Argentina prepares to begin drilling in Malvinas basin in second half of 2010
Towards the end of the year Argentina’s YPF in association with Pan American Energy and Petrobras will begin exploring for oil in the Malvinas basin, following the contract for an oil rig which has been signed, according to oil industry sources in Buenos Aires.
The high risk operation will be under control of YPF which holds a 33.5% stake in the operation while Pan American Energy has another 33.5% and Petrobras, 33%.
The initial outlay for this coming summer’s drilling including the provision of supplies is estimated in 150 million US dollars.
In the so called Malvinas basin at different times “a total of 20 wells have been drilled, of which five showed signals of hydrocarbons presence and two of them in significant volumes but not sufficient to sustain a commercial exploitation”.
According to the reports the area where the oil rig is to operate is to the southwest of the Falklands/Malvinas, next to the former Falklands/Argentina Hydrocarbons Cooperation zone, which was agreed in September 1996 following the so called New York Act.
The understanding was agreed under the administration of former president Carlos Menem and his Foreign Affairs minister Guido di Tella.
However in 2007 former president Nestor Kirchner, the husband of Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, disavowed the joint oil exploration agreements.
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“The area where the oil rig is to operate is to the southwest of the Falklands/Malvinas”
The Malvinas current flows north east incidentally.
Hmmmmm....
That's the appropriate diplomatic action, I'm told.
Pot ----> Kettle.
Pot ----> Kettle.
Win-Win situation for Argentina with BP
If they are lucky, we share the oil monies ...
If not, well....... then the Spanish will not need to use so much Olive oil to fry their “Calamares” :-)
And.........Since when is it “British Petroleum” again?
Every Briton in here has explained us “ignorant Argies” the “in-existence” of that name.
It's B (ig) P (roblem), mate
Well, all this talk about Malvinas Oil could be soon be over if this guy is half right !!
Ayyyy diós mio ... Que desastre!
www.theoildrum.com/node/6593#comment-648967
I'm glad I don't own any Off Shore oil shares
[Falklands oil drilling]...represent an environmental threat not only for Argentina but also for the rest of the countries of South America”, said Timerman.
The argentine government are hypocrites.
One rule for them, one rule for everyone else. Just like that self-determination to be independant from spain ha ha!
And don't be modest... You britons are“”The Grand Old Masters” at hipocrisy.
We have al long way to go..... but we are learning fast. (from you)
The UK started the Oil race hiding back the self-determination rights of the settlers.
Well, they got a race...... and a bigger problem than before...
I hope so :-)
Argentina has the right to approve drilling in certain waters and the FIG has the right to approve drilling in certain waters. If there are commercial finds in both regions then it could benefit both parties (and eventual production companies) as much of the infrastructure can be consolidated with bilateral investment. This would save both parties significant sums on their overheads, increase comerciality, drive up profits and therefore tax revenue for the Argentine Government and FIG.
Everybody wins. Much better than arguing or as Billy Hayes wants some from of military conflict.
Not quite right....
Argentina has the “uncontested” right to drill in certain areas.
Not even Britain is contesting that. It is not an “Issue” for investors.
UK/FIG have a “contested” right to drill in certain areas.
Argentina and her regional allies are contesting that right. It is an “Issue” for investors.
I would absolutely prefer a World moratorium on Deepwater drilling.
If that doesn't materialize, then we will have to continue making British business in the area as unprofitable as possible.
It appears to the rest of the world like a petty fit of pique. It’s like a child that lets down your tyres because you wouldn’t give them a lift to school.
There are many basins North Falkland Basin, SouthFalkland Basin, Falkland Plateau Basin, Malvinas Basin.
Argentina can only drill in the Malvinas Basin based as its in both waters and a small part of the North Falkland Basin. If Argentina worked together with the Falklanders then it would be benificial for both sides, as per the previous agreement that they ripped up, if they dont help then it just means a slightly small hit of profits for the oil companies drilling in the falklands and nothing for Argentina. No shouting or crying or even military is going to allow the falklanders to be claimed by Argentina, so why not get on with it and use that money to sort out real problems in Argentina?
I could say the same about 'disputed territory' ..... only for you. WE DON”T CARE :-)
You say:
”Do you think that making things more expensive for the islanders will help your cause in any way?”
I have already answered this question many times but......, then again, just for you:
Most of the population of Malvinas (2.478; thanks Emma) is, after nearly 30 years of economical bonanza and heavy subsidies, gone soft.
Those are not my words, just ask the old geezers in Malvinas.
Or our sociologists.....
By breaking up the economical fundament of the Islands we attempt to achieve a situation similar to the one that existed before 1982.
Most of the “Newcomers” will leave voluntarily fairly quickly, when their “business” no longer exists.
Many “Hardliners” will stay, at the beginning, but as the case is in Patagonia, lots of them will “sacrifice their love for the place” to give their family and children a better life.
The “Rest Group” can and surely will be heavily subsidized by the UK, creating an artificial subemployed State Run Economy ............. with all the problems that implies.... At home and abroad....
Good with all those Pubs in Stanley
You asked....
This is my answer.
Ps:
I have already gotten all those standard replies as “Even if all leave, the Islands will still be British” etc etc etc.......Please spare me......
(15) Hoyt
We know You (not US but UK :-) don’t care...
That’s why We are taking care....
Argentina ripped up the agreement to co-operate on oil discovery, mainly it would be sent to Argentina, if this is not the case it will just cost more to pipe it somewhere else or take it in ships. But if oil is found and when that happens the Falklanders will be making money from the oil licences they give to to multinational oil companies, who will find somewhere of refining it/piping it somewhere. Whats likely to happen is all of the relevant oil companies set up on the Falklands. So by ripping up the agreement it will only help the Falklands economy.
GDP Per Capita for Argentina is $8,235. GDP Per Capita for a Falkland Islands is $ 35,400. Thats is more than 4 times as much, I doubt there will be a case of Falkland Islands being less than Argentina no matter what Argentina do.
Why not stop bothering the islanders and spend the time and effort that you all put into 'claiming' the Falklands into something worthwhile, rasing your GDP, helping your poor, all them drug addicts, etc. etc...
Think, let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that ALL the islander's left .... what makes you think that the British Government would relinquish sovereignty?
After all, the islands remain both a useful military training area and a stepping stone to the Antartic! And of course, we have no doubt about our sovereignty!
If you want economic comparissons please start looking at Tierra del Fuego; there you will find some interesting data.
PS: Actualy Argentina per capita GDP is something like $14500
But please start looking at Tierra del Fuego parameters, you will be surprised.
marketing.iprofesional.com/notas/100720-En-2011-Tierra-del-Fuego-tendra-un-nuevo-shopping.html
Let me give you this link
As for that startling new flash revelation that Tierra del Fuego is building a shopping Mall are the number of shopping malls now a factor in deciding sovereignty? As are Highways and the state of ones roads.
checked out the economic comparisons in TDF, nothing interesting there at all economically a nice ski slope in Ushia, pity the way they its run is so amateurish, and the recent suicide of the fishing industry and the withdrawal of most of the military factor of the economy so whats exciting down there? Minerals and eeeer mountains? Trouble is your infrastructure in that region you can't even export the former to your own country.
