Friday, December 10th 2010 - 10:25 UTC

Falklands invites C-24 president to “balance” recent visit to Argentina

The Falkland Islands government has officially extended an invitation to the chairman of the United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization Ambassador (C 24), Donatus Keith St. Aimee to visit the South Atlantic Islands with the purpose of ‘balancing’ a recent similar invitation from Argentina and to defend the Falklands’ people right to exercise self-determination.

In the letter addressed 7 December FIG points out that during the visit to Argentina, Ambassador Donatus Keith St. Aimee is reported to have made a number of statements “which were either factually incorrect or marginalised the people of the Falkland Islands along with the founding principles of the United Nations Charter and UN Resolution 1514 (XV) on which the Decolonisation Committee is based”.

Therefore FIG decided it would set out its position and “offer you the chance to balance what you heard in Argentina through a visit to the Falkland Islands”.

Furthermore, “we believe that, as you have visited the territory of Argentina (Tierra del Fuego) which claims to be affected by the Falkland Islands Question, that you should also now visit the territory that is actually affected; namely the Falkland Islands”.

The letter describes some of Argentina’s attitudes to isolate and subjugate the Falklands by strangling the local economy and denying their people the exercise of the basic right to self determination.

In the letter the relationship of the Falkland Islands with the United Kingdom is described as having evolved naturally and progressively over the years and “it is certainly no longer colonial - it is a relationship that the people of the Falkland Islands have chosen freely”.

During the visit to Argentina Ambassador Donatus Keith St.Aimee was quoted by the Buenos Aires press saying that “the visit is important because it helps to collect the most information possible, to have an idea of the feelings and it all helps for a better understanding and action at the (UN) Committee. I can read hundreds of documents and resolutions, but nothing equals contact with reality”.

Follows the text of the letter:

H.E. Mr Donatus Keith St. Aimee
Chairman, United Nations Special Committee on Decolonisation
Your Excellency

SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DECOLONIZATION: FALKLAND ISLANDS

The question of the Falkland Islands is discussed annually at the United Nations at a meeting of the Special Committee on Decolonisation. As elected Chairman of the Special Committee on Decolonisation it is your responsibility to oversee these discussions.

The Falkland Islands Government is aware of your recent visit to Argentina, where you spoke about the Falkland Islands and the Decolonisation Committee. While the Falkland Islands Government appreciates that the Argentine Government and media have their own agendas, you are reported as making a number of statements which were either factually incorrect or marginalised the people of the Falkland Islands along with the founding principles of the United Nations Charter and UN Resolution 1514 (XV) on which the Decolonisation Committee is based. The Falkland Islands Government therefore decided it would set out its position and offer you the chance to balance what you heard in Argentina through a visit to the Falkland Islands.

The Republic of Argentina wishes to subjugate and exploit the people of the Falkland Islands, against their will, under its own full sovereignty. It justifies this by claiming that descendents of immigrants from Europe who settled in the Falkland Islands do not have the same human right to self- determination as descendents of immigrants from Europe who settled on the American continent during the same era. Conversely, the United Kingdom wishes to give the people of the Falkland Islands, like any other people, the right to self-determine freely their own political status and pursue freely their economic, social and cultural development. The Falkland Islands wishes to defend its people and its right to exercise self-determination.

The Falkland Islands and the world are very different today to what they were in the 1960s when the original language for the question of the Falkland Islands was drafted. While the islands and the world have modernised, along with the constitutional relationship between the Falkland Islands and the United Kingdom, the language of the question of the Falkland Islands within the United Nations has remained remarkably similar. It is now outdated.

The Falkland Islands Government understands that as Chairman you wish to modernise the work of the Decolonisation Committee. We believe that , as you have visited the territory of Argentina (Tierra del Fuego) which claims to be affected by the Falkland Islands Question, that you should also now visit the territory that is  namely the Falkland Islands. Therefore, on behalf of the Falkland Islands Government, I would like to invite you formally, in your capacity as Chairman of the United Nations Decolonisation Committee, to visit the Falkland Islands in order that you may appreciate the real situation. Because of the Argentine Government’s attempts to stifle our economic development, flight options are limited. I would be happy to advise you on the best way to travel to the islands. A visit, including travelling time would take at least a week out of your schedule.
The Falkland Islands’ relationship with the United Kingdom has evolved naturally and progressively over the years and it is certainly no longer colonial - it is a relationship that the people of the Falkland Islands have chosen freely. The Falkland Islands Government hopes to show you that relationship during your visit.

I have asked that the United Kingdom Permanent Mission to the United Nations send a copy of this letter to the United Nations Secretary General and request its circulation as a document of the General Assembly under agenda item 45.

Yours Sincerely

Gavin Short MLA
On behalf of Members of the Legislative Assembly

 

137 comments Feed

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1 falklandlad (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 10:32 am Report abuse
... about time. The Falklands needs to square this biased decolonisation circle. Well done MLA Short.
2 lsolde (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 10:52 am Report abuse
well done indeed.
3 Denrich (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:04 am Report abuse
Well done FIG, and keep it up, world recognition of Argentina's false claims must be brought to light.

The UK's stance on no negotiation is fine, however it does not bring to light the facts of the issue, facts which many countries who back Argentina blindly should be aware of.
4 Billy Hayes (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:10 am Report abuse
Keep talking by yourself bennies, you can do it; and happily you will soon see that you don´t need anymore your colonial masters to speak for you and I´m sure you will find the end of the dispute when this alien presence became redundant and an obstacle to your development....offer argentina and the region king´s head and became a republic, a democratic republic.
5 Redhoyt (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:12 am Report abuse
:-)

The FIG is keen to address the lies circulated by Argentina and that is understandable. The UK should encourage and assist them where possible, whilst maintaining that famous British Brick Wall!

The question is - will Donatus Keith St. Aimee have the bottle to show. After all the FIG have invited the C-24 before without result, a bias the C-24 struggles to live down!
6 NicoDin (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:12 am Report abuse
And ... crik...crik...crik...???

Mr Donatus Keith where are you?... crik...crik..crik..crik........

nothing che...
7 Redhoyt (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:31 am Report abuse
Billious - this infatuation with 'masters' ....... it's not a sexual thing with you? No?
8 Think (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:35 am Report abuse
OMG….

”…….you are reported as making a number of statements which were either factually incorrect or marginalised the people of ……”

”…….you should also now visit the territory that is actually affected…… ”

”…..request its circulation as a document of the General Assembly…..”
You are reported !!……………You should !!…………Request its circulation !!

Mates ….. …..This is a letter to an UN Ambassador, not an eviction note to one of your colonial servants………………..

Didn’t the FIGleaf engage the services of a important PR firm some months ago?

Let them do something for their money mates!
9 ed (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:50 am Report abuse
Malvinas Islanders have to declare their Independence from
UK Monarchy by using self-determination rights
and change their flag ( sheep figure !.. what a shame ! )..

after UN's recognising..We may negotiate with them.
10 Redhoyt (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 11:51 am Report abuse
Got some bad news for you Think ... the FIG have stolen, yes! stolen! the wording used by Argentine documents to the UN which also 'demand' circulation. Cleverly done I thought :-)
11 Think (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 12:03 pm Report abuse
I know, I knowbut that letter was adressed to the Secretariate not personally to an Ambassador.......

I also seem to recall that you ridiculized that particular Argie request at the time..........
12 Denrich (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 12:15 pm Report abuse
@9 ed
Are you reduced to copy & paste now ? You posted this comment in another discussion.

The Falkland Islanders do not have to declare independence, they have the right to decide their own future and will do so.
The UN does recognise the Islands as a British overseas territory, as for negotiating with Argentina, well you know that will never happen.

Face facts Argentina, your hopes of modern colonialism have failed, the FIG will stand it's own ground and increase it's recognition on the international world scene.

The only way to stop a bully is to confront them, a little like David & Golliath.

Your 'malvinas' days are over Argentina, time for a reality check.
13 Redhoyt (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
Not I :-)
14 Zethee (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 01:23 pm Report abuse
I wonder if he'll accept the invitation.
15 ed (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 02:49 pm Report abuse
# 12 Denrich, my valioso mate....

your comment is the evidence of why Brits never have mathematicians
in the human history !
but I understand your Monarchy worship pschology !
16 yaghan (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
And what is it that you kelpers want Mr Donatus Keith to see? A transplanted lifestyle 14000 km away from its source? What is it that you achieved by yourselves that you are so proud of?
17 Redhoyt (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 03:00 pm Report abuse
The islanders could tell him the truth! After Argentina now that would be a change :-)
18 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
Your point is what exactly Yaghan? A transplanted lifestyle 14000 km away from its source is exactly what Mr Keith saw in TDF...
19 Denrich (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 03:34 pm Report abuse
@15 ed

No mathematicians eh....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_mathematicians

Nothing wrong with a Monarchy ed, many of us are proud of it.

