Wednesday, April 11th 2012 - 17:04 UTC

US and EU considering WTO actions against Argentine ‘protectionist practices’

The US and forty countries which formalized a joint statement before the World Trade Organization complaining about Argentina’s trade restrictions are considering moving a step further and begin a “disputes settlement” process which could lead to an open condemnation if the administration of President Cristina Kirchner does not lift the protectionist network.

In March US Ambassador Michael Punke and forty other countries made a joint statement on Argentina’s trade restrictions

According to Buenos Aires daily Clarin quoting WTO sources in Geneva, “expectations are that it will be the US that presents the “disputes settlement” process since the White House was the main sponsor of the joint statement. The process could end with a formal condemnation of Argentina opening the way for commercial reprisals”.

In the March joint statement presented by the US and forty other leading countries the main complaints against Argentina included the non automatic licences system; the previous sworn statement registry to obtain the approval of an imports operation and the policy forcing companies to apply the ‘dollar-to-dollar’ mechanism which means they have to export a dollar for each dollar import.

Once the disputes settlement begins there is a period of consultations in which in this case Argentina must prove it has not infringed WTO rules, and if no agreement is reached a three member panel is named, chosen by the litigants or WTO Director General Pascal Lamy.

The panel has 180 days to reach a decision which can be appealed, but if at the end of the whole process it is contrary to Argentina, the countries which initiated the action can adopt commercial reprisals.

The joint statement was originally presented by US ambassador Michael Punke and sponsored by all EU members, Australia, Israel, Japan, Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey. The initiative was later joined by Chile, Colombia, Peru, China, Hong Kong and Malaysia. However no Mercosur member figures in the list.

The joint statement concludes saying that “despite the concerns described, Argentina continues to maintain these import-restrictive measures and practices, Argentina should provide a detailed written explanation of why in its view these measures and practices are consistent with WTO rules. Members reserve their rights to pursue this matter further”.
 

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1 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:10 pm Report abuse
“Once the disputes settlement begins there is a period of consultations in which in this case Argentina must prove it has not infringed WTO rules”

Oh, so the system is “guilty until proven innocent”?

I hope we get out of that tyrannical body ASAP.
2 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:27 pm Report abuse
'all EU members, Australia, Israel, Japan, Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey. The initiative was later joined by Chile, Colombia, Peru, China, Hong Kong and Malaysia'

So much for Peru, Chile, Mexico, Spain and everyone else support Argentina as various Argentinian posters have been proclaiming recently....
3 Pugol-H (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
Guilty or innocent, that is an impressive list of countries (as a % of the worlds economy!) to have pissed off all at the same time, on the same issue.

China is probably the most immediately worrying for Argentina, although none of this is good or even faintly winnable.

Be interesting to see if CFK & Co treat this issue with the same rabid nationalism as the Malvinas.

If they do, then the Islanders can probably put there feet up for the next few generations, as Argentina perforce will be busy with other things, like not starving.
4 KFC de Pollo (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:56 pm Report abuse
Hopefully this will bring down KFC's ridiculous government, although i suspect the next one will be just as bad
5 McClick (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
What an enourmous internal market Argentina has to squall.
6 briton (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
they will put all the blame on us,

ttt,, tells more uninteresting interests .
7 ChrisR (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
So! Argentina WINS AGAIN!!!!!!! With achievements like this the population will soon be bereft of everything they need to exist.

What a bunch of losers running the government. Pity somebody doesn't put a 0.22 rf lr hollowpoint bullet in their collective heads to give the country a new start.
8 Conqueror (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:33 pm Report abuse
@1 It's a club. If you don't like the rules, get out. Then suffer and die!
9 MurkyThink (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
$ (8)

Thanks for your advice..

Mennyivel tartozom ?
10 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
@8

It's a tyranny, so we'll leave. Nothing will happen just like when we kicked the IMF in the arse (non-bastard version).
11 Brit Bob (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
Another blunder by the current bunch of losers in charge of Argentina.
12 yankeeboy (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 07:09 pm Report abuse
10. If trade is blocked by 40+ countries who do you think is going to buy your SOY? Don't you remember when China held some SOY for a few weeks last year when CFK tried to hold some of their imports? CFK panicked and immediately backed down. Now times it by 40. ARG would be in a depression in less than a week.
13 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 07:27 pm Report abuse
@10 - TTT - so Argentina doesn't need the rest of the world, and you 'kicked' the IMF's but did you?

Well, tell you what, since you don't need the rest of the world, pay back all the loans your country took out from various governments and the IMF, and we'll suspend all trade in and out of Argentina. Then you and the rest of Argentina can be happy and spend eternity trying to scratch a living out of the few staples that you grow yourself, whilst being completely incapable of exploiting your own natural resources.

I mean North Korea has done so well on it's own - the people of North Korea are starving, but their Government doesn't care.
14 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
@12

But trade won't be blocked by 40 countries. We know that will never happened. Not only because it would be a world first in peacetime, but also because it is impossible to enforce, even within the “participant” nations. The measure would lose clout in no time because too many economic interests would oppose it in the participant nations. And in the meantime there is still trade with 160 other countries.

You guys can't get full trade prohibition against Iran, you are going to muster that against us? Live in the real world, yankeeboy.

@13

Argentina has payed off the IMF and World bank. So...

