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Montevideo, November 16th 2018 - 01:15 UTC

A humanitarian triumph in the aftermath of war

Friday, March 30th 2018 - 22:16 UTC
Full article 84 comments

By Nicholas Tozer -Buenos Aires.
THE visit by over two hundred of Argentine next-of-kin to the Argentine Military Cemetery in Darwin in East Falkland earlier this week undoubtedly marks a new milestone in the so-often troubled relations between Argentina and Britain over the Falkland Islands dispute. Read full article

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  • Islander1

    Good article and correct. Yes a few on our side unwilling to differentiate between politics and a uniformed serviceman who dies following order doing his job. But masses of them on the Argentine side already starting their vigils and commemorations of the day the invaded a peacefull territory, turned innocent peoples lives upside down and started a war they then deservedly lost.
    Name me any other Country that does this?
    Sad to see even Argentine Boy Scouts in uniform getting involved - clearly they cannot read the basic rules of the International brotherhood of Scouting- it is an non-political organisation - well with the exception of in Argentina one assumes- shame on Argentine Scouts.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Roger Lorton

    The humanitarian side of this visit can only be welcomed by all, but those cynics amongst us will remember the words on the day by the President of Argentina's Commission of the Fallen that, despite promises to the contrary, no bodies could be repatriated because they already lay in Argentine soil.

    http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201803/264243-araujo-no-tenemos-nada-que-repatriar-porque-los-cuerpos-ya-estan-en-la-argentina.html

    Does that make me a zealot or does is just show others to be naive?

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Islander1

    Quite correct Roger. Sadly the family who have said they would like their family member returned to be buried near to them are unlikely to ever be able to do so - because Arg Govt and others prefer to play politics with their dead . It was a question that the ICRC promised us in the Falklands that would be asked by them privately to each family as they -ICRC- also felt it should be the choice of the family next of kin that is paramount.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Roger Lorton

    Islander 1 - Ambassador Mark Kent has said that there is more then one family requesting repatriation. He added that he trusts the Argentine Minister to follow up on those.

    My inner cynic says that the Ambassador is likely to be disappointed.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Brit Bob

    Two professional soldiers from counties that were at war in 1982, today work together to redress one of the unresolved consequences of a war that should never happened, but did....

    Blake suggests ''it may be the right word to describe the wants of Argentina is 'domination' rather than 'sovereignty'. She would have the islands with or without the present inhabitants (preferably without). Sovereignty connotes a degree of care over people in their cultural and physical lives.'' (Blake L. L., Sovereignty: Power Beyond Politics, London : Shepheard-Walwyn, p6, 1988).

    Falklands – Argentina's Sovereignty Aspirations (1 pg): https://www.academia.edu/34583696/Falklands_Argentinas_Sovereignty_Aspirations

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Islander1

    Roger - suspect you will be right. I suspect those families will be “leant on” by the media over there for a start.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @Islander1
    The 2nd of April is their veterans day. It does seem a strange choice, but let's assume the Scouts are there to honour all the Argentine service members, not the day of the invasion.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Think

    Mr. Timlander1...
    Just for your ilustration...

    1) What masses of “them” on the Argentine side are commemrating on the 2 April is called...:
    “Día del Veterano y de los Caídos en la Guerra de Malvinas”...
    Or..., in Engrish...:
    “Day of the Veterans and Fallen of the Malvinas War”...
    Not very different from the Yank “Memorial Day” or the Engrish “Remembrace Sunday”..., I Think...

    2) Shame on Argentine Boy Scouts !!!.., you proclame...
    O'really... I say...
    What about shame on Engrish Boy Scouts...?
    http://members.scouts.org.uk/newsandviews/module/31/127/register
    What about shame on Yankee Boy Scouts...?
    voiceofscouting.org/scouts-honor-veterans-country

    But I don't blame you...
    Besides being a Kelper..., you have a valid excuse for your monocular vision...