However 'malvinas' worship psycholigy is not healthy.

@16 yaghan.

“Transplanted lifestyle” hahahaha, how can you comment when you have no idea of the lifestyle of a Falkland Islander ? The Islanders lifestyle is exclusive and unique.
What the Islanders want Mr Donatus Keith to see is that the Islands are not an outpost of British colonialism and are happy to remain a self governing overseas territory.
Once this is proven then the case is no longer a concern for Mr Donatus Keith and the c24 commitee, job done.
20 Rufus (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:02 pm Report abuse
@19 Denrich

Compare and contrast with...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Argentine_mathematicians

Can you guess which list is nearly 24 times longer?

I'm constantly amazed at how the C24 can say anything sensible about a place and it's population without having been there at all. No but wait, they're probably all far too busy organising yet another plebicite in Tokelau to actually visit the people who they are supposed to be representing...
21 xbarilox (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
“The letter describes some of Argentina’s attitudes to isolate and subjugate the Falklands by strangling the local economy and denying their people the exercise of the basic right to self determination.” Oh, the poor little kelpers, Argentina is so evil, sniff sniff.
22 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:18 pm Report abuse
Sure, you steal something and over time legalizes crime.
We must be modern!
23 Rufus (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
@22

Like Patagonia?
24 Wireless (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:30 pm Report abuse
This is great, if the guy refuses to come the C24 shows itself to be irrelevant, if he does turn up he would struggle to get there and back in less than a week, exposing the Argentine blockade on travel and the impact on the economy of the islands, and that is before he even gets there to see through the lies of Argentina.

This letter is the worse news the Argentine Government could get, since either the FIG instruct the UK to ignore all further contact with the C24, or the visit proves the Islands need to be removed from the C24 list. Either way, the Islands come off the list and we can ignore the C24.

So, the ICJ then, come on Argentina, take the matter there...
25 Zethee (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:42 pm Report abuse
“Argentine blockade on travel and the impact on the economy of the islands, and that is before he even gets there to see through the lies of Argentina.”

Would be hilarious is he goes to visit and his ship is harrased by this so called blockade.

And i agree, if he decides not to visit the people he's supposed to be representing, they should pull out of the c24, no longer attend the thing.
26 Denrich (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 04:55 pm Report abuse
@20 Rufus

“Compare and contrast with...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Argentine_mathematicians”

HAHAHA nice one Rufus, never thought to compare them :)

@ed
With the lack of maturity displayed in your posts I feel myself wondering if your age is yet in double fugures.
27 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
@ed

”change their flag ( sheep figure !.. what a shame ! )..”

at least it's not a Father Christmas hat on a stick...
28 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
Mr Gavin Short
Please don't be jealous. Mr Donatus Keith St. Aimee has already visited Argentina, he doesn't have time to visit every corner of our Republic.
29 stick up your junta (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
he doesn't have time to visit every corner of our Republic

just greater Buenos Aires where a third of you Argies huddle,all that land and the argies cant be arsed to leave the tit of the capital,whinging for the Falklands
30 ed (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
@19 , @20 , @26 , @27 ;

tg (20) - tg (19) = 0.02 ---> A

sin (27) - sin (26) = 0.02 ---> B

(A - B ) = 0 ....or... (B - A) = 0
31 Typhoon (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 08:30 pm Report abuse
Now a chance to see the truth.

Will the president of C-24 visit the Falkland Islands, listen to the people and make an acceptable judgement?

Or will he prove that he and his “committee” are just Argie puppets?
32 Kiwisarg (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 09:03 pm Report abuse
28 Marcos Alejandro , you really great Marcos!!! Mr Gavin Short
Please don't be jealous. Mr Donatus Keith St. Aimee has already visited Argentina, he doesn't have time to visit every corner of our Republic.
33 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 10th, 2010 - 09:12 pm Report abuse
They'll tell Mr. Donatus Keith St. Aimee they stole the Malvinas to the Argie, but as long time we live here we want to build a country with territory argie. Tell the truth?
34 Redhoyt (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 12:27 am Report abuse
Yes Marvin - the truth! Not Argentina's twisted version of it.
35 Monty69 (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 01:21 am Report abuse
Good grief, what a feeble bunch we have on here this evening.

Mal, who still thinks that Argentina has a monopoly on the truth and the only right to be heard. Charming.
Kiwi who can't actually come up with an idea of his own and has to quote someone else's meaningless drivel.
Ed.... no idea what planet he's on.
Xbox who's so far lost the plot as to admit that Argentina is evil. Either that or he's sneering pathetically at something that is obviously true.

These guys must be making the rest of you Argentines very proud.
36 lsolde (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 08:37 am Report abuse
l think they're frightened Monty69, & they are whistling in the graveyard.
@6 nico tico loco has turned into a frog.
@8 think just sits in the corner repeating what other people have said (wait thats not all bad, say after me snr think,“the Falklands do NOT belong to Argentina”. repeat 100 times each day).
@9 ed has found someone to cut and paste for him, and from his other posts sounds like a complete moron anyway.talking about silly flags, never knew the sun had a face on it?
@16 yaghan, another small-brain
@21 xbox, you're dribbling again. please go and clean yourself.
@22 malvinense, your country should know all about stealing. when are you going to give back the land you stole from Paraguay? when are you going to return the land you stole from the native people from Patagonia?
@32kiwisarg, shouldn't you be doing your school homework?
yes indeed, feeble it is.
come on down C-24
37 JustinKuntz (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 11:47 am Report abuse
Relax, he won't visit. The c24 have been invited repeatedly to both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands in the past. They're always declined to visit.

By the way the C24 exists to represent the people of dependent territories. That is supposed to be their mission.

Bermuda annoys the C24 they're twice had referenda inspired by the C24 and twice they've opted to remain a BOT. The C24 is basically no longer fit for purpose, it doesn't represent the people it is supposed to, it doesn't listen to what they want and now exists solely to provide a platform for Spain and Argentina to grand stand political claims. Abolish it, its a waste of space.
38 briton (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 07:19 pm Report abuse
As you say, if they come, they must exept the islanders, so they only visit there paymasters , Argentina and spain , perhaps C24 should be scrapped ?
39 ed (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 08:15 pm Report abuse
mates ....

come to Republic..don't insist on Mowoism...

NOTE : don't look around Mowoism meaning at Wikipedia..vainly.
Mowoism = Monarchy Worship ( is a kind of bizarre religion )
40 Zethee (#) Dec 11th, 2010 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
No, we like our queen.
41 Sergio Vega (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 12:50 am Report abuse
36@ Isolde, you´r wrong about Patagonia. It was stolen from Chile, not native people.....

About the C 24 Chairman, it totally clear that he is not impartial over the issue and pre judge the situation with just one side info.....and not the relevant side, of course. He must work on behalf of the inhabitants of the territory involved, not on behalf of the foreign that claim it as their own.
But, anyway, if he visit the FI, he must hear the argumnets of the people who lives there and if not visit the Islands he will be desqualificate to lead the Commetee.
I have been visiting the Islands and their way of life is unique, special and no comparative with the British way of live, even their roots come from there, of course...as the Argentines roots comes from Spain mainly and Italy after.
42 Islander1 (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 01:25 am Report abuse
This guy is now between an rock and a hard-place, His big error of political judgement was in not coming straight onto the Falklands after his visit to Argentina.
If he now comes and visits us- all well and good. If he does not - the UN Secretary General will be duty bound sack him for showing open bias.
43 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 01:29 am Report abuse
@36 Isolde, Not steal to Paraguay. They invaded Argentina. After the war had treated with them. Know who were involved in this war? British, as always.
Paraguay was a power in that time and his for country was not appropriate. Isolde, precisely the British worried about the natives!!! please!!!
44 mike_rojas (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 04:24 am Report abuse
He will be glad to visit argentinian Old Puerto Soledad ruins, and stones, where english established their settlement in 1833 before move to Stanley in 1842.
If the day is clear, he will be able to see the ruins, pieces of stone, of the 'ranchos' made by argentinian gauchos. These are not declamations. The ruins exists.
UK is right, didn't eject all population at all in 1833. They expelled just the authorities and educated people. They gain the gauchos and indians who were able to cattle wild cows, and survive to the cold weather. Their were the hands they used to put a foot in East Falkland and not fail as in Port Eggmont in West Falkland, later abandoned.
Antonina Roxa was an argentinian gaucha, who helped a lot those cold first years.
When Darwin visited the Islands with the Beagle, he ate 'asado con cuero' (meat rosted with the skin) made by the gauchos. He didn't have pudding.
45 Zethee (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 05:11 am Report abuse
“he will be able to see the ruins, pieces of stone, of the 'ranchos' made by argentinian gauchos. These are not declamations. The ruins exists.”

