MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, September 19th 2018 - 15:03 UTC

Dissatisfaction with Argentine government reaches 76%; Macri's support down to 31%

Thursday, July 26th 2018 - 06:54 UTC
Full article 39 comments

An overwhelming majority of Argentines, 76%, are concerned with the financial turbulence and deeply dissatisfied with the poor performance of the economy according to a monthly survey from the University of San Andrés, its lowest point since the peak reached in October 2017 following the victory of president Mauricio Macri's coalition in the midterm elections. Read full article

Comments

Disclaimer & comment rules
  • Think

    ***“Dissatisfaction with Argentine government reaches 76%; Macri's support down to 31%”***..., article says...

    Pá que ningun distraído crea que esto se terminó...
    Esto recién empieza...
    Saludos del Chubut...
    El Think...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w5VqwHxYrqs

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • chronic

    He's still an rg.

    What did you think was going to happen?

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Enrique Massot

    Kudos to MP for publishing this X-ray picture of Argentina today.

    Very revealing: “...in the last two months of 2017, the most disenchanted were at the bottom of the scale; in the first quarter of this year, the middle class followed, and finally the high income sector.”

    This so well illustrates the essence of the government of Mauricio Macri, a government of the rich working for a narrow group of extremely wealthy people.

    They first hit the less fortunate, then the middle class that had high hopes and support for the government. More recently, even more well-off sectors such as those represented by the Union Industrial Argentina criticized the government.

    Not surprisingly, the only ones to still show satisfaction towards the government are the few belonging to large agri-food corporations and the large landowners associated with the Rural Society, as well as international mining corporations which not surprisingly are the ones benefiting from the cancellation or reduction of export taxes as well as from a dropping peso.

    And so it goes the country's first experience with an elected oligarchic government that is quickly sliding to its downfall, product of reckless greed and contempt for all things Argentine.

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Stink
    Other than Maldonado's family and their lawyer claiming that the police are responsible for his death, is there any evidence that this is true ? Is there anything to indicate his drowning in the Chubut River was not accidental ? would just like to know the facts, or the version of a person who presumably accompanied what supposedly led to his death.

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Aglo turnip jst above...

    Let's just mention palynology..., for starters...

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • DemonTree

    This?

    https://www.pagina12.com.ar/130832-el-informe-que-pone-en-duda-el-relato-oficial

    I see you're as cryptic as ever, how are you otherwise?

    Jul 26th, 2018 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Mauricio Macri's project is the one the Argentine oligarchy has had for many decades: to erase the social and economic advancements initiated by Juan Peron in 1945. And while he spares the “reasonable” Peronists -- the ones who are helping him achieve his goals -- he absolutely wants to defeat and obliterate all other Peronists and Kirchnerists.

    As he said on the record years ago: “wages are a cost and we need to lower our costs.”

    While Macri's father is an industry tycoon, he is closer to his mother, whose family are traditional landowners named Blanco Villegas. Their mindset is to put people “at their place,” and have a society made up of a few ultra wealthy and an extended low class whose members would be reduced to beggar status, lacking the most essential means and willing to do any job for peanuts.

    Argentina would, according to this vision, come back to its former Golden Age, when the estancieros would amass fortunes in an agro-export centred economy and the rest would be live like paupers.

    Macri's goals, however, would require a submissive population -- something the Argentines aren't.

    Oh, and the statement that “the Macri administration receive high marks for investment in Public Works,” will soon read in past tense, as one of the ways to reduce the fiscal deficit in accordance to the IMF requirements is precisely to paralyze investments on public works.

    Re-election in 2019 is becoming a tough one for Cambiemos.

    Jul 27th, 2018 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Think

    Esto recién empieza...

    http://www.resumenlatinoamericano.org/2018/07/27/nacion-mapuche-facundo-jones-huala-ya-esta-en-prision-domiciliaria-ahora-a-seguir-luchando-por-su-libertad/

    Jul 27th, 2018 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Enrique Massot

    @Think

    Absolutely. To understand the offensive against Facundo Jones Huala and other Mapuches taking place in Patagonia one must consider a context of land appropriation by powerful individuals or corporations taking place in some of the most unpolluted lands in the planet. Those large landowners are bothered by the Mapuches' land claims.

