Monday, March 19th 2012 - 06:54 UTC

Recalling the phrase “Argentines are crooks from the first to the last”

“You were right, or at least that is what Argentines I come across in the street tell me”, said former Uruguayan president Jorge Batlle. In effect Batlle became world famous in 2002 for his phrase describing the River Plate neighbours: “Argentines are a bunch of crooks, from the first to the last, from A to Z”.

Former Uruguayan president Jorge Batlle caught on tape while talking off the record

Ten years later in an interview with a local television channel Batlle said that just a week ago he was in Buenos Aires and “I was stopped by a young fellow who asked if I had been president of Uruguay and told me: you know? You were right”.

 “In a shopping mall in Montevideo I went through a similar experience, an Argentine gentleman approached me and also congratulated me”, said the Uruguayan leader.

The unforgettable statement was said by the president Batlle when following an interview the camera was left on and he was taped making statements “off the record”.

“Look here Argentines are a bunch of crooks from the first to the last, from A to Z”, said the Uruguayan president ten years ago.

But Argentines were disappointed and Batlle had to travel to Buenos Aires and publicly apologize (tears included) next to then Argentine caretaker president Eduardo Duhalde.

“I did so because presidents are not supposed to say those things and because my mother was Argentine”, said Batlle. Besides, “I was not a simple citizen, I was the president of Uruguay and the three million Uruguayans could suffer enormously with my words”, he added.
Anyhow “it was hard to apologize but I did it, and that’s it”, concluded the former president.

Nevertheless at the time he said those words public opinion polls in Buenos Aires overwhelmingly supported Batlle’s statements.
 

92 comments Feed

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1 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:25 am Report abuse
what a rubbish piece of journalism!
At least, mercopress is consistent in providing average to below average stories!

What was it this time around Mercopress? You could find a decent story so you dug this up from the past (10 years in the past) and tried to give a new facade to make it novel?

Keep up your poor work MercoPress
2 Doveoverdover (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:43 am Report abuse
@1 Not long to wait to 2nd Apr and another, even older, dug up story. At least he acknowledged and apologised for his error of judgement and rudeness.
3 Frank (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:54 am Report abuse
Saying you are sorry and being sorry are two different things.....

@1 it isn't a ten year old story... he has just been on TV and retold it.... you nong.

There are crooks in all countries but he is right... it is endemic in RG land.

The poor steal to live.....

Tradesmen do second grade work for top dollar ( I have been told they aren't picking on the gringos... they dud their own as well.)

You are handed a written warning at Ezeiza telling you not to take the taxis because sharp practice is so common.

If you find a decent tradesman he will want either cash or US$ paid into his New York account... he isn't stealing from you he is stealing from the government by dodging tax.

Prefectura officers will pocket any cash 'fees' they can extort from you.

And of course the government leads by example... any word yet on where the $2.5 billion of Aerolineas Belgrano Malvinas money went?

Not to mention land theft..........

Sorry Tobias... RG = Thief
4 brit abroad (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:59 am Report abuse
helber doesnt like it....awwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

If i remember correct you have complained before about the jounalism on here, so, here is an idea! Stop reading it then. This will also save us from having to listen to you boooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring posts!

See everyone happy:-)
5 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:07 am Report abuse
LatAm LatAm LatAm!!

How does that Aussie soap song go?

Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours....

Chuckle chuckle
6 J.A. Roberts (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:08 am Report abuse
Keep reading Mercopress Helber! Even if the truth hurts...
7 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:31 am Report abuse
lads, one thing is for us to be on opposite sides of the street when it comes to the issue of Malvinas. A whole different story is for you to criticise me for criticizing what for all purposes is biased and poor journalism.

Let's try and lift our game and engage as gentlemen
8 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:54 am Report abuse
7 Did Jorge Batlle say it or not? 10 years later, did he have an interview in which he was asked about it or not?
9 Frank (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:03 am Report abuse
Helber, Its not biased and poor journalism.... its coverage of what an ex Uruguayan president thinks of his neighbours..... doesn't get much simpler than that...

Note that I engaged you as a gentleman... and didn't call you a *** or anything.....

