Port of Ushuaia refuses entry of cruise vessels that visited the Falkland Islands
Argentina has banned two cruise ships from calling at Ushuaia in Tierra del Fuego after they visited the Falkland Islands, apparently based on recent provincial legislation, according to reports in the Ushuaia media.
P&O Cruises’ small ship “Adonia” has been refused entry to Ushuaia on Monday and Princes Cruises’ “Star Princess” were also prevented from docking at the port.
A P&O Cruises spokeswoman said: “Following its call at the Falkland Islands on Saturday, February 25, the local port authorities have not permitted Adonia to berth at Ushuaia, Argentina.
“The ship is on an 87-night South America Adventure which departed Southampton on January 13, 2012.”
A spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London said it was in contact with P&O Cruises, and was seeking “urgent clarification'' on the situation through diplomatic channels.
In Ushuaia the media said that decision follows the enforcement of the so called “Gaucho Rivero” provincial bill which impedes the docking of British flagged vessels.
However the president of the Ushuaia Tourism Chamber, Marcelo Lietti called for prudence and said the cruise industry has nothing to do with the Malvinas dispute.
“It’s an issue that must be addressed with utmost care”, said Lietti. “We all want the Malvinas Islands back under Argentine flag but the cruise industry has nothing to do with the Malvinas dispute” and recalled that the cruise industry is one of the main sources of income for the local economy.
Lietti said the bill refers to vessels involved in tasks related to the exploitation of natural resources, and “we consider cruise vessels have nothing to do with that issue”.
Furthermore “we want someone responsible to come up and show his face. All we know is the instruction barring the two cruise vessels came from the Provincial Ports authority”. He added the chamber was holding an urgent meeting.
“If the measure was intended to harm the English and the Falklands, the damage has been inflicted on all the people that were scheduled to work with the two cruises in Ushuaia”, said Lieti.
Last August the Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic Islands Province legislature, after long debate approved a bill banning all permanence, docking, supplies or logistic support to all vessels with the British flag, or convenience flag, which are linked to exploration, drilling or natural resources exploitation in the Malvinas Islands basin, on the Argentine continental platform.
The first of the two-article bill “rejects any colonization or claim actions over the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands, islands which belong to the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic Islands”.
The bill is also known as the Gaucho Rivero bill, in honour of an Argentine gaucho who allegedly flew the Argentine flag in the Falklands until the British landed and took over the Islands, (and since then) in 1833.
Gaucho Rivero has been turned into a legend and Malvinas history hero by the official President Cristina Fernandez administration, although there are other versions as to his true personality including claims he was a murderer and a common rustler.
In 1982 when the Argentine military invasion one of the fist names to be changed was “Puerto Rivero” for Stanley. However when more information about the ‘Gaucho Rivero’ was made public, the military garrison changed the name to Puerto Argentino.
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www.ushuaianoticias.com/
““If the measure was intended to harm the English and the Falklands, the damage has been inflicted on all the people that were scheduled to work with the two cruises in Ushuaia”, said Lieti.” TOO TRUE!
GREAT, CARRY ON YOU MORONS.
I wonder which they would rather see, the Falklands (there are no Malvinas) or some diego country who cannot operate a whelk stall between them?
Marcos…P&O is British but Princess Cruises is based in America.
'Don’t have a crap in Argentina': (to the tune of ‘Don’t cry for me Argentina)
“SEWER SYSTEM IN USHUAIA
Pumping station still not functioning
Almost a year since the technical report on the status of the sewer system of Ushuaia was presented by the Advisory Commission on Coastal Management Plan, the Government and Municipality has still not defined who will be responsible for the repair and maintenance.” Source Ushuaia Noticias.
What a bunch of tossers!
Also... It seems to be a theme of Cristina to praise murderous and wife beaters such as Gaucho Rivero and Sean Penn and yet when innocent people die she seems to keep quiet on the matter.
I remember discussing last year on this same pages precisely this scenario with Kelper Islander1…......
He didn’t ”Think” we would dare to jeopardize our own Cruise Industry.
He was obviously wrong…………
The ”Gaucho Rivero” law is, from today, enforced in Tierra del Fuego, Santa Cruz and Chubut provinces….
It will soon be enforced in Buenos Aires province too.
To make a long story short…….. :
The Cruise companies will very soon have to choose between:
1) Calling 2/3 days in Buenos Aires
+Calling 1 day in Puerto Madryn
+Calling 1 day in Ushuahia
Or
2) Calling ½ day in Puerto Stanley (Where 30 to 40% of the calls have to be cancelled anyway because of adverse weather conditions)
I know precisely which business option I would choose if I was Marketing Director of any of those Cruise Companies…………..
With your demonstrable thinking ability, Think, I think you would be lucky to be one of the dockers who couldn't think what was best for Ushaia.
What do you think, Think. :o)
Well only a complete muppet would cut off their nose to spite their face. Notice the desperate back peddling from the president of the Ushuaia Tourism Chamber.
And only a complete muppet would be unaware that any US company or any of its foreign subsidiaries cannot participate in a foreign boycott, since it contravenes US anti-boycott legislation. Noncompliance can include large fines or exclusion from trading.
So whatever the wishes of Argentina, those Marketing Directors won't be taking action that could get them time in a federal facility.
Don't take my word for it, DYOR.
Cue some lying git making personal attacks and using smear and innuendo to cover up gross muppetry.
Perhaps you need to revisit your lessons in marketing?
Two ship loads of people who have just seen the truth of the peaceful, economically prosperous, beautiful Falkland Islands and their British heritage, now have their holiday disrupted by belligerent, bullying Argentina. Will they go away saying “well our holiday was spoilt but we understand the Argentinians reasons”? Or “what a bunch of idiots those Argies are with their untrue stories about the islands and their history and inhabitants”.
For many of the tourists the Falklands is a key point of their holiday - if I was the Marketing Director of the Cruise Companies I would be saying “Hello Punta Arenas, here are our dollars”.
By the way, the (murderer) Gaucho Rivero law seems to apply only to military and oil related vessels, so definitely a shot in the foot for Argentina.
The 'Gaucho Rivero Bill'? Are you all insane?
So what are the payoffs here?
It might hurt us (a bit).
It won't get you any closer to sovereignty over the islands.
You end up looking even more like crazed bullies, and powerless bullies when it becomes clear that this is another strategy that makes you feel great for a short while and doesn't get you anywhere. It smacks of desperation to me.
That's assuming that you aren't a tourism operator in Ushuaia, or an Argentine who was planning to get off the boat.
How does this bill work anyway? Do you ban ships because they might be going to call somewhere at some point in the future? Do you get them to sign something to promise not to come here after BA?
(14) Beef
The “last time”, as you call it, was loooong time ago and just a rehearsal.
This one seems to be the real thing......
Fasten your seatbelts....
The only think i am strapped in for is news of the farm-in with RKH :-)
Argentina is effectively now doing an economic blockade on its own economy, genius! Your economy is in the sewer and you are blocking one of the main sources of business in the local area!
At least there is one person in the local area with a brain (Chamber of Tourism) but alas Argentina commits another ridiculous and hostile act that has another damaging effect on its economy.
And when it couldn't get any dafter the Gaucho Bill doesn't even support what they are doing.......
Round of applause for Cristina.
I say it is more likley that cruise companies will drop Argentina rather than the FI from their schedules (if they have to make this choice).
I give odds of 10/1
Problem is that it is unlikley that any Argie even has a deposit to stump up.
However, does this mean we can finally repatriate the Argentinian war dead? Like come-on it's about time we sent them back... maybe on one final cruise.
Result - the threat of “problemos” died quickly.
After all nothing much in BA-Madryn-Ushuaia that cannot be covered by the alternative route is there?
This way the US lines also then comply with US Law, and somehow I dont see a British Cruise Company dropping FI for Arg.
We will see as you say. More like a pair of shot feet to me though!
As for the smaller Expedition Ships - dont forget they too are hacked off with being ripped off in increasing annual amounts by corrupt officials in Ushuaia - and are waiting for the upcoming port improvements etc in Puerto Williams,Punta Arenas and new north-south airlinks to Stanley - then Ush. will no longer have a virtual monopoly.
