Monday, March 29th 2010 - 18:34 UTC

Falklands: “no return to the 80s”, tacit UK/Argentine agreement

Foreign Office minister Chris Bryant said that UK and Argentina agree there is “no return to the eighties” regarding the Falkland Islands which he underlined are British as long as the Islanders so wish.

Chris Bryant says relations with Argentina are very close and strong

In an interview with the Mexican daily Excelsior, Bryant also revealed he has had talks with Argentina’s Foreign Affairs minister Jorge Taiana and relations with Buenos Aires, with the exception of the Falklands/Malvinas issue are very good and strong.

In perfect Spanish he also recommended Latinamerican countries to “open up” and stop blaming the US and Europe for all their problems. “Let’s face it, the anti Yank spirit does not help lift the poor or build hospitals”.

“We won the (1982) conflict and have had problems with Argentina for the last thirty years over the Falklands’ sovereignty, but as a country and as democrats we believe in self determination, and if the people of the Islands want to remain British, that is their choice and we will always support them”, said Bryant who insisted that “we have no doubts as to whom the Falklands belong”. Besides in the European Union Lisbon Treaty “it is clearly spelled out that the Falklands belong to Britain”.

He added that trade relations with Argentina remain very strong and good and both countries are working closely in many world affairs and challenges. “PM Gordon Brown and President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner work very closely in the G20 framework, UK and Argentina are strong allies; we only have this little problem over the Falklands”.

Bryant pointed out that contrary to media frondose coverage “there’s no return to the eighties. I was told so by Argentine politicians; Mrs. Kichner never said she’s planning to block the Falklands, so the situation is much calmer than what your read. The Falklands as such don’t belong to us but the people democratically want to be British and we respect and support that”.

The Foreign Office minister revealed he has a fluid dialogue with the Argentines: “I met and talked with Jorge Taiana during the inauguration of President Piñera in Chile. We have an active ambassador in Buenos Aires in regular contact; they have a consular officer in London; we are all the time in contact”.

When asked about the recent Latinamerican and Caribbean leaders’ summit with strong support for Argentina, Bryant said “it’s normal. Since we have no doubts about the Falklands we don’t need any lobbying. Besides this year is the independence bicentennial of several of the region’s countries and the British helped with that struggle. For the last 200 years we have had very close links with many Latinamerican countries (Chile, Brazil) among others; we are working with Colombia and Venezuela in drugs control…”

Bryant recalled he spent six months in Buenos Aires in 1986, “I loved the city and love the Argentine spirit. I know all of (folklorist) Mercedes Sosa’ songs and play them in the guitar”. That was four years after the war, “so I understand very well when my Argentine colleagues say no return to the eighties”.
Finally FCO Minister Bryant was asked about Latinamerica and the future.
“In my personal opinion one of the main problems in Latinamerica for the last fifty years has been that they blame their problems on the US and Europe. I’d say the anti-Yank spirit is useless: it doesn’t help to lift the poor or build hospitals. Latinamerica has to open to the world, economically, politically, socially. You have to look inside to solve your own problems, not criticizing the US or Europe”.

However he added that countries such as Mexico and Brazil have very strong and solid economies and will grow sustainedly. “Their importance and influence in world affairs is going to increase, but I still feel there’s in Latinamerica an anti Yank stance which is totally distractive and non helpful”.
 

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1 ed (#) Mar 29th, 2010 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
1764 :: first French settlements...

1766 :: first British settlements..Spain requisition of French colony..

1767 :: Spanish requisition of Frenchs under control of B.Aires Admin..

1770 :: Spain expell British Colony ...

1771 :: Anglo-Spanish treaty allows British to return colony...

1774 :: British withdrawal from the colony...

1776 :: British leave plaque to assert claim on abondoned colony..

1811 :: Spanish withdrawal from Colony...

1816 :: Un.Prov.of South America leaves from Spain ...

