MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, October 19th 2017 - 16:04 UTC

Obama officials treated “special relationship with Britain as a joke” and liked to refer to Falklands as Malvinas

Thursday, October 12th 2017 - 12:04 UTC
Full article 120 comments

The so-called special relationship between the United States and United Kingdom was regarded as a joke by Obama administration officials, a former government aide has said. Jeremy Shapiro, who served as an adviser in the US state department under Barack Obama, said the relationship was “unrequited.” Read full article

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  • Clyde15

    I am sure that this is true. The US only brought it up when they wanted our backing for another war.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Brit Bob

    The joke is at the expense of the Americans because Argentina has never owned the Falkland Islands.

    Falklands- Never Belonged to Argentina:
    https://www.academia.edu/31111843/Falklands_Never_Belonged_to_Argentina

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    It is a strange situation to mock a country that could hypothetically take out most major cities in the US from hidden locations beneath the waves...
    They fear Russia, China and North Korea and ridicule the country that may well be potentially on their doorstep...
    ...very strange

    “But really we laughed about it behind the scenes.”

    The US surely realises that most of the world laughs openly about their president...?
    Has Mexico started paying for that wall yet...?
    Oh that's right...they told you to FO...
    I really don't think the US is in a position to mock anyone...

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Roger Lorton

    I think we hung his Uncle.... people can be funny about things like that.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    It was pretty damn stupid of them to make it so obvious. Our government may keep sucking up regardless, but they need the support of the people to eg. go to war in Syria. And Obama would have had a lot more credibility when he came and 'advised' us to stay in the EU if they had kept their big mouths shut.

    @Voice
    I wonder how many Trump voters have ever left their country? I don't think they really understand that the rest of the world exists.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    They go bear hunting in Canada...
    It was the only reason for the increase in passport ownership in the US since 9/11.. they are now required to have a passport to cross the border...

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • The Voice

    What a fool, doesnt he appreciate that the so called special relationship has always been a Camel Corps joke. Pearl Harbor was their seminal awakening moment. Then we had to suffer Bush's Redneck Revenge, the Camel Corps warned in advance exactly how that would turn out, but Bush's poodle didnt listen. The USA is like a Blundering Bull in a China shop. They never listen to us especially right now. Not be relied upon.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @RL
    No sure that even had much to do with it. Obama seems to have pissed off the majority of US allies, I think he was just crap at diplomacy and took them for granted.

    @Voice
    So why do so many Republicans believe such utter tosh about the rest of the world? It's like they're not even on the same planet as the rest of us.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Marti Llazo

    The Obama government treated a great deal of its matters as a series of jokes, employed legions of feebleminded jokers, and ultimately saw the fruit of its imprudent foolishness in the election of Mr Trump. The true measure of the US relationship with the UK is not so much the inability of unprofessional political hacks to recall the correct word for geographical locations but in the provision of the AIM9-L Sidewinders that splashed large numbers of Argentine Air Force and Naval Air assets.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    “employed legions of feebleminded jokers”

    Ah well, at least Trump doesn't have this problem. Some of his parade of feeble-minded jokers haven't even lasted the week.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    I would mention that Obama had the White house Churchill statue and painting removed. Trump had them replaced on his first day of office.

    Yes, yes... I recognize my government “officially” recognizes the “Malvinas” fantasy, but it's because the Argentines were bitching all the time and it seemed to be an easy way to shut them up.

    Oct 12th, 2017 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • DemonTree

    “it seemed to be an easy way to shut them up.”

    Did it work?

    Another aspect is why this guy decided to tell a British audience all this. It doesn't cast his own government in a good light, and could tend to decrease support for the US.

    And if they treat one ally this way, why should the others expect anything different?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Chicureo - I've noticed over the years that when Argentina complains about something to the Chilean government and the latter doesn't jump as high as the argies demand, the next thing you know there are legions of argie hooligans setting fire to Chilean lorries crossing the frontier at Monte Aymond and elsewhere, as their gendarmes casually disappear. It's a bullying, criminal nation.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree and Marti: We Chileans have the unfortunate fate of sharing a resentful Peru, demential Bolivia and kleptomaniac Argentina on our border. None of them have been very trustworthy since we sort of “liberated” our northern frontier at the expense of giving away Patagonia. Our only realistic strategy has been a pragmatic approach to speak softly (...now, now, dear Cristina, everyone knows that those nasty Kelpers stole your mythical Malvinas...) while a the same time arming ourselves to the teeth with German tanks, American fighter jets and British ships.
    Meanwhile Argentina has gone from being a nasty military threat 40 years ago to being a bothersome border pest they are today.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Mi nunca bien ponderado hermanito Shileno....
    You forgot perfidous Colombia in your South American Reviling Hitlist...
    What they did against La Roja will never be forgotten by any Shileno de corazón...

    Viva Chile..., mierda.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK: After winnining the Copa America, it's been a major blow to our national pride now being disqualified. Meanwhile Messi...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    Lol. Makes me glad Britain is an island. We only have a border with Ireland and they are alright nowadays.

    (Not that that stopped us fighting wars with most of Europe; I don't *think* we've had one with Sweden.)