Still with all the negative press in Arg and rest of S America after the Timmerman fantasy fiasco in N York and her own failed big speech - someone needs a headline I guess - even if the cost is a brace of shot feet!
No BA.
No Puerto Madryn.
No Ushuaia.
Never mind.
Quite liked to have visited BA though as have never been to a third world capital city.
Ohhhh yeahhhh……………..
RKH …………............................ I had almost forgotten them!
Not long for RKH´s long overdue, disappointing report.
Not long for BOR´s first “Duster” announcement .
Exciting times ahead…........... Indeed.
(25) Islander1
We will see.....................
Feel free to clear that up for me Think ;-):
Chile must be excited by these developments.
Thanks for that Beef.
By coincidence I read an article in the Sunday Times about parts of Africa that are developing almost as fast as China. I seem to remember that Ghana and Ethiopia were featured and understand that Uganda has also made great advances in recent years.
Anyways it's a shame on the government. We on the MPF argued against it at the beginning as too extreme for the city. We proposed incentives for ships not going to the Islands, but well, it was a situation not even opposition could refuse.
Tierra del Fuego has an extremely big public sector. Which can not be fired because of Constitution. Thanks mainly to Colazo's Megapase. So now we are in a situation were we desperately need Nation's money to pay for salaries. It's a situation we dislike here but law is law and it has to be respected. And to get that money, we need to be even more nationalist than CFK herself. And any candidate, of any party, even raised in another country would do the same, it's harsh realpolitik. Nation gives us more than a cruise, or two, or ten or 30.
@33
Puerto Williams is the same size Stanley but most of the people are from the military. They lack any infraestructure for taking our place. And the will to move many people to the south. Fact is today's tourism to Williams is like a bonus track for visiting Ushuaia. You visit Ushuaia for a week and expend one day in Williams.
Planning on entering the Stanley marathon for my next non-ordinary holiday but need to do some training :-o
1) they are attempting to destroy their own tourist industry in the vain attempt to somehow “hurt” the islanders.
2) they officially name the action after “Gaucho Rivero”, a man whose very existence torpedoes their delusional mythology surrounding the “expulsion” in 1833
3) they make this guy a frikkin national hero for killing five other argentine settlers (again, still mysteriously there 8 months after being “expelled”) before selling out his gang to get a reduced sentence.
still i guess after argentina's hilariously failed attempt to scream for pity at the UN, get neighbors to actually blockade the islanders, and get help from dictators, such delusional and idiotic actions are to be expected from such a worthless, brainwashed and crumbling third world nation
Meanwhile, the Adonia is on its way to Puntas Arenas. Not limited by fuel considerations, Adonia and Star Princess continue their cruises. But argie “authorities” have made themselves liable to massive compensation claims. Cruises are nearly always taken by people with loads of money. And loads of money to sue the cruise lines and argie “authorities”. Has Ushuaia got loads of money?
As others have suggested, argieland should now look to see NO cruise ships. ANYWHERE! Good job, girls!
Always nice with a local correspondent giving the right perspective...
One question.....
In another thread an anglo poster called Frank (the yank) said that the bust of Vito Dumas that used to be at the Club de Yates has been stolen.
Is this true?
40% of cruise liners cancel their Stanley call on account of weather? I know inflation is extreme in RG land but I doubt if even 4% miss Stanley and only do the outer islands which is what the punters really want to see.......
Yes you do “BigFatDaddy” :-)
“British diplomats in Argentina are urgently seeking to clarify the circumstances surrounding this incident, and we are in contact with the company concerned.”
A national holiday in Argentina has delayed any further information, sorry.
DON'T STOP THE CARNIVAL!
Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.
I think the Stanley folk were saying the local tourism got about £1mil off a cruise, maybe it's too high but the more cruises they turn away, and it's sure going to bite. I'm personally in favour of this Gaucho-grill Law, it's so hilarious and I want to see where this rabbit hole goes.
THAT SAID, this has really vented the spleen out of even the “level-headed posters” here. “diego country”, “Ushuaia has nothing”, “sewer systems” “gun and foot”, “worthless/brainwashed”, its trully brought everyone's colors out . I fail to grasp why this news elicits such acrid sentiments, when all leavel headed people can analyze it and conclude it is puerile populist drivel that only may end up hurting Argentina's relations with the rest of the world.
Eventually, this will end, rationality will have to prevail and the last six months will be undone for both the benefits of Argentina and the islanders. HOWEVER, I still want no relationships with the islanders, EVER. They should be banned from any access to Argentina (except life or death emergency of some sort). And therwise, leave them alone.
@ Yes, they should be repatriated at our expense. And that's it.
No more Falklands and no more islanders after that. I'll celebrate that day!
@56 Hooray, when are you coming to get them?
Look at Frank and Elaine comments... they are acting a bit like CFK's cronies now. I guess testosterone is infectious. Sad.
The fact is, you're upset because this is an example of how petty your country is. But I personally find you and your country hilarious. hahahHAhahaha *prod prod*
To repatriate... 'to return or send back to their native country'
So at last Tobias agrees that the Falklands aren't argentine.
Bonzer...
As far as I remember it's still there. Truth is that as I live there I don't go all the time seeing the small monuments. Anyway, I will check as soon as I go near there.
@42
What envy does, doesn't it? You are right, we lack that bothering 24/7 wind, we lack that boring repeated landscape. We have to avoid competition with you. We only have our exhuberant forests. Our prominent mountains. Our ski centers. Our famous lighthouse. Our glaciar. Our campings. Our lakes. Our landscape. Our rivers. Our hotels. Our trekking tours. Our train. Our National Park. Our Playa Larga. Our Isla de los Lobos. Our Catamaranes. Our Harberton. Our helicopter rides. And many more. Way more.
You only beat us in penguins, small islands and wind. Maybe sunlight too depending the day of the year. When all what I mentioned dissapears, then we have nothing.
www.diarioregistrado.com/sociedad/58105-independencia-kelper-no-existe.html
“People go to see the Falklands and Chile”... That's what you have just said, I have a friend who works directly in the cruise industry (travel agent). People want to see the NATURE. That includes the nature in the Falklands, in Estados Island, along the coast of Tierra del Fuego, and on the Chilean side.
And Ushuaia is KEY not for the city so much, but because people want to take pictures in the 'southernmost' city in the world. Stop looking like idiots making comments are clearly wafting out of raw skin.
I love when people get their facts wrong. Ushuaia as all of TDF has an extremely young population. Families tend to have 3 or 4 children. I won't put my money at half but at least 40% of us here are Fueguians. Even if most are first generation. At my class, of 30, 24 were born here. That should give you a hint. And that was 20 years ago.
And you just admitted Ushuaia has nothing. The people there rely on the income and trade from cruise ships. What happens when the cruise companies decide not to go there?
The turks do it for our war dead. unless the Argetine government and more importantly the families of the fallen want it.
been there it's a lovely spot poor bastards didn't have a choice let them rest in peace.
The bust went when they did up the road down there in about 2009... maybe it has since been found.. it would be good if it has.
That would ruin the cruise.
No bonzer. I can't agree to what I have never believed. However, your mindless prejudice proves that like GreekYoghurt, you are a racist towards Argentines. Good to know.
Elaine, Ushuaia has “somethings”. People need to stretch their legs, be with other people, drink a cup of coffee or some other food besides cruise fair, get off the ship. Take pictures at the end of RN3. Get over yourself your comments were reactionary, I called you and others on it, admit it. I still don't know what so many people are so visceral at this news that they are laxing their standards of conduct. And do you think there is no nature outside “Ushuaia” to trek to?
Your comments alongside others were silly, that's all.
Claiming I'm a racist when not only did you folks genocide your natives but your political class tried to genocide the european jews too, turns your argument into a bit of a farce.
@70 I agree, leave them where they are and at least they rest in freedom. Just wanted to see what the Argies thought.
That would suggest there isn't much to do around town... :)
Puerto Williams could be on true geographical terms, but its nowhere close in being a city yet, much less a major port of call. As a good “anglosaxon” you would know that good slogans are better than the real thing “World series” for national sporting finals, “we invented football” for a sport that has existed in some shape or form for millenia ;)
Punta Arenas is a couple degrees latitude further north. So you should put your maps of South America with the “N” arrow going up the page.