Argentina can get away with a lot of this because it produces 10 times the food it needs for it's population of 40 million. Since it is a world's breadbasket that could feed almost 10% of the world's population (4oo million), and since you need food to live, not only are we not North Korea which never could grow food on its own, but no country will block us from trading because of that fact.

When I mean isolationism, I don't mean all isolationism. You can be isolationist and still trade, I just don't want to deal with the arrogant likes of you, and those in the other countries of the world who think they are superior based on a passport.
15 Troneas (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
i wouldn't mind the the US and the EU protesting to the WTO if everyone followed the “rules”. But the truth is the WTO is a sham. It allows subsidies but it frowns upon import taxes. Argentina has not violated the non-discrimination nor the reciprocity principle of the WTO charter; nor has it elevated its imports tax beyond their declared roof.

The only thing they are making a fuss about is “transparency”. That is what it comes down to.

And its fair enough. If there is one thing I dislike about this government is their clarity in a wide range of issues. But what I do find rather revolting is the hypocrisy that stems from most of these countries and the WTO itself. Most of these countries are guilty of interfering with free trade one way or the other. Everyone knows it but the WTO - tailor made by these countries - accepts it.

The ‘dollar-to-dollar’ mechanism is brilliant, if you ask me. its one of the initiatives i thought was rather clever of this government. It doesn't directly violate any WTO convention if it were not considered to be arbitrary.
16 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:05 pm Report abuse
@14 - Well you either believe in isolationism or you don't, but as always you want it your own way, so you mean just partial isolationism. Where Argentina completely snubs the world, but expects the world to bend over backwards to help you.

Keep telling yourself that the world needs you and your resources, but there is nothing that Argentina produces that couldn't be obtained somewhere else.

Argentina's outstanding debts are currently estimated at US$ 2.8 billion, so no you haven't paid them all off.

Your governments stance on imports and exports will only delay the inevitable for a short time and then your economy will crash.

This is an interesting read:

www.iar-gwu.org/node/324

Oh and @15 Troneas the dollar for dollar inititiative is a stop gap measure that is doomed to fail as inflation in Argentina is already spiralling upwards at an alarming rate, and your banks can do nothing to regulate it as the government has tied their hands.

Argentina's economy is heading for major trouble and denying it's happening and burying your heads in the sand won't work for very long.

And what about Argentina's hypocrisy? Borrows money of people and refuses to pay it back, uni-laterally puts trade restrictions on imports, which is outside the the agreements made by ALL members of the WTO, even Argentina.

And think that pissing off some of the biggest global markets can only strengthen Argentina's position is absolute lunacy.

But as I like to say time will tell which of us is right, but I wouldn't lay odds on Argentina's economy lasting out the year if they continue with these types of policies.
17 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:11 pm Report abuse
Of course you could get almost everything from somewhere else, but be prepared to pay these days.

If corn, wheat and soy rise to records or near records just because of a minor drought in Argentina/Brazil, imagine if you took ALL of Argentina's corn, soy, and wheat off the market! And I mean all, a 100% drop in production in all of them, not just 2-3% in one crop.

You would have riots and civil discontent in most of the world in a matter of weeks as supermarket prices for staples TRIPLE.

Sure we would suffer, but so would many of you.
18 ElaineB (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:19 pm Report abuse
Trade = wealth and Argentina is desperate for money to come into the country. They need to trade and they need wealth. Trade creates power in other countries because you form bonds and influence through mutual need. The more isolated, the less influence a country has.

It is true that if Argentina becomes too difficult to deal with, or refuses to accept imports, the buyers will move elsewhere. The idea that Argentina is irreplaceable is a fools idea. And I doubt the young Argentines who are well aware of the products and lifestyle available to them elsewhere will settle for the limited produce available in an isolated country.
19 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:28 pm Report abuse
I don't like many of the measures, but they are better than borrowing money. That article @16, of course banks wants Argentina to settle it's debts. The writer is a BANKER. All she cares about is that there are people or entities that need to borrow. If there is not such a need, there is no banking industry.

You would think by now people everywhere in the world would see how harmful it is to borrow money to run a country (both developing and developed), so I would rather go through whatever not having access to capital markets means, instead of being an indebted country again at the mercy of the bankers. Never again.
20 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
@17 - so if sanctions are put in place the average consumer throughout the world will become worse off by a few cents or just won't bother buying these particular food items, but Argentina's economy is dependant on these exports, so who will be hurt the most?

Let me give you a hint, it won't be the rest of the world.
21 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
It's not a few cents, yes, you would probably stop buying such products... like bread, cereal, pastries, flour, etc. Secondary items, you know.

But of course Argentina would be destroyed, certainly. I'm a realist, I'm not a fool. But because I'm a realist I also know there will never be a total trade blockade of Argentina because you will never get even 5 countries to do it for any meaningful period of time, let along 40-50 indefinitely :)
22 Troneas (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
@18. Trade = wealth is a very broad statement that is pointless to be discussed without taking a close look at how the world trades. The principles of Adam Smith and Ricardo are all very nice on paper but when we look at the 20th century there has been a growing gap between the rich people and poor people, between rich countries and poor countries.

In the same manner I am not convinced that rich people ought to be protected because they produce jobs I am not convinced that “free- trading” in its broad sense makes everyone wealthier.

Free trade has not prevented Argentina from defaulting in 2001, nor it is preventing countries like Greece , Spain or Ireland from following the same path. The United States is living in their own deluded world where they keep on borrowing money from China to pay off their debts and to maintain their standard of living. But that cannot last for eternity.

