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Montevideo, November 17th 2017 - 19:35 UTC

Argentina formally protests Rapier missile exercise in the Falklands

Saturday, October 28th 2017 - 07:58 UTC
Full article 206 comments

Argentina presented on Thursday a formal protest to the United Kingdom embassy in Buenos Aires rejecting the military exercises with Rapier missiles in the Falkland Islands, scheduled to take place next week. Read full article

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  • Jo Bloggs

    Yawn. Have these jokers ever actually looked up the range of a Rapier?

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Islander1

    Jo- you are asking a basic intelligent question- how could any Argentine Govt answer one?

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse +7
  • Roger Lorton

    Neither the UN nor the IMO will care one iota.

    It's a regular enough event. I think we do it to give the Malvinistas something to chew on.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Clyde15

    Our annual laugh in. What is their point ? It has a range of about 6000 metres . Are any Argentinean aircraft likely to come within range without permission ?.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse +11
  • Brit Bob

    President Macri, Argentine Congress 1 March 2017

    ''Next year Argentina will host the G20, one of the most important forums in the world.

    This is the way to advance our interests, including our legitimate claim for the Falkland Islands, Georgias and South Sandwich.

    Dialogue strengthens our position and allows us to come closer to finding a definitive solution to this prolonged dispute.''

    Legitimate claim?

    Argentina's Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims: -
    https://www.academia.edu/27599163/Argentinas_Illegitimate_Sovereignty_Claims

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • The Voice

    Rapier still in use? Shows how good our design work was back in 1968 !

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Jo Bloggs

    TV

    This is the latest version and only a few years old now but still a Rapier. Were you involved in the original design?

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Terence Hill

    Hopefully the UK will proffer a counter note indicating that Argentina is in violation of the UN and OAS Charters. Game, set, and match.

    Ref.: 2225(XXI)
    The General Assembly,

    Reaffirming the principle of non-intervention, proclaimed in the charters of the Organization of American States, … and affirmed at the conferences held at Montevideo, Buenos Aires, … State and Government of the African States,

    Recognizing that full observance of the principle of the non-intervention of States in the internal and external affairs of other States is essential to the fulfilment of the purposes and principles of the United Nations,

    Considering further that direct intervention, subversion and all forms of indirect intervention are contrary to these principles and, consequently, constitute a violation of the Charter of the United Nations,

    In the light of the foregoing considerations, solemnly declares:

    1. No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal or external affairs of any other State. Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of interference or attempted threats against the personality of the State or against its political, economic and cultural elements, are condemned.

    4. The strict observance of these obligations is an essential condition to ensure that nations live together in peace with one another, since the practice of any form of intervention not only violates the spirit and letter of the Charter

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse +10
  • Think

    Kim Jong-un...
    Nig Elph-illips...
    Different colour..., same shiat...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse -14
  • EscoSesDoidao

    So they are protesting a defensive weapon?

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • The Voice

    Jo, yes I was, design, prototyping and testing. Havent kept updated on subsequent development though. My engineering career involved a bit of work on the Pegasus in the Harrier, the Vulcans Olympus Engines and the propulsion system of HMS Invincible as well as the original Rapier. So accidently quite a few connections to the Falklands war.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse +7
  • Clyde15

    Think

    Well, I will bow to your expertise in identifying shite......you propagate enough on this forum.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +8
  • Pete Bog

    “The Argentine Republic rejects the execution of these exercises in Argentine territory”

    Forsooth, didn't realise our lads were operating Rapiers on the South American mainland?

    Have we taken back Ushuaia?

    I thought the protests would stop, as we have kindly removed the unarmed yellow helicopters from the Islands, viewed as a massive military threat to Argentina.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • falklandlad

    If only Rapier missiles had range to penetrate Buenos Aires; we could dispatch one to Faurie, with love!

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Jo Bloggs

    TV

    Sounds like you had an interesting job. Like you, I know a lot more about the earlier Rapier model/s although only from an operational perspective rather than design like you.Not sure how many there have been but I was reasonably familiar with one model that was widely in use in the 80s. I must look it up now and then I’ll post a link.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • golfcronie

    Mk2 Rapier good for about 6.6 kms is my understanding, perhaps we should protest about missiles being launched in Chabut, as I understand it is full of Welsh( never liked the welsh )on second thoughts best launch in Chabut

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nig Elph-illips' “weaopn” is smaller than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • The Voice

    Ridiculous to protest about the testing of defensive weapons, especially from an agressor with a recent history of genocide, attrocities against its own population and failed would be colonialism! Yet more Argie hyperbole, all part of the fake claim to feed the brainwashed masses, dinosaurs and simpletons in present day Argentina.

    Jo, look up DN181...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' “missil” is shorter than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Lightning

    I note that “Think” has used his incorrect login to reply to himself.

    Rapier or no Rapier, he has shot himself in the foot.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +7
  • The Voice

    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' “missil” is shorter than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Posted 17 minutes ago - Link - Report abuse

    Poor old Tinkle...should have logged in as Voice. Bahahahaha :-))))

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +7
  • Lord Lucan

    Actually, Rapier is not a Miss ile, its a hit ile.

    Educate yourself Tinkle turnip....

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Think
    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' ”rocket” is weaker than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • The Voice

    Fail again Marcos..

    Chuckle Chuckle..

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Think

    Think
    Think
    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' ”projectile” is titchier than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • DemonTree

    It occurs to me that Voice usually calls him 'Mr. Think'. Perhaps we should be speculating on who else he might have intended to log in as? I have my own theory.

    On the subject of North Korea, the US and South Korea do joint military exercises every year, and every year NK goes apeshit over them. However, NK does at least have the excuse these forces are a real threat to their country. The rapier missiles are no threat to Argentina unless they decide to tear up their constitution and make another ill-advised invasion attempt.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' ”dirk” is crummier than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    (Psssst Mr. DemonTree..., it could just have been a cblock & copy” oversight..., but don't tell them Turnips... this is funny ;-)

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • DemonTree

    Dammit, don't just give the game away! I wanted to see who would suggest what.

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Don't worry...
    Now that I said it..., they'll NEVER admit that possibility...

    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' ”falchion” is cheesier than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • darragh

    “The foreign ministry release also indicated that Argentina would report the coming exercises to the United Nations Secretary General and to the International Maritime Organization” - ooh bugger, the UK's in real trouble now

    Think - you are making yourself look a bigger tit than you usually do - been on the meths again??

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Think

    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Think
    Nig Elph-illips' ”hanger” is scuzzier than Kim Jong-uns'...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • The Voice

    What happened to the Argie Space Rocket? With the creaking railways, clapped out smoke belching buses and crappy trams in mind it seems to me that that an Argie Rocket is potentially far more dangerous than a Rapier Missile. The Rocket is sure to go off course big time ! Perhaps the Islanders should complain to the UN?

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Voice

    It's great to watch all these clever folk think of everything, but the obvious...
    How many times did Mr. Think need to block copy his post before someone twigged...;-))))

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Think

    Only 3 :-)))

    Oct 28th, 2017 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -8
  • Voice

    No doubt it will go down in the annals of Mercopress history as one of those famous occasions when you outed yourself Mr. Think...;-))

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Think

    In line with those famous occasion when we outed ourselves by using ellipses Mr. Voice...;-))

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Jo Bloggs

    TV
    Thanks, I had a look at that. I wasn’t in Artillery but was attached to an Artillery unit as a Royal Engineer and we used to transport the Rapiers around and set them up as part of our role.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    Funnily enough it was TV's post that made me suspect.

    @TV
    I didn't know you'd worked on those things, that does sound interesting. Is there much difference between designing something for military vs civilian use?

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • golfcronie

    Yes in designing something for civilian use the object is not to kill anyone but the reverse is true if designing for military use.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. Golfcronie...
    Allow me to contribute...

    You say...:
    “in designing something for civilian use the object is not to kill anyone but the reverse is true if designing for military use.”

    I say... :
    In designing “real quality” stuff for Armed Farces use..., the primary objective should be not to kill the soldier but to maim it...

    Geeeee..., Clausewitz would luuuuuuv them laser dazzlers (the whit ones..., mind you...)
    Anybody read “Vom Kriege”...?