So Mr economist got any thing more intelligent to say or will you be still fantasizing about being a heroic super soldier in an imaginary 2nd Falklands war?
Your economy is insignificant to us!
I am saying the amount of money, time and effort argentina and its people spends on making noises, crying, waging war, trying to make it hard for the Falkland Islanders would be better spent helping the poor in argentina.
I say...What sources? I have read the papers here and I didn't find anything about.
as for the insignificance of their economy and not paying for your poor: 60 billion barrels of oil @ $80 each=$45 trillion, your current estimated poverty rate (i say estimated since your government gets cold feet about releasing true figures) is about 1/4 of the population= 10 million your average GDP is about $14,500, so the poor would get less than that, thus if we allocate a small % of that to the islanders lets say enough to weather them through a recession for 100 years and enough to for the military base for 100 years = 20 billion so the islander could quite happily send cheques to each of your poor and their descendants every year for the next hundred years for $1 million each it's going to cost roughly 10 trillion so what to do with the next 30 trillion, a Brian transplant for Senor Jorge Rios perhaps they could even buy you and keep you in a zoo along with other insane Malvinists repeating the same shite ad nauseum like this: www.moneystance.com/images/parrot.JPG
I will send your family it's cheques in 5 years time when the first commercial quantities of oil start producing, who knows what your family could do for you a new braincell perhaps?
xxxxxxx
All you are doing is gaining some sort of misplaced satisfaction by imposing problems on a society that utterly rejects you.
We do because we can and things will go even worse send the message to London Please.
Argentina´s actual goal is to make britain leave south atlantic, kelpers independence, I think, is an option.
No I do not live in the Islands...
Do you?...
About subsidies.... a few examples “from the top of my head”:
Is it two or three air tickets a year any Malvinense studying in UK gets free per year?..... (what does a ticket costs nowadays 3-4000 Pounds?)
How much does it cost to transport one seriously sick/ injured patient to be treated at a London hospital...... (try 40-50.000 Pounds, special price for you, my friend)
How much are you paying to the constant stream of consultants, experts, specialists, councillors etc?........ (try 2-4 times the UK rates.)
And I could go on and on and on.......
You got plenty of money from the Squid business and you use it generously.......
So don’t give me that about “No Subsidies”.....
In regard to our other problems in Argentina.... we are solving those parallel to the Malvinas issue.
You are just a constant source of irritation and we would like to get rid of you sooner today than tomorrow.
(18) Hoyt
I’ll answer you later on......
Especially a British population. We're too stubborn. ww2 for example, we could have caled a ceasefire with the nazis, but we didn't, even with london getting bombed day and night. You seriously underestimate our stubborness.
It will never work. The more you alienate them the stronger their resolve will become.
You ask:
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that ALL the islander's left .... what makes you think that the British Government would relinquish sovereignty?
After all, the islands remain both a useful military training area and a stepping-stone to the Antarctic! And of course, we have no doubt about our sovereignty!
I say:
The British Government will certainly try not to relinquish sovereignty.....
They would, at long last, be flying the Union Jack and not hiding back the kilts of 2.500 settlers self-determination right.
Your real intentions would be evident for anybody and ..................
C’mon.... I feel foolish..... You are one of the few intelligent guys in here.... don’t make me waste pixels........
It would be
Checkmate in four moves!
A family living on benefits is being housed in a seven-bedroom home at a cost to taxpayers of £147,000 a year.
How much does it cost to transport one seriously sick/ injured patient to be treated at a London hospital...... (try 40-50.000 Pounds, special price for you, my friend)
Drop in the ocean twink:-)
Until 1982, Argentina had (and apparently still has) a commercial agreement with BP - actually Shell BP - consisting in paying with Argentine lightweight oils (good for obtaining highly volatile fuels such as high octane petrol and jet paraffins, but bad to get heavier fuels, even diesel, and asphalts) the catalisers that were needed at YPF's and others' cracking plants. This agreement was honoured along all the time that war raged with stupid loss of lives to both sides.
So, it is my feeling that there's nothing to write home about, if Argentine firms can now associate with a BP owned or partly owned company, to drill on sites adjacent to those that are being drilled by other oil companies in the neighbourhood of these disputed territories.
Cheers!
”Drop in the ocean twink:-) “
Sounds as intelligent as Tony Hayward's famous ”Drop in the Gulf Ocean” comment during the first days of the spill........
Maybe we can spare some cash for the Falklanders out of this budget,they are oversea's afterall
www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23847434-britain-tops-overseas-aid-report.do
For your kind info:
BP has already decided to sell their shares in Pan American Energy to the other partners months ago.
In line with the political and economical realities of today's Argentina .
But, of course this kind of info is NOT on the first 3 lines of your browser when you google.
You have to work a little bit harder Sir.
Thanks but I seldom google. Just bringing a bit of history back, vis á vis the current association of PAE+Petrobras+YPF.
By the way, 'petrobras' sounds to me a as kind of tradename for a conspicuous female garment... :-)
You said it mate... History......
B(ig) P(roblem) is history at PAE and BRIDAS and who knows where else.....
Your “Oil Wiz” Kids went too far this time, became too greedy, too self-confident.
Things are moving down here.
But not your way....
Anymore thoughts on how the Falklanders are draining the UK twink?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194445/Cost-keeping-failed-asylum-seekers-soared-4m-73m-just-FOUR-years-Minister-admits.html
FIG pays for the education of Falkland Islanders not the British Government. The FIG pays for the consultants it uses.
Perhaps they would turn to South America, were it not for that bully on the door step.
If there is an exploitable source, good luck to the companies involved. Rather suspect however, its more for domestic political reasons than real prospects.
Do you take the trouble of reading what other people write?
Here is what I wrote at (28):
”About subsidies.... a few examples “from the top of my head”:
Is it two or three air tickets a year any Malvinense studying in UK gets free per year?..... (what does a ticket costs nowadays 3-4000 Pounds?)
How much does it cost to transport one seriously sick/ injured patient to be treated at a London hospital...... (try 40-50.000 Pounds, special price for you, my friend)
How much are you paying to the constant stream of consultants, experts, specialists, councillors etc?........ (try 2-4 times the UK rates.)
And I could go on and on and on.......
You got plenty of money from the Squid business and you use it generously.......
So don’t give me that about “No Subsidies”.....“”“”
I know and I refer that the subsidies are paid from squid money by the FIG.
And big subsidies they are.
No matter where the money comes from anyway, the Islanders are heavily subsidized and that makes them vulnerable.
No amount of creative bookkeeping will change that.