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -7
  • The Voice

    Gotta keep up the indoctrination and brainwashing of young people with respect to the Malvinas Myth. Especially as April 2nd is about celebrating the illegal 1982 failed invasion farce. You would Think they would want to forget it?
    When do they celebrate memories of the disappeared?

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    24th March

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Remembrance_for_Truth_and_Justice

    And similarly that is the anniversary of the day the coup brought the junta to power, not of the end of the military government.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Buenos Aires - 24th March 2018 - One week ago...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RgvBllJKOM4

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Roger Lorton

    It's starting to grate - the Argentine Military Cemetery is NOT in Darwin. The Darwin Cemetery has no Argentine dead in it.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/darwin-cemetery.png

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    When I was a Scout and attended Rememberance Day, it was remembering those who died in WWI, the Kaiser's invasion and the Nazi's invasion. And lately its been the War on Terror, The Taliban, Saddam, Assad and Daesh. Back then it was mainly about WWI. I believe, and most British people believe they were worthwhile causes. The war on Saddam proved to be a bad mistake just as the FO's retired 'Camel Corps' had warned with terrible consequences right across the Arab world. I suppose we had been somewhat brainwashed too.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Islander1

    Think - to have credence then they need to remove the direct reference to 2nd April 1982
    because that is what Argentina is indeed celebrating- the day Argentina started a war and attacked a small peacefull group of islands- yes in a dispute - but with negotiations actually ongoing as per the wishes of the UN General Assembly.
    Pretty damn blatant act of war. Tell me - was this day commemorated before 1982?
    Sorry - every country is entitled to a day to recall the sacrifices of their armed forces in conflict and self defence etc - in general - not aimed at a specific place and date - that is political - and WRONG!
    Yes 11 Nov started as remembrance of WW1 - but a WORLD War - not just the day one country started it! Hence now 11th Nov is about ALL wars.
    So sorry Argentine Scouts do indeed appear to be in breach of the general International Principles of Scouting.

    A better day surely to celebrate the sacrifice of Argentine Armed Forces would be 25th May - the day you started your Independence revolution.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. Timlander1...

    Allow me to help you again with your one eyed Anglo Kelper tunnel vision view of reality...

    1) As your British compatriot..., Mr. DemonTree..., very fittingly points above..., we Argies hold our ***“Remembrance Day for Truth and Justice”*** on the 24/03..., the anniversary of the darkest day when the coup brought the Junta to power..., and more than one Zealot celebrated it...
    Similarly..., we hold our ***”“Day of the Veterans and Fallen of the Malvinas War”*** on the 02/04..., the anniversary of the darkest day when the Junta started a ridiculous war..., and more than one Zealot celebrated it...

    2) Answering your question...:
    Nope..., this kind of “Veteran Day”..., was NOT commemorated before 1982 in Argentina...
    Maybe because of the fact that we..., luckily..., had no bellic experiences during the previous 100 years...

    3) The Boy Scout movement is an anachronic organization created by a military man to imprint the military “”Values” on young malleable minds..., you are right...
    So yes..., All Scout Organizations do indeed appear to be in breach of many Current & General International Principles of Humanity when commemorating ANYTHING that has to do with a war...
    Be them Yanks..., Engrish..., Boches..., Frogs... or Argies...

    Have a nice Sunday...
    El Think...

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    “Maybe because of the fact that we..., luckily..., had no bellic experiences during the previous 100 years...”

    Very lucky. Every village in Britain, even the tiniest hamlets, has a war memorial listing the names of the young men killed in another war that should never have happened.

    But I don't see what's so anachronistic about the Scouts. We never did anything at all militaristic when I was a member.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Twinkle has obviously never been a Scout which helps to explain his misunderstanding of Scouting, lack of moral compass and his Nazi overtones.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    Hey, that's unfair. Think is about 180, Scouting wasn't invented when he was young.