    Do you still need all the tanks, fighter jets and ships? Argentina is not much of a threat nowadays is it? What about Peru?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Hermanito Shileno...
    You needed an Argie leader to gain Independence in 1818...
    You needed an Argie leader to gain the Americas Cup in 2015...
    We would luuuuv to send Messi across the mountains to learn you... ;-)
    Maybe we cojld send Messi over to help you

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -6
  • The Voice

    Chicureo, I dont think it helps your relations with Argieland having those little wooden statues of Argies in every tourist shop. You know, ...when you lift them up something unexpected happens. I think the size has been exagerated from what I have heard.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Chicureo

    When I was a young lad at my humble escuela we were taught that the real hero of Chilean independence was a British lord, not a bastard Irishman. However, San Martin never has been given true merit in our “glorious history”. (In naval school, there was speculation that Arturo Prat Chacón was actually shoved by his crew on to the deck of the Huáscar... but then again, it makes a poor example for a national hero...)
    And yes, a good Argentine coach would certainly have been welcomed, but it's doubtful Messi would be affordable.

    We could pay for another fine British Frigate for his fee instead.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    I can see why you're so popular with your neighbours now.

    Also you may both be interested in this map:

    “Who do South Americans joke about the most?” http://i.imgur.com/nOOSpJA.png

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    The Voice: Actually, the wooden Mapuche indio pícaro demonstrates what Argentine men think what they have been blessed by God.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Chicureo... brothercito...
    “When I was a young lad at my humble escuela”... you say...

    The tuition at your humble private Engrish school is (and was ) equivalent to two monthly wages of a Shilean worker..., I say...

    Don't be so modest...

    “Ese es barrio de momios, por ahí por ”Chicureo”
    http://diccionariochileno.cl/term/momio

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Pete Bog

    Well the joke was on Obarmy when we voted to stay out of Syria. Who then proclaimed that France was the USA's top ally.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    THINK: What are you now? An editor to the Diccionario Chileno? My barrio actually has a few socialists I've heard at least...

    DemonTree: In regarding national security, with the exception of Brazil, Chile has probably the best overall defense in Latin America. In truth, we probably no longer need it as Argentina is no longer a threat.
    Bolivia will never be satisfied without a coastline, but will never be able to negotiate either. Peru has a good navy, with an excellent submarine compliment, but their ground forces are poorly supported with outdated equipment and the air force is a mess. It takes about a costly decade to properly rearm and train an overall defense group.
    As I always mention, Argentina has by far the best officers club in Latin America. They're better off not spending on rearming as they really need to stay less aggressive regarding territory...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Pete Bog
    No, no, France is the US's oldest ally. All these other countries are the strongest:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5Ur5E61sKY

    @Chicureo
    I'd prefer Argentina to keep spending on the officers club and avoid rearming, too, so I hope they do that.

    I'm sure I read somewhere that Chile tried to negotiate with Bolivia to give them a corridor to the sea, but Peru vetoed it. Is it true? Bolivia really shouldn't have started that war.

    Wonder why Peru has such a strong navy if its other forces aren't up to much? Who is going to attack it from the sea?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ;-)

    Dd you check the Grange annual fees...?
    6,500,000 CLP...!
    Seis guatones y medio...!
    Pa mandar a un mocoso a la escuela...!

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -4
  • The Voice

    Pssst.. Chile, how about a nice aircraft carrier? You have a nice mooring just off the Liverpool of the Pacific. The Argies are wondering if they should upgrade their canoes?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pytangua

    I find this so refreshing - puncturing holes in our stupid metro elite that still thinks Britain rules the waves and that we have the best army in the world - yes, the one that got kicked out of Helmand. While banging on about the 'special relationship' , at the same time successive UK governments have been arse-lickers to the USA. The worst is our current defense minister, the extremist Michael Fallon, who is clearly in the pay of the CIA. There is no 'special relationship' and the sooner we wake up to that the better.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Voice

    “the worst is our current defense minister”

    We..? Our..?
    I don't think so..

                          DEFENCE !!!

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    The keys to effective defense forces are not only from the quantity and type of armaments, but the training, maintenance and leadership. Peru is basically saddled mostly with outdated and poorly maintained Soviet tanks as well as Mig fighters. On the other hand, their navy is structured around very effective well maintained Italian frigates and German submarines that are recognized as excellent. The quality of their naval officers is superb.

    Chile is able to deploy German Leopard tanks, American F-16 fighters and what I think is the second best Navy in Latin America. Our worse case nightmare scenario has been that Argentina, Bolivia and Peru join in alliance.

    Dearest Think: You forget the over 8 grand (Dollars) you need to cough up just to enroll the mocoso!!! Anyway, there are several private schools that are more expensive and far more exclusive.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    Chicureo tells us: “I would mention that Obama had the White house Churchill statue and painting removed.”

    Good idea not to mention it, because it isn't true.

    Donald Trump definitely won't be returning the bust to the White House. Why? Because it's still there.

    Churchill stayed in the White House, he was moved to the second floor and displayed outside the door of the Treaty room in the President's private residence.

