Friday, March 2nd 2012 - 05:06 UTC

Falklands distrust to Argentine proposal, but recall 1999 deal is ‘three sided’

Falkland Islanders reacted with skepticism and further distrust to the latest announcements by Argentine president Cristina Fernandez regarding air links with Argentina, while Falklands’ elected lawmakers said the proposal was too ‘muddled’ and with errors for the local government to respond.

MLA Sawle, “the announcement was very muddled and with errors” of dates and number of flights

Nevertheless, if the intention was to re-open negotiations on the 1999 three side (UK, Argentina, Falklands’ government) agreement, then “the Falkland Islands would look forward to discussing the principles agreed at that meeting which have since been abandoned by Argentina”.

In her State of the Nation speech to Congress President Cristina Fernandez announced Argentina’s intention of negotiating, with the UK, direct air links between Buenos Aires and the Falklands, based on a review of the 1999 agreement, but leaving aside Lan Chile and opting for Aerolineas Argentinas.

Falkland Islanders who still have bad memories of similar experiences with direct flights to Argentina a few decades ago, regarded the proposal as a deeply cynical political move designed to suppress increasing worldwide criticism of Argentina’s extremely aggressive “Malvinas” policy targeted at a community of 3.000 people.

Currently the Islands are served by one commercial flight a week from Punta Arenas, Chile, by LAN airlines, which twice a month it stops in the Argentine town of Rio Gallegos. Argentine agreement to the flight was one of the policies included in 1999 British/Argentine agreement, in which the Falkland Island Government also took active part.

The air link with Punta Arenas remains the only principle agreed that Argentina has abided by, although as recently as September 2011 President Fernandez said before the UN General Assembly that she was considering placing a ban on the use of Argentine airspace for the LAN flight.

For close observers of Argentina’s recent up-scaling of diplomatic maneuvers on the Falklands, the announcement appears both contradictory and indicative of an erratic approach that is more tactical than strategic.

As recently as 3 weeks ago Argentine Ambassador to Uruguay, Dante Dovena, declared in relation to a Uruguayan business delegation to the Islands that: “We see it with good eyes; we don’t want to affect the lives of the Islanders, on the contrary. We have no pre-disposition towards the Islanders, and we don’t want to establish any blockade of any kind”

However, in a week when two cruise ships flying British or convenience flag were banned from Ushuaia and the Argentine Government is urging businesses and industry to ban imports from the UK, it is most unlikely that Falkland Islanders will oversee them, no matter what, if any, benevolent peaceful intentions towards them are proposed.

Dik Sawle, elected Member of the Legislative Assembly of the Falklands, said that the announcement was very muddled with errors made in both the date of the British-Argentine agreement of 1999 and the stated number of flights made by LAN to the Falklands.

MLA Sawle said that until they could have a clearer understanding about the President’s real intentions there was little the Government could respond to, but added that if it was Cristina Fernandez intention to re-open negotiations on the 1999 agreement, then the Falkland Islands would look forward to discussing the principles agreed at that meeting which have since been abandoned by Argentina.

This would include re-opening discussions on regional fisheries management, co-operation on hydrocarbons development, plus removal of the ban on charter flights imposed by Argentina and dropping the use of the name “Puerto Argentino” for Stanley.

In addition the President could show a real intention of repealing recent laws banning fishing companies from holding interests in both the Falklands and Argentina and requiring its neighbors to ban Falkland flagged vessels from docking in South American ports.

Mike Summers, another Member of the Legislative Assembly, said that Falkland Islanders were generally skeptical about the announcement and there would be little, if any, support for direct flights to and from Buenos Aires on an Argentine airline. “There are too many issues going on at the moment, and people see it as another attempt to entrap the population into something against their own interests...”

During the seventies following a 1971 Communications Agreement between Britain and Argentina, and until the Argentine invasion of the Islands in 1982, Falkland Islanders only air link in and out of the Islands was via scheduled flights to Argentina operated by the Argentine Air Force. At that time, locals were required to enter and exit Argentina using specially designed identity documents instead of their British passports.

Even at times of more rational Governments in Argentina Summers said, there is deep distrust of any intent to trap the population into being reliant on Argentina for their access in and out of the Islands.

From the British side, a Foreign Office spokesman has stated that any discussion on flights is a matter for the Falkland Island Government to decide, but added that if President Cristina Fernandez wished to increase air links between the Falklands and the South American continent she should consider lifting the ban on charter flights and other commercial routes through Argentine air space.

By Janet Robertson - SeAledPR - Stanley

 

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1 fermin (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:44 am Report abuse
“Falkland Islanders [...] regarded the proposal as a deeply cynical political move designed to suppress increasing worldwide criticism of Argentina’s extremely aggressive “Malvinas” policy...”

Wow! Lies are starting to be extremely unsofisticated.

If there existed a “worldwide criticism against Argentina” the UK would go into multilateral organisms and would show itself supported by concrete world leaders in stead of trying to make this conflict go back to silence in the shadows, no?

In stead of sending warships, no? They know Argentina is no military threaten. How is Argentina gonna threaten Malvinas Islands and the people libing there if it is part of its territory... I think the British Colonial ideology is proyecting its colonial practices over a country like Argentina, that has never been a colonial power, doesn't want to be and wouldn't know how to be one.

I would like to know what world leaders are considered to be part of this “worldwide criticism”.

I can name the governments who are not part of this: the USA one, China, Russia, Spain, Iran, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, and all the rest of larinamerican countries.

And these are just the ones that I remember now that said something about this conflict, neutral in the case of the US and in support of Argentina in the case of China, all Southamerica and most of Central America.