    I bet you had more fun as a Scout than I did. I'd rather have done militaristic stuff than what we actually did, which was not a lot most of the time. Eventually I got bored and quit.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Faulconbridge

    In fact, Argentina had quite a few bellic experiences during the previous 100 years before invading the Falkland Islands. They involved killing other Argentinians, though.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Yes..., Mr. DemonTree...

    The Victorian Christian Scout Movement..., as anachronistic as its Leninist atheist brother in arms...: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin_All-Union_Pioneer_Organization

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Islander1

    Think- we will have to disagree on this one, Scouting today and for many years is very non military- its non-political and multifaith - but proud of national values in each respective country.
    That is why it commemorates national days when those who gave their lives for their countries are respected. Am unaware of any nation that does such on the day it STARTED as war - except for Argentina of course.
    So you need to honour a different day to 2nd April - then your country will get some more respect. methinks Arg was involved in a war against little Paraguay less than 100yrs ago so 1982 was not your first.

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Roger Lorton

    As I was thrown out of the Cubs for fighting, I probably should not comment :-)

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. Timlander1...

    As I previously wrote...:
    ***“We..., luckily..., had no bellic experiences during the previous 100 years...”***
    Our shamefull war against Paraguay ended in 1870...
    Our ridiculous war against Engeland ended in 1982...
    In my word that gives 112 years without wars...

    But you are right... It was not our first..., before that..., we had to defend our territory four times (1806 / 1807 / 1833 / 1845-50) against them Engrish inavsor...

    We kicked you out on three of those ocasions...
    We failed on the one you are occupying..., as we speak...

    Secondly...,

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Roger Lorton

    Argentina did not exist in 1806 or 1807. Britain was defeated by Spanish colonists, led by a Frenchman.

    What defence was there in 1833? Only an Argentine could see total capitulation without a fight as a 'Defence' LOL

    Mar 31st, 2018 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Where did I mention “Argentina” in me above comment..., copper...?

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    Sorry, you said “We” ....... thought your ancestors were still herding Reindeer in 1806/07........... old man ;-)

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Islander1

    Think, Apologies - I thought Paraguay war was 1930s for some reason.
    As R0ger points out- Argentina did not exist in 1806-07- that was 100% an attack by UK on Spanish Territory- all part of the European war at the time but UK-Spain-France fought it all over the place.
    What happened in the 1845 period then- don't recall UK attacking Argentina?

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    Funny how them Anglos all agree that because Argentina first revolted in 1810..., the previous Engrish Pirate attacks of 1806 and 1807 against our territory can't be considered as Engrish Pirate attacks against our territories...

    Even more funny considering it is those very same Anglos that violently react when I tease them with our frequent flyer Viking visits to their territories during the Vlll'th..., lX'th..., X'th..., XI'th... and XII'th centuries..., in which we ate their sheep and herded their women..., many centuries before the United Kingdom even was thought of...

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    Argentina declared independence in 1816 Think, not 1820 - declaring for the Spanish King in fact. As for attainment, depending upon the criteria applied, Argentina achieved independence somewhere between 1825 and 1863.

    I have nothing against the Vikings - a little red hair remains down under :-)

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Americans and Canadians have the same argument about the war of 1812. For the US or Britain it feels very different trying to invade a colony of an giant empire, compared to trying to invade an independent country. But for the people living there there was not much difference, especially as in both cases they mostly defended themselves. (Except for your charming elites, who apparently thought being a British colony was much better than being a Spanish colony - though who can blame them, really?)

    As for the Vikings, you're trying to be offensive by boasting about it, not surprising that people get annoyed.

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    DT, Ging Gang Gooli, Gooli Gooli Watcha….. Scouting was great fun, doing all the badges, out in the open air, camping, I eventually became troup leader but at 14 girls beckoned, and I always shunned responsibility.

    Twinkle doesnt have any idea about Scouting and a personality that seems to be driven by envy, victim blaming and hate with a whiff of the Nazi ;-))) Perhaps the Hitler Youth is more his style and what he imagines Scouting to be?
    Whereas its the exact opposite!