    What Obama had to say about the whole thing: “Right outside the door of the Treaty Room, so that I see it every day - including on weekends when I'm going into that office to watch a basketball game - the primary image I see is a bust of Winston Churchill ... I love the guy.”

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Lynn

    If you stop Americans on the street and start referring to “the special relationship” they will have no idea of what you are talking about. This concept is some sort of Brit fantasy.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    Do Soviet tanks and planes automatically come with poor training and leadership? I guess I don't understand why Peru spent more on their navy or just has better training there.

    Did you go to that school Think linked?

    @Lynn
    It mostly exists in the imagination of British tabloid journalists, but lets face it, most Americans have little idea about anything outside their borders. These are the same people who when asked where North Korea is can't even get the right continent:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ugJZhL-cbc

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    You ask Chicureo...:
    “Did you go to that school Think linked?”

    I say...:
    Firstly...,: I didn't link to no posh British School in Santiago
    Secondly...: Of course my hermanito Shkleno went to that School I didn't link to...
    Thirdly...: Holy Mol(l)y...,you should have learned by now that my info is, more than often, quite correct...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    That school you mentioned then.

    Didn't mean to imply you were lying, but you didn't actually say he went there, you know. And when people have known each other a long time and have all kinds of in-jokes you can never be sure if they really mean things literally, so I was curious.

    Honestly, you'd think everyone in South America went to some fancy school judging by the people here. It's ridiculous.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Lynn

    If you stop Americans on the street and ask them which war their National Anthem refers to...
    99.99% will get it wrong...
    That is not fantasy..it's just plain ignorance...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr.DemonTree...

    You say...:
    “Honestly, you'd think everyone in South America went to some fancy school judging by the people here. It's ridiculous.”

    I say...:
    You must be referring to that Anglo Argie Barazilian Turnip aka “Jack Bauer” that went to a fancy Engrish school in Sao Paulo... and it shows...
    Then we have my Anglo-Shilean officer & hermanito aka “Chicureo” that went to a fancy Engrish school in Santiago... but it doesn' show soooooooo much...
    Those are the only two I know about in here at MercoPress... Can't see where “Ridiculous” fits in...
    Personally I didn't go to no fancy school... Just a good one...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Yeah you did, I'm sure you said you went to the best school in Buenos Aires that like four presidents had gone to and a load of other famous people. You didn't attend some crappy state school in Chubut anyway.

    But I suppose most people who did that never learned good English so they aren't posting here.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nehhhh, I didn't... I wrote once I attended the Nacional de Buenos Aires...
    Many consider it to be...., academically..., the best school in Argentina..., algright...
    But it is indeed a state school... No fees.... No tuition... No “being the child of” ...
    Just a little admission exam to sort the worst turnips out...
    http://www.cnba.uba.ar/ingreso

    By the way... I didn't take Engrish at school...

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “Colegio Nacional de Buenos Aires is a public high school in Buenos Aires, Argentina. In the tradition of the European gymnasium it provides a free education that includes classical languages such as Latin and Greek. The school is one of the most prestigious in Argentina. Its alumni include many personalities, including two Nobel laureates and four Presidents of Argentina.

    The school offers an astronomy observatory, a swimming pool, a cinema, a sports campus with football, rugby, handball, volleyball, hockey and basketball courts.

    In accordance with the meritocratic conception of the school, admission is highly competitive. It involves ten exams after a year-long course, testing in language, mathematics, geography, and history.”

    Yeah, just a 'little admission exam', for a totally-not-fancy school. How old are the kids taking the tests? I see 'Romeo y Julieta' listed, that's certainly not covered in primary school here.

    I bet they do teach English now, but what did you take? Greek and Latin?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr.DemonTree...
    As I quite clearly wrote above...:
    “I didn't go to no fancy school... Just a good one...”
    Do you comprehend the meaning of “Fancy School” in Engrish...?

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree:

    “...Do Soviet tanks and planes automatically come with poor training and leadership? I guess I don't understand why Peru spent more on their navy or just has better training there...”

    For around a hundred years, the Peruvian naval academy has produced an outstanding officer base for its navy that has held a strong political influence. Also, Peru values their fisheries and zealously enforces it's territories.

    An example is the original builder of its submarines regularly certifies their fleet. https://www.thyssenkrupp-marinesystems.com/en/submarines.html

    Both Soviet (and now Russian Federation) tanks and planes are generally superb when properly maintained. The problem is that many of their export market customers treat their costly purchases as reliable AK47s which requires nearly no care. Same goes with American, French, German, etc...

    Argentina is a poor example, as their reduced maintenance budget was nearly all siphoned away from its original purposes. Examples include nearly all it's aircraft and ships. (Their icebreaker reconstruction alone is a monument to graft.)

    Don Alberto:

    Regarding Churchill:
    https://www.thyssenkrupp-marinesystems.com/en/submarines.html

    “...Clearly, Obama misunderstood the symbolism of removing the bust from the Oval Office and was embarrassed to admit it...”

    Regarding schools: With a few exceptions, public education in South America is generally mediocre at best. I was very ôifortunate to have had generous parents that sent me to a decent school followed by going to the naval academy.