I would also like to lnow of all the islanders take their oppinion to such an extreeme and hilarious like “cynical political move”.
2 xbarilox (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:54 am Report abuse
@ 1 Hola camporista, ¿estuviste en el congreso hoy? Boudou miente, peronista :) Fermin, you'll need to write comments longer than that to convince the Falklanders of your good intentions. You'll have to wait for so long, that you'll grow roots and branches until you are a tree. Enjoy it :)
3 brit abroad (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:58 am Report abuse
fermin, change your name to vermin please. it will suit you better

replys to this post are not monitored so please do not respond.
4 Lord Ton (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:59 am Report abuse
Nicely put response - looks like you were right Think - no 'move' at all :-)
5 Boovis (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:17 am Report abuse
So Argentina have, for all intents and purposes, been laying siege to the islands, and now offers their vehicles as the only way out of the siege. Is this the middle ages or what's going on here?
Considering CFK's behaviour of the past months, no right-minded person would think she has no other motive. To let her control the air routes would be a notch on her belt and a win for her attempt at claiming the islands. Hey kids, just say no.
6 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:18 am Report abuse
Mike Summers, another Member of the Legislative Assembly, said “There are too many issues going on at the moment”

You can't handle it Mike? ask Dick..Sawle, this fine englishman from Sheffield is a surfer, spanish teacher and a egyptologist.
7 Boovis (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:23 am Report abuse
@6 I would suggest there are too many things going as Argentina is busy blocking shipping and trade to the islands and that's more of a concern right now than opening up some air route with what he perceives as a foreign aggressor. If you had no food because your neighbour kept cutting your tyres, then one day knocked on your door and said “hey, do you want a lift to the shops?” you'd be suspicious too.
@1 what are you talking about “sending warships”?! There was one ship there and has been for the past 30 years, the numbers haven't changed. If your point is that the ship is more powerful, that's like saying “200 years ago they had a ship of the line there, now they have metal boats and everything”. It's called technology, sorry if our ships are taking advantage of scientific changes, maybe the Argentine navy can take note.
8 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:41 am Report abuse
George Galloway interviews Patrick Mercer
Feb 2012
“3000 people can not lead British foreign policy..”

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywrirqt-2Gc
9 ARGENTINOHASTALASBOLAS (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:41 am
Comment removed by the editor.
10 Boovis (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:44 am Report abuse
@8 George Galloway? Seriously? Look up “George Galloway plays the role of a cat” on youtube and look at who you're quoting. This man has also openly supported Islamic extremist terrorists, but then I know Argentina's friends with Iran so why does that not surprise me?
11 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:57 am Report abuse
I can see how this will go on. Islander do not want Pt. Arenas-Stanley to end. CFK makes sure that flight will still go on claiming “We care of the Islanders”. The flights will be subdized. Eventually LAN will make the flight less regular. Flights between Stanley and major Patagonian cities in the south will be done once or twice a month. Punta Arenas will keep loosing importance. As LAN is private, they will eventually find the flight is no longer profitable. And they make it less regular.

And she might end doing the same with ships. But they have to be Argentine ships. And BTW she helps strenghten our Mercantile fleet.

Brazil and Uruguay will still be mostly closed and Chile can't compete with us in price for vegetables and meat. So you end up buying most from us. And you are where she wants you to be.

This is what I believe she plans to happen. And as she(or her harty) is unfortunately likely to stay in power(for now), this may very well happen.
12 STRATEGICUS (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:22 am Report abuse
@ 11

The per capita income of the average Falklander is put at approx $65,000 per annum as compared to less than $15,000 for the average Argentinian .This is even before the oil money starts flowing ( at least $10 billion from the Rockhopper finds alone) and probably more the way the price of oil is going.

Latin America, even now with the growth of Brazil , is a regional backwater as compared to the global Anglo world. Even civilised Latin countries such as Mexico are scary with their 50,000 drug deaths.

With the type of money the islanders are in line to receive they can afford to establish links to anywhere in the world.To South Africa,over the pole to Australia and New Zealand ;to people they feel more comfortable with, who are not constantly bullying them.

Just as with the 1982 war this upsurge of Argentinian 'huff and puff' is doing the Falkland and British cause a favour because it makes people around the world look at Argentina as a 'fruitcake country'. Not as much of a danger to the world as North Korea , Iran or Venezuela but definitely not quite right in the head.
13 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:49 am Report abuse
@12
And this relates to my statements because...?
14 Beef (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:53 am Report abuse
Marcos - so you are a fan of Galloway? A man who said he admired Sadam Hussain. You do like you dictators down there don't you. Do you also have a photo of Galtierri in your wallet?

Would you want to be Galloway's pussy cat?
15 brit abroad (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:58 am Report abuse
Last Friday joke:

Arguing with a Argentine is like playing chess with a pigeon.

You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut around triumphantly.
16 Green Goose (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:08 am Report abuse
Another thing. Do the Argentines run their planes like their trains?
17 Monty69 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:13 am Report abuse
11 JuanStanic

That won't happen, chiefly because we weren't born yesterday. Do you think we don't know what she is up to?

Our job is to make sure that everyone else knows just what she has in mind, and to wring the maximum advantage from it. That includes making sure she agrees to 'negotiate' with us over any possible change to the 1999 agreement.
Another thing we could do would be then to offer again an 'open skies' policy. We could get our charter flights back and the second LAN flight and watch the BA flight wither due to lack of demand. Not sure this is the right move, but worth considering.
18 STRATEGICUS (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:31 am Report abuse
@13
South America,particularly Argentina , has become less relevant to the future of the Falkland Islands than it might have been in the past. This is an increasing trend. I get the impression the Falklanders are quite enjoying their 'mini state' status with their freedom to decide things for themselves.