Unless your next argument will be “Punta Arenas has humans”, Ushuaia “Argfags”, which of course is still a lie and does nothing to better your racist reputation. Though your last post even did a better job.
You are a racist my friend.
Thanks pibe……
Just another lie from Frank the Yank……. As usual…..
Bitte schreiben Sie ja die Sprache der Bevölkerung, die du bewunderst gut!
However, I don't fear Argies and the curious self-deprecating things they do, I find them dreadfully funny.
We invented the rules for football and created the first club league. I don't think we claimed to have invented kicking a spherical object around. Besides, football is a terrible game for ladies and poor people, rugger is much better.
... and yes, we invented rugby (and baseball)
Some gas revenues. Some fishing. And lastly some factories. People who work there earns insanely compared to others, almost twice. And that money is spent and so business is doing great right now.
What will happen? Maybe 1.000 people. 2.000 at most will loose their jobs. I would worry if Brazilians stopped coming in winter. That would be a crappy situation.
@71
The Ski resorts Frank. And the mountains right in front of you. And the landscape. Punta Arenas looses there. They are an important port in the South. And they get people who want to go to Paine Towers. But there, in Punta Arenas it self, they don't go after tourism as much as they do with commerce, and they don't have that much to see that can't be seen in any Patagonian city from Bariloche or Puerto Montt to the South.
@72
Ask that to the 150.000(aprox) people who come for that every year. And that's not counting people who come in winter for skiing and that.
I call you racist based on a whole month of observing your comments. I don't take that lightly. Why would you have said “spanish unDermenschen, italian outkasts, and german ODESSA” otherwise (when you know no one will believe that, Argentina's immigration being far older than either the world wars or the mass Spanish migration).
In fact, it was the WEALTHIER peoples that tended to migrate to Argentina, wealthier Irish, Brits, Italians (which is why unlike in the USA Argentina has not just southern italians but central and northern ones who werent as eager to migrate), French, Russians, etc... because the boat tickets were far more expensive than a clipper to the US east coast.
And as for the Jews, Buenos Aires has Kosher McDonalds, tolerant London, nope.
Why bring up history again? Then you get mad when we bring up British history of killing and persecution (mainly to your own people).
Do we really have a Kosher Mc Donalds in BUE?
Didn´t know!
Where?
Geeeee.. You learn something everyday.
Look, you probably have your own view of Argentina being full of all these happy people living under Peronism, and that's fine. I don't intend on breaking the spell on your subjective experience. But denying the ODESSA ratlines is something else.
I didn't bring up history.. you called mistakenly called me a racist without actually knowing what the term means. I simply defended myself using subcultural cues that you understand.
If all the wealthier people emigrated to Argentina, then why are you all so darned poor, and the FIslanders so very very rich?
BFD is my alter ego. Come on Private Pile what's yours?
Finishing time at Berlin?
“Eight years ago I made a joke about the islands in an article for this paper. I soon wished I hadn't
As Guardian science correspondent, I was invited by the British Antarctic Survey to visit one of its research bases, a gruelling journey that involves transit through Port Stanley. In a preview piece I joked that ”by the time you read this, home will be a shack in a desolate, godforsaken land. Then I will leave the Falkland Islands for Antarctica.“
Public opinion eventually dictated that, while the rest of the party enjoyed dinner at the governor's house, I was dragged on to the radio to apologise.
Officially, the reason for the outrage was that my criticism could damage tourism”
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/shortcuts/2012/feb/12/offended-falkland-islands
You say:
“This measure should be extended to all Argentine ports and Mercosur members”
I say:
That has been our objective all along............
Hope Brazil wants to play ball....
You say:
That has been our objective all along............
Hope Brazil wants to play ball....
Brazil says:
Okay
Now what? No cruise ships?
Yes you need to do some training BFD, you run like an old lady :-)
Berlin update:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1UvxxYIv3U
''I'll celebrate that day!''
Not as much as we will pal. Did any of us ever say we wanted access to Argentina?
Yes, at the Abasto and not at Once like I thought.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vMNUvoaXBU
Ironic as well that it was originally a penal colony.
We've seen it all before.
Franco cut Spain off from Gibraltar for 42 years. The Gibraltarians were pissed off when the border reopened. Nothing changed. Apart from the Gibraltarians becoming even more British.
Argentina is like the medieval knight in Monty Pythons Search for the Holly Grail, who fights an enormous rabbit, only to be defeated by it. When you compare the Falklands population of 3,500 with Argentina's 40 million, all you can do is laugh. 40 MILLION v 3,500 and the 3,500 win every time.
Nazi's never learn. The only good Nazi is a dead one. And soon you guys are going to fall into that trap.
I dont think anyone realised that they are the bully boys of South America with child like politics. How can anyone treat this country seriously?
It's ironic that the British built Argentina, helped free Argentina, helped settle Argentina and after 1982 helped free Argentina.
I am an academic and my research has discovered that the British claimed the United Provinces in 1806, this claim (unlike the United Provinces claim on the Falklands - dropped in 1850), has NEVER been dropped.
I can provide the full text of the claim and the supporting documentation that proves beyond ANY reasonable doubt, that the UK OWNS Argentina.
Your insults are meaningless considering I will be running to the bank with that lovely FI oil that your gvt decided they didn't want a piece off. More for me and it looks like history is repeating itself with the potential for less cruise ships to call by Argentina from now on, more income for FKL £££££££££££££££££
Just like Titerman in the UN Argentina continues to embarrass itself and wallow in self-pity.
I feel for those poor Argentines who have had good money taken away from them by some lazy official. They could have earned some US dollars and stored it away or got it out of Argentina to saver for their children or retirement.
I guess Argentines officials don't really care about Argentine people.
I think maybe the UK should seek sanctions against Argentina via the UN/EU if it continues to economically bully the islanders.
Not to mention this is simply yet another diplomatic mistake for Argentina, you can't seek the high ground whilst living in the gutter.
Berger, how's it cooking? It's a shame that dispite being anglo- Argentine all you do on here is post insults and hate monger against your mother country. I hope you realise that most of the Argentine fanatics posting here also hate Anglo-Argentines.
It is a shame because the British helped built Argentina, the British helped settle Argentina and the British helped free Argentina. But a country, that should be one of your closest partner has now been turned into your constant enemy. It's sad. Very sad.
That Argentines are taught to hate the British, hate the Falklands, call the people who live there pirates and spend half of their lives in a constant state of angst and semi depression contemplating taking the Falkland Islands over by threats, insults, economic terrorism and military posturing.
This is not the actions of a free trade loving, G20 nation. It's the attitude of a dysfunctional rouge state. The West does not want nations like Argentina destroying trade links.
The free world does not look on the nationalist, socialist, corporatist (the THREE pillars of Fascism and Nazism) of Argentine Peronism as being productive to the health of the region, trade links or peace.
Argentina is looked on the same way many Western nations see Syria.
I feel sorry for the ordinary Argentines, the ones who have figured all the Malvinas bullshit out for what it is, a distraction from the failing policies of the CFK government. While the Argentine government spends more and more time badgering the region into supporting its groundless claims on a neighboring territory, the Argentine government is looking increasingly incompetent and out of its depth in international politics. Argentine government looks like a 2 year old playing in a sandpit unsupervised. With one of the highest inflation rates in the world and the highest unemployment in the G20, all the Argentine government can say is “forget the economy, it's the Malvinas stupido”.
Adios Argentina.
Mr Beef, money doesn't buy everything as you know very well.
“Two eggs, sir?” the lady said. “I'm afraid that won't be possible. We are down to one egg apiece now.”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16980747
1, take it to the ICJ
or
2, act like children,
Number [2] seems to be the state of play,
But interestingly the argie bloggers sing at this event, shame then the people that will lose wages and business, may not think the same,
but alas the ICJ sits awaiting for your call, so when you children get fed up with shooting yourselves in the foot, and cutting of your nose to spite your face, [please] give them a call,
[You know it makes sense]
After all, who suffers the most,
Loving the wait for farm-in and cpr. Like Christmas :-)
The bust vanished when they were doing the roadworks.. no one knew where it had gone... maybe it has reappeared... maybe some one found it wasn't really bronze after all... that would be good.
dickhead.....