Just an aside.... on the paternal side I'm the youngest child of the youngest child in what was a largish family..... and I'm no pup....
My oldest aunt - born when Queen Victoria was still on the throne and Bismark was still drawing his pension- spent time in Argentina as did her eldest son... they thought it a truly bonzer country.... it probably could be again if the people could ever purge the corruption and sort out the government.... good luck
10 bigron (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:17 am Report abuse
I have lived in Buenos Aires on and off for many years.
Porteños are mainly crooks; the rich are worse than anyone esle; the Recoleta set especially, who seem to have gottten away with 'blue bloody murder' for years and years, they are the worst of the worst. Unfortunately, Porteños make up a huge percentage of the population. It's just like little Southern Itlay, apart from the Spanish. I have been affected by their lies, cheating, theft and more, for many years - but ARGENTINES generally - NO - the wonderful folk from the interior are very different, maybe not the Penguin and the black widow from La Plata, there's always exceptions, people and places, Mendoza is one, and lets not forget ther police, the judges, and the corrupt politicos who are currently robbing Argentina blind - AGAIN - AND - printing money???!!! Jeje Well that's a new one, even Menem did not manage to get his crooked hands on a printing press. Well done Boudou, but remember Maria Julia - she thought her connections would protect her - you like her have been earmarked for the crapper, they are going to throw you to the wolves - La Campora is calling for your head!!
11 J.A. Roberts (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:22 am Report abuse
You make a lot of assertions about this article Helber... biased, poor, rubbish, etc. but you conveniently forget to explain why you think this. That's something a gentleman would definitely do. Make a case for his assertion and back it up with facts and reasoning. I give you 0/10 for gentlemanly conduct. Please try harder.
12 Frank (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:25 am Report abuse
@ 10 My experiences mainly involve BA.... I think my aunt and cousin were inland somewhere.... I must go to Mendoza one day.... it may be a good thing to do....
13 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:47 am Report abuse
I have been dealing with RGs for years. When I first started doing business in BA I got rooked. The first couple of contracts were written very poorly and since I am American I held up my end and since they are RGs they didn't.
I took me a couple contracts to learn you have to have them written in English ( Spanish is too grey of a language for business contracts w/1 word many meanings), get your $ upfront and don't pay for anything until you take delivery in US (if exporting).
Also if you try to be polite and accommodating they think you are weak and stupid because HONOR is not a concept they understand. After awhile I learned to scream, bang on the table, call them every name in the book and eventually I got what I wanted. It was just too tiring and not worth the effort (in depreciated pesos).
I would never do business there again and with the looks of the FDI no one else will either.
There is a trade delegation coming to USA next week. I may go to the meetings just to hear the lies. Funny they are coming just as they are losing whatever remaining trade benefits they received from the USA. It seems strange and smells of desperation. How can they come to promote business when they are restricting capital flows and nationalizing industries. Gosh they are dumb.
BTW even RG gov't officials are whispering Peso $5.8 by the end of the year. I wonder if that really means $10-14. Watch out below this is going to be hard landing.
14 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:21 am Report abuse
yeap you've been harping that tune for the better part of two months now yankeeboy.

“Watch out below this is going to be hard landing.”

So far you've been wrong!
but 'Merikans are renowned for being both ignorant and stupid.

You don't seem to be the exception.

carry on sepo
15 Frank (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:36 am
Comment removed by the editor.
16 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:46 am Report abuse
Uuuuuhhhh...
Helga.

How cruel Frank, how cruel.
I think I might lose some sleep over that one.. *facepalm*
17 Frank (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:49 am Report abuse
Sorry.... typo...but watch out for them face palms.....
18 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:56 am Report abuse
When he said, “Argentines are a bunch of crooks from the first to the last, from A to Z”, he's pretty much got it spot on. If only he had the Kahunas to stick to the statement.

Shows quite a lot of alignment with what's being suggested on these comment boards really.
19 wesley mouch (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:59 am Report abuse
Truer words were never spoken. And the Chief crook is CFK.
20 ElaineB (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:59 am Report abuse
@10. I agree there is a big difference between the porteños and the rest of the population. That is probably why most of Argentines from the rest of the country hate the porteños. Isn't it true that immigrants were sent to certain parts of the country depending on their nationality? I am guessing the Italians dominated BsAs and imported their work and trade ethics with them. (On the plus side, their love of life and having a good time).
21 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:03 am Report abuse
@20

you are seriously ill-informed dear regarding immigrants and Argentina.
A most precursory reading on the topic would immediately highlight the significant number of Italian migrants to such provinces such as Santa Fe. In fact, in relative terms, the city of Rosario received more Italian migrants than any other city in the world (let alone Argentina).

But hey, don't let facts get in they way of a generalisation.
22 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:04 am Report abuse
14. All economic indicators are pointing down even CFKs! 2012 gov't prediction is 3-4% growth (but really it's -2% so far) and 25%+ inflation (probably closer to 35%).
BTW I just saw that more than 1/2 of the Legal WORKING population in BA make $3300 pesos a month @ 5.8/U$ that's U$568 a MONTH! You can't even keep yourself clean earning that!
Look up “Stagflation”, high inflation coupled with very low or negative growth. That's what you have in 2012 who knows what will happen in 2013 but it's not going to be good.
23 lsolde (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:04 am Report abuse
@14 & 16 Helber,
Helber, my lad, seppo is not a very nice word.
Just in case you didn't know.(not trying to be sarcastic, friendly advice)
lf you use it to our American friends & they know what it means, you could be in for some physical pain.
Best to leave it out of your vocabulary. lts not in mine.*smiles*!
24 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:09 am Report abuse
@20 and their terrible greasy hairstyles and curious clothing and fashion shoes.

@21 The underlying reality of this is that they brought the mafia with them, which led to the framework of business interaction and 'protection rackets' that exists still in Argentina today.
25 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:11 am Report abuse
@22 sure thing mate. You keep harping that tune. Eventually you'll be right.