If you look at a list of the worlds countries by population the smallest independent ones have a population of maybe 10,000 (Nauru and Tuvalu; also islands).The Falklands have 3000 but a GNP bigger than those other mini-states and not threatened to the same extent by global warming.
In 1984, recovering from the war in effect, when thousands of British troops were billeted in the islands ,and the whole place was a mess, the islanders were in a state of shock. Now they are a self confident,self reliant community with just about everything going their way. They are immune to Argie threats .

To quote 'Gone with the Wind'; 'frankly my dear, they do not give a damn' for Argentina or its looney policies.The outside non Latam world is a bigger and more interesting place.

The big surge in tourism is eco tourism and in the South Atlantic/Antarctica region the 'jewel in the crown' is South Georgia and
the new Marine Protected Zone and who controls that.Britain and the Gateway to the Antactic; the Falklands.

Argentina might be a 'big fish' in its local pond but on the world stage it is 'small beer'. I read La Nacion,Clarin ,Perfil,Pagina 12 and I am amazed at how many Argentines diss their own country and the government.Many even say where it went wrong was in not being a British colony.

In 1900 Argentina was one of the richest ,most powerful countries
outside Europe. If it was an Anglo country it would be there alongside Australia and Canada in wealth and power. Instead it is a joke country obsessed with harassing a tiny group of islands and their 3000 British population.
19 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:50 am Report abuse
@17
Well, as I said, I think this(what I stated) is what she is up to.

Now that open skies policy is surely less likely than we getting the Islands.

Really, I think that an option they are considering is to change the LAN flight from Chile to Argentina. So instead Pt. Arenas-Stanley it would be Rio Gallegos-Stanley or Bahia Blanca-Stanley.

@18
I again fail to see the connection.

Nevertheless, I admit ecotourism is the future. We have our own jewells with Isla de los Estados, Gable Island, etc. That just in TDF.

It's one of the nice things of Argentine Reviosinsm. The same happens with people thinking if Buenos Aires stayed independent, if Rivadavia wasn't president, if Moreno wasn't murder. And I could easily do a list exceeding allowed characters.

Nice thing about Alternate history is you can't grant things for sure. You can only debate on probabilites, likeness and butterflies.
20 STRATEGICUS (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:15 am Report abuse
I have met quite a few Latam's in London, mainly Brazilians and Argentinians as well as many Chilenos when I lived in Australia and without exception they are/were all nice amiable people. From an Anglo and European perspective there does seem to be a 'deadly seed' infecting many Hispanic countries and people. I remember once reading a quote by a famous Hispanic writer (I cant remember who it was) who said that the biggest problem with Hispanics are that they 'are in love with blood and death'.A very dramatic people.
The Anglos are more 'feet on the ground'. Maybe it is to do with the Catholic faith as compared to the more realistic Protestant religeon (being a Catholic myself).
21 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:54 am Report abuse
@20 Catholics live off guilt, so they need something to be guilty about in order to survive. In the case of Argentinians, they use lies. Remember when Tony 'Pure Evil' Blair decided he wanted to be Catholic so he could rule the whole of Europe? One can only imagine the steam and screaming that happened as they poured on tonnes of holy water, and sending out of more crucifixes, trying to extirpate those sins. I can only guess they had to give up after running out of resources, and sent him off to be a clearly suitable godfather to Rupert Murdoch's children.

That was one ex-protestant we were very happy to see the back of.
22 Marcelo Kohen (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:00 am Report abuse
This UK born person who speaks on behalf of the Islanders has not read the 1999 Agreement: the parties to it are the Argentine Republic and the (still) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Argentina always welcomes Islanders participation in the British delegation, but there are just two parties to the agreement, as well as to the dispute, even if one of them refuses to solve it in clear breach of the basic obligation to settle international disputes through the available peaceful means.
23 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:06 am Report abuse
@22 Marcelo, we read most of the agreements signed by the Argentinians, pretty much every last one they've failed to keep. As a lawyer, this must make you feel quite happy. But as an argentinian, we wouldn't trust a word you have to say.

In the modern world, in line with UN practices on decolonisation, the non-self governing territory is now a de facto self-governing territory.

Your obsession with living in the past and quoting legalities of which argentina has kept none of them, is tiresome. We expect nothing more from an Argentinian (except for more lies).
24 stick up your junta (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:12 am Report abuse
This UK born person who speaks on behalf of the Islanders

According to Section 55 of the Argentine Constitution, candidates for the Argentine Senate must

be at least 30 years old
have been a citizen of Argentina for six years
be native to the province of his office, or have been a resident of that province for two years.
25 STRATEGICUS (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:12 am Report abuse
Marcelo.as I asked you in a previous blog what are you with your surname doing being an apologist for this neo fascist peronist regime ? Peron himself said he had copied ideas from the Nazis.
26 lsolde (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:26 am Report abuse
Don't want their air links.
Don't trust them.
Don't even like them.
Want nothing to do with them.
As someone on here said, lets develop links over the south pole to Australia & New Zealand.
@22 Marcel,
Not 2 parties, 3.
Anyway, we have nothing to discuss with you.
27 Monty69 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:27 am Report abuse
19 JuanStanic

I know what 'they' are considering.
I'm just saying that it won't happen, because we will not agree to it.
We offer something else, and make it clear that we know what is in our best interests, and we do. There is no reason at all for us to agree to changing the flight to Rio Gallegos, apart from Argentina's crude blackmail.