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • saphira

    @DT there are 53 Thankful villages in Britain.
    Thankful Villages (also known as Blessed Villages)are settlements from which all their members of the armed forces survived World War I. 14 villages are considered “doubly thankful”, in that they also lost no service personnel during World War II.

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    Exact opposite? No, I'd say the Hitler Youth was the evil mirrorverse version, a good idea twisted into bad. I don't agree with you about Think, either.

    I thought you might have enjoyed Scouting more than me. It was fun when we did activities, but it became rarer and rarer. Cubs was better, maybe it was easier for them to entertain younger kids, or maybe the leaders had just lost enthusiasm over the years?

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    DT, Scout troops vary, my son volunteered for our village troop which was really lively when his son was in it, but as with everything else these days the self centred majority wanted all the benefits without participation.

    I linked a couple of Twinkle's more noxious posts to my friend Jorunde who lives on the nothern edge of Oslo. He hates Germans because of what they did to him and his family when they requisitioned the family farm in WWII. He says that many of the hated Skandinavian collaborators fled to Argentina after WWII , which of course backed tbe Nazis until it became clear the Allies had won. He thinks Twinkle may be a child of collaborators which would explain his hatred of the British and the constant taunts and whingeing about our South Atlantic and Antarctic posessions.
    Ratlines were a system of escape routes for Nazis and other fascists fleeing Europe at the end of World War II. These escape routes mainly led toward havens in Latin America, particularly Argentina, Paraguay, Colombia,[1] Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador and Bolivia, as well as in Switzerland.

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. Roger Lorton..., me dear Engrish copper in Siam...

    You say...:
    ***”Argentina declared independence in 1816 Think, not (sic) 1820“***

    I say...:
    Try to concentrate and read what's written...:
    In one comment I write...: ***”Our Territory“***..., you read it as...: ***”Argentina“***...
    In another comment I write...:*** ”First Revolted“***..., you read it as ***”Independence”***...
    Your haughty Engrish zealotry has..., since the beginning..., impaired your research...
    It seems that now it has started to impair your reading abilities... Get that checked with your Doc..., laddie...

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • gordo1

    THINK - just start thinking for a change!

    “The British invasions of the River Plate were a series of unsuccessful British attempts to seize control of areas in the Spanish colonial Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata that were located around the Río de la Plata in South America — in present-day Argentina and Uruguay. The invasions took place between 1806 and 1807, as part of the Napoleonic Wars, when Spain was an ally of Napoleonic France.”

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    https://flic.kr/p/niL19R

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Roger Lorton

    Think - you are rambling old man.

    Many Argentines, including Kohen, now claim that Argentina became independent in 1810.

    It is not so. Go learn.

    I heartily recommend - Argentina, 1516-1987: From Spanish Colonialism to Alfonsin by D. Rock published 1987

    He's an American, in case you were wondering ;-)

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • RICO

    Surely the day of the successful invasion of the Falkland Islands is no longer a suitable day for this commemoration. Perhaps you could choose the anniversary of one of your successful battles in the glorious campaign of the dessert or the anniversary of one of the Spanish defences of Buenos Aires against the British. There are probably less people around to complain about that.

    Apr 01st, 2018 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    This is a strange argument. Roger and Gordo1 both seem be trying hard to convince Think of things he never disagreed with, and I have no idea what the point of TV's photo was.

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    My point DT was and is that Argentina did not exist in 1806/07. Am I wrong?

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    Did India exist in 1945? It would seem really strange to say no. Not being independent isn't the same as not existing.

    Same with Canada, and they evidently feel the same way about the US invasion when they were still a colony. It makes me wonder when people in Canada, Australia, New Zealand stopped calling themselves British and started calling themselves Canadian etc.

    @saphira
    That's weird, your comment suddenly appeared.