    Think and I reside on the opposites of the political spectrum, but don't underestimate his intellect and intuition. Colegio Nacional de Buenos Aires is where many of Argentina's elite are nurtured.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Chicureo, you mean Think is an intelligent idiot. I agree! :-))))

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    “Fancy school” isn't a phrase like 'public school' that has a well defined meaning. If I meant private school then I would have said private school.

    If your school library looks like this http://www.gacetamercantil.com/imagenes/fotos/1336.jpg and it has its own astronomical observatory, cinema etc then IMO it qualifies as fancy. Either way, it isn't an ordinary school with ordinary teachers producing average citizens, is it?

    If the pupils don't pay then where does the school get its funding from for all those things?

    And can you tell me what ages go there? The internet is suggesting 13-18, do you have to attend school until 18 in Argentina?

    @Chicureo
    I hadn't thought of fisheries, that makes sense, I've heard they eat a lot of fish in Peru (although the internet claims they eat pigeons, for some strange reason). Didn't Chile and Peru have a dispute about a bit of coastline that went to the ICJ?

    Shame they didn't maintain the tanks and planes, though I guess it's a good thing from your point of view. I suppose in Argentina the left-wing government did not trust the army after all the coups they've had. It's understandable.

    “don't underestimate...”

    I don't. I have never labelled him a Turnip.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @DT “ .....do you have to attend school until 18 in Argentina?...”

    Evidently not. More than half of the young people in Argentina don't complete secondary school. The secondary school completion rate in Chile is higher, even though such school costs are greater for families. And even the Argentine government admits the quality of education here is bad (and it shows).

    News item: “Hoy, la mitad de los jóvenes no termina el colegio secundario”, dijo Esteban Bullrich....“La mala calidad educativa amplía las diferencias socioeconómicas de nuestro país”, agregó el ministro,.....

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Don Alberto (CORRECTION) Regarding Churchill:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/23/heres-the-real-story-about-the-churchill-bust-in-the-oval-office/?utm_term=.8d19c566afbb

    “...Clearly, Obama misunderstood the symbolism of removing the bust from the Oval Office and was embarrassed to admit it...”

    Getting back to Peru, their cuisine is one of the best in Latin America.

    Posted 6 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. Chicureo...
    I see you're still in love with those beauties from Ту́полев..., Илью́шин..., Антонов..., Сухой..., Харківське Конструкторське... not forgetting your first love...: Авто ВАЗ 2101 ... ;-)
    - By the way... I don't Think we reside soooo far from each other politically anymore... This “Momio” virus creeps on you with age... Good thing my Antifa grand-progeny help me to keep it at bay...;-)

    Mr. Demon Tree...
    1) “Fancy school” isn't a phrase like 'public school' that has a well defined meaning” you say....
    Are you pulling me leg..., lad?... I say...
    https://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=248.0
    .... Anyhow... Don't get semantic with me... You understood perfectly well what I meant with “Fancy School”...

    2) The pupils don't pay because it is a State School.. The fundings come from taxation...

    3) In me Nacional time... the ages were 12-18... including the preparatory course...
    Since 2014 it is OBLIGATORY for ALL kids in Argentina to attend school ~12 years...
    As incentive..., the parents get a lump of money from the state as long as the child attends...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    THINK: Our friends do make excellent equipment that just needs some loving attention. That is however with the exception of their AK47s which are nearly indestructible... ;)

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Hermanito Shileno...

    Do you remember how many hours of your youth you spend “lovingly attending” this Soviet beauty...?
    http://cdn.fishki.net/upload/post/201310/09/1209726/gallery/auto-05.jpg

    ;-)))

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    “This “Momio” virus creeps on you with age”

    Oh dear. You're not going to start voting for Macri, or worse supporting Trump are you?

    1. That's exactly my point. In England 'public school' doesn't mean what you might expect from looking at the words, it has its own special meaning, ironically meaning a certain type of private school. 'Fancy school' doesn't, it just means a school that is fancy, so sure, it's kind of vague, but it doesn't mean fee-paying. I would have said private school if I had meant that.

    2. If all funding comes from the taxpayer, how do they justify all the extra expenses of astronomy observatory, swimming pool, cinema, sports campus, clubs and etc? Don't other schools need money too? I was thinking maybe it has investments or gets donations or something to supplement the government income?

    3. “the parents get a lump of money from the state as long as the child attends” - like the Bolsa famila? School leaving age in the UK is 16, thankfully, so high school is ages 11-16, (then there is sixth-form from 16-18). If the preparation is a year I guess you do the exams aged 13? So only one year earlier than we covered Romeo and Juliet, that seems reasonable.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK: ...yes...
    DemonTree: Argentina is a strange case considering that it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world and could afford heavily investing in public education. They still do, with substantial expenditures that exceed Chile.
    This theme is a major problem in Chile as we need to invest more in education.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    1) You say...:
    “Oh dear. You're not going to start voting for Macri, or worse supporting Trump are you?”
    I said...:
    “Slowly Creeping”..., not “Being Born”... ;-)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vqNG_cfM07k

    2) In Latin America.., EVERYBODY knows what a “Fancy Engrish School” is...:
    An expensive..., private..., fancy, posh, elitist (pick your choice)... momio production place...
    There simply ain't no free..., public..., open..., meritocratic Engrish Schools around here... Period.