We eat Penguin eggs here, not second rate infected food from Latin America.
Keep your eggs, the way your economy is going, your going to need every one of them.
Lets hope you don't die after eating them.
105 anti-fascist2
Yes it's about time all their dead Nazi scum were dug up and shipped back!
Fascists don't comprehend free trade. Or free anything for that matter. All they can understand is saluting flags and crying over the lost wars of aggression!
No. You failed. Ushuaia cames from the Yaghan name for the place. Ush (to the west) and waia (bay). In Yaghan you spell it Ushwaia, but becouse of Spanish pronunciation it's spelled Ushuaia.
The British were at first for Missionary and Scientific duty. No formal town was founded and the Anglican mission near Ushuaia existed in what's now called Mision Alta and Mision Baja. The city itself, founded by Argentines, is on the other side of Encerrada Bay, the foundation point being almost 2km from there.
She knows that the cruise companies wont be particularly bothered at cutting out the Falklands from their itineraries and of course by doing so they will have access to Argentine ports so she won't be antagonising the business communites in places like Ushuaia.
She is playing a cunning hand and she waits. She waits for that oil to come out of the ground because she knows that popular nationalist sentiment thru the whole of south america might suddenly dictate events.
I like this lady.
the British named it - i never said what language it was in.
the Brits were there in 1833 (year ring a bell - think this was when you first invaded the Falklands) - Argentina turned up in 1873 - 40 years later. This time however we let you have it (we didnt want tears from you) 1873 was sometime after you booted the indigenous people out of their homeland to found your dictatorship.
BTW there is a case growing to say that the UK still owns Argentina. I think we need to take that one to the UN. you can leave tomorrow if you like and go back to spain. We'll ask the Falkland Islanders to form a new government in BA to look after British interests.
But anyway doing this is not the way. I would put an special tax on cruise companies stopping at the Islands without an official Argentine permission. And that's it. Or they ask for permission or they pay. It's easier and less dramatic.
I bet you have here pictures all over your bedroom wall Kichener draped in the Argentina flag. Too stupid to realise that nationalism is used to sucker people, rather than serve them.
If every nation on earth suffered from the nationalism, we could all kill each other tomorrow.
You can judge a person intelligence by their ability to stand back and see the other side. Sadly Argentina is full of fools. As was German in 1939. As was Italy under Peron's hero Mussolini. Spain under Franco. Portugal under Salazar.
Although I can understand why your country needs the money as it once more has crumbled economically.
Not necesarely. No one said the permission would be either expensive or difficult to get. I would make it free and easy to get.
And regarding Ushuaia, we will have to disagree. The Yaghan knew this area as Ushwaia at least since the British explorers. The fact that it was those exploreres who made the name know to the world doesn't get the to claim they named it. It was already named.
Dreyfuss, It's a shame that all you people can do on here is post insults and hate monger.
It is a shame because the British helped built Argentina, the British helped settle Argentina and the British helped free Argentina. But a country, that should be one of your closest partner has now been turned into your constant enemy. It's sad. Very sad.
That Argentines are taught to hate the British, hate the Falklands, call the people who live there pirates and spend half of their lives in a constant state of angst and semi depression contemplating taking the Falkland Islands over by threats, insults, economic terrorism and military posturing.
This is not the actions of a free trade loving, G20 nation. It's the attitude of a dysfunctional rouge state. The West does not want nations like Argentina destroying trade links.The free world does not look on the nationalist, socialist, corporatist (the THREE pillars of Fascism and Nazism) of Argentine Peronism as being productive to the health of the region, trade links or peace.Argentina is looked on the same way many Western nations see Syria.
I feel sorry for the ordinary Argentines, the ones who have figured all the Malvinas bullshit out for what it is, a distraction from the failing policies of the CFK government. While the Argentine government spends more and more time badgering the region into supporting its groundless claims on a neighboring territory, the Argentine government is looking increasingly incompetent and out of its depth in international politics. Argentine government looks like a 2 year old playing in a sandpit unsupervised.
With one of the highest inflation rates in the world and the highest unemployment in the G20, all the Argentine government can say is “forget the economy, it's the Malvinas stupido”
Its a shame that the antics of your fascist government reflects badly on your entire population but you've sat back and voted this cretin into power so I guess you get tarred with the same brush.
You do realise that to come back to basics you will never get the islands by force or bullying don't you? Your governments antics over the last 35 years put paid to any chance you ever had of owning this piece of land that was never yours.
The more you bleat on about it and take your claims all around the world the more discredited you become.
Eventually you'll have to invade again and we all know the outcome of that.
Here in the UK this issue is now a non story. It never features on our TV, fills about one square inch of our newspapers and no one over here gives too hoots about the issue. We all know that you will never own the Falklands.
Philippe
The policy is an utter failure for the real world, but it has really pissed off the people here. The level of insulting of Argentina has reached unprecedented levels here.
No it wont. The rest of South America cant stand Argentina. You're a naive nation to think that Brazil, Chile or Uruguay do anything but utter words to placate you to stop your bullying.
also can you not fight your own battles? why do you need Brazil and Uruguay to fight for you? It just makes you look weak and unable to stand on your own two corrupt feet.
Other than a minority in BA no one gives a toss about the FI issue. I would imagine that the majority of your countrymen aren't all that bothered about the issue either.
But back to my point, it is obvious to anyone with a brain that a clipper to Buenos Aires would be far more expensive than one to New York. Therefore (specially in the 1850-1890s period), it was not the “yearning masses” that left to Argentina, it was Irish, Germans, Spanish, French, and Italians which had money to buy land... only after 1890 did more of the “working” migrants begin to arrive, and that didn't begin in earnest until about 1915 and lasted to about 1940.
What does that have to do with current economics? I was just refuting your racist “refuse” of Europe comment. Of course, all people are equal, unlike the prevailining wisdom here to label argentines as sub-human... :)
You all can be racist, I'll just point it out.
Christina clever? -
So Clever she threatend Lan - and they told her No - they will not stop flights to the Islands themselves.
So clever She has got her Mercosur partners to ban FI flagged ships- her partners promptly reminded FI ships that as they are on the UK registry as well they can fly the Brit red ensign and come in as normal.
So clever she imposed decree 261 to try and close the Straits of Magellan to vessels operating with the Islands - at least 6 have passed through with no problems - the latest just this weekend!
So clever she sent Timerman to the UN - with a lot of fantasy pictures - look what happened!
Are you still sure she is clever?
falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/argentinas-heroes/
I hope eventually all this will pass, and people can freely associate. I personally don't want any business between Argentina and the islands, but totaly oppose preventing others from doing so.
Business is the answer. Will the companies risk loosing profit from Argentina because of their moral and ethics? Some will, but it's certain some more will not. After all, it's just business.
Well, I will 100 times and more live under this particular feature of democracy than under our previous dictatorships. It's a occupational hazard from it. If other people vote something you dislike you have to live with it. Try to convince others of your view. It's certain people vote for a reason. Everybody has a motivation.
Some believe you are right, some believe that the passive stance didn't achieve nothing. You could call that the government is trying new strategies, and honestly, most of the people lost faith in the passive and cooperative approach.
And don't dare to call it our government. We didn't elect it. And most importantly we didn't decide to invade.
We won't invade again. As long as we are a democracy nobody will risk. It's almost political suicide even proposing of increase of the size of the armed forces.
Good for you. Here it appears on the news, we comment on what happened. And back to life. Some days it happen stuff like a discourse. And back to normal life.
It's good knowledge is not uniform and the same in every person. Until one of the countries drops the towel the issue won't be settled. It's a matter of who does first. History will eventually tell who will be the owner in a future. Much can happen in 100 years or more.
I'm sorry but some of you have a very inflated view of yourselves. Just as I admit the UK is a bigger power than Argentina and my country should behave accordingly, the islanders need to accept Argentina needs them for nothing, not because they are not worthy people, but simple demographics: 3000 vs 40 million. It's common sense, and those business (including cruises) who make money in Argentina have that in consideration as well.
We should insist on talking, talking and talking and demonstrate we wish to have a good relationship with the islands...I think this does not help..
