Unasur unable to agree on secretary; closes all ports to ‘illegal’ Malvinas flagged vessels
The presidents of Unasur (Union of South American Nations) meeting at a summit in Guyana paid homage to former president Nestor Kirchner, agreed to incorporate a “democratic clause” to the group’s charter, left for next month a decision on who will be named the next secretary general and had a special mention to the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty dispute between Argentina and the UK. Argentina also revealed that the post should be occupied by an Argentine.
The democratic clause imposes sanctions on any member country of Unasur that breaks or attempts to break constitutional rule or the democratic system. Sanctions will be: suspension at the UNASUR; partial or total close of borders; suspension of commerce, air and maritime traffic, communication, energy provision and services; promoting penalization and political sanctions.
The clause has been taken as a priority after the recent conflict in Ecuador (when part of the police forces mutinied and attacked President Correa), and the coup in Honduras on June 28, 2009.
Regarding the Falklands conflict several articles of the final declaration state that all Unasur ports will be closed to vessels operating under the “illegal flag of Malvinas”.
This last statement and another referred to “vulture funds” or the organized hold-outs of sovereign bonds that do not accept debt rescheduling programs and demand full payment of capital and interest through international courts were seen as triumphs of Argentine diplomacy.
Before the official opening of the summit Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa (whose country held until Friday Unasur’s presidency) asked for a minute of silence to honour the memory of former Unasur Secretary General Nestor Kirchner who died of a heart attack a month ago. As the minute concluded the dignitaries present applauded and cheered.
In her speech Argentine president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner praised her husband’s will to walk down a path in the region from which there’s no way back and said that reaffirming the organization’s direction is the best way to honour his memory. “His goal was achieving growth and tirelessly fighting inequality and social differences”
Mrs Kirchner then thanked her peers from Brazil and Venezuela. “We have to remember him fondly. I would have loved to have him a few more years with me, but God only knows why these things happen. I would love to thank Lula da Silva, because along with him my husband could prove that there was no animosity between Argentina and Brazil. And also I would like to thank President Chavez for helping Argentina when no one would”.
Finally Mrs Kirchner recalled her husband as “a great creator of paradigms in South America and he was a unique, unrepeatable and wonderful man. He lived his sixty years intensely”. “Reaffirming Unasur direction is the best way to pay homage to Kirchner”.
Brazilian president Lula da Silva also praised the former Secretary Genral saying “he will always be a source of superior inspiration for the region’s politicians”, He added that “his dreams were shared by all South Americans”.
However in spite of the speeches and praise for Mr. Kirchner the presidents were unable to agree on a name for the next Secretary General.
Correa said “we must keep sounding and talking”, and recalled that when the post was created it was agreed it had to be a former South American president.
Several names had been originally floated: Brazil’s Lula da Silva who steps down next January and Uruguay’s Tabare Vazquez.
However Lula da Silva has his own plans to promote Brazil in Africa and Argentina would never accept Tabare Vazquez because of the long conflict over the pulp mills and it is known that there was personal animosity between the Kirchner couple and the former Uruguayan leader.
Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez added that the next Unasur secretary general did not necessarily have to be a former president, “there are great personalities that could very well be nominated, but I won’t advance names”.
Nevertheless he agreed that a decision should be reached at the coming Ibero-American summit scheduled for early December in Mar del Plata.
Brazilian sources in Montevideo said that following talks with several Unasur countries, the name of Marco Aurelio Garcia was seen as a strong candidate. Garcia is President Lula da Silva’s foreign affairs advisor and has been the driving force behind the creation of Unasur and promoting other regional integration processes.
Under Brazil’s long term strategy, Unasur in a near future should begin talks to join up with the Caribbean and Central American group of countries.
The Georgetown summit ended with Ecuadorian president handing the Unasur pro-tempore presidency for the next twelve months to his Guyana counterpart, Bharrat Jagdeo.
Out of the twelve member presidents, only eight were present since heads of state from Chile, Peru, Bolivia and Uruguay could not attend.
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What does that mean - exactly?
How many ships does that include - exactly?
What difference will it make - exactly? I'm betting on 'none' :-)
Fact is, no one yet really knows what these clauses indicate or the bearing it will have on UK ships in this region of the world.
