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Montevideo, February 21st 2019 - 09:51 UTC

Argentine central bank announces “pesification” of real estate operations

Saturday, July 7th 2012 - 00:35 UTC
Full article 97 comments

Following the official new curbs on US dollar purchasing for savers, the head of the Argentine Central Bank Mercedes Marcó del Pont came on stage to defend the measure and anticipate that operations in the real estate market will have to be done in Argentine Pesos. Read full article


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  • Simon68

    The banks in Argentina don't lend money to us because they have no certainty that they'll get repaid.

    If the top 20 banks are forced to lend money at below par interest rates we'll have 20 banks less in Argentina by the end of the year!!!!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    This is like reading from “The Nightmare Years” byWilliam Shirer.

    Tinman, you should be afraid, very afraid... you've destroyed your brave father's legacy and tied yourself to a rock headed to the bottom of the South Atlantic.

    One SLOW train wreck happening over time-lapse...

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Some one tell me what this means in “real speak!”

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    It means that the currency in Argentina is Peso, and not dollar :)

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Well, Chilean Pesos and Mexican Pesos are safe...

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Ah so (no japanese pun intended) you now have to buy your house in pessos, shit why didn't she say so!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    It's a great deal. Buy a property in a currency that will be easy to repay as the debt will be less than half of real terms in less than one year...

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    No shit, any chance that Nat West will let me transfer the balance of my mortgage!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The main problem with paying in pesos for large purchases is you don't know what they will be worth from sale to settlement. Real estate sales are already dead stopped. This will make it worse(if anyone pays attention Rgs are not know to obey laws they don't like).

    Think hyper's coming ...and soon...

    Desperate people will be dumping property as the taxes, condo fee, utilities skyrocket... like 2001 but worse.

    Whatever is left of the middle class wealth will be wiped out while the rich get richer.


    Jul 07th, 2012 - 03:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0

    I love reading all the delusions of the islanders who dream and long for the disgraced Argentina! Poor fools .. Stop and visit spiritualist oracles .. Christians do not seem che!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 05:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    Well Xerxes, I think their dreams have been answered....your country is going to shit in a handbag 30% inflation, a massive structural deficit and what ho.....your going into recession soon :) quite an achievement for a country which until recently was boasting 9% growth and a budget surplus of $40 billion last year.

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    Ah so!
    I read it as 'pestification' ...... I'm sure this must say something about me :-(

    You have to feel sympathy for the common man, in the face of this 's... storm'. And perhaps for the leaders, trying every tactic known to man trying to make things better but seeing them get inexorably worse.

    I like Chicureo's (#2) analogy:
    'One SLOW train wreck happening over time-lapse...'
    and am just hoping the the UK economy is not experiencing its own 'boiled frog' demise.

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Max

    Pesofication !

    very normal operation..........

    like once Mexico did it .!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    The poor sods who have the 'courage' aka stupidity to trade in pesos in real estate will need an 18 tonne truck to move them all. Don't even think that devaluation will make a difference, someone will find a way to overcome that.

    Another great move by The Mad Bitch Of Argentina.

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    Funny, a week ago there were a total of 726 properties offered for sale in our local newspaper's classified section, today there are 73!!!!!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Simon, I have a friend in San Isidro selling Real Estate and it has been dead stopped for awhile the poor guy is waiting tables to get by now.

    Real Estate is a big driver in an economy this little move could be the one that throws ARG into deep recession or depression. Everyone is predicting a recession and P$7/1 before the end of the year. I think it will be worse.

    As usual it all depends on the unpredictable weather, if this cold snap lasts 3 weeks you may be in utter chaos by Aug as nat gas supply runs short and the BCRA reserves are quickly depleted.

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • scarfo

    Furthermore, Marcó del Pont played down the impact of measures by affirming that “those who buy dollars make up a very small minority of the Argentine population”.

    The goverment and ruling classes!!!

    Jul 07th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    It Makes sense to have real state trades made in local currency, I don't know what's making everyone so insecure about Argentina's economic policies, if things where better in other countries the world wouldn't be in the big mess we are all in, lets enjoy the fruits of our labor in pesos I don't know many Argentine's who get paid in dollars unless you worked outside.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KFC de Pollo

    @16 its already $6/1 in the real market.

    This wont make a difference to people wanting to buy property. They'll just convert the price to pesos at the black market rate. they problem is for the seller to get his pesos into a real currency as fast as they can!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • scarfo


    I don't know what's making everyone so insecure about Argentina's economic policies,


    where to start!!!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    I know what it is.
    To sum it up, the more SA keeps, the less the western world gets.
    That's what hurts...

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Guzz, I must be missing something, care to explain how local real estate transactions would have anything to do with “the western world”?