1820 :: flag of Argentina raised on the islands...

1828 :: Argentine setlements colony founded...

1831 :: US warships destroy the settlements...

1832 :: Argentina sends another Governor who killed in mutiny...

1833 :: British Forces return to islands to grab...
2 gdr (#) Mar 29th, 2010 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
now

2010 :: British drilling sea bottom to grab the World's Core Center...
3 jorge! (#) Mar 29th, 2010 - 09:55 pm Report abuse
You are right comment 1 and 2.
This guy Bryant is programmed to say “”we have no doubts as to whom the Falklands belong“”.
He doesn't believe that!
4 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Mar 29th, 2010 - 10:19 pm Report abuse
I think he does Jorge? He kinda bases his opinion on what really matters, the opinion of the Falkland islanders. openly gya Christain socialist who opposed the war in Iraq oh dear!

Anyway such humiliation for Argentina! machismo must be really on the slide, you've been dictated foreign affairs by a gay junior minster!

Really shows how much we take your rantings and ravings! You have to deploy el presidente and most of the Argentine diplomatic corps to lobby for support. Us well we have Chris Bryant and the people who really matter the Falklands Legislative assembly, no need for Gordo B and the full might of the commonwealth and Foreign affairs office
5 jorge! (#) Mar 29th, 2010 - 11:14 pm Report abuse
LOL. Bob Marley non-stop!!!!
6 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:39 am Report abuse
Hey ed .... still not learning eh?

1690 – the waterway between the two islands is named ‘Falkland Sound’ by Captain John Strong from the ship Welfare.

1712 – the name ‘Falkland Islands’ is used in a publication describing the Welfare’s journey.

1716 – a French map refers to the islands as ‘Les Isles Nouvelles’.

1722 – a new French map refers to the islands as ‘Les Iles Malouines’.

1764 – France founds a settlement on the Falkland Islands at Port Loius but makes no formal claim.

1765 – Captain John Byron explores the islands and claims them for King George III Falkland Islands.

1766 – Captain John MacBride founds the settlement of Port Egmont , named after the sponsor of the Byron expedition. Cattle, goats, sheep and pigs taken to the islands.

1767 – France cedes Port Louis to Spain in exchange for compensation. Port Louis is renamed Puerto Soledad. Captain John McBride of HMS Jason is Military Commander of Port Egmont.

1768 – Captain Rayner is Military Commander of Port Egmont.

1769 – Captain Anthony Hunt, HMS Tamar is Military Commander of Port Egmont. (Nov) Hunt requires a Spanish schooner seen surveying the area, to leave. The Governor of Puerto Soledad objects, stating that the islands are Spanish. Captain Hunt responds by indicating that the islands are British by right of first discovery and settlement [Samuel Johnson]

1770 – Hunt returns to Britain leaving Captain Farmer in command of the garrison. (June) Hunt brings the first message of Spanish claims to the government. (4th) 5 frigates, 1600 men, 27 cannon, 4 mortars and 200 bombs under the command of Madariaga arrive from Buenos Aries to force the British to leave. (10th) A few shots are exchanged and the British commander capitulates. (Aug) Madrid receives notice of the action. (Oct) Britain confirms the information and prepares for war. Negotiations between the British and Spanish courts commence.

1771 - Without French support the Spanish back down and the Ambassador to Britain (?), Prince M
7 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:40 am Report abuse
Prince Masseran delivers a declaration stating that the Spanish King “disavows the violent enterprise of Buccarelli,” and promises “to restore the port and fort called Egmont, with all the artillery and stores, according to the inventory.” The injury was acknowledged and satisfied. The Spanish stated that their ‘satisfaction’ did not “ … preclude the question of prior right …” This preservation of a Spanish claim caused an outcry in Britain in answer to which Samuel Johnson prepared his ‘Thoughts on the Late Transactions Respecting Falkland’s Islands 1771’. The British return to Port Egmont. Spain also maintains its settlement at Puerto Soledad, administered by Buenos Aries.