    I didn't know about Thankful Villages, but I suppose it was statistically inevitable there would be some. I think they just reinforce my point though: of the ~16,000 settlements in Britain, only 53 did not lose any men in the war.

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    RICO

    “the successful invasion of the Falkland Islands” - what do you mean by making this statement?

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Perhaps he means when the Falklands was successfully invaded...d'oh..

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Doh! The successful invasion of the Falkland Islands occured on 2nd January 1833. Its been British ever since and will continue to be British.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Falklands.permanence.png

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    ...I want you to re-read that sentence and tell me what you think is wrong with it...
    Begin with the application of logic...and that which we must assume from it...

    Don't help him Roger...

    Apr 02nd, 2018 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jo Bloggs

    I successfully erected a new poly tunnel this weekend, or so I thought. Unfortunately it wasn’t well constructed: it didn’t have enough support, some of the pieces were flimsy, it was missing nuts and bolts and was left exposed to greater forces (wind and hail) which were inevitable.

    I guess it wasn’t actually successfully erected at all.

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cheiVabi8v

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • gordo1

    Voice

    Who “successfully” invaded the Falkland Islands? Certainly NOT Argentina - if that had been the case then they would have won the so-called way but they didn't!

    Can it be said of any nation ”they successfully invaded the Falkland Islands or (if you prefer) the Malvinas?

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @gordo1
    Ask The Voice with a 'The' instead, he's the one who thinks Britain successfully invaded them - implying they weren't British before 1833. (Doh.)

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Tell you..., Mr. Voice...
    That boy..., “DemonTree”... ain't the bluntest knife in the Engrish drawer...
    Not only does he easily catch your subtle ironies..., but has also our local bobby sweating...;-)

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Yeah, I know Mr. Think...

    I was thinking of including DemonTree...
    Should've, Could've, Would've...didn't...
    Now he's spoilt it...
    I knew you wouldn't...;-)

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
    I don't Think the young lad is up for the task..., Mr. Voice...
    Hard work to be “Middleman” in a synchronized stalion pantomime horse as ours... ;-)

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Sorry Voice, I thought TV was unlikely to respond and I got bored of waiting. Besides, you've ruined mine before now.

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Sweating Think? Why so?

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Sweating copper...! Ain't it hot season at your papaya ranch just now...?

    Now that we have some of the brainy Anglos around..., I wanted to ask...
    How's that “Skripal” Anglo brainwash story washing...?
    Awfully quiet about it lately...

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I heard on the radio earlier that the scientists at Porton Down can't say for sure where the nerve agent was manufactured. They still reckon it was Russia due to 'further intelligence', though. Perhaps they've shown what they know to those friendly countries who agreed to throw out some Russian diplomats (or for all I know, took the opportunity to throw out some Russian spies), but they haven't shown it to us.

    Oh, and Yulia Skripal has woken up. Wonder if she has anything to say?

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Yeah I was watching RT and Putin was meeting the Turk and making a big deal about it to the media...repeating what DemonTree just said...
    Apparently the UK has evidence that Russia have been stock piling it...or perhaps it's “highly likely”...

    Apr 03rd, 2018 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Wooooooooooooooooooooot...???

    Those scientists at Porton Down are some low lying Commie Nazi bastards if they now say that they can't say for sure where the nerve agent was manufactured....

    Just listen to what they told your dear Boris Johnson..., just a couple of weeks ago...
    Boris telling ze Gemans the whole truth between minute 04:30 - 06:00...:
    http://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-russias-position-in-skripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/av-43044378

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Heh, he said they were very sure, but he never said what of.

    It's interesting what he said about the difference between this and the Litvinenko case. If it's true that other countries were already pissed off at Russian activities, it explains the amount of support, which was much more than I expected.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Last I heard, it was not a scientist's job to identify a source of evidence. That was a job for the police ....... or other 'specialist' agencies.