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Clyde15

    Think

    Why do you say that. If you don't kill them then they can kill you. It's called survival.

    Think about Kamikazes. If you maim them they can still kill you.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    I remember my interview applying for a job on Rapier, I was told I would be in the killing business and asked how I felt about that? All I can say about my time in the Ministry of Aviation, Bristol Siddeley, Fluidrive and Elliot Automation is that it was so interesting and rewarding that I couldnt wait to get to work every day, and as an Engineer I loved the non military work just as much. So much of what we producing at every place went for export you felt you were doing your bit for Britain too and that gave you lots of satisfaction as well. People dont seem to think like that these days though.
    During my lifetime Britain has never been an agressor and what we produced were craft and weapons to protect and defeat evil which is what they did during the Falklands war.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Jo Bloggs

    TV
    I can fully relate to that and I think you should be proud of your contribution. The Rapier, of all things, in British hands and the hands of anyone the UK authorises sales to, is clearly a defensive weapon, not an offensive weapon. Bristol in those days was an exciting place to be with Concorde being developed there also.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Jo, yes, during my student apprenticeship on release to Bristol Siddeley, I worked at Gipsy Patch testing both the Olympus 593 the Concorde Engine and the Olympus RX for the TSR2. Immediately after finishing the apprenticeship I worked on the fatigue testing of the Concorde airframe at the RAE. That was exciting too. Wrote my first computer program there in Mercury Autocode! Lol ! Rather fewer such exciting opportunities for Engineers in Britain these days.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Clyde15

    Talking of missiles, my cousin was on the design team for the Sea Wolf missile and its integration into the type 22 frigates at Yarrows.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    I note that Brazil and Chile tote Sea Wolf. Wonder who they worry about... ;-)

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Don't be tedious, Golfcronie. Things like jet engines and navigation systems are not designed to kill anyone, and tanks and missiles need to be safe for those operating them.

    I was thinking of things like robustness and tolerance of different climates, which might be different, and ease of maintenance and interchangeability of parts when equipment is being used a long way from the base.

    And The Voice, Britain was the aggressor in Iraq and Afghanistan, at least. Wasn't the Suez crisis within your lifetime too?

    @Clyde15
    Many modern weapons such as landmines are purposely designed to maim rather than kill, because caring for the wounded, both on the battlefield and afterwards, consumes more of the enemy's manpower and resources and the injured person can't fight again anyway.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • The Voice

    Hyperbole! Iraq was to remove a tyrant and Afghanistan was about ridding people of the terror of the Taliban, both causes that I support. But...in both cases I thought our involvement was a lost cause right from the start and that leaving both alone was the lesser of the evils. I marched in the demos in London to protest about it. Were you there DT, I bet you werent there? The Camel Corps were totally correct - dont mess with the ***!?**'s.

    Suez was to protect vital trade routes to impoverished Europe, the coup by Nasser was viewed as heading off a tyrant. The aggression was the Egyptians trying to block a trade route otherwise we and the French wouldnt have been there.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    “Iraq was to remove a tyrant and Afghanistan was about ridding people of the terror of the Taliban, both causes that I support.”

    I'm no big fan of either regime, but the reasons given for invading were the nonexistent WMDs in Iraq, and the Taliban sheltering the terrorists who attacked America. But either way we were the aggressors; both governments were tyrannical but neither had directly attacked us or our allies.

    And yes, I marched against the Iraq war in London along with a million other people. Because I thought it was a bad idea, but more importantly because I thought it was wrong.

    “Suez was to protect vital trade routes to impoverished Europe, the coup by Nasser was viewed as heading off a tyrant.”

    How does that make us not the aggressor? Did Nasser try to block trade through the canal? Did he attack foreign shipping?

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Jo Bloggs

    The whole idea of the 5.56mm rather than the 7.62mm was to injure rather than kill. 1 dead soldier waits til the battle is over. 1 badly wounded soldier takes a medic and someone else to help him out of the battle.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Study your history DT. Who blocked the canal with sunken ships? I do not accept that we were agressors, there was a good (but misplaced) reason we joined the Americans and it wasnt agression. Blame your lying mate BLiar...

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I don't know much about the Suez crisis. Did Nasser block the canal with sunken ships before or after we invaded?

    As for Iraq, the coalition started the war. Iraq had not attacked any other country and the coalition attacked them. Whatever the reasons for the war, whether they were good or bad, we were the aggressor.

    And don't try and foist Blair on me. *I* never voted for him. Can you say the same?

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • The Voice

    It was after. Saddam had invaded Kuwait and then there were the gas attacks and the supergun. Nasty piece of work, he deserved to go but as we saw it was a ghastly mistake for Iraq and the middle east in general, a hornets nest. W started it. I called it Rednecks Revenge, similar to the moronic policies of Trump we are experiencing right now. The Camel Corps were correct.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jo Bloggs

    ...anyway, in the case of Rapiers in the Falklands, they can only be considered defensive and have a range of about 8km max; and the only way they could constitute any sort of threat to Argentina would be if Argentine forces strayed into our controlled airspace by more than 150km, unauthorised and unidentified.

    Cry all you like Argentina.

    Oct 29th, 2017 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    “It was after.”

    Well then, you can't say Nasser started the war if he did it in response to an attack.

    “Saddam had invaded Kuwait”

    Yes he did, and in the first Gulf War he was the aggressor. I totally agree he was a nasty piece of work and deserved to go, but it was still the coalition who started the Iraq war. (And unfortunately the lesson it taught places like Iran and North Korea is that cooperating doesn't work and they better have WMDs for real.)

    Also, about Blair; I don't blame anyone who voted for him before the war. It's not like we knew what he'd do and the Tories were strongly in favour of it as well, so most likely it would have happened either way. Just don't pretend that I support him.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Think

    Hello Jo...

    Somebody just tweeted that some MBDA CAMM's are to be tested tomorrow...

    Can you confirm or deny...?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • golfcronie

    A year ago there was another protest regarding the award to the Israelis supplying the FALKLANDS with the C41 Air and Missile Defence System, so yes the Rapier will be de-commissioned in 2020 when the C41 is deployed.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Rapier has had a long innings, about 40 years. Its a pity that todays generation dont find Engineering an attractive profession and we are having to seek its replacement from abroad. I guess Engineering is seen as too difficult compared to the host of dumbed down so called degrees now in vogue, meaning we are having to import trained Engineers from Asia.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Gevera

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • DemonTree

    “I guess Engineering is seen as too difficult compared to the host of dumbed down so called degrees now in vogue”

    What makes you think that? Did people choose their subjects based on how easy they thought they'd be when you were young? It certainly wasn't my experience. Perhaps back then when university was free people didn't take it as seriously?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • The Voice

    Read the papers, read the letters pages, listen to the news, listen to many academics. Much of academia has been severely dumbed down making it easy to get some sort of degree. Multiple choice questions, A level students who cant tackle O level questions from the 50s and 60s. STEM subjects are shunned because they are viewed as too difficult for many of the 30% now going to so called Universities. In the past it was only a tiny number, the cream of grammar school attendees that attended the 20 Universities that existed back then. At school you learn little about careers. Many schoolteachers are almost totally ignorant regarding careers in industry and ever since tne early 19th century it has been regarded as a second class choice. In Germany things are different which is why their economy is so successful. China and India are going down the same track whilst we continue to decline. Too many of tofays graduates end up flipping burgers or sitting in call centres, what a waste !

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • gordo1

    Cry baby ninnies! Don't they realise that all the time they keep quiet no weaponry will be aimed at them! Silly billies!

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    What did you expect to happen? If you only send 1 in 20 people to university you can pick the best, and have higher standards. People have got cleverer over time, if the Flynn effect is to be believed, but not by that much.

    What you are missing is that good universities with difficult degrees still exist, and there is a lot of competition to get into them. Yes, even in STEM subjects. And in the past, lots of people who would benefit from going to university couldn't go, because they screwed up an exam when they were 11 years old. Or they went later because their employers sent them there, because there was a shortage of educated people.