    3) Please don't try that faux egalitarian lower common denominator public funds allotment neoliberal mantra on me...
    I am a true egalitarian higher common denominator public funds allotment social democrat believer...

    4) Of course it is reasonable to read Shakespeare at age 12...
    Combine it with Plato's Republic and you are on something good

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Hermanito Shileno...
    Don't you miss that frustrating feeling... (and the exhilariation when finally making her purrrrr...:-)

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    THINK: Ahem... with all due respect, your school qualifies as being part of the elite class of Latin American educational icons. Don't be modest...

    http://www.lada.ru/en/cars/4x4/bronto/about.html
    Look, they still produce something like yours...

    The car that fascinated me in my youth, was the Argentine Ford Falcons that crossed the Andes with tourists from Mendoza...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    1. Glad to hear it. It would be boring if everyone around here believed the same things.

    2. How do you say 'fancy English school' in Spanish? And why would there be free English schools in a Spanish speaking country anyway?

    3. Uh what? Could you explain that in English for me please?

    4. Yeah, but at first I thought they had to read it at age 10, which seems a bit much. What's it like in translation anyway? Is it in modern Spanish or very old fashioned language like the original?

    @Chicureo
    Does that mean education in Argentina is better than mediocre?

    Maybe Chile could save some money on the army to spend on education now Argentina is no longer a threat?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    “School leaving age in the UK is 16”
    Not in Scotland it ain't...and it's still part of the UK...

    Mr. Think

    “Of course it is reasonable to read Shakespeare at age 12...”
    What...you waited until you were 12...???...;-)))

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree: It's really complicated to explain South American culture to outsiders, but Argentines are a superior privileged Latin race that has been blessed with some of the finest real estate on the planet and is yet cursed by their politicians. In general, most are well educated, despite being nearly impossible live next door to.
    It's best not to question their education, as they tend to be a bit sensitive...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Really? I know everything is different in Scotland and they do Scottish Highers instead of A levels, but I'm surprised school leaving age is different. In England nowadays young people have to stay in education or training or whatever, but that can be an apprenticeship, or vocational stuff at college, not school.

    I was so happy when I went to sixth form and only the people who choose to be there were there. All the idiots and troublemakers left; we were actually able to learn something for a change. ;)

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Chicureo....

    My all time favourite Argie car... (Never had one..., though)
    100% Industria Nacional...
    Carrozeria Pininfarina...
    Fangio handling...

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/71/87/b2718724b68fef6b3ae369fe1a66f79b.jpg

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Beautiful, yet I never remember seeing one.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    You'd think good education would lead to better politicians. What's wrong with living next door to them, apart from nearly getting invaded?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Besides their Peronismo territorial kleptomaniac mentality, they actually are not that bad as neighbors.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    They made some 500,000 Argie Ford Falcons...
    But only ~90,000 IKA Torinos...
    Maybe tha's why...
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/7a/96/9f7a966a0bc4c89f459058f746f11b82.jpg

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Since things are stupidly expensive here in Argentina (assuming you can get what you need at all) I believe that Chilean businesses appreciate the millions of dollars that the argentos spend in Chile.

    According to this study, US$238 million just in shoes and clothes

    “ ¿Cuánto gastan los argentinos en Chile en ropa y calzado? Solo en ropa y calzado la cifra llegó a 238 millones de dólares, según los datos de la fundación Protejer.”

    http://www.elintrusodigital.com/mundo/2017/9/26/cuanto-gastan-argentinos-chile-ropa-calzado-11990.html

    As the text indicates, more than 50% of the retail cost of clothing in Argentina is from multiple layers of taxes. That tax money doesn't translate into exceptional services (the poor quality of secondary schools in Argentina is one example) . And Argentines pay for the “free” university tuition for thousands of Colombians and Peruvians here.

    More importantly, the Argentines and the Peruvians have shown the Chilenos that it is possible to learn to prepare food dishes decently.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Voice

    Hate to disagree BUT according to www.mygov.scot/leaving-school-options/ it is16

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    So are you going to explain what a 'faux egalitarian lower common denominator public funds allotment neoliberal mantra' is?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nope...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    :( Why not?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Marti: Yes, you're right. Besides Mercosur limitations, Argentines stock up on cheaply imported Asian shoes, clothes and electronics. Your country makes excellent shoes, but they can't compete with China. Apple iPhones have been very popular.
    If you consider beef in Argentina and sea food in Peru, I wholeheartedly agree about food preparation.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    Because I already have...
    As you can read on me previous comment...:
    It is the exact opposite to a true egalitarian higher common denominator public funds allotment social democrat mantra...