    The allegation has received a surprising amount of support, and, I understand, they all saw the evidence first.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @“Poor” Twinky. 1806/1807. A badly-planned British military action against illegal penal colonists of a European power with which Britain was at war does not count as “we...defended our territory”. 1833. Curiously, the history books seem to show that it was Spanish penal colonists that were forced to leave. 1845-50. In this case, the history books show that the “argument” was actually with the French. There is no record of British forces ever landing. And, since the revolting penal colonists weren't recognised by Spain, they had no legal existence. They were what they have remained ever since, criminal, immoral, lying, perfidious thieves guilty of a whole range of crimes.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Don't be childish...

    The Deutsche Welle question to Tovarich Boris at minute 04:30 is clear and concise...:
    ***“ You argue that that the source of this ”Agent........ Novichock“ is Russia... How did you manage to find out so quickly...? ”***

    Tovarich Boris very clear and Etonian Posh answer was...:
    ***” Well... we... ahhh... I... we... I... ahhh... I interrogated very closely... as you can... this is soo... I mean... let me be clear with you....................... (one minute two seconds of blah..., blah..., blah...)........................ I mean... the people from Porton Down... the... the laboratory indeed they... they were absolutely categorically... I mean I asked the guy myself... I said... Are You Sure?... and he said... I have no doubt so I... ahhh................. blah..., blah..., blah...

    http://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-russias-position-in-skripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/av-43044378

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    1833 was a re-invasion. Captain Cook claimed the Islands for Britain years before but Spaniards and Frenchies moved in illegally, so, they needed to be finally chucked out. The Islands have been British ever since. Thats the way I see it and I think the ICJ would too.

    The Falkland Islands have sent a team to the Commonwealth Games.

    Having been to Eton Boris has the capability of expressing himself quite clearly. Pity Twinkle is so intimidated by it…?

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    As me dear Mom used to say to me...
    Porkies have very short legs..., my little Think...
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/04/skripal-poisoning-deleted-foreign-office-tweet-leads-to-awkward-questions

    Engrish brainwash anybody...?
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “Having been to Eton Boris has the capability of expressing himself quite clearly.”

    Yeah, I can tell: “Well... we... ahhh... I... we... I... ahhh... I interrogated very closely... as you can... this is soo... I mean... let me be clear with you...” Just imagine how incoherent he'd be if he'd gone to the local comprehensive like me.

    Think, you must know my opinion of Boris's honesty (and suitability for his current job) already.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Think's setting himself up for another fall - methinks ;-)

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Did Twinkle ever actually rise..?

    And while we are on tbe subject of Toffs…. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/beano-threatens-tory-jacob-rees-12301176

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Funny story. I don't know much about Jacob Rees-Mog, but most of my friends absolutely can't stand the guy. What's so wrong with him?

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Right..., copper...
    Think's setting himself up for another fal...,l like the Great Iraqi Comical Weapons Engrish brainwash...

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Jacob is a clever guy well tutored by his Dad who was a clever successfull investor and ex editor of The Times. A lot of folk are inverse snobs and adversely react to the accent. He's a conviction politician like Maggie was. Boris has flipped..

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Yes, that's true. For example, complaining that other people are boasting about their education if they mention having a degree, or saying they must be elitist because they managed to get a decent job and save some money instead of sitting around blaming immigrants for all their problems.

    I liked this comment on the article:

    “Genius move from the Beano. Unfortunately, he's come back with a gracious and witty response. That's the danger of this man. Charming, humorous, self-deprecating and thoroughly wrong about pretty much everything.”

    And Boris is a bloody liar, he should have stuck to presenting HIGNFY instead of screwing up our foreign relations.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Easy to see clearly who is actually being elitist!

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    I like Boris. He's an entertainer. I don't actually need an entertainer as Prime Minister mind.

    Apr 04th, 2018 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ko7veeSoof

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Huh? I didn't say you were being elitist, TV. You just seem to have a rather ambivalent attitude towards success, and you're a tad touchy on certain subjects.

    @RL
    I like Boris as an entertainer, I just wish he wasn't in politics.