    And you are probably right about school careers advisers, but that has nothing to do with students choosing easier subjects. Most people choose to do what they are good at, and interested in. Some are inspired by what they see on TV, or people they know. Besides, I suspect most people who are interested in engineering would find other subjects like English or history decidedly MORE difficult.

    As for education, some dumbing down is the inevitable result of all the testing and league tables. But part of the difference is just changes in content. For example, at school I was taught a lot of history that happened within your lifetime. You were presumably taught other things that I wasn't. In other subjects the curriculum has changed for other reasons, based what is thought to be more important to know now vs then.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    On the contrary, when I did OU degree level Arts courses years ago I found they were dead easy and discovered why so many do non STEM subjects. At Falmouth they have 700 students on photography degree courses, why? Dyson has had to start his own University to train more skilled people with student apprenticeship/ traineeships to show Academia how to do it. So its back to the 50s and 60s once again - good move! Too many people choose what they see as easy...the Arts, but then end up flipping those burgers or reading from a script in a council office or call centre.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    If you really studied a STEM subject, you should understand why I want evidence and not just your anecdotes and, apparently, mind reading skills that allow you to know why people choose one course over another.

    So how about you find some before complaining again about 'young people today'?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • darragh

    The Voice

    Much the same here. My neighbour's daughter is 'studying' hair design at some place in Cork. A 3 year course which will end up with her having a degree??????????

    For feck's sake.

    I would have given my eye-teeth to go to uni but I just didn't have enough between my ears so it was work on the farm, like it or not..

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Young Mr. DemonTree...

    Don't listen to auld Turnips and their even older postjudices... doyour own Thinking ;-)

    “I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint”.
    (Hesiod..., 8th century BC)

    “The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers.”
    (Attributed to Socrates... by Plato)

    “The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress.”
    (Peter the Hermit..., A.D. 1274)

    “I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.”
    (G.K. Chesterton A.D. 19??)

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Darragh, its not the young folks fault that everything has been dumbed down its probably my generations fault for allowing things to slip to the low point we have now reached.

    Working on a farm... nothing wrong with that at all, we need farms to feed us, a noble and worthwhile occupation, all respect to you.

    DT I can offer no evidence other than what is now the poor state of affairs recorded in countless articles and letters in the press and the stories told by retired teachers lecturers and academics. They cant all be wrong.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    DT

    Anti-personnel land mines are designed to blow your leg off. The result of which is you die of shock OR bleed to death unless emergency aid is forthcoming.

    What other weapons are designed to maim ?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Geeeee... the Lowlander is completey wrong............., AGAIN!

    “Of the total of 6,461 mine/ERW casualties the Monitor recorded for 2015, at least 1,670 people were killed and another 4,785 people were injured...”
    http://the-monitor.org/en-gb/reports/2016/landmine-monitor-2016/casualties-and-victim-assistance.aspx

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Try this..

    Can any of the Argentinians who are reading this please explain why your government is protesting because the British armed forces based on the Falkland Islands are testing short range air defence weapons in the Archipeligo's airspace?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    CAMM-ER's ain't no short range...

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Damn, so many replies...

    @Think
    D'you know what they are complaining about with today's young people? That they are too boring and sensible!

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/youth-today-boring-polite-and-very-fearful/15807#.WfdYEWi0M2x

    You just can't please some people.

    @TV
    “I can offer no evidence”

    But you can. It used to be difficult to find evidence, now we have so much at our fingertips. You could start by checking whether applications to study STEM subjects have been falling or rising. You could get an estimate of how hard different courses are by comparing the drop out rates between different degrees at the same institution. You could look for surveys asking students why they chose to study a particular subject.

    Judging the general state of anything from the papers is a bad idea because they only report things that that are noteworthy, and they prefer bad news.

    @Darragh
    I had a look at Cork University's website and there is nothing like a hair design course listed. Most likely she is studying 'hair design' at a college and will get some qualification that is not a degree, that will help her get a job as a hairdresser or similar.

    @Clyde15
    Jo Bloggs mentioned 5.56mm rather than the 7.62mm rounds somewhere above, which I don't know much about, but I can't think of any others.

    CAMM-ER range is 45km, that's not going to reach Argentina.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    G..................... ..y ;-)

    And I repeat...
    CAMM-ER's ain't no short range...
    ~ 10 x times them Rapier's range...
    Try to guess what“ ER” stands for...?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Extended range, I assume. But it doesn't answer the question, because your government is complaining about Rapier tests, not possible CAMM-ER tests. So why are they so upset?

    I see our government did inform them formally this year, since they complained about the way they found out last time.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    No meat in them questions..., lad...
    Gaaaaaaaab.....

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Well then, I'll speculate. Perhaps they object because the exercises show Britain still does not trust them to stick to peaceful means, despite the return to democracy, despite the supposed new friendly relations.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    DT your assertions about the newspapers are not based on evidence either! Surely you have seen all the letters articles and various studies? You are in denial, admit it.

    Perhaps we should get a missile system that can shoot things down 200km away, or better still a missile that can hit targets in Chubut, then the Argies would having something to genuinely complain about?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Clyde15

    The Storm Shadow could hit Chubut. Our Meteor BVR missile has a range of 100 km PLUS.
    should be enough

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    What assertions? I haven't seen all the 'letters, articles and various studies', and I've had different experiences to you, so why would I believe the same things? Will you be convinced if I tell you my own anecdotes? They don't prove any more than yours do.

    Newspapers like telling stories, and how young people today are going wrong is a perennial favourite, as Think pointed out. It's like Boris's bent bananas, something stupid that people can get indignant about.

    So why not dig out a few facts and see if they back up what you believe? Here, I'll do the first one for you:

    http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2015/patterns-and-trends-2015.pdf

    Page 24 compares students by subjects of study between 2004-05 and 2013-14. Biological Sciences, Mathematical Sciences, Physical Sciences and Engineering were all up. Languages, Education and Computer Science were down. Was that what you expected?

    And no, we shouldn't give Argentina something to genuinely complain about, tempting as it may be. The more they complain about non-genuine things, the less seriously other countries will take them.

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Hmmm....I learned, when studying 'facts' have a look at who is presenting them and what their angle is. Universities angles seem to be self agrandisment, self preservation and escalation of obscene salaries for Vice Chancellors. Just my experience of 16 years on a University campus..

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    The Voice, you always change the subject when I ask you awkward questions. Or give you awkward facts.

    Why don't you use some of that scepticism on the newspapers that 'can't all be wrong'?

    Oct 30th, 2017 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • darragh

    The Voice

    You are quite right it's not the fault of young people that we've dumbed things down. I was just having a whinge.

    DT

    I know it's not Cork Uni she's going to and maybe she was just exaggerating to say that it was a degree course but as I just said to The Voice I was in full whinge mode when I wrote that - had a real crappy week.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @darragh
    Looks like there are colleges in Cork but I doubt they are giving degrees in hair design.

    There has been some dumbing down, it started before I was at school. Some of it is things removed from the curriculum, and some is teachers teaching to the test, which means students' results improve but they don't have as broad a knowledge of the topic. It's unavoidable with all the testing and league tables.

    But the improved results don't actually help the students, they are still competing with each other for limited places, so the grades required just get higher, or universities require STEP papers or whatever in addition to A levels.

    Anyway, I hope the rest of your week goes better. :)

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Do not worry Darragh, me wee barra...

    This site is full of frustrated Paddies, Jocks, Taffoes and Sassenachs that,..., not being permitted to beat their wife, children, or livestock anymore..., come here to bash and whinge about some Dagos in the South Atlantic...

    That's what this site is for...

    Anyway, I hope the rest of your week goes better too. :)

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Doh! “you always change the subject” - I'll make it clearer. That study was by Academics. You cant expect folk to criticise themselves, they have a vested interest to preserve. There are thousands of studies that could be quoted illustrating different views but the noise level on the slip in standards, the waste of money and resources, the dumbing down and inappropriate University courses is overwhelming. If it hasnt touched you it shows you must be living in a very sheltered bubble like existence, or, simply in denial.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I pointed out one table in that very long document. Are you claiming they lied about the number of students doing different courses in order to preserve some 'vested interest'?

