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Montevideo, September 22nd 2018 - 03:48 UTC

Falklands conflict: Sir Henry Greald Elliot, an involuntary trigger

Monday, February 19th 2018 - 09:33 UTC
Full article 19 comments

Sir Gerald Henry Elliot, businessman and philanthropist died, 28 January 2018 in Edinburgh. Gerald Elliot was managing director, and later chairman, of the Edinburgh shipping company Christian Salvesen when it signed a deal with an Argentine scrap merchant, Constantino Davidoff, to have machinery removed from some disused whaling stations it had on the island of South Georgia. Read full article

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  • Brit Bob

    Galtieri was just looking for an excuse to recover what had supposedly been lost by Argentina...

    In a controversial article titled ‘Are the Malvinas really ours?’ published in La Nación on the 14th February 2012, Argentine historian Luis Alberto Romero wrote that: “We have outlined [the frontiers of the Argentine territory] so many times at school that we ended up believing this was the reality.” (Las Malvinas Son Argentinas' : Who Taught You That? Monella, L.M. The Argentinian Independent, 4 April 2012).

    Peron created the Malvinas myth and by '82 Argentina was ready for war...
    Falklands - Argentina's Imaginary Territory (1 pg):- https://www.academia.edu/35715281/Falklands_Argentinas_Imaginary_Territory

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Livepeanuts

    This is fascinating and long overdue information, we had the Argentine side from day one before the Falklands were invaded.
    Anybody with any remote dealings or knowledge of Argentina must know that the minds of adults are “weaponised” from the time that they were 6 or 7 according to the ideas of General Perón, the fascist who studied under Mussolini and brought back to Argentina those methods of indoctrination. The 1955 revolution only took out the adoration of Peron and Evita (similar to Mussolini), but left all the rest of the doctrine “La Nueva Argentina de Perón”.
    Argentina should be the most Anglophile country in the world, they even used to drive and the left and more or less applied to be part of the Empire, but all the British infrastructure and management was eradicated by the fascists in the 1940's decade, specially after 1946 when Peron came to power charting the downward course for Argentina from world power to the third world.
    This fascist poison placed carefully in primary schools has been feeding back generation after generation since 1946 and now the indoctrinated indoctrinate the indoctrinated and demand more indoctrination (example: Malvinizar la historia), it is a dangerous feedback loop burning out Argentina. All the problems in the South Atlantic are in the class rooms of Buenos Aires and that is the only place where they can be resolved.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse +8
  • pgerman

    @Livepeanuts

    I almost totality agree with your concepts regarding Peronism, its political origins, its ideological inspiration and its social conceptions. I also agree in its consequences in Argentina and in the LATAM region. But, unfortunately, the sovereignty problem of the Islands is earlier, and more complex, than Peronism and its visceral, and primitive, nationalism.

    In the era of globalization, the existence of Islands in the South Atlantic, with the current political status, is an anachronism. A remnant antiquity of an Empire of past centuries that can currently survive “subsidized” by British taxpayers.

    Even if the claim of sovereignty of Argentina disappeared, without the military support (“subsidy”) and the political support of the United Kingdom, the current political status would not last a single minute in the current international reality. Not a single company that exploits natural resources in the area, mainly fishing, would pay a single pound for the fishing licenses. And the islands, alone, would have no way to enforce the payment of the licenses.

    It is very clear that the islanders are not squatters but the inhabitants of the Chagos Islands were not squatters either. Both, Chagos I. and F. I inhabitants, are honest people that deserve (and deserved) respect. Without reaching the extreme hard decision made by the United Kingdom, the eviction of all the Chagos Islands inhabitants, it is reasonable to find a “creative” solution agreed between the parties involved according to modern times.

