17th, 2017 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Accept results “without scrutiny?” Have you lost your marbles, señor Imoyaro?

    What you are doing here is to parrot Macri's message to the letter: “The unrecorded polling stations could not be processed because of 'errors.'”

    It is true that in each election there is a small number of polling station results that are not recorded on election night because of procedural errors. Such percentage usually is around one, two per cent and statistically will never change an election's result.

    Something very different happened in the early hours of Aug. 14.

    Leaving out about five per cent of the total, represented by polling stations coincidentally in areas of well known strong Kirchnerist support. Now, believing and parroting this shows you are willing to take any sort of garbage coming your way.

    Aug 18th, 2017 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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