    If there are thousands of studies illustrating different views then find one; that is what I am asking you for. Not a 'noise level', which is just whoever shouts the loudest, but some facts. The study I found was merely an example of what you might look for, and shows that data is available.

    If you are right then you will be able to find some evidence, and I will concede that it's true.

    @Think
    Are you really as racist/xenophobic as you make yourself sound?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    DT

    I will answer for think....yes he is.

    Think

    The site is full of whinging lying Argies and camp followers whose kleptomaniac tendencies are sensibly exposed by Paddies, Jocks, Taffoes and Sassenachs.

    Interesting use of pejorative terms above.

    You differentiate between Jocks and Sassenachs. What is the difference oh knowledgeable
    one ? Note the irony in the last statement.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    “I will concede that it's true.” .... And pigs will fly... but not from a bubble

    Kleptomaniac Argies are a menace. They want bits of Chile, bits of Uruguay, bits of Bolivia, bits of Paraguay, bits of Brazil and the whole of our Falkland Islands. Their demographic is the considerable scroungeing least intelligent section of the population originating from Club Med countries led on by the significant Nazi part originating from Northern Europe.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @Think

    “And I repeat...
    CAMM-ER's ain't no short range.”


    Are they being fired off in the Falklands now then?..

    And can they be launched at Argentine airfields?

    The Argentine angle is that ground to air missiles with a short range are threatening the peace.

    But they can't be used unless there are attacking aircraft.

    So if Argentina decide not to use their remaining Fighting Hawks, to attack the islands there is no threat to Argentina.

    So peace and stability for all, reigns in the South Atlantic, thanks to the generosity of the UK.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Unlike some people on here I believe things where there is evidence, and have admitted it when I was wrong. But if you don't try you will never find out. And worse, you'll never know the truth yourself either.

    Argentina is really no worse than other countries. Nearly all of them have had disputes and wars over territory in the past, and many areas are still disputed today all over the world. It's nothing to do with their 'demographic'.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    You ask...:
    “@Think... Are you really as racist/xenophobic as you make yourself sound?”

    I say...:
    Nope... It's just my Southerner humour...:
    Q...: Why do them Engrish prefer mushy peas...?
    A...: Because they can't keep the round ones on their knives...;-)

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    “Argentina is really no worse than other countries.” Prove it, where is the evidence, chapter and verse please. And include everything from 1982 onwards. Does your job allow you free reign on time spent Googling? If so, what job is it? Is it in the public sector? Do you believe everything you read on the interweb or do you talk face to face with people who are closely involved and if so do you try to discover their predjudices?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Sure. Have a look at this, it lists plenty of disputes for many countries around the world, both settled and ongoing:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes

    For disputes that led to war in South America, there was a war between Chile, and Peru & Bolivia over border claims in the Atacama desert. After the War of the Triple Alliance in which both Argentina and Brazil claimed land from Paraguay, Paraguay had a war with Bolivia over the Gran Chaco. Bolivia also had a war with Brazil over Acre, which ended with them selling the state to Brazil. Colombia had a short war with Peru over a territory in the Amazon. There were three wars between Ecuador and Peru over borders in the 20th century, the most recent in 1995.

    There were also a lot of other disputes that were settled peacefully, by agreement or arbitration, and some are still outstanding.

    If you really must know, I start my next job on Monday, so for the next few days I have as much time for googling as I please. And you are retired, so you don't have that problem.

    @Think
    And this:

    “My parents Engrish...?
    Just to Think of it... makes me shudder...”

    Is that just your 'Southerner humour' also?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Nope...
    That's more personal...
    It relates to a 200 years old cowardly Engrish terrorist attack against defenceless civilian members of me clan...

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    DT is that a temporary job or a permanent one? Zero hours? What kind of work? Is it satisfying or just a job to pay the rent? You seem a bit sore jobwise, is that because you havent managed to find a career that gives job satisfaction plus a decent living?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Are you convinced that Argentina is not the only country that wanted pieces of their neighbours now?

    And I have never had a job that was so interesting and rewarding that I couldn't wait to get to work every day. It would be nice, but few people do.

    Also, I find it amusing that you accuse me of boasting about my education and then think I'm doing zero hours work. One minute I'm a champagne socialist and the next I'm broke and voting for a handout from Corbyn. Make your mind up!

    @Think
    Nothing that happened over 100 years before you were even born can be personal. And if you blame everyone from a whole country that is xenophobia. I can promise you neither I nor my parents have even been to Copenhagen.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    'Avent you ever heard about genetic memory..., lad...?
    Below an easily understandable teaser about the subject...
    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-25156510

    Engrish... pfffff...

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I never said that Argentina was the only country that wanted to grab other peoples land, I just asked you to prove it wasnt and you didnt. You dont seem to understand that a couple of odd Google links isnt proof at all, thus its no use posting them. Post experiences gathered from talking to many people.

    Neither did I say you were on zero hours, I asked you whether you were? You seem to have consistent problems with comprehension. I quite understand you not being willing to reveal your profession or trade, thats if you actually have one?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Think

    It relates to a 200 years old cowardly Engrish terrorist attack against defenceless civilian members of me clan...
    A genetic memory...how convenient !
    So which “particular” clan would this be.
    The only atrocities against any clans I know of were committed by the British government in Scotland after the '45 and later in the clearances.
    It cannot be a “Scottish clan” as you are , by your own words, Argentinian and make a great fuss about some unknown Scandinavian heritage.

    So how did the English treat some Scandinavian people in a cowardly manner that burns into your very being today.

    I always thought the Norwegians were appreciative of the UK for giving refuge to the Norwegian Royal family and helping to free their country from Nazi tyranny. No reason to hate the British

    Likewise, Denmark was liberated by the British Army in 1945, so I think the Danes would have appreciated that so no reason to hate the British.

    Sweden, being neutral, sold goods and materials to the UK and made money.
    Again,no reason to dislike the British.

    So a so called race memory outweighs the above...a rather twisted outlook

    From our point of view, are we supposed to hate Scandinavians because of brutal rape and murder carried out by them on the British isle from about 600-1100 AD. No, ancient history.
    How about the Roman occupation ? I think we have forgiven that.

    In the case of Argentina, we don't need a race memory for the events of 1982.
    By and large, we would be happy to consign it to history BUT you keep up your whining and snide remarks about it.

    So, we are entitled to dislike and distrust Argentinians as a people as you Malv. Marcos, Gevera etc seem to be the ones representing your country in this forum.

    “By your words shall we know you” and by your actions,even more.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    “Post experiences gathered from talking to many people.”

    I'm having trouble believing you're not just trolling at this point. I though you said you were educated in a STEM subject?

    Just imagine using your method at different points in history: ask all the ancient hebrews and they tell you the earth is flat. Ask in Europe before Galileo and everyone will say the sun goes around the earth. They'll also claim a cannonball that weighs twice as much would fall at twice the speed. Ask people in the middle ages what causes disease and they'll say it's bad air and miasmas...

    The google links aren't the proof. The disputes and wars themselves are. They happened, you can look them up in multiple sources, despite the fact that for most of them, all the people with personal experience are long dead.

    As for the zero hours thing, it's the implication of asking the question that matters, not whether you really believe it. And I'm not going to tell you, so you'll have to keep wondering.

    @Think
    Judging by that study, you seem to be saying the bad experience of your distant ancestors has made you fear and/or hate English people. Which is more than a tad ridiculous, so perhaps you can enlighten me on what you really mean?

    @Clyde15
    This is my best guess at what he is complaining about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Copenhagen_(1807)

    I suppose from his point of view we are supposed to hate Scandinavians, as well as Normans and, presumably, each other. And probably Paraguayans are allowed to hate Argentinians and Brazilians for their much more recent and deadly war.

    And we may presume that Argentines make the Falklanders shudder, even the ones not born in 1982, but I guess *they* just have to get over it.

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1s&v=_XNQKivhv3Y

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    That was weird. And not at all informative. Aren't you going to tell me whether I'm supposed to hate the descendants of long dead vikings?