    Since 2001, as many as 16 Mapuches have been killed or disappeared in southern Chile.

    In Argentina, since Mauricio Macri became president at the end of 2015, Santiago Maldonado died during an violent operation by border police (gendarmería). In a subsequent operation, Rafael Nahuel was shot dead by security forces.

    And who owns those lands?

    Just as an example among many others are 900,000 hectares owned by clothing magnate Luciano Benetton. Or 55,000 hectares acquired by CNN’s Ted Turner or 14,000 hectares bought by Joseph Lewis.

    Douglas Tompkins (North Face) has acquired 800,000 hectares in Chile and Argentina.

    Joseph Lewis' case is emblematic. He purchased 11,000 hectares surrounding Lago Escondido and, against the law, cut off access to the water body. A 2009 judicial ruling ordering the reopening of access remains unenforced.

    To go around a law that prevents land acquisition by foreigners near the border, Lewis used the name of another individual.

    Lewis is an old friend of Mauricio Macri, who has vacationed in Lewis’ mansion and used a helicopter provided by the magnate to access the property.

    Lewis is also main shareholder of Edenor, Argentina’s largest power distribution company. In 2017, the government pardoned a 1.2 billion pesos debt that Edenor owed the state.

    As a justification for its violence against the Mapuches, the Argentine government has accused the Mapuche Ancestral Resistance (RAM) movement of being a powerful, armed terrorist organization – a dubious claim if there ever was one.

    This is why investigations on Mapuches' deaths progress at glacial speed.

    Jul 27th, 2018 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Estimado Sr. Massot...

    Y yo que me vine al Chubut para estar tranquilo...!!!
    Acá..., las cosas hierven desde hace un par de años...
    La situación es peor que en Chile... Un montón de Mapuces asesinados o desaparecidos...
    http://www.globalproject.info/it/mondi/trawun-in-wallmapu-intervista-a-moira-millan/21239

    PS...
    No todos los gringos son H de P's...
    Doug Tompkins era un caballero..., como Lewis y Benetton son unos cerdos...

    Jul 27th, 2018 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @Stink
    “Palynology”.....well done. In other words, you don't have a clue. Why am I not surprised to get an answer like that from the turnip from Chubut ?

    @EM
    “to erase the social and economic advancements initiated by Juan Peron in 1945....”

    Wow, now it's about erasing “social and economic advancements initiated by Peron in 1945” ?? what are you sniffing ? Peron was the beginning of the end, from which Argentina has never fully recovered.
    But OK, you blame Macri for Argentina's current pitiful situation, as if everything only went south after CFK, and she 'n her predecessors had nothing to do with it...a bit short-sighted, if you don't mind my saying....

    Another interesting thing....you believe Lula is a poor innocent victim of political persecution....even after being tried by 3 courts and convicted......yet you believe Macri, not even formally charged of anything - yet - is a crook.....Why ? is it because Lula came from a poor background and Macri from a wealthy one ? Is it that simple ?


    ”since Mauricio Macri became president at the end of 2015, Santiago Maldonado died during an violent operation by border police (gendarmería).”

    ...during a violent operation ?

    Strange, the autopsy concluded he drowned, and had not been beaten. Perhaps you should consult with Stink, he seems to think it can be explained through palynology...

    Jul 27th, 2018 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pugol-H

    “A 2009 judicial ruling ordering the reopening of access remains unenforced.”

    Just about says it all really, little wonder corruption is rampant, there is nothing to stop it.

    Still, Macri is doing better in the poles than Theresa May, she is even managing to lose the support of the “landed Gentry”.