22 Marcelo Kohen

This 'UK born person' is a Falkland Islander and a democratically elected representative of the people. Have a bit of respect and stop making yourself look like a racist. This has nothing to do with you.
You can put whatever spin on this you like. Anything to do with flights is the decision of FIG. The UK gov't said that quite clearly, and they are the administering power, not you. They are within their rights to decide that.
If you want to talk to a delegation of Falkland Islanders with an FCO official in tow to preserve your dignity, then I'm sure that can be arranged. It won't change the outcome though will it?
Oh and Falkland Islanders are not always welcome as part of the British delegation. They were told not to bother in 2003.
28 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 10:27 am Report abuse
@24 Is this why Argies don't accept Falklanders as being Argentinian, they just want the land. Because it would stop them standing for office in TDF province and then immediately declare they have seceded from Argentina.

@22 There are now three parties to the talks, that's what the UN C24 is all about apparently. If you don't like it, then go and talk to Ban Ki-moon. While you're there, ask him why Dokdo isn't being discussed at the C24, thanks.
29 Rufus (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 11:04 am Report abuse
Let me get this straight in my head. Following weeks/months/years of whining at anyone who will listen (or anyone who doesn't run away fast enough) rising to a crescendo of aging film stars saying stupid things in the media, Argentina has suddenly had a flashback to reality and is now willing to sit down and negotiate with the Falkland Islands about compliance with all of the international agreements that it has been ignoring and the blockade-only-it's-not-called-a-blockade that they've been trying to impose. And look, co-operation on fisheries and hydrocarbons are back on the table.
And one of the things they want to do “for” the islanders is to have direct flights to BsAs? Presumably well enough subsidised to drive LAN away? That can be stopped whenever Argentina has it's next hissy fit? Or there might be a requirement to have the old-style Argentine ID in order to disembark?

They might have come down in the last shower but I don't think that either the FIG or the UK did. Suddenly declaring good faith when all of your previous actions indicate bad faith isn't really going to wash.
30 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 11:42 am Report abuse
@29 No. It's found that the whinging wasn't enough and during some necromancy at the weekend, Nestor told her to do exactly what he was doing, which was to break the 1999 agreement with the UK, that basically prevents the Argies creating a full blown nonsense-fest.

Under Peronsim, the Argies will never sit down and talk to the FIG and no FIG member that's worth their weight in water would trust anything an Argentinian says.
31 Islander1 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 11:49 am Report abuse
JuanStatic- Fantasy Land again! Just supposing we Islanders were crazy enough to say- yes lets have AA coming in direct!
This would involve:

Arg Dept of Civil Aviation talking to and thus recognising Falkland Islads Govt dept of Civil Aviation.
Aerolinea doing the same.
Al Arg businesses who wanted to tradewith the Islands would be filling in standard International Expoewrt Regulation forms showiung they were EXPORTING goods from Arg to the Islands.
Arg Govt Dept of Customs and dept of Agriculture providing and processing theses forms and communicatinf directly with the Falkland Islands Govt Customs and Agric Departments to agrre the necessary International Protocols between both Countries.

All of the above would have to happen - Those are REAL FACTS.

Can you see any of those being permitted by your Govt which refuses to recognise that our Govt exists?

Get a life mate! -Oh, and incidentally ,Lan flies here because it is commerciaally viable - it makes a PROFIT flying here!
32 Conqueror (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 12:16 pm Report abuse
@1 & 22

Okay. I don't think there is any alternative. You guys get your way. All future air links to the Falkland Islands from the South American continent will be by Aerolineas Argentinas. Just three conditions. 1. Landing fees (£5,000) must be paid, in cash, before the aircraft leaves argieland. 2. Every person on every flight must be an argie national. 3. All Aerolineas Argentinas aircraft must land in the ocean at least 5 miles offshore.
33 Anti-Fascist (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 12:17 pm Report abuse
1 fermin

You will probably remember that the entire world was against Argentina invasion of the Falklands in 1982 - amongst the world the UN, the US, EU, Commonwealth, France, Spain, Ireland, Italy, Germany, Soviet Union and China.

Both the US and Australia offer us the use of an aircraft carrier, while New Zealand sent us ships.

I guess that by some warped logic the Argentines can claim the Falklands, by the same logic Britain could claim Argentina. You can convince yourself of the legitimacy of either but the rest of the world when presented with the facts will not be on your side.

Other than the UK, Argentina and the Falklands, no one cares. All the silly games in the world are not going to deliver the Falklands to Argentina.

I look forward to any further planned stunts you wish to pull. So far I'm tending to believe your President is some kind of double agent, she's doing a good job for Britain so far :)
34 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 03:25 pm Report abuse
27 Monty69 “This 'UK born person' is a Falkland Islander and a democratically elected representative of the people”

This English tourist from Sheffield moved to Malvinas in 1986 to teach Spanish.
Oh I almost forgot your colonial Governor was born in England as well, and moved to Malvinas after his marvelous job at Estonia and Basra(Iraq/Irak).

www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/Hon._Dick_Sawle.html
35 anti-fascist2 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
The plan is - after the Falklands reject the offer, CFK will say “we made them a responsable offer and they turned their nose up at it” .

We all know the truth - the Argentine neo fascist posters know the truth too - but she will turn around probable 2nd April and say well we made them a responsible offer they refuse, we will now suspend all flights.