The only mechanism most countries still have at their disposal right now to compete in world trade and not be flooded with foreign goods thus taking their economy into shambles is to depreciate their currency. Poor countries do not have money to subsidise and if they come up with other ideas to protect their outflow of money reserves then 40 countries go cry at the WTO.

Which is pathetic really. Because Argentina could depreciate its currency and become more competitive in trade again, reverting the huge deficit it has with the US and no-one could say anything about it - because its in its sovereign right to do so and no rules are broken.

So its sad that instead of fixing the whole system to make it fair for all, they cry about small details.
23 ElaineB (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
Until Argentina pays its debts it will remain an indebted country. The debts will not go away.

You talk about the money being 'the bank's money' which is convenient for you to make some anonomous institution the bad guy. The money the banks lent to and invested in Argentina came from pensions and saving of ordinary, hardworking people. They are the victims, not Argentina. Argentina is the bad guy for not paying back the money it took and spent.
24 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
TTT regarding your post @19 - you say you don't want Argentina to be indebted to the banks ever again, but your country still owns approximately US$ 2.8 billion. So not completely out of it's indebtedness yet then? Oh and refusing to pay back your debts means that no one in the world would risk loaning you any money, as you show yourselves to be a bad risk.

TTT regarding your post @21 - you'd be surprised what the international markets can do, when money is a prime motivating factor. Live in the belief that the world needs Argentina more than Argentina needs the world. And most, if not all, of the produce of Argentina is grown in other South American countries and Africa. No doubt they'd all be glad to get a bigger share of the market, therefore making more money for their respective economies.

But I'm sure they'll all put Argentina's interests before their own. :p
25 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
@23

I have a tear in my eye... not.

Aren't you all wealthy, prosperous, trilingual, and world travelling Elaine??

So what's a few billion lost, if it is so important then great nations with unlimited wealth like the UK and US *wink* can easily repare any damage done by Argentina's default.

You really have a basic problem Elaine, the “reality” problem. You don't live in reality, like many others here. The defaulted 2001 money is GONE, what part of that word is illegible?

When has an individual, company or country gone bankrupt and then still repayed 100% of the original debt?? LOL, think before you answer, it may be complicated.

hint - What is the point of bankrupcy if you have to pay it all back anyway?

ps - That also explains why the argie peso is not accepted (I'm taking a HUGE leap of faith in believe what you and yankeeboy say, actually, I'm not but I'm just assuming that is the case for my argument), everyone knows the BANKING LOBBY hates argie guts becaue they told them to fk-off in 2001 and 2004-2005. Argentina renegotiated debt their own way and they didn't like not getting a cut in the deal, so they have been sulking and pouting (thru the FT, WTJ, Economist), ever since.
26 you are not first (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
Truth Telling Troll,

I have to thank you for all the info you have summarized for “ Servants” readers.
What is England anyway? What does it produce or do besides sending the
Royal Navy to occupy territory that have been occupied before?

BP exploits and destroys nature thanks to these “ Servants” called UK citizen

I laugh at their comments about they wonderful ships. Walk in the streets of London at night and you will see million of homeless without food but England has a very powerful Navy does it ?
27 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:12 pm Report abuse
TTT, actually does make some good points although facts will clearly remain the same regardless of who was in the right or the wrong.

Until Argentina meets the commitments it voluntarily signed up to it will remain locked out of international markets and will always have a hostile audience.

If anything the Argentinian model is one for Greece, Ireland, Spain and possibly Portugal to avoid.

After over 11 years Argentina is still in terrible financial shape and cannot successfully compete in international markets. It you could argue isn't fair in some aspects as Argentina is still massively handicapped against other countries but then Argentina's wounds are also self inflicted.

The latest policies by CFK are absolutely and completely ridiculous, anyone who argues that creating international isolation, destroying all local relations in its region whilst still expecting support on the Falkland's issue is really nothing short of pure lunacy.

The economy is also quite obviously being massively mismanaged and will certainly lead to hardship of the decent hardworking population whilst CFK and her cronies become fabulously rich.
28 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
@25 TTT - so you think going bankrupt is funny do you? Well when Argentina has gone bankrupt, which appears more likely by the day, and the ordinary Argentinian citizens have lost their jobs, home, pension etc..and they are burning pesos to keep warm, because they won't be worth the paper they're printed on, I'm sure they'll appreciate your laughter.

And I'm sure you're going to have a good laugh when Argentine children have to rely on handouts from aid agencies for food and clothing, whilst your beloved President and her Government laugh all the way to their Swiss bank accounts.

If Argentina goes bankrupt, all foreign investment will stop, no one will lend you money, and like the Greek government (and these guys didn't go bankrupt just teetered on the verge) you will have fiscal polices dictated to you that you will have to keep to if you wish to keep international aid.

Yes, that's a lot to laugh about isn't it?

I'll give you even money on your beloved leader to be the 1st to leave the sinking ship.
29 Troneas (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
@23. Jeez. Please inform yourself before making such broad statements. I'm tired of these ignorants who know absolutely nothing coming in here with nonsense.

