Tuesday, April 17th 2012 - 07:07 UTC

Mexico appeals to CFK: nobody in its right mind invests in countries that expropriates

Mexican president Felipe Calderón and G-20 group head, said that Argentina’s plan to seize a majority stake in Repsol’s Argentine branch YPF is “very regrettable” and called on President Cristina Fernandez to reconsider and rectify the decision.

Calderon is also president of G20 and this week meets with Spanish leader Rajoy

“I sincerely hope that Argentina can rectify that decision” said Calderon on Monday evening addressing an audience of under 40 leaders in the framework of the World Economic Forum, Latin America chapter, which takes off on Tuesday at the Pacific resort of Puerto Vallarta.

“I consider very regrettable that the Argentine government, our friend Cristina Fernandez could have taken a measure that is in nobody’s interests” including the Argentines, insisted the president of Mexico, whose government owned oil corporation Pemex has a 9.5% stake in Repsol, and thus in YPF.

“This is absolutely a not very responsible measure or rational for that matter” Calderon said. “It is clearly in violation of treaties and accords about the reciprocity of investments”.

Calderon is scheduled to hold a meeting with visiting Spanish president Mariano Rajoy during the coming sessions of the regional Economic Forum.

“All developing countries, we need investments and nobody in his right mind invests in a country which expropriates investments” warned Calderon who pointed out that the worst signal for investors is seeing a country which takes over foreign investment ignoring contracts and rule of the law.

Calderón’s statements were followed by an official release from the Mexican Energy ministry regretting the Argentine Executive decision to seize YPF.

“Mexico considers that Latin America must be aware that if it wishes economic growth to reach full employment and sustainable development for its peoples, the path is certainly not expropriations, the way is trade, commerce and reciprocal investments”.

Therefore we pray for the “preservation of a climate of certainty and trust in economic exchanges, and with special attention to those conditions that make possible the investments both domestic and foreign”.

Finally the Ministry of Energy revealed that “recently” and given the news of the possible expropriation of part of YPF, the Spanish government requested from Mexico, “since it currently holds the presidency of the G20 group” its support “for transmitting Spanish concern regarding the situation of YPF in Argentina” and this request has been attended to for its distribution and consideration.

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1 ElaineB (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:52 am Report abuse
““This is absolutely a not very responsible measure or rational for that matter” Calderon said. “It is clearly in violation of treaties and accords about the reciprocity of investments”.”

Well, yes. CFKC is not rational or responsible and violates treaties without a flicker of guilt.
2 Austral (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:50 am Report abuse
Good on Mexico for speaking out. Unlike the Falklands, this is a real issue for Latin America.
3 RedBaron (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:55 am Report abuse
Shot herself in the feet (both the left AND the right !)
4 LEPRecon (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:01 am Report abuse
It's because of completely selfish and irrational acts like these that Argentina has little or no support from South American countries, let alone the IMF, WTO and other nations.

Mexico is trying to give some good advice here, but the rapid CFK faithful will be along shortly claiming how their 'Mexican brothers have stabbed them in the back,' for not siding with their insane policies 100%.

As Argentina drags itself closer to the abyss of complete and total dictatorship (which it practically is now) and a monumental economic crash, the world can only stand back and wonder at the absurdity of it all.
5 MistyThink (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:04 am Report abuse
Mexico ...first you have to learn how the agricultural products cultivate.


Mexico ....a country even imports maize,cucumber,pepper,garlic.....
6 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:26 am Report abuse
@5 Maybe they eat too many because their food is so delicious. Singapore and Japan have to import food too. It's normal.
7 MistyThink (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:39 am Report abuse
( 6 )
It is obvious that the money transfer abroad is more delicious than holding it in domestic.
8 Britishbulldog (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:55 am Report abuse
Does anyone down that neck of the wood like Argentina in fact is it only rogues nations in the world that will side with them. What an prick of a nation with a prick of a President well she would have if she had balls.
9 Stefan (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:31 am Report abuse
Even Mexico (remember Latin American solidarity?) opposes crazy KFC.
10 The Cestrian (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:23 pm Report abuse
Looks like she will get $15b for stealing the company and then selling it on to the chinese. Meanwhile REPSOL will sue Argentina for $10b.