Children who qualify and meet the standard for overseas flights cost the Education dept about£2500 per year- not per flight. That is NOT a subsidy - it is reality! - with 3000 population we cannot do tecnical colleges/universites here so students have to go overseas - reality not a subsidy.
Yes Arg is freely entitled to drill SW of us in that area. WE will be interested in the Oil Drill Companies PREDRILL Environmental Impact Statement and how your Govt assess it though - as we would be downstream of any polluition problem. Does your Govt even bother with these things?
All Companies here have to have one and it is well studied and we make sure it meets the highest safety and environmental standards in the world - European North Sea ones. God Forbid but if any disaster it would be very unlikley to affect your coastline.
Oil Companies drill offshore here in waters that FAkland Islands Govt(NOT UK) is entitled to licence to them, Neither these nor the majors if they come in later if commercial development starts have any problem about that.
I cannot figure out why some of you cannot get it that Falkland Islands Govt has control and jurisdiction over offshore AND onshore minerals here, NOT-repeat-NOT UK - we are NOT-repeat-NOT a Colony any more!!!
Think - totally agree with you on deepsea drilling.
The Camp is empty man....
Have you been to GG lately?
Camp is for picnicking .........and back to Stanley.
You don't want to call the direct and indirect subsidies for subsidies?
Ok with me....
Their social effect is the same.
[their called the Dentist] lololol
Medical treatment to UK - cost the flight £1500 return and maybe a bit of assistance with lodgings there - no more. Sorry I forgot your Govt prefers to let its people die in the street and never provides education either? me thinks what our Govt gives money towards is not much different to what yours does - or the medical insurance companies you pay into over there-we pay higher taxes to the state instead.. I guess the “social effect” -your words - of Govt spending on infrastructure and education etc in say TDF is NOT a “subsidy”??
Coulnot finish my first post on deep Wells - they shouldbe stopped for a while as the Industry has clearly shown it has not got back ups to well head saftey failures at depth yet. My understanding is that ours to the NE here are tecnically in shallow water for the industry, the ones due end 2010/early 2011 SouthWest are in deeper water though. Dont know about your side of the line.
Money from the Squid business - that is pretty low these last few years - but we manage with less. Yes correct our Govt has had to learn to be a bit wiser in what and how it spends - so have many.
back what a new day dawns adios my friends,
Checkmate in four moves! ”
Actually I really doubt it. Look back over the centuries and you see that Britain has threatened Spain with war (1770/1) and acted promptly on the two occassions that Argentina attempted to take over the islands (1832/1982). We see their future importance!
What the world view is would not be irrelevant but would also probably not be important enough for the UK to bow to pressure.
Now the Antartic is the future issue that will energise the world and it'll depend on how important the Falkland islands are viewed in that context. This I guarantee, if the Falklands were handed over, there would be no corresponding handover of South Georgia or the South Sandwich Islands (already split away in case the Islander's change their minds?) however the Falklands offer more habitable facilities so no, I can't see Argentina getting them even if all that was left were penguins!
Check
I think thast kelper nation should look around.
TDF is a south atlantic island like Malvinas with less resources; the only difference is the political status, no colonial, free.
TDF GDP $2.800.000.000
Fkelpl GDP $105.000.000
The difference in money is at your societity & shareholders loss.
We don´t want your busineses, for business are ok, I don´t think Argentina want taxes about them. In oil pipes.
I think that the only way to solve the dispute is trading britain leaving x independence.
www.nuestromar.org/noticias/transporte_maritimo_y_fluvial/01_07_2010/31497_barco_que_abastece_malvinas_suspende_linea_a
Now we talk!
(Hope the “turnips” in here don’t get too angry at you...)
You say:
....Britain has threatened Spain with war (1770/1) and acted promptly on the two occasions that Argentina attempted to take over the Islands (1832/1982). We see their future importance!
I say:
Argentina sees it too, so does Chile and Brazil. Our Antarctic claims superimpose the UK’s claim and we would prefer to share this cake between us.
You say:
What the worldview is would not be irrelevant but would also probably not be important enough for the UK to bow to pressure.
I say:
If I were you I would dust off my “Suez Crisis” books... The Diplomatic, Political and, above all, Financial costs could be as enormous as then.
Remember; It cost Eden his marbles......
You say:
“I guarantee, if the Falklands were handed over, there would be no corresponding handover of South Georgia or the South Sandwich Islands (already split away in case the Islander's change their minds?)”
I say:
I accept your guarantee..... The ”Georgia Sandwich” issue is thorny at best....
My personal opinion is that our regional tripartite “Entente Cordiale” will “let you keep them” but squeeze you Antarctic claim as much to the east as possible. You can take over some of the Norwegian area! They have so much....
Castling
Ps:
Billy just send this:
www.nuestromar.org/noticias/transporte_maritimo_y_fluvial/01_07_2010/31497_barco_que_abastece_malvinas_suspende_linea_a
I know your Spanish is not the best so........
In short it says that the Monthly Supply Ship Service from Chile to the Malvinas has been closed for good.
B2 to B4
I doubt that any 'claims' over Antartica will survive the conflict that's almost bound to happen should the current treaty fails.
Our possessions in the south Atlantic would however, in this hypothetical argument, be very useful to a number of the powers who would be seeking to protect (or even stake) their claims. More than one 'entente cordial' is likely to arise ... a 'northern' alliance perhaps?
Thank you for the information regarding the supply ship ..... will they starve do you think, Think?
ps I still don't believe that a South American bloc of pressure is anywhere near sufficient enough for the British Government to bow. Not whilst the population remembers 1982 and not if the island's evacuation was seen as the result of Argentine actions .... we are, as someone mentions above, a stubborn race!
Well.. well... well....
And why do you think we are making good friends with the BRIC block?
Settlers will not starve... Plenty of calamari and mutton.... Airplanes still exist..... Decent Single Malt prices will certainly surge......Ship still sailing from Montevideo though........ Still......
“South American Bloc” mission is to obstruct the economical development on the Islands.
Many, many countries would take advantage of such “hypothetical” situation to challenge “by proxi” the hegemony of your “Northern Alliance”
Evacuation?..... Ugly word......
We are talking about the “Free Movement of Persons and Goods” here mate.
And
Is good to be stubborn.... but not always enough............
When your boss sacks you or....
when the Missus says: ”no more” or...
when your home gets repossessed or....
Life is hard mate and reality caches up.
A 'Northern Alliance' would not just consist of Britain and Norway but would likely include the EU who would not wish to miss out. And you really think the U.S., Russia and China would want to miss out either - question is, 'which way would they bounce' ?
Some natural allies with New Zealand and Australia too.
Nope, still can't see the South American bloc being strong enough. And Chile may see the advantages in carving the disputed area between themselves and the UK. They'd be wary of more border disputes with Argentina.
Tried Googling that monthly supply ship from Chile without success. Political decision or a commercial one? Will it be missed?