Dont flatter yourself master baiter,not angry, just amused
:-)
the world will suffer for many generations to come, But the instigator in all this shit, [Argentina] will be no more, the land you know today, will no longer exist, argentine keeps pushing and pushing at her own peril,
the living has warned you, as the dead wont care, ?????????
“Argentina will suffer unmanageable retaliation... thousands or possibly millions will die, with the involvement of other countries, as many will be dragged in, and when it is all finished, the firing has stopped, the dead are buried”
Haha you are a very imaginative man mate.
I give 2 hours before the whole British army disappears from the face of earth.
Keep dreaming mate UK its not a threat to anyone and less on these days.
Too little for such arrogance Boomb and you shit on your pants.
You will pull out of Afghanistan just for 345 deaths. Imagine 3000 in a week sending back in plastic bags.
we kicked you out of the falklands, that WAS our action, and your responce is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz silly billy
It also establishes a commitment by signatory nations to report to Argentina on the movement of hydrocarbon vessels bound for the Malvinas, Georgias and Sandwich del Sur Islands.”
momento24.com/en/2010/11/26/unasur-countries-pledged-not-to-allow-the-dock-for-boats-with-the-illegal-flag-of-malvinas-falkland-islands/
#9 The truth is more important and more valuable than brute power.
And then what, King Canute ?
NiceButDim - you've got to stop smoking that stuff while you've half a brain cell left.
The reality appears to be that UNASUR have signed a document which has little meaning. Nobody seems to know which ships fly a Falklands flag and informing Argentina that a ship is passing through when it's hardly a secret in the first place, is just a nonsense.
Wind and water ............ yet again :-)
Think - for nails to be of any use you also need a hammer. Argentina lacks this crucial military or legal tool. As a commited commie you will be aware that Chairman Mao said “real power comes down the barrel of a gun”. Whether that gun is actual or the weapon of economic policy you have a lack of cards left.
How many of the ships involved in the oil drilling are Falkland flagged. Answer = 0!
And you pay tax for that kind of policy to be implemented. Time you asked for a rebate for incompetence.
Think - Sorry, I just re-read your one liner and realised it was not optimism, but disappointment. The wording of the agreement really provides nothing at all. I assume that Argentina had stronger words in mind, so therefore the final words were not those of Argentina. Whose then? Brazil again? They were reticent before, are they still wary of committing in any real sense?
Politics ...... dirty business !
Yes, the british Army is so scared of the 345 deaths it's had in Afghanistan that it's going to retreat...
...In five years.
Not Piñera nor Mujica in Guyana.
Unasur message is Brazil message. Look.
www.falklands-malvinas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16192#16192
” ... Asked about the impact on the Falkland Island Company (FIC) of the Argentine Government’s Declaration 256, which requires all shipping going to the Falklands from South America to seek permission from Buenos Aires, Mr Spink said that it had only a minor effect....Mr Spink said that that the principal victims of the Argentine Declaration had been suppliers in Chile who had lost a significant amount of business...”
Good way to keep your neighbours friendly ..... by hurting them economically!
As for Brazil, the piece (which is 10 days old) concerns the 'importation' of 'uncertified' goods. In other words, it is the Falklands authorities that are being difficult over the quality of the imports.
And what was the UNASUR message Billious? It doesn't appear very clear, other than they'll bandy words which may not mean very much in practical terms.
Even Think considers this nothing more than a 'little nail' :-)
Under USA pressure, UK Gov. want to get the hell out now.
We are there to stay!
A reminder to the FCO.
A reminder that you haven’t lost any business………….yet.
A reminder that you haven’t lost any face………yet.
A reminder that “Times They Are a Changing”.
Anyhow…..
It is a pretty little nail that, with a very simple rewording can become a beautiful 7’nail securing the lid of Britain’s diplomatic coffin in the South-Atlantic :-)
Sad!
The political discourse may have changed since the 80s but the UKs commitment to the Islands has remained.
All your leadership has done in make noise and toothless threats (election in 2011 the reason????). Anyway like my old choir master said “empty vessels make the most noise” empty like your hypothetical coffin.
Have a nice Sunday, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding day, yum!
When you get in trouble
and you don`t know right from wrong,
give a little wistle! (Whistle)...
Give a little wistle! (Whistle)...
When you meet temptation
and the urge is werry strong,
give a little whistle! (Whistle)...
Give a little whistle! (Whistle)...
Not just a little squeak, plucker up and blow.