I note that the interest charged to the RG's on international loans (where they can get them) is nearly 12%. considering that 6% triggers a bailout in the EU then you can see why she said that if she hadnt done this then RG Land was no longer viable.

They look completely fucked TBH.
11 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:30 pm Report abuse
$15b and having the Chinese ordering you around and bringing over their own resources. It'll be just like in Africa.

... and all this just so that KFC can get some more gold into her offshore accounts.
12 Be serious (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:02 pm Report abuse
Repsol should tie up with Rockhopper.

Kill 2 birds with one stone

1) Invest in an area with proven oil reserves
2) Stick it right up Turkey Neck's junta
13 LEPRecon (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:06 pm Report abuse
@11 - GY, I'd like to see the RG's try the same thing and steal from the Chinese. Their response to any 'dishonourable act' will be proportionate to the amount of insult they believe has been shown to them.

If the RG's try it, I doubt it would be long after that there is a Chinese military base or 2, in Argentina in 'compensation' for the said insult. It'll either be that or the Chinese will bring their economic weight to bear, call in a few markers, and Argentina will be forced to their knees. And if the Chinese get a foothold in Argentina, they ain't gonna leave.
14 fermin (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:09 pm Report abuse
LOL, as if Cristina was worried about what Calderon thinks about this.

Even the opposition in Argentina is supporting this decision about controlling strategic resources like gas and oil.
15 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:17 pm Report abuse

As if Del Vido controlling YPF is an improvement over the prior state.
16 Wireless (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:19 pm Report abuse
Repsol should just walk out of Argentina as soon as this YPF expropriation happens, just close up shop, forget the whole Argentine experience as a bad nightmare, and take the matter to an International Court.

Along with doing that, as @12 suggests, Repsol should invest in the more stable environment of the Falkland Islands, and show CFK how money is made.

She will be furious, Argentina will no longer be in the G20, and Repsol (Spain) will make money under her nose 'on Argentine soil', I just can't wait.
17 THOR94 (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:04 pm Report abuse
Right, im not that knowledgeable in regards to Stocks,shares and economic issues, so which one of you nice people will explain just what CFK is doing, and whys its bad, and according to the report illegal ?
18 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:16 pm Report abuse

The problem is that the cogent economic arguments some people here make are tossed into a turbid melange of tendentious political (even very personal) opinion. Most people here detest CFK, hate Argentines, and loathe Argentina. As a consequence many of their points are clouded by superfluous commentary or even crude billingsgates.

The protestations of the rest of the world over this act sound hollow and redolent of shameless hypocrisy to most Argentines. Why? Because Mexico's oil company PEMEX is nationalized, Brazil's Petrobras is nationalized, and Chile's “oil” company Codelco (copper) is also 100% nationalized. So for these states to be indignant on the issue appears as patently rich on their part.

The genuine criticism should be the timing and form of the expropriation. CFK claims this was done to effectuate the “instauration” of the company. Most of us rational observers do not believe this to be the truth. That is the crux, not the actual act itself which while perhaps highly questionable, is not uncommon at all.
19 The Cestrian (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:43 pm Report abuse

”The protestations of the rest of the world over this act sound hollow and redolent of shameless hypocrisy to most Argentines. Why? Because Mexico's oil company PEMEX is nationalized, Brazil's Petrobras is nationalized, and Chile's “oil” company Codelco (copper) is also 100% nationalized. So for these states to be indignant on the issue appears as patently rich on their part.”

again another shite argument from an RG. you know fine and well why there is a fuss and it has nothing to do with nationalisation perse but nationalisation of an asset that does not belong to you but belongs to another country.

Petrobras was a Brazilian company, not a spanish ones so there is no direct comparison.