    Have you ever read an economics book? Maybe instead of concentrating on languages you should try a more rounded education and study some math, history and economics.

    You'll finally be able to grasp why I keep saying Arg is doomed with no way out.

    19. Your are right, I think people will just price it in U$ anyway then convert it to $P at the time of the settlement at the leak rate.

    What I used to do when I bought/sold property was to accept and pay for property between USA accounts. Seems like almost everyone had USA bank account so we could keep the $ transaction out of Arg. Very rarely did I go to a settlement with a suitcase of cash, I did it a couple of times but it is so risky! Too many prying eyes and big mouths but I had a really big scary driver waiting at the bank door for me which made me a little more secure.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    “Everyone is predicting a recession and P$7/1 before the end of the year. I think it will be worse.”

    Like, just guessing, 10-14 to 1 rate by June 30th, 2012?


    Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh, Toby If I could tell you exactly when things would happen I would be a billionaire. Unfortunately I am not!
    I just guess and usually I am more right than wrong but I would never bet U$ against my guessing.
    I will tell you something that is for sure, the Are Peso will be closer to 10/1 than it is 1/1 by the end of the year.

    BTW did all 550K BA Provincial employees strike for their bonus or was it just a couple 100K? Did I hear that they're considering printing Patacones?
    Didn't I guess that a few months ago too? It's coming I just don't know the exact date...

    One thing you told me a long time ago was the streets in Mendoza are so clean because they use Kerosene every night on them. I asked you if they knew they were creating an environmental hazard but you never got back with me. Care to answer now?

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    Any “residue” of kerosene (which is not industrial kerosene, it is a much lighter version), is nothing compared to the industrial oil and chemicals left behind in the hundreds of sq. kilometers of parking lots in your country for example, where instead of 1 car per family there is 1 car per person.

    Worse environmental runoff right there.

    Power back in DC btw?

    uuuufffff (hot)

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You do know those areas without power were caused by a huge storm and not gov't mismanagement right? Do you know the difference? I never lost power and my house is COLD.

    I know the system works here and if it is down from a disaster someone is fixing it. We don't automatically pile into the streets banging pots if something goes wrong. That's the difference in living in a civilized society Are you jealous or embarrassed it's Hard to tell.

    When do you think the electric companies will be nationalized? I hear that BA Province owes them 30MM so they can't pay their suppliers.
    How awful!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    I have a little video for you yankeeboy. It is about your life, and the life of all others here enjoying their “civilized” societies.

    Hahaha, stop being a hypocrite. You well know had Buenos Aires been partly without power for a WEEK, everyone here would be glowing in calling out the incompetence of the argie worker, the electric cos, etc.

    You pay FULL prices for electricity and still get awful response time, in your capital city no less??


    Neither jealous nor embarrassed. Argentines would kill themselves before becoming a society like yours, with nothing to look forward to in life.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I pay fair market price for electricity. I cost me about $100/mo. for a decent sized house and in 6 years I have not even had a flicker. I think the service is pretty darn good.
    When I lived in BA we lost power 2-3 times a year right downtown! There was also a HUGE power failure that was super scary! We were eating dinner and the owners closed the gates so that we wouldn't be ransacked!
    When I lived in the Znorte we lost power a lot. Sometimes for days! I had to call a very very high gov't official to get me moved to the top of the list to get back on after 5 days without power.
    Also 2x when they came to restore the power the RG idiots gave me 330 volts instead of 220 and blew all of my electronics! 2X!! Those kinds of things don't happen here.

    Methinks the 250K Rgs living in Miami alone would disagree and love living here. You should see the wailing and carrying on when ICE makes them leave. Appalling.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @27 “Argentines would kill themselves before becoming a society like yours, with nothing to look forward to in life. ” Such a silly comment. You are doing that narcissist's thing again where you believe everyone thinks the same as you. How can you speak for 40m people?

    If I had a pound sterling for every Argentine that has asked me if I can help them get a job in England ...... Look, there is nothing wrong with being proud of being an Argentine and it is perfectly normal to love the country you were born in. But the truth is many Argentines get a much better quality of life in the US. The Argentine waiter serving me in Miami last night said that to me. He loves Argentina but can earn a much better wage and have a greater quality of life for his family by waiting tables in Miami. That doesn't make him a traitor to his country, just a realist getting off his backside and doing the best for his family.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Life is about sacrifices, more wages, less living. More living, less wages.

    I won't deny that.

    What you won't sell to me is that you people are happier. You simply are not. Again, you live for the system, and not for your living. Very different indeed.

    This song explains your lives well. In fact, if you Elaine are in fact who you say, then it is the perfect song for you. If you had any family, you sure never get or got to spend any quality time with them.