    Or should I hate Germans for wounding my grandfather in WWII? It must be in my genetic memory somewhere, right?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    DT, I ran a business in a University Science Park for 16 years. I know many lecturers and teachers as friends and acquaintances. I sat on University committees and project boards. I read newspapers and read the letters and articles, I have grandkids at Uni. I listen to what everyone is saying and have read various studies and reports. From those things I form my opinion. British academia is steadily getting dumber and out of date which is why people like Dyson have been forced to set up their own training schemes. Sad but true.

    As for Zero hours, my daughter was on one at one point and found it very convenient. Burger flipping, IT work, waiter, clerical, warehouse work, Christmas Post, Sports Direct, which is it?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Boy...
    Where did I ever said i “HATE” you Engrish...?
    All I said aboVe was that the thought of me parents being Engrish made me shudder...
    And I am on record here for having said repeatedly that i don't “HATE” no Engrish... I KNOW them...

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    So the idea of being related to someone like Jeremy Corbyn, or British_Kirchnerist, makes you shudder?

    You don't know over 50 million people. You don't even know me. Thinking you know all about someone because of what country they come from IS racism.

    @TV
    I respect that, but my experiences have been very different. Why would I trust yours over mine? Or vice-versa.

    Personal experiences are notoriously unreliable as proof, this is why we do experiments and gather evidence and hold double blind trials in medicine. Did your education not include learning the scientific method?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Jeremy Corbyn..., British_Kirchnerist, millions of other Brits and humble me are related... politicaly related...

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Then why would having someone like that as a parent make you shudder? How about as a son or daughter in law?

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
    A fine English lass as Glenda Jackson for a daughter in law, I wouldn't mind....
    On second thoughts.......... I wouldn't mind having her as a homemaker meself... ;-)

    Oct 31st, 2017 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Good lord, weren't you married three times already? I'd have thought you'd be sick of it by now!

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    You surely don't believe a word that The Voice utters...?
    This is the troll that still has three separate accounts and at least four identities...
    Even his current name was an attempt to pose as me...
    He resents education because of his lack of it...
    He's the Walter Mitty of Mercopress, don't believe a word he says...
    He will brag and boast and continuously try to belittle you, simply because you have a degree and he doesn't...
    I know his type..he believes he is smarter than you, but doesn't have the educational qualifications to prove it...

    ps.....He's not...
    and his grammar is atrocious....;-)))

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    ................................................... But he has a Stag....;-)

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I note Billy received his knighthood...

    https://youtu.be/4ruwmeWFqyc

    ;-)

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Harsh. But it's hard to believe he's really educated in a scientific subject if personal experiences are his idea of proof. It would explain why he's always telling me how his friends agree with him though, as if that means anything.

    His second account is the Lautaro one? Which is the third?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    CaptainSilver is the third...
    http://en.mercopress.com/2013/12/27/blackouts-continue-in-argentina-while-government-keeps-threatening-power-distributors/comments#comment295760

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Its Lord Lucan, he occasionally speaks for the departed. Lautaro sometimes speaks for the native peoples of the land now known as Argentina.

    Its a bit rich of Mercopress's most noxious troll criticising bragging, he has been a serial aggressive braggart promising to punch folk, bagpipes to his portfolio of foreign and domestic property. My grammar isnt the best, we never studied that at Acton, and being a cockney doesnt help. I could have converted my Diploma to a degree with no extra study, it was offered but I couldnt be bothered as it was unecessary to do so to become a Chartered Mechanical and a Chartered Electrical Engineer. You have to do a lot more than get a degree to qualify for that.

    As for the Stag, yes its one of my Classics, bit of fun to tinker with and enjoy the summer. The Rudge Ulster I rescued from a scrapyard as an apprentice.

    DT, do you prove everything with googled links when in conversation? Neither do I !

    Pot calling a kettle black?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I stand corrected...
    Four Accounts...I have just checked the Lord Lucan account it's another separate account...
    This means that The Voice deals in subterfuge, a peddler of lies and deceit...
    Openly admits he likes to be someone else....(Walter Mitty)

    So you attended a Tech College...so what...
    I taught an evening class in a Tech College, I've never bothered to mention it previously because it's not a big deal...
    I've also attended a Tech College, because I was interested in learning about a particular subject that interested me, the qualification that came along with it was an unnecessary bonus...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Is that four accounts total then? How ironic after all the accusations of sock puppetry on here that The Voice is the biggest offender!

    And TV, grammar was out of fashion when I went to school, the only grammar I have ever been taught is French grammar. But mistakes like 'isnt' are easily avoidable, any spellchecker will pick that up. And to get 'its' and 'it's' right I have to check each time, it's less about education than laziness.

    As for proving things in conversation, since smartphones became ubiquitous more than one disagreement has ended with us pulling them out and checking some fact. Fortunately my friends are mostly not the sort of people who believe their personal experiences trump proper research.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Acton Tech...., see what it became - Brunel. One of my fellow apprentice classmates became Professor of Cybernetics there. Hows todays weather, chucking it down as usual?
    Great to see Dyson is following the excellent example set by the Colleges of Advanced Technology, a sort of Sandwich course that produces graduates that can actually do things rather than academic wafflers with no industrial experience.
    Any other big deals you havent previously bragged about?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Lucan

    Captain Silver has been retired, you wont see any of those other Logins very frequently, I dont usually use them.
    O Level English Language and Literature on my certificate. I thought you had to have at least English language O Level to study at University? That explains why so many youngsters frequently write breaks for brakes, births for berths etc Personally cant stand spell checkers..

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Who can brag about attending a Tech College...?
    You most likely left school for an apprenticeship (Fitter or Sparky), took day release at a Tech College...
    The company probably funded further Tech Qualifications and through experience entitled yourself as an Engineer...
    Your route is the same as millions...so what...you are bragging about nothing...
    Stop pretending to be someone else and be happy with your lot...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Lucan

    No, Voice, wrong. British Gas description of 'Engineers' does wind me up. I served a Student Apprenticeship with the Ministry of Aviation. First two years at a Tech on day release, next four on the Sandwich Course. Chartered status achieved at the age of 26 whilst working on the Rapier Blindfire. The rest of my career I was Chief Engineer or Engineering Director of 4 different companies until I started my own software company which I ran as MD for 16 years.
    Tell us about the bricklaying... ;-)

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “I thought you had to have at least English language O Level to study at University?”

    For a start, everyone's been doing GCSEs instead of O Levels for many years. You generally need a 'C' in GCSE English Language to go to University, which is not particularly difficult.

    And this was one of those educational fads. We were still taught to spell and punctuate and generally write correctly, but we weren't taught any formal grammar. Verbs, adjectives etc were not mentioned. We were not told of the existence of such things as dependent and independent clauses, let alone what the difference is.

    Some years after I finished school, the people in charge of the national curriculum changed their minds again, and those undergoing teacher training had to be taught all the stuff they had missed out on to enable them to teach it to the next generation.

    TV, the mistakes you listed are exactly those that are not caught by spellcheckers. However, since you constantly make the kind they would catch, you would certainly benefit from using one. (As would Think.)

    Did you take O levels, by the way?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I was interested in some design aspects that involved very fancy brickwork and construction (Gothic Arches in Orders), I wasn't sure what was possible or even plausible so I thought it wouldn't harm to have some practical experience...
    I was also semi retired so I took this at a Tech College...
    City & Guilds 6705-33 Diploma
    Unfortunately I had to take level 1 and 2 first...
    Proved to be very useful...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ......................................... but you haven't got a Stag....;-)

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Ya got me there Mr. Think...
    They are a labour of love, but I can be envious without being jealous...;-)

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Sapient words..., Mr. Voice...: “I can be envious without being jealous...”

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
    “This means that … deals in subterfuge, a peddler of lies and deceit… stop pretending to be someone else and be happy with your lot”
    Your words which are more than inapplicable to yourself as the biggest sock-puppeteering troll on this site. In addition the biggest hypocrite as well.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    “sock-puppeteering troll”

    Are you asserting without any proof...?
    Yes!!...you are indeed...hypocrite much...?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Indeed...sock it to him Terry!

