MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, September 22nd 2018 - 21:30 UTC

Argentine Peso tumbles 7.83% to US dollar; central bank raises rate to 33.25%

Friday, May 4th 2018 - 09:00 UTC
Full article 105 comments

Argentina’s central bank raised its benchmark interest rate by 300 basis points to 33.25% percent on Thursday, but the second steep rate increase in less than a week failed to stop the country’s peso currency from swooning to a record low. The local currency tumbled 7.83% to 23 per U.S. dollar. It had hit 21.2 to the greenback on Wednesday, the first trading day due to a holiday after the bank hiked the rate to 30.25% from 27.25% on Friday. Read full article

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  • DemonTree

    This is bad news. Very bad news.

    May 04th, 2018 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Enrique Massot

    Bad news indeed. Especially for workers who see their earnings erode by the day...when you talk about those who still have a job.

    This collapse shows the greed and incompetence of a group of CEOs appointed by president Mauricio Macri to manage different departments with little coordination and lack of overall plan.

    The crisis hits less than two and a half years after “the best team of the last 50 years” was put in place. It happens after massive foreign borrowing at high interest rates, fiscal measures in favour of the wealthiest, massive capital flight, increasing dismantling of the domestic productive sector, imports opening that have left Argentina overexposed to international economic fluctuations.

    Macri will make predecessors Carlos Menem, Fernando de la Rua and even Videla and Galtieri look like amateurs, after having managed to deplete Argentina’s economy in just over two years.

    Sad end for another textbook case of free-market Latin American experiment.

    May 04th, 2018 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • ExPat 1987

    Great news lets hope this trend continues. Hope the whole country goes back to the stone age.... :-)

    May 04th, 2018 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • bushpilot

    There was mention of greedy and incompetent CEOs doing the economic planning now.

    Was it known that they were incompetent when they took office, and what criteria were used to determine their competence? Or have we just decided they are incompetent now?

    How does CFK minister of the economy, Alex Kiciloff, measure up to the same criteria used to measure the current economic managers competencies?

    Or, are we saying they are incompetent because we don't like free market economics?

    How is the Bolivarian non-free market economy performing in Venezuela?

    May 05th, 2018 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Enrique Massot

    @EP

    Don't count your chickens yet.

    ++++++++++++++++

    Boasting about fulfilled prophecies and say 'told you so' does not help. Too much tragedy and human suffering is at stake.

    President Mauricio Macri, with just half term in office, would still be able to change direction and avoid a catastrophe. He must immediately fire several ministers and put in the job one of some decent former economy ministers (not including Domingo Cavallo) who would be happy to help if given a strong mandate in an unified economy ministry (now diluted into four ministries).

    Macri must fire image promoters starting by denier-in-chief Marcos Peña. Next, abandon speculation and unleash real economic growth by supporting the country's productive forces. Macri must stop being in permanent election campaign mode and begin governing for all Argentines, understanding that when he took office he became responsible for the whole country--not just 1,000 wealthy families.

    After all, the president has so far depended on Peronist legislators to pass his most important pieces of legislation--he would probably be able to gather even more support for progressive measures benefiting workers, small and medium-size enterprises and the regional economies.

    Time to ditch ideology for the benefit of the most.

    May 05th, 2018 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • The Voice

    Another diatribe of decidedly dodgy economic criticism from a hypocrite safely ensconsed in a wealthy Commonwealth country. People who really care about their country stay with it and work there to make it better.

    May 05th, 2018 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • bushpilot

    “Too much tragedy and human suffering is at stake.”

    And yet never a word about Venezuela.

    May 05th, 2018 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • javiernyc

    Posters on this site exhibit a weak, limited and uninformed understanding of fiscal and monetary policy making and financial crises. The cause of last week’s ‘run’ on the ARS was entirely political, and the Macri administration bears much of the blame for:

    - waffling on granting Central Bank (“BCRA”) full monetary policy independence last December
    - attempting to placate an anxious and worried populace with ‘gradualist’ fiscal reforms, rather than ‘shock’ reforms

    However, both BCRA and the core policy team in the Macri administration executed a close-to-flawless response to last week’s explosive events. The financial markets lost their patience with Macri’s wishy-washy progress and panicked with the prospect of a K-led BS measure to limit the government’s energy and public service pricing liberalization to market-based levels.

    Market agents wanted to explicitly call-out the administration’s failure to control ‘crazy-K’ and her irresponsible proposals. Guess what? K and her legislative ‘bancada’ have no real ideas, or solutions, so Dujovne and Co. were able to remind all interested parties the government’s reform agenda is in effect and, in fact, will intensify this year, with sub-3.0% Fed deficit/GDP planned.

    The BCRA jacked overnight rates to a mouth-watering 40%, over 3 moves, in less than one week. Argentina had never responded in such a coordinated, and calculated, manner to prior panics.

    Sturtzenegger (who executes BCRA’s own decisions, not the administration’s), Dujovne, and even battle-hardened legislators like Carrio forming the team are implacable and fully understand what is at stake.

    Thatcher’s 1970’s and 1980’s labor and and privatization reforms were a total ‘walk-in-the-park’ compared to the measures this government is undertaking.

    May 05th, 2018 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    Denial and deflection clearly at work with a “Bushpilot” trying to blame former economy minister Axel Kicilloff (out of the job for over two years) and remarks about a totally different country.

    These commentators are either totally in the dark about or are just part of an army of trolls desperately attempting to divert the attention from a serious crisis facing Argentina.

    What’s more, both TV and BPilot have responded without reading my previous posting, which called for a compromise of all parties to rescue Argentina from sure freefall. “Another diatribe,” cavalierly dissmisses TVoice, who clearly did not read the post.

    The callousness, shallowness and belligerence of these commentators is amazing. They failed to even address the post they cavalierly dismiss.

    Moreover, “never a word about Venezuela,” noted BPilot in another illuminated posting.

    How childish. Should I have included the situation in Tajikistan and Haiti by any chances?

    Now, in response to recycled “javiernyc” post: Do you know what sort of business could be so profitable as to be able to take loans at your “mouth-watering” 40 per cent interest rate?

    This short-term, desperate measure may cool a bit the run to the dollar, but will deepen Argentina’s current situation into a full-blown recession.

    No wonder Forbes told foreign investors it's time to run from Argentina.

    May 05th, 2018 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • javiernyc

    Enrique, may surprise you, but Argentina has been facing a ‘serious crisis’ over the past 5 years, since K’s craziness threw the republic into a black hole. Macri & team have been scrambling to claw out of this nightmare since entering office 30 months ago.