    Some people want that lifestyle fine. I don't. Nor do I really care about not working... I just work for myself, to improve myself, not others pockets.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, Whether you realize it or not you are VERY jealous of USA UK citizens.
    You want what we have, good governance, stability, the ability to succeed, good universities, able to travel anytime anywhere etc etc.
    It is plain to see that is why you hate us so much.

    You know you are stuck in an forgotten province in a 3rd world country 13 hours by plane to civilization and you have no way to remedy that awful situation. That is why you claim to abhor our decadent, lifeless, soulless and uncaring society yadda yadda yadda.

    It is sad, it sounds like the Soviets during the cold war. They hated America and as soon as they could they tried to be like us. Too bad like them Argentina can not and will not ever be like the USA.

    It's just plain jealousy, sorry kid you need to grow up.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    I am really glad Argentina is turning to local currency for a economic strategy with a move like this Argentina will be sittings in the driver sit of their economy for year to come. No wonder all this english posters are so worryed about Argentina.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @30 I have just had a holiday with friends and family, thanks. They too can afford to fly and take holidays. It might also be a revelation to you to know that it is possible to have friends and family in many countries, as I do.

    You really do have a very small world and mind. Try travelling and you might just learn that first-hand experience creates a tolerance and understanding of other cultures.

    If you don't bother to work then someone else is carrying you and paying your way in the world. Why not get off your backside and contribute, rather than just leeching off others?

    btw I never click on links on a discussion board.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    A local Argentina peso will soon be worth about one grain of beach sand equal to one Argentina peso. And there are lots of sand grains on Argentina beaches.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    Wrong. Argentina was never communist, it could have tried to become like the USA any time. We choose not too. Chile, Brazil, Mexico, etc all do try to emulate you from the fast food to the skyscrapers, to their love of rap.

    That's fine, I don't judge. I don't think many people look up at the USA anymore, anyway. People love the up and comers (China, Brazil, Russia, Dubai, India), not the have beens even if they still are on top. Because from the top you can only go in one direction, and people don't find that sexy.

    This forgotten province is where all your Colorado ski buddies come this time of year to get additional work or training. This forgotten province is also one of the seven designated great world wine region. This forgotten province is where summits like Mercosur, Unasur, and historic matches like the first Rugby Championship match in the Americas will take place, as well as one of the first World Cup qualifyiers outside Buenos Aires. This forgotten province is seat of the UNC, which heads the department of the Balseiro institute, which is a major force in companies like INVAP for nuclear use. This forgotten provinces produces the world's largest hydro turbines, and even small airplanes now (not assembly, our own design). And is now a world powerhouse in wine exports.

    We even have an “Americana” tex-mex food festival in february during the Wine month, along with food festivals from dozens of other countries.

    And many of us adore the fact we are in a pristine corner of the world, away from all your wars, pollution, and radiation.


    I'm afraid my English for a rare occasion there faild me. I used the wrong preposition. I meant to say I don't care if I don't work IF I am furthering myself. I used to work three jobs seven days a week for almost four years from age 17 on (I graduated school a year early, long story). About 60-65 hours a week, plus then studying history and science at home. I don't need lectures from you.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @35 You are so wrong. There is still only ONE superpower in the world and that is the USA. Sure, the BRICS are up and coming but they are not there yet and it will be decades before there is any real challenge to the balance of power. (I actually think it is more healthy to have more than one superpower but it hasn't happened since the collapse of the USSR). I doubt the USA will lose its power - seriously, if you think that you have been truly misinformed - but there will be other economic superpowers. Argentina will never be one of them.

    If you had any first-hand knowledge of the countries you just listed you would know they still have a very long way to go. Russia is the weakest link but Brazil is looking ever more precarious. China and India may get there but both suffer huge poverty issues that will make the road ahead difficult.

    I like Mendoza but it ain't all that when you have travelled and seen far more beautiful and pleasant places to live. I agree you have great, mostly foreign owned, wineries. Still, it is good to know you are satisfied with so little and there are far worse places to live.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    The USA will break up in the next 60-80 years.

    All I know Mendoza much better than anywhere in Europe. For one, it rains clear water, not acidulated resin. Your poor attempts at veiled insults only show your jealousy.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    China, Brazil, Russia, Dubai, India I have been to all of those countries. They're all dangerous filthy places, not every square inch of them but you would not catch me walking around San Paulo by myself at night. Try NOT getting sick in India, it is impossible! People defecate on the STREETS! And they have monkeys running around everywhere! China is an environmental disaster, the US embassy has a code system to let you know if it is safe to leave your house because you can't breath the air!!! Dubai is cool but who would want to live under that kind of regime or in that heat? Russia is a kleptocracy and Moscow is SUPER dangerous. You can not go outside of the touristy areas! No thanks.
    They're not anything like EU, UK USA and we have 10s of 1000 or 100s of 100s immigrants FROM those countries every year. So we must still be doing something right.
    Mendoza is pretty but you have to admit it is very remote. I would bet except for the surrounding SA countries there are few people that could find it on a map. Good gracious most people from the northern hemisphere can find Argentina!
    It is funny how you bring up these tiny companies and organizations like they mean something to an outsider. And this dichotomy that you don't care about the USA then telling me you get lots of US tourists there and have a tex mex festival of all things.
    You are a strange ignorant boy.
    Go travel so you can really see the places that you hate so at least you can have an informed opinion you're making yourself look ridiculous.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    I find it amusing that yankeeboy and Elaine advise me to travel to the places I “hate” before making opinions.