The rights of people who have been dead for 170 years clearly overrule the rights of the people who are alive, now.
46 Think (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 05:19 am Report abuse
(44) Mike_Rojas

“He didn't have pudding.” :-)))

Sweet!
47 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 08:05 am Report abuse
Mike, don't you find it interesting that some of today's Falkland Islanders are descended from Antonia Roxas.
48 stick up your junta (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 08:55 am Report abuse
Tut tut Mrs. Kirchner

There have also been allegations that the attackers were members of gangs paid for by local politicians linked to the governing party.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11977629
49 NicoDin (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 09:25 am Report abuse
@Sticky

Ah! Sticky and his dairy report of Bolivian, Chilean, Paraguayan and Peruvian News.

And who was accused to pay to create its chaos was Mauricio Macri Bobo
50 ed (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 10:33 am Report abuse
#36 Isolde ..cut name of Isolation !?

I know that you live in the very primitive problematic conditions..

I don't use telephone,radio,tv,internet..
I use -PRX-13b- monitor 30/50 cm !?
51 Monty69 (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 10:39 am Report abuse
44 mike_rojas;
This isn't a secret Mike, this is history. There are families here with gaucho names, and words in daily use with South American Spanish origins, particularly names for geographical features and horsy things.
It doesn't mean anything, except that it's part of what makes the Falkland Islands unique and special.
I'm guessing you're talking about Port Louis? We call it that because the French were there first. We don't find it necessary to give it some made- up English name.
52 mike_rojas (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 02:10 pm Report abuse
Monty69, I guess history made Islanders unique.
The name of Port Louis/ Port Soledad, you are right, the french were first, but sold the colony to Spain. After that, the Islands were commanded from Buenos Aires Capitany, till 1833. It is not my intention to talk about history, we all know about it.
I don't know who the islands really belong, cos there is not any treaty about them. And it is documented that Onslow and their men lowered the Argentinian Flag, wich was ruling still 1833, before raise the Union Jack.
And if some believe that the islands were empty when Onslow arrived in 1833, I must say he lies. ( I have heard that so many times )
God knows it is necesary to develop new and mature relations with SW Atlantic neighbours.
53 Think (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 04:21 pm Report abuse
Port Louis/ Port Soledad
Londinium/ London

History is fun.........

Malouines for Sarko?
City of London for Berlusca?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_London
54 Domingo (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
I also read that the Viceroyalty of the River Plate administered its prison in Puerto Soledad from Montevideo?

I also read that the commandant in 1832, Mestivier, commanded Puerto Soledad for about 50 days in October to November before he was killed when his soldiers mutineered and effective control was lost.

I also read that it was the BA Unitarian revolutionary authorities - the Decembristas under Juan Lavalle - who issued the decree of 10th June 1832 which authorised Mestivier's commandantship.

I also read that all acts, decrees and laws and of the illegal revolutionary government were cancelled by the legal Federal Government of Juan Manuel de Rosas in December, 1832 when the Federal Government regained control of Buenos Aires.

I read when the British HMS Clio arrived in January 1833, the Argentinian ship ARA Sarandi had been unable to regain effective control, put down the muntiny and restore peace and order.

Control and order were restored by the crews of the British ship Rapid and the French ship Jean-Jacques who captured the mutineers and put them into the Sarandi's custody under Colonel Pinedo's command.

It was then the British ordered the Viceroyalty military forces to leave, which they did and the large majority of the small civilian population chose to stay on the Falkland Islands.
55 Wireless (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
Actually, the Islands were subject to Spanish administration of the Spanish Settlement until they left in 1811, before they left the Islands were administered from Montevideo, not Buenos Aires.
The British already had Sovereignty of the Islands, pre-dating the Spanish arrival, and maintained their Sovereignty using the International methods accepted at the time.
The Argentine private enterprise under Vernet was given permission to take place by the British Ambassador in Buenos Aires, and only when Argentina attempted to gain Sovereignty, thereby invoking the Secret Article agreed with Spain within the Nootka Sound Convention, did Britain exercise its protection of its Sovereignty, and expel the Military Garrison that Argentina had landed on the Islands. Only a handful of the civilian population elected to leave the Islands with the Garrison, and they were hardly all the 'educated people' alluded to by Mike @44.
The descendents of those people, including their surnames and some of their language, used for place names and equine descriptions, are a part of the present population and culture of the Falkland Islands, which is unique, and I am proud that my taxes aid the Islanders as they wish in their Defence and Foreign Affairs.
However, I am glad that they wish to take the bull by the horns and sort out the C24 once and for all.
56 JustinKuntz (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 05:26 pm Report abuse
Yes history is interesting, Luis Vernet renamed Puerto Soledad, Puerto Luis in 1828. Whether it was vanity or reverting to the original name is not recorded.

The only people “expelled” in January 1833 were the ARA Sarandi, the rump of the garrison and the mutineers. And calling it an expulsion is a bit of an exaggeration. They were asked to leave.

And Puerto Soledad was indeed administered from Montevideo not Buenos Aires.
57 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
“the french were first, but sold the colony to Spain. After that, the Islands were commanded from Buenos Aires Capitany, till 1833”

A woefully inaccurate statement if I ever saw one. Was that the same Spanish “Capitany” after 1810? And did the Spanish viceroy not move to Montevideo, the Falklands would have last been governed by Spain out of Montevideo and not BsAs?

Mike, you say it's not your intention to talk history, because “we all know it”. Well it's fairly obvious that you don't! And anyway, the history is all very interesting, but irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the Falkland Islanders right to self determination which trumps everything else. And I mean everything.
58 Domingo (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
Out of interest and as a matter of fact the Argentine National Archives record the four civilians who chose not to stay after Onslow's request to stay as:

Joaquín Acuña and his wife Juana
Mateo González and his wife Marica

who left Port Solitude/'Luis' in the 3 to 8 gun? BA Schooner of War Sarandi on 5th January, 1833.

N.B Data are not from wikileaks, but from wikisource ;-D :

en.wikisource.org/wiki/Soldiers_and_Civilians_who_left_Port_Louis
59 stick up your junta (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
This is for nicotine
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/boxing/3272551/Amir-Khan-beat-Marcos-Maidana-with-a-unanimous-points-win-in-Las-Vegas.html
True Brit
60 Billy Hayes (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
Domingo...who called britain to intervene in a Confederation territory??

Mestivier & Sarandi situation was an internal affair for River Plate busineses.

Abusive behaviour against a forming and weak state; plain and simple: an invasion.
61 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 09:11 pm Report abuse
“Abusive behaviour against a forming and weak state; plain and simple: an invasion”

You could say that about Patagonia too, you know, Roca's conquista del desierto: an invasion, plain and simple. “Abusive behaviour” is a nice way of putting it.
62 Redhoyt (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 11:05 pm Report abuse
Yup, you are quite right Think ... history is fun :-)

Good morning all, good to see the history lessons are still being made, even if the pupils are deaf and a tad thick! Falkland islands still British? Yes! Ah, then all's well with the world :-))
63 Billy Hayes (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 11:13 pm Report abuse
“You could say that about Patagonia too, you know, Roca's conquista del desierto: an invasion, plain and simple. “Abusive behaviour” is a nice way of putting it.”

Roca´s conquest was a disgrace; I prefer General Mansilla aproach; but don´t worry; luckily Argentina is trying to fix that situation supporting our fellow aboriginal countrymen to be restored in their human rights.