And if your whistle`s week, yell “Jiminy Cricket”
Take the straight and narrow path
and if you start to slide,
give a little whistle. (Whistle)...
Give a little whistle (whistle)...
And always let you concience be your guide.
Hmmm…..
Sad optimism……
Describes me well, lad……
(32) Beef
A chicken chimichanga, generously speckled with “Dave’s Ultimate Insanity”, for me today…..
Duly washed down with a properly aged “Don David”…..
Enjoy the pudding…… (home-made by the missus, I hope) and remember to eat all your veggies boy.:-)
You mostly end paying 10 Euros for a pint that, in a blind test, wouldn’t score more than 0 points….
Some Islands are very overrated too…………
Once again we find peace and common ground in booze!
It's just funny how the UK and LatAm are out of sync. The UK speaks about restoring ties with LatAm, specially with Brazil. Meanwhile, Latm and specially Brazil, in only two weeks, make a series of pronouncements and decisions that are positively pro-Argentina and anti-British. How does that make you feel Typhoon?
In other words business as usual and we will see what happens after the 2011 election. Things will likely quieten down and if the FI becomes a new oil province then I imagine Argentina as a neighbour to the Islands would start to seek a collaborative agreement. This will be up to Argentine policy makers and while joint working is always preferable, Argentine involvement is not actually required.
This is the bit I especially like. Bunch of rotten hypocrites.....'this is what we think, right up to the point where we don't like the look of your democratically elected government, in which case we'll try and undermine it and then replace it with colonial rule'
Just goes to show what meaningless bits of paper these are.
making out she is doing something, but in fact, without the help of others she can do nothing, she tries/begs/steals/bribes/corrupts, almost anything to get others to do her dirty work.
And as usual when the sparks fly she will cower in the background, surrounded by white flags shouting I have human rights/it wasn’t me honest, yeh crap crap , splutter sputter
…..…Baldrick continually invents many “cunning plans”, which are scathingly ridiculed by Blackadder………
……..Baldrick also proves more intelligent than Blackadder's other companions - such as Lord Percy or George - although only slightly……….
Source: Wikipedia…………
As a Briton, you should be able to recognize the ”Blackadder” in you :-)
I assume you're refering the Falklands Think, Quite surprised you kick up such a fuss over them if that's what you believe.
;-)
I see a lot of comments like “Lets face it, is this not just Argentina trying to lead from the rear,
making out she is doing something, but in fact, without the help of others she can do nothing, she tries/begs/steals/bribes/corrupts, almost anything to get others to do her dirty work.
And as usual when the sparks fly she will cower in the background, surrounded by white flags shouting I have human rights/it wasn’t me honest, yeh crap crap , splutter sputter”
Typical whining, that happens when you know you're losing...
I also have to mention another thing that I love about the Argentina posters... they seem to believe that the Islanders and the Brits are somehow terrified regarding Argentina's military strength or the state of the British economy...either they have terrible insight into the mentality of the Islanders and the British (this has been proven over and over again) or they like to comfort themselves with a fantasy, that someone in the world is afraid of Argentina...Personally I think it is both.
Years of living with Argentina's attempts to isolate the Falklands, leave me indifferent...not terrified. It does say something that a country of 40m+ cannot terrify a country of 3000. It just sums up the incompetence of Argentina.
Another nail in the coffin! Only another 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to go. Patience is the key!
why do we have to stand british on Southamerican territory??? that is why you are isolated...
You have to understand that it's inacceptable to have a european power in our continent, that's pure colonialism. Do not bring up that it is not, because if it wasn't for UK the island would sink!
“There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
It is an important diplomatic achievement of Argentina.
Soon the flag Argentina in the “Malvinas ”
but they can run/show white flags/ is it not the union jack over the falklands. Where is the Argentinian flag [still in its box lol
www.reservas.net/app/hotelreservation.exe?1357
Fill your boots Atom Ant
Defence yes we require, and are entitled to under the UN proclomations of selfdetermination of peoples, being as we are directly threatened by a foreign power.
Several on your side of the debate often make wild claims and accusations - and whenever challenged to explain and quantify - there is usually a total silence!
On the other hand, like i said in many oportunitys, as long as the the u.k., and the f. i. g. keep on ignoring all the resolutions from the u.n., we will keep on having more and more of this kind of situations.
I will always understand the rejection of the sialndes to the fact of being part of argentina, i know that most them dont hate us, except for an idiot recalcitrant minority, but the point is that there are strong cultural reasons why the islander reject the argentine sovereignty, and that's all.