    It is almost as if they are encouraging me NOT to be like them, an admission they are flawed individuals. Since they both claim to have travelled to Arentina, yet 99% of what they mutter is utter lies, wild exaggerartions, and always the bad, never the good.

    In other words, they have followed their own advice yet still are incapable of informed opinion.

    Mendoza is remote, that is part of the charm.

    Everyone has their own opinions, and there is no universal right or wrong in tastes. Though sometimes people like Elaine do make attempts at shoehorning their opinion as fact

    “Still, it is good to know you are satisfied with so little and there are far worse places to live.”

    And her opinion is unassailable because... :)

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, I lived In Arg for 5 years, I have been to every province except Salta. I never lie.
    Care to explain why/how the USA will break up in 60-80yrs? That is about the dumbest post I have ever heard and I would love to hear the explanation.
    Mendoza is like Colorado/Utah/Idaho nice places but I wouldn't want to live there. If you like it great! But don't bash a place until you have seen it for real.
    I have seen almost all of Arg probably more than most of it's own citizens. I know of what I speak.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    The USA will break from within, you well know regional differences are only going to get bigger, both on religion and political philosophy. Add to that rising tensions over dwindling federal resources and the resentment of well run regions subsidizing regions in debt... I think it is just demographically inevitable, it is not a matter of a foreign power coming in or just some bad luck. I think Russia will break up as well somewhat.

    China may not because they have a massive war chest military to impose on, but one cannot underestimate the power of people.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Your ignorance is showing again. I would love to know what crazy web sites you read!

    How can there be regional differences when people move everywhere in the USA? My family lives in GA, CA, NY, ,MO, FL & CO and I have lived in MI, MO, NY, DC, IL since I left college! Most everyone I know has a 2nd house in another part of the country. What you're saying proves your total lack of understanding of the USA.

    We don't have regional religions or political philosophies never have never will.

    I can't even try to answer this because you basic understanding of the USA is so utterly f'cked up.

    Good grief!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Yay! Now you know how I feel about all of you here on a daily basis!


    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Yeah but I know what I am talking about you don't.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    At best you are an ultracrepidarian, yankeeboy. Just because you are an “expert” in one area like finance, and you are talking about the finances of country X, doesn't mean you are an expert in EVERYTHING about country X, including all that which is non-finance.

    Same applies to everyone else here. Living as a foreigner in Argentina for a small period of time is not grounds to understand the people, especially when argentines usually put up a front to foreigners and do not get too personal with them.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    The sad part about you, TTT, is that I have seen far more of your country than you have or ever likely will.

    If I thought Mendoza was THE best place to live I could live there, I have that choice. It isn't. It is a nice place to visit.

    You display a very narrow-minded view of the world without any life experience to set your bigoted opinions against. Open your mind just a little and you would see how silly your statements are.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    There is nothing sad about being at least 3 decades younger, I have no doubt you would give all those travels for the chance to be 20s again. Given I probably will be more sucessful and the easier travel in my time than in yours, I doubt your predictions will be true.

    And who know, maybe even I have already seen more of it than you. How would you know? Hacked into my facebook account? (oh, but I don't have one, too bad)

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, I would have a lot more respect for you and your posts if you lived in the USA for 5-6 yrs then commented.
    I have great RG friends and I know your country and people VERY well. There is not one that I know what would not jump at the opportunity to move to the USA either for a job or to further their education. Most of my friends are well educated have decent jobs yet it takes them years to pay for a brief trip to visit!

    Learning about a place reading half baked web sites is not working for you. You should come here to see it for real. Most SA that I have brought to NYC are gobsmacked. They have never even dreamed of a city like it!

    Then there is Chicago, DC, Philly, Miami, LA, San Fran, Houston, NOLA, Denver on and on and on. The wealth is astounding to most foreigners even people from UK EU.
    The Smithsonian Museum complex is a wonder! If you want to see Original paintings of just about any well known artist they're all there. You would be amazed it takes weeks/months to see it all.