Argentina will then be seen clearly for what it is, a economic terrorist nation, that continuously threatens the Falklands.
36 Anti-Fascist (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
34 Marcos Alejandro

I wonder where you were born? Or your parents? Or their parents?

We all know where you live and it isn't in Argentina. I don't think any Argie posters on here actually live in Argentina.

You are a nation of largely made up of 1st, 2rd, 3rd and 4th generation colonials, many of you are the children and grandchildren of former war criminals and other Nazi and Fascist's fleeing Europe after WW2. Which is why you are all so incredibly racist and fanatical.
37 stick up your junta (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
@34

María Eugenia Estenssoro is a Bolivian-born Argentine politician, journalist and activist for women's rights. She represents the city of Buenos Aires in the Argentine Senate.
38 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
36 Racist pal, We don't claim to be British, German, Spaniard, Italian nor anything else, we are all Argentineans. However the handful of islanders born on Malvinas claim to be British and at the same time when is convenient to them they want self determination.
Ok then, get your self determination in Britain, after all they consider themselves British.

You and others always talk about the Germans and Argentina, did you ever visit Chile or the US?
“German Americans are citizens of the United States of German ancestry and comprise about 50 million people, or 17% of the U.S. population, the country's largest self-reported ancestral group”
Go tell that to the Americans.
39 Islander1 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
Marcos- you can never come with a new angle can you? Same of dirge every day-week-month and year! Wonder you have not yet got Chagos into this topic title!
So what if our current Governor was not born here/ Ask yourself- are the Governor Generals of Australia, NZ and Canada always born in those countries?
Our overnor is the Queens repersentative and the TITULAR head of Govt - he has no vote in any Govt meeting to do with Islands Internal and dailyAffairs- only when it come to Foreign and defence affairs - that is beacuse we gave up and moved on from being a Colony as you know several decades ago!
If your side took over and we were rules from TDF(albeit we might be allowed one or 2 deputies there) and from BA as regards national affairs we would indeed go backwards in our civilization and benome again a 19th century style Colonial place ruled by a Colonial Argentine Govt we do not elect nor want!
There a few more than a handfull of us - abd you know it! You also know that first and foremost we are Islanders - a bit like Welsh,Northern Irish and Scottish folk - then after our own identities we are all British .
You know damn well that we could not go Independent with a large aggresive nation (yours) next door claiming our land! We need a big brother to defend us - he is called Great Britain.
Are you going to tell the people of St Helena to leave their homeland of many generations and go to UK just because they are also British?
40 Monty69 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 04:48 pm Report abuse
34 Marcos Alejandro

Wow, you mean there's actually a website we can go to that tells us where MLAs came from?
Pillock
Who gives a stuff where the governor worked before he came here? Apart from you, that is.

And we don't 'claim' to be British. We are British. What part of that are you finding hard to understand? The Australians were British, before they gained independence, so were the New Zealanders, etc

We are British Falkland Islanders. Perhaps one day we'll just be Falkland Islanders. Nothing to do with you though.
41 claudio_laplata (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:16 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
42 Karel de Pauw (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
So, I 'Christina' has offered to restart direct flights from BA to Stanley. Well, if I was a Falklander I'd say thanks, but no thanks. You may never get off the ground if you booked a flight with her and her cronies. During the month or so that I spent in Patagonia last November I repeatedly had difficulties getting fuel for my car. In some towns there was nothing - even in tourist spots! - and in others you could get some if you were prepared to pay much higher prices to hoarding (absentee) estancia owners or local officials! In El Chalten I had to bribe the fire brigade for fuel which reduced the wife of my landlord to tears of rage and shame. But nowhere while driving through northern Chile - even in very remote places - did I have problems tanking up.
43 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:33 pm Report abuse
@27
Remember it's not up to you to decide it. First it's LAN which in the case of this hypothetical offer would have to accept. Then we approve it. Then you have to approve it. But by no means you can force LAN wheter to cancel or cancel a flight or not.

@31
Well, it depends on interpretation mainly. Our government could easily take the stance that you are the regional British government. That way they can negotiate. I mean until you are not full independent you are not full independent and you are still British.

For propaganda sake they would do well under the regulations and even better.

As long as the flight makes profit it stays. The problem would be when it doesn't make profit anymore. As an example, another tax for all flights in Argentina would make LAN loose more than they earn with this one.
44 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:33 pm Report abuse
Monty, Islander1, You are having a hard time to convince Britain what make you think you can convince anyone else?

“You know, of course, the Malvinas Islands - everybody knows they belong to Argentina.
“So please do not blame the British people. We know the islands belong to you.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9119100/Morrissey-British-know-the-Falklands-belong-to-Argentina.html
45 stick up your junta (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:57 pm Report abuse
Chinese are 'subspecies' claims Morrissey
www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/7980688/Chinese-are-subspecies-claims-Morrissey.html
46 honoria (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:04 pm Report abuse
@ 43 Juan Stanic
It would most certainly be up to Falkland Islanders to decide which airlines do and do not operate inour airspace. Frankly I am astonished that it has taken Argentina so long to come up with the idea of a thrice weekly airlink. Think of all the tourists and oil rig crews and fishing boat crews thatmight have used it .... if you had done it with any genuine interest in peaceful co-operation and commercial development. Too late now.
47 Anti-Fascist (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:37 pm Report abuse
38 Marcos Alejandro

I wasn't talking about German's. I said Fascists and Nazi's, most of Europe had them. For example Croatia, Bulgaria, Austria, Ukraine, France, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the list goes on.

Ancestral groups is a misnomer, people do not migrate and just marry into their own clans and nationalities, although this is often the case with first and second generation.