You say:
Tried Googling that monthly supply ship from Chile without success. Political decision or a commercial one? Will it be missed?
I say:
Ever consider learning a second language?
It widens your horizons.
And you could get all info from my Billy's link :-)
Let the race begin
A little bit of England in the South Atlantic, the Falkland Islands are home to fewer than 3,000 people and the main town, Stanley, is the smallest and most remote capital in the world.
www.ncl.co.uk/destinations/south_america/ports.htm
Paradise Islands Revisited:
A little bit of England in the South Pacific The Pitcairn Islands are home to fewer than 50 people and the main town, Adamstown, is the smallest and most remote capital in the world.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3705988.stm
It is good to see you have other outside interests, when you typed in incest you got the asia-pacific site
As a matter of fact I just wanted to check your false info about the “smallest capital in the world”
The other stuff just popped out.
As dirt often does......
What you do in the privacy of your bedroom is no concern of mine
their is only two ways argentina will ever get them.
1, perswade the islanders to become argentinian.
2, fight for them
i will leave you lot to choose which one you think they should choose.
More than 40% of the male population of their Overseas Territory are convicted serial rapists....
5 years old girls!!!!
Shame.... shame.... on you!
Don't worry Britons...
We understand....
It's just some innocent Initiation Rituals.....
It's the native girls fault!
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
I knew you were onliiiine.....
Incest - the game all the family can play!
Yeahhhh.......
Not surprisingly, you are the only responding ;-)
“Small bits of England in every isolated British Overseas Territory.”
Our sociologists will have to look at this angle too.
That would explain the pretty sheep of Malvinas though...
Darwin’s natural selection.....
Surely the indigenous peoples of Patagonia - for example: the Telhuelches & Mapuches have good historical claim to dispute the Argentine drilling since they were all but exterminated from their native lands in Patagonia? These indigenous Amerindians were only subjugated by their Argentine Colonialist Oppressors as recently as 1885.
These indigenous peoples were colonised by the implanted Spanish population from Europe, some 10 000 km away, on a massive scale. The implanted population destroyed their culture, persecuted, tortured & murdered them and condemned then to a marginalised existence in poverty, at best treated 3rd class citizens on their own lands, at worst as non-people with no right of redress for the crimes against humanity committed by the Argentine colonialists against them. The modern day indigenous peoples are not allowed to think for themselves and their leaders have simply become the puppets of their Buenos Aires Colonial Masters.
Surely it is time the UN recognised that Argentina must be decolonised, that the implanted Argentine population must go home to Europe and the dependent indigenous peoples must be freed in accordance with the UN Charter and General Assembly Resolution 1514(XV)?
Shame on Argentina!
The Spanish arrived in the early sixteenth century. On March 31, 1520 Ferdinand Magellan landed and made contact with the Tehuelche. The arrival of the Spanish then killed most of the Tehuelche with disease and war in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. There are now only about 5,937 left.
In recent years, there has been an attempt by the Chilean government to redress some of the inequities of the past. The Parliament voted, in 1993, Law n° 19 253 (Indigenous Law, or Ley indígena) which recognized the Mapuche people, and seven other ethnic minorities as well as the Mapudungun language and culture. In the frame of this law, Mapundungun, which was prohibited before, is now included in the curriculum of elementary schools around Temuco. There has been no comparable effort in Argentina.
Despite representing 4.6% of the Chilean population few Mapuches have reached government positions, in 2006 among Chile's 38 senators and 120 deputies only one declared to be indigenous. The number is however higher at municipal levels.
Furthermore, representatives from Mapuche organisations joined the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organisation (UNPO) seeking recognition and protection for their cultural and land rights.
Sounds like genocide to me.
The story of Chilean & Argentinian Colonialism in the Kingdoms of Aracuana & Patagonia is told by their survivors of “The Last Massacre”
in their own words:
www.mapuche-nation.org/
www.mapuche-nation.org/english/html/kingdom/intro.html
www.mapuche-nation.org/english/main/feature/m_nation.htm
www.mapuche-nation.org/espanol/html/reino/introduccion.html
www.mapuche-nation.org/espanol/main/especial/nacion_m/nacion_m.htm
These indigenous peoples should be restored from their present day colonial existence to their rightful position as an independent free nation state, which they self-determined and declared their independence in 1860 qs the Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Araucania_and_Patagonia
These indigenous peoples truly deserve to be free from the colonial oppression of their Chilean & Argentine occupiers.
Here is a genuine example of modern day colonialism, a genuine example of annexation of the Mapuche, Telhuelche & Chilote peoples, subject forced expulsion & deportation from their lands and ethnocidal assimilation into their oppressors culture and the extinction of their own culture.
Surely a most shameful case of colonialism that deserves full implementation of resolution 1514(XV)? Sadly, the racist world and the powers that be, do not seek justice & restitution, rather seek to sustain their own wealth, power and privilege. Argentines dare to complain they are victims of alleged colonialism, when they themselves are the oppressors & colonists, living on stolen land from subjugated peoples, who would not be subjugated by choice.
Hypocrites one and all.
Argentines are animals.
What do you do with an out-of-control animal?
Suggestions?
on the other hand, as they have just been slaughtered by germany 4-0
it may be wise to isolate them for a while, as they will proberbly think the result was wrong, and germany should repatriate the goals,lol
It hits the southern region of Chile harder than us - they will loose well over £5 million a year of exports and 500 Chileans here loose a direct sea contact with their homeland and families. Meantime we will just import goods from somewhere else.
Billy - you hit the nail on the head - the only realistic solution where both sides can win and neither looses will be Independence - BUT - that would have to be recognized by Buenos Aires. Various means of getting there - even an agreement where, in a neutral territory, UK could symbolically handover sovereignty to Argentina-on agreement that they immediatley hand it to the Islanders by accepting their Independence, it might work - if we and UK could trust Argentina to honour it? Uk would leave S Atlantic, we would probably choose to remain in the Commonwealth etc. We could have a Govt Office in BA - and agree with Arg for them to speak for us in places like mercosur etc as otherwise half our population will end up overseas as diplomats! A pipe dream - but one day something along these lines might happen - if!
As for football - well my bet on a Brazil-Argentina final and an all S America semi has gone out the window! At least England only went down 4-“2”! Come on little Uruguay
You say:
”Arg claims in contravention to the “UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits” which they signed”
I say:
??? UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits ???
Now you are inventing UN legislation !!!
It does not exist !!!
In your fantasy eagerness you even multiplied the strait to STRAITS !!!
Maybe you mean this:
The” United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea ”states that :
”Nothing in this Part affects: …(c) the legal regime in straits in which passage is regulated in whole or in part by long-standing international conventions in force specifically relating to such straits“.
The long-standing convention would be the Boundary Treaty of 1881 between Chile and Argentina, complemented by the Treaty of Peace and Friendship of 1984 between Chile and Argentina.