    People tend to read sites, articles etc that they already agree with and it is plain to see that is exactly what you do. You need to expand your mind a bit before you try to talk to the grown ups. You're like talking to a 15 y/o know it all and it gets very tedious.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    I'm not impressed by opulence, and especially overt opulence. I am one of those people that if they could purchase a carrera would still drive a Passat. I'm being real here this is not to contradict you. I would be impressed with architecture, so I do find skyscrapers for example very worthy of observation.

    This is the problem, you want me to fawn at the USA, I won't. That does not mean there are not some very praiseworthy things about it, and I don't generally comment about specific aspects of culture, just very global ones which apply to entire societies. I'm sure there is much to do in New York, but so is there in Beijing, Moscow, Mexico City, Istambul, Paris, London, etc... its not about wealth, its the people that make somewhere interesting.

    Sorry, I just don't worship money so I simply don't understand the allure of it. I just need enough of it to have the freedom to pursue knowledge. I'm more of a nerd than a posh, I guess.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Either I am not being clear or you are being obtuse.

    Think about anything you like or want to learn more about, whatever it is I can pretty much guarantee that it is in the Smithsonian or another museum that specializes on that subject somewhere in the USA.
    There is no where else in the world that can say that.
    If you like art we have more Monet in Philly than they do in France! More Picasso than Spain etc etc etc. Whatever you want to see or study it is here.

    Think about this in all of South American there may be +/-10 Picassos on public display in various countries, we have probably a couple hundred just at the MOMA? I am not even sure. It's not the wealth that should impress you it is the vastness of it!

    You should also realize that most of the public art museaums were started by great private collections that were eventually donated to the institution for the betterment of the Society in general.

    That is the marvel of the USA!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Well, you did come from a period in which the USA was wealthier than Europe, and with a similar demographic scale. So it is no surprise since money attracts money (law number 1), that what you describe may be the case. You don't see much movement of art these days because the balances of wealth are currently quite even and in a state of flux. There is no one clear cut place right now gobbling up all the arts.

    I would not be surprised if in 50-100 years there are more Dali's in China, and more American pop and Hollywood art in Shanghai than LA, as Chinese billionaires buy it and patriate it over there. It's the flow of money through time.

    All it says is China had the economic scale to attract this. It doesn't mean they are better than the USA.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    You are full of it :)
    There is no way in life they could have given you 330V instead of 220V in Argentina. Just not possible :)
    In a 400V grid the currents are 400V between phase and phase, and 230 (220)V between phase and ground. The numbers for a 220V grid is 220/110, and for a 690V grid 690/400V.
    330V is just not possible and you are lying :)

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I am not an electrician that's what my housekeeper told me they told her. All I know all of the light bulbs got really bright and my electronics were fried before I could get the breaker box off. It was a mess and cost me 1000s of U$ to replace everything TWICE!! Stuff like that is why I eventually moved back to the USA.

    Toby, China will fail it is already heading down hill fast and everything they have done so far to keep it propped up are not working. They have 1000s of riots WEEKLY! It is just a matter of time beofre the riots spread from the countryside to the cities and it will be unemployment and inflation that brings it down.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    I would not be surprised that in the next few years much art is sold from the USA by cities and governments to make money, in fact entire buildings. That is happening all over Europe now. I did read somewhere that art is in fact flowing from the USA to Russia, Persian Gulf, and China.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    That's the issue, all your “facts” are really second hand information from a random housekeeper.
    Bet the gardener tought you history as well :)

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    In general cities/state/Fed don't own art collections they are held by private institutions/trusts/non-profits. They may have local city/state specific art collections but selling them wouldn't bring enough revenue to bother and it would be political suicide.
    The Federal gov't and State/Local gov't are selling off unused property as they should. Why hold onto bldgs you don't need and can't collect tax revenue on them. Trump just bought an amazing post office to put a hotel in, exactly what should be happening! Public expense turns into Private Profit! I hope they do more of it and quickly!
    I have not heard much art is flowing from USA to other places. We are still the richest country in the world BY FAR. I am sure there are some people that may be selling collections but who cares if its private, they can sell to anyone they want. You probably don't realize that living where you do.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    I do admit I may not, I am a remote bumpkin afterall.

    Wherever I read that it didn't said it was a flood, just a general trend with the pop-up millionaires in the Gulf, Moscow, and eastern China.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LightThink

    certain that you hear siren voices in every 5 minutes ,
    might be you pull yourself through the internet from outer funks.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @47 Your guesses are way off. It is interesting that you think you have to be old to be well-travelled. Maybe in Argentina but in the UK it is very normal for people to be well-travelled from a young age. In general we don't suffer from zenophobia and like to experience a wide range of cultures.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    When a woman says your guess is way off (especially in age), it means I hit it right on the nailhead.