    BCRA rate hikes will, indeed, throw the nation into full-blown recession if they need to last indefinitely to placate anxious investors. Sturtzenegger knows this, of course. Again, the solution is entirely political, meaning it must originate from congress in the form of ratified policies, rather than BCRA market mandarins.

    Here is where the ‘rubber hits the road’. The administration knows they must perform on fiscal expectations. Government activity represented 42% of GDP when Macri walked in the door. This is now 38%, still astronomical, with a stated 32% goal by 2023. This will only manifest itself if private sector-led growth accelerates, which itself is a function of ‘confidence’. Private economic agents constantly weigh risk vs. opportunity. Last week clearly exposed a high degree of volatility many thought had been vanquished. The administration knows they must consistently push their measures forward, no matter what. Everyone knows this involves risk and uncertainty. Macri knows this better than anyone.

    BTW, the other posters here have no clue what they are talking about.

    May 05th, 2018 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • bushpilot

    Exactly what in the above posters' comments indicate they are speaking of things they don't know about? Which statements exactly led you to surmise that?

    I'll say this about Argentina's current economic problems and moving forward, if they go back to Kirchnerism they will suffer more like Venezuela is.

    May 05th, 2018 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    @ Jnyc

    Appreciate your detailed explanation--let's see if I interpreted correctly your arguments:

    “Government activity represented 42% of GDP when Macri walked in the door (and it has) a stated 32% goal by 2023…This will only manifest itself if private sector-led growth accelerates.”

    If I read the above correctly, what needs to happen is that private-led growth increases, thereby reducing government’s share of the activity.

    Now, besides some construction activity fueled with borrowed funds, there are no incentives to productive activities which makes closing productive enterprises and investing in short-term financial instruments or just importing merchandise a much more attractive option.

    “Private economic agents constantly weigh risk vs. opportunity.”

    Exactly! So what incentives has the government implemented to convince private economic agents to invest in domestic productive activities?

    “Last week clearly exposed a high degree of volatility…the administration knows they must consistently push their measures forward, no matter what.”

    Sure! So, besides the short-term measures implemented to respond to the volatility, what’s the plan to provide long-term stability and genuine growth?

    “BCRA rate hikes will, indeed, throw the nation into full-blown recession…the solution is entirely political…in the form of ratified policies…”

    “Ratified policies” sounds pretty much like an overall plan for the Argentine economy and it would be nice for society to know what the next steps as well as what the long-term goals are.

    As far as I know, the Macri government has failed to show any such plan.

    May 06th, 2018 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • javiernyc

    Enrique, investigate a bit more. “Ratified plans” result from POLITICAL activity, meaning a vote in congress and ratification by the president. You know this administration has targeted:

    - labor reform and liberalization, not there yet
    - market-based pricing for energy and services
    - continued wholesale privatization

    In addition, the government has a slew of education reform, property title grants, public-private infrastructure projects, intellectual property reform, and social integration initiatives it is implementing. This government has been sprinting for 30 continuous months, desperately trying to execute these measures which, if fully implemented, will indeed create the necessary environment for private sector-led expansion. BTW, just look at the number of world-class air carrier operators developing commercial plans for the country, including Avianca, Norwegian, FlyBondi (FlyBaboo founder), and Irlandia Group’s JetSmart (also behind Viva Colombia + Peru).

    Property investment is always the first sector targeted for private investment, as it is ‘easy low-hanging fruit’. Investments in transportation, information technology, digital media and marketing, retail-ecommerce, energy, power, infrastructure, and agriculture will naturally take more time. These ‘commercial investors’ are precisely the groups most focused on policy hiccups, like K-bancada’s irresponsible statements over price controls last week. The volatility originated over POLITICAL concerns; meaning economic agents were assessing the probability of continued liberalization vs. K-led ‘spanner in the works’ to screw things up.

    Investors do not have an issue with Macri’s plan. They have an issue with that crazy lady trying to stop his agenda via POPULISM. If people haven’t figured it out yet, populism never works.

    May 06th, 2018 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Enrique Massot

    @Javiernyc

    Thank you Javier for posting clear arguments.

    In a nutshell, you are asking for more of the same from a government that has managed to put Argentina at the edge of a cliff in less than 30 months.

    Your point of contention is, “K’s craziness threw the republic into a black hole” and Macri and his team have been trying to fix that.

    This is surprising considering the Macri government was able to go on a borrowing frenzy because of the relatively low debt levels left by the CFK government. What Macri and his team really did with over US$70 billion in two years will be a matter of future – perhaps forensic - studies.

    “Investors do not have an issue with Macri’s plan,“ you argue, but ”have an issue with that crazy lady trying to stop his agenda via POPULISM.” Then you argue that Macri just needs more time to achieve his plan.

    Oh-my-gosh.

    Are you asking for ‘more of Macri’ when many believe the run on the dollar may not have ended and everybody is bracing for Monday?

    Sorry Javier. This is no a good situation for our country people. I do understand the government team's denial. I don’t see where yours is coming from.

    May 06th, 2018 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • javiernyc

    Enrique, 2017 fiscal deficit exceeded ARS 617 billion, approaching 6% GDP, very high indeed. But, don’t blame Macri for this, as was associated with existing pre-Cambiemos policies. Hacienda eliminated over 27% enterprise subsidies compared to prior year.

    Clearly, fiscal spending IS THE ISSUE feeding current market volatility. Again, this requires a POLITICAL solution, something Macri & Co. have been trying to accomplish.

    They could have tried to crash spending a year ago but that requires congressional consensus, doesn’t it? BCRA could have goosed rates in December when Sturtzenegger wanted, and this is the one poor decision entirely blamed on the administration.

    However, arguing the nation’s problems resulting from fiscal deficits are Macri’s fault, without taking into account national political reality smacks of delusion.

    May 06th, 2018 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Estimado Sr. Massot (el bueno...;-)

    I evaluated earlier on to answer some of Mr. Javiernyc's most fawlty neocon arguments from above..., and ask him a couple of captious questions..., but his haughty insulting style just put me off...

    It would surely be as unproductive as discussing human rights with your ginger nephew Nicolas... ;-)

    Enijáu..., as true predicative assertions are isomorphic to reality..., here is some reality..., directly from Clarin... ;-)
    https://www.clarin.com/politica/60-gente-cree-economia-pais-peor-ano-pasado_0_H1ww09sTf.html

    El Think...

    May 06th, 2018 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • javiernyc

    Sr. Think,

    No one has ever characterized my writing, or demeanor, as ‘haughty’, so disappointed anyone would describe my posts as such. Rather than ‘neocon’, the liberalization policies Macri (and Pinera, and Macron) are implementing are ‘neo liberal’, steeped in an appreciation for the power of free markets and ideas.