    Jul 28th, 2018 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @EM
    ”the Argentine government has accused the Mapuche Ancestral Resistance (RAM) movement of being a powerful, armed terrorist organization”

    Powerful, no, but the other two seem somewhat accurate:

    https://m.tn.com.ar/politica/como-funciona-la-resistencia-ancestral-mapuche-la-organizacion-que-preocupa-al-gobierno_811403

    @JB
    Did you read the article I linked? I wasn't convinced, it's one expert against a whole bunch of them.

    @Pugol-H
    Of course he is, the Poles aren't the biggest fans of Brexit.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    Your above answer to Sr. Massot, linking to “TN” is like me linking you to “Fox News” after you critiziced Mr. Trump...

    Am I being clear..., or am I too cryptical for you...?

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    If you mean “Poles” from Poland, then I hate to disappoint you, I work in a place where at least 65% of the workforce are polish. Of those who were eligible to vote (quite a few), that did vote (no so many) virtually all voted out.

    In general they tend to be more “right wing” shall we say, also they tend to live in the parts of town where housing, school places, doctors surgery places etc. etc. are hard to find.

    If fact they are the one most acutely aware of the social pressures resulting from migration. Also I suppose they are already here.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    No, that's clear enough. I don't know the ins and outs of your media, though I know where Pagina12 stands (and Clarín and La Nación).

    But are you saying the incidents listed didn't happen, or didn't happen as described? And did Facundo Jones Huala say what they quoted, or not?

    @Pugol-H
    How were any of them eligible to vote? I thought the number who had gained British citizenship was pretty much negligible. But what you say does not surprise me, I have heard of many Brits living in Europe who voted against their own direct interest too.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    You only had to be registered as resident for 5 years and you got a polling card.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    If your colleagues voted due to that, they committed electoral fraud. Polish citizens are not allowed to vote in general elections, and rules for the referendum were based on that.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “Did you read the article I linked? wasn't convinced, it's one expert against a whole bunch of them”.
    Read it now.....looks like Prueger’s autopsy (performed w/o the family's authorization) raised more questions i/o of giving answers...it pokes holes in the official version, main one being that the state of the body wasn’t compatible with being submerged for 2 months.
    And it's very unlikely there’s any chance of a truly independent autopsy being carried out, with a result both sides could accept.

    Regarding the RAM, looks like the type of problem that arises after a long succession of governments ignore ancestral claims and treat the native populations as if they were expendable....a problem not exclusive to Argentina.....
    Just one question....are you and Pugol-H talking about Poles or polls ?


    Using the remaining space for the continuation of a previous post under “France beats Uruguay...” of 3 weeks ago..

    A few State governments have made feeble attempts to unify police forces (all crime depts. under one command, like in the US (‘n the UK ?), but every time Congress raises the issue, top brass in both forces refuse to cooperate…many would become redundant, demoted and/ or lose privileges. This rivalry screws up many investigations.
    Sure, ‘favela’ residents run a higher risk, but anonymous tips have helped catch a lot of criminals.
    Seems the author of Freakonomics also concluded crime is a profession - join the ranks ‘n work your way up, the dream of every foot-soldier. But here, the lack of schooling, plus little perspective for a better life, also contribute to criminality. Criminals always want more, but if once caught, the law/justice dealt with them properly, violent crime would be less of an issue. The gangs in ‘favelas’ have enormous firepower and are prepared to die defending their territories, so with the dozens of confrontations, deaths are bound to multiply. In common street crime, criminals show total disdain for the victim’s lives.

    Jul 29th, 2018 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    The autopsy was pretty independent AFAIK, and the large number of experts there included people chosen by the family. But they don't seem willing to accept a result that doesn't blame the police. The main suspicious point to me is why didn't they find his body earlier? It was the 3rd or 4th search IIRC, and it wasn't found far from where he disappeared. The river is pretty small and shallow in winter too.

    “a problem not exclusive to Argentina...”