Its better to focus on other things: I keep hearing that there are several Chilean towns who are asking for self-determination, and the city of Tarija in Bolivia (oil rich), has for a long time wished for self-determination too. There is an area in southern Paraguay populated by ranchers that wishes to perhaps change sovereignty too in order to benefit from AFTOSA protection ranching.
We should be tying to get those areas under our sovereignty by fighting for their self-determination, not forcing those who do not show the wish to do so.
When Chagosian people is allowed to go back to their home I will drop the claim.And will go promoting other people to do so. Rules are that way. Or we all go for self-determination or we don't care. They can't say “SELF DETERMINATION” and not allow Chagossians back in Diego Garcia. They have as much history as Islanders.
Let see,elaine have this concept.
Let see some other people impressions..
Our trip to Antarctica ended in Ushuaia - and this place was much better than the TV show and the shower gel (although I really still enjoy that!), but being off the ship after so many days aboard is something special.
So I do hope, you will enjoy my little virtual tour through a city at the end of the world!!!!!!!!!
Read more: members.virtualtourist.com/m/309de/176aa6/#ixzz1ndp4mABy
lakes,lakes,lakes!
While in Tierra del Fuego, make sure to visit the National Park and some of the beautiful lakes in the surrounding of Ushuaia. Here are two examples of where to go:
To the lake Roca: located to 20 kilometers to the west of Ushuaia by the national route #3 in the National Park Tierra del Fuego. The lake drains through the river Lapataia and both offer very good possibilities for the fishing. If you cross the bridge on the river and you continue the road, you arrive to the lagoon Negra, a mirror of very dark waters on a peat place of mosses.
To the lake Fagnano: toward the northeast by the national route #3. When arriving to the pass Garibaldi, it is obtained one of the best panoramic views on this lake and its neighbor, the lake Escondido, where the petrel inhabits
Read more: members.virtualtourist.com/m/p/m/bb3a0/#ixzz1ndpJNvGA
Too bad you do not like anything Argentinian,elaine!
Because I just LOVE IT!!
They were never on the C24's list as they were a part of Mauritius in 1946. Mauritius sold the islands to Britain in 1966. Britain paid compensation to the Islanders via Mauritius, but that Government kept it. Something like that.
The Chagos Islanders, all 1,700 of them have so far received extra compensation of 5 million dollars, in cash or land. Some of them want more. Some of them want to right to settle in the UK. Only some of them want to go back to the coconut plantations, where they'd last about a week.
Haven't heard them say anything about self-determination though !
I know nothing of the Chagosians. If they were a tribe subjugated to British rule, woop dee doo for the news. The British oprossed many people in history, as did the Spanish, the French, the Dutch, the Germans, the Italians. Europeans for 90% of their history were dictatorial opressors.
That does not me we should be. Look, as much as I dislike saying this, the other side (which to me is not the pro-Falklands side, it's the racist anti-Argentina crowd), has a point. Most people in the Americas arefrom somewhere else. If what counts is who was where first, then we should be leaving Argentina.
It just doesn't work that way, what counts is who is there now... and honestly, who has the bigger guns. If Argentina ultimately wants to take the islands back, it should take a FAR longer strategy: get the economy to grow for 30 years, have a solid currency, drop poverty in half. Then we will have the budget to drive the British away. But then we would be no better than the British or the other Europeans were were 100 years ago.
For Self-Determination I mean that they were asked in the 70's if they wanted to leave so USA could have a base. By all records it was forced.
Now in the 2000s, the Chagossian went to British High court to get the right of returning to the Islands. They won, but the government appealed. In 2008 the House of Lords voted in favor of the British government, denying them the right of return.
Furthermore, a cable leak claims that the government wanted to create a Maritime reserve to prevent them for ever returning.
And that 5 million were given to Mauritius to resettle them. Most people didn't see more than 3000 pounds per capita. Not much for loosing your home.
@141
The Chagossian are descendants of XVIII century slaves brought by the French to the Islands. They remained there and became the main population. They were deported in the 70s from Diego Garcia so they could have their base.
No it's not. The European people who came to America(XIX Century) were invited by the Mestizos already here. To have heritage from somewhere else why you also have local heritage and be called you are not from here is your roots being denied. Most of Americans have some Native blood.
I'm totally agree with you, except from guns. I believe we will get them in the future. It took more than 2000 years for Europe to be where they are. Given time we will develop. And when UK is weak, and it will because no country is strong forever, then we will peacefully take them back. And that would be it.
3000 GBP in Mauritius back then was good money. It was negotiated. They accepted. Only later did they decide it was not enough. Not good at sticking to a deal apparently. Now tell me, the case has been at the Hague for 7 years - how's it going ??
I'll leave the rest of your idiocy to others :-)
1- And how did you come to the conclusion that I’m Anglo-Argentinian?
2- Being Anglo-Saxon (as you like to claim) didn’t stop you to fight against Germany in WWII. Did you liar?
3- “It is a shame because the British helped built Argentina, the British helped settle Argentina and the British helped free Argentina”
Ha ha this is good especially in 1806 and 1807 perhaps? Come I’m sure that all here will love to hear yours fantastic tales. But please don’t start with that one about the railways its too shitty.
Sure you have similar stories about how you have helped to build the whole world. Don’t you?
Brazil by stealing their rubber seeds to bring down Brazilian more exported commodity, China and your 2 opium wars, India... The list of your contributions to build nations is very long ha ha.
Well may be Argentinians would love to return you the favour if you give them a good excuse.
And Do you like to hear about how Pakistan has helped to build Britain?
May be them will invade your little island in the north in the near future a replace your kebab shops for choripan and barbecue stuff. Who knows? Spanish is not so bad after you have a sound knowledge of this language.
May be you need to see the film “This Is England” to have a picture of your dysfunctional society and have a clue about how its in the verge of disintegration.
Keep going with your lies they are an inspiration to remember why Britons have never to be trusted.
@Islander1
Money mate, don’t you get it?
The profitable rout of South America will become not economic viable so doesn’t care who owns the lines money talks and will drop the Islands faster than you can think.
#144 - You talk of Britain's issue with Pakistanis in their country, but if you're being honest, wouldn't you rather Pakistanis than Nazi war criminals? And I dread to think how horrifying a film entitled “This Is Argentina” would be.
Also, I'd guess it was the Falklands War being referred to in point 3 when it says “freed Argentina”. Remember, if your moron leader hadn't been destroyed by the British, you'd still be licking his boots and sending your children to be disappeared.
Blocking access to a Bermuda ship is desperate(not to mention retarded). Perhaps Argentina would like to ban any ship flying the Hawaii state flag too, since they still have the Union Jack on theirs and that must mean they are evil colonialist pirates!
Pedro! Get those Hawaiians! They're trying to steal our most valuable resource... hot air.
“I don't believe I've ever read that the Chagos people ever claimed self-determination”
Lorton Lorton your never stop amazing me, what self determination? that's their homeland! British government's steadfastness is preventing the return of the Chagossians to their islands.
Brits hide behind “the self determination” like little girls behind their mothers skirts.
“Like the Falklanders, the Chagossians were approximately two thousand in number. Unlike the Falklanders, they were dark skinned and not of British ancestry- they were the descendants of the African slaves and Indian workers who had been brought to the islands in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to labour on the coconut and copra plantations; and unlike the Falklanders, the perceived strategic interest of the British state lay not in keeping them in their homes but in expelling them from their homes. In the early 1970s, having accomplished the programme of cleansing the land from its population, Britain made good on a deal which it had negotiated with the United States of America, and the USA began constructing its naval and air force base on the largest of the Chagos islands, Diegio Garcia; by which the United States has since maintained its strategic command of the Indian Ocean”
Hypocrisy anyone?
Plenty of people on those vessels would have no idea of the complexity of the issues between Britain and Argentina, so why should they be implimented in it! No one on those vessels will be blaming britain for being turned away or suddenly supporting the agentinian cause, so i can only assume that the port authorities made a balls-up.
When two countries start to clash swords, it is fairly usual to start flexing muscles through business related channels, however, i really dont think the argeninian gov. is doing themselves any favours by complicating the tourism industry!
What about Britain sending to South America their most powerful destroyer, the HMS Dauntless, Prince William, second-in-line to the British throne and a nuclear submarine?
Is that a good practise?