This is theft, no more and no less, and it is happening because your country has no money due to gross financial negligence and corruption.

first it was the pension fund, then it was the state bank, now we have another country's business and what next - Santander? I bet your govt would love to get their hands on another country's bank. Imagine the fun they could have playing with their money?
20 yankeeboy (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:54 pm Report abuse
19. There is no reason for CFK to take any banks. They require that 75% of their assets to be in Arg bonds or Pesos already.
I can't think of any other entity that has any U$ left. Maybe there is some in the US car companies accounts but she would never mess with them.
This will cost Arg in the short term and will be far worse in the long term I really don't see what her plan is going forward. The country has $0 for investments, the fields are already dry or close to it. This is a purely political move and was poorly thought out.
21 ChrisR (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:57 pm Report abuse
18 tobias

Come on tobias, I know you are not as stupid as the remarks you have just made.

Brasil does not hold 100% of the stock of Petrobras: Mexico holds stock in YPF, therefore Repsol; I don't know about Chile but I bet they have 'cross-holdings' too.

What the Mad Bitch is doing is theft. She has already engineered a crash in the share price and does anybody, even the Argentinians, believe the independent valuation is indeed going to be independent or a reasonable valuation?

AND, do not forget the 'levy' that will appear on the valuation for CFKs cronies to pocket.

Do you not care what a bunch of thieves Argentina looks like to the rest of the world?

I feel so sorry for the good people of Argentina who have to suffer this vile person who ought to be locked away in a secure medical facility for her own mental health.

Please do not trip out the 54% government lie either. She got 36.2% of the eligible vote: 63.8% did NOT vote for her. I bet you would be hard pushed to get anybody admit to voting for her now apart from her own, paid for, cronies.
22 briton (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
hey,,,, B.K voted for her,
and mr Think xbox, and firmin and tobias , about 5 others on here,
23 Philippe (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
Felipe: You are dead right!

24 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
Well, I'm unconcerned about Argentina's image in the world because the rest of the world's opinion is irrelevant. If it is good, nice. If it is bad, that's life. It is mostly a European, Asian, and North American foible (increasingly Brazilian), that the image of their country in the view of others is such a paramount matter.

My point was PEMEX, Petrobras, and Codelco are nationalized companies, the majority stake is held by the respective government. Discussing percentages is quibbling the general point.
25 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
I said it before, and I'll say it again... those Argies will be having tree-bark broth for dinner, just like their BFFs the North Koreans, and it's going to be sooner than we all think.
26 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:08 pm Report abuse

Actually I'll have artichoke with ravioli and if it wasn't a weekday a good bottle of Bonarda.

Sure beats the Big Mac 5 times a week that is the staple of Brit diet.
27 The Cestrian (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:08 pm Report abuse

south america slowly but surely falling into chaos:

”According to the International Center for the Settlement of Investment Disputes, of the 143 pending cases of investment disputes awaiting an outcome, an astonishing 49 percent (70 cases) are in Central and South America. And the country with the most number of cases lodged against it is (you guessed it) Argentina -- even more than Venezuela. The 'bad boys' of Latin America -- Bolivia, Ecuador, and Venezuela -- have all either said they will no longer resolve disputes through international forums of arbitration, or have already pulled out of them. Other Latin American countries may now be expected to follow their lead”.
28 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:24 pm Report abuse
6- “Maybe they eat too many because their food is so delicious”
GreekYoghurt is changing his name to Chimichanga.

Put some lemon on it Chimichanga..
29 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse

Would Europe follow the rules set forth by South America? Why should South America follow the rules which were imposed by Europeans?

It's chaos, but it's not mindless chaos. It's just a region that no longer is going to just follow rules that were imposed on them rather than negotiated with them in good faith.
30 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:37 pm Report abuse
@28,26 You're both just sour because I live in a good country.
31 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:40 pm Report abuse

What's more satisfying: a good country or good food?