The debt can be traced back to the military government in the early 70s and the reasons for contracting the debt are many and whilst the Argentine government at the time has made mistakes - specifically with the use of that money - there are many more reasons as to why it has damaged Argentina and so many other countries as well.. Most of those reasons are many to mention here and go back to after WWII, Bretton Woods and how the monetary system was set up and the bullying from the US.

And NO. The money did not come from “ordinary, hardworking people”. The money came from the excess of petrodollars in the Arab countries.

Thank you and try again.
30 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
Argentina is living within it's means. It has borrowed 0 dollars/euros/yen/etc in the last 11 years. I think people should at least applaud that.

In the meantime the Europe, USA, UK, Japan have borrowed in that time over 21 trillion dollars. Good luck repaying that guys... (well, it is your kids that will suffer).
31 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
I think that is a obscuration of the truth Tobias.

Sure Western nations work on floating debt, we also have successfully ran that model and produced great wealth from it.

Argentina has proven its model doesn't work because it has no liquidity essentially as a base cause and when liquidity is required it either falls on very severe times or defaults, a very dangerous place to be indeed.

I actually do not like the Western model even if it has by in large proved successful. I think all current models are quite faulty but then I guess that is my view of capitalism which may strike you as odd when I reveal I'm a qualified Stockbroker.
32 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:44 pm Report abuse
The western model is not succesful nor different, it just works on a far grander scale of time because the lenders see you as the last resort. Eventually you will be severely impovirished because that debt has to be repayed or defaulted upon.

A dragonfly might believe the world is a beautiful place, it lived all 48 hours of its life in a beautiful sunny 15 degree winter warm spell... but those creatures that live longer must endure the cold rainy/snowy freezing days before and after that.

You may have had a confortable life because the “borrow now, pay later” model has been in the borrow phase in your lifetime, but trust me, your children and granchildren will suffer, they will live in the “pay later” phase (pay later for you, pay now for them).

Economics is economics everywhere, you borrow you pay.
33 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
Maybe Tobias or maybe not. The UK for instance is massively reducing debt and certainly is still a powerhouse economy with the ability to do so.

I personally prefer the tough decisions to reduce debt levels even as unpopular as they sometimes maybe to the general public that for the most part does not understand economics.

The Western model works only if it has a responsible government that keeps it in check but then I guess that is no different than any other model.

Having access to liquidity is most certainly a requirement in the modern economics otherwise you end up like Argentina is now reduced to more and more desperate measures to keep money in the country and balance deficits aggressively.

It is for that reason Argentina will have to leave many bodies like the WTO where its policies are in breach of the rules it has signed up to but I guess self protection counts for far more than being a part of a trading organisation that may increase trade by some margin.
34 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:58 pm Report abuse
@26 - I think you mean Britain not England, as England doesn't have a navy. It's like me constantly saying Patagonia when I actually mean Argentina. At least try to get it right.

In 2011 Britain exported £31 billion worth of good to the US alone, then we also exported to the rest of the EU, China and Commonwealth countries. So your comments are spurious and blatantly false. We also imported at lot of goods from our trading partners too, and unlike Argentina, we don't feel the need to lie about our financial status, inflation rates, or to impose ridiculous import tariffs.

@ 29 - the debt is Argentina's regardless of who was in power when the loan was taken. Your government, your responsibility end of, and your argument holds no weight on the world stage.

@30 - TTT. Denial, it's not a river in Egypt, it's the place where you live. As I have said before time will tell, but Argentina's time is running out fast. Oh and you haven't borrowed money for 11yrs, but it isn't through lack of trying. Argentina is seen as a bad risk, you refuse to pay back past loans, so no one is going to risk you defaulting in future loans.

And yet the financial hole your government is digging you into keeps getting deeper.
35 Stefan (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:03 pm Report abuse
Celebrations all around. The Argentinian campaign of aggression has finally ground to a halt. This regime is about to collapse. As predicted, the people of the Falkland Islands had NOTHING to worry about. In the end, Kirchner bit off more than she could chew.
36 briton (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
10 Truth_Telling_Troll

It's a tyranny, so we'll leave. Nothing will happen just like when we kicked the IMF in the arse

Amazing how many people and organisations you guys kick, when it suits you,
You only need the world; when you want something, then afterwards tell the world you don’t need anyone,
Typical of argie bloggers,
The only guys that jump out of planes without a parachute, and honestly expect to go upwards.
/////////////////////////
14 Truth_Telling_Troll (

But trade won't be blocked by 40 countries. only because it would be a world first in peacetime, but also because it is impossible to enforce,” /The measure would lose clout in no time because /

We think you are slightly confused; CFK is not IRAN or North Korea,
A blockade against argentine would have an almost immediate effect, and devastating effects,, of course it could be B/S but there is a way we can find out,, can we not .

.
37 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:07 pm Report abuse
@33

The UK is reducing the growth of debt, which is radically different than reducing debt (I'm taking your statement as an assumption, I don't know the UK fiscal situation but last year it was described as “dire”). The UK gov may have instilled austerity but again, economics is the same here and in Spain, and austerity brings lower growth which increases debt load because the economy shrinks. I don't see how the UK can grow and have austerity. Either the austerity is not a tough as it seems or something else is going on.
38 rule_britannia (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
“SOY” in Spanish means “I am”. S“OS” means “you are”. But “SOS SOY” means “Argentina is buggered!!!!”
39 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:15 pm Report abuse
@37 - It means that we have cut our debt, and are not spending money like it's going out of fashion. This has a knock on effect to give confidence to the stock markets around the world, and to investors, both foreign and domestic, who see Britain as a safe bet.