And this is not the first time your ”Facts” don’t add up.......
Maybe my innocent joke about the “pretty sheep” Provoked you into feeling that fantasying is ok.... I don’t know......... but as a Patagonian, I know that you know that I know that you know.....
About Football:....
As a typical Argentinean, my hearth beats for the Dutch Boers, the Spanish Armada, the German Empire and our Uruguayans Neighbours.
Take care
And the real difference it'll make = none. The latest news from the rig appears good and any exploitation of that resource would naturally lead to a build up of infrastructure in the Falklands. More people = more ships, after all business is business. So maybe the ship's will have to travel a little further..... hey ho!
Think - Dutch Boers but not the Zulu? Spanish Armada but not the Tehuelche or other natives the Conquistador's met? German Empire but not the Poles or Jews? Uruguay? Yes, maybe you are a typical Argentinean after all!
I have Spanish friends, they are not my enemy ..... at least not today!
I have both German friends and neighbours, but they are not currently my enemies either.
Sadly I do not know anybody from Uruguay ... but I have no axe to grind there either ... at this time!
Ah, the ebb and flow of friends and enemies .... makes relying on either sooo difficult :-)
Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Chile and Argentina 1984
www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/TREATIES/CHL-ARG1984PF.PDF
Article 10
The Argentine Republic and the Republic of Chile agree that at the eastern end of the Strait of Magellan (Estrecho de Magallanes) defined by Punta Dungeness in the north and Cabo del Espiritu Santo in the south, the boundary between their respective sovereignties shall be the straight line joining the ”Dungeness Marker (Former Beacon)“, located at the very tip of the said geographical feature, and ”Marker I on Cabo del Espiritu Santo” in Tierra del Fuego.
The boundary described above is shown in annexed map No. 11.
The sovereignty of the Argentine Republic and the sovereignty of the Republic of Chile over the sea, seabed and subsoil shall extend, respectively, to the east and west of this boundary.
The boundary agreed on here in no way alters the provisions of the 1881 Boundary Treaty, whereby the Strait of Magellan is neutralized forever with free navigation assured for the flags of all nations under the terms laid down in article V.
The Argentine Republic undertakes to maintain, at any time and in whatever circumstances, the right of ships of all flags to navigate expeditiously and without obstacles through its jurisdictional waters to and from the Strait of Magellan.
You say:
Dutch Boers but not the Zulu?
Spanish Armada but not the Tehuelche or other natives the Conquistador's met?
German Empire but not the Poles or Jews?
Uruguay? Yes, maybe you are a typical Argentinean after all!
I say:
3 of them duly eliminated / exterminated (this year:-)
I live in the now, not in ancient history (as some:-)
Go for it Uruguay !!!!(that last minute against Ghana was niiice)
You lost me here :-(
Think back to 1982, in that year 249 Argentine lives were lost to military action.
HOW MANY DID YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT KILL!!?
And you wonder why the Bennies want nothing to do with you!!!!
To see the real world, first get your head out of your arse!!
Nice to see that somebody refers to authentic documentation and not to ”Fantasy UN Treaties”.
Totally correct, OUR BILATERAL treaty with CHILE stipulates:
”The Argentine Republic undertakes to maintain, at any time and in whatever circumstances, the right of ships of all flags to navigate expeditiously and without obstacles through its jurisdictional waters to and from the Strait of Magellan.”
Any breach of the treaty by one part is to be objected by the other.
But Chile is not protesting because of the tacit agreement between our governments.
Is ONLY Chile and Argentina that decide who and when navigates the Strait of Magellan. Those are Not International Waters.
Any ship wanting to sail from the Atlantic to the Pacific is free to do so on International Waters south of Cap Horn.
No catch there....
By the way, any country has, in this modern times, the implicit approval of the International Community to inspect any ship in their territorial waters if piracy, drugs, arms or human trafficking are suspected.
Of course we do not dare to stop these trafficking ships......
en.mercopress.com/2010/06/18/hms-manchester-wren-jailed-for-smuggling-cocaine-into-the-uk
The mighty British taxpayer is to powerful for us...
Have a nice sniff......
Sniff Sniff
Your choice of ”Cadfael” as your ”nick” made me expect some ”insight” and no ”foul” language.
Not so....
You say:
HOW MANY DID YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT KILL!!?
And
”You wonder why the Bennies want nothing to do with you!!!!”
I say:
It was not “OUR “ and it was not a “GOVERNMENT”.
It was a bunch of criminals.
I challenge you to Google (lets put a low figure) 300 names of senior members from that what you call “OUR GOVERNMENT” in 1982.
Try to find ONE that:
Has not died in disgrace or
Is not serving a jail or house arrest sentence or
Is not facing trial for their crimes or
Is not been summoned by the court to face criminal charges or
Is not being extradited from USA or Europe to face criminal charges or
Holds any kind of official or semi-official position in the Argentine society......
If you find one, I beg you on my knees to inform us his name.
Today we have a both; a government and a Falklands/Malvinas issue.
That’s how real our world is!
Now, coincidently we also have a Government although we do not seem to have a Falklands/Malvinas issue ...
And, coincidently, our political leaders don't appear (one can never tell!) to be sleeping with their predecessors ....
Dynasty's eh ... bit incestuous, bit Pitcairnish, bit dyNASTY !
Funny old world ... the 'real' one :-)
No Think, read the last sentence again. It refers to navigation to and from the Strait through Argentina's jurisdictional waters, not navigation within the Strait. The Strait itself is entirely under Chilean jurisdiction and is dealt with in the preceding sentence. Argentina has no jurisdiction in the Strait itself.
It was a bunch of criminals.”
Thats fair enough. But it's not like your nation was hosting riots when the invasion happened, Argentina celebrated it.
Also, since gaining democracy. Have you tried to make it up to the islanders? no, you've treated them like crap ever since.
There is no excuse for the way argentina has treated the islanders.
The Boundary Treaty of 1881 has
Article 5
“The Straits of Magellan shall be neutralized for ever, and free navigation assured to the flags of all nations. In order to assure this freedom and neutrality, no fortifications or military defences shall be constructed on the coasts that might be contrary to this purpose.”
That would seem to preclude Argentina interfering with any vessels in any way whatsoever.
C'mon Think, at last you've a serious argument on your hands :-)
Correct... The channel itself is 100% Chilenian.
The access waters to it are not. I formulated myself wrongly
Does not change any of the above stated though.
Sorry
(97)
I have communicated enough with you to classify you in the “Turnip Surprise” - “the surprise is : there's nothing in it except the turnip”. category
It is sad you persist with childish personal insults instead of coherent rebuttal when confronted with a good argument substantiated by verifiable facts.
Why call people names when you are unable or unwilling to articulate an coherent response? Why not simply remain silent?
I think Think, your insults are most applicable to yourself.