    Yeah, the laws aren't set up to protect the rights of native people, and aren't likely to be while the rich individuals and corporations who want to take over the land have so much power and influence. If they can't get the law changed in their favour, they can usually ignore it with impunity.

    “Poles or polls”

    Pugol-H misspelled polls as poles, so I made a joke, and he replied seriously. I believe Poland has their own issues with the EU, but Brexit is obviously detrimental to Poles working in the UK.

    I'll reply to the rest later...

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Am not saying the official version of the autopsy was (deliberately) incorrect , but some people believe it might just be a cover-up, and as you say, will only accept a result that blames the police....(sounds a lot like what people like to believe regarding the accidental deaths of people caught in crossfire in Rio). However, if the body was submerged, and people didn't know where to look, could take time to find it, perhaps tangled up in vegetation by the river bank.
    Re Poles and polls, wondered if that was the case...

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Yeah, my mistake.

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr.DemonTree...

    You say...:
    ***“ Pugol-H misspelled polls as poles, so I made a joke, and he replied seriously.”***

    I say...:
    “Seriously”...???
    By porkying us into believing that Polish citizens had the right to vote in the BREXIT referendum...???
    Seriously...!!!

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Stink
    Way above, DT wrote ”Polish citizens are not allowed to vote in general elections, and rules for the referendum (BREXIT) were based on that.”.......now who's trying to pork who ? seriously...???

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    The papers at the time had pictures of the Chubut river and it was both shallow and clear. But I couldn't find a photo of the exact spot where the body was found, maybe it was more overgrown. Think knows the river so he could have given you a better answer if he'd wanted...

    I'd think pollen remaining on the clothes or not would depend greatly on position in the current, how the clothes were folded, etc. And for the meat experiment, they really ought to have used a whole pig, and dressed it in similar clothes, too. Plus the temperature of the water and the location needs to be the same; there are so many variables.

    As for the police, people don't trust them, and they have pulled similar tricks before. So even if in this case Maldonado did just drown while trying to escape arrest, many people won't believe it. And it didn't help that they failed to take his disappearance seriously, or start looking, for a long time.

    “now who's trying to pork who ?”

    Pugol-H was, by claiming Polish citizens could vote in the referendum. He was being serious, just seriously wrong. ;)

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “....so he could have given you a better answer if he'd wanted...” obviously he didn't feel he had to.....palynology explained it.

    OK, Pugol was seriously wrong, confusing polls for Poles - can happen - and then, after you'd taken the piss out of him, he carried on talking about Poles, until you said Poles couldn't vote; then Stink came along, after you'd already stated Poles couldn't vote, and claims (4th post above) you were trying to lead Pugol on by “implying” Polish citizens “could” vote (???)...

    Talking about Poles and those allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum, I've just replied to a post by British Bob on the subject, under “Support for 2nd Brexit referendum.....”
    Perhaps you'd like to contribute ?

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Nah, you've got it the wrong way round. Think was saying Pugol was telling porkies by claiming his Polish coworkers voted in the referendum, and therefore I was wrong to say his answer was a serious one.

    RE the police in Brazil, it's ridiculous that they are duplicating effort when they are already short of money, and even worse if it makes them less effective because of the rivalry. Why can't Congress just change things, even if the 'top brass' object?

    Good to know that allowing anonymous tips is helping, and I bet it doesn't cost much either.

    Yeah, in Freakonomics they saw crime as a profession, and one similar to acting or sport, where the rewards are highly concentrated on just a few people at the top, and competition is therefore intense. People at the bottom work in the hope of rising higher, not because the gains from dealing drugs or mugging tourists are worth it in themselves. But I doubt that applies to all criminals, they were studying drug gangs in particular.

    Anyway, I think the lack of schooling and opportunity do contribute to crime. If people have the choice of a crappy dead-end job and a crappy dead-end life, or the (slim) chance to get rich and powerful as a gang leader, some will choose the later. And, I daresay those who do make it would have been equally successful in legitimate business if they had been born with better opportunities.