This in turn creates jobs, and increases consumer spending and confidence, which goes on to further strenghten the economy. It's not a radical financial policy like Argentina's, but it seems to be working well.
40 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
@36

Why would Argentina be devastated by an embargo when Cuba, Iran, and North Korea, countries with a fraction of the food growing capacity of Argentina and very little in any other natural wealth or industry (Iran the exception with oil), have lasted for over a half a century?

Embargos are not very effective, not only because of the examples above, but also because you yourselves say this in regards to the Falklands situation. The Falklanders may be inconvenienced but will just be more resolute.

that is the key word: RESOLUTE. The Falklanders claim they are more resolute than ever against Argentina because of the blockade/embargo they see on them. The Cubans, North Koreans, Iranians are more resolute than ever because of the embargoes.

EMGARGOES HAVE NEVER WORKED IN THE RECENT HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

Embargo Argentina and her behavior will get even far worse than now. Resolute.
41 briton (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
37
We grow because we know what we are doing,
Cameron is drumming up trade,

Argentina on the other hand, knows not, what she is doing, and she is trying to drum up support for the Falklands,

And that is the difference,
We want growth, ,and she wants the Falklands,
We will grow, and she will not get the Falklands
She is obsessed with the islands, but the laughable bit, is that most of you bloggers agree with her,

And you wonder why, she will drag you down with her, wake up man, don’t tell the truth//listen to the truth,

Support the british, and you will do well .??
42 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:22 pm Report abuse
Its a good point Tobias, austerity does indeed reduce growth as a traditional tactic to restart/rejuvenate an economy is to massively invest in the public sector, which is really what CFK to cause a lot of Argentine growth.

The problem the UK faced with a slowing economy was a huge inefficient and cumbersome public sector which in a positive market is easily manageable but in the long recession western countries have faced becomes an anchor to achieving any form of growth.

The UK's position isn't great but its also entirely manageable hence the reason why the UK gets left alone by credit agencies and international bodies, it's unlikely to cause any significant problems over the long term but it consistently being weighed down by failing international countries particularly in the EU where a great deal of its trade is. Spain is a huge problem that makes Greece look like a very minor issue and then there is Portugal & Italy who are also problematic.

The key to growth with a reduced public sector is efficiencies which is what the UK is focused on. If you spend effectively in the public sector you can help restart growth but manage the resources required to support the growth whilst not increasing overheads like the UK has done previously.

Obviously growth is achievable in other areas and it is expected in the next year or two western nations will start to move back into growth having shaken down their positions, reduced public spending and having dealt with many underlying problems.
43 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:29 pm Report abuse
@42

Austerity is not a magic pill. It only works if there is confidence. If there is not, then even if the UK's position on debt is completely sustainable, the whole thing will crumble. If you were a stockbroker, I will defer to your expertise on most of the arcane matters, but laymen like myself can remind you that if there is enough irrationality and fear in a market, no fundamentals matter.

The Pound may be a perfectly viable currency, but if tonight everyone dumped it, it would collapse the UK. Same with any other paper asset, even gold.

Spain also has a conservative government doing massive cuts, and yet doubt remain there. So it is not a matter of “cut and they will come”
44 briton (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:29 pm Report abuse
The British have never toed the line, we have big trade with Europe, but unlike Spain and the others, who only want and wait for help, or the nod from Germany, the brits have expanded their interests and will trade further abroad,
We will grow again by using the world as our oyster,
We are a trading maritime nation,

But Argentina is not, you are still learning,
TTT keeps on about Iran north Korea ect ect,, yes they survive,
And the people starve, and or get poorer,
Argentina is not them; you are trying to be a democracy, so a blockade would very much hurt you badly,
.
45 Xect (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:39 pm Report abuse
Tobias, I'd agree, it doesn't resolve all issues and in certain circumstances can be very risky.

Market sentiment has always been king. Luckily the UK is universally considered a safe haven with its very strong currency, effective regulation and stable economics.

As for 'what ifs' well what if the world was hit by an asteroid? Now this may seem far fetched but then many things are feasible if unlikely.

The problem Spain had was it was a highly unbalanced economy, even as far back as 2003 I would not invest client funds in its country. The problem Spain has/had is its construction industry runs its economy and is based on foreign purchases of its property. Now it doesn't take a genius to realise this is highly dangerous and unsustainable given the first thing people stop doing is buying property in another country when a slow down occurs in their own country. Tourism slows, the need for property does in turn and holiday homes are nothing more than a luxury.

And then on top of that Spain has made its cuts several years too late and now too harshly although its questionable if they would of been effective several years ago with a completely stalled economy.

Spain was a disaster waiting to happen.
46 LEPRecon (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:44 pm Report abuse
@43 - “The Pound may be a perfectly viable currency, but if tonight everyone dumped it, it would collapse the UK. Same with any other paper asset, even gold.”

Whilst is a true statement I don't see why it's relevant to this article. Since sterling is a stable currency why would anyone dump it? Dumping a currency means that the investor usually has to take a loss to buy whichever form of currency is now considered 'stable', so it's not something that is done lightly.