I'll stick with my ravioli and fresh artichoke with award-winning Mendoza olive oil and a good bottle of Bonarda.
32 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
@31 difficult to drink your vino when you're wearing a kevlar helmet and flak-jacket from all the marauding kidnappers/la campora.

Keep your olive oil and ravioli, we've got italy for that (2 hours by easyjet). Besides, no one's going to be buying your produce soon, so enjoy it while it lasts.
33 reality check (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:47 pm Report abuse
Tobias @ 24 Of course it's bloody relevant. It's bloody relevant when a manufacturer is looking at your neighbours country to build a plant in rather than yours. Why? because your neighbours get the bloody jobs thats why.
34 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
@33 you're assuming Argentinians like jobs, and don't just want to sit on their arses watching the chinese do productive things.

The reality is that they don't like doing jobs.
35 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:54 pm Report abuse

Italy is slighly farther for us. Lucky for you Europe is small. You go there for olive oil and Barolo, they go to you for scotch and ale.

That's the one thing Europe has going for it.


Argentina has no trust of foreign investment, to see why, read up on the late 1990s.
36 yankeeboy (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:55 pm Report abuse
31. Tobias you know that almost every mfgs in Argentina including wine and olive oil profits come from export and not the internal market. So even in your feeble little brain how long do you think they can keep making the products if you are locked out of the 3 biggest markets in the world?
Getting kicked out of the US import preference list has already had a huge effect on Arg wine and olive oil sales to the USA. You are not the cheapest any longer so people stopped ordering it. Now you'll probably be blocked outright by the EU..now what? China, don't count on them taking up the unsold slack unless it is even further discounted. Ooops there goes the profit and the business. Idiots.
37 Simon68 (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:58 pm Report abuse
35 tobias:

I don't think that we don't trust foreign investment, we don't trust our governments to apply the pacted controls to the investments, which is another thing altogether.
38 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:03 pm Report abuse

Feeble little brain... U mad?

Until 10-15 years ago almost all wine in Argentina was consumed internally, so how was it made then without the foreign profits? Or maybe there is an internal market. As for wine to the USA, there has not been one media report substantiating your claims. Malbec still sells all over the world, because it has become a “signature varietal” associated with Argentina as being the best made.

It would be like bourbon being raised in price due to other countries being enemies of the USA. People would still buy bourbon because it is associated as being best when it comes from the USA. Same with Malbec which is why it has been unaffected.
39 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:16 pm Report abuse
@38 Malbec wines aren't just found in Argentina, they're a major grape in the USA too. It's just Argentina thinks it makes the best Malbec wines. I personally don't drink Argentinian wines out of principle, so it doesn't matter what Argentinians think of their own produce... no one else will be buying it soon. So drink it all up.
40 reality check (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:17 pm Report abuse
Tobias @35. Why is it you always look to the past? Surely it is what happens in the future that matters. It's a fact of modern times, money travels, you have to travel with it. Okay, I'm being simplistic, but it is that simple
41 yankeeboy (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
38. Are you a little dim? Your example is irrelevant prices outside of the USA barely have any effect on our internal market SINCE IT IS THE LARGEST SINGLE MARKET IN THE WORLD.
I can buy Arg wine cheaper in the USA than you can in Arg. It sell becuase it is the cheapest not nearly the best. I bought a bottle for U$4.99 to cook with last week. I am not going to do the research for you but your Provincial Govt is freaking out over losing the US preference discounts.
42 THOR94 (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
@ tobias Now can i have a non-biased explanation, rather than, and ive got to be truthful, a biased explanation, explaining about why others are biased. Why does the international community hate this, anyone who is not going to be biased ?
43 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:30 pm Report abuse

Argentina “thinks” it makes the best? Are all wine critics argie now? Man, if this is not a prime example of how personal bias can corrupt objective thought then I don't know what could be.