    Currently, there are plenty of places with great autonomy or even shared sovereignty that, responding to the sides in conflict, solved the issues for mutual benefit. Quebec, the Basque Country, the Country of Wales, Hong Kong, etc. , as to keep on discussing sovereignty in absolute and primitive terms. These “examples”, taken from reality, might “inspire” the parties of this conflict.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -8
  • darragh

    Pgerman

    I’m sorry but there is no sovereignty problem with regards to the Falkland Islands except in the minds of nationalistic Argentines in as much as the Falkland Islanders, whether you like it or not are entitled to self-determination and they have made it abundantly clear via the referendum of a couple of years ago that they wish to retain their links with the UK

    In what way are the Falkland Islands an ‘anachronism’?. In what way is it a ‘remnant of an Empire’ that Argentina’s claim of ‘inheritance’ from another ancient (and far more corrupt) empire is not? The people of the Falkland Islands are self-governing with the exception of Foreign Policy and Defence which they happily leave in the hands of the UK.

    You do not have a shred of evidence to support your claim that ‘without the military and political support of the United Kingdom the current political status would not last a single minute’, that is pure wishful thinking on your part and in any case what makes you suppose that the UK will not continue to support them in exactly the same way that it supports the Isle of Man?

    The Chagos Islands as a comparison to the Falkland Islands are, as you well know a ‘poisson rouge’ which has been discussed time and again on these threads.

    There is no need to find a ‘creative’ solution to a problem that only exists in the minds of Argentine nationalists as part of their desired expansion of the Argentine South Atlantic Empire

    It’s always the arrogance of Argentines that amazes me when they assume that there is a problem to solve and that they should hold the whip hand in solving it.

    There isn’t a problem to solve and the future of the Falkland Islands has nothing whatsover to do with Argentina.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +8
  • gordo1

    Pgerman

    It is clear that your perception of the Falklands/Malvinas is wrong. First of all, there should be no comparison between the Falkland Islanders and the former inhabitants of the Chagos
    Islands - chalk and cheese!

    The history of the Falklands archipelago is a British history whilst the Argentine history of the (so called) Malvinas is nothing more than fairy stories, lies, and misunderstandings and misapplications of historial events.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • DemonTree

    “there should be no comparison between the Falkland Islanders and the former inhabitants of the Chagos Islands”

    Why do you say that, Gordo? I can see quite a few similarities, what do you think the big differences are that justify their very different treatment by the British government?

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • The Voice

    Here we go, DT's quisling mode once again. The world Police leased a base from us, the migrant workers were shipped off to a safe place with funds to resettle them which was misappropriated. But, the greater good was served and there is no comparison whatsoever.
    These tiny old colonial possessions enable the US and the UK to keep an eye on the local potential miscreants, although personally I would like to see Britain withdraw from that role.

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    They weren't migrant workers, they had lived there for several generations. But I suppose since you support our government so unquestioningly you'd be happy for the Falklanders to be shipped off to Britain if the 'World Police' decided they wanted a base down there?

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • Roger Lorton

    Sir Gerald Henry Elliot? Must be a quiet news week

    Feb 19th, 2018 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • The Voice

    DT's comments dont seem to have attracted much support.

    The detritis on South Georgia, an awesome place I would love to go back to.

    https://flic.kr/p/4q6fLM

    https://flic.kr/p/4q6fLM

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    If you won't listen to me, perhaps you will listen to Pete Bog (who I think is involved campaigning for the Chagos Islanders). This is what he had to say about them:

    ”There have ben several generations of Chagos Islanders born on the Chagos Islands. There are graveyards to prove this if you care to look. The fact they did not own the plantations is irrelevant. Several generations that have been there nearly, if not as long as the Falkland Islanders, whilst not being originally indigenous have lived on and been born in the Islands. Therefore if the Falkland Islanders have the right (regardless of whether in the past the FIC, previously the main employer,was not always based in the Islands) to live on the Islands (which they do), so have the Chagos Islanders, unless you are saying that every single generation of Chagos Islanders were shipped in?

    The Islanders kicked out of the Chagos, were not first generation islanders.

    In fact the same flawed argument that the Argentines apply to the Islanders.

    It is interesting to note that the British in WW2 operated RAF Diego Garcia, a Sunderland base without gassing the Chagos islander's dogs and expelling them from their homeland.”

    Dismissing them as contract workers is no better than the Malvinistas who dismiss the Falklanders as squatters.

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    From what I have seen that blubber processing plant could be very useful in Buenos Aires!