However, this article is about the WTO taking action against Argentina because of it's fiscal policies and not about British fiscal policies, which the WTO seem happy with.
47 briton (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 10:55 pm Report abuse
correct .
48 Troneas (#) Apr 11th, 2012 - 11:12 pm Report abuse
@34. “the debt is Argentina's regardless of who was in power when the loan was taken. Your government, your responsibility end of, and your argument holds no weight on the world stage.”

Another silly comment from another poster who comes in here accusing Argentina without doing his homework first.

www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/index.cfm?DSP=subcontent&AreaID=152

and FYI, Argentina is not the only country claiming odious debt release. The US has done this on behalf of Iraq during its occupation so they wouldn't have to take charge of that debt themselves.
49 you are not first (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 02:45 am Report abuse
LePrecom( Choose a human name)

When I said England as in “26” - I am trying to put that piece of land called GB within 21 CENTURY perspective of the modern and civilized world . I understand you and your fellows' lineal world called “MY QUEEN FIRST- DEMOCRACY CONCEPT” and as others, I try to be tolerant to your involution per say...

I apologize for NOT being so ERUDITE as you are.

At not far distance from my home( WALL STREET), we all say that the best
deal in America is to BUY an unemployed Britt ,for the real VALUE and SELL him for WHATEVER VALUE HE THINKS HE IS WORTH. IF YOU DID NOT GET THIS JOKE IT IS BECAUSE YOU MAY BE THE ONE
50 Britninja (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 03:08 am Report abuse
@48 I think a succinct summary of your link is “Waaah waaah! We don't want to pay! Waaah waahhh! e.t.c”

@49 I did try to comprehend your rambling gibberish but basically I think it should be your parents who apologise to us all - for not using protection.
51 rebeldenacion (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 04:05 am
Comment removed by the editor.
52 LEPRecon (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 06:09 am Report abuse
@40 - What utter drivel you spout! 21st century perspective? Trying to cover up for not knowing the difference between Britain and England, and also just being plain ignorant, with some kind of huge chip on your shoulder for whatever reason. If you can't actually comment about the subject under discussion then STFU, as no one wants to read your inane bigoted rantings.

Plus you can't even get my name right, it's LEPRecon, and it's taken from a book I am particularly fond of called 'Artemis Fowl' by Eoin Colfer.

As for @48, you're government got you into debt. Tough, live with it and pay back your debts. Crying about who was in power at the time doesn't hold weight, if it did every time a government of a country changed they could default on loans saying that because it wasn't them that took out the loan they shouldn't have to pay it back.

The only country that doesn't think it should honour it's obligations and pay off it's debt is Argentina, the rest of the world want you to stop whining and settle your debts.
53 Xect (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 07:17 am Report abuse
I do find the whole it wasn't us it was the military junta comments highly amusing. I mean some folk are trying to absolve the country from actions taken by the country.

Its the same as CFK's latest ramblings about the junta not the people took action and invaded in 82', still bless her, her memory appears to be as strong as her logic. So the millions celebrating in the streets must not of been the people then?

Using that logic the UK doesn't need to answer for anything in its past given it isn't the same people in power today!
54 Conqueror (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 10:21 am Report abuse
All we need to do is wait and see. According to another article en.mercopress.com/2012/04/12/major-industrial-action-threatens-argentine-ports-at-harvest-export-peak
“Thousands of trucks will have to queue for days to unload.” The thing is that cargo ships only make money when they are at sea transporting things from one place to another. Time in port is money loss time. Will the ships stay in port, losing money, until their intended cargo turns up? Or will their owners arrange better deals so that the ships can sail? And if the ships have sailed, what will happen to the soybeans? And then there's the trucks. 16,000 trucks A DAY won't be doing anything except standing waiting. Might the trucking companies tell their drivers to dump their loads at the side of the road so the trucks can be used for something else? What do we think? 700,000 truckloads of soybeans dumped on the side of the road.
55 Troneas (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 10:39 am Report abuse
@53. Don't be ridiculous. Doesn't your government drop bombs on military dictatorships worldwide to depose them supposedly to bring freedom and democracy to the world?

Now why would a government support the IMF and its baks to LEND MONEY to a country under a military dictatorship that has no opposition (judicial, congress) if not to further their own agenda?

Now of course ultimately the Argentina junta accepted the debt. But you obviously haven't read the link i provided above.

the IMF and the countries that back it up then told Argentina how to spend it, what to sell, what to keep, when and where, and if they had time they also opinionated on when the football season should start and finish.

Argentina has paid its debt two-fold if not more. Do some research before amusing yourself too much.
56 Welsh Wizard (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 11:26 am Report abuse
40 Truth_Telling_Troll

The reason the embargo would be a porblem is tghat you rely on exports to the fund internal state spending on social progs etc and also to pay interest (on principal) on debt. Yes you could feed yourselves but that would mean that you would probably have to cut internal spending by half and also default on you debt payments. This cut in social spending would possibly lead to the government being toppled which in would then lead to masive capital flight, hyperinflation etc. I see what you mean by having the internal ability to feed people but, the world is globalised and, as such, an agrarian economic model just won't work. I do understand that not everyone will stop trade but the balance is very tight at the moment. If either the US, EU or china were to stop or even decrease thieir trade by an aggregate of 10-15% this would push the bugdget deficit over the edge, that is the main issue.
57 PirateLove (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 11:29 am Report abuse
There may be trouble.... ahead, so lets face the music.....and dance!!