    All here should hope for Macri’s continued success in implementing sorely needed policies. The alternative would be disastrous.

    May 07th, 2018 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    @Jnyc

    So, you are proposing that after 30 months of Macrist measures that have brought the country to the verge of financial disaster Argentines should still blame the Kirchners for the fiscal deficit.

    Well. At this point most people and even Clarin and La Nacion have pretty much abandoned the theory of the ‘pesada herencia,’ or ‘heavy inheritance.’ That may’ve been effective during the first semester or even the second, but it’s kind of a stretch to keep it going forever.

    You propose that Macri attempts to introduce “liberalization policies…steeped in an appreciation for the power of free markets and ideas.”

    I am going to tell you a secret. There is little free market in Macri’s program. In fact, there is not much capitalism in it. Macri has benefited the large landowners who dream of a return to Argentina’s golden age of the early 20th century, when agri-food exports made a few extremely wealthy leaving most others poor or very poor. He also benefited a few large corporations, the bankers and the financiers but not much else. Why?

    Because Macri may be Macri from dad, but from mom he is a Blanco Villegas, a Tandil-based well-off, traditional family from which he inherited his ideological basis that propose Rafael Videla was a saviour and the poor are poor because they don’t want to work.

    That is why this president has taken record holiday time since in office but still can tell Argentines with a straight face that they should work Saturdays and Sundays, “so that we can all ‘together’ pull the country forward.”

    There is nothing, in Macri’s program, for the small and medium-size businesses, nothing for the regional economies.

    The planned labor reform, market-based pricing for energy and services and wholesale privatization are all regressive measures, designed to concentrate wealth in the upper layer of society, siphoning it from most of the population.

    Macri is an unfortunate mix of greed and incompetence.

    May 07th, 2018 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Oh dear. Don't you know neo-liberal is a dirty word in Latin America, JavierNYC?

    @EM
    Is chairman of a football club a common career path for the traditional Argentine elite?

    May 07th, 2018 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    The only thing Macri has struggled with is the economic mess left by his predecessor KFC. In the early 20th century Argentina was one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The brain dead Peronists destroyed the economy and constructed the Malvinas Myth to distract the populace. Result - the current dire situation…

    May 07th, 2018 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Well..., well..., well...

    Market opens in under a couple of hours..., with two quite interesting novelties...:

    Firstly...:
    All banks in Argentina have been obliged by the Macri administration to sell 2/3 of their U$D tenures..., starting today...
    This will..., perhaps..., give the besieged Macri government a couple of days respite...
    Funny..., I happen to remember that when my boy Kicillof..., as economy minister of the previous administration obliged the banks to reducs 1/5 of their U$D tenures..., he was called a filthy stealing Trotskyst Stalinist Marxist Communist..., and other such niceties by...: Macri & Co.

    Secondly...:
    Very strong..., quasi official rumours..., are saying that the Argie Central Bank will very soon start selling “Dollar Futures” to try to stabilize the Dollar...
    Funny..., I happen to remember that the Macri administration has ongoing judicial procedures against my boy Kicillof..., Ex Central Bank president Mr.Vanoli and Ex Presidenta and potranca de luxe Mme. Kirchner for having sold “Dollar Futures” to stabilize the dollar...

    Interesting times ahead for Macri & Co...., I Think...

    May 07th, 2018 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • The Voice

    Jupppppppppppppp

    More 'wisdom' from the Twinkle Vegetable, the Mangle Worsel that believes the way to become wealthy is to steal other peoples property whilst doing nothing useful whatsoever.

    Chuckle chuckle

    May 07th, 2018 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    @ El Think

    Right...funny how the Macri government was caught on its own devices: The Dollar Futures is an efficient tool to quell runs on the dollar, but they made that action “criminal” (through judge Bonadio not less) in their lust to get our dear potranca CFK out of circulation...so now they would need to extinguish the Illegal association and public administration fraud in order to enable the use of the procedure by the Macri administration.

    Another interesting thing was Hacienda minister Nicolas Dujovne's announcement that Argentina won't be borrowing a planned USD$ 25 billion in 2018, by the same token reducing planned public works for USD$ 30 billion to reduce the fiscal deficit to 2.7 per cent from 3.2 per cent.

    Well. Public works done with borrowed money was one of the few things the Macri government could claim it was doing.

    On the other hand, it appears Dujovne made the decision not to borrow after being told nobody would lend anymore money to Argentina. Investors are of course worried the country has already taken a lot of debt.

    I too Think interesting times lie ahead for the “best team of the last 50 years.”

    May 07th, 2018 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

    A bit over an hour before The Market closes..., and the Yankee dollar is going up... despite them Banksters being forced out of the speculative buying game... and the virtual expropiation of some 3,000,000,000 U$D they are obliged to sell during the next couple of days...

    I Think Macri &Co. are finding out how it feels to be The Market ex daahling...
    Interesting times ahead for Macri & Co...., I Think...

    May 07th, 2018 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Enrique Massot

    They put a few patches and today they praise themselves 'cause the dollar closed at “just” 22.28 pesos and not at 23.30 as it did last week.

    In any event, it looks like the foreign investment pipeline is now closed--Argentina has borrowed like there was no tomorrow for over two years and investors are prudently refraining from feeding the beast.

    President Mauricio Macri will go down in history as the quickest (just shy of 30 months) to put the country on its knees.

    Some record to be proud of.

    May 08th, 2018 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    I can see that our new verbiagic ¿Argie.? “NeoLiberal” poster.., Mr. Javiernyc..., seems to have lost interest in discussing Argie politics with us..., zurditos de mierda...

    I wish for him three things...:
    1) That he learns to use the letter “Ñ” when writing about Shilean President Piñera...
    2) That his Argie NeoLiberalism ain't the same as the auld Argentinean PaleoLiberalism...:
    ...... https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=96s&v=d2R0OTMlMaQ
    3) That he gets a long, fructiferous life with time to Think about the things that really matter...

    May 08th, 2018 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Hopefully he'll come back, since he's more interesting than most of the Macri supporters here, but do you really think he's Argentine? I'd guess he's not.

    How bad are things there, really? Macri's showing himself as a hypocrite by using the same measures he condemned the previous government for using, but that means the previous government had the same problems, and you and EM didn't say Argentina was on its knees then.

    May 08th, 2018 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    To make a looooong story short..., seen from a down to earth dog perspective down here in Patagonia...

    In December 2001..., Argentina was like a skinny hungry dog lying on its back..., with all four paws in the air..., its empty belly bloated...