I'm just informing you about the prevailing attitude in Argentina. In the late 1990s, many argentine factories, slaughterhouses, etc were bought by foreigners or even local businessmen, and they were SHUT DOWN and sent to Brazil, Mexico, Chile, etc. At the time, no one here could make the argument that was because Argentina was “business unfriendly”. It had one of the world's most liberal investment policies and there were no restrictions at all on capital flows (unlike Chile or Brazil which at the time had restrictions on short-term or so-called “vulture” money). That is still fresh in people's mind. Foreign investment didn't come into Argentina, it simply bought things in Argentina and took them away. That has left a very bad taste in the mouth.


Of course Argentine wines, since they have arisen in the world market only in recent years, have a tight price-quality ratio. But don't think that is just for argie wines, it is for all wines, yes even Italian and French. If you know anything about the wine business as you claim, French wine industry has had a massive slump and glut of wine (the wine like is called), because they believed themselves immune to the price-quality aspect because they were “french wines”. But the new generations of wine growers have no respect for tradition or name if the price is deemed excessive. All nations face the same rules. For you to single out Argentina as the only one dealing with price barriers or concern just shows you to be the same as Greekyoghurt above, personal bias getting in the way of your objective intellections.
44 Think (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:33 pm Report abuse
Things are getting serious…………


Chuckle chuckle©
45 ElaineB (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:56 pm Report abuse
@43 It is true that the majority of wine produced 15 years ago was for local consumption but it was really bad and cheap wine. I remember being told this by an Argentine sommelier in Mendoza. When the Argentines decided to produce good quality wine, it was primarily for export and to get money into the country. The domestic market cannot afford the quality wines (it is the same in Chile) save for a very small market.

It is also relevent that a lot of the quality wineries in Argentina are foreign owned. I visited wineries owned by people from Spain, USA, France, UK, and Chile. Though I did visit a very small bodega entirely Argentine owned and I adored the wines they produced.

Malbec is the signature wine of Argentina and a safe bet if choosing Argentine wine. It is the best variety Argentina produces but it doesn't make it the best in the world. Personally, I prefer the blended wines from the Mendoza area. JMO.

Without the export market I doubt the quality wineries will be sustainable.
46 Brit Bob (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:11 pm Report abuse
Mexico appeals to CFK. Sound advice from a country run by sensible politicians and a BBB1 credit rating talking about a country with a B3 credit rating.
47 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:12 pm Report abuse

Which is why I didn't tackle the quality issue. Yankeedoodle said Argentina would not be able to make wine if it did not export. That much is a lie.

I think it is true of any industry in any country, that without an external market they would not be able to produce much of what they do. That's even true of European or US products. They could produce them but there would be far fewer employed people doing it if there were not Chinese, Latin Americans, Middle easterners buying European cars, chocolates or US jeans and ipads.

Argentina would produce fine wine, just in much smaller quantities.

The example of wine making in Mendoza is how foreign investment SHOULD be. People come in, invest in the country, create jobs, they make a good profit, the government leaves them alone.

That is not what happens in other parts of the country. In the 1990s foreigners came, bought argentine factories only to close them and ship them to cheaper labor. It is well know that when the Spanish ran Aerolineas they used a lot of the revenues in AR to titivate Iberia. One of the main arguments for the takeover of YPF is that Repsol reinvested much of their profits from the argentine wells into their projects in Libya. I don't know how true that is or not.

Argentine dislike of foreign investment did not occur in a vacuum.
48 xbarilox (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
The president of the narcos, Felipe Calderón. Keep it up Felipe :)

@ 45 stop being sad, it's our oil.

@ 22 Keep up the fight for REPSOL, they will give you some money :)
49 Think (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:15 pm Report abuse
Speaking about Mexico....:

The Mexican oil expropriation was the expropriation of all oil reserves, facilities, and foreign oil companies in Mexico in 1938. It took place when President Lázaro Cárdenas declared that all mineral and oil reserves found within Mexico belong to the nation. This measure caused an international boycott of Mexican products in the following years, especially by the United States, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands.

