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Montevideo, September 23rd 2018 - 11:06 UTC

Argentines begin campaigning for a Secular State

Tuesday, August 21st 2018 - 09:09 UTC
Full article 11 comments

Argentines gathered in Buenos Aires last Saturday to oppose the influence of religion on Argentine politics and encourage people to quit the Catholic Church, in the wake of the recent Senate vote not to legalize some abortions. Read full article

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  • Earthfarmer

    What this story fails to mention is that the state gives money to the church in proportion to those that have been baptized catholic. By a person renouncing their tie to the church, the amount the state gives is reduced. The relationship between the state and the church is, unbelievably, actually written into the Argentine constitution, so if they really want to make an impact they should amend the constitution and break the relationship completely.

    Aug 21st, 2018 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Cheshire_Cat

    Earthfamer - Indeed, it is an old article from the Constitution which reads “the Argentine government supports the Roman Apostolic Catholic religion” while another proclaims freedom of religion. In practice this means that while freedom of religion is protected, the government gives tax money to the Church in proportion to the number of Catholics in the country - A ridiculous and archaic practice in the 21st century.

    Aug 21st, 2018 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Enrique Massot

    On this one, I totally agree with CC and EF. It is high time the Argentine state severed its ties with the Catholic Church, a practice unacceptable in the past and even more so in this day and age.

    Of course, this requires an amendment of the Constitution, which should be a no brainer.

    This could be opportunity for president Macri, who likes to throw things into debate as long as it diverts the public away from the economy.

    Aug 21st, 2018 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • pgerman

    The contradictions of Peronism always appear. When they are “in power” they are conservative but, when they are part of the opposition they have a revolutionary, modern and “leftist” discourse.

    CFK, and Peronism, dominated, with absolute majority, the two chambers of the Congress during the twelve years that they ruled the country. CFK, and Peronism, could have passed a law to legalize abortion without any problem but CFK openly declared herself “catholic and pro-life”. They could have promoted the separation of the Government and the Catholic Church but they preferred a political alliance with the Head of the Vatican State.

    As an example: Law 1420 passed during the First Presidency of J. A. Roca banning religious education in public schools in the whole country was abolished and replaced by another new law authorizing compulsory religious education during the CFK Government. This is a sample of the concessions that CFK made to the ecclesiastical power. In the provinces of Salta and Tucuman the religious and mandatory education was reintroduced after more than 100 years of being prohibited.

    The National Constitution, explicitly, clarifies that the State economically “supports” the Catholic Church but there are many laws that exceed this mandate and could be abolished without having to change the National Constitution. Like the salaries of Bishops, “scholarships” to seminarians or subsidies to private Catholic schools.

    I welcome the hour of the debate for the definitive separation of Church and State. It's a matter of time, there will be legal abortion and secular state sooner or later. The sad role of Peronism will once again be in evidence.

    Aug 22nd, 2018 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Ever so slightly behind Henry VIII....

    Aug 22nd, 2018 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    @PG

    “I welcome the hour of the debate for the definitive separation of Church and State.”

    Isn't it great this growing consensus to finally have a state that considers citizens all equal independently of their beliefs?

    Unfortunately, PG seizes the opportunity to try and make some hay from the fact that CFK declared herself against abortion and did not foster its legalization when in government - which is true.

    “The sad role of Peronism will once again be in evidence,” PG proclaimed.

    Unfortunately for PG, the recent failed attempt to make pregnancy termination a safe and legal process did have the support of a finally convinced senator Cristina Fernandez and many Peronists - but failed to pass due to majority opposition from Cambiemos senators and Macri's public opposition- something PG's selective memory has chosen to ignore.

    I do acknowledge the Kirchnerist law in regards to opening the door to religious education -- that should have never happened.

    In any event, the torch has now been passed on and president Macri has an opportunity to, at long last, sever the numerous ties between the Argentine state and the Church.

    I am not holding my breath though.

    Aug 22nd, 2018 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Mr. Voice...

    Ever so slightly after Margrethe II..., Carl XVI Gustav... and Harald V..., just to name a few...

    “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”... (Don Corleone...;-)

    Aug 22nd, 2018 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • pgerman

    @Enrique

    It is more than clear that many of the representatives, and senators, of “Cambiemos” front voted against the legalization of abortion. The “worst” example of this is the Senator Bullrich who belongs to Opus Dei. Some FPV representatives, and senators, also voted against the project. Not to mention Peronist Urtubey’s shameful and degrading speech to women dignity (he belongs to Opus Dei too). Actually, both attitudes, for and against, abortion legalization “crossed” all the parliamentary “blocks” dividing them as seldom in the history of the country.

    There were memorable speeches by representatives of “Cambiemos” in favor of the legalization of abortion in the debate. Many ministers declared themselves in favor of legalization too.

    President Macri, despite declaring himself against abortion, has the merit of having allowed the debate in Congress and having given “freedom of conscience” to Cambiemos members.

    Macri has the “extenuating” fact that he had never presented himself as a “revolutionary” to the public opinion (nor did he pretend to represent the poor). He was “accused” of being the return of the “ancient regime”, an authoritarian, conservative and misogynist regime, by the opposition press. All of them have to shut up ...

    It is also true that Macri declared himself in favor of the “decriminalization” of abortion. That would be a small “step forward” as it ceases to be illegal and a crime (although without the medical coverage of the State). The draft of the new Penal Code has been “frozen” in Congress momentarily waiting for the introduction of the decriminalization of abortion by his direct order.

    I have been in Bs As recently and I could see, with great joy, that young people of both sexes proudly wear green and orange handkerchiefs. Soon those young people will be adults and new adolescents will join the “green wave” and the “orange wave” ... Clearly, it is a matter of time.

    Aug 22nd, 2018 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Bongo

    Running away from the church just because you don't get permission to slaughter your babies is a childish and knee-jerk response. Alas, it's all too symptomatic of this 21st Century make-up-the-morality-that-suits-you ideology that's so prevalent in the West.

    On the other hand, it can be argued that separation of church and state guarantees freedom of religion. I'd be interested to know if anyone in Argentina who is, say, a Methodist, muslim or Jehovah's Witness is labouring under any specific disadvantages or persecutions as a result of the country's Catholic majority.

    Aug 23rd, 2018 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jo Bloggs

    Bongo

    Running to the church just because you’re too blinded by the myths and you don’t have the sense to use contraception is dim-witted. It’s all too symptomatic of the 20th century: let some priest tell you that morality means Christianity.

    On the other hand it can be argued that separation of the church and the State guarantees freedom for atheists to state their beliefs without fear of persecutions as a result of countrys’ illogical (in the 21st century) links to churches.

    Aug 24th, 2018 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @Bongo

    It is quite simple: the separation of the Church from the State means no people's money spent on religious subsidies and no any need of Catholic Church's “greenlight” to have new laws passed.

    Aug 24th, 2018 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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