    DT I took 9 O Level GCEs Eng Lang, Eng Lit, Maths, Physics, Biology, Geography, Art, failed History and French neither of which interested me at the time. But throughout my life I have studied French and love History. Then it was the Civil Service Entrance exam at Googe Street (Clyde will know it - supercharged 11+, and a day of tests and interviews at the RAE) 1 in 36 suceeded. The RAE had 400 apprentices at any one time, 100 of them destined to be engineers, the rest craftsmen like Voice.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Craftsman...?
    ...that's my relaxing hobby...
    Useful too...
    What did that kitchen extension on the rear of your property set you back...20k?
    Would cost me 3k tops...
    If I fancy a new house, I wouldn't think twice about building one...

    There is no way you passed Eng. Lang...
    I reckon you would be struggling with a CSE...
    More fiction from Walter...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Quite heavy Engrish 80'es stile..., that kitchen extention..., by the way...
    Could have used a light Scandinavian touch...
    I'm sure Missus The Voice would agree...
    Don't you Think...?
    ;-)))

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Lol. Nevermind, he said your words are inapplicable to yourself anyway, so he was accidentally right.

    “There is no way you passed Eng. Lang”

    Maybe exams were easier back then? ;)

    @TV
    You really do feel you have something to prove, don't you? I told you once that how you act on here makes a much bigger impression on me than any qualifications you have, and I wasn't lying.

    I guess education was very different back than anyway. Was there a lot of rote learning? Did you use slide-rules? Can you do sums in your head since there were no calculators then? And, did you learn what a dependent clause is? ;)

    GCSEs are kinda stupid because they score down to grade G but anything below a C is pretty much useless. Did your O Levels have grades or was it just pass or fail?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    You have been on this site for a while now..., interacting with Turnips and No-Turnips and asking a ton of questions...

    Now..., I have a simple question for you...:

    Do you Think Mr. Voice and Mr. Think are the same person...?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    The current style around here is to combine a kitchen and sort of sitting/dining room with large windows. Great idea, except for the noise from squabbling kids, the noisy machines, steam, sizzling pans, smells etc. That extension was built 30 years ago and the kitchen renewed 11 years ago. Still looks good, nothing has worn out, excellent design. Voicy must tell us how he can buy 25 feet run of star galaxy gold granite worktops and all those units, not to mention several thousand pounds worth of appliances, bricks blocks roofing etc and stay within 3k. But then he's in the trade and we are talking about one of the UKs least desirable areas...

    I got it, as well as being a serial bragger, you are burglar too... ;-) Or, would you rifle through some of those abandoned properties pinching stuff?

    As for Scandinavian, thats definitely 80s and IKEA stuff is utter non durable cheap crap. Wouldnt have it in my home.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
    “Are you asserting without any proof…?”. No I’m repeating the same assertion based on my empirical knowledge that you have failed to refute on at least six occasions. http://en.mercopress.com/2016/01/22/macri-cameron-coincide-on-new-relationship-falklands-left-for-further-on/comments#comment428151

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    No.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    You don't miss much do you Mr. Think...;-)

    Apart from... “He found a crooked sixpence upon a crooked stile”
    It's not your first language...so you are forgiven...

    The Voice
    I said build the Extension...not fit the kitchen...jeez...
    Blocks about 90p each...10 blocks to the metre...
    6 metres x 2.5...the two return walls 4mx 2.5..total of 35 metres..350 blocks..£315 Cavity wall so double it..£630
    Lean to...so half trusses...every 600mmm...11 half trusses £40 a piece..£440
    Must be cheap upvc windows because the door certainly is...£200 for the door same for the windows a piece..
    Roof tiles about a quid a piece...about 320...£320..
    £2190 so far...A wind and waterproof shell...
    Still plenty of money left for felt, insulation, sand, cement, plasterboard, wiring, sockets...

    So Terry what you are saying is it is your opinion and no proof...thought so...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Wow, that's quite a thread. I see Terry has not changed at all.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    I know nothing... but I learn..., Mr. Voice... ;-)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EaoPMANQM
    By the way... Wouldn't we be needing a fundament for that extension...?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    Mr. Think

    Yes you would...
    Strip foundation for wall...not a great load bearing being single storey...Depth depending on frost levels..and soil type...local building regs...
    Not a lot of cost in that...dig a ditch put 200mm of concrete in it...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • The Voice

    We got in a builder to do that job, it cost about 7 grand if I remember correctly, a pretty fair price. The door was the original kitchen door, wood, its been replaced since. My craft of choice is woodwork, designing pieces and making them which is very rewarding.

    I had to check my GCE certificate all Cs except a B in Biology, pass was D. We did learn tables by rote. All Enginners used slide rules, I still have mine.
    Nothing to prove except correct wrong assertions. I am proud to look back on my unexceptional career and like many Engineers heartily dislike being described as some sort of mechanic by uneducated fools who are often teachers and who should actually know better.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    With all that heavy Indian granite worktop The Voice installed... I wouldn't have dug less than 400 mm...

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I guess the grades are one lower than GCSEs, your C's would correspond to B's now. Not that it's very comparable when the content has changed so much. I failed my English Language GCSE (got a D) and had to retake the exam a few months later. It was my own fault for not working hard enough.

    I've never even seen a slide rule, though our maths teacher did show us booklets with all the trig functions in tables. That's what they used before calculators.

    And I learned tables up to 12 in primary school but I've forgotten most of them by now. It's easy enough to work then out, anyway.

    @Voice
    Would you know how to build a set of walls to terrace a very steep garden? I suspect the wet soil would put a LOT of pressure on a wall.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Terence Hill

    Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire and mythology major
    “So Terry what you are saying is it is your opinion and no proof…”
    What is important is your failure to deny my claim, the legal consequence is therefor your acquiescence. “Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    TV
    Civil Service Entrance exam at Googe Street (Clyde will know it - supercharged 11+,

    In my day (1960) I went straight to interview as I had the requisite University entrance qualifications...English, French, Maths. ,Physics, Chemistry at Higher grade, Geography at Lower grade and Arithmetic. There were 1200 applicants for 115 places as an Officer of Custom and Excise.
    In my interview group, I was the youngest and the only applicant without a degree.

    As it happened, I was the only one who passed the selection board on that occasion.

    So a degree was not an advantage in this case.

    I still remember one of the questions posed.
    “Describe to us the workings of the internal combustion engine without using your hands.
    Imagine I am a visitor from Mars and have never seen one”

    I said, “if you came all the way from Mars then surely you would know how one worked ”

    The chairman of the panel started laughing but my interviewer was rather peeved and insisted I tell him. No problem as I had passed the Air Training Corps engineering theory exam and my Dad had worked on Merlin, Bristol Hercules and Napier Sabre engines in the RAF in WW2.

    As I had answered back and been slightly Bolshie..in a firm but polite manner...I thought I had blown it and almost gave them the two fingers as I was leaving.

    To my surprise, I was accepted for training with a two year probation before the appointment was confirmed.
    I then held a Commission signed by that well known trio, Imms, Blake and Pepper...straight out of Dickens ! All this went to show that a degree was not necessary to get, what was at that time, a highly competitive Civil Service post.

    The main requirement was an ability work alone and unsupervised and deal with difficult situations without back-up and take the can back if you were wrong...which of course I never was...as you can see by my many postings here !

    What was the subject of this forum ?

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Excellent Clyde! Back in those days that exam and what followed ensured that they got the right people regardless of any other academic qualification, it weeded people out. Many of my peers stayed in various parts of the Civil Service. To this day me and my old friends from those days still get together frequently, my pal in Helensburgh being one of them.

    This thread was about the daft Argentinian protest at us pooping off a few Rapiers to test that everything is still operational and forewarn them that if they try another stupid invasion they will be shot out of the sky.

    Nov 01st, 2017 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    The hydrostatic pressure of water behind a soil retaining wall is easily relieved with perforated plastic pipe at the base behind the wall..you can leave it open at either end to seep out of...
    On top of the pipe and behind the wall is backfilled with about a foot of gravel to drain the soil to the pipe.
    How I would build it is dependent on how high each wall is which is determined by how steep the slope is and how deep the terraces are going to be...
    Loads of different methods..thin facing (half brick wall) with concrete behind or natural stone facing with blocks behind to save money...
    If you google retaining wall drainage there are plenty of illustrations to give you an idea.
    If you don't have the skills you could lay stones without mortar like a dry stone wall (dry stane dyking here) and fill behind with concrete...
    Sky's the limit...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Thanks. Is it feasible to have two 1 metre high walls about 1 metre apart, maybe a little more? And could I bring them together at the corner into one wall that's 2 metres high? The soil is solid clay and it's gradually cracking and slipping down the hill, I'm worried if I build walls that close together they wouldn't withstand the weight. And I guess they would need some sort of foundation too?