1776 – Britain evacuates the islands due to the political unrest in North America, leaving behind a lead plaque stating the British claim to the islands. British whaling ships and sealers continue to use the islands and set up temporary settlements.

1775 – Britain claims sovereignty over South Georgia following the first landing by Captain James Cook.

1790 – Nootka Sound Convention No.1 (The Treaty of San Lorenzo) signed by Britain and Spain. The Treaty applied to North and South America and its ‘adjacent’ islands. [This places limitations on settlements but also includes a clause voiding the limitations if another ‘power’ builds any settlement. There is both some doubt as to this convention’s applicability to the Falklands (adjacent?) and some suggestion that Spain subsequently uses Nootka Sound to reinterpret the 1771 agreement ??]

1795 – Nootka Sound Convention repudiated by Spain (?)

1805 – Spanish maps start to refer to the islands as the ‘Malvinas’.

1810 – Buenos Aries forms its own ‘junta’ to pursue independence from Spain.

1811 – Spain evacuates the islands due to unrest in its colonies. It also leaves a plaque stating its claim. Puerto Soledad falls into disuse. [No suggestion of Spanish ships visiting the port – not maintaining = ‘abandonment’ (?)]

1816 – United Provinces of S
8 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:41 am Report abuse
South America formally declares independence from Spain. [Argentina would form from most, but not all, of these ‘Provinces’]

1820 – (Oct) the Buenos Aries pirate/privateer Colonel David Jewett (American) reaches the islands after an unrewarding expedition to prey on Spanish ships. He finds 50 British and US sealing ships at anchor (?). (Nov) Jewett claims to have a commission to ‘take possession’ of the islands for the United Provinces of South America/Rio de la Plata to whom they belong under ‘Natural Law’ (?). He raises the flag of the United Provinces but fails to inform Buenos Aries. He gives a letter containing the claim to James Weddell, a British explorer/seal hunter. [Weddell did not believe that Jewett was acting in the interests of the United Provinces but was in fact attempting to insure an exclusive claim over the wreck of a French ship. Stated in Weddell’s biography (?) There is no indication of any settlement but if so his settlement does not void the Nootka Sound Convention limitations, as per the secret clause, as Argentina is not recognized by either Spain or Britain and is therefore not a ‘power’.]

1821 – Jewett seizes a US ship, the Rampart, in an act of piracy causing a diplomatic incident and is relieved of his command. Jewett’s letter is published in London. Buenos Aries makes no official announcement. [Britain has not recognized Argentina’s independence and so there are no diplomatic relations between the two countries at this time.]

1824 - Luis Vernet sends an expedition to the islands to hunt wild cattle and seals under the command of (?) Pablo Areguati. Vernet asks the Government of Buenos Aries for an official title/rank for Areguati but it is not granted. The expedition fails.

1825 – Britain recognizes Argentina’s independence from Spain.

1826 – (June) Vernet goes to the islands in an attempt to recoup his losses. Vernet approaches the British Consul and requests permission to form a settlement (?) This was granted provided he sent
9 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:41 am Report abuse
regular reports.

1828 – (January 5th) Vernet requests (and is given) a grant of land on East Falkland by the Buenos Aries Government. (January 30th) Vernet asks the British for their approval of the land grant which is signed by the Vice Consul on the 30th. Britain protests the grant of land by Buenos Aries. [On this occasion Vernet’s settlement does not void the Nootka Sound Convention limitations, as per the secret clause, because Vernet is acting in a private capacity i.e a business venture.]