Take the Kennedy's for example: it is generally accepted that their family is Irish ancestrally, however the Kennedy name is itself a Scottish surname and the Kennedy clan have married into English aristocratic families, Scottish nobility and American families. The idea that you can still call them Irish is being stupid. However, you can drawn the conclusion that America is a home for colonials, as so many people look to their family's ancestry, rather than to America for their sense of identity. Read any American biography and the first segment always deals with ethnic ancestry. The same can be said of Argentina, which has been the home for millions of European colonists, up until today.

Likewise Australia, go to any Australian home and the likelihood is you will find at least one 1st generation migrant.

German's are not the largest ancestral group in America, the British are but are broken down into English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish. Also in the case of the United States, people reference post 1850 migration, as pre 1850 migration is often unknown. A Mormon survey recently concluded that the vast majority of American claim British ancestry as they hold the largest database in the world on the subject of ancestry they should know.
48 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
@47 I'm not mormon because i like 'hot drinks'. I especially like tea, oh and dancing. The Osmonds can hold a tune though.
49 anti-fascist2 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
And lets not forget the other countries where Nazi's and Fascists come from or were recruited from into the Axis war machine - Spain, Italy, Belgium, Holland, Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Portugal, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, Germany.

Their country of choice to move to when their dream collapsed was Argentina.

And it was the Argentine fascist group AAA that was recruited by a fascist Argentine Peronist government under Eva Peron in the 1970's and its successor a fascist military junta to help their brave military dispose of the tens of thousands of young men and women and their children who had been identified as leftists.

Ah Argentina - not a country with a fascist history? What planet are you on?

Argentina is re-known as one of the most, probably the most nationalistic nations on Earth, a nationalist fostered by Peronism, used alongside socialism to harness the nation to the leadership, who are in turn harnessed by the corporations, most of them owned by outside interests.

Grow up Argentina. Nationalism is used to sucker people and you're all being suckers! We can get over how stupid you all are.
50 Anti-Fascist (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
44 Marcos Alejandro

ah here we are, educate yourself Marcos and stop being a nationalistic zombie - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Anticommunist_Alliance
51 claudio_laplata (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:07 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
52 Marcos Alejandro (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
50, Thanks for the 35 year old news.
How old are you? Ten?
53 briton (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
Mormon claim the largest database in the world,
Its called the [IGI]
Or International genealogy index .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
as for CFK
she quoted ten points,
Well number one has backfired, and number two is backfiring now,
next. Number three .
54 JORGE1982 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
...“a deeply cynical political move designed to suppress increasing worldwide criticism of Argentina’s extremely aggressive “Malvinas” policy targeted at a community of 3.000 people.”...

What a lot of bullshit!!! Is UK the one with increasing worldwide criticism about this issue! this squatter clown seems not to live on this planet!
55 Brit Bob (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:10 pm Report abuse
@8 Marcos

George Galloway. Nor even an MP anymore. Left wing, a supporter of Chavez, Cuba, and Saddam what a catch.
56 JORGE1982 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
@18 Instead of wrong interpreting argentine people in La Nación, Perfil or Clarin about the government, you should pay attention to the votes CFK got the last elections. Those three newspapers are against the government since 2003, but people don't, that's why she won the elections with 54% of votes. A record in our democracy since 1983.
57 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:37 pm Report abuse
@56
What's the problem in them being against? It's freedom of expression. If it's bad that newspaper are against her so are those in favour of her.
58 JORGE1982 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
@57 read the @18 statements again. You don't understand what I meant!
59 Karl101 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
54 JORGE1982

Nice that you remember 1982, the year when an Argentine fascistic military junta, with the blood of tens of thousands of their own citizens on their hands, invaded the Falklands, in violation of international law, the wishes of the islands population and British sovereignty.

Do you also remember what happened in 1982 Jorge? Or wasn't you born then? You lost.

Number of countries around the world that was on Argentina's side in 1982? Zero.

All those nations that must have realised you had a valid claim must have had a relapse. Maybe you've been drinking too much of your own governments cool aid and fell down a rabbit hole? Because you seem to have lost your grasp on reality.

falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
60 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
@59
“Number of countries around the world that was on Argentina's side in 1982? ”
Peru will like to have some words with you.
61 Monty69 (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:03 pm Report abuse
43 JuanStanic
We are perfectly well aware that you can deny flights from a third country innocent passage across your airspace. And we know you can blackmail Lan. You've done it before and you'll no doubt do it again because that's the type of people you are.
All I'm saying is that the 'option' your government is considering is not an option at all. We would never agree to something so totally against our interests, and you can't do it if we don't agree.
62 JuanStanic (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
@61
Two different matters here. Government and people. Not the same. This government works this way. Never said I supported them, nor does 100% of people here.
I know it's not an option at all, all I was saying is what I thought CFK wanted or expected do. But for the matter of sake, what would be an option, acceptable for both sides?
63 reality check (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
@1 “Hello again fairy prince its me again, the wicked wizard.”
How do you like my assessment of your foreign policy.“
Long ago in a far off southern fairy country lived a lovely princess. Every day the lovely princess would sit her people down and tell them magic stories, so they wouldn't worry about having no money, no jobs and no future. A story of a beautiful green island across the cold blue sea, where once the fairies lived and would live again.All would be well again and all their worries would be lovely and all would be well. However on this island lived a small tribe of pixies, now these pixies didn't know what was best for them, because far away on the other side of the world, in a cold grey castle lived a monster ogre, who enslaved the pixies. The lovely princess told the people not to worry, she had been casting spells with other southern princes and princesses and soon the ogre would leave the lovely green island. Then veryone coild move there and everthing would be lovely again. But what of the pixies a little voice said. The lovely princess said, ”don't concern youself with them, they can learn to speak fairy just like us, learn to live like fairies just like us, fly like fairies on the same side of the sky as us. Those that want to can go and live in the land of the ogre, those that don't can just dissapear like other bad fairies do. So all was in fairy land, then the lovely princess looked across the great green mountains at the land where the wood nymphs lived and her people sat down and she told them a story again. Oh it must be lovely to live in fairy land.
64 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:36 pm Report abuse
@59 “Number of countries around the world that was on Argentina's side in 1982?” - Peru and Israel

