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Montevideo, November 20th 2018 - 19:49 UTC

Six out of ten voters said UK's exit from EU increased prospect of splitting up

Thursday, May 24th 2018 - 08:35 UTC
Full article 20 comments

Most voters are in favor of the Union but believe Brexit has made the break-up of the United Kingdom more likely, polling has found. In England, 68% of adults backed the UK status quo followed by 66% in Wales, 59% in Northern Ireland and 52% in Scotland, according to the ICM research. But across the four nations, up to six out of 10 voters said Britain’s exit from the European Union had increased the prospect of the UK splitting up. Read full article

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  • The Voice

    Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland think they benefited from EU handouts. Our EU taxes sent where the EU deems. In future WE will decide where this money is spent not Euro bureaucrats.

    Scots Welsh and Irish UK residents shouldnt be fooled. Whats wrong with us UK residents deciding where to spend OUR taxes?

    May 24th, 2018 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    I'm surprised support for the union is so low, even in England, and surprised it's only 6 in 10 who thought Brexit increased the chance of a breakup.

    TV, remember Wales voted to leave the EU, and I think people in NI were more worried about the border than about losing handouts. Cornwall also benefited greatly from EU handouts but voted strongly for Brexit.

    What's wrong with the Westminster gvmt deciding how to spend taxes is exactly the London-centricness that means they give problems in other regions a lower priority. For you London seems much closer than Brussels, but for someone in the the Outer Hebrides that is not necessarily true. Having a devolved government seems to have benefited Scotland, maybe places like the South West would also be better off if more decisions were made locally?

    May 24th, 2018 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    I said 'UK' residents, I didnt say Westminster. The UKs regional assemblies can do a better job of distributing funds than Brussells bureaucrats. But, some things, like agricultural subsidies should be decided by Parliament.

    Having lived in South Wales for many years I know that Wales has many groupings, the Valley peoples, the Southern City people, the anglo friendly people of mid and west wales and the welsh speakers of North Wales. To say that Wales voted this way or that way is obsfucation, its not a cohesive whole, nowhere in the UK is these days. Have you ever been to the Hebrides, the number of English accents is amazing?

    To break up the UK would be an act of madness and realistically its not likely at all. This is just another Project Fear stunt by the smarting Remainers who think they run things but dont.

    May 25th, 2018 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Yes, you said UK residents, but in practice the decisions will be made by the government in Westminster. You understand that for eg Scottish nationalists, the UK government appears as exactly the distant, unresponsive bureaucracy that Brussels does to you, where decisions are made by and for England instead of France and Germany? And judging by what you have said here, you don't trust them yourself much more than the government in Brussels.

    Yes, Wales has many groups, and the results there resist any simple explanation. Maybe you shouldn't be addressing 'Scots, Welsh and Irish UK residents' as a group if you know perfectly well they are not one cohesive whole?

    “To break up the UK would be an act of madness and realistically its not likely at all.”

    That is exactly what people said about Brexit. Now we know all too well that people will vote for mad things, do you trust that the SNP supporters are saner than you?

    May 25th, 2018 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    SNP supporters will cut off their nose to spite their face...they are very nationalistic, a bit like Brexiteers...I think...
    The BNP Brexit National Party would have been a good name...they express all the traits...
    Do I see a difference between all this anti Europe rhetoric and the SNP anti English drivel...nope...
    Stupid people can't see what they have become...

    May 25th, 2018 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    From what I have observed the lower down the pecking order a governing group is the better it spends our money. Our Parish Council does a fine job. The higher up the tree a group is the worse decisions it makes. Top of the tree is the EU. It has made some fine laws too but its largely irrelavent and useless because its dominated by France and Germany and their agenda.
    If Nationalists want to run their own Trumptons and Chigleys good luck to them, but, they will have a lot of problems worse than ours separating ourselves from the EU superstate

    May 26th, 2018 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    There does seem to be a certain amount of resemblance, including the Brexiters' alleged keenness for trade deals with the rest of the world while hating on Europe, while for the SNP England is the enemy but people from other countries are fine, and they want to leave the UK but stay in the EU.