Fasten your seatbelts Argentina.......you're in for a bumpy ride
58 toooldtodieyoung (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 12:02 pm Report abuse
oh lordy....... I think that someone has finally rumbled Argentina-land

time to take the money and run KFC!! you, and your malformed offspring!!!
59 axel arg (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 12:03 pm Report abuse
Firstly, i woud never clarin as a sorce, it's not serious in absolut.
Beside, like i said a few weeks ago, some countries make such a fuss, when our country imposses some restrictions for the imports, like all the nations do, in order to protect their industries. But what they dont say, is that arg. is the country from the g. 20 which more increased it's imports, what kind of excesive protectionism is that?, in fact we still could sell not even one of our lemonds in u. s. a. On the other hand, the ambassador should tell too the u. s. a and the e. u were accused before the w. t. o more than 100 times, and arg. was accused 17 times, beside sinec 2003 it has only been accused twice. So, where do you think that there is more protectionism really?, do you really buy the lie about the so called free market?.
60 yankeeboy (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
59. Axel does CFK send out talking points daily or do you just listen to her speeches over and over until you are brainwashed?
We don't accept your Lemons or other citrus because you use pesticides and fungicides that we consider to be poison. Chile, Brazil, Colombia or Brazil don't have the problems exporting their fruit and vegs to here.
You are also using 2011 figures in your import increase not 2012 so as usual you are deliberately distorting the true facts.
Your Ambassador is basically a person non grata he can't get a meeting with anyone significant here and the trade mission last week was an embarrassing bust. They had an 1hr meeting then they all went shopping because of the import restrictions at home.
61 LEPRecon (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 03:01 pm Report abuse
TTT - regarding my post @52, it was meant in response to 'you are not the firsts' post @49 not your post @40.

Sorry for the confusion, but you can't edit a post once it's been made and 9 & 0 are next to each other on the keyboard.
62 Pugol-H (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 04:55 pm Report abuse
I don’t think any form of sanctions would be considered by the IMF against Argentina, after at least a year, if proven, the complainants can “adopt commercial reprisals”. Equivalent trade barriers to those operated by Argentina.

This does nothing to stop trade, but it can add considerably to costs, which in itself can be painful enough.

Whilst there may be bigger issues with the “terms of trade” in the world, that is not the fundamental issue here. Under the present trade system, Argentina should be a wealthy country.

Until you fix that problem, it doesn’t matter much what you do with world trade or debts, Argentina will still struggle.
63 TipsyThink (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
Argentina ! ...always remind that EVERY NATION HAS ITS PRICE !

www.economist.com/node/21552564
64 reality check (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
Why are Argentine bloggers constantly comparing the economies of other countries. Surely this story is about their economy and their trade restrictions, after all it them the US and EU are considering taking to the WTO.
65 Pirat-Hunter (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
Is this the end to self determination for Argentina??? We might not get Ipods or Iphones but we can most likely eat BBQ's and afford eggs for pastry and drink a Good red table whine while we watch or play a soccer game on weekends, what else does a man need?? This is not even mentioning the company of beautifully Argentine women.
66 TipsyThink (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
poor petty replication/distraction sprockets....!
67 briton (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 08:08 pm Report abuse
@55
Doesn't your government drop bombs on military dictatorships worldwide

[What utter irresponsible slander]
CFK is still alive and well is she not,,,tut tut
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Argentina has paid its debt two-fold if not more

[So you are stating that Argentina does not owe any country any money,
[And is thus debt free ]
Still,
As some of you are totally [either] anti British, or indoctrinated,
One has to ask, is it your fault, that you guys know not .
But as a primitive species, of the CFK kind,
You just don’t understand what truth really is,.
.
68 toooldtodieyoung (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
49 you are not first

Your name says it all. If an original thought went through your head it would be the fastest trip in the world. Do you think for yourself or do you just recycle other peoples points of view?

The ORIGINAL ( see? that word again!! ) is:-

How do you make a quick profit?

You buy an Argentinian for what he's worth and you sell him for what he thinks he's worth.

14 Truth_Telling_Troll

“Argentina has payed off the IMF and World bank” I think you'll find that you can fit everyone in your pocket. Bribes to look the other way will only go so far. Eventually, you have to face the music ( like, right now! )
69 Pirat-Hunter (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
Argentina should consider some actions against US and UK for their protectionist practices and farming subsidies. Argentina has nothing to loose this two countries are only interest in theft anyways, their Cheerleaders will find out the hard way when they deside to aim their UN guns at them.
70 briton (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
what has Cheerleaders, to do with the falklands,

and the UN does not own any guns.
71 Xect (#) Apr 12th, 2012 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
As ever Troneas post 55 yet more of the same. Argentina attempts to resolve itself of any responsibility. You are also failing when you compare modern standards to those from a long time ago which is really yet more fault Argentine logic.

Regardless of who was in power, their motives or pressures applied to them, they agreed the terms, took the money and spent it.

And incidentally your reply has zero to do with my post.

Am I still amused by some of the posts here? Oh yes.
72 fermin (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 04:53 am Report abuse
During the last 5 years, the commerce balance between Argentina and the US has increased in favour of the US. So please people... watch out while reading artichles like these...

In the last decades developed countries have stopped importing a lot of stuff, they have become protectionists, more than not developed countries.