Much in the same way that if you say that in the future you will die, I will also be right.

stagflation you say? You really have not got a clue but, hey. don't let that stop you harping.

Meanwhile, Europe and the USA are doing wonderfully well. In fact, they've been cracking it for the better part of the past 4 years.

@23 thanks for your advice. Interesting you didn't find Frank's (comment number 15) use of the word d1ckhead alarming!
Nevertheless, thank you
26 LuisM (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:11 am Report abuse
@13 yankeeboy ”Also if you try to be polite and accommodating they think you are weak and stupid because HONOR is not a concept they understand. After awhile I learned to scream, bang on the table, call them every name in the book and eventually I got what I wanted. It was just too tiring and not worth the effort (in depreciated pesos).”

Indeed, many Buenos Aires' inhabitants behave this way. Not even 50% perhaps yet it is very confusing for businessmen from the rest of the world.
27 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:15 am Report abuse
This article is in the spirit of reflective journalism on the anniversary of 'great' events;
30 years after TFW,
10 years after a presidental statement that the Argentinians ware a bunch of crooks.

These are 10-year-benchmark reflections.

Has Argentina become less a bunch of crooks in the intervening years since the Great Default?
Corruption?
Mendaciousness?

No,
I believe that the jury has returned the verdict, and the original judgement stands.
28 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
@27

thank you for that audacious interpretation of this journalistic piece.
29 rebeldenacion (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 12:02 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
30 ManRod (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 01:08 pm Report abuse
it's interesting to know the reason, WHY he retracted from his sayings... he makes very clear, that the reason why he did, was because he was a representative of 3 million Uruguayans, which might feel the consecuences. But it seems he did not personally regret what he said, he really meant it...
31 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 01:18 pm Report abuse
@30 What is there to regret?

It's the truth.
32 tobias (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 01:59 pm Report abuse
@13

Why do you worry so much about Argentina? Have you checked out your own country? I did some digging. Here is the” summary:

According to US conservatives:

- The USA is in steep decline in prestige/politic
- It is not respected in the world
- It is a debtor nation at the increasing mercy of the Asians
- It is an oil drugged nation dependent on the Arabs
- The government is LYING about statistics ranging from unemployment (they claim it is really at 20%), debt (they say it is higher), and government deficit reduction (growth in spending is deceitfuly called cuts when the actual spending still goes up)

This is what American leftwingers say:

- The middle class shrunk by 25% in since Reagan
- The top 1% earnings up 400%, the median 50% earn less today than in the 1970s
- 50,000 die a year from preventable disease (no health insurance)
- American veterans die in collapsing military vet hospitals
- The US is a plutocracy run by corporations

This is what ALL Americans say:

- The country has been on the wrong track for over a decade
- 3 in 4 think their children will be worse off than themselves
- All American politics is crooked, corrupt
- Congress approval 12% (12!!!!)... in fact the ARGIE slogan from 2001 “que se vayan todos” has been adopted by both right and left: KICK'EM ALL OUT!!

This is what OFFICIAL statistics say:

- A majority of American young adults must return to live with their parents (lack of job, or no credit for buying home)
- poverty is 16% but children poverty is 25%... 1 in 4!
- US dollar in weakest period in 100 years since 2001

And then there are the symbolics: USA can no longer put men in space, every major city has stretches of vacant neighborhoods, smaller towns in the middle of the country are wasting away (I watch German/French tv and saw this). Even immigration into the USA down by a THIRD. A record of Americans are considering leaving for work elsewhere. And deadly shootings in offices/schools remain the norm.

The word: BIG DECLINE
33 DJ56 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
~25

“Meanwhile, Europe and the USA are doing wonderfully well. In fact, they've been cracking it for the better part of the past 4 years.”

At least we know we have problems: US and UK economic statistics are all too accurate, whilst Argentina's economic statistics are a work of fiction, dictated by Mrs K's regime. And to deflect attention, Mrs K just feed a bit more opium to the people, by stoking up the national delusion over the Falklands.
34 tobias (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 02:09 pm Report abuse
@33

Most Americans do not believe their government statistics. I found this out this weekend, I can provide sources. Shocking but true. They believe they are hiding unemployment and outright lying about debt and spending.
35 ptolemy (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 02:25 pm Report abuse
@34
Most people from other countries will always compare. And,.. the US has it's own share of problems, “Shocking but true.” But, if the US for example, had the same problems as Argentina,..there would definitely be a coup or already have been a coup.
36 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
13 Re comments by 32

It sounds like you should come and live in the Falklands.

- Our economy is growing
- We have very little unemployment (in fact, lots of us have more than one job or business)
- We have a democratically elected, accessible and transparent government
- We have first rate medical and educational services
- Our government is running the economy in a healthy surplus with solid reserves
- We have extremely low crime figures
- We have lots of space to expand (population density is only about 2 people per square mile)
- We have very little pollution
- Our roads have no traffic jams
- Most people live within about 5 mins from their work
- We have some of the most spectacular wildlife living right on our doorsteps
- With a hydrocarbons boom around the corner, we are a great place to invest

We have a pesky neighbour but who doesn't have one of those and being a British OT we feel secure about that.