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • CHelmy

    The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a British government propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • golfcronie

    Ever thought of moving? It might be cheaper.

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    Things to consider, angle of repose.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose
    Is the clay flowing?

    If you slope the retaining wall back slightly that is good.

    Walls are very expensive to build, especially if built by craftsmen who are in high demand right now.

    Move?

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    That's one of the most agreeable characteristics of them Engrish people...
    Even in the midst of a missile crisis..., they have the time for a nice gardening chat...!
    Lets analyse the challenge.... shall we...?...:

    1) Young lad without many monies...
    2) Wants to produce veggies and other good stuff on...
    3) A very little..., steep sloped..., pure tractosed clay backyard...

    That's how this DIY Patagonian would Think...:
    http://i0.wp.com/artefakto-mx.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/terraced-garden-beds-steep-hillside-terraces-with-staircase-to-be-turned-into-a-interior-decor-home.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    The clay is flowing, it stays saturated all winter and gradually slips downward. At the top where it's supposed to be be flat, I found a crack so big I could stick my whole hand in it. It's a nightmare to mow the lawn.

    Think, several years ago I built steps up in one place using a similar method, planks with posts holding them in place. Most of them are now leaning forward at alarming angles. Many of the posts have rotted at ground level and snapped off, but the ground has sort of set in that shape so they haven't collapsed. The bottom step has almost disappeared into the ground due to the clay oozing down around it.

    I guess moving might be an easier option. It's amazing how hard it is to find a house with a decent sized garden in England.

    PS. What does tractosed mean?

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Tractosed..., from Tractosis = Soil compaction = Hardpan...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Advice on slopes. You often see that netting on steep banks in front of French houses.

    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=834

    The general feeling is apply a mesh of some sort and plant the bank up with plants thst have a good root system that will survive on clay.

    Must be much less expensive than building expensive walls.

    There are those wire cages that you fill with rock. You can mix topsoil with the rock and plant them up in the cracks and end up with a nice planted wall effect. Something you can do yourself which will make a very solid wall.

    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=834

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    I was hoping to create some flat spaces for growing vegetables etc, but I guess that would be more practical and certainly a lot cheaper. I'd like to do something with it before selling the house, because it doesn't look great at the moment with all the holes.

    @Think
    That's an obscure word. The only dictionary that lists it is a Danish to English one, for some reason.

    It might be accurate in summer when it dries out but the ground is pretty soft the rest of the year. Walking on the lawn is like walking on a soaking wet sponge.

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Sorry, meant to post this https://www.gabionbaskets.co.uk

    Behind the top of the cage leave one foot plus and fill it with topsoil digging out clay if necessary. Then you have a veg patch. Freecycle for rock and topsoil and your free clay for lining ponds. You have proof its a good impervious pond liner.

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Obscure words from recondite Chubut... What else did you expect...;-)

    By the way..., your words...: “...The ground is pretty soft the rest of the year. Walking on the lawn is like walking on a soaking wet sponge.”... describe exactly tractosis (soil compactation) on building sites where the cheeseparing builders just threw some inches of topsoil over the hard tramped clay...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    All the new builds I have seen have been like that. Except usually it's a few inches of topsoil over whatever rubble the builders couldn't be bothered to cart away.

    My house isn't new, but that was probably true back when it was built. The real problem is that we're on a hill and they dug into it to get a flat area to build the house and garage, so what was left was all subsoil. Making the flowerbeds was fun, I dug out the clay in neat cubes and then tried to break it up and mix it with sand and manure. It wasn't very successful.

    @TV
    I think if I used gabions there wouldn't really be any space behind left them to grow things. I'd just have big steps made of gabions up to the top. Maybe I'd have the same problem with a wall though. What I really want to do may just not be possible.

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    Ok...I'm just back...
    2m rising 2m is a 45 degrees slope that's pretty steep...
    When you say a 2m wall connecting the two do you mean at the sides of the wall and the 2m wall is not retaining soil, but acting as a buttress for the two terraces...?
    A perpendicular buttress... perpendicular to the slope at both ends is a good idea, one midway depending on how wide the garden is would also be good and the middle one wouldn't need to be 2m high, but 1m stepped...less chance of slippage, wouldn't look bad either as they would divide vegetable patches...
    Any chance of meeting rock for the lowest foundation...?
    A buttress need only be stepped, they don't need to be be a rectangular construction because with all brick or block construction the load is transferred in a series of triangles that is why there is never much load bearing on a lintel above a window or an arch...
    The base of the buttress would need a strip foundation as the load transfers to the ground...
    It all sounds complicated, but it's fairly straightforward...

    Your lawn is like a sponge because the water from the slope is following the clay and lying between the soil and the clay...a ditch at the bottom of the slope and perforated plastic pipe bedded in gravel would run the slope water off to the sides and make a dryer lawn...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    It's hard to describe without a diagram. Basically they dug into the slope to make a flat area for the garage, so the ground rises on two sides of it. Along the side of the garage it slopes up, and there is a flat area at the top which gets wider as you head towards the back. Obviously the slope has to get progressively steeper to allow this.

    At the back of the garage is a wall which the previous owners built, so anything I built would need to meet this. In the corner where the slope meets the wall it gets extremely steep, 60 or 70 degrees. So I'd like to build the existing wall higher and have two smaller walls converge and intersect with it at the corner.

    There is no chance of meeting rock, it's clay all the way down.

    If I built a buttress it would stick out and get in the way of making a path along the bottom of the wall, right?

    I did look into putting drains under the lawn, but there's an issue of where the pipe could drain to, and it seemed like a lot of effort so I decided to put up with the damp. ;)

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” ...
    You are living on top of a hill of prime Engrish clay...
    Always better than low radioactive British Steel LD slag...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    Clay is fine if your foundation ditch is bedded with maybe 150mm of compacted hardcore and 100 mm of concrete for a small wall...
    The stepped buttress would stick out unless you first put in a lower wall level with the beginning of the buttress say 2 blocks high (440 mm) and making the base of the buttress 2 blocks high then step the buttress to a metre high to meet the first wall of the terrace...
    So in effect you would have 3 terraces the first being almost half the height of the others...
    Then put your path on front of that...

    BTW your maximum permitted development for a wall in your garden is 2m max..
    Anything more and you would need planning consent...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • teaberry2

    It's to to see the Argies are still scared of us...and a few bangs..

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    It's to to see them Anglo Turnips can't put no fifteen words together in Engrish...

    Nov 02nd, 2017 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jolene

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    Return to sender, address unknown.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Building gabiens or a retaining wall is not going to stop the Argies complaining about the deployment of the Rapiers,which incidently is the subject of the above article.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    Jolene

    The UK will replace the Rapier missile in the Falklands within 25 years.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    You say...:
    - “Think, several years ago I built steps up in one place using a similar method, planks with posts holding them in place. Most of them are now leaning forward at alarming angles. Many of the posts have rotted at ground level and snapped off...”

    I say...:
    Maybe you should try with some Argie timber...?
    These posts have been in a somewhat damp environment for the last ~80 years down here in Patagonia... and they still look pretty serviceable...
    https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5542/30581782452_8754666d25_b.jpg

    Or try with some Engrish DemonTree...;-)

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    Do you think it wouldn't be strong enough without a buttress? There's so little space at that end, that's the problem. And I'd like as big a flat area at the top as possible.

    Maybe it would be easier to try replacing the steps with brick first, that seems more complicated but less likely to go wrong. Or I could just move house.

    Does that 2m rule reply to retaining walls since they don't stick up above the ground? But I wasn't planning anything over that height anyway.