Are not the access to the Beagle Channel waters & right of innocent passage to it rightly governed by the terms of the agreement of the UN signatories to UNCLOS? If not, why not?
Watch your BP!
I do believe then that Argentina with it new repressive laws directed against the innocent Islanders is illegally seeks to prevent innocent right of passage against the UN Convention on the Laws of Sea and its 160 signatory nations, including Argentina & contrary to UN General Resolution 1514(XV).
Shame on Argentina!
Lets bore them dead with Res.1514(XV)
Said Baldrick to Black Adder :-)
“ ... Article 35 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea states that ”Nothing in this Part affects: …(c) the legal regime in straits in which passage is regulated in whole or in part by long-standing international conventions in force specifically relating to such straits“. Article V of the 1881 Boundary Treaty established a legal regime for the Strait of Magellan, and in a diplomatic letter to major shipping nations in 1873 Chile had already promised freedom of navigation through and neutralization in the strait....”
Now tell me Think, are you saying that all this is rendered useless by Argentina's control of the access to the Strait? Did someone miss that? Surprising that no-one has noticed? No international law restricting Argentina's control .... NO?
:-) Sure?
My inspiration source when dialoguing wit Brits:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPMNuTyiwas&feature=related
All I can say is Thank Bhudda for the Panama canal! How else would we get to Pitcairn ?
Is not Youtube It's Black Adder's spirit guiding me!
Strangely, nobody reacted to the inexistence of the imaginary“ UN Maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits” mentioned by Islander!
As I state at (91):
Any ship wanting to sail from the Atlantic to the Pacific is free to do so on International Waters south of Cap Horn.
No catch there....
Magellan and Beagle Straits are, by the way, too narrow, to dangerous and too expensive (obligatory pilot services) to be of relevance for any international or national shipping except local coasters and cruise ships.
No clever answers just jorge-like inanities.
So, we have established that Argentina has no right to block any vessel's access to the Atlantic Ocean through the Straits of Magellan.
So if a Chilean vessel were to be replaced by a Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel escorted by, say, an RN destroyer. What then?
... a so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it weasel, a plan more cunning than a weasel in national cunning week, as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University!
Unfortunately for you Think, you wouldn't recognize a cunning plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Cunning plans are here again!
Given that the right to innocent passage has been codified in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of December 10, 1982, extracts from Article 17 & 19 follow:
“... ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.
”Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.“
I think the UN will not accept that Argentina may frustrate innocent passage of international shipping, bilateral treaty with Chile or no.
If Argentina passes a law for domestic consumption and then fails to enforce it, then it all makes sense. If it tries to stop vessels under foreign flags, I think Argentina will have bitten off more than it can chew.
Let's see.
Tell me Think: When you were little and used to play in the gutter, did you used to say to the other snipes ”Hello, my name's Think.“ And they'd say ”Yes we know. Sod off, Think.” ?
Archie Duke, the Ostrich.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktBQ51iGWw
You are right in that they are not international waters, but the treaty quite clearly shows that both Chile and Argentina have undertaken not to hinder navigation in the area by ships of any country in any way. Chile within the Strait and Argentina access to and from the Strait.
Correct:
“Chile and Argentina have undertaken not to hinder navigation in the area by ships of any country in any way. Chile within the Strait and Argentina access to and from the Strait.”
THIS IS A BILATERAL AGREEMENT CONCERNING INTERNAL CHILENIAN WATERS.
IF BOTH PARTS AGREE WE CAN DO WITH THE CHANNEL WHATEVER WE WANT.
WE COULD IN PRINCIPLE AGREE TO CLOSE IT DOWN AND USE IT AS A GIANT SALMON FARM.
“Your freedom to wave your fists is limited by the position of your neighbour's nose”
when the Greek soldier said: “ I am a free man & may wave my fists where ever I wish”.
Demonstrating that there are natural limits to freedom, when they harm others.
(Source: Karl Popper, The Open Society, recalled from my last reading about 20 years ago!)
Also, with reference to Billy's link:
N.B. I believe this is often falsely originally attributed to the American jurist, Oliver Wendell Holmes as “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins. ”
I suggest the limits to Argentina's & Chile's rights ends when the exercise of their rights harms others and UN will decide UNCLOS takes priority, against threat of real sanction.
From what I read of Billy's link, I understood that the SAAS monthly supply ship will likely be routed out of Montevideo to Port Stanley because it was far cheaper than operating out of Punta Arenas; money talks and Chileans lose out by over $500 000 per month profit, but from the quoted figures the service our of Punta Arenas has never been competitive with a Montevideo based service, so the contract was ended.
So it appears that simple good competitive advantage is the reason for the switch, although avoidance of decree 256/2010 also seems to be part of the decision.
Ho-hum.
But dont worry about us over the Straits - its an inconvenience ,but we can trade elsewhere-and do. Sadly not so for Magallanes province in Souther Chile and punta Arenas with rising umemployment now loosing £5million a year in export business - the folks there certainly do not thank Argentina for it!
I was cut off last time- I dont blame the Uruguyan for his handball - under those circumstances name me an honest footballer who would not have had exactly the same instict! Of course it was wrong- just human instead! Very different from a certain persons goalscore from a deliberate handpunch once in a worldcup - now that was deliberate!
and wake up in the morning, and the union jack is still their, over the falklands, over 180 years and still going strong, so relax nothing is going to change, at least not in the next fifty years at least .
Nice sweet-talk but.....
Could you please direct me to your :
“UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits”
Any links?
Any reference to this supposed piece of UN legislation that Argentina has signed and now is breaching?
Anything?
Try now to Google:
“Estrechos de Magallanes” = 3.540 Hits
And now Google:
“Estrecho de Magallanes” = 827.000 Hits
More than 200 to 1 in favor of the singular form.
If that is not enough, please give me a link to any map or sea-chart where the Strait is named in the plural form.
Be it in Spanish or English or any other language.......
Thanks Think, I was wondering why I couldn't get any stats for shipping using the Strait/s (apparently both words are correct).
And this Montevideo based service ... is its demise imminent?
“Straits of Magellan” is incorrect.
Try to find 1 sea chart /map where the plural form is used....
In any language.
Everybody still dodging the fact that our dear Islanders just invents UN legislation when he needs it.
” .. strait (strait) Pronunciation:/streɪt/noun
1 (also straits)a narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two other large areas of water: [in place names] : the Straits of Gibraltar” - Oxford Dictionary
Was that 'islanders' or 'islander' ?
And not dodging , just uninterested!
Stick to a subject you know and understand ... whatever that maybe....
The Beagle is a separate issue.. used by few apart from crusiers liners and container ships of the smaller classes...however..
Estrecho de Magallanes is used by many ships of the largest classes... the largest I have seen down there ( in Paso Tortuoso ) in recent times was USS George Washington in April 08..... plenty of seriously big ships use that waterway , large tankers, big gas carriers.... some simply using the strait, others going up through the channels... and in the strait itself pilotage is not compulsory.....