    Hermanito Shileno...
    Just for your kind info...:
    1) Since some months ago..., one can only post 1 link per comment...
    2) Turnip MartiLlazo lives in Patagonia but he ain't no Argie...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    THINK: Thanks, with rare exceptions, I have even away from MP and was not aware of the rule.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    But I have no idea what that means. Perhaps you agree with Theresa May that we should bring back grammar schools?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Clyde
    I sometimes wonder about you...
    Anyone can be a high school drop out in any education system anywhere, but Scottish high schools are like American ones...Pupils can stay until they are 18 they do not have to leave to go on to further education..(Highers) and advanced Highers
    In England they leave at 16 and do further education (A levels) in a sixth form college or various other colleges...
    ...bit different because one is treated with a little more respect at college rather than having to tolerate the same teachers that taught you from age eleven...

    Of course there are exceptions to the rule, it is possible to do A levels in an English Secondary School...below the age of 16, but you need to be a smart cookie and basically skip the O level...and risk achieving nothing more than a poor grade A level...

    In case DemonTree is curious...The English A level is more than a Scottish Higher, but less than an Advanced Higher...
    In my opinion...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    That's not true; in England many secondary schools include a sixth-form so you can stay at the same school to do A levels. Mine did not so I moved to a different school in the area to take them. I could have gone to the college instead and I know people who either chose to do that or had to because there were no schools close enough.

    IMO the school I did my A levels at was much better, I think partly because teachers prefer to work in a school where they have the opportunity to teach subjects to a higher level, so they are able to recruit better ones. It also used to be the grammar school for the area back when we had them and had newer buildings and better facilities.

    Is the Higher like an AS then, and an Advanced Higher like the A2? Also, is there a such a thing as a Lower?

    But we were talking about the age you could legally leave school, with or without a qualification. You certainly can't leave before 16, it would be considered truancy.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    The qualification system has all changed now it used to be Standard Grades and Highers...the Standard Grade is called something else and has different levels..I haven't really followed it..
    ..but the Advanced Higher is not like an A2 the A2 is not a stand alone qualification it's a part of the A level...
    Advanced Higher is supposed to be the equivalent of first year in Uni...so you could skip straight to second year in that subject...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • gordo1

    Chicuero - good morning! If you are a former pupil of the Grange you must know my friend and former colleague, David Jackson. Am I correct?

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Voice
    What is there to understand? In Scotland you can legally leave the school education system at 16 if you so wish OR stay on for a further two years.
    I can't put it more succinctly than that.

    You said that the leaving age of 16 did not apply in Scotland.

    “School leaving age in the UK is 16”
    Not in Scotland it ain't...and it's still part of the UK...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Marti Llazo

    UK government:

    School leaving age

    “ Your school leaving age depends on where you live.”

    Scotland

    “ If you turn 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school after 31 May of that year. If you turn 16 between 1 October and the end of February you can leave at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year.”

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    IIRC in England you can leave school in June of whatever academic year you turn 16, so in both cases someone can leave before they turn 16 depending on when their birthday is.

    It seems reasonable to me, what's the point of making someone stay at school if they're bad at academic stuff and are going to fail anyway?

    @Voice
    I looked on Wikipedia and it seems there are Intermediate 1 and Intermediate 2 qualifications. It also gives UCAS tariffs for all the qualifications; A in the Advanced Higher is worth 130 points vs 120 points for an A at A level, and an A in the Higher is worth 80 points vs 60 for an A at AS level, or it's the same as a C at A level.

    Scottish degree courses usually last 4 years vs 3 in England, don't they? So that makes Advanced Higher more comparable to A level if it means one year less at uni.

    Do you get any qualification at 16 in Scotland? AFAIK in most countries there isn't one.

    @Think
    In Britain the left is pretty unanimous in being strongly opposed to selective education. So I truly don't know what your social democrat reasons for supporting it are, and I'd like to understand.

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    TWIMC...
    Returning briefly to the scope of this article...:
    The “Special Relationship between Yanks and Engrish...
    I Think..., that sweet 16 is an all for tender age to kick 'em Engrish youngsters out of school and into a ”Caniche Special Relationship” with them Colonials...

    Posted 5 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9072482/OECD-fifth-of-British-teenagers-drop-out-of-school-at-16.html

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    You complained above about not understanding my chosen array of complicated Engrish terminology like “lowest common denominator”..., “highest common denominator”.... etc..., etc..., etc...

    Seems to be that you are not alone in the world...:



    - ”In the New Yorker’s (May 31) article under the title, “Stephen Hawking angers Trump supporters with baffling array of long words,” Andy Borowitz wrote...:

    “Speaking to a television interviewer in London, the theoretical physicist, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator. --- “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.”

    Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man.. Real bad man...”

    https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/329087/what-does-the-lowest-common-denominator-mean-in-the-context-other-than-math

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    THINK: Thanks for revealing the interesting web page “English Language & Usage Stack Exchange” which seems to be tailored for the Hawking level of intellect. Although I don’t think most American voters want anything that might challenge the intellect of Homer Simpson's intellect... that's perhaps why Trump won.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Clyde15

    Hawkins was too polite to use the expression..“ a bunch of dummies” !