    In December 2003..., Argentina was like a snuggling dog liking its wounds and gaining some weight...

    In December 2010..., Argentina was a standing healthy dog wagging its tail...

    In December 2015..., after years of deep crisis in the global kennel..., Argentina..., by now a debtless but grumpy Argentinean dog..., decided to swap dog whisperer...

    Today..., for the Argentinean dog dismay..., it realises that its new elected whisperer is a... cat...

    https://www.mildberry.com/upload/iblock/02a/Mauricio_2.jpg... MACRI GATO

    May 08th, 2018 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    I feel very sorry for the ordinary Argies caused by their continuing financial woes. I hope that things get better for them soon as they work their way out of this mess.

    May 08th, 2018 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    As we speak..., the Neoliberal Communist Macri & Co. administration... has summoned all oil companies in Argentina..., demanding them not to raise fuel prices during..., at least..., 60 (sixty) days...

    What a lovely bunch of Marxist-Leninist Neo-Liberals they are...!
    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    May 08th, 2018 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    You sound so happy about it....

    Also please don't put dots on the end of your links, it breaks them.

    May 08th, 2018 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    YESSSS...

    El Think IS happy...

    He IS happy that this infected abscess finally has began to suppurate...

    He IS happy that the immoral 100,000,000,000 U$D indebting (in just two short years) of my Country by this NeoCons/NeoLiberals/NeoBullshitters came to an end sooner than later...

    He IS happy tha his compatriots will have the chance to see through the Bullshitters lies and vote accordingly in 2019...

    PS...
    The Market just opened... Dollar up 1%...
    I must confess I put the dots to make you work..., you lazy Engish lad...
    Nice British Blue kitty... huhhh...? ;-)

    May 08th, 2018 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Tarquin Fin

    24 pesos to 1 dollar, that should have happened 4 years ago.

    I really don't know what all the hassle is about. Now it's too late. It'll be 30:1 by the end of the year.

    Too bad they didn't correct it on time. It was Think's boy Kiciloff fault, It is now Macri's fault.

    Neither the zurdos or the CEOs seem to grasp the real cause of these cyclical runs.

    May 08th, 2018 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    'Putting the country on its knees' is acceptable collateral damage, huh?

    PS. Suuuure you did. And I'm not lazy, I'm one of the few people here who bothers to do any research and check the facts. Anyway, you can keep Macri, we have plenty of useless politicians of our own.

    May 08th, 2018 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Che pebete...

    Tu amigo Macri acaba de anunciar un blindaje financiero del FMI por 30.000.000.000 palos verdes...

    Mi memoria..., que según algúnos imberbes..., miente..., miente y miente como Göbbels me da hoy una cierta sensación de Déjà Vécu sobre un blindaje financiero del FMI por 40.000.000.000 palos verdes...

    Ahhhhh.... Siiiii... Diciembre del 2000... ***“ Qué lindo que es dar buenas noticias...”***
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9YEyoaKEM

    May 08th, 2018 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    Inflation halved , growth up 5%, unemployment down.

    Macri's doing a fine job sorting out Cristina's mess.

    Whats not to like?

    May 08th, 2018 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    What, apart from the trade deficit, the massive borrowing, the currency crisis, and now turning to the IMF coughwongacough?

    May 08th, 2018 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    Think,

    Don't you read what I post?

    A 30 bn credit line is irrelevant. I'm not trying to fight you. You are just happy because somehow the failure of this govt validates you.

    Like what “The Voice” said, and I quote: “I feel very sorry for the ordinary Argies”. Ditto.

    Things would be so much better for all of us “Ordinary Argies” if our politicians had ceased many years ago to make us believe that we can enjoy a “cheap” dollar.

    That idea is a like drug 100 times worse than Paco. Yet people here gets hooked on it time after time.

    We want “Plata dulce”, “Primer Mundo”, new car, caviar, four star daydream
    Think I'll buy me a football team.

    May 08th, 2018 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    Argentina must wean itself off imports for a bit and work hard at generating exports. Its a very lucky country, massive natural resources, can be virtually self sufficient. As Tarquin said dont be fixated on currency.

    May 08th, 2018 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Sr. Tarquin Fin...

    Don't YOU read what I post...?

    I am happy because todays' failure of this govt. has spared all of us some 100,000,000,000 extra U$D indebtment at ~9% interest rate than Macri & Co. happily would have subscribed till December 2019...

    I completely agee with you about the negative effects on quite a few of us of the “Cheap Dollar“..., Plata Dulce”..., “Primer Mundo”..., ” New Car“..., ”Caviar“..., ”Five Star Daydream“..., et al. addiction...

    But..., you should know..., If you read what I post..., that we completely disagree about what the ***”Ordinary Argies”*** are..., and want...

    Inmy universe..., ***“Ordinary Argies”***, aka...: ***” La Negrada ”***, aka...: El 60%..., would be more than happy with some Techo...,Tierra... y Trabajo...

    No more...
    No less...

    May 08th, 2018 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Ah, those 'ordinary Argies'. Not including Tarquin Fin, Think, Enrique, or one single other poster on here. Do you believe the other 40% should be satisfied with the same, Think?

    May 08th, 2018 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    Think,

    Don't get feisty on me.

    “Inmy universe..., ***“Ordinary Argies”***, aka...: ***” La Negrada ”***, aka...: El 60%..., would be more than happy with some Techo...,Tierra... y Trabajo...”

    I agree with you on that. But it also happens that a great many in that 60% will want to send their kids to Disney, get “alta llantas” (expensive sneakers), buy a new car, the latest samsung galaxy or iphone, and a long list of etceteras.
    Meanwhile their roofs are leaking and they eat shit and get diabetes and don't give a fuck about learning something new. Until one day their shitty jobs are no more and they get to the streets blaming whoever because they cannot pay their credit cards or the car installments. Sadly, their roofs will still be leaking.

    So I'm not talking about the upper 40% that are a big part of the problem. I'm talking about the middle 30% of the rest of us that suffer delusions of grandeur and are also a big part of the problem.

    That is the 30% that also refers to the lowest 30% as “La negrada” but the minute they can take debt to buy things they do not actually need, they feel like actually they've finally made it.

    Just take a swoop at any important conurbation and you will see what kind of values most of we, “Ordinary Argies” regard the most.

    May 08th, 2018 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Enrique Massot

    Today we know how the Argentine government is planning to keep going in spite of investors unwilling to lend a single additional dollar to the country.

    And what the solution is?

    You guessed it! Going to the IMF for more borrowed money.

    Mauricio Macri did it in just 30 months.

    He took office when the country was no longer “in the world” as he said, vowing to “return Argentina to the world.”