We can do whatever we like in international waters and our own territory.
yes it is good practise to send a HMS Dauntless in exchange for the other frigate....standard naval procedure! So another FULL STOP!
Are you scared of Prince William (i am not a hard line royalist so i dont give a damn and cant believe anyone else should)? I dont know why all RG's have such an issue with it! it really isnt such a big deal! Come on man (actually are you a man or a kid just about to go to bed and whack one out in your sock?)!!
Submarine?! Cant comment as i dont know where it is and i am guessing you dont either! Thats the point! but yes i would say its good practise to have a sub and have it roaming the waters! Again, it is the point of having one! FULL STOP!
Anyway, can you in a simple paragraph explain what is to be gained by turning away cruise ships? What message does it signal? to whom is it a benefit?
yes it is good practise to send a HMS Dauntless in exchange for the other frigate....standard naval procedure! So another FULL STOP!
Submarine?! Cant comment as i dont know where it is and i am guessing you dont either! Thats the point! but yes i would say its good practise to have a sub and have it roaming the waters! Again, it is the point of having one! FULL STOP!
Are you scared of Prince William (i am not a hard line royalist so i dont give a damn and cant believe anyone else should)? I dont know why all RG's have such an issue with it! it really isnt such a big deal! Come on man (actually are you a man or a kid just about to go to bed and whack one out in your sock?)!! FULL SOCK!!
Anyway, can you in a simple paragraph explain what is to be gained by turning away cruise ships? What message does it signal? to whom is it a benefit?
The Chagos Islanders negotiated a deal about their future. That IS self-determination.
Now why don't you try offering the Falkland Islanders something that'll tempt them to join you ? It'll require imagination :-)
With a couple of these you can have the “kebab eater subs” pretty scary to enter in your maritime zone. Just in case they go mad and try something really stupid.
If you don’t want to spend $$$ you can turn your diesel sub into silence subs using hydrogen cells. They will shit they underwear if they cannot detect your subs. That’s it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rTpwPTHenA
About banning cruise vessels to enter Agentinian ports if they visit “kebab islands” it is a wonderful idea as soon companies realized how much $$$ they are going to lose, they immediately will drop “kebab islands”.
Even the British will refuse to go there. Trust me money is a powerful weapon in the right hands.
I have read your rubbish regarding armaments before. Where do you dream up this crap?
Your TR1700s are 30 years old! They have STEEL hulls! How can they evade one of our stealth subs - answer - they cannot!
You really need to understand how hydrogen cells work and the dangers of having super high pressure hydrogen on a submarine before you believe this rubbish. Whilst this MIGHT be possible with an advanced country that is used to technical discipline to minimise the latent disasters of hydrogen there is NO WAY Argentina could operate one. You can't even run the trains safely .
The only D/E sub worth having was the German one and that has only 45 days endurance and NO stealth.
Stop playing with yourself and look at the facts in the real world.
What a twat.
Should the Chagos Folk right to abode in the UK? no. Should the Ghurkas? yes.
DYOR, most of your cruise business stems from the US, or you will find most firms have a US subsidiary. US Anti-Boycott laws make it illegal to comply with a foreign boycott.
All you've done is shoot your own businesses in the foot.
It's just hilariously petty. I find it very very interesting to watch because I never knew that pettiness of this scale was even possible.
I'm wondering what nationality you are as your last post makes me realise you aren't actually British.
You've obviously never been to Britain.
The British are a global people we can be found all over the world, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, America, South Africa, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, the Caribbean, Spain, Portugal, Europe.
For a race of people who you claim (after watching the film This is England) to be degenerate and disintegrating we seem to be doing a lot better than most.
As for all the bad things we've done. What about all the good. Again, you can only see the bad, you would probably have a brain hemorrhage if you tried to see anything else.
India wouldn't even exist today had it not been for the British Empire. It was a collection of hundreds of feuding and waring Principalities and fiefdoms, with no common language and no common culture. So the idea that we destroyed India - well it didn't even exist before we built it. Remember Gandhi? Don't believe the propaganda, Gandhi served in the British Army during the Boer War, he was a Sargent Major, he didn't like blacks, he documented his feelings in black and white he called them “subhuman”. Mr Jinnah, the leader of the Muslim League and one of the founding fathers of Pakistan, called Gandhi a “British agent”. Either way Lord Mountbatten was so impressed by Gandhi that he got his friend Richard Attenborough to make a film about him.
Yes, there is “his-story” and there is “history” and one mans “his-story” is never going to be the same as another mans “his-story”.
Back to some of the good Britain done in the world, we built most of Africa, we gave birth to the free world, we gave the world most of the popular sports in play today - Golf, Cricket, Rugby, Soccer, Tennis, Polo, Hockey, etc. We gave birth to the United States, both in government, law and people.
We defeated fascism in WW2. We defended the right of small nations to exist in WW1 - part of British grand strategic strategy, as laid down by the “father of geography” Halford Mackinder.
TBC
And Marcos (8) it isnt the Falklands that needs some help it is Ushuaia that will need all the help it can get now.
As for all the good Britain did for Argentina the list is endless. Settlers, Patagonia, sports, we didn't just build the railways, we helped built your cities, we were Argentina largest trading partner for over 100 years, we help build your ports, airports, we trained your Navy, Anglo-Argentines still make up a significant percentage of senior officers in your military. The list goes on and on.
But I understand Mr Burger, that to the average propagandised Argentina one film stands as a reinforcement to preconceived bigotry based on nationalist feelings towards the “external enemy” as laid down to them by their government!
British films and actors dominate hollywood, there are hundreds to watch. “”This is England” isn't one of them. It political film aimed at anti-Thatcherism. It bears no relation to reality. It exaggerates, the extreme, which may work as a means to get a message across in the same way Argentine propaganda works to proclaim the Falklands Islands to be occupied by pirates, squatting on Argentine land.
Looking down my nose at them would be another option, I guess.
Sounds more like something an antipodean would say.
Good films to watch to understand Argentina are -
La historia oficial [1985]
Iluminados Por El Fuego (2005)
Missing (1982) -
The later film is about Pinochet's Chile but as Argentina was 50 x worse is a good illustration of how a fascist Argentine government served American corporate interests in a CIA opreration to remove the political left.
La historia oficial is another good example of CIA Latin AMerican Operation - Operation Condor - an operation to liquidate (or in the Argentine version torture, rape (including the rape and murder of children and their parents and the adoption of those under two years old by loyal Argentine families).
Bodies dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, families never to know if their son or daughter died or is still alive in some secret camp somewhere.
Evil beyond imagination, orchestrated on the orders of a fascism military junta, trained by former Nazi's and operating on the orders of an Imperialist American Secret Police.
In Argentina they are still murdering people.
As your Mariano Moreno once said “if publishing the truth is forbidden then lies, ignorance and poverty will triumph.”
Such is modern day Argentina. No longer in the hands of a fascist military junta but a neo-fascist (Peronist), Nationalist, Socialist, Corporatist dynastic re-enactment of the Peron government. Where publishing the truth, holding the government to account and exposing the lies are either crimes or regarded as crimes, by the government and their growing band of mesmerised, incited nationalistic population.
That is what I call a dysfunctional and degenerate country - the most extreme kind.
TDF has laid it out, now let's all play it out.
Are you a medium o or something like that you know if I was or not in GB?
errrm... But you still are failing to explain how your “kebab’s culture” helped to build up Argentina I’m just curious about the stupidity you are going to write mate that’s all.
“India wouldn't even exist today had it not been for the British Empire” ehem...
India existed before you exploited her mate.
Any Indu out there to ratify your grateful owe to Sir kebab Anti-Fascist?
Free world? When you still have a queen as a head of state? Its not that so stupid to claim?
So according with you when the Argentinians Architect built your tallest building in UK they can say that you wouldn’t exist without them? I don’t get your logic.
So when someone build something in Britain is because you are so rich to pay for it and you feel glamorous but when you build something in another place you are building a nation.
Only a stupid can have that way of thinking, especially because in Britain there is nothing built by brits on these days. Even your boats for the army are made in Korea. Well to be honest may be kebabs shops but nothing else.
Come on tell me more because I never laugh so much.
@ ChrisR
Even though they are techniques to reduce magnetism on carbon steel when you get into the limit range to detect the magnetic field you will be a dead duck.