Facts.. Think..stick to them..
Butter still unobtainable in the Supermercados of BA this week??... sugar still rationed???
Thanks for your info.
I have to accept that in the English-speaking world, the Strait of Magellan is also called the Straits of Magellan.
Not in English cartography though, those guys tend to be quite more accurate with their data.
That leads me even more to believe that the writer of the imaginary “UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits” is Islander!
Never noticed the extra S in “Straits of Gibraltar” either.
Hmmmm.....
I’ll have to check how many “English Channels” they are:-)
I used to be uninterested in lies that “further my case” too. Human nature I suppose.
(125)Frank
You say:
....and in the strait itself pilotage is not compulsory.....
I say:
Pilotage IS compulsory In the Strait(s) of Magellan.
Link to the Chilean merchant fleet’s homepage:
www.directemar.cl/pilotaje/pageA.html#a3
Link to a private maritime Agency:
www.gacworld.com/upload/Business%20areas/PDF%20files/shipping/GAC-Ultramar_Network_Transit_Svc_19Aug09.pdf
Quote from the page:
“The Southern tip of South America, present 2 routes that link the ATLANTIC OCEAN and PACIFIC OCEAN;
- the STRAIT of MAGELLAN, and
- the DRAKE PASSAGE
This information mainly deals about inner route of Strait of Magellan, inside the compulsory Piloting zone.
The route throughout Drake Passage is outside of the compulsory Piloting zone and is not commonly use by Pilots”
These are my facts based on Chilean legislation.
What are your facts, if I may ask?
While Argentinian ships have to take a Chilean Pilot if sailing between PArenas and Ushuaia they do not have to take a pilot when proceeding to or from the east from Ushuaia..
Directemar site is very good... you will note www.directemar.cl/pilotaje/PageB.html
something in excess of 2000 ships a year using the Strait.
Also ...apart from the northern half of the Beagle eastwards from a point close west of Ushuaia.. the argentinians have no control over any part of the waters of TdF.. any attempt by them to control shipping in those waters would be akin to a closing of the Singapore Straits or Sunda Strait.
Mind you there is at present low level Prefectura harrassment of ships and yachts taking place - in the form of standing over them and requiring papers ( quite illegal) to be signed if they are proceeding on their lawful occasions in international waters south of the Rio de la Plata.
Like Islanders “fantagislation”; the :
“UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits” that Argentina signed an breached!!!
Uppps ... a typing error surely... no hard feelings.... Honest mistake ...ehhh mate?
And then you start again with your tremendism saying....:
“Any attempt by them (Argentina) to control shipping in those waters would be akin to a closing of the Singapore Straits or Sunda Strait.”
Argentina is, in full conjunction with the Chilean authorities controlling the transport activities to and from a little specific volatile geographical area in the South Atlantic which can endanger the interests of both our nations.
very sad...
So, is butter back in the shops this week - fat chance- or should I bring some 'Silver Fern' back with me from NZ next month?
That would be the Chile that funded some of its students visiting the Falklands to improve their English?
That would be the Chile which, according to a Mercpress articles elsewhere, DID NOT cancel a regular shipping route to the Falkland Island because it was cancelled by the islanders as being too expensive (pilotage, etc)
And those are just today's articles.
You seem to have a fixation with Butter!!!
Butter (or Full monthy English Breakfasts) are not as good as Brits think:
”It was butter, the Japanese thought, which made Europeans so peculiarly rank: bata-kusai they called them (using the English word for the foul substance): “butter-stinkers.”
The terms Bata-kusai, “stinking of butter,” is still a derogatory term for things obnoxiously Western.” (Wiki P.)
(131)
Yes Hoyt, that would be the Chile..........
No not really, butter, sugar, those german pickles that I enjoy, ... even green beans... so much that is either never available or rarely so... which leads to the 'guns or butter' issue... rattle the sabres... jump up and down about the Falklands .. maybe the people won't notice that stuff is missing from the shelves, that public transport -while cheap- is really crap, that the government is lining its pockets, and so it goes on... like your debating skillls... throw in totally unrelated facts.. Pitcairns etc.. rather than discuss the issues....
“No compulsory Pilotage in the Strait” or
UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits.
Just to mention two in this thread.
When I disclose a lie, I get a ”wittysh” justification .....
Or no answer at all...
Pitcairn... Yes... When I use a relevant example of the problematics of your Overseas Territories you call it totally unrelated. Incest inbreeding social passivity whatever.......
You prefer to talk about some Butter!
Tipical Briton the only thing that offends you about what happened (and still happens) in Pitcairn is that some outsider knows about it......
..just offended by what passes for democracy in Argentina..
from that Directemar site... plain english... cuts around all that UN verbalise...
'The Strait, in it whole length, belongs to the Republic of Chile and it is part of the XII Region of Magallanes and Chilean Antarctica (Magallanes y la Antártica Chilena). It's eastern access is surrounded by Argentinean waters. In accordance with Chile-Argentina international treaties of 1881 and 1984, the access and sailing from and to the eastern mouth is accessible to vessels of all nations, at any time and circumstances.'
Nothing there about Argentina having the right to interfere with any shipping in that area for any reason....
Correct:
“Chile and Argentina have undertaken not to hinder navigation in the area by ships of any country in any way. Chile within the Strait and Argentina access to and from the Strait.”
THIS IS A BILATERAL AGREEMENT CONCERNING INTERNAL CHILENIAN WATERS.
IF BOTH PARTS AGREE WE CAN DO WITH THE CHANNEL WHATEVER WE WANT.
WE COULD “IN PRINCIPLE ”AGREE TO CLOSE IT DOWN AND USE IT AS A GIANT SALMON FARM.
“ No compulsory pilotage ”
Even so I tried to conserve some respect for the “Magellanic expert”
Then, you try with disrespect and captious remarks and questions........
I wish you a pleasent life
Its no
As we all have them the relevance of the issue on these pages has passed me by.
Frank has a point as indeed do you. The real point however is whether Chile would break its avowed decision that ALL craft can use the Strait(s) without hindrance.
Argentina's stance is already known.
I personally doubt that Chile yet loves you enough to start blocking other shipping regardless of its destination/home port. BUT, time will tell. No?
I stopped long ago with the Pitcairn Issue.
Frank the Yank revived it by calling it “unrelated”.
As you point out. We all have our criminals etc... My point exactly...
But reading the material your side writes, it would seem like Argentina is Lex Luthor and the UK is Superman.
I can see why “NicoDin”, “Jorge” and the other morons are so popular in here.
They reconfirm your worst preconceptions and their “arguments” are easily rebutted.
Well let me tell you a secret: (they are as representative for our side as “harrier61-aka-agent0060” and “Briton” are for yours)
All we had is an expensive pathetic little skirmish misarranged by idiots 28 years ago.