It's depressing listening to everyone on here from Argentina, USA and the UK trying to convince each other how crappy the other's country is.
37 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
@34 Apparently it's an open secret that KFC even bullies McDonalds into selling their Big-Mac at half the value of a quarterpounder just so that she can skew the Economist's Big Mac Index. That leads McDonalds to put the Big Mac into very very small letters on it's menus so it exists and is sold, but no one buys them. Having that level of statistical management just makes it hilarious.

@36 What's obesity like in the Falklands? I see you don't have a McDonalds in order to be on the index.
38 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
32. We are still by far the richest and most powerful country in the World and that will not change in any of our lifetimes.
We have our problems of course but I have the ability to live anywhere in the world (and I have) and I always end up coming back to the USA. Our poor national identity and psyche are a direct reflection of a hated, weak and feckless leader who hopefully will be gone this year. Just like when Carter was president everyone thought the USA was in decline, that our time was over, blah blah blah then along came the great Reagan and all was well again. Don't be too quick to count us out yet. We still have the highest gross immigration than any other country in the world and people literally risking their lives to come here so there must be a reason right?
39 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 03:29 pm Report abuse
37 Greek

I don't think we've been spared from the worldwide increase in obesity levels. Like most places, we now do far less physical activity and although we don't have a Golden Arches, we have other fast food outlets and the freezer sections of our supermarkets are full of the same processed crap as anywhere else.

38 Yankeeboy

I love The US and I think there is little wonder Americans are so proud of it. Whenever I am over there, and that is often, I just love the lifestyle. Whether I'm at a ball game eating a hot dog, boating with friends, chilling out in the suburbs around a barbecue, shopping, driving on one of your marvellous interstates from one state to the other, taking the kids to a theme park or walking in one of the national parks, I just love it and it is a place I know I could easily live.
40 yankeeboy (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
39. I have found that when people hate the USA it's most likely because they were denied a travel visa.
What they don't get is even our poorest people live better than their middle class. If you are in your late 20 early 30s and are middle class in the USA you probably own your home, car, eat out 2-3x week and travel 1-2x year. In Arg if you are middle class in your late 20s your probably still living at your parent's home, maybe have a car, most likely still working your bachelor's degree and can only dream to travel outside of the country. The life expectations are totally different and they don't get it because they don't know any better.
41 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
40 Yankeeboy

I totally agree with you. I went to stay with people in Argentina many years ago as a student. I was told by the college that the family I was staying with was middle class so, also being middle class, I was looking forward to it. I packed my tennis racquet. When the taxi driver pulled up at the address I thought he'd made a mistake. My hosts lived in what I would regard a block of council flats and they certainly weren't members of a tennis or any other sort of club. It was real hand to mouth living.

Don't get me wrong, they were and are still lovely people and I am sure that they ARE middle class but it taught me a valuable lesson as a youngster.

The middle class home I grew up in was on half an acre, it had four big bedrooms, two cars and a boat and we went on holidays every year.

It is all relative.
42 tobias (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
Yankeeboy,

You can say whatever you want. I can say, well Argentina is still the most developed nation south of Mexico... which is true. So when people here “praise” the pacific countries like Peru, Colombia, El Salvador, or talk about the growth of Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Mexico... their standard of living still is something no argentine wants to go DOWN to... just like you compare the USA with Argentina (per capita 40k vs 18k), so I compare Argentina to the average per capita of Latin America which is 10k. The distance from you to us is the same from us to them.

But that is not the point.

The point is you have been railing on Argentina week after week and I have said nothing of the USA, at some point you should expect me to make a counter-point to you. It's not a matter of me counting you out, I don't frankly care about who is a superpower or who isn't, that's for people with little self-accomplishement to fall back on their nationality (not saying you have, just explaining). In fact, I want you to do well, just I want all countries to do well because it means people and children do well.

Falkland Islands,

Mendoza has plenty of Falkland Islands, they are called NEIGHBORHOODS. I mean no disrespect, but 3,000 people can't be replicated in countries of over 2o million people (which is the threshhold of nations with large populations), 10-20 million being “medium”, 1-10 “small”, and less than 1 million micro.

But again good for you. I believe in local government instead of centralization.
43 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:22 pm Report abuse
42 Tobias

I'm just pleased I live in a good neighbourhood. I take what you're saying about scales but nonetheless, in our region, I live in the wealthiest place Per capita “south of Mexico” and luckily for you, if your figures are correct, you live in the second wealthiest.

We should both be grateful. :-)
44 tobias (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:26 pm Report abuse
Well, actually Barbados is wealthier than ARG per capita (and French Guiana and Puerto Rico if we include colonies) so we would be four or fifth then. But I don't care much for rankings except in sport.

ps - I was trolling with the term colony, so no attacks please.
45 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
Why can't we just put away the guns and share currant buns. We all seem decent enough people, having a conversation, wishing each other well.