Peru gave them planes and weaponry. Israel were sending them weapons and people for training on civilian flights (missiles in the cargo section) (www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379008/A-deep-rooted-hatred-British-How-Israelis-armed-junta-Falklands-conflict.html).

There is even an epetition if you want to sign it to get the government to question the israeli ambassador (epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/28914)

Please bear in mind though that mentioning any of these things, including their support for argentina, will get you labelled as an anti-semite.
65 reality check (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 11:05 pm Report abuse
Nice way of paying the Isrealis back for their support, allowing Iranian terrorists to get off scot free with assassinating Isrealis in Argentina. Expect the Kinesit will be falling over themselfs to support them again, not.
66 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 02nd, 2012 - 11:31 pm Report abuse
@65 The former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Ovadia Yosef said to popular support, “Goyim [gentiles] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” then he added ”Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi [masters] and eat. That is why gentiles were created,” so we' 'donkeys' are technically not allowed to say anything negative about Israel giving weapons, information and training to the Argentinians or using British passports to shoot people in Dubai Hotels. That would be anti-semitic and you'd be called a nazi.

(source: www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782)
67 brit abroad (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:00 am Report abuse
Morning All! Nice to see youve all been winding each other up in the traditional manner! I thought id try and lighten the mood:

I had an argument with a girl I know last night. She was saying how that it's unfair that if a guy f@#ks a different girl every week, he's a legend, but if a girl f@#ks just two guys in a year, she's a slut.

So in response I told her that if a key opens lots of locks, then it's a master key. But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then it's a shitty lock.

That shut her up.
68 Ernie4001 (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:12 am Report abuse
Obviously it´s an economic move of CFK betting on some price advantages to make the islanders buy argentinian stuff, but what she doesn´t want to realize is that price is not the main interest as some argentinian bloggers here can say the matter is QUALITY thing difficult to find in any argentinian stuff, unlike what is currently found in Chile sometimes at the same price or even lower.
69 Tim (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:19 am Report abuse
36 Anti-Fascist (#) I think you will find that Marcos Alejandro is in fact David Adam; see one of his previous postings:
90 Marcos Alejandro (#) Brits in Malvinas are very sensitive when they are told the truth, even with one of their own. Not wonder tourist prefer Ushuaia.

“Eight years ago I made a joke about the islands in an article for this paper. I soon wished I hadn't
As Guardian science correspondent, I was invited by the British Antarctic Survey to visit one of its research bases, a gruelling journey that involves transit through Port Stanley. In a preview piece I joked that ”by the time you read this, home will be a shack in a desolate, godforsaken land. Then I will leave the Falkland Islands for Antarctica.“
Public opinion eventually dictated that, while the rest of the party enjoyed dinner at the governor's house, I was dragged on to the radio to apologise.
Officially, the reason for the outrage was that my criticism could damage tourism”

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/shortcuts/2012/feb/12/offended-falkland-islands

Editorials and World View
David Adam
Op-Ed Editor
Following a degree in chemical engineering at Leeds University, David joined Nature as a reporter in 2000, and moved to the Guardiannewspaper in 2003. He rejoined Nature in August 2010.
d.adam@nature.com

See also: www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/jan/08/research.highereducation4
70 JuanStanic (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 03:02 am Report abuse
@68
Try some meat, vegetables, mate and then tell me. But well, if you only think in stuff like TVs, cameras and that, then yes.
71 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 10:31 am Report abuse
@70 has anyone ever compared the quality of argentinian meat and vegetables to the quality of falkland islands produce. I'm guessing in the falklands it's not all polluted, so the quality will be better.

Do they have chickens yet in the falklands? how come they have lots of land but no eggs?
72 Frank (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 08:25 pm Report abuse
1/yes but not enough
2/ same reason they don't have a brewery
73 Think (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
They don't even have a decent whorehouse!
74 Frank (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
I guess you would know about that sort of thing, Thicko
75 briton (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:19 pm Report abuse
this deal, like the rest will fall by the way side, and be forgotten abt,
76 lsolde (#) Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:29 pm Report abuse
@73,
Sanctimonious & prudish Squatter, showing his dark side.
You need to be led to the light, oh haughty one.♥
77 briton (#) Mar 04th, 2012 - 12:09 am Report abuse
decent whorehouse
texas has one,,,i belive lol.
78 Think (#) Mar 04th, 2012 - 05:57 am Report abuse
Number 76; no use in soliciting yourself ……
You are like an unripe Ackee…..
I prefer my fruit mature ;-)
79 fermin (#) Mar 04th, 2012 - 09:22 pm Report abuse
@ 33 Anti-Fascist:
“Other than the UK, Argentina and the Falklands, no one cares. All the silly games in the world are not going to deliver the Falklands to Argentina.”