    Argentina is the only country in the world that has all ecosystems in its continental landmass, and you can find communities of all european countries, middle eastern countries, latin american countries, ex-pat anglos, and communities of the main asian nations, plus jews and muslims. With the perhaps glaring exception of Indian culture and more africans, one does not have to ever leave Argentina to experience a bit of the world culturally and naturally.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    How... Argentinian of you...

    By the way, the young Europeans may have travelled a lot, it doesn't necessarily mean they are well-travelled.
    A vast majority of their travels ends in destinations as Canary Islands, Mallorca, Ibiza, Thailand and Sunny Beach.
    Their cultural experience being embraced with huge amounts of alcohol, resulting in the probable outcome of the youth knowing less about their destination when they get back home, than they knew when they departed...

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, If you think you can experience the whole world in Argentina you are very very mistaken. It is like saying I have been everywhere because I went to Disney/Epcot except Disney is clean.
    Geesh you are so full of yourself it is revolting.
    You are seriously like a 15 y/o know it all teen girl. You must get beat up a LOT!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    I did not say it would be the same, but if there was one country where you could sort of get away with it, we are one of a handful (one hand) of countries you could. Which is why I carefully inserted the word “bit”.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    LOL! @ TTT. Yeah, you sound like you have a lot of experience with women; not.

    @62. Exactly. It is truly worrying that some Argentines are so inward looking and brainwashed into thinking they never need to go anywhere else. The indoctrination is extreme. Make them think they need never leave Argentina and they will never discover how bad it is compared to other countries.

    Interestingly, Argentines that have travelled have a completely different perspective. One I know well summed it up by saying, “they have no idea how backward they are”. A bit harsh but I guess ignorance is bliss.

    @61 ? You know some very pedestrian people. I am talking about the young world travellers, working and volunteering all over the world; there are many from the UK.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    So tell me how bad we have it...

    Because we don't wake up every day under the threat of terrorism?
    Because we actually own what we possess instead of everything being on a credit card, car loan, or mortgage, two payments away from repo?
    Because we don't have sky-high suicide rates like in Europe?
    Because we never have had a mas shooting at a center of education?
    Because we don't have to hear from dead ones from pointless wars in some Afghan canyon?
    Because we have not been in recession for the last 5 years like most of you?
    Because we actually have clean air and not one filled with acid rain and radioactive fallout?

    You tell me, why is Argentina so bad according to you? You are just an insecure femme colere that seems to enjoy ripping Argentina every chance you get. Don't you notice you NEVER have anything good to say? I think your problems are obvious with us.

    I think you don't realize how bad you actually have it compared to me. Because money is blinding you dear. That is FAR a worser fate.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine, It is a definitely indoctrination, a sense of self-importance with a little delusion thrown in for good measure.

    There is a little amusement park in Tigre that my friends swore was a good as any in the USA. It is like our traveling carnivals just a little more dangerous! I never said anything tho :) But the same can be said at just about anything.
    Standing in my new apt, I could see the obelisco, french ambassador's residence and the river, the real estate agent said “its just like NYC huh?” My response was “you have obviously never been there”. He didn't like that!
    Or Corrientes like Times Square or Mar Del Plata like Miami or Las Lenas like Vail. It like explaining color to the blind. They will never understand until they can see for themselves.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    I don't take any credits from those marvels of people taking on such jobs, but you are implying this is a normal behaviour within UK's youth, and that is not the fact. Normal behaviour are those destinations I mentioned. Those other you talk about are jewels, rare and precious.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    They've done it again!!!! Tobias you're a past master at this trolling business, and Guzz you're a great back-up.

    Yankeeboy and Elaine, shame on you for being trolled so successfully by the champion malvinistas!!!!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    Exactly, like comparing the Rockies to the Argentine Andes.
    Or USDA to even the most ruinous argentine cut of beef.
    Or Zinfandel as “America's Malbec” (LOL)
    Or Niagara just as good as Iguazu
    Or Barrow Alaska just as captivating as Ushuaia

    Or as three american girls I saw once at a walmart told me during a conversation “should go to my state Kansas, looks just like your Pampas”

    Then I googled some pictures and it was depressing, no cowbowys and every centimeter or the joint, barbe-wired. I chuckled.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, Where is this bad air you keep talking about? Have you ever been to BA? The diesel fumes from the buses would knock you over!
    We may buy expensive stuff on credit but we CERTAINLY DON”T buy food in 6 quotas like you do in Argentina. Plus interest on your credit cards is like 40% or something ours is 5%! Your mortgage are 15-20% and our are 3.5-4% FOR 39 years! Yes we move out of our parents house and buy our own in our 20s and our 2nd home in our 40s. Gasp!
    Hmm shall we talk recession, Argentina's started in Nov 11 and I bet is lasts for a lot longer than 5 yrs. You have not seen anything yet!