    Jul 30th, 2018 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC

    Isto só começa...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IG9ZUYQqTyU

    LulaLivre

    Jul 31st, 2018 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Polls or Poles, not important.

    ”Why can't Congress just change things (police unification), even if the 'top brass' object?“

    Simple...it's not a matter of ”can't“ but one of ”won't“.....Police lobbies, and politicians don't want to get on their wrong side. Congress isn't interested in doing what's right, just doing what's good for them.

    Right, Freakanomics' study apparently does not address opportunistic street cime, in which there is no hierarchy....and again 'gangs' don't usually get involved in common street crime because the gains are too small, the risk is high and it attracts unwanted police attention.
    Gang leaders probably are smart, and may become rich and powerful, but there's one hitch - most don't live too long to enjoy the profits.

    @Stink
    Chico Buarque and Gilberto Gil ?? two singers who fit into the category of champagne socialists, and who have been accused of using funds from the ”Lei Rouanet” (taxpayer money used to promote 'culture') for personal gain. A couple of insignificant individuals who should be sharing Lula's cell.

    Jul 31st, 2018 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    @JB

    I do agree with your statement:

    ”Regarding the RAM (Ancestral Mapuche Resistance), looks like the type of problem that arises after a long succession of governments ignore ancestral claims and treat the native populations as if they were expendable....a problem not exclusive to Argentina...“

    Absolutely. In 2006, the Argentine government passed Law 26160 that suspended evictions of indigenous communities from lands they traditionally occupied. The law also mandated a survey of all ancestral lands. Since then, evictions have continued throughout the country while the surveys progressed at glacial speed. The government in place since December 2015 has implemented violent security forces action against groups such as the Mapuches in Patagonia, which have resulted in the destruction of dwellings and confiscation of agricultural tools dubbed ”weapons” such as carpenter saws, peaks, axes or knives).

    The actions of border police (Gendarmeria) also resulted in injuries and the death of Santiago Maldonado and Rafael Nahuel.

    @DT

    ”...why didn't they find (Maldonado's) body earlier?...(not) far from where he disappeared. The river is pretty small and shallow in winter too.”

    Absolutely. Additionally, the conservation state of Maldonado's body cannot, in any circumstance, be presented as having been submerged in the river's water for over 70 days. Since Santiago's body wasn't in the water, the most important question is, where was he for all that time?

    Jul 31st, 2018 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Yeah, it only addressed gangs. Didn't you say most of the street crime was committed by kids who live on the street? Guess it's more a necessity for them as they have no other means of support. I wonder if it's true that gang leaders don't live very long? We hear of ones like El Chapo, and he's old enough to retire, but I suppose the most famous ones are also the most successful.

    @EM
    How many experts were at Maldonado's autopsy? Including some chosen by his family, no? And all agreed his body could have been in the water for that length of time, except this new guy. So why should we believe him over the others, except that he's saying what you wanted to believe all along?

    Jul 31st, 2018 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Street crime is committed usually by individuals, ages 15 to 30, who live in 'favelas'...the reason why the crime rate is highest around those areas. They may be acting on their own, or following instructions from gang leaders for strategic reasons, such as stealing cars or trucks to be used later in organized assualts, blocking roads while blowing up ATM's etc...
    today it has become the fashion for gangs to relaiate against the police every time a gang member is either arrested or shot....up in the NE, they've burned dozens of buses, attacked public buildings, including police precincts....nothing seems to deter them...and the orders to retaliate come, many times, from inside prison ....street kids, who don't have homes (or have abandoned them) usually stick to petty crime, resorting to violence when cornered or their intended victims react.
    OK, El Chapo has lived long enough to become famous, but I don't think he was the typical gang-leader, getting into confrontations with the police on a daily basis (like in Rio).

    The investigations into Maldonado's death seem destined to go the same way as Nisman's....contradicting autopsies, people choosing what to believe in, and a lot of confusion....and in the end no one is held responsible. The people who give the orders for such crimes (if you agree they weren't accidental, or suicide) have means to cover their tracks.