    I know the SNP leadership are very pro-EU, but how many of their supporters would prefer to quit both?

    @TV
    Might be true in general but it's easier for these little local organisations to become corrupt. I think there's probably a happy medium, but some decision need to be made at a higher level, obviously. Which EU laws do you think are good?

    May 26th, 2018 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I don't know that they are really pro EU they just support anything that takes power from the hands of England they have always resented England wielding the power...
    That's what all the fuss is about concerning Brexit and all the EU powers being transferred to the UK Parliament instead of being shared with the devolved Parliaments...
    The similarities between the English nationalists stance with Europe and the SNP's attitude with England is striking...
    ...and I call them nationalists and not Brexiteers, because that is what they are...
    They are most certainly willing to cut their noses off to spite their face...
    What a great idea.... to have a united Europe opposing you...on your doorstep...

    May 26th, 2018 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Which laws? The obvious ones. Freedom of movement, free trade. But.. I believe freedom in which country you wish to permanantly live and work should be controlled by national governments in the interests of each country. Swamping Britain with a huge influx of people willing to accept very low wages has depressed incomes and helped to cause the housing crisis. Its not only EU migrants that have done that of course.

    The SNPs English hating stance has echoes of distraction politics just like Hitler and the Jews or the Argies and the Malvinas beef. But the intelligent majority in Scotland are not willing to buy it.

    May 27th, 2018 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Voice
    I'm not surprised the various governments are fighting over who gets what power, of course they all want as much for themselves as they can get.

    And yeah, there's a lot of nationalism in the Brexiters. In theory they want to trade more with the rest of the world, but in practice they are unwilling to make the compromises required for any trade deal.

    @TV
    Are you in favour of free movement or not? The EU did give national governments the ability to limit it for some years after new countries joined the EU, the UK government chose not to do this for Poland etc, perhaps not realising how big the flow would be.

    Personally I think free movement worked well when all the countries were fairly similar in terms of wealth and opportunity, because emigrating is not something people will do lightly. But when there are large disparities as between Eastern and Western Europe, then you get a large influx which causes problems.

    “The SNPs English hating stance has echoes of distraction politics just like Hitler and the Jews or the Argies and the Malvinas beef. But the intelligent majority in Scotland are not willing to buy it.”

    These things are always more obvious from the outside. Blaming the EU is our government's version of distraction politics; if you weren't British it's highly unlikely that you'd think Brexit a good idea either.

    May 27th, 2018 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I am in favour of freedom of movement of EU based tourists and short and long term residence in retirement or for a second home. But I believe that work visas should be controlled by national governments because its low skilled EU workers from countries that only pay a quarter of UK salaries that have contributed to the depression of incomes of our lowest paid and contruted massively to the housing crisis. Losing hundreds of thousands of its most skilled and professional workers has caused massive problems in Bulgaria in particular according to my son in laws parents who spend 50% of their time there running a charity.

    I havent heard our goverment holding up the EU as a bogeyman? Thats Sturgeon and Salmond on England. They ferment hate. I know some fervent Scots Nats, I think they are nutters. Brexit voters I know were well informed and voted in favour of what they believed in.

    May 27th, 2018 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @DT. I don't remember Wales voting to Leave the EU. Largely because Wales wasn't asked. But you seem to have swallowed SNP propaganda. For your information, scotland didn't vote to remain in the EU. Because it was the UK electorate that was asked. And the votes, wherever they were cast, mean just as much, or as little. As it happens, I believe that the UK would be better off without the divisive scots. Out of a thousand years, we did without them for three-quarters. And, amazingly, after 311 years of a “union” that they begged for, they still have to be subsidised. I don't understand the claim that Salmond made in 2014 about scotland being one of the wealthiest countries. If that's the case, it can do without English money and pay for itself. An important thing to try to grasp on “trade agreements” is the way that the EU does it. It insists that a “trade agreement” with the UK means that the UK has to do everything it decides. I'm not aware of any other countries that demand that degree of subservience, just for the sake of being able to trade. I sincerely hope that our government finally realises that “the people” will not put up with EU interference. We should just say “Negotiations are over. You keep saying that we will be a ”third country“, so we will be. Forget any ”agreements“ you thought we had about you getting money, your nationals being treated exceptionally or having any access to our waters. Not to mention anything else we can think of to make your lives difficult”.