If the islanders would think deeply the situation, they would realise that none of the resolutions argue that the solution to the conflict is the transference of sovereignty to argentina, they only call both parts to find a nogotiated solution to the dispute, and that's all. if negotiations would exixst betwen both countries, both parst will have to cede in their pretentions, the islands wont never be only under argentine sovereignty, and the islanders will keep their autonomy and economic policys that they want to preserve.
I hope that some day, the u.k, and the f. i. g. leave their intransigence behind, and respect the resolutions from the u. n., if they dont do it, they will keep on being responsable for their own intransigence, beside my government should try to include the islanders to find bewten both parts a solution that respects the wishes and rights of both populations, anyway i must recognize that from the deepest of my mind, none of these posible scenarios will happen.
P.D: And that's how you would sink, blockage by our legal means.
Axel - we debate often but where are all these UN resolutions that we always ignore? Also you Govt has made it crystal clear many many times that they can have only ONE solution - Argentine control and flag flying over the Islands.- no chance of any form of “halfway” middle ground which you agree can be the only fair way. That is why our Govts dont sit down to talk - how can you when one side has already declared the only result it can accept?
It's not a fact Axel, is spurious conjecture on the part of a belligerent state.
It is also unimportant whether South America 'wants' the British in the islands. Want doesn't come into it. They are there and that is unlikely to change. we do not care what you want.
JW is bringing a negotiated solution; independence x britain leaving.
1- I am not newcomer, im here since commenting in mercopress was a dream.
2- Do you really think petroleum enterprises came to malvinas just like that? so you really think your govt brought them? are you sure sheeps and fishing covers the needs of the islands population without U.K interfering? (yeah sure, of course you need permission FOR EVERY SINGLE BREATH YOU TAKE)
that is what i called being dependant on someone/something, in your case U.K, is not just defence, let's not be hypocrite (foreign politics, power, transport, health care, higher education, and so on...)
again, hypocrisy OUT!
Regarding your second point JW, I understand that you need to believe all that because you have to to validate your position on the Falkland Islands, however with the exception of UK defending us you are entirely wrong. 'Sheeps & fishing' along with tourism and do give us sufficient income to be economically independant, Oil exploration was instigated by and is under the control of the Falkland Islands Government.
Hypocrisy? nope...it's simply that your beliefs are wrong mate.
2 sheep+bottle of Scotch and 10% off on one way ticket on tourist flight to Scotland.
For every Falkland Islander? it's a lot of ewes 'n' booze NicoDim, are you sure Argentina can afford it?
;o)
That would be enough
The paco is doing your head in.
;-p
I hope this is possible, for the good of humankind.
I understand your posture, but, likes our government or not, if tomorrow, the u.k. decides to renew the negotiations, my country will have defenetly to cede on hes pretentions, in the same way that the u.k. will have to cede.
That's a fact, negotiating does not mean submition, like i said before, the islands wont never be only under argentine sovereignty, the islanders will fight for preserving their constitution and economic policys, in the same way that we will fight (only in diplomatic ways), to exercise our sovereign rights on the islands.
I proposed in many oportunitys, an idea that i could read from a couple of students from the university from oxford, that's about the creation of an autonomous protectorate, from the falklands-malvinas islands, the islanders will keep their policys and autonomy, and argentina and the u.k. will give them defence, and that's all, i think it's the best and the fairest solution i ever heard.
I am sure that if my government would heard that kind of solution, i dont think it would reject it, we all know that we will have to cede in our pretentions if the negotiations betwen both countries are renewed.
Beside, dont take into account only the articule from our constitution, wich reffers our claim on the islands, that was made to assure that all the governments in the future, will keep our claim, but, it does not mean that we will not have to cede, if we start to negotiate again with the u.k.
I really think that the u.k., and the f. i. g. use self determination as an excuse to avoid the negotiations with my country, if that right would be applicable to our cause, then ¿why, none of the resolutions from the u. n. invoke that right to finish with the territorial dispute?, i could read other resolutions from the u. n. regarding decolonization issues, and in those resolutions the general assembly argues that self determination has to be applicable to those cases, of it were applicable to our cause, the u. n. would recognize it.
about the creation of an autonomous protectorate,Trelew, with the The Welsh Assembly Government
Daft idea?
