Friday, August 17th 2012 - 07:16 UTC

Latam support for Ecuador could turn Assange case in another ‘Falklands issue’ for UK

Another major diplomatic conflict between South America and the UK, as with the Falkland Islands’ sovereignty dispute, could turn nasty following Latinamerican strong support for Ecuador and its granting of political asylum to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange and London’s explicit determination to deny him a safe conduct and have him extradited to Sweden.

Ecuadorean minister Patiño confirmed a round of regional organizations meetings

On Thursday Assange described Ecuador’s decision to grant him political asylum as a “significant and historic victory”, but UK Foreign Secretary William Hague made it clear that Assange would not be allowed safe passage out of Britain.

Assange has been taking refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy for the past two months after facing extradition to Sweden on allegations of sexual assault. He denies the claims and fears being sent to the United States if he goes to Sweden.

Wikileaks spokesperson Kristinn Hrafnsson announced that on Sunday Assange will be making a personal statement from the Ecuadorean embassy garden, “his first appearance in public since last March”.

Foreign Secretary Hague said that Assange would not be allowed safe passage out of the UK despite the asylum decision, and that diplomatic immunity should not be used to harbour alleged criminals.

Meanwhile several Latinamerican organizations have announced extraordinary meetings to address the dispute and what has been interpreted by some countries as UK threats of “raiding” the Ecuadorean embassy in London to catch Assange and have him sent to Sweden as was determined by a British court.

On Friday the Permanent Council of the Organization of American States (OAS) will meet in Washington to consider calling a Consultation meeting of Foreign Affairs ministers to address “the situation between Ecuador and the UK surrounding the granting of diplomatic asylum to Julian Assange”.

Ecuador OAS ambassador María Isabel Salvador proposed the meeting to consider “threats by the UK against Ecuador and its diplomatic premises in that country,” after Quito granted diplomatic asylum to Julian Assange, who has been in the embassy of Ecuador in London since June 19, 2012.

Ambassador Salvador said Ecuador received a written communication from the UK warning the government of Quito it ”should be aware that there is a legal basis in the United Kingdom, the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act of 1987, which would allow us to take action to arrest Mr. Assange in the existing facilities of the embassy”.

The proposal was supported by all members with the exception of US and Canada that argues it is a bilateral issue between Ecuador and UK.

Likewise this weekend the Foreign Affairs ministers from ALBA (Bolivarian Alliance for our America) the brainchild of Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez and of which Ecuador is member will be holding an extraordinary meeting in Guayaquil to address the diplomatic dispute.

And on Sunday, Unasur, the Union of South American Nations (a creation of Brazilian diplomacy) Foreign ministers will also be gathering at Guayaquil to consider the situation. The round of meetings was confirmed by Ecuadorean Foreign minister Ricardo Patiño.

Before the granting of asylum Ecuadorian ministers had already accused the UK of threatening to attack the embassy to seize Assange, after it emerged that the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 could allow revocation of a building's diplomatic status if the foreign power occupying it “ceases to use land for the purposes of its mission or exclusively for the purposes of a consular post”.

Under international law, diplomatic posts are considered the territory of the foreign nation. But Mr Hague said: “There is no threat here to storm an embassy. We are talking about an Act of Parliament in this country which stresses that it must be used in full conformity with international law.”

Likewise in Washington the UK permanent observer at OAS, Philip Barton said that “it does not consider (the message) a threat to the Ecuadorean embassy” and underlined that London wants to reach a “mutual and diplomatic solution” to the situation.

Barton said that under UK legislation we have a linking obligation to extradite Assange to Sweden who added that the UK position “does not refer to Wikileaks activities or the US position on the matter”.

From  Mexico City International Law professor Julio Sau anticipated “the conflict will most probably become multilateral and highly politicized too”.

“Politically it is a good opportunity for Unasur. UK already has a major conflict with Argentina over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands, and it will be very interesting to see what happens because Unasur resolutions are by consensus” underlined Professor Sau.

However Sau downplayed the possibility that the UK breaks into the Ecuadorean embassy in London and speculated that UK will delay indefinitely Assange’s safe passage through British territory.