Wha´t about britain and their disgrace in south atlantic?
64 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 12th, 2010 - 11:21 pm Report abuse
@55 beautiful story, but wrong. the Islands were administered from Montevideo, not Buenos Aires. Is true, Montevideo was part of the Viceroyalty of Río de la Plata. What is the problem?.
“The British already had Sovereignty of the Islands, pre-dating the Spanish arrival” That British sovereignty! They had nothing to do in Spanish dominions. In 1765 Byron came in secret expedition. Made a simple takeover and went. One year after the French. McBride arrived in 1766, established a small military garrison. Two years after the French. First occupied the islands the French!!! That British sovereignty!!!. The islands had a Spanish governor since 1767. Treaty of 1771. The Spanish king in HIS STATEMENT made an express reservation of sovereignty, to safeguard its right above. Not so, the English king.
The RESTITUTION of the PORT and FORT EGMONT was demanded and granted as COMPENSATION for the INJURY to the BRITISH FLAG. It mentions only the restitution of the Port and Fort Egmont.
No mention of restitution of the islands. Neither Saunders Island. (Trinidad Island). Were never in Gran Malvina Island (West Falkland). NEVER. Were never in Soledad Island (East Falkland). NEVER. The establishment illegal, precarious and ephemeral does not give even an inchoate title.
And most important. They went home. Not for economic reasons. Agreement was reached. The RESTITUTION of the PORT and FORT EGMONT was demanded and granted as COMPENSATION for the INJURY to the BRITISH FLAG. In turn, the British had to leave the island. Therefore, no war broke out.
1774. They went home!! Fulfilled their part of the deal!!!
1.774-1829 silence.
1811-1820 The islands were empty. silence.
1820 Jewett takes possession of the islands. silence. silence until 1829.
What are the British title?
No good
use of force.
Natives.
self-determination.
myths.
permission given to the Spanish governors and Vernet.
65 JustinKuntz (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 12:04 am Report abuse
Where is Montevideo?

Err its in Uruguay

Ergo per Utis Possidetis Juris Argentina doesn't have a clain.
66 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 12:59 am Report abuse
Still relying on school text books Marvin - Argentine school books, Argentine myths.

If you're so sure of your historical facts, why not go to the ICJ ?

:-)
67 dab14763 (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 01:09 am Report abuse
“The British already had Sovereignty of the Islands, pre-dating the Spanish arrival” What British sovereignty! They had nothing to do in Spanish dominions.

What Spanish dominions? In 1648 when Spain signed the Treaty of Münster recognising Dutch independence, it recognised that its territories were those it actually held:

www.scribd.com/doc/33633447/Treaty-of-Munster-article-V

“And each one, that is to say, the said Lords the King and States, respectively, shall remain in possession of and enjoy such lordships,
towns, castles, fortresses, commerce and countries of the East and West Indies, as well as of Brazil, and on the coasts of Asia, Africa, and America, respectively, which the said Lords the King and States, respectively, hold
and possess”

There was no Spanish presence on the Falklands until the French handed over their settlement.

1811 to 1820 to 1829 to 1833 to 1836 to 1859 to 1863 to 2010. At no time during this time did Spain relinquish its own claim or formally or explicitly cede its own claim to the Falklands to Argentina, ergo Jewetts actions have no legal validity.
68 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 01:14 am Report abuse
And to add to Dab - there was NO secret deal to leave the islands in 1771. Nothing more than a rumour put about by the Spanish to save face following their diplomatic defeat by the British. Losers can say what they like, but the effect is likely to be minimal.

The British in 1771 considered that they had sovereignty over ALL the Falklands Islands.

We still do!
69 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 01:34 am Report abuse
@Justin, Go to the back of the class. Now in Uruguay, once belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata. What is the problem?.
“Ergo per Utis Possidetis Juris Argentina doesn't have a claim” Say why.
@Red, Myths I said no. Do not criticize the Argentine school textbooks if you do not read. Read them, then criticize.
70 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 03:40 am Report abuse
I read what you and others write ... as your information is incorrect I am able to deduce that your education in this area is deficient!

Myths!
71 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 03:47 am Report abuse
“Three years later, the British did formally leave the islands and they passed into the Spanish Empire for the next forty years. This arrangement was formally recognised by the British in the 1790 Nootka Sound Convention by which Britain formally rejected any colonial ambitions in 'South America and the islands adjacent'.

The Spanish claim on the islands would falter with the South American Wars for Independence at the start of the nineteenth century. The Spanish removed their formal representative and settlers from the island from 1810 and completed it by 1811. The islands were left to their fate for the next decade as sealing and whaling ships might call in from time to time to take advantage of the harbour and fresh water. It was not to be until 1820 that the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata would send a frigate to the islands to reassert control to themselves as the legacy of post-colonial Spanish claims to authority.”

www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland.htm
72 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 05:18 am Report abuse
I have e-mailed that history teacher and told him he's wrong .... he has a disclaimer accepting that his facts may be wrong.

I'd try a better source if I were you MoreCrap!
73 NicoDin (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 07:43 am Report abuse
@Sticky
For YOU
Oh! Snif, snif....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlIQnlmJcEM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VXbqA1YRqY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nptqqjkxZcU&NR=1
74 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 08:27 am Report abuse
@Marcos

“The Purpose of the Site: First of all, I would like to make it clear that this site is not a rigourous academic site. I am sure there are plenty of mistakes and oversights on my part; for which I apologise in advance.”

Perhaps you should find a better source.

@Billy Hayes
“Wha´t about britain and their disgrace in south atlantic?”

What about Britain?

We support to people of the Falkland Islands in their right to self determination, support them in their right to develop their country in the way they want. The only disgrace in the South Atlantic in the last half decade is the aggressive, illegal and desperately stupid invasion by Argentina.
75 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 09:30 am Report abuse
“ ... While Argentine debt has rallied, the nation’s borrowing costs remain the third highest among major emerging markets after Venezuela and Ecuador, according to data compiled by JPMorgan.
Argentina owed $6.868 billion as of the end of last year to the governments of 16 nations including Canada, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, the U.K. and the U.S., according to the Paris Club’s website. In 1956, Argentina received the first loan the Paris-based group ever made....... Boudou may be overestimating his bargaining position, said Kiguel, who now runs Buenos Aires-based research company Econviews. Fernandez announced Nov. 15 that the Paris Club agreed to Argentina’s request to hold the talks without oversight from the International Monetary Fund..... ”Argentina is probably too optimistic about how the talks will go,” Kiguel said. “If they don’t want the IMF involved, and it looks like they don’t, the Paris Club will demand that the payment be made within a relatively short period of maybe 18-24 months.”
Argentina’s record $52 billion in reserves, which Fernandez is using to pay debt, along with the country’s current account surplus make it unlikely that Paris Club nations will offer lenient terms ....”

As you are not so friendly, I wonder why the UK lends you money?

www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/lowest-rates-since-bear-stearns-failure-signal-debt-deal-argentina-credit.html
76 NicoDin (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 10:22 am Report abuse
@ Redhoyt

Um...
“U.S. and European lenders may seek to restore credit to Argentina within months of an accord since export-import credit gives priority to goods and service providers from lender nations struggling after the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression, Sandy said.”

So what is the problem I would wait for another year when the situation in EU and US will be worse and also I will ask for good haircut.

: )
77 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 11:17 am Report abuse
But then again .. they may not!
78 yaghan (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 03:00 pm Report abuse
@18: And what is your point, Roberts? What is the transplanted lifestyle you are talking about? The Fuegian community is not a copy of any spanish community, if that is what you mean. Furthermore, it is not an european overseas territory. Can you say the same yourselves?
@36 You yourself do not appear to be bright at all. False accusations of land theft, and mockery, that is all you show here. Dull contributions from a numb human being.
“It is simplicity that makes the uneducated more effective than the educated when addressing popular audiences. ” Aristotle
79 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
“The Fuegian community is not a copy of any spanish community”.

Oh, you could have fooled me... do you not speak Spanish in TDF, have mostly Spanish surnames, descend mostly from Spanish - or at least European - ancestors (having wiped out most of the natives). Is the name of your province, Tierra del Fuego, not a Spanish name? Do most of the major towns and geographical features not have Spanish names?

And what's wrong with being an overseas territory?
80 WestisBest (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 05:23 pm Report abuse
@78

Whatever yaghan, It's very touching how you seem to believe that in severing your ties with Spain you somehow wipe your slate clean, all the colonialism & atrocities of your past are then magically someone elses fault.