    He did it, and so well, today Argentina is again an international pariah. Investors of all kinds are clogging the exit door in their hurry to flee to more friendly landscapes.

    So much for a president who was going to solve the Argentina inflation in a week and then eliminate poverty (he never said in how much time).

    Well: at least, Macri said, we can now rely on the INDEC. Phiuuuuh!

    May 08th, 2018 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    It's official now...

    For the first time in the Macri era..., they are selling Dollar Futures to try to stabilize the Argie currency...

    Hard to see how they will now keep those criminal charges up against my boy Kicillof and Mme. Kirchner..., a.k.a...: La Potranca Deluxe..., for selling Dollar Futures to try to stabilize the Argie currency...

    Maybe they were “different” Dollars...?

    May 08th, 2018 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    It all depends on the price these futures are offered. They will still feel the effects of spitting towards the sky.

    May 08th, 2018 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Doesn't it also depend on the price when the futures are redeemed? Which was under the control of Macri.

    May 08th, 2018 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Pebete...

    Those futures are being sold today..., in 2018..., at the price the Argie Central Bank considers appropriate...

    Exactly as they were being sold in 2015..., at the price the Argie Central Bank considered appropriate...

    Last time ...,it was almost exclusively Macri & Co. people that bought those Dollar Futures..., won the election..., devalued immediately the Argie currency some 40%... and cashed a quick 40% profit...

    Wonder if they will dare to repeat the success...?

    May 08th, 2018 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    DT,

    In 2015 futures where offered at 10:1 when the “blue” or street dollar was 15:1. At least 33% difference. A shorter's wet dream come true!

    As I have heard today, these new futures will be offered no lower than 21:1 with a single market valuation of let's say 24:1 and a difference of 12 something %.

    It is risky for the govt to go long on these futures. If they manage to cover in a month or so they will make it just in time before the world cup. I can clearly see where some of the IMF money will go into.


    Think,

    I really hope you are not getting your technical analysis from Pagina/12.

    May 08th, 2018 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    What “technical analysis”... pebete...?

    May 08th, 2018 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    “A shorter's wet dream come true!”

    True, CFK was trying to stop the tide coming in. But it's easy to make the dream come true once the shorters' friend is in the Casa Rosada. Now the tide is rising for Macri...

    May 08th, 2018 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    You're right. However Kiciloff left the hefty tab to be picked up by the next govt and this time it is the same govt who will pick up the tab. Both actions do imply significant moral differences.

    Think,

    I consider that resorting to this kind of “dollar futures” trick is desperate at best, but let's consider your analysis:

    “Those futures are being sold today..., in 2018..., at the price the Argie Central Bank considers appropriate...

    Exactly as they were being sold in 2015..., at the price the Argie Central Bank considered appropriate..”

    That's like your kid going “Don't worry Dad, I will only use the credit card for emergencies.”

    There's quite a semantic gap between what a Dad and a 19 y'old would define as an “emergency”.

    May 08th, 2018 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Neither of those emergencies were created by outside events though, were they? Both governments must have mismanaged their finances to get to the position of needing a 'desperate' trick.

    Incidentally, I had a credit card at 19 and never used it. How about you?

    May 08th, 2018 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. Tarquin Fin...

    Are you seriously trying to tell me that you THINK that a legally and democratically elected Government of ANY country MUST use a fringe..., marginal..., illegal..., often criminal black currency market rate as their STANDARD to define and decide its economic policies and actions..., pebete...?

    That would be REALLY a crime deserving persecution...!

    Are you having a cold turkey after your ”Cheap Dollar“..., Plata Dulce”..., “Primer Mundo”..., ”New Car“..., ”Caviar“..., ”Five Star Daydream“..., et al. addiction.......... or what...?

    May 08th, 2018 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Tarquin Fin

    Your right again. We've shitted in our own pants once again.

    I got my first credit card when I was 25. And sure used it for all kind of “emergencies” but all of that came out of my own nickel.

    May 08th, 2018 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Despabiláte..., Don Fulgencio...
    Sonás como la Chiqui Legrand..., hace como sin-cuenta años..., bitching contra las antenas de televisión en las villas...

    Despabiláte..., Don Fulgencio...
    Solo esta semana..., los capomafia de la cana federal y provincial salieron a decirnos en la jeta..., que la cantidad de negros chorros afanando para morfar está en franco aumento...

    Despabiláte..., Don Fulgencio...
    Dejando un momento a la negrada de mierda de lado..., miremos un poco a MI grupo social...
    Somos como unos 8.000.000 de giles...,que nos levantamos durante cuarenta o mas años a las seis de la matina para ir a laburar hasta las nueve de la sera...
    5.000.000 de nosotros cobran en 2018 la mínima ...: ~332 Dolares...
    Hace solo tres añitos..., en el 2015 cobraban unos...: ~442 Dolares...
    El plan del FMI es volver a la minima del 98, o sea ...: ~150 Dolares...
    http://www.bancomundial.org/es/news/feature/2015/02/09/jubilarse-a-los-65-inalcanzable-para-millones-de-latinoamericanos

    Vós seguí nomás..., hablando de los Samsunges Galácticos y de las Nike Jordan de los gronchos reventados...
    La cuestion es qué..., si esto sigue así..., dentro de poquitito..., nosotros..., los 8.000.000 de “abuelitos”..., si queremos comer..., vamos a tener que salir a afanar..., junto a la negrada...

    May 09th, 2018 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Really till 9 at night? But that article doesn't say anything about the IMF reducing pensions, only that they want you to work longer, which is true in all countries.

    Also, why Don Fulgencio?

    @TF
    Turns out you should use your credit card so that you have a credit rating, which you need for loads of things later.

    As for the using the black market rate, surely the mistake was in keeping the currency so artificially high that there is a black market rate in the first place. If the official rate was more realistic they would have been able to offer the dollar futures at a more realistic rate too.

    Going to the IMF seems like an admission that this emergency is worse than the last one though, especially considering Argentina's previous experience with that esteemed organisation.

    May 09th, 2018 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    This is between Don Fulgencio and I..., laddie...
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8c/26/9e/8c269ec85fc8663d9812bc5289c78c91.jpg

    May 09th, 2018 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Okay, but you're smart and you have a degree, you didn't have to do some crappy job with long hours that doesn't pay for a pension.

    May 09th, 2018 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    That's why..., if you cared to read what i wrote..., (“cobran”, not “cobramos” / “cobraban”, not “cobrabamos”)... I did NOT include meself into the 5,000,000 Argie pensioners that get the minimum pension...

    That doesn't mean that I are any less solidarian with their plight...