Petroleos Mexicanos (PEMEX) finances between 45 to 50% of the federal government budget.
Bloody good idea they had in 1938.
Don't you “Think” so?
50 Brit Bob (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:25 pm Report abuse

It's Argentina's oil - it does not belong to CFK.

And while I'm on the subject of CFK - isn't she duty bound to serve the country's best interests?
51 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:46 pm Report abuse
@47 *Randomly selects a link*
“Tesco Malbec is a dry, fruity red with a bit of substance to stand up to food, but also light enough for every day drinking. It is priced at £2.99 and usually found amongst the sub-£3.50 wines on the bottom shelves of Tesco next to Italian Merlot and ChileanCabernetSauvignon at a similar price.
It is produced in the Mendoza region of Argentina, which is high up and dry which apparently allows the malbec grape to develop its complex dry fruit flavour” (source: www.ciao.co.uk/Tesco_Argentinian_Malbec__Review_5586089)

Hmm.. savouring the flavour of the sub-£3.50 wines on the bottom shelves of Tesco.
52 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse

Thankfully most of us don't shop for wine at tesco. Our income is high enough to enjoy a proper wine from a proper seller from time to time (where they also sell Malbec).

First rule of being in a hole with a shovel: stop digging.

But be my guest if you want to keep campaigning for the website's clown. Your attempt to suggest Malbec is only to be found at a hypermarket never had a prayer. You can find wine of any country and varietal at hypermarkets.

Shovel, shovel.
53 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:10 pm Report abuse
@52 It's not my fault you're sour because Argentinian Malbec is “usually found amongst the sub-£3.50 wines on the bottom shelves of Tesco”.

Must make you laugh though, when it's your wine selection of choice... I'm glad you like it though, because let's face it, in a few months, that £2.99'er will be all you're going to be drinking.
54 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:49 pm Report abuse
44 Think Messi is moving back :-)))))

Good point, Lázaro Cárdenas in Mexico did exactly the same thing, I am sure Calderon remember him very well, after all both of them were born in the same state of Michoacan.

What are this Brits and Yanks(FredBoy) are complaining about?
Didn't they murder hundreds of thousands to control Iraq oil under false pretexts?
Is our oil period.
55 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
@54 Your period is oil? You should see the doctor about that.
56 Britninja (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:00 pm Report abuse
I think it's dripping from between his ears too. You better be careful Marcos, Turkeyneck might put a claim on your brain, such as it is.
57 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
@55 Go eat your chimichanga in Mexifornia..
58 reality check (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
Is our oil period. It was, you sold it. Now you want to take it back . Perhaps she thinks she can pull the same con again. You just cannot be trusted can you, nobody will deal with you in the future. Not unless your lucky enough to find an imbecilic moron with loads of cash.
59 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
@56 His brain is a natural resource of Argentina, so she must have control of it.

@57 What's wrong with Chimichanga? Are you upset that it's Tex-Mex food and you cannot rewrite your history [again] to say you Argies invented it, when you're in no way industrious and the only thing you invented was ... nothing.
60 zulu99 (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:12 pm Report abuse
Tobias, I'm just curious, since you've made a lot of comments on here, what positive affects the expropriation of YPF will have on the Argentinian economy and how the average Argentinian will benefit from it? Your thoughts?
61 GreekYoghurt (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
@60 After they suck it dry of its cash flow YPF will basically end up like Aerolingus Argentinas and require huge amounts of state aid that's ultimately going to end up in Swiss bank accounts like the huge amount given to Aerolingus to refresh their fleet of flying rust, that just evaporated

None of this makes sense, from what she says. If she's speaking the truth then they would have been better putting the funds into that company that Nestor created called ENID or similar, which was supposed to be the state working in the market and give whichever concessions were legally taken off YPF through the courts to that company instead. They didn't do that, so the fact is this has nothing to do with who owns the oil, it's to do with KFC's need for huge amounts of cash, and quick.
62 LEPRecon (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:27 pm Report abuse
@58 - RC, I know of some Nigerian generals who have a lot of spare cash to help out poor people like CFK.