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Chicureo

    I see Hawkins occasionally appear on Jaguar automotive commercials. He has what seems to be a great sense of humor.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” — H. L. Mencken

    Stack Exchange is great. There is also a section for Spanish questions if you felt like helping people: https://spanish.stackexchange.com/

    @Think
    Do you think Corbyn is a 'faux egalitarian lower common denominator public funds allotment neoliberal' because he's opposed to grammar schools?

    Because it sure sounds like it to me.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Your sound interpretation seems to be as bad as your reading comprehension..., lad...

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree: I personally can't imagine the majority of the American public being inclined to wish for Clinton administration either. “Blue collar” voters seem to be frustrated about the lack of change and intellectuals apparently are alarmed with the rapid opposite of Obama enactments. (Healthcare, environment, immigration, international relations...)
    On the whole, Trump follows an unpredictable strategy of doing what he pleases to the consternation of both political parties. Who knows, he might come out on top...

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Why isn't he, then? Corbyn definitely is opposed to the sort of selective education you had. He divorced his wife because she insisted on sending their eldest son to one of the country's best grammar schools rather than the local inner city comprehensive. He recently criticised the PM for focusing on her “grammar school vanity project that can only ever benefit a few children”. How many children does your school benefit, 400 a year?

    This isn't my view, but it is Corbyn's.

    As for reading comprehension, the purpose of language is to communicate, no? If Hawking said something in a lecture that his students didn't understand, and refused to explain it, that would make him a bad lecturer. Similarly if you make some cryptic accusation in a conversation and then refuse to explain what you meant, that makes you a bad conversational partner. That you then try to imply I don't know what a common phrase like 'lowest common denominator' means (and you didn't even get right) just adds insult to injury.

    @Chicureo
    Oh, they didn't. But that's what happens with a two party system, apparently. Hilary Clinton suffered from being the establishment candidate at a time when there are big structural problems in the US economy. Also, she has all the charm and personality of a blobfish.

    Not sure what you're saying about intellectuals, but I don't think many actually voted for Trump. His supporters seem to have a strongly anti-intellectual bent, my impression is that they think anyone smarter than them both looks down on them and is trying to con them.

    Naturally there are smart Republicans, but from what I have seen most are not big fans of Trump. The one thing they seem to approve is his supreme court nomination.

    Personally I find it baffling that anyone would support someone who talks like Trump; his tweets always sound like he is talking to a class of retarded 3-year-olds. I would have thought people would be insulted at that kind of patronising language, but no, they love it

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeeee.........

    Topic seems to have shifted to Donald Trump...

    How can I best express my opinion about that man in concise terms...?

    Maybe by reycling the sapient words of a lad that understands this Unverse better than most of us...:
    ............... “Trump bad man... Real bad man...”

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Gordo 1: Sorry not to have noticed your earlier post. The answer is no. He's is an Old Grangonian of a different generation.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Ah, come on, Think. Can't you find some 'complicated Engrish terminology' to describe him?

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Complicated enough for me... I had to look up SAPIENT for its meaning.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Homo Sapiens..., you know..., an earlier stage of the superior Homo Milicus...

    (Más sapient el diablo por viejo que por diablo...;-)

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    That didn't occur to me. But the dictionary claims sapiente is a word in Spanish. Perhaps not a common one?

    Our species is kinda misnamed really. Think, Homo Milicus = military man? Is that Latin? (Some of us didn't get to learn Latin and Ancient Greek at school.)

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    It's another of tinkle's many inventions.

    Just as “más sapient” differs from the usual “más sabe” (sapient is from French, since there is no word for “wise” or “wisdom” in Argentine Spanish).

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gevera

    http://en.mercopress.com/2017/10/12/obama-officials-treated-special-relationship-with-britain-as-a-joke-and-liked-to-refer-to-falklands-as-malvinas/comments#comment475077: What you do not understand that is that this clip was cut for comedy. This is despite the fact that it may be used as propaganda for you Eurotrash to express your anti Americanism.

    Since 1950 there have been about 20 million service personal who have served in South Korea protecting that country from North Korea. Add to that their families that would make about 100 million who know where Korea is. In addition, The US has very strong commercial and cultural links to South Korea. That would add another 25 million. And add another 25 million who, as a matter of general knowledge, could locate Korea on the map. So that's 50% minimum who would know where it is.

    If you Europeans had a sufficiently creative culture to support a program such as Kimmel which asked the same question of people on the street of one of your cities then, I believe, you would not get anything like the same percentage who know where Korea was.

    But lets assume that your hypothesis is correct. So then the question arises, “Why should a democratic republic, such as the United States, attack a country when the majority of its citizens have no argument with.” To continue, “Why should such a republic defend a country which cannot even be located by its citizens.”

    It should be obvious to you that if US citizens cannot locate North Korea on a map then they are likewise likely not to be able to locate your country either. So the same observations apply to your miserable as well. The answer WRT South Korea and the UK is that we should not be defending either and the US should withdraw from NATO as a minimum. I assume that, by posting that clip, you are in agreement.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Clyde15

    By any chance are you a Russian propagandist ? Sorry but I can't take you seriously.

    You post the same messages word for word automatically under different Troll names and then monthly you post something as above whose sole message is that you hate the British and possibly Europeans.