1829 – (June) The Buenos Aries Government under Juan Lavelle announces the ‘Political and Military Command of the Malvinas’ and gives Vernet the title of ‘civil and military commandant of Puerto Luis’ (Puerto Soledada) (?). The British Consul protests and restates the previous British claim. [Now that Vernet is acting in an official capacity on behalf of Argentina his settlement voids the Nootka Sound Convention limitations, as per the secret clause, because Argentina is now recognized by Britain as a country and not part of Spain. This breach allows Britain to act (?) although the Lavalle government’s actions are subsequently declared null and void by the next administration in Buenos Aries. There is also a suggestion that Vernet repudiates his title to the British (?)]

1831 – Back on the islands, Vernet seizes three US ships accusing them of ‘illegal sealing’. This is regarded by the United States as an act of piracy. (November) Vernet returns to Buenos Aries. The US Consul in Buenos Aries protests and states that the US does not recognize Argentine sovereignty in the Falklands. (December) the USS Lexington arrives in the islands and ‘arrests’ 6 or 7 (?) of Vernet’s crew [the Lexington raid]. The prisoners and some 40 settlers leave with the Americans. Remaining is a settlement of 24 people.

1832 – (August) The Admiralty in London issue orders for the islands to be visited annually to reinforce British rights and prevent foreign forces establishing themselves on the is
10 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:42 am Report abuse
islands (?). (October) Buenos Aries sends a garrison of 26 soldiers to the Falkland Islands under Major Esteban Mestivier. Britain protests. (Nov) The Argentine garrison mutinies and kills Mestivier.

1833 – (January) Argentine garrison ejected by British forces from HMS Clio. 22 of Vernet’s settlers remain as British subjects. William Dixon (Arg/Irish) appointed as British Representative. (March) HMS Beagle visits the islands and Charles Darwin records the make-up of the remaining settlers in his diary. Vernet sends 6 more settlers under his deputy, Matthew Brisbane, to join the others residents taking the numbers to 29. Argentina protests the British ejection of its garrison and states it’s claim to the islands in the annual ‘Message to Congress’ [and continues to do so every year till 1849].

1834 – (January) Lieutenant Henry Smith is sent as the “resident naval officer” responsible for the administration of the Falkland Islands.

1838 – Argentina offers to abandon it’s claim to the Falklands in exchange for the cancelation of a large national debt owed to Barings Bank.

1841 – The administration of the islands is taken over by a British ‘Lieutenant Governor’, Lt Richard Moody.

1849 – The “Convention between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation, for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship” is signed. [This is regularly described as a peace treaty. Argentina makes no mention of the Falkland Islands but the Treaty ‘settles all disputes’ (?)]

1850 – Buenos Aries ratifies the treaty and makes no further claim regarding the islands in the ‘Message to Congress’. [for 91 years]

1859 – Spain formally recognizes Argentina’s independence.

1882 – the ‘Latzina’ map, financed by the Argentine Foreign Ministry and distributed to Argentine consulates worldwide, shows the Falkland Islands as NOT being part of Argentina.

1884 – Argentina protests against the actions of the USS Lexington fifty-three years earlier to the United St
11 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:43 am Report abuse
States. The Argentine Geographical Institute includes the Falkland Islands on a map of Argentine territory leading to protests by Britain.

1885 – Argentina’s protests regarding the actions of USS Lexington are dismissed by US President Cleveland.

1888 – Argentina protests the possession of the Falkland Islands in a letter to the British Government. [no mention at the annual ‘Message to Congress’]

1906 – An Argentine whaling company, the “Compañia Argentina de Pesca”, takes out a lease, from Britain, over land on South Georgia [apparently Argentina bases its claim to South Georgia on this ‘lease’ (?)].

1908 – Britain formally states it’s claim to the South Sandwich Islands and annexes them, together with South Georgia. Argentina registers no objection.

1941 – The Argentine President, President Roberto María Ortiz, restates Argentina’s claim in his ‘Message to Congress’ for the first time since 1849.

1947 – Argentina claims South Georgia. As a result Britain offers to take the matter to the International Court of Justice. Argentina refuses.

1951 – Britain offers to take the dispute over South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands to the International Court of Justice. Argentina refuses.