All she needs to do is send her bank account details to: general.I.M.A.Robber@suckersRU.com so he can deposit the money directly. LOL
63 Chicureo (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:50 pm Report abuse
Well the Argentine national news on cable was very upbeat and politically the president seems to have made an extremely popular decision. However, CFK continues the “Argentine paradox”: a unique condition as a country with incredible potential continues to squander its opportunities. Exactly a century ago, the country was the world's 10th wealthiest per capita.
This latest lunacy will result in everyone losing. Even Chile had a stake in YPF via ENAP. The world powers will force Cristina to agree to paying for the nationalization, but the compensation will take years to be quantified and then will come with all sorts of restrictions. Its true value will be a fraction of its face value. Meanwhile international capital for development will disappear. The consensus here in Chile is that Standard & Poor's, Fitch and Moody's will all degrade Argentina down to a lowly B- rating. (Chile has an A+, Brazil a BBB and Uruguay a BBB-) With corruption, this will provide the ruling party wealth to sustain their political stranglehold and attain billions in offshore accounts. Crime DOES pay.

Speaking of wine: There are some absolutely world class Argentine Malbecs being produced at higher elevations that would compare to the very best Cabs and Carménères from Chile. Saying that, the majority of wine produced in Argentina is red jug wine with only about 18% suitable for export to the low cost markets they compete in. I agree with Elaine that the domestic markets in Chile and Argentina buy a small percentage of high quality wine, but I can buy truly an excellent drinkable red here for less than 5.000 CLP (Oh, by the way, Chile has a plethora of free trade agreements including NAFTA. (That seems to help when you export your wine to the UK, Japan, Canada, Mexico, China the United States...) Argentina has...?
64 reality check (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
LEPRecon. I hear that the TROTTERS INDEPENDENT TRADING Co, are giving serious consideration to closing down their Argentinian business, before CFK nationalises their Digital Grandfather Clock Company. The CEO Delboy announced that, Overseas investment Manager Rodney, is currently engaged in high level negotiations with CFK. Unfortunately she would not accept the suitcase full of Pesos. The CEO Delboy was overheard by several journalists saying, “Plonker, I told him to take dollars, $10 dollars would have sorted it easy, Luvely Jubbly.”
65 Pugol-H (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
@ 26 tobias

Kebabs Tobias, kebabs with chilli sauce (Xtra Hot) and wikid strengf larger or cider if you prefer, speaking “Estuary English” sorted!

Whilst other countries do have effectively “Nationalised” oil/mining companies, they generally did not re-nationalise them, having de-nationalised them (for a price), with a promise (freely given) not to re-nationalise.

If Argentina now feels that for reasons of “vital national importance” it must re-nationalise YFP, then the issue becomes compensation.

Do you think Repsol will ever get a peso?

And why is this now so important all of a sudden, was this an issue even a year ago? Surly the oil business works on longer timescales than that.

If you start on the shale oil now you’ll get something in what, 10 years.

@ 53 GreekYoghurt
The price of Malbec is a reflection of the exchange rate rather than the quality of the wine.

Price likely to drop again in the near future, if there is another devaluation.

You are buying good quality Argintinian wine a comparatively much cheaper price than Tobias can in Argentina.

Maybe I could “culture up” a bit and try a pint or two of Malbec with me kebabs.
66 zulu99 (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
All of the talk of wine is lovely. The only problem is that all of the great wines in Argentina won't make up for all of the idiotic things going on there. So, the talk of wine is a nice aside, but nothing more than that.
67 Millet (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
How low can the country of Argentina go?- Millet USA
68 Chicureo (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 08:28 pm Report abuse
#66 You're right, but the point is that there are some good things about Argentina. I love vacationing is San Martin de los Andes. Sitting down for an “ojo de bife” with a bottle of Luigi Bosca Reserva Malbec at the Cabina las Lilas in Puerto Madero is one of my favorite things to do. With the coming devaluation, many of us will again take advantage of the economic mismanagement. I actually like Argentines, I just can't stomach their politics.
69 Max (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
@ 57
Your -- go -- word is not neccesary written in your sentence.