So... why is it when we add 'a certain lady' into the mix, that we're all at each other's throats via keyboards?
46 tobias (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:36 pm Report abuse
I'm not at anyone's throat. I just fervently refute what is blatantly false.

If anyone here had a sense of fairness, they would admit I have displayed exemplary longanimity when my nationality and country has been attacked by all sides on every front and every issue, and very rarely fallen to clap-trap against other countries and only a handful of times to scurrilous personal slander.

I generally will not argue the ineptitude of the current government, and even that fact Argentina has been a piss-poor neighbor and abrogating agreements with shameful frequency. I would only suggest however, that the governments of your countries are no lemonade in the desert either, yes compared to “KFC” they seem angels, but that is one sad comparison to make then.
47 Conqueror (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
@1 Disappointed, half-breed? Perhaps you think the article is too timely? Is the comment not complete? How about “Scumbag argies are crooks and liars, from the first to the last, from A to Z.”
@7 Truth hurts, does it, half-breed?
@14 “Desperate, half-breed?
@16 Here's a tip, Helga. Roll that palm up and use it to punch your face!
@21 Still going with semi-white immigration then. Don't you let those ethnics in. Racism anyone?
@25 In the next few years, half-breed, you will try to invade the Falklands again. Every one of your invasion troops will be killed and we will then move on to modern ”decimation” where we leave 10% of your population alive to be slaves.
@32 Who cares? You will die, literally, first!
@34 The difference being that the whole world knows that argieland invents its statistics.
@42 Sorry, Uruguay is more developed than argieland. By the way, did you look up the smallest acceptable number of inhabitants for an independent nation? That''s right. There isn't one, pea-brain. But check out your options for the future. Next time you hold a census, your population may be 50!
48 The Falklands are British (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
46 Tobias

I enjoy and always read your posts and I tend to agree with everything you just wrote above. I can recall plenty of times when you took fellow countrymen to task on something they wrote. I too have recently let some on my side know that I was not too impressed with them.

I am finding it increasingly boring and pointless reading all of these posts and conversations though. There are plenty of posters on both sides now that I just don't bother with.

I am sure that you understand that it is nothing personal. :-)
49 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:51 pm Report abuse
the term 'False', is a part of epistemology talking about truth. Some say we all have a truth based upon our own perception and experience.

The Greeks believed in dialetics and debate, what we have here is a debate. Two fixed points of view, of which there is either a winner or a loser. Since there is no objective judge of truth, a judge in this case, then we will never determine what is False or True.

We will just keep shouting and shouting.
50 Idlehands (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
48 The Falklands are British (#)

Conqueror take note - he's talking about you - and deservedly so.
51 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 04:57 pm Report abuse
Technically, we could argue that there's as many truths as there are people, and one truly objective truth.

Number of truths = number of people + 1

That's discounting animals and insects. Kind of curious that so may people sign up to someone else's truth then, at the expense of their own.
52 rebeldenacion (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 06:13 pm Report abuse
Cristina Fernández de Kirchner the current disaster president of Argentina
and the other Argentina crooks are her vice-president, Amado Boudou, he is actually an owner of the company that prints money for the government in Argentina, a major conflict of interest, but he denies it, he owns the company in the names of other friends and associates. He is being investigated and surely will end up in jail where he belongs. Cristinas 2 VERY UGLY children, Maximo and Florencia Kirchner, are also very corrupt. Maximo owns all kinds of hotels and properties adn Florencia is a film student in New York and lives in a luxury Park Avenue apartment and is known for major cocaine use. Some of us who know her in New York remember how she always used to tell us how her parents have a bank account drawn on the Nation of Argentina and for her family money is no object. These 2 corrupt children of Cristina Kirchner are self proclaimed “militants”, they belong to 2 internal terrorist groups which Cristina Kirchner finances, “La Cámpora” and “Quebracho”. “La Cámpora” goes around to the poor shantytowns around the cities in Argentina and gives the poor people a bag of groceries, a sausage sandwich called “choripan” and $20 pesos to buy their votes. These people have no choice but to accept this as they are extremely poor and have no other hope. “Quebracho” is a terrorist group which Cristina Kirchner pays to protect her, they disguise their faces and go around shaking down businesses to get money and give back to the president. They are also responsible for drug dealing, robberies and murders.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTBAjfgHLyk&feature=relmfu
www.youtube.com/watch?v=azwWSN2pukk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvQw00SV-c
www.ripoffreport.com/government-worker/argentina-tourists-m/argentina-tourists-murdered-l-33f51.htm
www.ripoffreport.com/federal-government/cristina-kirchner/cristina-kirchner-cristina-kir-dc9b0.htm
53 LuisM (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:04 pm Report abuse
42 tobias “You can say whatever you want. I can say, well Argentina is still the most developed nation south of Mexico...”

Ego wise most likely. Are you excluding Brazil? It tops Argentina on everything.