    Fyi, posted something to you under “Argentine military involved in Domestic security...”

    Aug 01st, 2018 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Makes me wonder what happens after 30. Do they get normal jobs, or are all in jail, or move up to more advanced crime?

    “today it has become the fashion for gangs to relaiate against the police every time a gang member is either arrested or shot”

    Now that is a big problem. Have the police succeeded against them anywhere?

    I agree about Maldonado. If we can't trust the authorities to tell the truth, then we will never know it.

    I just had a look at the other article, must have missed it while I was away...

    Aug 01st, 2018 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “...what happens after 30” ? if not dead by then, usually robbing/stealing, or hiding from justice, or in jail. Clearly their ambition is to live off their crimes, or climb the ladder to more daring exploits....getting an honest job is NOT a consideration, besides most have no qualification worthwhile talking of.

    At the moment I'd say the police are making little or no progress....the unending queue of candidates to enter crime, ensures that when one is killed, two pop up to take his place..

    The criminal factions (PCC, CV etc) have literally taken over all the penitenciaries, except the maximum security ones...they have their cellphones, their privileges, prison-guards on their payroll, and run their crime gangs from the inside. Most attacks and definitely all the recent ones (in Ceará) were ordered from the inside.
    It's sad, but every single day you read or hear about all sorts of new crimes - either violent crime or fraud /corruption in everything that involves public funds...ones you have never even thought could exist...the Brazilians' creativity is amazing, but unfortunately misplaced...

    Aug 02nd, 2018 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Hmm, I suppose a good lot of the people murdered each year are criminals, but some of them must retire when they're too old to be successful at crime any more. Even totally unqualified people can get some jobs, or sell stuff on the street or whatever.

    “the unending queue of candidates to enter crime, ensures that when one is killed, two pop up to take his place”

    Are people so eager to die? Seems like the situation must be very dire if that is really their best option.

    What would you do if you were in charge?

    “the Brazilians' creativity is amazing, but unfortunately misplaced...”

    I laughed, but it seems to be another example of the thing about having all the ingredients to be a successful country, but they never quite come together. I wonder what it would take to channel all that energy in a more positive direction?

    Aug 03rd, 2018 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Agree that criminals lead the numbers, followed by cops, then innocent civilians (of the last group, many killed by other civilians for various, usually stupid motives), but most criminals that aren't killed, probably spend their retirement in jail.

    “Are people so eager to die?”...I don't think so, but either they believe it will be different with them, or they are convinced they won't last long and decide to make the most of it while they can.

    What would I do, if in charge ? A bit of a utopic question, because you'd be depending on others to back you up unconditionally to get things done - but presuming one could rely on Congress to vote for the good of the country, and not themselves, and to keep it in a nutshell, regarding criminality, I would simultaneously take drastic measures to improve 'basic' education, unify the police forces - investing in public security and intelligence through a national network (which hopefully would allow for the gradual dismantling of organized crime) and discourage common street crime, toughen up the sentences (for heinous crimes and drug trafficking), literally crucify anyone caught embezzling public funds, improve the penal justice system - in order to speed up trials and avoid cluttering the jails with people awaiting a simple court decision to either go to trial or to be released, improve the prison system by separating serious offenders from primary ones (recoverable ??) ...in other words do what most civilized countries do....not just look on and let it happen. Obviously, this presumes you can surround yourself with competent people and can do away with the rotten culture (that exists to facilitate corruption) of the disputes for political posts in (the very few) State-run companies that I wouldn't shut down.

    “the ingredients to be a successful country”....since my early teens, all Brazilians have heard that Brazil is the country of the future.......why not change this to the country of the present ?

    Aug 03rd, 2018 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “either they believe it will be different with them, or they are convinced they won't last long and decide to make the most of it while they can.”