By the way are you safe from laser beam detection? Just wonder mate?
Inox steel or stainless steel helps but will not make you safer. And 45 days its a quite good time to see your ass come back then to go to Rio de Janeiro to drink a beer and going back again to see you ass. No so bad isn’t mate?
@ GreekYoghurt
Don’t you worry none on this forum is educated come on and don’t repress your anger and frustration spit it out. Freedom of speech mate. BTW have you got your ration of kebab today? Ha ha
I supose you would have to add by installments the list of 'good things' Britain has done for the world on this forum. Its interesting how the anti-British here scrabble about trying to discredit Britain by pulling out skeletons from the dusty cuboards of the past.
As an island race we have been subjected to numerous invasions and as such have a very war-like and warrior nature about us. I love the Monty Python sketch 'and what have the Romans ever done for us?', this should be changed with Argies sitting about a BA cafe and saying, 'and what has the British ever done for us?'...comedy could be the way forward the more I think about it as the blogs here get funnier by the hour.
It is interesting to hear the opinions of naval strategists as to the relative merits of submarines. I live near the RN bases on the Clyde, in Scotland and have seen the Astute class of submarine and all the Daring class Destroyers on exercise.
The Argentine navy would be better staying in port !
Both vessels are in a different class to anything you could aspire to and their crews are regularly trained up to war time standards. The American author, Tom Clancy researched submarine warfare for his book-“the hunt for Red October”. He asked USN SUBMARINE captains what would they be most frightened of in a war scenario. The reply was ”a Royal Navy hunter/killer submarine! What chance would your lot have ?
However, it will never come to this when everyone comes to their senses
Hmm... nice.
“Argies sitting about a BA cafe and saying, 'and what has the British ever done for us?’”
I can tell you what Britons have done for Argentina.
1- Invasion of Buenos Aires (1806) and a humiliating failure for pommies.
2- Invasion of Buenos Aires (1807) and a humiliating failure again.
3- 1833 Malvinas invasion.
4- Not enough for you to learn a blockade of Parana river (1845) was your best choice but this time with the help of french. And another failure.
5- As all above failed you try by economic means and draconian agreements kill arg little industries and to keep money flow to the crown.
6- In 1930 Kebabs Islands block Argentinian exports and as result kebabs got more contracts and privileges like that 80% of arg exports have to be made by Brit business and tax exception to Moham products.
7- 1939 Englanners went belly up (default) and Arg. condoned by preasure 1 billion pound to her majesty
8- As you were unable to pay back the huge debt to Argentina, Peron had take the railways, bombers, arms and I don’t know how many shitty things to get something in return from your debt.
Well the list can be very long of good things you have done for Argentina.
Would you like the list of Germany?
@ Clyde15
Yeah mate this is in fantasyland but realty can be very different.
Royal Navy chiefs left red-faced after brand new £1.2bn nuclear submarine is left high and dry off the coast of Scotland
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322817/Royal-Navy-shame-nuclear-submarine-HMS-Astute-left-high-dry-Scottish-coast.html
Now imagine how long you sub will survive from and Arg. attack from air.
@ElaineB
You need to get out from Palarmo Hollywood more often mate.
... funny why you'd miss that one.
I'm glad I mentioned the skeletons in the cuboard, so scary arn't they? Boo!
Wise up old chap, throwing stones in glass houses is a very bad idea, the bloggers here will soon refresh your poor memory. The bad things that your lot have done and are still doing have hardly been a generation in the past...be careful what you wish for mate!
Couldn't manage it in 82 when they were doing picket duty?
What wonder weapon do you have that can find and sink a nuclear sub. from the air. You could not find HMS Conqueror when she was sitting under the Belgrano!!!!
Also, sinking an atomic powered sub. in your “own”waters could leave a nasty mess of radioactivity blowing in towards the mainland - not a pleasant thought.
This discussion is getting silly. I doubt if anyone in the UK bears any real ill-will against the Argentinian people. Apart from football, the tango, Evita and gauchos, nobody knows or thinks much about your country
HHahaHHAhahHAah Argie-fun.
At the time India came under the British Empire it did not exist as an homogeneous whole, indeed it had never existed as an homogeneous whole or a nation state. There was various forms of an Indian Empire, ruled over with an iron rod by higher castes (the blue eyed, Caucasian Indians who originated in the Caucus). The British unified India, gave India a common language and identity and gave birth to the largest democracy on the planet. Most Indian's today will readily acknowledge what Britain done in creating modern India. India is a member of the British Commonwealth, not because they loath the British but because they respect us.
The British Empire did good and bad. Unless you're capable of looking at history in a detached way, you shouldn't bother looking at history at all. Unfortunately too many people, think they know his-story when all they are doing is reinforcing their own prejudices.
Second point - you say that Britain having a Queen means we're no a democracy. Tell that to the Commonwealth nations who share our Queen. When was the last time the Queen walked into parliament, here or anywhere else and introduced a bill or decreed something? Never! You will find Oliver Cromwell dealt with the power of the monarchy in 1649.
You're just being stupid Danny.
The Parliamentary system in England evolved from the legislature introduced after the Norman Conquest in 1066 (unlike you guys we acknowledge the people who conquered us and thus contributed to modern Britain), as such it is the oldest parliamentary system in the world.
What has Britain done for Argentina? I've answered this question before in depth and it was a waist of time. If you're really interested do your own research, it isn't difficult.
Argentina is as a country is a lot like Britain culturally but is governed more like a Central African Republic, than a G20 nation and the nationalism is something totally alien to British culture.
TBC
Argentina was founded by Europeans, settled by Europeans and today is governed by Europeans. The largest sources of Argentine immigrants were Italy, Spain, Germany and the British Isles. Of course there were others like Nester's parents who came from Austria, or Cristina Fernández who parents came from Spain and Germany.
Argentina came out of the Spanish Empire but for almost a century afterwards was dominated in trade and economics by the British Empire, when that changed the American's took over.
Argentina isn't just a product of European immigrants, who murdered more of the Amerindians but they also wiped out all the Negros. And thus unique to the hole of Latin America, Argentina stands as a European enclave on a continent where the Amerindians and those of mixed heritage predominate.
Many Argentines are not just nationalistic but racist. What is my proof for this? Personal experience. You yourself refer to Britain as being over run by Pakistani (actually they make up about 1% of our population) and our Kebab culture (personally I can't stand kebabs, the food that is, not using it as an adjective for people!). I'm constantly reminded of how racist Argentines are on here by their constant reference to race and nationalities and their belief that they are in some way “exceptional” - a common nationalist ideal.
This racism probably comes from Argentine's history of being a refuge for so many people fleeing Europe but longing to keep their heritage. It may also be due to the large number of escaping Nazi and former fascists fleeing all parts of Europe to make a home in Argentina. Also, Argentina hasn't been faced with large numbers of non white immigrants until fairly recently.
In Britain we accept that if it wasn't for the Roman's we would have been running around like savages well into the middle ages. If it hadn't been for the Norman's Britain wouldn
We accept that we're a nation of different cultures and heritage, as well as shared culture and heritage. We don't claim to be “the master race”. We are descended from the Celts, the Angles, the Saxons, the Norse, the Danes, Normans, Jutes, etc. We're been a refuge for Jews, Gypsies, Hugonaughtes, Dutch, French, Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, etc. Even our Royal family can trace its heritage to almost every part of the British Isles and most European countries (not just Germany). Princess Dianna, was even descended from Afghan Royalty. We are English, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx, Channel islanders, etc. It's not unique to Europe or the world but we don't claim to be some homogeneous nationality.
Mass immigration has gone too far in Britain but its even worse in Europe, France now looks more like Algeria than France. Argentina is also suffering from mass immigration. In the not too distant future, the Amerindians will one day become the dominate population of Argentina.
When Britain left the Empire, the Empire came to Britain. Asians forced out of Uganda and Kenya, whites fleeing Rhodesia, blacks fleeing West African genocides. There was no Algerian War, Mozambique, or Angolan War, or Indochina or Vietnam War as we withdrew from Empire just minor conflicts, that pale into insignificance in comparison.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107507/Primary-school-just-26-700-pupils-speak-English-language.html
More racism from the Argies.
Guys you need to grow up.