“their standard of living still is something no argentine wants to go DOWN to...”
You must be taking about a small part of Buenos Aires. Most provinces are very poor.
54 Philippe (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
Oh yes, definitely, from A to Z, and from Z to A!

Philippe
55 MurkyThink (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
( 51)

The locusts poured their leafs..??
56 Brit Bob (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 07:57 pm Report abuse
The UNASUR solidarty front on the Falklands thrashed out and released to the press on Sunday has been broken today, Monday when HMS Montrose paid a protocol visit to the Lima port of Callas in Peru. The ship will remain there until the 26th March.

Tee he
57 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:01 pm Report abuse
I continue to be exercised by the sloppy writing and speaking – used especially here, on Mercopress.

An AMERICAN is a person originating from THE AMERICAS.

There are over 60 nations in TWO continents comprising The Americas – In the North 6 nations, the Caribbean 31 nations, Central 7 nations, and South 15 nations.

Can we agree to stop using the word ‘American’ to describe only those from the United States of North America
– this disenfranchises the Americans of the OTHER 59 nations of the Americas.

A Brasilian is no less an American than a person from the USA
- and its a pity that President Obama did not 'officially' welcome Presidenta Rousseff as a fellow American president.
58 rebeldenacion (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:10 pm Report abuse
This is how Cristina Kirchner gets her votes:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
59 zulu99 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:19 pm Report abuse
@57 Geoff, we gained independence as the United States of America in 1776. That's what we named our country in that year. We have been calling ourselves Americans for close to 236 years. We don't call ourselves Americans to disenfranchise anybody. Neither do we call ourselves Americans because we feel we're the only true Americans or any horseshit like that. It always kills me when people in South Americans get offended when we call ourselves “American”. We gained our independence before all of the South American countries. We weren't thinking back in 1776 “hey, we better start calling ourselves Americans so we get to monopolize it”. We're Americans. We've been Americans since 1776. We'll continue to call ourselves exactly that...American. Have a good one.
60 Helber Galarga (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
@ yankeeboy

What they don't get is even our poorest people live better than their middle class. If you are in your late 20 early 30s and are middle class in the USA you probably own your home, car, eat out 2-3x week and travel 1-2x year.

what a load of rubbish!

than bank owns the house and most likely the car too in 'Merika
And yes, you eat out 2-3x a week but you go to places like McKrap.

and the middle class fares well you say? Like the ones in the Bronx which Chavez had to supply cheap fuel to?
61 zulu99 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
@60 Dude, that's probably the lamest reply to a post I've ever seen. I've been from the northern extreme of Argentina to the southern extreme, lots of little towns like Calilegua, Barreal. Trust me, what yankeeboy says is true. The poor in Argentina would give parts of their anatomy to live like the poor in America. But please continue with your posts, they're always amusing. Your posts and where's the other ardent defender of Argentinian nationalism - Marcos? You guys are super. Which states in the U.S.A. have you visited to be such an expert on the country? You have been to the U.S.A. right?
62 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 09:34 pm Report abuse
OK, Zulu.
Let's all of us be Americans - all my Brasilian friends and family, you and your USA friends and family.......
What We Need Is A Great Big Melting Pot, Big Enough To Take The World And All It's Got.
Keep It Stirring For A Hundred Years Or More, To Turn Out Coffee Colored People By The Score.
The Poorest And The Wealthy, Weakest And The Healthy; If You Lump It All Together, Well You Gotta Recipe For A Get Along Scene......

And we all know that 'Americans' did not just happen in 1776;
Pre-Columbian Americans existed across the two Continents for some 11,000 years prior to 1776.
63 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
Can someone just tell me what happened to the $2.4 billion given to Le Camping Hitler Youth to update the Belgrano Airlines planes?

I've been asking for a few days now.
64 Malvinero1 (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
their standard of living still is something no argentine wants to go DOWN to...”
You must be taking about a small part of Buenos Aires. Most provinces are very poor.
DId you visited Salta,Tucuman,etc,Luis..Well they are booming....Houses,roads,enterprices.....Althougth I did not go to Formosa,Corrientes,Chaco...but the things are improving...
65 briton (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:36 pm Report abuse
Pre-Columbian Americans existed across the two Continents for some 11,000 years prior to 1776.

ah but did they call themselves american,
i think not.
66 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 19th, 2012 - 11:44 pm Report abuse
@64 Wow, houses and roads.
67 tobias (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 12:15 am Report abuse
Well anyway, very poor piece of judgment from Mercopress. Doesn't speak well of them.

How better is this news article than say something like:

“Pirate ships stay away! All Brits are pirates”
“Yankis go home! All yanks are junkies”
“Brazucas stay away. You are all trannies”
“Chileans are all traitors!”

There are some things no reputable news organization would report on, much less make it into a headline to “remember”. Ad hoc comments and popular stereotypes of nationalities are one of those things not to be reported on.