1953 – Britain re-offers to take the dispute to the ICJ. Argentina refuses.

1954 – Britain re-offers to take the dispute to the ICJ. Argentina refuses

1982 - military forces sent by Argentina to enforce their claim are ejected by British forces.
12 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 12:45 am Report abuse
Sorry for having to repeat myself but such is the way when dealing with the deaf. The occassional (?) are there to indicate references I need to research more.

Grasped anything yet ed, jorgie boy, gdr ??
13 gdr (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 10:27 am Report abuse
comment(#1) = comments (#6,7,8,9,10,11 except 1832 hushing)
14 J.A. Roberts (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 10:30 am Report abuse
gdr, there is no such thing as a “hushing”.
15 Hoytred (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 10:58 am Report abuse
Sorry ed, you're not talking english as I know it, but that aside I can't see what your dispute is. You appear to agree with everything except 1832?

You have = “ 1832 :: Argentina sends another Governor who killed in mutiny...”

I have = ” (October) Buenos Aries sends a garrison of 26 soldiers to the Falkland Islands under Major Esteban Mestivier. Britain protests. (Nov) The Argentine garrison mutinies and kills Mestivier.”

Doesn't seem to be much difference ??

If you agree with everything else, then there's no problem.
16 gdr (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 01:34 pm Report abuse
ok ! correction :

comment(#1) = comments (# 6,7,8,9,10,11)
except 1832 : intrigues , lies, concealed documents to grab the islands !
17 LegionNi (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:14 pm Report abuse
16gdr “except 1832 : intrigues , lies, concealed documents to grab the islands !”

Can you supply proof for the above claim?

Argentina gave up any claim it might have had on the Falklands in the “Convention between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation, for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship” which was signed on 24 November 1849 and ratified by both s ides in Buenos Aires on 15 May 1850. The Convention settled all existing differences between Argentina and Great Britain. There is no mention of the Falklands which Britain was in possession of in the text so Argentina didn't see it as a difference at the time, therefore they recognised Great Britains sovereignty of the island.
18 gdr (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
can you supply proof for the above claim ?

no one can supply the proofs related to concealed documents ..
also 200 years old events !..i don't think British Offical(!) Archives
have any detailed events !?..sensations are more important for us !!
this is not Law War ;just Strategical War !

1850 conventions , ratifications , treaties are not important becouse
in general : the governments' decisions could not be true in anytimes ..
please search the outcomes of those years' governings notably in the 19. century in Argentina !!

i mean that do not trust anywhere ..if you default in anything,anywhere,anytime you might be clutter !

this is not menace this is real world orders !
19 Rhaurie-Craughwell (#) Mar 30th, 2010 - 08:35 pm Report abuse
Ah yes GDR and Argentina despite not being Argentina at moment of said aquisiation has these official docuements then?

But thanks for clarifying that events of 200 years don't matter, in thats case look forward to you excepting the islanders inalienable rights to self determination and thus freedom to decide their own future free from the threat of Imperialist rule from Argentina!
20 Hoytred (#) Mar 31st, 2010 - 12:24 am Report abuse
gdr - ” ... comment(#1) = comments (# 6,7,8,9,10,11)
except 1832 : intrigues , lies, concealed documents to grab the islands ! ”

Well thank you gdr, if you accept the rest then you must accept that the islands were British territory in 1832 and that the British were acting within their rights to eject the invading Argentine force !
21 gdr (#) Mar 31st, 2010 - 07:00 am Report abuse
well ,

we accept British as Guest Settlers since 1833 !!
22 J.A. Roberts (#) Mar 31st, 2010 - 12:37 pm Report abuse
Oh GDR, is that what the Mapuche and Tehuelche did in 1878, accept you Argentines as guest settlers in their land?
23 jorge! (#) Mar 31st, 2010 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
che gdr, estos le ven siempre el pelo al huevo, no tiene caso.

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