Well, I don't think the same. Brazil doesn't want the UK near, and the world knows what the NATO and the UK means: WARS ARE BUSINESS. Invation, grabbing of natural resources, well... not so far from the fascism that your nik name here expresses to be against.

The cause of Argentina is also a Latinamerican one, and also the cause of all those nations for which this not-democratic veto power at the UN is not favorable.

Also a lot of british people themselves would like to know who is making money from the grabbing of natural resources and WHY is all that money not being invested in social care while the “security” and defense of the Malvinas Islands means a public effort for the UK.

You express dislike for fascism, but you relate it with the Argentinian Government, that is really far from that. It is a Government that lets immigrants study for free at our universities and gives them service at public hospitals, a government that promotes integration to another countries in stead of promoting xenophobia, a government that promoted the same-sex marriage and made it real, a government that promotes debates where all different types of voices can be heard, a government that fights monopolies. All this things go on the line of a Democracy that is growing strong everyday, and this is what a lot of foreign and even argentinian groups do not want.

So ...
maybe you are a bit fascist even if you think you are not... You are working for corporations, and the worst is that you are working for free, all they have to do is to sell you crap on TV... and lies about Argentina.

Be authocritic, the UK is the society accustomed to wars and death and invation, not Argentina. We don't want that and we couldn't do it even if we wanted.
80 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 04th, 2012 - 11:05 pm Report abuse
@79 Yes, in argentina you just want chauvenistic colonisation, cyclic economic collapse, no infrastructure and 40% of your population in abject poverty.

Can you tell us one positive thing that the kirchner government has done for long term prosperity in your country? Just one thing will do for starters.
81 fermin (#) Mar 05th, 2012 - 05:10 am Report abuse
80 GreekYoghurt: “cyclic economic collapse”¿? What are you talking about? We hadn't had any more crisis (by the way... they had a lot to do with foreign banks and corporations) since 2001. And we won't have one, our economy is as strong as never before.

This Government is expanding democracy, is putting its nose into things that Governments have never cared about before. Is bringing argentinian scientists back from Europe, has made the country a more equal one, it has supported same-sex marriages, it has implanted a social aid system so that poor families can send their kids to school. Nowadays every kid goes to school.

it has given organizations and small institutions the possibility to broadcast their ideas at the media (because the media used to be controlled %100 by one or two corporations).

It has made Argentina more independent, nowadays we do not owe almost anything to the world, while economies like the greek, italian, spanish have debts that are really huge.

This Government has said NO to George Bush Free Trade Commerce plans for Latinamerica, I can't imagine what would have happened if that had became true, we would be suffering the strongest crisis of our history probably and we would be giving our work for free to the USA.

This Government has made it possible to send repressors and military junta leaders to jail (those leaders who stupidly decided to invade Malvinas in 1982)

Argentina is still an un-developed country, but it is an example of democracy nowadays, a democracy that has a great value, because it is living in a country that it is still economically colonized...

Light shines brighter in the dark, no?
82 lsolde (#) Mar 05th, 2012 - 07:57 am Report abuse
very impressive, fermin
l guess Argentina is a paradise on earth.
lf everything is as great as you say, why then, do you want OUR small land?
And, no, it isn't Argentine territory despite the lies you were taught at school.
83 DJ56 (#) Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:29 am Report abuse
I never cease to be amazed by the extent of Argentinian hypocracy and self delusion, particularly in claiming to be the “victim” rather than the aggressor:

1. They are descended from European immigrants, just like the Falklanders. As such, they have no higher right as an “indigenous people”.

2. There was no indigenous population on the Falklands.

3. There was, on the other hand, an indigenous poulation in Patagonia.

4. Argentina invaded Patagonia in the 1870's/1880's and committed genocide against that population.
84 lsolde (#) Mar 05th, 2012 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
@83DJ56,
They don't like to be reminded of that FACT, DJ.
And when you do remind them, either it :-
1) Never happened & they've all got lndian blood.lol.
2) They trot out the British Empire's “misdeeds” in the past, totally ignoring what Britain gave to the world.
They lie continually. one lie compounds another lie.
They are so twisted that they couldn't lie straight in bed!
85 briton (#) Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:00 pm Report abuse
This Government has said NO to George
[that’s in the past ]

Argentina is still an un-developed country

You are correct,

, but it is an example of democracy nowadays, a democracy that has a great value,
[A democracy to you,, but denied to others, by you .]

because it is living in a country that it is still economically colonized...

[are you still part of Spain then.]

Light shines brighter in the dark, no?
[only until the batteries run out, is this not true . ]
.
86 brit abroad (#) Mar 06th, 2012 - 07:12 am Report abuse
Vermin is not worth reading.........always drivel!
87 Tim (#) Mar 06th, 2012 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
84 lsolde (#) How right you are!!! Which was the country to first recognise Argentine independence paving the way for more countries to recognise it (and the rest of Hispanic America). One small part of history which isn't mentioned very often is the Holy Alliance who disliked republics and were quite prepared to help Spain regain her lost colonies. It was the British economic power and the might of the Royal Navy that stopped this ever happening
88 lsolde (#) Mar 06th, 2012 - 09:54 pm Report abuse
@87 Tim,
They owe us for setting the scene for getting rid of the Junta.
Now l find out from your good self, that they owe us for shielding them from the Holy Alliance.
And this is how they repay us?
Ungrateful wretches.
What say you to this, oh haughty Think?
89 Think (#) Mar 07th, 2012 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
(87) Timothy.....

Isn't that your signature on that 82 letter to Lizzy?
90 Tim (#) Mar 11th, 2012 - 03:18 am Report abuse
89 Think (#) Quite correct.

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