The EU has also been very proud every time a Northamerican service or product was replaced by a european-manufactured one in their markets. So... it would be fair to measure all countries with the same rules...
73 Alexei (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 05:53 am Report abuse
Personally I don't give a damn about Argentina's protectionist policies. They can go to their room, slam their door and cry as much as they like, it's their colonialist and expansionist policies I'm less happy about.
74 lsolde (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 10:20 am Report abuse
@73Alexei,
l'd have to agree to that.
75 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 10:52 am Report abuse
@73 Agreed.
76 LEPRecon (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 01:23 pm Report abuse
@73 - I also agree with your statement. But the screeching harpy that runs Argentina keeps bringing up the Falklands to distract her brainwashed followers from the truth that Argentina's economy is completely FUBAR'd, and soon their precious money won't be worth the paper it's printed on.
77 Pirat-Hunter (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
Eggs anyone?? Lol
www.treehugger.com/green-food/egg-shortages-uk-due-end-battery-eggs.html
Today, land access remains largely unfair and inequitable. Never has such a high percentage of the world's population been displaced from their indigenous or ancestral lands, left without land, a secure home, or the ability to feed themselves.

As the consolidation of land as a private resource for profit-making is global, so is the movement to relate to land in an alternative way, one that meets everyone's needs. Landless, peasant, family and indigenous farmers worldwide have long been engaged in land reclamation and land reform movements -- either seizing unfairly owned or consolidated land or winning laws mandating redistribution. (The same concepts often underlie the struggle for fair housing.) Examples range from Americans fighting foreclosures as a part of “Occupy Our Homes” to Indians lying down in rows to block corporate tractors encroaching on their villages, Haitians still living in tents since the earthquake two years ago marching for their right to housing, and indigenous Hondurans reclaiming their territories in the face of violent repression.
www.huffingtonpost.com/beverly-bell/womens-rights-in-brazil_b_1412512.html
Payback time is always sweeter, let's give up the high tech toys in Argentina and eat our own produse, let those Americans and brits eat their own Ipods and cars. We can start by eating all the soy going to Europe god knows 160.000 trucks of soy can keep Argentina well fed for a few years. www.publicserviceeurope.com/article/1712/has-european-protectionism-finally-triumphed-over-free-trade
78 briton (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 05:38 pm Report abuse
it will make you all much bigger, brainless and more over weight
and of course it may well give you all heart attacks,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
and all this , still has nothing to do with the british falklands .
79 axel arg (#) Apr 13th, 2012 - 06:25 pm Report abuse
YANKEE BOY.
Your answer was so onvious that doesn't sorprise anyone. I dont deny that i use numbers of 2011, i have said it in another comment, anyway i should have mentioned it in my coment 59 too. I am not distorting anything, all the countries are protectionist and we all know it, i just say that some of those countries that accuse arg. for excersiging a soposed excesive protectionism, are even more protectionist than us, and i dont criticise their policies, they need to protect their indutries too. On the other hand, i know the argument about the soposed pesticides, which is used in your side, in order to reject our lemonds, and perhaps only yo can believe it.
If we are much more protectionist than many of those nations that criticise us, then why arg. increased it's imports more than them?.
80 LEPRecon (#) Apr 14th, 2012 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
@77 - Pirat-hunter. Calm down dear, you'll do yourself an injury.

Please feel free to become completely self-sufficient. Please feel free to isolate yourself from the world.

Please feel free to stop posting inane drivel, and links to articles that have not relevance to this topic.

Please feel free to grow up and start acting like an adult.

And most importantly, feel free to stop this constant whining on about the Falklands, which YOU will NEVER get - EVER!
81 lsolde (#) Apr 14th, 2012 - 08:43 pm Report abuse
Oh, so very true.
You will NEVER, EVER take OUR land, wouldbe thieves(malvinistas).
82 toooldtodieyoung (#) Apr 16th, 2012 - 11:49 am Report abuse
81 lsolde

Don't worry lsolde, before the end of the year the Argentine economy will implode and then their armed forces will not be able to buy any rifles, let alone the bullets to put in them. The rest of the population will be too busy stratching around trying not to die of starvation to even think about invading but if they do, we will just send the Gurkha's down there to shower them in hugs and kisses................
83 shb (#) Apr 16th, 2012 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
Truth telling troll.

Keep lying to yourself about the state of Argentina's economy, that always works.....

Sooner or later bad debts will catch up with you, as do defaults.

Lots of people over here found taht out recently, but if you want to fool yourself into thinking “it can't happen here” be my guest.

@axel arg - your country is not being criticised by one trading partner, but a whole group of them, and I do believe that the Chileans were also complaining recently. Surely that must tell you that there is something wrong. Start a trade war with the rest of the world and see where that gets you...........
84 axel arg (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:34 pm Report abuse
SHB.
We all know that all the countries are protectionist, and that's correct, because all the nations need to protect their industries, i only say that all those nations that criticise arg, are more protectionist than us. If it soposes that arg. is exercising a soposed excesive protectionism, then how do you explain that arg. is the country of the g 20 which more increased it's imports, lest be honest, what some of those nations which are going through an economic crisis want, is to put their products in arg., and in others countries, and that's something that we must impide, and its' necesary to be protectionist, like all the nations.
We always have some problems with our trade, and that's normal, but all the problems are always solved between the parts, it's not necesary to make such a ridicoulus fuss.
85 lsolde (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 05:55 am Report abuse
@84Axel,
Doublespeak from the Ministry for Lies & Obstructions

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