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Los adultos estan hablando, carajo!
    Anda a jugar afuera.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    HAHAHAHAHA. Home ownership in your country is declining rapidly and you with your fairytales of people buying a 2nd home by 40. Who exactly do you think believes any of it? :o

    Why do people keep asking me where have I been? I have never said if I have left Mendoza city even, and I won't because none of you deserve to be privy to that sort of information here.

    But I'm tired of this stupid and unintellectual he said-she said (she is yankeeboy).

    Let's assume for a moment that I give up, and say ”yankeeboy, yes, you are BETTER and SUPERIOR at everything over us (Argentina)”. Same applies to the UK, or other odd European present here.

    What is it that you achieve with that, exactly?

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @68 LOL, yeah, I know but it is fun getting TTT to reveal so much about himself. He doesn't even remember telling us.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    I know exactly what I have disclosed or not. You are way above your league here Elaine. Don't think you are in control.

    I have told you I know and am learning several languages, that I'm certainly young, that I am most likely in school, that I have worked in the past as I didn't immediately attend college, and that have dated a french girl in the armee de l'air, and been a bit with a British girl from Sunderland and that they speak funny there, in addition to other foreign girls that just find argie men irresistible. I've obviously been in Santiago and told Chichuero that.

    None of what I revealed above can tell you precisely anything about me. But I know much more about all of you, from your ages, to your jobs, to your traveling status, to how much money you claim to have... not because I am a genius, you all coudn't help yourselves flaunting it here.

    I OTOH have revealed NOTHING about my personal financial situation.

    Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine we have been outsmarted by Dora the Explorer, gad what has the world come to...

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    You dodged my question, and rather artlessly.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    As I said earlier:
    One SLOW train wreck happening over time-lapse...

    TTT: What does it matter if you've told me you've been to Santiago? Why are you so defensive? Frankly, you really should open your eyes to the reality that your dear country is headed for destruction.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Funny, I have not read one single international report that indicates we are heading for destruction. In fact there is only one place in the whole planet I hear that word: here.

    You tell me how much I should take that seriously :)

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    Lol you got to laugh at tobias (TTT) “The USA will break up 60-80 years”. He clearly forgets all about the differences between provinces in argentina. Tell us TTT, as argentina are clearly heading towards the economic scrap heap, whats to stop the provinces of argentina breaking away from the Argentina, after all isn't your country just made up of states like the USA is?

    Your comment about the USA is like saying argentina will break up in 1-2 years, which to be honest is a very real scenario, after all 1 economic disaster in 2001 is forgivable by the leaders of the provinces, but 2 in in just over 10 years, is not. Many provinces will decide they are better off on their own then they are with a central government that has proven itself incapable of running an economy.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #78 TTT
    Do you ever read what the rest of the world's economists are reporting about your country? Oh yes, you can perfectly ignore them, but you can't stop the economic disaster coming...
    Even with booming economies, Brazil and Chile are stimulating their financial markets. Your country is doing the opposite...

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    74 Truth_Telling_Troll

    You've been with a girl from Sunderland. Brilliant, can't stop giggling over than one...

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @74 TTT

    Ok so you have heard of sunderland, you say they speak funny their - I say they speak english, just because they have a region accent, like most countries have regional accents including argentina, i hardly say they talk funny. Plus just becuase you allege to have had a bit of a romance with a girl from sunderland, one it doesn't make you irresitable, but what you say online to back yourself up, is just as likely to be made up as argentinas claims to the falklands are.

    As for you still being in school - Well given you seem to be on here the majority of the time, in fact the kind of hours you spend on here is similar to those i would expect from someone that is unemployed, and therefore not the kind of hours id expect to see from someone still in school/colledge/university, unless of course you have 7-8 hour break times.

    And as for “But I know much more about all of you, from your ages, to your jobs, to your traveling status, to how much money you claim to have” - Proof it, whats my name? how old am i? how much money in total do i have? what do i do for a living? Where do i live (full address only as stating the UK would be simply stating the obivious!) - I think your answers will be vague to say the least, therefore proving you know no more about myself or other posters here, then we do about you.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    Elaine, don't tease TTT, it's so unfair.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @83 Yes, you are right, I shall try to restrain myself from winding him up. I was bored at the airport if that is any justification.

    TTT makes assumptions based on his prejudices, inferiority complex and narrow-minded view of the world. Enough said on the subject.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    The rest of the world's “economists” are argie-haters, have been since the default of 2002. You have to really question their words, especially since I've heard “DESTRUCTION!” is coming, ever since about 2005. They may have some valid points, but they have really lost much credibility.

    None of that means I believe CFK's minions either. But that means both destruction on the one side, and prosperity without end on the other meet in the middle to give you... reality.