We Falkland Islanders have no reason to be ashamed of our past so don't need to resort to such shabby deception.
81 NicoDin (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
“You don’t know me I don’t know you why don’t drink a beer and see what can we do?”
NicoOdin 2010 AC : )
82 Typhoon (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 08:10 pm Report abuse
@76 I'll give you a haircut!
83 briton (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 10:02 pm Report abuse
I thought all argies were bald with shock
84 Redhoyt (#) Dec 13th, 2010 - 11:22 pm Report abuse
gdr - how come EVERYONE tells lies about Argentina? Or is it Argentina that tells lies to itself?
85 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 12:28 am Report abuse
@ 67 Dab, “What Spanish dominions?” Just a simple observation: in this part of the world speak Spanish.
With the exception of the Malvinas Islands. Of course after usurpation. Although some Spanish words survive in the Malvinas.
@70 Red, After much discussion, we could have a beer, even though you're far away. It is easier with Monty 69.
But ... did not respond to the myths.
86 Kiwisarg (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 12:31 am Report abuse
84 briton (#) and 85 Redhoyt (#)

I hope that most people in the Malvinas Islands are better than you, because people like you, full of recentemente, liar, you little smart as you, Briton, malvinas, should disappear or return to their fantastic Uk. I think that would join the majority of people such as you and not waste their time talking about low productivity as you are doing Mr. Briton. You should be ashamed to be in Our Malvinas Islands wasting time and not working. Please try to improve his behavior to be as educated and more intelligent, Mr Briton
87 WestisBest (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 01:47 am Report abuse
Why don't you try to improve your sense of humour Kiwisarg, Briton & Redhoyt were taking the piss you knob.
88 Redhoyt (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 03:51 am Report abuse
Marvin, I try not to deal with myths. The history of the Falklands Islands is complicated and cannot be taken out of context. Hence I believe that Argentina has got it wrong. They had no right of inheritance because the principle of Uti Posseditis Juris was not well established in 1833. Arguably this principle was not accepted within South America until 1848, and not 'internationally' recognised until the 20th Century.

On that basis the British action in 1833 was perfectly legal as it involved the sovereignty dispute that had existed between Spain and Britain since 1765. Britain won the dispute because Spain didn't make any challlenge in or after 1833.

A legal action cannot be theft! Therefore, the British are in possession of the Falkland Islands perfectly legitimately. Argentina has no claim.

1833 finished the matter, and Argentina was never really a player in the game.

Kiwi - I am not an islander. I am British. I am very proud of British achievements over the last 400 years. Assuming that the Kiwi bit means that you are half New Zealander, then so should you! The islands cannot disappear and seem to be unmoveable ....... so the status quo is likely to remain :-)
89 dab14763 (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 06:46 am Report abuse
@ 67 Dab, “What Spanish dominions?” Just a simple observation: in this part of the world speak Spanish.
With the exception of the Malvinas Islands. Of course after usurpation. Although some Spanish words survive in the Malvinas.

@86Malvi, please pay attention to what I post. You said that Britain had no right in Spanish dominions, but since Spain accepted in 1648 that its dominions were those territories it held, then those territories it did not hold, including the Falklands, were not part of Spain's dominions. Nor were they in 1690 or 1765.

Britain or any other European power had as much right to conquer and/or settle those territories, including the Falklands, that were not part of Spanish dominions.

The Spanish words in the Falklands are just as likely to be from the Buenos Aires Gauchos who settled in the Falklands in the 1850s as they are to be from Vernet's Gauchos of the late 1820s, if not more likely.
90 lsolde (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 09:23 am Report abuse
@78 yaghan, 1) do you deny that Argentina stole land from Paraguay?
2)do you deny that Argentina murdered, raped and conquered Patagonia? l knew that they had done this to the native people, now it would appear that they took land from Chile too(if Senor Vega #41 is correct). lf you will not read other history books beside Argentinean ones & still deny these facts then you are a liar and a fool. the Argentinean Empire has been constantly expanding since the late 19th century but l'm afraid you have run into a stumbling block with the Falklands & Antarctica(2 territories that you DO NOT own). develope your own country and keep your covetous,greedy eyes off other people's possessions
91 Kiwisarg (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 09:30 am Report abuse
89 Redhoyt (#)
yes!!, I am Argentinien, could be half Kiwi so it is a pleasure for me. But I could never be half Inglés. As Argentinien you could say that the Islands are very important to us and is now a feeling and what they mean Malvinas Islands for us who were there and what were not. Not to mention their resources, OK! do you understand Probably you not Because you are are English from 14 000 milles from the Malvinas Islands. I hope we can keep on talking without much resentment and I think it could help too much.
92 WestisBest (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 09:46 am Report abuse
“As Argentinien you could say that the Islands are very important to us and is now a feeling and what they mean Malvinas Islands for us who were there and what were not.”

What do you mean? are you an 82 veteran?
93 Redhoyt (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 10:52 am Report abuse
Kiwi - I am sorry you feel so strongly about the British Falkland islands .... you have been mislead!
94 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 11:15 am Report abuse
Kiwisarg could not be half English. Just as well. I feel sorry for the Scots, Welsh and Irish though... especially if he claims ancestry from them. Even more ironic considering many Falkland Islanders have Scottish roots.
95 Redhoyt (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 01:33 pm Report abuse
That Telam prints some rubbish - english.telam.com.ar/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10795:malvinas-is-the-remnant-problem-of-a-successful-decolonization-process&catid=34:society

This article is by Jorge Argüello and contains a wonderful amount of misinformation. For example - “ ... The second relevant event happened years later, in 1965, and involved Argentina, when the U.N. General Assembly decided to consider the Malvinas issue as “a special and particular case of colonialism, since it involved a dispute of sovereignty between two parties, Argentina and the United Kingdom. It was a great Argentine diplomatic success, with 94 votes in favor, 14 against and no abstentions...”

The only relevant UN GA Resolution in 1965 was Resolution 2065 (XX)
'Question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)' dated December 1965. All it says is - ” ... Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)... “

No mention of any ” special and particular case of colonialism ..” although it does mention the interests of the population.

Argentina's ' Ambassador. Permanent Representative of Argentina before the United Nations.' tells lies ... and to his own people !!!

Now I understand why so many Argentine contributors to this site are so brainwashed lol
96 lsolde (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
that they surely are Redhoyt, that they are
97 yaghan (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 03:04 pm Report abuse
And you are not, surely.
@79
Roberts, according to your own sayings kelpers are no different from any typical rural settlement in the UK. Yet, they declare to be “unique”. What should be the reason for that?
There are important exceptions for the rule of spanish patronimic names: The capital and southernmost city in the world is named respecting the Yamana word for the region, and another town nearby, Tolhuin bears its name for the same reason.
The wiping of the natives is the result of interactions with European settlers. In the case of the Yaghan, as a result of inhability to cope with diseases brought by Westerners. You tried a resettlement in Keppel Island with no positive result.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaghan
In the case of the Selk'nam, they were hunted for bounty by british and european settlers. Most famous hunters were; Julius Popper, Alexander Mc Lennan, Mister Bond, Alexander Cameron, Samuel Hyslop, John Mc Rae, Montt E. Wales. The prize was one pound per ear pair, and the London Anthropological Museum paid eight pounds per head.
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidio_selk'nam
98 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
“according to your own sayings kelpers are no different from any typical rural settlement in the UK”

Where did I say that Yaghan?

On the contrary, the Falkland Islanders do have a unique culture. It quite obviously has its roots in British culture, but it's as different to British culture. It is not a copy of any British culture.

Just like “the Fuegan community is not a copy of any Spanish community” even though the Fuegan culture quite obviously has its roots in Spanish culture - as I have pointed out.

You did not answer any of my questions by the way. I'll ask them again: 1. Do you not speak Spanish in TDF?
2. Do modern-day Fuegans not have mostly Spanish surnames? Emphasis on the word MOSTLY.
3. If not Spanish are the surnames not mostly European?
4. Is the name of your province, Tierra del Fuego, not a Spanish name? 5. Do most of the major towns and geographical features not have Spanish names? I know Ushuaia is not have a Spanish name, but Rio Grande is, and that's the 2nd biggest town in TDF no? And most other towns and features, lakes, mountains, capes, etc have Spanish names no?