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pete Bog

    @Gordo1

    “ First of all, there should be no comparison between the Falkland Islanders and the former inhabitants of the Chagos
    Islands - chalk and cheese!”

    Why should there be no comparisons? Illegal? Not allowed? Who said?

    Here are a few. Please feel free to dispute them.

    The Argentines claim that the Falkland Islanders are a transplanted population.

    Harold Wilson's government in the late 1960s claimed that everyone working on the Chagos Islands (particularly Diego Garcia but presumably Peros Banhos and Salomon Islands as well) were a transplanted population. Some were bu most were born on the Chagos.

    In the late 1960s Harold Wilson's government attempted to sell the British Falkland Islanders out. The Islanders found out, formed the FIA and parliament insisted on self determination, so Wilson's(Brown/Stewart) plot failed.

    In the late 1960s Harold Wilson planned to sell out the British Chagos Islanders. He suceeded as it was kept secret from parliament.

    This is despite the Chagossians not wishing independence and waving the Union Jack/ singing God Save The Queen to visitors!

    The Falkland Islands economy in the 1960s was heavily reliant on a company run from overseas, the Falkland Island Company.

    Most of the workers were agricultural.

    The Chagos Islands economy (prior to the British buy out of the plantations), was heavily reliant on companies run from overseas.

    Most of the workers were agricultural.

    The Falkland Islanders currently wish to exist as a BOT and do not want Argentine Sovereignty.

    The majority of exiled Chagossians (led by Allen Vincatassin and the Chagos Islander Movement) wish to exist as a BOT and do not want Mauritian sovereignty.

    The Chagos Islands were uninhabited until the 1770s (by France-then a transfer to British sovereignty in 1814).

    The Falkland Islands were uninhabited until the 1760s, until occupied by France and Britain.

    “The history of the Falklands archipelago is a British history ....etc”

    Not disputing that.

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    But… its the ejection of the Chargossians that is the key point (many of them did leave willingly). No-one is suggesting displacing the Falkland Islanders, the turning point was the failed invasion and war. There is no way now that Britain will ever abandon the Islanders or the Islands.

    The Chargossian subject has merit for those unwillingly displaced and possibly inadequately compensated but it cannot be compared to Britains current or future policy towards the Falklands.

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @the Voice

    Many who left willingly were Mauritian and Seychellian workers.

    Without specific figures (demographics), yet, I can't argue with what you have said .I can post quotes disputing the transplanted myth.

    There were many Chagossians who did not want to leave because they had been permanent for several generations.( I appreciate they had tied accomodation).

    The Chagossians I have contacted (and I need to speak to more), say they had no objection to the airbase, merely that they were kicked off DG, but worse still, later evacuated from the outer islands.

    Many are upset because they are proud to be British, and had no intention of being a security risk to the USA.

    Some ask why they weren't asked to sign the British Official Secrets Act, and that if they lived on the outer Islands( Il du coin on Peros Banhos and Boddam on the Salomon Islands,) how could they have spied on the US base from 150 miles away with not even a pair of binoculars or radio between them?

    They point to the international yachtsmen squatting on the outer islands, that have permits to visit but abuse these due to the lack of US/UK patrols.The yachtsmen are more likely to be a security risk to the US than the Chagossians, who's objective is to return home, and build a local economy, to be self reliant after a few years, not to disrupt Britain's defence interests.

    Whilst they are sore about being kicked out, they say they have no intention of disrupting any military activities: that would be 'shitting on their doorstep' with the economic and employment opportunities the US base presents.

    They point to the fact that their parents and grandparents posed no security threat whatsoeverto the RAF base on Diego Garcia during WW2.

    “it cannot be compared to Britains current or future policy towards the Falklands”

    Not directly, but it applies to self determination of British peoples, who can't financially become independent, want to stay British and avoid sovereignty from other claimants

    Feb 20th, 2018 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Loong

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Feb 22nd, 2018 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Clem

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Feb 23rd, 2018 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • darragh

    Hi Clem, just home from school? how's the weather in California????

    Feb 23rd, 2018 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Argentina will finally twig they cant colonise the Falkland Islands within 25 years... ;-)

    Feb 23rd, 2018 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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