    Another reason why criminals are mostly young; it's teenagers who think this way, at some point you recognise your own mortality and stop taking such stupid risks. But with the short prison sentences in Brazil, criminals certainly aren't spending their whole lives in jail. According to the internet, the recidivism rate in Brazil is 70%, which seems pretty dire, but it would be interesting to know how it varies with age. Statistics from the US show a much lower rate of reoffending among older prisoners compared to young ones after release.

    Most of what you suggest sounds reasonable, apart from 'literally crucify' (I hope you didn't really mean literally), but would, as you say, require a lot of cooperation to implement, and probably cost a lot too. Especially reforming the prison system, since it's already so overcrowded and overburdened. It's not too obvious how you'd get the jails out from control by the gangs, either, when they have so much money to bribe the guards, and if that fails, friends on the outside who can threaten their families.

    This Youtube video blames the county's geography for a lot of Brazil's problems with developing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ2jmrz_xgU&t=413s

    But I think the way it was settled by Portugal, in the beginning and afterwards, by handing out large amounts of land to a few people rather than letting families settle their own plots, also made a big difference. Plus a good proportion of the population were literally slaves, who were freed really late and even then weren't given any land to farm, or education to learn marketable skills, and had little option but to keep working as before.

    Aug 04th, 2018 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “...with the short prison sentences in Brazil, criminals certainly aren't spending their whole lives in jail”....most likely the cause of high recidivism...the law is too lenient.

    The law even permits up to 5 (temporary) pardons for inmates per year, for days like Mother’s day for ex., (presumably based on their offences, behavior), where they get out to commemorate w/ their families…an average of 10/15 % don’t return, and many are caught committing the same crimes (that put them in jail) soon after their release…Obviously, they should never be released, and everyone complains like hell, but criminal correction judges ‘n psychiatrists think they know better.
    And when their victims try to prosecute the State for releasing these individuals, nothing happens. In the US, the '3rd' strike puts you away for good, but here ?

    “Crucify ?”…no, not ‘literally’, but besides being jailed, giving back the money, never be allowed to work in anything public, again.
    Think one way to control the gangs is by isolating the leaders ‘n cutting off all communication with the outside. This obviously requires investment, which no one does. As to cutting off communications, the technology to block mobile phones has existed for years, but while they do nothing, the phones are smuggled in…to avoid prison-guards from cooperating with the gangs, and to protect them, perhaps moving them around frequently, might help.

    The video points out the most basic problem : lack of a decent infrastructure (contrary to the US). The US uses its rivers wisely, here the few that are used, face man-made problems (like chopping down forests, exposing natural springs that dry up) etc. The agribusiness prospers due to massive (private corporative) investments (essential to feed 200 million) and which is why subsistence farming will never work for anyone other than themselves.

    What the Portuguese did, sure didn’t help, 'n slowed down progress, but there’s been enough time to change it...

    Aug 04th, 2018 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “an average of 10/15 % don’t return”

    Seriously? And they still let them out? But I don't agree with the US policy either, it's too inflexible and doesn't take individual circumstances into account, and leads to people spending life in jail for quite minor crimes, long after they would have reformed.

    However, I suppose in Brazil the overcrowded jails are a big factor in letting people out, you'd need to build a lot more of them before routinely handing out longer sentences, and modify the existing ones a lot if you wanted to isolate gang members. And according to this, the technology to block mobile phones successfully is expensive, but surely worth it given the trouble they cause: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-35411297 As for moving prison guards around, it surely would help, but I don't they would be happy if you expected them to work far from home half the time.

    “Crucify ?”…no, not ‘literally’

    Glad to hear it. Young people these days, using literally when they mean figuratively, etc, etc. ;) I think if you enforced the 'never be allowed to work in anything public, again' part, you'd have no one to elect at all, but maybe in the future it could work.

    Re the rivers, does São Paulo have a decent one? And where does it come out? I don't think small farms are too viable right now, but might have been in the past, depending on the location. AFAIK that is what made the US and Canada better off, as people could support themselves and make a small surplus to spend.

    Aug 04th, 2018 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!