By the way, I would be careful about relying on Wikipedia to back up your assertions. Anyone can edit Wikipedia. It's hardly an independent source.
99 yaghan (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 04:45 pm Report abuse
” do you not speak Spanish in TDF, have mostly Spanish surnames, descend mostly from Spanish - or at least European - ancestors (having wiped out most of the natives). Is the name of your province, Tierra del Fuego, not a Spanish name? Do most of the major towns and geographical features not have Spanish names?”
These are the questions you posed. A quick analysis shows that what you use to differentiate between original and derived cultures are: language, genealogy and toponimic names used. Now, the kelper community speaks no language but English, individuals have british surnames and descend from British ancestors (having expelled the former inhabitants and allowing immigration only from carefully chosen countries). Major towns and geographical names are in English. This is what is to be found everywhere in rural Britain.
I accept your advice on Wikipedia, pointing out that it is better to document your statements whenever possible using whatever source you may find convenient. In this way there is little room left for misunderstandings, plus you offer a broader view on your beliefs. You should try it at least once. In this way, your statement “the Falkland Islanders do have a unique culture” would add examples of the alleged uniquedness, thus leading to a fruitful exchange of ideas.
Answer to your questions:
1. Yes, with some english spoken as well.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
I point out that 1+2+3+4 does not sum up to a transplanted spanish community, as you suggest.
100 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 06:36 pm Report abuse
Since you answer “yes” to my questions (there were 5 actually, but I'll let you off the last one) then you agree that TDF culture is largely based on Spanish culture. That means your assertion that “The Fuegian community is not a copy of any spanish community” is just a little inaccurate, no? In fact TDF culture is very much a based on every (and any) Spanish culture. It's seemingly acceptable for you in TDF to have a culture based on one from Europe, from Spain, yet the Falkland Islanders' British heritage is somehow unacceptable? Are they not allowed major towns or geographical features named in English? Can they not speak only English? Can most of them not have British surnames? Why not?

And and just to correct a few errors of fact.

No “former inhabitants” of the Falkland Islands have ever been expelled. And if you are referring to a group of persons who came from Buenos Aires in late 1832, then you should know that some of their descendants continue to live on the Falklands today.

Immigration to the Falklands in the past has never been only from carefully chosen countries. I don't know where you get that idea from? Ancestors of the Falkland Islanders went there of their own free will. Just like the ancestors of most Argentines when there of their own free will (and the vast majority of immigrants to Argentina a lot more recently than to the Falklands).

So you want examples of why the Falkland Islanders are unique? Well, after 8 generations of living in the Falklands, for most of that isolated from the rest of the world how could they not be unique? They have their own customs and accent. Their own words. Their way of life is unique. What more do you want. Nobody questions that a rioplatense is unique to Argentina, so why should there be any question over Falkland Island English (any more than Australian, South African or Canadian English)?
101 dab14763 (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 07:43 pm Report abuse
@101 yaghan
“A quick analysis shows that what you use to differentiate between original and derived cultures are: language, genealogy and toponimic names used. Now, the kelper community speaks no language but English,”

How do you know? Some may be fluent in second languages such as Spanish or French.

Falkland Islands English is its own variety of English, as is American English, Canadian English, etc

“individuals have british surnames and descend from British ancestors”

Non British surnames, decade of arrival, country of origin of first immgrant
Pitaluga 1840s Italy
Dettleff 1840s Germany
Anderson 1850s Denmark
Llamosa 1850s South America
Bender 1860s Germany
Hollen 1860s Germany
Rowlands 1860s Sweden
Alazia 1870s France
Clausen 1870s Germany
Pergolis 1870s Italy
Hansen 1880s Sweden or Denmark
Petterson 1890s Sweden
Larsen 1890s Norway
Buse 1890s Germany
Berntsen 1870s Norway
Andreasen 1900s Denmark
Sorensen 1890s Norway
Faria 1900s Azores (Portugal)
Lellman 1900s Germany

All of these have descendants among Falkland Islanders, both among those with the above surnames, where descent has passed through sons, and among many who don't have the above surnames, where descent has passed through daughters

“ (having expelled the former inhabitants”

A lie

”and allowing immigration only from carefully chosen countries).“

A lie

”Major towns and geographical names are in English.”

Non English language names of locations
Settlements
Bombilia House
Camp Verde
Ceritos House
Chartres
Chata House
Dos Lomas House
Estancia House
Mariqueta
Mid Rancho
Orqueta House
Piedra Sola
Port Louis
Port San Carlos
Rincon Grande
Salvador
San Carlos
Top Malo House
Tranquilidad

Rivers
Malo River
San Carlos River
Chartres River
Warrah River

Islands
Staats Island
Beauchene Island
Tyssen Islands

Headlands
Cape Bougainville

Straits
Choiseul Sound

Others
Cantera
Terra Motas
Brasse Mar
Torcida Point
Pioja Point
Laguna Seco
Manada
102 briton (#) Dec 14th, 2010 - 10:03 pm Report abuse
101 yaghan (#)I point out that 1+2+3+4 does not sum up to a transplanted spanish community, as you suggest.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
does not 1+2+3+4=10, ??????????
103 Domingo (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 07:06 am Report abuse
@ 66. The answer is because:

1. England claimed & named them the Falklands Islands in 1690
2. The 1750 Treaty of Madrid nullified the the Catholic Treaty of Tordesillas of 1493 & the Spanish Catholic claim to Port Louis in 1765
3. The British Settlement of Port Edgmont was established in 1765
4. The Spanish Settlement of Puerto Soledad was established in 1767
5. The Spanish agreed Port Edgmont was British in 1771
6. Britain maintained its claim to the whole of the Falklands Islands by declaration in 1774
7. British fishermen, sealers and whalers used the Falklands continuously between 1765-1833 establishing effective control outside of Port Soledad on the Islands
8. Jewett was an American citizen & a wanted criminal by Portugal & the USA after he pirated the Portuguese ship the Carlota & the American ship the Rampart in 1820
9. Jewett's 1820 claim was illegal & ineffective - he had no authority to make the claim, was a wanted criminal at the time of his claim & the claim was ineffective, ignored by the local British sealers, unestablished when his ship the Heroina left in April 1821 & unreported to his BsA employers
11. Britain made a formal diplomatic protest to the BsA government on 19th November 1832 against the decree of 10th June 1832
10. The June 10th 1832 decree by the BsA Unitarian govt. & landing of 6th October for the establishment of a political & military command of the Falklands allowed Britain under the Nootka Sound Convention with Spain to establish further settlements & full sovereignty over the Falklands by Spanish agreement
12.The June 10th decree of 1832 was declared illegal by the legal Federal government of BsA in December 1832
13. Britain exercised its right to sovereignty in January 1833 & requested the BsA garrison to leave which it did under protest
14.The Convention of Settlement ratified by Argentina in 1851 ended the dispute over the Falklands when Argentine Messages to Congress ceased
15. Plus UN Articles 103 & 73 & UN GAR 1514(XV)
104 stick up your junta (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
@ 105

Putting my Argie head on,and playing devils advocate i will counter your argument

Yeah but, no but, yeah but, what it was; right[?], I sat next to Kelly Smith and she like totally copied off me, coz, I told everyone about her snogging Kevin Thomas outside McDonalds, but Mrs Dodson, like TOTALLY busted me for it, and said I was CHEATING, and Oh my God I can't believe she did that! So I ain't got nufin, right?! Ask my bruver, and he'll tell you
105 Argie (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
Well, I am happy to see that, finally, all in here, or almost, decided to talk about history, instead of exchanging expletives. Reading the precedent postings has been a pleasure, albeit I know that we'll never be rowing in the same direction. This doesn't at all mean that we have to be enemies. Only on different sides of the fence and, as all know, the neighbour's turf is greener that one's. Cheers!
106 Juan01 (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 08:30 pm Report abuse
Islanders should read todays' BBC news Peter Preston article:
UK can't afford the Falklands
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601

Time is coming...
No oil... No english falklands.. they are too expensive...
Half millon dollar to defend each person in the island..
Uhhhh that´s expensive.

Ahhh yeah Half millon dollar... to defend from the argentinian catapultas... as some islanders have told here in some forum.
More than 1000 millons each year just waiting.(or wasting)
107 stick up your junta (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
@108

Drop in the ocean dear boy,and worth every penny, glad that some of my taxes are making sure that you Argies cant have them
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322745/Foreign-aid-budget-cost-family-500-Fat-cats-earning-90k.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5592884/Failed-asylum-seekers-cost-73-million-to-house-and-feed.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512754/Britains-benefits-generation-State-handouts-way-life-million.html
108 J.A. Roberts (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Oh here we go again... another Argie bashing one out in all the excitement of it because of a single Guardianista's opinion.
109 Zethee (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12001527

“Former Guardian editor Peter Preston admits he struggles to win over support for his idea to rethink UK policy on the Falklands.”
110 Think (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
You got to respect and believe a man with such an impressive and well assorted library :-)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601

PS:
Please notice that Mr. Preston is mentioning Half a Billion £ as the cost of thefending the Malvinas……
Pretty close to the 700 million £ MoD estimate I mentioned some weeks ago….
Pretty far from the 80 million £ some Brits and settlers like to fantasize about……
111 briton (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
Every nation has its idiots, the truth is very different.
How can a civilised nation like great Britain, hand over an island and its people, to an uncivilised nation like Argentina, a nation that is yellow through and through,
it hides behind everything/and everybody, but come out itself,
the world is waiting for Argentina to do something, but the world will be very very disappointed, as cowards will do nothing but wait on the shoreline like vultures waiting to steal of the dead,, Argentina wont fight for the Falklands, so she tries to con the world into giving it to them,
Argentina may well one day get the Falklands back, by stabbing democracy and freedom in the back, but don’t worry she can live with the shame,, all this bullshit from a traitor, and the argentine people are having an orgasmic fit, , pathetic, degrading, cowards, [if you think this was to harsh]
THEN STOP LISTENING TO FUXXING BULLSHIT.........
either fight for the Falkland, live in peace with the Falklands.
or FUXXINF OFF/////////////////////
112 stick up your junta (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 10:16 pm Report abuse
Please notice that Mr. Preston is mentioning Half a Billion £ as the cost of thefending the Malvinas

Well as you stated Think, all payed for with the Resources stolen from you Argies :-)

Mind you we could make some savings if we run our prisons on Argie lines
ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=31167
113 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601

“we need a bit of political bravery and admit we can no longer fund the islands in the south Atlantic.”