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Its funny, Boris was a great MP, a lot of people say he failed as London Mayor, but perhaps they were the usual (negative) suspects. Now he is operating way beyond his capability and demonstrating clearly why he would be a disaster as PM.

    Full of admiration for this man whose house I visited today. The toffs wouldnt let him join the golf club, si he bought it! https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=horn+of+plenty+nuffield&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=misvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxiLab96PaAhVLIMAKHeWMAIAQ_AUIEigC&biw=768&bih=1024#imgrc=6GTT_QVoPLwDTM:

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Yes, that's why I said ambivalent. It's not that you hate all success, is it?

    So what is it? You accuse ordinary people of elitism, instead of the real elite, and you don't resent Boris's expensive, posh education. Seems you only object to success when it's people who don't think like you. Only people who agree with you can be allowed to be smart, hard working, prudent, etc.

    What d'you reckon, am I warm?

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I never thought about it, and don't really understand what you are on about? The things I admire most are achievements that help everybody, practical things that move everyone forward. I dont admire academic success. You dont need academic success to do anything. You need ability to get things done well. Lord Nuffield is a perfect example. Humble roots, ordinary schooling, a common touch that made him a great inovator and leader, with fantastic achievements. If someone has been to an expensive public school why resent that, its the luck of the draw. I know lots of folk who dont think like me who are smart hardworking and prudent like Gina Miller - an intelligent idiot. Being bright and successful doesnt mean you have common sense. In 20 years working for others I only ever worked for one person I admired and respected. What I learnt from him and learning from the not how to do it antics of the rest enabled me to run a successful and socially useful business for the last 15 years of my full time working life. You inhabit a parallel universe.

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I suspected you wouldn't have thought about it. I'm trying to understand why you feel the need to denigrate those who have academic success, or accuse one person of being an 'intelligent idiot' and not another. Everyone who supports Brexit gets praise from you, everyone who opposes it gets insulted ('intelligent idiot'). If you can't deny they are intelligent or successful, you accuse them of lacking common sense or being elitist.

    I suppose it means you're insecure about your decision or something, so you don't want to recognise that other people can have perfectly valid reasons for thinking differently. Better to invent something that makes their opinion not count, whether that's lack of common sense or being elitist. It's tiresome.

    And it's for the same stupid reason you say I'm living in a parallel universe. I don't imagine my life has been all that different from yours was up to my age, except that I respected the majority of the bosses I've had. I'm living in the same universe you are, just trying to get on with my life like everyone else.

    Apr 05th, 2018 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ui7aiPhaid

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Apr 06th, 2018 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Perhaps what I should have said is that I dont admire academic success on its own. Looking back with hindsight you could spot those people amongst my collegues who were going to shine, found great businesses or achieve lots. Its appalling that we are wasting so much money and young peoples lives in our Universities only for them to achieve nothing. I have kids with degrees and one with only 2 GCEs who is definately the top achiever. Always a rebel just like her Dad. With all the appalling untruthful slurs cast at Brexiteers its not surprising we cast a few back.

    Apr 06th, 2018 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    You can admire academic success without thinking it's the be-all and end-all. It takes a lot of work and it IS essential for some jobs like doctor or researcher or teacher. But there are plenty more jobs where it's just a hoop to jump through... it's probably still beneficial but not worth the cost in time and money no matter who pays. I've told you before I agree they are sending too many kids to university and putting too much emphasis on it at the expense of other skills; it was certainly pushed on us when I was at school and alternatives were not really talked about.

    But what are these 'appalling untruthful slurs' you feel have been cast at Brexiters? And by who?

    Apr 06th, 2018 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    By the elite, big business and academia. Racist, thick and myopic were the main ones.

    The reason alternatives were never talked about was because schools are full of teechers, mostly academics who despise industry as well as knowing nothing about it. Appalling!
    Wrong place to discuss this. neverloseit at gmx dot com

    Apr 06th, 2018 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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