    May 27th, 2018 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @TV
    It's not free movement if you need a work visa. BTW, I was made redundant from my previous job because they outsourced the work to Bulgaria. Is that better or worse than having the Bulgarians come here to work?

    An example of what our government blames the EU for:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/06/ukip-british-fishing-westminster-brussels-brexit

    And I'm sorry to say I haven't met a single well informed Brexit voter. You didn't even know what a customs union is, or care to learn, but you were happy to rant about the EU regardless.

    @Conqueror
    “Out of a thousand years, we did without them for three-quarters.”

    Remind me, in which quarter did we build a globe spanning empire and win two world wars?

    “I don't understand the claim that Salmond made in 2014 about scotland being one of the wealthiest countries. If that's the case, it can do without English money and pay for itself.”

    Seems obvious enough. Since the SNP's dearest wish is to do without English money and pay for themselves, they naturally publicised the figures that showed the best chance of that.

    “It insists that a “trade agreement” with the UK means that the UK has to do everything it decides.”

    Which explains why the UK was forced to join the Euro, the Schengen agreement, to bail out Greece, resettle refugees from southern Europe, and to give up our rebate that no other country gets - oh wait, we didn't do any of those things. Seems the EU is not so inflexible after all.

    An important thing to grasp on trade agreements is that they require compromise. Would you be willing to give Mercosur a higher beef quota to get a deal, for example?

    May 27th, 2018 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    There you go again DT stating lies about others and then blaming them for it. Not a very good debating strategy. Pointless trying to debate anything with you.

    The point about Bulgaria is that free movement has denuded it of doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers, and entrepeneurs leaving it in a desperate state. Software easily travels across borders, sick people dont.

    May 28th, 2018 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    What 'lies' have I stated about others? It really is impossible to debate if you accuse me of lying instead of addressing any of my points.

    I believe you about Bulgaria, but the alternative is to prevent people moving to countries where they can make more money, like the communist government did, and I don't feel very comfortable with that.

    My point is that companies already have freedom of movement, they can move their factories and call centres to China or India or Bulgaria, and they can bid for business in any EU country. It was to balance this that the EU gave the same freedom to people. So if the single market benefits Germany over Italy, Italians are not stuck in a poor country with no jobs but can move to Germany for work. It broke down when much poorer countries joined because the incentive to move was so high; even though there were jobs locally they paid so much less.

    May 28th, 2018 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Italians are strapped in a poor country because of the Euro which benefits Germany by making their products cheap. Who would swap living in Italy for Germany, its chalk and cheese! Free movement was introduced to make the EU a bland featureless compliant whole not to balance businesses freedoms. One of the big reasons I voted to leave was to avoid becoming part of this featureless mass. Listen to the pap coming out of the the suits in Brussels…. Is it attractive… NO!

    May 28th, 2018 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Now who's attributing motives to others? Don't call me a liar if you're not going to back it up!

    Did you even know we had free movement until Poland joined the EU? They never expected those countries to join when it was introduced, it wasn't some nefarious plan.

    May 28th, 2018 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I know more about the development of the superstate than you do having lived through the period when we eventually joined and living, working and remaining in touch with people in several of the countries in it and associates. Your only source of information appears to be second hand knowledge courtesy of Google and Remainer mates.

    May 28th, 2018 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Living through it gives you a good idea of how the EU has changed over time, but not the details of how the single market works or what the customs union is. And having friends in other countries tells you what it is like living in those countries, but unless they are economists they won't know any more about the customs union than you do.

    In this case there is no substitute for reading up on it and educating yourself, either in the library or much easier on the Internet.

    And I'm sorry TV, but it was very obvious from what you said before that you did NOT understand it.

    May 28th, 2018 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Juana

    The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a British government propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?

    May 30th, 2018 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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