“We could pay out for ever.. or we could say: it is time to make a change.”

Clear enough.
114 stick up your junta (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 10:49 pm Report abuse
We could pay out for ever.. or we could say: it is time to make a change

Savings to be made in other places,best hang on to the Falklands just in case their is oil

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/01/development-international-aid-and-development

HOUSING benefit payments will soar by 15 per cent to £20.8billion over the next year.

The bill will mean the average household pays £800 a year in taxes to subsidise accommodation for the jobless and low-paid, the official forecast showed last night.
115 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 11:00 pm Report abuse
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11998364

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12000741

www.debtbombshell.com/
116 Redhoyt (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 11:08 pm Report abuse
It would be political suicide for any British Party to support withdrawl from the islands. They all know it, and they all know that they woulodn't get elected for at least a generation. So it won't happen. Regardless of cost.

Of course, if there is oil, the the cost ratio reverses!.
117 stick up your junta (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 11:11 pm Report abuse
@117
How much worse if we took up the Argie National sport

Tax evasion is a national sport in Argentina, with over fifty percent on the countries economy operating in what is known as “Black money” meaning cash and never declared to the tax office..

Since the economic collapse of Argentina in December 2001 followed by banks collapsing, the problem for the government’s tax office has increased because of the lack of trust in the nations banking system.
118 briton (#) Dec 15th, 2010 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Calm down briton, calm down, we are not going to ever give up the falklands,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
ok, Im calm, i just dont like idiots like this giving false hope to FOOLS,
Im sorry if i went over the top,,,,,,,,,,,
ok we forgive you, ????????????
119 Zethee (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 12:31 am Report abuse
Think:

He also states that the only reason we want the Aircraft carriers is because of the falklands. He is wrong.
He also states that the base has 1000 people on site, also wrong.
He states that we have two destroyers and patrol boats. Not correct.
He also says that there is no public or government support for keeping the islands over long periods, he's is wrong again.

His numbers are rubbish. And so are yours, You never did explain how you came to the magic number of 500 million.

The Equipment? We would still have those destroyers, aircraft and other equipment that is down there.

Wages? I've not done the numbers but i doubt that 2000 men's wages would ammount to 500 million, But if it did? They would still be getting those wages if they were in the UK.

So, where exactly is this number of 500 million coming from?

And why do you think it would even make a difference to us if you was correct? It wouldn't. And you aren't correct.
120 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 02:18 am Report abuse
Rotted, They would not get elected anyway after all these cuts.
Getting nervous? I told you so. What do you like say all the time?
Get used to it :-)))
121 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 03:22 am Report abuse
@ 105 1 Wrong. French historian Paul Groussac says, not named, did not come close, did not set the vaguest latitude. Also had no authorization from the British Crown to discover or colonize on their behalf. Also the same author admitting the reality and identification of land seen by Davis and Hawkins to the Falklands, the blurred vision is not sufficient to create a title, even imperfect. Remember this because all who claim the British in 1770 and in 1833 they entered by force as a right or title of sovereignty if and eerie “discovery”of Davis. From 1520 to 1586 in numerous maps appear with the names of Samson, the Giants or the Ducks, Some maps call Sansom some maps called a Duck and the other, the Malvinas were discovered long before 1592, possibly had the names by the giant patagones he saw Magellan and penguins in the south, all this long before the appearance of the false name of Falkland.
1767 Spanish governor at Port Soledad.
5- false. The RESTITUTION of the PORT and FORT EGMONT was demanded and granted as COMPENSATION for the INJURY to the BRITISH FLAG. In turn, the British had to leave the island. The British diplomatic defeat, you can see, in the debates hard in the House of Lords and Commons. Find out about what was said by Junius, Burke, Chatham, Manchester etc. schoolwork: Who resigned?
6- false. 1774 british go home. End of the history. 1767-1811 Spanish governors. British silence. 7- false. There were British fishermen and many nationalities. This temporary presence, by no means British sovereignty. 1811-1820 empty islands British silence.
8 and 9 false. Jewett was a privateer. By order of the Government of Buenos Aires took possession of the Malvinas Islands on 6 November 1820. This fact was known in London. Posted by The Times. British silence. 1774-1829 . First protest November 19, 1831 by Decree of June 10, 1829 which designates Governor Vernet. NEARLY TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATER.!!! wow surprise!!! no more space.
122 Redhoyt (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 03:49 am Report abuse
“ ... In turn, the British had to leave the island ...”

Prove it Marvin ... where is that written? It was the Spanish who suffered the diplomatic defeat and you inability to see that, in the face of all the evidence, is ridiculous!

“ ... Jewett was a privateer. By order of the Government of Buenos Aires ....”

False .... prove it. Where were his orders. Something in writing.? Evidence? Have you read the report that was carried to Britain, or the comments of the carrier? No! You should!

I've told you before about school text books and obscure historian's opinions. They have no meaning. Only real evidence will do ... and you have none!

Idiot boy :-)

MoreCrap, you are not worth the effort!
123 Marcos Alejandro (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 06:03 am Report abuse
Rotted, Are you in a bad mood today? Is Mr Preston or the history Lessons by Malvinense 1833, or both, causing that anger?
Remember Mr Peter Preston words:
“we need a bit of political bravery and admit we can no longer fund the islands in the south Atlantic.”
I hope his words bring your blood pressure down a little bit...
Get used to it :-)))))

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601
124 Redhoyt (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 06:14 am Report abuse
On the contrary MoreCrap, I'm in a very good mood. The sun is shining, I've just had an excellent lunch which I'm finishing off with a large glass of red wine and the Falkland Islands are still British. Indeed, I'm feeling mellow.

As for Mr. Preston, anything that keeps reminding the British public that men died to keep the Falkland Islands British is a good thing. It's forgettfullness that's the danger!
125 Kiwisarg (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 08:22 am Report abuse
126 Redhoyt (#)
Hi man !! should be enjoy for to day the sunning day in Uk!! because the Malvinas Islands ARGENTINA are coming back soon! just relax man and enjoy the red wine!! Is it argentinien wine?
126 Redhoyt (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 08:28 am Report abuse
I doubt that they are going anywhere in your lifetime, and I KNOW that you're young!

And who is in the UK where snow and ice are expected today?

And it's a South African actually!
127 WestisBest (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 10:11 am Report abuse
Argentinian wine? Plergh, flabby stuff like Malbec, not likely. Chilean wine OTOH is excellent.
128 stick up your junta (#) Dec 16th, 2010 - 10:38 pm Report abuse
Argentinian wine

You stole the falklands from us,its not fair,pirates english stealing our oil
129 WestisBest (#) Dec 17th, 2010 - 11:29 am Report abuse
@107

“This doesn't at all mean that we have to be enemies. Only on different sides of the fence and, as all know, the neighbour's turf is greener that one's. Cheers!”