    You guys do know that claques are for intellectual idiots. If I stick a sign on a child's back that reads “kick me”, and my buddies applaud me for it, it does not make my actions any smarter. It just means both me AND my friends are dunces. Food for thought GeoffWard2 when you engage in sequacious spurring on of other's comments to make them seem “smarter”... It's an easy game to detect.

    Elaine things she wound me up? I've think you've travelled too much and need a date to recalibrate your emo-meter. I tell you right now, it is woefully “pas au point”.


    Excuse you? Yesterday, a SUNDAY, I was here. I wasn't here before all week! LOL, Why are any of you here? shoudn't you be working your 70 hours too fulfill that vaunted anglo-saxon productivity?

    As for @81, it doesn't help when the British themselves trash their own women's reputations. Yes, there are some pretty women in the UK. Don't let the rest of the world make you think otherwise.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard


    You have no idea what I was giggling about do you? I thought someone as “clever” as you would know not to make assumptions...

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    85. Dora, So on one hand you have not read any Int'l articles about Argentina's imminent demise, then when they're confirmed you say they are all RG haters and they lie.

    CFKs indoctrination has a firm hold on your weak mind.

    You are pathetic.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit86

    Pathetic is a guy who spends 5 years in a country, is incapable of learning the local language, can't read any newspaper of his host country, but still thinks he's some kind of expert of that country, which he hates because he had his watch stolen there.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll


    No I don't, I'm not an expert in British intra-regional squabbles and stereotypes. Sorry, you are not the center of the Universe, shock shock.


    What? Make some sense if you want me to answer, don't write drunk.

    So because I don't believe Argentina is about to be “destroyed”, I'm indoctrinated? No, YOU are the indoctrinated one, fact.


    I think he is bitter about not getting the rock star treatment. American males think they can go anywhere in Latin America and be drooled upon. That may be the case which girls in Mexico, Colombia (see US Secret Service), Venezuela, Peru, maybe even Chile and Brazil... but Argentina? LOL, most women are much too demanding, especially in BA and the other big cities. They ain't impressed by a an empty suit. I think I figured out his linguering rancor.

    Jul 09th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zhivago

    89 Troll
    Argentina reminds me a lot of Russia in the 90's. It was very easy to spend a 50$ bill in MarDelPlata in may, anything to augment the family income! And these were not “pros”!

    Jul 10th, 2012 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    89 Truth_Telling_Troll

    OK so you were just commenting on something you have no idea about...sounds pretty standard.

    Jul 10th, 2012 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Marplatenses are known for their meretriciousness, that's nothing that will surprise anyone in Argentina. Don't think you can go anywhere else and try it out though.

    On the other hand, English girls don't even charge a cover.

    Jul 10th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zhivago

    Troll, Let's see, Rosario, Villa Carlos Paz, Salta... and thats only in the last two years! I'm not English stupid.

    Jul 10th, 2012 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    This pessification seems good to me, to get back on topic =)

    Jul 11th, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Luis Libertarian

    I have lived here all my life. Prices will be in Pesos at the black market rate. Nothing good in Arg survives ten years nothing bad either. By the way guys nationalities and borders should be a matter of the past.

    Jul 12th, 2012 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KretinaK

    Typical day in Buenos Aires, leave my house and I get approached by guys trying to wash my car's windshield with a bottle of dirty water and a ratty sponge at every single one of the 3 traffic lights from my house to the entrance to the highway. Get off at the exit near the center, and again approached by some really dirty little kids banging my car windows with their fists asking for money. I drive up to the garage near my office where I park and there is a demonstration so I can't drive in, I park on a dirty side street and get out, get approached by a guy waving a rag saying he “watches the cars” and holds his hand out for money. I get to my office and there is a guy sitting on the sidewalk shaking a can asking for money. I get to my office exasperated at all of the begging start working and one of the admin assistants asks to speak to me, and her angry tone is evident from the beginning of the conversation. She begins to tell me how she found out her co-worker earns $700 pesos more per month and demands a raise! I tell her to speak to Human Resources. I go out to lunch to a pizzeria on Av. Corrientes, in 30 minutes I get asked by 2 people to buy them pizza and 2 others put some junk items on my table trying to sell me things. On the way home a repeat performance of the beggars, window washers, and assorted annoying traffic on the panamericana and the broken toll booths. Argentina is such a total dump of a country, the best thing that could happen is an invasion of ANY country, it's a total s**thole that needs to bee wiped clean and start all over again. 6 more months and I get transferred back home to Australia!! Hooray!!

    Jul 12th, 2012 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    96 KretinaK

    I can't believe that!

    ALL the Malvanistas swear that BsAs streets are paved with gold and the sun always shines, even at night, etc.

    Oh! Do you think they have been lying all this time?

    Say hello to Oz for me when you get back to civilisation.

    LOL :o)

    Jul 12th, 2012 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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