Mercopress: booked.
68 zulu99 (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 12:52 am Report abuse
Geoff, I like you man, I do. But, you missed my point. You and lots of South Americans clearly think that the United States is going out of its way to try to distinguish ourselves as the only Americans...as though we're trying to say we're the only Americans and that you can't be called Americans. My point is that for almost 236 years we've been calling ourselves Americans....it's in the name of our country. Do you expect us to just stop calling ourselves what we've been calling ourselves for that long in order to be politically correct so you guys aren't offended? Come on man. Just remember, we're not doing it out of arrogance or to try to say Salvadorans, Brazilians, Colombians, etc. don't live in the Americas. My wife is Chilena and I've explained this to her and her family and they all understand.
69 GeoffWard2 (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 01:09 am Report abuse
Hi 'Zulu' #69:

I know where you're coming from.

But, and with respect, your *country* is 'The United States of America', not 'America'.

My countries are 'Brasil' and 'England' - I am, arguably, 'American' and 'European'.
It's no big deal, I'm just a pedant.
70 Fido Dido (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 04:37 am Report abuse
Zulu99,

I also understand where you're coming from, but American isn't a nationality and the word Americans comes from the Europeans that pointed to the people in the New World. If you have a passport, you can read your nationality (nationality: USA...for USA Citzen).

Back to article, it's understandable that majority of the Uruguayan politicians are frustrated at their spanish speaking neighbor.
71 tobias (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 06:29 am Report abuse
Ouch...

www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/basics/story/2012-03-18/cnbc-150-thousand-a-year-to-live-comfortably/53548702/1
72 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 07:14 am Report abuse
So I see we eventually resolved that Argentinians are all in fact crooked and untrustworthy little toads. And under no circumstances should one engage an Argentinian in any kind of commercial activity because they'll not do what was agreed and simply try to take your company and all the stationary cupboard and fax machine, simply because they want to.

Does anyone else get the impression their lack of property law is similar to the culture of a romani gypsy?
73 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 11:29 am Report abuse
60. Whether they have a bank loan or not is irrelevant. Most of the population of Arg can not get bank loans to buy houses or cars. 1/2 the population works illegally and makes less than U$600 a month. It's kind of hard to buy a house when you can even buy soap to take a bath or keep your clothes clean. TEACHERS IN BA are fighting for $3000/mo about U$500 a month(by the end of this year) AS A RAISE!! AND THEY“RE CONSIDERED MIDDLE CLASS! They would be much better off coming to the USA to clean pools or houses. They would make more than in ARG W/ only 2 DAYS OF WORK! I'm guessing that is why there are so many RGs living here illegally instead of ”booming” Arg but just guessing.
74 DanyBerger (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 11:36 am Report abuse
@zulu99

“Trust me, what yankeeboy says is true. The poor in Argentina would give parts of their anatomy to live like the poor in America.”

Do you mean to live like this zulu99?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGxKdDinkKk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOvXs-Fk72s

Ha ha ha another Amexican Flag waver i guess.
75 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 11:37 am Report abuse
@73 What about that Arg guy who said that all Argies had houses and paid them off before they were 20 or some nonsense. The grim reality is they couldn't get a loan if they tried.

Middle class in Argentina is super poor. That's why they always have pictures of real middle class people in the Falklands who appear to be massively rich in comparison and they all get jealous, then greedy.

It's a good motivator for them.
76 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 11:48 am Report abuse
74. Have you ever been to Retiro in BA? Multi level slums surround BA an estimated 2 MILLION people live in them without proper sanitation, running water or electricity!! 2MM!!! I dare you to find that in any civilized country.
Wasn't your stupid Prez cheering the rising slums as a sign of the Arg Prosperity miracle? She is so far removed from reality it is scary as are most of the RG posters here on this board.
77 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 11:53 am Report abuse
@76 Having not been to the slummy areas of Argentina, do the people in those slums care about the Falkland islands? Are they all told to blame their issues on British colonialism?

Do these people not know that billions and billions of dollars of wealth is being 'lost' out of their country's coffers rather than being spent on 'social justice' programmes like social housing.

I've got no problem with 'nordic' socialism per se, I just find it funny when people get socialialism in name only, which is just basically abject poverty. Yet they still refuse to believe that they're getting screwed.
78 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
77. The people that live in the slums care about eating every day they don't care about politics. It is well known that during elections they are paid either cash outright or given air conditioners, washers or other appliances for their ballots. That is how CFK got elected the 1st time.
79 egarcia1970 (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 12:33 pm Report abuse
@78: “That is how CFK got elected the 1st time.”

And that's also how CFK got elected the 2nd time. ;-) The peronists love the poor; that's why they multiply them and do nothing to improve their situation. Without an impoverished, uneducated critical mass of voters to bribe and coerce into submission these fascists would never get elected because they're unable to get the vote of intelligent and informed people.
80 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 12:38 pm Report abuse
80. Obama and the democrats are trying to do the same thing here. They want to create a permanent voting underclass that only gets gov't handouts. Luckily I think the majority of the USA has woken up and will get rid of most of them this year. The polling is not good for them right now and I don't see how it gets any better by Nov.
81 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 01:18 pm Report abuse
Marx would suggest that the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie would get overthrown by the dictatorship of proletariat through constant revolution. So in these terms the politicians aim to throttle the level of revolution from the proletariat in order to keep their Bourgeoisie Governments in power.