    May 09th, 2018 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    All SA currencies are having a hard time not just Argentina. The Cristina currency prop has finally collapsed and reality is hitting home. As TF points out, time for the average Argie to get grafting and save the economy. So no more iPhones or Samsung S9s. Surely Argieland can produce a home constructed version, something like this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1990+brick+phone&oq=brick+1990&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.16935j1j8&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=4tsnYckuiY6EGM:

    And, an Argieland Mythical Malvinas theme park with milk and honey instead of a currency burning trip to Disney?

    Its hard to Think of a more solidarian than the Twinkle Vegetable?

    The Peso plunge will continue unless there are fundemental changes.

    May 09th, 2018 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Okay. I've never seen 'cobrar' before and since you wrote 'nosotros' I thought it might be one of those backwards verbs (sorry don't know the technical term) where the 'they' refers to people giving the money, not the people receiving it.

    PS. If you're going to complain about me not understanding verb conjugations you should try and get your own right. Surely you must know it's 'I am', not 'I are'?

    May 09th, 2018 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    @The Voice

    I'm all for tightening our belts, but I wouldn't go so far as returning to brick phones.

    @Think

    I believe your solidarity is sincere. I'm having kind of a sad day today. I guess Grim would describe it better.
    The problem with the kind of cuts that are coming ahead is who ends up suffering the most. Pensions will be freezed and then eroded by inflation.

    @DT

    IMF is a four letter word around here, but going to the IMF might not be that bad after all. Just like using a credit card to get a rating. You've got a point there.

    May 09th, 2018 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    The “Oficial Market” just opened and the mighty U$ Dollar continues its revaluation against the Argie peso...

    The “Black Market” just opened as well..., and the mighty U$ Dollar continues its revaluation against the Argie peso... tenfold the official market...

    Wonder if it would be best to denounce the President..., the Finance Ministers and the Central Bank Manager for their fraudulent selling of Dollar Futures today..., or we better wait till tomorrow...?

    TURNIPS...!

    May 09th, 2018 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    I´ve still got my old 2000 Motorola Startac. What a beast! I can't wait to start using it again.

    Think, it looks like Cavallo has smelled the blood and wants back in! hahahahaha!!!

    May 09th, 2018 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    TF, in Argentina you have all that beef, horsemeat or Soy Quorn if you prefer, lakes of Malbec too. Plenty of gas ( from Vegetables like Think), you can be self sufficient quite easily. Single Malt however will become even more of a luxury. Just needs a different mindset as you so perceptively point out. Compared with the UK Argentina with its massive natural resources is very well placed.

    Motorola used to have one of those phones about 8 meters high at the entrance to Heathrow airport, sadly its gone…

    May 09th, 2018 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TF
    IF they set it up but don't use the money, like Poland apparently did. But what are the chances?

    I don't have my old brick phones, the damn things kept breaking. Crappy new technology.

    @Think
    Don't you need to buy a judge for that? Better start saving. Better start saving in U$ dollars...

    @TV
    Now you sound like Trollboy. Didn't people used to make fun of CFK for saying Argentina should be self sufficient? Marti Llazo was always going on about “vivir con lo nuestro”.

    May 09th, 2018 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Lucan

    I remember her saying that. Sadly it's impossible in the modern world but in Argielands present situation it's the way to try to go and ramp up exports with their cheap Peso. Trollboy was incapable of sensible commentary.

    May 09th, 2018 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    @TV:

    That's a very good question. You need a decent industrial sector to make good use of your natural resources, otherwise you become just a commodities' producer and are unable to create decent jobs for your people.
    I know that sounds very 19th century, but in my opinion this is relevant today.
    I don't care for self sufficiency (not even sure if that is even possible anymore) just creating more added value to our commodities would do.

    That's going to be hard to achieve with the current status quo of short-sighted enterpreneurs, blood sucking unions and corrupt politicians.

    May 09th, 2018 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    TF the UK has many of the same negative people, clueless politicians, greedy banksters unwilling to take risks, and practically no natural resources. Our manufacturing sector is now only 11% almost half that of Germany. The Unions were dealt a death blow by Thatcher. For consumption Argentina should be aiming for maximum self sufficiency but be exporting that beef, wine and soy like crazy. The worst thing is to be like Twinkle, serial moaner blaming politicians. Came across too many such people in my career.

    May 09th, 2018 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TF
    “You need a decent industrial sector to make good use of your natural resources, otherwise you become just a commodities' producer and are unable to create decent jobs for your people.”

    I totally agree with that. Macri has been unlucky with the drought, but that just shows how risky it is to rely on agro-exports.

    What I don't understand is why CFK didn't try to develop industries using Argentina's raw materials, where you might have some advantage, rather than aiming for the most impractical thing possible and trying to compete against China and Korea in electronics, and in isolated TdF no less.

    Natural resources aren't always a good thing, google 'resource curse' if you haven't heard of it.

    May 09th, 2018 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tarquin Fin

    @TV
    The sole mention of IMF has already caused the unions to scream bloody hell. Everybody know that we need to do what Maggie about them, but absolutely no politician in this country will attempt to do that because enterprises and unions agree with each other under the hood. Workers get minimum benefits and consumers get crappy products.

    @DT
    I'm familiar with resource curse. “Tato” (the guy in glasses in my picture) was a comedian known for his hilarious but insightful monologues. He always stated that our vast resources are the reason of our cyclical doom periods. Cristina never tried to compete with the Chinese. She just made Tierra del Fuego a tax haven for friends. Good to see that you get my point about commodity export dependence.

    May 09th, 2018 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    Thatcher went too far; now we're stuck with zero hour contracts, shitty temp jobs and stagnant wages that no one feels they can do anything about. TV should understand why people object to the IMF, though, after all his complaining about the EU taking our sovereignty.

    “She just made Tierra del Fuego a tax haven for friends.”

    Oh well, the US has Delaware, Nevada and Wyoming. Some of these places *don't* have many resources and aren't good for much else.

    I was wondering who the guys in your picture were. I guess I probably wouldn't understand it, though.

    May 09th, 2018 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Whilst Maggie thrashed the Unions she and economic nutcase Keith Joseph also trashed our real manufacturing sector (pie makers were unaffected) . Thus she killed the golden goose instead of reforming and reviving it. She also spawned the banksters who, unregulated, trashed the economy in 2008 leading to much of what DT constantly whinges about.
    Basically what Macri is trying to do is root and branch reform of the RG economy but with so much opposition from the left who want the gravy train to continue its a very difficult task. A bit like Brexit. Good medicine often tastes sour.