He says living in Britain ,but the Greek Yoghurt brand is known
and eaten only in California not anywhere else. Few Iranian / Greek origins families produce and home marketings Yoghurt there..
70 xbarilox (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
Lovely comments and lovely anger

@ 58 you are furious! I love your xenophobia hahaha
71 Conqueror (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
@49 So you're expecting your theft to show some benefits in around 75 years? Good idea that!
72 reality check (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
Sure i saw it advertised on TV here in UK the other night. Supposed to taste creamy, full fat, isn't it? if I remember the add right.
73 Britninja (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
@70 Anger? Hmm don't think so. I'd say the general mood is more “amused disbelief with a pinch of schadenfreude”.
74 ElaineB (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
@68 The last time I was in San Martin there was a power cut in the middle of dinner that lasted all night. An enterprising waiter drove his car up to the window with full headlights on so we could finish our meal - we had been trying to eat by touch - and we walked home by moonlight! The owner of the guest house was waiting for us with a bottle of wine and we talked through the night. The locals blamed BsAs for 'stealing' all the electricity. It was a fun night.

You are right, there are some great places in Argentina and one of my top ten places to relax and chill is in Argentina. Like you, I cannot stand their government, CFKC in particular and the foolish Argentines that support her.
75 Max (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
@ 74
I had heard it is Argentina style romantism sometimes to dinner in combination with the candles regulated by the authority......just an Argentine spirit.
76 tobias (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:25 pm Report abuse
@re: all the gratuitous commentary about Argentina since my last response:


Enjoy your Mcdinner everyone.
77 briton (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:01 pm Report abuse
Wine wine wine,
Just like Urine,
It goes in one end, and comes out the other end,
It smells good going in , and bad coming out .

Water my friends, water, save your selves loads a money .derr

justa joka at lunchi time . tee hee
78 Marcos Alejandro (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:21 pm Report abuse
@76 :-)))))
79 briton (#) Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:27 pm Report abuse
Alot can be spoken in 4.1/2 hours.
80 Max (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 08:30 am Report abuse
| 74 |
My advice to you......

81 McClick (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 08:47 am Report abuse
| 77 |

but the comments are mix about this Villa Nova Restaurant-NewportBeach/California.......

82 Max (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 08:58 am Report abuse
but my preference is...

83 McClick (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 09:11 am Report abuse
i think this is better and more qualified in all of them..best one !
who is [A Restaurant & A Market] Newportbech/California..

84 British_Kirchnerist (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 01:51 pm Report abuse
#22 Unfortunately I didn't vote for her as I'm not Argentine, but of course I would have, and campaigned for her too =)

As for Calderon this isn't really a surprise, he's one of the last right wing leaders left in Latin America, he's not been as bad as he could have been but he was hardly going to support nationalisation. Despite the fact that it worked for his own country as has been mentioned
85 DJ56 (#) Apr 18th, 2012 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
“All developing countries, we need investments and nobody in his right mind invests in a country which expropriates investments”

Says it all.
86 Pirat-Hunter (#) Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:46 am Report abuse
If investors can put money in Mexico I am sure Argentina will do fine, México should be more worried about the project 'gun runner' used by the CIA to kill mexican at the border and cause fear in the mexican population by murdering civilians and throwing them in mass graves, capitalist you expropiate their wealth and they run away you murder 50.000 Mexicans or colombianos and they fill your pockets with loans, what a joke.
87 DJ56 (#) Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
What on earth are you on about? Meaningless drivel!
88 toooldtodieyoung (#) Apr 23rd, 2012 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
87 DJ56

Don't disturb him!!! It's a vital part of his therapy........ It's taken us a long time to get him this far!!! You see the “almost” sentences he is using?

The next stage of his treatment will involve putting a cloth sack over his head and beating him with a rubber chicken until he sees / makes sence, I rather think that this 2nd stage may take some time................

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