Resolution 1514(XV) & self-determination applies to the case of Falkland Islands, which Argentina voted for. You can read the source text here:
en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_1514
Nota Bene: Declaration 6 reinforces Declaration 5. This protects territorial integrity of countries & peoples granted independence
The entire resolution addresses the rights of those peoples being granted independence, it does not confer any rights whatsoever on any countries which object to their independence, like Argentina objecting to Falkland Islands independence. Resolution 2065(XX) explicitly confirms 1514(XV) covers the case of the Falkland Islands & requires both the UK & AR to comply
It is hypocritical for the majority of modern South American states & especially Argentina, when they are populated through mass European immigration which has displaced & exterminated to native populations, to complain of colonisation when colonisation is the basis of many modern South American states
Fundamentally the reason for the demand for Britain to banished is due to South American racial discrimination. The Falklanders & British are non-hispanic & are therefore unacceptable to hispanics because they are non-hispanic. This is no argument at all
The British and the Falklanders have equal rights to be in the region and to exercise sovereignty over their territory as all other European immigrants into South American states.
The arguments about the British Empire are ridiculous and spurious, since it ceased to be over 60 years ago. The proper justifications for Britain being involved in the Falkland Islands today are the UK's role as an Administrating country under Article 73 and 1514(XV) and the free association of the Falklanders with the UK by free choice.
The reason for the UK's modest garrison is to act as a credible minimum deterrent against a repeat of 1982 AR invasion
I rode in many oportunitys what you type, i respect your posture, but this is evident that your arguments are based more in a personal opinion, than in academic knowleadge and objetivity, all my arguments are based on the conversations that i had with professors in international right from the u. b. a. (university from buenos aires).
Answer me something please, ¿if self determination is applicable to the our cause, then why none of the resolutions from the general assembly, invokes that right to finish with the territorial dispute?, like it does with other resolutions that reffer decolonization issues.
In fact in 1967, the u.k. celebrated a referendum in Gibraltar, to ask the populations, what the sovereignty they preffer, the british sovereignty, or the spanish one, finally most gibraltarins chose the remain under british government, however the u. n. didnt take as valid that referendum, because it didn't respect the spanish territorial integrity, that fact shows the relevancy of territorial integrity, beyond if you, and many other forists in mercopress preffer to understime it.
If some day, one resolution from the u. n., invokes that self determination has to be applicable to the malvinas-falklands populations, then my country will have to revew seriously if it can keep on claiming for the islands.
Beside, the argument of the implanted population, is not good, most our populations from patagonia was implanted, after the extermination of the native people, many inmigrants started to populate the patagonia, this is why the claim of the native people will always be valid and fair, exercising our legitimate rights on the patagonia since 1880, as sucessors of the spanish kingdom, dont justify the extermination of a culture that lived there during many generations.
If self determination is not appicable to our cause, is not because of the british population from the islands, it's actualy because that would brake our t. integrity, and that's all.
Axel, That is EXACTLY what the UN resolution says.
The United Nations has never called upon the British Government to discuss sovereignty over the Malvinas islands merely the problem caused by Argentina's revival of its claim and to discuss the problem of the islanders gaining there independance for there right of self determination.
”Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas); ”
However, it is agreed that resolution 1514(XV) is fully applicable to the question of Gibraltar, which in declaration 2 explicitly states:
“All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”
I think if both Spain and the UK agreed to a referendum, the UN would accept the result
As commentators have stated, to ignore the overwhelming will of the peoples to be granted independence is undemocratic & wrong
Indeed, according to your logic Spain could successfully dispute the independence of Argentina on the grounds of territorial integrity simply by repudiating their previous treaty concluding settlement with Argentina & simply lodge a dispute with the UN over their disruption no matter how large the majority of Argentines who chose independence
With respect to the Falkland Islands, this is exactly what Argentina has done by ignoring the CONVENTION between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship which was ratified by both parties in 1851
I think in the instance of 1514(XV) territorial integrity must first and foremost apply to the peoples being granted independence & it is their territorial integrity that must be protected not those attempting to frustrate independence
I do not understand the argument as to how & why the Falklands, S. Georgia, Sandwich Islands or Br. Antarctica could be considered genuinely integral to Argentina nor what is the precise nature of the disruption to territorial integrity nor national unity that Argentina claim?
States seek stability & constant territories but history teaches they change by people's choice!