    May 10th, 2018 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    To them Engrish...
    Stop biatching about something you know nothing about...
    An learn from somebody that knows how to manage a society in a proper modern social way...
    https://www.rferl.org/a/what-can-norway-teach-other-oil-rich-countries/26713453.html

    Chuckle chuckle...

    May 10th, 2018 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Twinkle Vegetable, if it werent for oil Norway would be on its uppers. Dont try to hold up their single commodity economy as an example. One of my best friends is Norwegian and actually lives there rather than you whose folks were obviously chucked out for being Quislings.

    May 10th, 2018 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    To them Engrish...
    Stop biatching about something you know absolutely nothing about...

    ~1970..., North Sea Oil began to flow ...
    What has the once mighty Engrish Thatcherism Empire to show for it...?
    What has little SOCIAL Democratic Norge to show for it...?
    Read carefully the below linked Yank propaganda article and learn..., from somebody that knows..., how to manage a society in a proper modern SOCIAL way...

    https://www.rferl.org/a/what-can-norway-teach-other-oil-rich-countries/26713453.html

    Chuckle chuckle... rechuckle...

    May 10th, 2018 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Why would Norway be 'on its uppers' without oil? Sweden isn't, Iceland isn't, Finland isn't. They don't have a pot of black gold but they're all doing fine. Considering there's not much oil left we'd do better to copy the countries that don't have big natural resources.

    TV, it's hard to take anything you say seriously after you complained there were too many good jobs in Britain, and this thread is supposed to be about Argentina anyway. Why don't you tell us which policies the 'left' in Argentina have blocked Macri from implementing?

    May 10th, 2018 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    You left out the Danes..., boy...
    They invented something in the seventies that got us all “on our uppers”... ;-)))

    May 10th, 2018 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    Because I knew it would annoy you,  danskjävel. ;)

    What did they invent in the 70s, then? I can't find anything notable.

    May 10th, 2018 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    Twinkle, with all that oil and a tiny population thats more $ per person, kapiche? Sorry to have to lecture you on simple economics. Do try to keep up.

    As to the others of those more Nothern Skandis - trees! And the Danes - bacon to go with the sauerkraut.

    May 10th, 2018 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    I knew that was your intention..., laddie...
    Just wanted to give you that teasing satisfaction...
    BTW..., I know you have watched that Danish “invention” quite a few times...
    No need to play innocent..., I've told you many times before..., I'm not your mom... :-)

    May 10th, 2018 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Trees? In Iceland?! I think the real lesson is to make the best use of whatever you have, something neither Argentina nor Britain is doing particularly well at.

    IMO the Netherlands would be a good country to look at, since it has many similarities to the UK but seems to be dealing with the problems better, even despite being in the Euro.

    @Think
    Most of the things I can think of turned out to be invented a surprisingly long time ago. Should I really be googling for this at work?

    May 10th, 2018 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    Ok, so the Danes invented porn, the swedes had ABBA and Ericsson, And Norway has made a ton of money out of oil.

    So, what's up with Venezuela then? They're sitting on one of the largest reserves of black gold yet they can't get the most common antibiotic.

    Resources are great if you know how to efficiently turn them into wealth. Norway is just a social democracy which has found a good way to channel some of the wealth to most of their citizens.

    Venezuela has embraced full socialism instead and thus has lost the ability to efficiently create wealth from its resources and its citizens are getting poorer and poorer.

    Argentina is a money making machine, but there is no system by which part of that wealth could benefit its citizens. As TV stated, the best Argentina has done so far is to set up that gravy train that continuously chokes small businesses/industries in such a stupid way that all we have left to do is either sell raw commodities or have a multinational transform it for us at a big cost.

    Before anybody jumps on me, I'm not defending that ridiculous conspiracy theory about foreign powers stopping us from development. I'm just trying to point out our sheer stupidity, our toxic and unfounded ego as a nation.

    Argentina will be a failure unless we as a society learn how to build some character and stop ranting abount how we were amongst the top ten economies 100 years ago, have the best football players, the best beef, etc, etc ... Oh, we were so smart that also managed to invent “Dulce de Leche”, that sweet stuff that will dominate the world one day.

    May 10th, 2018 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    STOP !!!
    HALT !!!
    DO NOT MOVE A FINGER !!!

    You are in Victorian Engeland...
    Last Engrishman that googled for “that” at work..., lost his fat cat job... (Damian Green:-)

    Mr. Tarquin Fin...
    Perdón que te pinche el último globo amarillo que te queda..., pebete pero..., si la memoria no me falla..., estoy seguro de haber leido alguna vez..., entre el Aleph y la Rayuela..., un viejo recetario de la Sra. María Josepha Petrona de Todos los Santos Sánchez de Velazco y Trillo de Thompson y Mendeville..., A.K.A...: Mariquita S deT..., donde cuenta que el Luledelele se importaba del Alto Perú en los años treinta...
    Mil ochocientos treinta quiero decir....

    May 10th, 2018 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • The Voice

    TF you mean the Sepoys! All British, beavering away fouling up everything! When really its folk like the Twinkle Vegetable pursuing barmy totally unsuitable policies and holding you back. If you think about it Marti's description of Argenzuala under Kretina its just about spot on.
    You can build reactors, rockets and yet you cant build saleable technology! Instead you have Twinkle and horsemeat, at least you are top dogs with that…

    May 10th, 2018 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Lord Lucan

    Under the British Hong Kong had nothing and made everything. After British Rule Tanganyika had practically everything and made nothing.

    Attitude is everything….

    May 10th, 2018 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    Nah, this is Elizabethan England, a very different beast. And I'm pretty sure porn predates Denmark by at least several thousand years. Also I just learned that one of the earliest surviving pornographic films was made in Argentina in 1907, thanks Wikipedia.

    Also do you have to be so cryptic? Luledelele? And why globo amarillo?

    @TF
    Never mind, you still have the biro right?

    May 10th, 2018 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    @DT

    Globo amarillo, “Yellow balloon” is a symbol of Cambiemos, Macri's coalition. Think's still confused about my political preferences. The fact that I voted Macri for the sole reason of getting rid of the Krichnerite makes him think that I actually like Macri, which I don't. Still I had confidence in Macri's administration. Half of my confidence has gone away in the last couple of months though.


    @Think

    Ludelelele? Sounds like those words kids under 4 use to make up. Please clarify. You should be aware of the rule: If you can't google it, then it doesn't exist.

    @TV
    We pretty much can build a reactor but are unable to separate lithium for salt. We have to bring in the chinese to take it all away for peanuts.The chinese nonetheless.But if you give it to the chinese, you are not at all a sepoy. That seems to be the way our sovereign thinking works.