Get over it!
To finish:
Argentina is, in consultation with the Chilean authorities controlling the ships to and from the Malvinas in Argentinean waters.
If they (and only they) should protest, we would have to stop.
Nice and simple
Get over it!...”
No! Whilst I'll agree with much of your last post, no, I won't get over it. 1832 was a very long time ago and the police action went peacefully. In 1982 people died. Now lets not misunderstand each other, your side started/mismanaged it so I don't give a damn about your side.
Importantly for me and my countrymen OUR people died too. So NO. We will not get over it. Not my generation and not the next ....
Communities in the Balkans are still fighting wars that started 300 years ago. The Isralies are fighting over issues that are 1000 years old. Let me put this plainly - 30 YEARS ARE NOT ENOUGH!
Simple enough for you ?
I still think you should get over it...
Try to read again what you just wrote....
Where is your sense of proportion?
255 dead British soldiers?
What if only 25 died?
What if just 2 ?
Or what if it was only that “famous” piece of Argentinean crap left on that settler’s bed?
Still enough to justify what you are saying?....
Yes ? ....
Thought so....
Now......., you live close to Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.
Those people have real fresh “Issues”.
Look how they tackle them.
But, of course, they are “gooks”.
They think different.
You keep telling us Argentineans that we are brainwashed..... Well...seems to me that we are not alone....
Yes, I live in Thailand and the locals are just as emotional about their border disputes as we can be, check out the temple dispute with Cambodia, it's nearly come to war a couple of times over the last two years.
They're not 'gooks', I'm married to a Thai which is why I'm here. They're not pragmatists either!
The Argentines appear to have been brainwashed about their history and they rights/wrongs to the Falkland Islands. My government tells me nothing, so my opinions are all mine own.
30 years are not enough!
Figures....
42 billion in ”Ofense” spending...
We have enemies.......Big enemies......
Need Carriers, Atomic subs, Tridents, JCA’s.....
No price is too high for freedom.......
They didn’t die in vain......
“My government tells me nothing, so my opinions are all mine own.”
C’mon.... none of us have ”own” opinions....
Different opinions conditioned by our early education /origin yes.
My conditioned opinion is that I care equally for the lives of both sides.
My conditioned opinion is that I don’t trust any military system in the world.
My conditioned opinion is to doubt everything, not just what they teached me to doubt.
Maybie not in your country. We arent brainwashed here. I don't recall ever really being told much about the falklands or the empire at school or college. I found out for myself.
You may not trust your military, and for good reason. But here in the UK we trust ours.
Its an inconvenience to the Islands-no more than that. Just yet another reason to make us all dislike your Governments- Democratic/Military - no difference at all from where we look.
Any news about that no-existent Convention you mentioned?:
“UN maritime Convention on Free Passage through the Magellan Straits” that Argentina supposedly signed and breached!!!
And:
We didn’t have to do nothing with that Containership dude!
The “induced” Market Forces did the job for us.
Just a drop in the ocean......
And, to make things clear:
We are not here for a popularity contest.
You “liking us” is not in our equation...
Don’t worry we don’t fancy you either....
Well thats a pity twink,because they are the guys you have got to convince, that being argentine is better than being British,cos without there say so the UK aint going to give you panto villians the Falklands
You Ask:
“Who the h*ll do you think you are, Anounimous argentine user?”
I say:
Me Think - You Jorge
Sorry Think... not north american...
You know that , as a group, the Chileans really truly don't like your lot. Nothing vitriolic... the word disdain comes to mind. There is no way they would be acting on behalf of the Prefectura and getting a shipmaster to sign that illegal form that is being used in Argentina. Nor is there any way that the Argentinian Armada would be turning back ships on the high seas.
:-) ...
You appreciate my innocent jokes about other people.... but not them about you....
Hmmmmmm.
What would the correct English term be for that?
Suggestions please...
There's a fine line between humour and insults! Sometime methinks, Think you deliberately cross it, for fun or to deliberately insult.
In answer to your question.... someone who can't take a joke might be called a bad sport... and one who can a good sport.
I think Think most people are mix of good & bad sports most of the time, some more on way than others. What do you think, Think?
Keep it up Sport!
You will soon be out of the “haze”
I have Tao....
See how they like it.
Please fill the gaps below with the most accurate progression.
BNP performance
1987: 563 votes
1992: 7.631 votes
1997: 35.832 votes
2001: 47.129 votes
2005: 192.746 votes
2010: 563.743 votes
2015: _________
2020: _________
2025: _________
so drill away till the cows come home,
Is he a Communist? No.... Black? No.... Liberal? No.... Unintelligent? No... Resented? No.... Jew? No.... Nazi? No.... Argentinean? No.... Unpatriotic? No.... Poor? No.... Gay..................That’s it!
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article7043099.ece
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article7048684.ece
And you missed out Comic. Oh, that's you, isn't it?
Its the best part of this repeated comedy.
Brits you are disappointing me, what wrong with you?
Look if you don’t pop up your Army stuff and your Pomi Empire I will start to talk about the Cynics, Epicurean and Stoics.
My preferred lad Diogenes and I love the tale out of the temple.
I’ve warned you mates.
Otherwise you will die from a strange boring disease called pseudo intellectualism. What can cause unpredictable behaviors.
Some common symptoms of this terminal disease are:
1- You may Think intellectual superior when you aren’t.
2- You may Think and see others as a Morons when you are not able to understand an algo.
3- You may Think and repeat yourself several times without understanding why.
4- You may Think and start to believe that all written on library books is the revealed truth.
5- You may Think that you think and that is the last stage of this terminal disease.
If you are suffering something of this, please call the cops, I mean the doctor.
Your local NHS might give you some good advise about what not to do in a public forum. Specially when you don’t know the size of the brain and level of the others.
Any similarity with a real story or name given is just coincidence and fictional characters have been used in cast. All copyright, right reserved and Trade Marks are owned by respective holders.
Living animal has not been killed on this movie.
© XXI Century Nicon motion pictures Pasadena California, US. A subsidiary of Nicon Arg. Headquarter BA Argentina.
Think about it...
Yon need a check up from the neck up
Its the best part of this repeated comedy.”
it's that repeated comedy that keeps you out of our waters ^___^
I’m not misrepresenting your name.
May be you thought of “misrepresentation” what can drive myself to incur into Culpa Lata.
This time try to think harder and may be you will be able to read the metadata included in the message.
Would you please?
Thanks you, we would appreciate your honest and hard intellectual effort.
Best regards,
You say:
This time try to think harder and may be you will be able to read the metadata included in the message.
I say:
Dear Nico.......The problem with your “METADATA” is that it is sooo “META” that it ceases to be “DATA”.
My honest advice........ Keep it simple...
I can sense you are not as stupid as your texts imply.....
would explain a lot about nicotines ranting
alcoholism.about.com/library/blten2.htm
Got a lot in common with Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri
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