The Daily Mail specialises in worrying conservatives. While the Guardian specialises in attacking everything that isn't Marxist. While the Sun, the Mirror and the Daily Star specialises in salacious scandal, gossip. All press - everywhere - lie and exaggerate.
Muslims make up about 2.5% of the British population! They have become 2.5% thanks to the open door immigration policies of the last two decades, thus fairly recently.
That's a quick rise in the Islamic population but I can assure you 2.5% of the population are not going to take over the country any time soon no matter what - yawn - the Daily Mail (of all papers) claim.
But it does make me laugh to see the two most popular papers with Argentines are the Maxist anti British Guardian and the once pro Hitler Daily Mail :)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107552/Manchester-Liverpool-Birmingham-areas-drugs-gangs--just-like-Mexico-Brazil.html
Spectacular new discovery proves that America was discovered by Europeans NOT Indians !
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2107418/Could-tools-belonging-Stone-Age-hunters-U-S-east-coast-finally-answer-really-discovered-America.html
I love the Daily Mail. It's the most addictive newspaper in the world.
“UN: drug gangs controlling parts of British cities
Parts of British cities are becoming no-go areas where drugs gangs are effectively in control, a United Nations drugs chief said today”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9110374/UN-drug-gangs-controlling-parts-of-British-cities.html
@ 192 If you lived in Argentina, you would know that there are thousands of no-go areas in Argentina. You're brilliant, eh
What sort of Pirate's Cove is this if until recently they allowed Pirates of various types to birth there? Gosh.
This is where I live... this is England...
tiny.cc/sqnln
When these “drug gangs” turn up I'll let you all know. If they hit my patch, the locals will be shipping them out in coffins.
Of course, the major cities in the UK - all ten of them, have some crime problems, mostly under 18 feral rug rats, but its nothing the Police can't handle. Inner City Birmingham is a bit of dive, recently it's looking more and more like parts of inner city Paris.
The Daily Mail love's to give Britain's OAP's strokes and heart problems.
''The consequences of failure are too high for society and should be avoided at all cost.''
May be they have seen “This is England” movie?
“The majority of our children start school with levels of English language development that are below national averages.”
Dear Richard O'Sullivan with all due respect do you think that someone of them are posting on Mercopress?
@Anti-Fascist
“I can assure you 2.5% of the population are not going to take over the country any time soon no matter what - yawn - the Daily Mail (of all papers) claim”
So mate are you sure that Moreno from INDEC (ARG statistics institute) is not making your stats?
Because seems that the rest (97.75%) have moved abroad.
Good job TDF government!
All in a days work for Frau kristina and her reich
As of 2010 (published in 2011) there are 2,869,000 of them which is 4.6% of the population. How many have arrived / been born since?
The biggest problem was of course Blair's idiotic 'multi-culturism'. How anyone in their right mind would ever think this would have worked is beyond belief.
We now have 5% of the population dictating that we cannot have 'Christmas' we now have 'winter holidays': and yes, I am still an atheist, but there are a hell of a lot more christians than rag-heads in the UK.
The schools are being forced to allow muslims to take over the direction of 'religious studies' and before long the number of mosques in some areas like Bradford will out number churches.
In itself this does not mater. What really matters is how these immigrants and their offspring are taking ove the local services and a significant number in enclaves like Stoke-on-Trent taking fraudulent advantage of the benefit services by running their own businesses and claiming unemployment benefit.
Then we come to the few? whose young men go 'home' meaning Pakistan, to learn how to kill and main white people (the infidel) using bombs.
What to do? I know what I would do, but the government would never get close to what really needs to be done to stop the problem, once and for all.
Civilised countries (especially airlines and ship lines) beware of fascist Argentina!
Philippe
Yeah definitely your statistics are wrong www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3FwTtBVjk
You have a serious problem there mate. Argentina pyjamas free it’s no fantastic?
The stats are not a secret, you can google them!
If you'd ever been to the UK you would know. Most inward migration to the UK is from Europe.
Travel to France, Germany, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Malta, even Sweden on the other hand and the experience is very different.
You think immigration is bad here? Visit Europe.
Clearly Argentine Peronism - nationalism, socialism, corporatism includes a strong racist agenda. I hope the rest of Latin America are taking note, especially the Amerindians.
www.thepoke.co.uk/2012/02/28/argentina-blockades-tanker-ship-full-of-branston-pickle/
HMS Astute:
YYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN..................
old old old news, try keeping up to date, your about 18 months behind the times.
Last time she is in the news she was practising launching tomahawk missiles, the sort we could post into your air bases and power stations.
Your diesel electric subs do pose a threat, but we have plenty of asw assets.
I suggest you look again at the sensor suites on the opposing vessels. Yours are outranged by ours. If we got serious and deployed a wolf pack of 3-4 nuclear subs there would be nothing you could do about it.
And what are you waiting for?
The thing is that you don’t know the most secrete Argentinian Nuclear Brit sub detector called MKENSD an acronyms form “Mohammed Kebabs Eaters Nuclear Submarine Detector”.
The sophisticate device based on cutting edge smelling technology has a big nose able to detect Kebabs from Leicester Square. An advanced computer made of 25 multiplexed CPUs in parallel with a multi-touch screen based on blob technology running a 124 Bit OS and a sophisticate software is capable of classify what sauce and type of kebab is being eating in milliseconds.
After detection an electronic arm points to given co-ordinates where the Kebab Eater’s Nuclear Submarine is and a voice alarm tells the Missile launcher operator “Mohamed down There please shoot” the launch have to be made manually to avoid error as naturally the arm tents to point to London.
The cruiser missile with a warhead with 1t of wine, curry, vinegar, pieces of caw meat and soap is launched and Mohammeds die in a fraction of second.
Then I will tell you about the High Tech Argie “BSAD” or British Smelly Armpits Detector” what is driving crazy Your MoD because will imply to order your soldiers to take a shower every day. If the want to die of course.
Now can you tell me when are you going to launch your MT because I’m planning to make a big barbecue.
Well, he is already a dead-head. :o)
Riiiiiiiggggghhhtttt..........
Back on about the “Kebab Eaters” yet again!
You might want to get some help about this.
“You might want to get some help about this.”
Why should I if the people who eat kebabs are you?
Now would you like to talk about British Shaira law or is a sensitive topic for you?
Do you know when the judgement is expected?
We are expecting polls results first.
Anyway, we might not go at all as CFK seems to want another approach(which Fabiana will follow) and also, Chubut interprets the law in the opposite way, so she might withdraw from her stance as she lacks support outside the province.
@225
Really pissed off are most. Luckily about 33% to 40% of tourism sector works with cruises, so it wasn't so hard economically. But still, touristic sector is really mad at the government.
“Why should I if the people who eat kebabs are you”
-So who am I then!
“Now would you like to talk about British Shaira law or is a sensitive topic for you?”
-It’s not a sensitive subject for me!
Not sure what you mean by “British Sharia law”, under English law you can practice what ever religious code you wish, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, Catholic, or what ever takes your fancy, in so far as it does not conflict with English law.
Moderate Islam teaches that Muslims living in non Muslims countries, should abide by the laws of that country, so long as does not prevent them following their faith.
Most Muslims living in the UK seem to be OK with this, and are amongst the most law abiding citizens in the UK (Come out on the Piss with me and some of the Gringo boys down Camden Town, or similar, and you will see what I mean)
Of course there are different interpretations of these things, but this is how it has worked up to date, I do not see this changing.
BTW, does MKENSD work on both Halal and non Halal meat?
What about this?
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7232661.stm
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html
I do not say things are perfect here, there are extremists and tensions within communities as well as between communities, in some respects we are seeing a struggle for the soul of the Muslim community.
As I said “in so far as it does not conflict with English law”, where it does it will be dealt with.
It is one thing to say something, it is quite another to make it happen. What Choudary is proposing will not even have much support amongst his own community.
On the up side, Argentina will be able to buy its oil & gas imports from the Falklands, and save on the cost of transporting it long distances, such as from the Gulf, or Russia.
@231. I personally would rather prefer the chance of seeing a penguin in the Falklands than a plastic face in BA.
@233. You seriously have got a clue about the real world. The only thing you understand is the lies and bullshit you get fed by your backwards government.
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