Would you like to return back to UKI by Air of sea?
Would you like to start behaving like a sensible, honest, tolerant, democratic Nation.....or continue being Argentinian?
Of sea???
Anyway West seriously what do you prefer boat or direct flight?
We can arrange tasty Huggies for you meal if you want plus delicious Indian tea.
Also Kebabs are included in the menu don’t worry.
Would you like to return back to UKI by Air of sea?”
LOL. Very funny.
Not so funny for Falklanders or Argentines who have never been to the UK or Spain/Italy and call home the Falkland Islands or Argentina.
There is nowhere for them to return to, because they are already home.
Relax.
Setting yourself up as a travel agent are you Nico? very enterprising of you (for an Argie that is).
Not sure I like the look of your menu mind, Haggis & kebab? still I suppose one can't expect too much of a culinary extravaganza from someone who's idea of good food, indeed their national dish, is a lump of beef.
Also I prefer Ceylon tea.
;-p
“Not so funny for Falklanders or Argentines who have never been to the UK or Spain/Italy and call home the Falkland Islands or Argentina.
There is nowhere for them to return to, because they are already home.
Relax.”
I am relax Domingo thanks for your concern, but tell me something why persons that have never been in UK (according with you) want to be British????
Its there not something wrong here?
And here and analogy so you can see what we see:
I’m in Israel taking by force a Synagogue.
Claiming that I’m German supported by the German Army Force and Govt.
Repeating that I want to remain German, showing some pics of Adolf (by the way) while asking clemency to the Mossad and respect of my rights of self - determination to become a Nazi.
As that seems not enough I call some friends from Germany to make some holes and see what can take away.
And to make my situation even more precarious I start asking to go to the Skinhead International Court (AKA ICJ) to arrange my case legally.
Do you think that this its a good way to make friends in Israel or the best way to be killed?
Hey mate you have to agree with me that at least sound very silly what your thoughts?
Perhaps if you said Palastinian rather than German....
;-/
Most Argies don’t distinguish due to the media, little care, Anglo propaganda and your stick in the @ss of US (Special relationship) what its the difference of a English, Scot, Wesh, Irish or American.
You make that portray alone like you do here called yourself Brits what people associate more with English. Haha
People refer to been fighting the English in 1982.
But have another view on art, music, etc.
Everyone knows that Rolling Stones, The cure, etc are English, That U2 are Irish, that here there is a lot of Welsh (Knows as Galeces), Scots and Irish. But none think that and Scot or welsh was fighting against us. And none have Idea of where Camerom came from.
He could be confused with an American politician because he speaks English sad but its the reality of the shadow of the Uncle Sam and your over exposure to American foreigner policy I guess.
So after Bush/Blair era for normal people Anglos has become something general as Nazis child killers like you refer to us when talking about the Germans emigrated here.
Most people thinks in UK that a German emigrated to Argentina during WWII was a Nazi refugee.
Can you see that my analogy was not so far of reality?
Can you see Anglo propaganda its like when Americans where bombing during the WWII everyone get the blast.
www.naval-history.net/F58tumbledown.htm
I suggest you both, to read other resolutions from the general assembly regarding decolonization issues, they are all on line, you''ll see that in those resolutions the u. n. invoke self determination to finish with those colonial situations, zethe typed exactly what many resolutions about the malvinas cause argue, and as you can see, self determination is not included, when i can publish my survey, you'll read what the i. c. j. affirm about self determination, territorial integrity, and the right of sesession, i can't explain them here, we have no so much space, there are many aspects that we must take into account, beside, you know zethe that i respect your posture, but unfortunately, your arguments are based more in a personal opinion, than in acedemic level, like domingo does, there are planty of questions that you dont know.
I want you to answer me something zethe, if self determiantion is applicable to our cause, then why in none of the resolutions from the general assembly, it's argued that self determination has to applicable to the malvinas cause, it's simple, that's because it's not applicable, when you read other resolutions from the general assembly, you''ll see that it's perfectly invoked self determination as an inalienable right to finish with those colonial situations.
I included in my survey, a report from ernesto gross spiell, he was a very important uruguyan jurist, who argued that in some cases self detrmination is not applicable, i think those people knows much more than all of us, the problem is that some of you preffer to adjudge for your selves to be the owners of the international right, and make wrong interpretations.