Interesting analogy but not sound, Argentina claims our turf as their own rather than just coveting it. Not easy to get along and not be enemies under those circumstances.
The irony of the Falklands dispute is that once you get past principals and national pride sovereignty of the Falklands means very little to people in Argentina and The UK, the only people it affects directly are us, the Falkland Islanders.
130 Kiwisarg (#) Dec 17th, 2010 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
131 WestisBest (#)
You say:
“This Does not mean at all That We Have To Be Enemies. Only on Different sides of the fence and, as all know, the neighbor's turf is greener That one's. Cheers!
”Totally agree with that But I do not totaly agree when you say“ Argentina reivindicaciones Our turf as Their Own Rather Than just coveting it. Not easy to get along and Not Be Enemies under Those Circumstances. ”Because sovereigns Aregentina wants to regain the Malvinas Islands Argentinas. but this is not greed or just coveting “as you say.
When you say ”The irony of the Malvinas dispute Is That Once You get past principals and national pride of the Falklands Sovereignty Means very little to people in Argentina and The UK, the only people it Directly Affects are us, the Falkland Islanders.
” It is wrong! Because Argentina has always said and says real Kelpers will be respected and nurtured just like any Argentine citizen under our flag.
Argentina wants to help all the Kelpers people,please try to undertand that. So the Argentina's wine are very good quality, please try ones and let me know waht do you think? It are better than Chile's wine.

You have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, we hope to soon share some Christmas and New Year in the Falklands as a more Argentine-kelpers and could Islands to set foot againbut in peace!
131 lsolde (#) Dec 17th, 2010 - 11:53 pm Report abuse
Merry Christmas everyone & a Happy New Year
132 Domingo (#) Dec 17th, 2010 - 11:53 pm Report abuse
@123:

1. Malvanese1833, I agree early European discoveries are all very doubtful, but it's a fact that the name Falkland Islands comes from the 1690 English expedition.

5. Restitution of Port Edgmont to the British was agreed by the Spanish in 1771, this is not false.

6. The British did leave a plaque in 1774 declaring their claim, correct?

7. The fishermen demonstrates the Spanish had no control outside of Port Solitude; a fact they often complained about it is reported.

8. & 9. In Jewett's official report of February 1821 to his BsA employers (as held in the Argentine National Archive) no mention of his claim of taking possession of the Islands is made. Also Jewett did pirate the Carlota & Rampart in 1820, these are known facts.

W.r.t. to 11. it does indeed deserve correct thus:

11. Britain made a formal diplomatic protest to the BsA government on 19th November 1829 against the decree of 10th June 1829 and a further formal diplomatic protest on 28th September 1832 against the formal appointment of a commandant by the BsA government on 10th September, 1832, i.e. within 18 days.

My apologies for my error here.

@107, 131, & 132:

I'd still like to think that friendship and cooperation will resolve this dispute happily for all sides and overcome narrow nationalism. Perhaps in future when the AR is satisfied the UN ICJ is unbiased, this could be the right forum for starting the process of resolution by obtaining an advisory opinion!

Still hoping for a happy outcome for all!
133 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 18th, 2010 - 01:49 am Report abuse
Thank you very much Marcos Alejandro.
@ 124 Red, I do not insulted you, relax. Heroin State frigate in Puerto Soledad, November 2, 1820.
Lord, I have the honor to inform you that I have come to this port commissioned by the Supreme Government of the United Provinces of South America to take possession of the islands on behalf of the country to which they belong by Natural Law. In performing this mission wish to proceed with greater fairness and courtesy to all friendly nations, one of the objects of my mission is to prevent the destruction of the sources of resources needed for passing ships, which, forced landfall, arriving at islands, and do so they can stock up with the least expense and inconvenience, since the purpose of you are not in conflict and competition with these institutions and the belief that a personal interview will be of benefit to both, I invite you to visit aboard my ship, where I will be happy to provide accommodation as he pleases, I thank her to himself to be good, as their power, to extend my invitation to any British subject who I find in this vicinity, I have the honor to be Sir, your most attentive and faithful servant.
Jewett, Colonel of the Navy of the United Provinces of South America and commander of the frigate Heroin.
News published in The Times, London. British Silence. Not a single protest.
“Prove it Marvin ... where is that written? It was the Spanish who suffered the diplomatic defeat and you inability to see that, in the face of all the evidence, is ridiculous”
The British diplomatic defeat, you can see, in the debates hard in the House of Lords and Commons. Find out about what was said by Junius, Burke, Chatham, Manchester etc. schoolwork: Who resigned?
This is evidence. The British withdrawal. This is evidence.
Know its history. More information: Hansard, Parliamentary History of England.
@ 134 Domingo, In Spanish maps appear the names of Samson and the Ducks before 1690.
5- Correct, But only Fort and Port Egmont.
134 Domingo (#) Dec 18th, 2010 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
I think it is nowadays agreed that Jewett read a proclamation in November, 1821; but it is also understood that this was not under orders from his BsA employers and that at the time of the proclamation Jewett was a wanted pirate and also was ignored by the people he proclaimed to, and then six months after making his frankly daft proclamation without any practical effect he left the Falklands, returned to BsA and was dismissed from employment.

No government is likely to make policy based on a minor news report in the Times about an odd event. Silence does not constitute agreement when there is no official communication, only an obscure third hand report. Indeed I believe it's true to say the Argentine government was only aware of this proclamation third-hand because of its foreign reporting, rather than any first hand knowledge themselves? As such for both the British and Argentine governments of the day, Jewett's proclamation was of no practical or theoretical significance and not acted upon by either government.

What is clear is that when the BsA government acted through normal diplomatic channels they received the proper diplomatic response from Britain.

Of course all this is superceded by the 1851 ratification by Argentina of the Convention of Settlement and then itself superceded by Articles 103 and 73 of the Un Charter plus UN GAR 1514(XV).
135 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 18th, 2010 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
134@ Domingo 6. The British did leave a plaque in 1774 declaring their claim, correct? . Correct. The French historian says: The attitude clandestine of Lt. Clayton, erecting in Port Egmont material symbols of the alleged British sovereignty, is an arbitrary act and without international significance when it is not followed by any other effect which is in formal opposition to the terms of the Declaration of 1771, the only legal instrument for the two parties interested, this board is belied by the occupation of the islands uninterrupted and unchallenged for 60 years for Spain and his heir Argentina.
Also in 1777, Spain destroyed the symbols left by the British there, they did not protest any of its rights, which is interpreted as a physical abandonment of the British claim.
They agree with this British jurists as: Westlake, Fitzmaurice, Phillimore. Anthony Eden considered wrong and unsustainable British arguments.
7- At present it is difficult to control fishermen furtive, imagine at that time. This does not invalidate our sovereignty.
8- This is belied by the takeover and subsequent publication of the notice in The Times. Argentina had nothing to report anything to the UK on a sovereign act in their own jurisdiction... third, fourth hand is demonstrably the fact existed. British silence.When the United Provinces of Río de la Plata took possession of the islands on November 6, 1820, the United Kingdom did not make any protest. Nor did the December 15, 1823 when he recognized the United Provinces, or when they signed the Treaty of Friendship, Commerce and Navigation of February 2, 1825. There authorities and population on the islands. At this time also had diplomatic channels to complain. He did not. Not one complaint.
The British bases for the forcible occupation of islands in 1833 are discovery and occupation.
Domingo, we both know that this is false.
“Still hoping for a happy outcome for all!” This is my dream.
136 dab14763 (#) Dec 18th, 2010 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
Malvi & Domingo. It does not matter whether Jewett was sent or not. His actions had no legal validity. It does not matter what happened between Spain and the UK, at no time did Spain's claim ever transfer to Argentina. And there was nothing illegal about the UK's settlement at Port Egmont. The French had not established effective control over the whole archipelago, they hadn't even established control over the whole of East Falkland, and the lost any rights as first settlers when they decided to recognise the Spanish claim even though the Spanish claim at the time had no legal basis whatsoever.
137 Malvinense 1833 (#) Dec 18th, 2010 - 07:57 pm Report abuse
But Dab! Assuming it's true what you say: the French had not established effective control over the whole archipelago. Assuming that is truthful, then that can be said of the English who came to be established 2 years later, a small garrison on the small island Saunder (Trinidad) .....and then left.!!!

“at no time did Spain's claim ever transfer to Argentina”
Article 1. His Catholic Majesty recognized as free, sovereign and independent Republic or Argentina Confederation, composed of all the provinces mentioned in the federal Constitution in force, and other territories that rightfully belong or later will we belonged, and using the power it falls under the decree of the Parliament of the Kingdom of December 4, 1836, resignation in every way and forever, by himself and his successors, the sovereignty, rights and actions that corresponded to the territory of that Republic.
“It does not matter whether Jewett was sent or not.” Dab, truth, but because the British gave up their alleged sovereignty in the agreement 1771. The British diplomatic defeat, you can see, in the debates hard in the House of Lords and Commons. Find out about what was said by Junius, Burke, Chatham, Manchester etc. More information: Hansard, Parliamentary History of England.
“Still hoping for a happy outcome for all!” This is my dream.

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