    @Think
    I do like living on a hill, it gives us a nice view. And I'm happy to have a decent sized garden even if it's a difficult one. Doesn't mean you're safe from radioactivity though, the survey said there was a risk of radon gas...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    DT

    Your best bet for waterproof durable timber is Larch and with pressure impregnation it should outlast you. It was widely used for telephone posts. I have a post in my back garden that has stood for 50 years and is still OK.

    Greenheart is the best and toughest wood for wet construction sites. Most of our seaside piers were built of this in the Victorian times and many are still standing.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    To be fair all the wood I used was recycled, I really didn't have much money back then. I wasn't expecting it to last forever. It's hard to believe any wood can stand sitting in wet ground for such a long time though. I put wooden edging on my borders a couple of years ago and some of that is already rotten at the bottom. I'll probably replace it with tile at some point.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    If you could have afforded larch posts at the time..., as Lowlander recommends..., you would have had some veggies log ago..., and we wouldn't be having this exchange... boy.
    ;-))

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    How about this...
    Bet reclaimed sleepers would work...

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d0/86/4c/d0864c3c33b27d6eab04e20b51e971f7.jpg

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I have veggies now, they're in raised beds made out of the old fence panels. I've got strawberries in one, and sweetcorn in another and potatoes in the one that's under the hedge; nothing else really grows there. The fourth one has courgettes and I found a giant one yesterday, I'd stopped checking because it's so late in the year but I guess it's been mild enough to keep growing.

    I've also got other stuff growing in the ground but most of it has died now it's getting towards winter.

    I did think about sleepers but they are actually quite expensive. Maybe I should look into them again, though my slope is about twice as steep as that one. Would they really hold back the earth long term?

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I don't know what expensive is to you...just looked on Ebay

    Buy As Many As You Like Only Pay £14.99 Carriage***

    New Treated Timber Sleepers 100x200mm x2.4m
    Treated in Brown
    Ideal for raised beds and garden landscaping
    unlike reclaimed sleepers these will not leave tar all over your clothes
    “At a less2build.com price”

    They are pretty heavy and nothing stopping you driving a hex head screw into the one below for extra strength..

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Sleeepers...?
    Railway wooden sleepers...?
    Ave, you windblown Island guys lost ya mind...? Never heard of Creosote..., or the Eurpean Union...?
    Those things are forbidden..., and for a good reason...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/4794226/Toxic-sleepers-hit-the-buffers.html

    You will 'ave to wait until after Brexit..., I reckon...
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Ha...those reclaimed ones are selling @£20.56...a piece
    Those on Ebay are treated new timber @£18.86...a piece

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Hmm, if I want to go up approximately 2m and each sleeper is .1m high, and I just do the steeper end, so say 8 or 9m long, I'd need about 80 sleepers, costing roughly £1500. I don't know how that compares to a wall but it's a significant amount of money.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Concrete blocks roughly about a quid a piece non-trade...
    10 blocks to the square metre 8m long...80 blocks...x2...£160...
    Let me think about that for a moment...
    Yeah I'll go with the sleepers...;-)))

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    'Ave another look..., boy...
    Using the right kind of wood...
    Can you see the Scandinavian lightness of the design...?
    It could even improve the resale value of your castle.... Ugly concrete blocks... , on the other hand...
    http://i0.wp.com/artefakto-mx.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/terraced-garden-beds-steep-hillside-terraces-with-staircase-to-be-turned-into-a-interior-decor-home.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    What about bricks? They'd look okay and there is already one brick wall.

    Think's picture is about the right height and steepness, expect mine is in two steps right now. But that design doesn't allow for a path in the middle. And the right kind of wood would be expensive I'm sure, people don't dump nice new larch posts behind the empty factory.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Well...
    You could try with chewed chewing gum...
    People “dump” them eweryvhere..., as far as I know...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Oh fine, I'm sure you can afford as much wood as you want and everything else besides. I had to use what I could get.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Boy....
    Most of us have surely had as little money and experiece as you have now...
    Some of us still have...(as little money... that is..)
    But..., at a point in ones' life..., one learns from ones' mistakes and does not repeat them...
    Ya haven't reach that point yet..., I reckon...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I reckon most of your 'turnips' are a lot older than me. Have they learned?

    When I look around me and see people who are struggling to pay their debts, or who run out of money at the end of each month, I can't say I regret my decision to be more frugal.

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Frugal is goooooooooooooooooooooooood... boy...
    Freeze to death rather than splurge on heat..., ain't...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    DemonTree

    I have been trying to work on the cheapest way to do it...
    Obviously one does not leave the concrete blocks as they are...
    They get a rendered coat of sand and cement, then you could paint the wall any colour you wish..bright colours making a statement or pastels to blend...
    Bricks in a garden are a bit passé...unless they are the stone finished type, which are pricey...
    They are also a love it or hate it feature...
    A nice plain wall with coping and smooth or riven effect render on..never upsets anyone...Think future sale...

    Yeah Mr. Think...we've all been Skint and know what it's like...

    Nov 03rd, 2017 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    All of the above is all to do with Argies complaining about rapier, or how to build a wall. Which is it?

    Nov 04th, 2017 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    I hadn't thought of that, maybe it could work. I'm not planning to stay here toooo much longer, so I don't want to spend a lot of money, and increasing the value of the house is important.

    I didn't know bricks were considered passé, it's a mystery to me who decides these things.

    @golfcronie
    Walls, it's definitely about walls.

    Did you want Think to complain about the rapier some more? Perhaps if you ask him nicely...?

    Nov 04th, 2017 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Sooo,,,,what interesting point are you going make about the article that hasn't been covered....?

    ...the floor is yours...

    Nov 04th, 2017 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ...floor...?
    Ya mean..., the tribune...?
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/86/4c/d0864c3c33b27d6eab04e20b51e971f7.jpg
    ;-)

    Nov 04th, 2017 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Leicestershire is not short of a bob or two. My niece and nephew enjoyed Uppingham and Oakham.

    Ask a builder and he will suggest blocks. You can always tell houses or gardens designed by builders, they look like houses and gardens designed by builders! The cheapest and easiest way to stabilise that bank is with some mesh with lots of planting pockets filled with good topsoil and compost and fast growing creeping plants that will hold things together. Very common on motorway banks and in front of French houses where they have excavated for garages.

    Who wants to look out of their windows at walls, brick, block or rendered? Flowers and varied folliage are far preferable.

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Anglo Turnip just above...

    And how do kitchens designed by undiplomed ingeneers look...?
    Never mind..., I know...;-)

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Probably like yours Tinkle.....

    BTW, what do you do with the heads?

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    My house and garden were built by the builder for his own family apparently, that's why it's nicer than the others in the row.

    If I build walls then I will plant some things that trail over them, but anyway this area is behind the garage and only (partially) visible from the bathroom window. Depending how soon we want to move it may not be worth trying to build something anyway. It's a shame, I kind of wanted to see what I could do with it.

    PS. What heads are you talking about?

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Tinkle claims he lives in the horsemeat area of RGland. They are the worlds largest producers ( I believe he lives in Brook Street, certainly not in RGland) He says he has horses. The Barra Bravas are a good market for the heads.

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    That's damn obscure.

    He could prove he's in Argentina (or at least not in Britain) right now just by going outside and taking a picture; it's still daylight there.

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    He cant though....

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    I don't think he will do it.

    I guess I could prove I'm in Britain by taking a picture of the fireworks I can hear going off. Have you been to see any this year?

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    We have nice picture windows and sat watching a fine display in other peoples gardens whilst eating our dinner. Some interesting programmes detailing what happened back in 1605. A century of turmoil followed.

    Think doesnt need to prove anything, his mission is just to spread doubt discord and division.

    Nov 05th, 2017 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    “his mission is just to spread doubt discord and division”

    On this obscure news website? You think someone is paying him to post here or he just enjoys sowing doubt, discord and division and does it for fun?

    Nov 06th, 2017 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I believe he is a brainwashed Peronist zealot living in Britain. Havent you noticed he is bang up to date on British affairs, good English, probably connected to the Embassy. Constant prescence... Mercopress...

    Nov 06th, 2017 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Not that good English. But he could post the same stuff wherever he lives, I don't see why it matters or why you think he's connected to the embassy. I should think the embassy staff have better things to do.

    Nov 06th, 2017 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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