On the other hand, domingo, it's a role from int. right, wich argues that when one territory declares it's independence, it inherites all the territory, inside of the former colonial limits, spain can't claim anything from our country, that's one of the most stupid assertions that i could heard in years.
People see you like this way mate English.
Do you really think that somebody will care about that link? Nah!
This its like you try to fine out from where was our soldiers Corrientes, Missiones, Formosa, Buenos Aires (Province) Capital?
Have you been looking for that? Surely not who cares.
So again normal people think of English what it its much better for you else they will thought...
Ah! Scot? Welsh? We can crash much easier those insets with our boots. Haha
Have you ever seen a country invaded by Scots or Welsh???
Bloody there are only sheep grass and trees. So shsss before someone realize here that and lunch an invasion to Scotland and Wells
True “English” casualties in Malvinas war in el Forro History and Mitology.
BTW this guy says TOTAL: 1090 deaths for Britain
“Verdaderas bajas inglesas en guerra de malvinas en el foro de Historia y Mitología”
www.elforro.com/historia-y-mitologia/139131-verdaderas-bajas-inglesas-guerra-de-malvinas.html
The fact is resolution 1514(XV) applies to the case of the Falklands Islands as confirmed by resolution 2065(XX) and declaration 2. states the right of self-determination applies to the Falklanders. So stop repeating you're propaganda; you're lies that 1514(XV) does not provide self-determination for people being granted independence under 1514(XV) are clear for all to see.
Axel, you only argue the position of utis possedetis juris based on a theoretical inheritance, whilst in fact Spain retained its claim via a plaque in 1812 (one year after Argentina declared independence), and Spain retained its control of Puero Soledad beyond the creation of Argentina.
The UK and the Falklanders argue discovery, effective control, 177 years of prescription and uti possedetis after the 1982 war.
I am glad you agree the argument of territorial integrity is stupid in the case of the Falklands or Argentina, however, it is you who claimed it was valid not I, hence I used the illustration of Spain applying it to Argentina, to illustrate it was analogous to Argentina apply territorial integrity to the Falkland Islands, a point that you were not able to comprehend.
Axel, self-determination is applicable if a people declaring independence say it is applicable.
As a foreign power and foreign aliens to the Falklanders, Argentines have no say whatsoever in their choices or government. No more, than Falklanders or the British have no say in the lives of Argentines.
Thus the year-long reported opinion or otherwise of some random UBA academics you fail to quote, is of no consequence.
Unfortunately, you do not express yourself well & are hard to understand but I look forward to a meaningful & substantive answer from you at some point in the future.
Have you ever seen a country invaded by Scots or Welsh???
www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/history/union_and_jacobites/jacobites_invade_england/
True “English” casualties in Malvinas war in el Forro History and Mitology.
BTW this guy says TOTAL: 1090 deaths for Britain
What a nasty little boy you are Nicotine, I can only assume you havent been in a play ground fight let alone a war,any way if it gets you off good luck to you,but would be more healthy if you used the kays catalogue
I know that i make mistakes when i type some words, but you understand perfectly what i try to express, you are not stupid.
I suggest you to read resolution 2353 (XXII), regarding the gibraltar question, in that resolution you'll se what's the opinion from the general assembly respecting territorial integrity, you can read also many other resolutions about decolonizations issues, and you'll see that self determination is perfectly invoked in those cases.
Beside, inte chapter from the u. n., it's also included territorial integrity.
If the u.k. had any sovereign right on the islands in 1833, that was only on the gran malvina (west falkland), there was a garrison during 8 years, however the rights of the u.k. were very arguable, because they left the island in 1774, and during 59 there was no any british authority in the islands, during those years there were just exporadic settlements of british sailors, but they dont give any sovereign right to the u.k., because they were part of a soposed secret treaty betwen spain and the u.k., beside they didnt exclude spain form the archipelago, like the international right exacts, on the other hand, a plaq was insignificant for the international right from that time, but it was an usual practice.
In 1833 the islands were no body's colony, we were just trying to exercise unless in a precarious way our sovereign rights, beside we didn't need the consent from spain to declare our independence, in fact that country recognized us an independent nation in 1863.
I will always respect you posture, the opinion of the british people, and the rejection of the islanders to the fact of being part of argentina, but i prefer to take as valid, the knowleadge of academic people, not even the british professors who i included in my investigation coincid with your assertions, like it or not someday you, and you compatriots will have to understand that academic people knows much more than all of us.
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