This is a dangerous game for someone who wears naught but Christian Louboutin Shoes, who's daughter lives in a park lane pent house, and whose son managed to oversee the evaporation of $2.1 Billion directed at the national airline. Hardly the behaviour of the proletariat.

Hence she's using the cause of the masses 'Malvinas Argentinas' in order to retain the allegiance of the poor. Rather than spending money on taking them out of abject poverty, she wants them to stay in it.

Where's the world bank's $3 Billion going then?
82 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
81. Most direct payments to the population are in CASH! There is only handwritten tracking and the distribution of the cash payments are performed by local peronist “block” leaders. It is very easy to skim.
83 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
@82 It's still a lot of money to have disappear. Aren't the people in their congress or parliament asking simple questions like 'How come the fleet of planes hasn't been renewed?' or 'Where is the $2.1 Billion?'

Do they have absolutely no opposition in that country? It makes the mind boggle that the World Bank would then stump up another $3 Bil to be misappropriated in a similar fashion.

What makes the mind boggle more is that all the poor people sign up to this garbage existence.
84 tobias (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 03:52 pm Report abuse
@73

“It's kind of hard to buy a house when you can even buy soap to take a bath or keep your clothes clean”

You are so full of it. Fuck off you loser troll, an American talking about physical comeliness, what a laugh. No more diplomacy with you.

About the 2 million poor, yeah, we should have kicked out all the illegal immigrants a long time ago. If you removed the 3-4 million people that have migrated to Argentina from neighboring countries in the last 30 years (the million plus still illegal and those that were given amnesty in 1993, 2005, 2007, and with Patria Grande), poverty in Argentina would go down from 26% (which is on the high end of the private estimates) down to 18%. And about half of the “slums” would dissapear overnight.
85 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 04:39 pm Report abuse
@84 or you could have used some of those Billions of Dollars in misappropriated funds to build social housing rather than widespread electoral fraud.

Imagine what social housing would have done for the slums... electricity... water.. maybe even heating!!

I think Argentinians, rather than wondering why INDEC don't have statistics of massive amoungts of lost money, they should focus on getting really really really angry about some islands in the South Atlantic that they got kicked off in 1800s. Because that's really really relevant.
86 yankeeboy (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 04:53 pm Report abuse
84. So you think all the people living under poverty are immigrants? My my sounds like another period of time when blaming someone's religion on their country's woes was popular.
My point was how could someone dream of buying a house when most of the population makes under u$600 a month? You can't there is no hope the best you can do is maybe rent an apartment in a gross part of the city and try to keep you head above water. There is no way to have any savings much less disposable income you can barely keep yourself clean and fed. I stand by the statement unless you can prove it wrong.

Don't get upset with plain facts and simple math Toby.
87 tobias (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
Both. Use the billions of dollars thrown at Aerolineas over the last few years, and control immigration, and those that were given amnesty but commited a crime deported on the spot.

Though I don't believe in social housing. Allowing of land to build homes on, sure, like in the days of my grandparents who built their home with their hands.

The number of slums in Buenos Aires is nothing compared to Brazil, Mexico, let alone Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Central America, etc.
88 GreekYoghurt (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
@87 Therein lies the problem. Of the $2.4 Billion spent on Aerolingus Argentina between 2008 and 2011 to buy a new fleet of planes (all given to Le Camping) only 10% of it ever got to Aerolingus Argentina.

The other $2.1 Billion went missing, and is unaccounted for. Argentinian commenters all refuse to say where the money went even though they are mainly members of Le Camping.

So, no there will not be any social housing, or land. The only choice these people have is to build their home with their hands in a slum.

Sorry.
89 DanyBerger (#) Mar 20th, 2012 - 10:02 pm Report abuse
@Yankee boy
2M in Retiro Slum ha ha ha

Was not too much?

Only 70.000 and live there much better than yours.

What happen upset to see your shantytowns growing like mushroom everywhere?

Take a look again
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGxKdDinkKk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOvXs-Fk72s
90 lsolde (#) Mar 21st, 2012 - 04:58 am Report abuse
@88GreekYoghurt,
Have you ever heard a joke or a story that you didn't think much of?
But then, the more you thought about it, the funnier it became?
So it is with me, with your “Le Camping”!
l'm starting to giggle now everytime l read it.
Did you ever get a straight answer on the missing billions?
91 brit abroad (#) Mar 21st, 2012 - 06:19 am Report abuse
I speak for Greek as i followed up on it also.

No answers, except for :

malvinero - who didnt know anything about it! (no surprise there!
and I think it was tobais - who said that maybe it was spent on some secret weapon to be used against the middle easterners !!!!!!?????? (make what you want of that)

So no clear response to date!
92 lsolde (#) Mar 21st, 2012 - 10:48 am Report abuse
Thanks brit abroad.

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