    If the US pulled out of NATO, your armament industry would falter and thousands would be unemployed.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr.DemonTree...

    You say...:
    “But the dictionary claims ”Sapiente“ is a word in Spanish. Perhaps not a common one?”
    I say...:
    What dictionary would that be...?
    As far as i know..., apart from good old Latin..., the world “Sapiente” is only used in Italian and Portuguese...
    Those are slightly different Dago languages... ;-)


    Always remember...: “Sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat.”

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Gevera/Hepatia
    I'm not anti-American, that is pure projection on your part. You reveal your ignorance and prejudice when you imply that Europe has only one culture and no comedy shows.

    Sure that clip probably included mostly the stupidest responses, but it's a humorous illustration of a real issue. You're obviously just pulling numbers out of you... hat, but I'd be willing to bet

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Dear Hepatia...
    Don't get sooooooo mad...
    You Yanks can't be the always the best...
    Wach and.......................................... enjoy...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVick42IZAk

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Tinkle - you used the word “sapient” which is not castellano (but you deceitfully attempted to correct your error by now discussing sapiente).

    I'm not sure of the correct expression for “ back-pedal” in this context by my dictionary offers a picture of you as an example.

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Damn, it cut my comment off halfway. Here it is again:

    @Gevera/Hepatia
    I'm not anti-American, that is pure projection on your part. You reveal your ignorance and prejudice when you imply that Europe has only one culture and no comedy shows.

    Sure they probably included mostly the stupidest responses, but it's a humorous illustration of a real issue. You're obviously just pulling numbers out of you... hat, but I'd be willing to bet less than 50% of Americans can find NK on an unlabelled map. And no, I don't think British people would do any better.

    But I reckon most Americans could find Britain on the map. It's a distinctively shaped island in Europe so easy to spot, and kinda relevant to US history!

    ”Why should a democratic republic, such as the United States, attack a country when the majority of its citizens have no argument with [it].”

    For oil, if you're referring to Iraq. For various geopolitical reasons if you mean other countries.

    But in general the reasonableness of any given war should be judged on its own merits and does not depend on the geographical knowledge (or lack thereof) of the country's citizens.

    As for withdrawing from NATO and other defence commitments, the US isn't in them for charity but to maintain its power and influence in the world. If you are happy for that to be diminished, then sure.

    @Think
    Is this good enough?

    http://dle.rae.es/?id=XH32Vgz

    Posted 4 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Indeed it is...
    If the ReL Academia Española says it is... it is. PERIOD...

    (Note to myself...: “Sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat.” :-)))

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Más sapiente es el demonio por comprobando en primer lugar que por demonio.

    ...or something like that.

    How did you know it's a word in English? it's not exactly common as Chicureo pointed out.

    Also I liked this comment on the video you linked above: :)

    “Not dumb just ignorant... when I told my friend I was from Argentina, he asked what part of Mexico that is in.”

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    No DemonTree, I didn't infer that. I just said I had to look it up.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nunquam Non Paratus lurking in the tenebrae... ;-)

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeF_o1Ss1NQ

    @Chicureo
    Okay, I inferred it from the fact you speak good English but didn't know the word. And my totally unscientific poll confirms that it's not well known, except among a certain subset of people. Have you read the Discworld books, Think?

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    If you Engrish listened to Bernard... Engeland would be a better place...
    READ Discworld...?
    Nope... Can't say I have

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It's not up to me, I'm not running the country.

    Why do you emphasis 'read'? Have you seen the TV version?

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nope...
    Just forgot the caps lock on...

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    You should try them, they're very good.

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Discworld...
    I've read every single one...;-)
    Sadly missed....:-(

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Too true. :(

    Do you remember what the Luggage was made of?

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Sapient Pearwood...;-)

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Holy Mol(l)y...!
    *Maybe that's the way I do it.. ;-)

    *(One of the greatest features of The Luggage is its ability to follow its current owner anywhere including such places as inside its owner's mind)

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rufus

    @DemonTree re Sweden

    There was the Anglo-Swedish War of 1810-12 (where Sweden was obliged to declare war on Britain, and seize British ships and goods in Swedish ports in order to avoid becoming a vassal of Napoleonic France.
    The war itself was almost entirely bloodless (the only casualties being 30 Swedish farmers who were killed in a riot over increasing Swedish conscription rates), and largely pointless (while “official” trading with Britain ceased, the actual volumes of Anglo-Swedish trade was unchanged - the goods were “smuggled” with the blindest of possible eyes being turned).

    Posted 3 days ago - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Anbar

    I'd much rather have a special relationship with China.

    Not sure why this lackey of a minor Lackey's minor lackey so wants to ruin his diplomatic career though... seems an odd thing to do... as with many Trumpicans perhaps he doesn't recognise that he's being a dick?

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Rufus
    Now that is the kind of war I don't mind having! And wasn't Sweden's king at the time one of Napoleon's old marshals? Apparently he was more loyal to his new country than his old master.

    Posted 1 day ago - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gevera

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Posted 22 hours ago - Link - Report abuse -1

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