    May 10th, 2018 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Anything predating the Danish sixties was art...

    May 10th, 2018 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    So we were doing porn in 1907?! Wow, I wonder what the Pope might think of that!

    May 10th, 2018 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    That's a nice excuse. “You've found my art directory.” :)

    @TF
    Ah, I see. I was hopeful too when Macri took over, but not so much now. And I feel better that you don't know what that word was either.

    I think back then there were less rules about that sort of thing in Latin America compared to Europe or N. America, and I'm sure the world is grateful.

    Perhaps the Pope believes it's a great national achievement?

    May 10th, 2018 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    The first time I went to Denmark on business in 1973 someone at work asked me to bring back Porn Mags. I was surprised and disgusted at the photos in them which were highly graphic. I dont think its anything Denmark should be proud of. The revolutionary new conveyor drives I went to see were. Evidently Twinkle has expertise in the porn field as well as crotch sniffing which he admits to.

    May 10th, 2018 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Any 3 years old kid in Argentina knows what “Lule de Lele” is...
    Except Don Fulgencio..., el hombre que no tuvo infancia...
    By the way..., pebete... Feeling happier today...?
    We jubilados la estamos pasando bomba...

    May 10th, 2018 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Tarquin Fin

    Come'on Think, I had a nice childhood. Why would you think I had no childhood?

    See, I thought it had something to do with little kids words. My younger brother called it something like 'rasrrurri”, only God would know why.

    May 10th, 2018 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    Now any 10 year old can see much worse things on the internet. It's pretty disturbing.

    @Think
    Were you working in Denmark in the 70s by any chance?

    May 10th, 2018 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    The important question about the Peruvian origin of the Luedelele has been satisfactorily cleared...

    Now..., to The Market....
    Quiet day today... Dollar up a few cent to 23.15$...
    Next tuesday 600,000,000, 000 Pesos in LEBAC's ars due to maturity...
    That's ~30,000,000,000 U$D (morlacos verdes)... Whisky Dujovne better hurries in Watchington...

    (Just for reference..., 30,000,000,000 U$D is ~DOUBLE of what the IMF may loan as “Stand By” to any given Country..., following IMF “normal procedures”...
    A higher amount will need a Directory Meeting...)

    May 10th, 2018 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    The markets, right!

    How about this:

    http://www.lapoliticaonline.com/nota/112885-continua-el-alza-del-merval-a-pesar-de-la-aprobacion-de-la-emergencia-tarifaria/

    You won't find that in Pagina|Luledelele

    May 10th, 2018 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    The Market, right...!

    How about this...:

    https://www.pagina12.com.ar/113871-marco-del-pont-advirtio-que-el-stand-by-alimentara-la-bicicl

    You won't find that in Clarin|Miente...

    May 10th, 2018 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    My point exactly. If you look at the news looking for carnage, you will certainly find it.

    If someone tries to point out a single fact like the Merval stock index going up, like what I just did, that is just a lame attempt to steer things in the other direction.

    This is a moment in which all of us must exercise concrete criticism. Macri has got into this situation all by himself. He'd better finds a way to fix what he broke.

    However I am not hoping he resigns as I had never wished for Cristina to resign or being ousted.

    It is what it is.

    May 10th, 2018 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Your point exactly...???
    If you looked at the “News” the last couple of years looking for any “Carnage” against Macri & Co policies..., you would certainly had found almost none...
    Except for a pair honourable exceptions as Pagina12 and El Destape...
    When this humilde servidor dared to share some of their info in here your democrac reaction was...:
    ***“THINK..., YOU LIE..., LIE..., LIE AS GÖBBELS...!!!”*** remember...?

    Just do me a favour...:
    1) Go to Youtube and watch the 2015 Argie Presidencial Debate between Scioli and Macri...
    2) Listen carefully to both of them... (You may take notes..., as el boludo de Fantino does)
    3) Count how many confirmable lies did Mr. SCIOLI tell us..
    4) Count how many confirmable lies did Mr. MACRI tell us..
    5) THINK...

    And remember...
    Mme. Kirchner stood in charge of the Country in 2008..., during the worst World Economic Crisis since 1930... and things went pretty smooth...

    Mr. Macri is in charge of the Country in May 2018..., when the USA raised their Prime Rate with one half of a 1% ( 0.5%)

    Who d you plan to vote for in 2019..., pebete...?
    Marcos Peňa...?
    Cohen Sabban...?
    Esmeralda Mitre...?
    O Lilita..., la gordita...?

    May 10th, 2018 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tarquin Fin

    Think, you are still getting me wrong and I have already apologized for comparing you to Goebbels.

    Pagina/12 and El Destape are BS just like Clarin and La Nacion. I thought we had this issue settled.

    Yes, 2016, I was more than hopeful that Macri could finally turn this country around. And I knew that things were not looking good around May last year.
    I was wrong, or at least half wrong. There you have it. Enjoy.

    You keep obsessing about me being a full time Macrist when in fact I voted for Massa on the first round. Please keep that in mind.

    Who will I vote in 2019? It all depends. If Macri pulls it off and turns around this crisis, there's a 50% chance that he could get my vote.

    There's also a 50% chance that I will vote for some other candidate, even if he/she is peronist. I'm talking about Uñac from San Juan or Uturbey from Salta. I think Massa has flipped a couple of times and don't quite trust him right now.

    There's 0% chance that I will vote for anybody politically related to Cristina or the left.

    So, are we in the clear yet?

    Let's stop picking on each other and annoying the rest of the posters here.

    May 10th, 2018 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Oki Doki....

    Buf first answer me 1 (one) simple question...
    Which was in your opinion the best government Argentina has had since..., lets say 1950..., for the mayority of its people...?

    May 10th, 2018 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    Honestly ... None.

    May 10th, 2018 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    All equally shitty for you ..., huhhhhh...?
    Peron..., Illia..., Videla..., Alfonsin..., Nestor K...?

    May 10th, 2018 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    Peron and Illia: Heard great and bad things about both, but I wasn't even born yet.

    Videla, are you serious? I wasn't even considering him.

    The rest, I had periods during which I felt their presidency felt right.

    Alfonsin: 85-87. I was a teen but I could tell that people had a sense of hope and businesses were timidly recovering.

    Menem: 92-94. This was the period when I thought that despite the excessive privatisations, maybe he was right on track on solving problems.

    Nestor: 04-06. I felt betrayed by Nestor after so much insider information that I received regarding his wrongdoings.

    I guess the one that had the balls to actually do what needed to be done was Duhalde. He did it because he knew he wasn't going to run.

    May 10th, 2018 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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