Sau said that under International Law the 1964 Vienna convention means domestic law does not prevail in cases as granting political asylum and “this has been respected even in the worst dictatorial moments of Latinamerica and Africa”.

The Mexican professor recalled that in the dispute over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands the South American block has unanimously supported Argentina, even regarding controversial measures as limiting sea and air connections or interfering with trade links.
 

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1 damian (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:54 am Report abuse
On the face of it William Hague and the FO dropped a bobo when he mentioned the option of entering the embassy. It was obvious that this would be seized upon by Equador and used as political ammo to put pressure on the UK. It's also obvious Argentina will use this to fan the flames of Anti UK rhetoric and turn this into a Falklands dispute. If pressure persists we may see certain South American countries piling pressure on the FI and UK commerce in the form of more sanctions etc.

But on the flip side the USA has, like it or not been dragged into the issue. If pressure is put upon the the FI as a result of this we may see the USA becoming more vocal.

unfortunately, Argentina will soon hit upon economic hard times and no amount of lashing out at it's neighbours will help her
2 The Cestrian (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:09 am Report abuse
Ecuador just looks weak.

Rather than dealing with this situation itself it goes off crying to its South American neighbours and they gleefully jump on board a dispute that has got zilch to do with it.

The Swedes wont be happy either as they are being gleefully pushed aside as well in the SA attempt to have another go at the Gringos in the UK.

The UK wont be bothered. We'll do what we have always done and play the diplomatic game skilfully. Assange will eventually go to Sweden and then on to the US.

It's only a matter of time.
3 Room101 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:47 am Report abuse
What does Equador want from Mr Assange in return.
4 Richfe (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:15 am Report abuse
What...turn it into another issue where the UK is in the right both ethically and legally in the right?

I really do hope the OAS has a look at this...since according to their defintion of diplomatic asylum it is entirely invalid in this case. Section III of the OAS Convention on diplomatic asylum below:

“It is not lawful to grant asylum to persons who, at the time of requesting it, are under Indictment or on trial for common offenses or have been convicted by competent regular courts and have not served the respective sentence, nor to deserters from land, sea, and air forces, save when the acts giving rise to the request for asylum, whatever the case may be, are clearly of a political nature.

Persons included in the foregoing paragraph who de facto enter a place that is suitable as an asylum shall be Invited to leave or, as the case may be, shall be surrendered to the local authorities, who may not try them for political offenses committed prior to the time of the surrender.”

So for the last two months Ecuador has been breaking the treaties it signed with the OAS...
5 Alexei (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:21 am Report abuse
This international fuss does seem hugely disproportionate to the alleged offence.

Why the Ecuadorian embassy? Was Assange preemptively offered asylum by the Ecuadorians? Or did he reckon that a sexual assault charge is no 'biggie' in South America?

Assange is facing criminal charges in Sweden, but has evaded the Swedish judicial process by effectively hiding in Ecuador. Unfortunately we have an extradition treaty with Sweden which means that British authorities are compelled to arrest Assange if and when he leaves the Ecuadorian embassy. Unbelievably (though thinking about it, completely predictably) the malvinistas are jumping on a perceived bandwagon to squeal “Argentina” and “Malvinas”. Britain should let the Ecuadorians take Assange, as diplomatic baggage, back to Ecuador. Then it's Sweden's problem. I suspect if the tables were turned, that's exactly what the Swedes would do to us. At the end of the day this should be an argument between Sweden, Ecuador... and of course the United States, which has expressed an interest. Obviously there's much more to this than the dubious allegations of sexual assault. If Hague is determined to make an arse of Britain, in the eyes of the world, on behalf of Sweden and the US; I hope he has damned good reason other than the flimsy pretext.
6 Englander (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:42 am Report abuse
Its clear that the British Foreign Office usually so reserved and reluctant to take action has committed an enormous blunder. The situation whereby a British Policewoman was murdered by a Lybian diplomat doesn't quite compare with an alleged double rapist seeking to evade justice in Sweden. The UK should accept its lost this round to Ecuador and let the creep go. In addition the UK should now sever diplomatic relations with Ecuador something the vast majority of citizens from both Countries would seem to support.
7 LEPRecon (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:45 am Report abuse
Quite frankly if the Ecuadorians want the odious, pompous barsteward they can have him.

After all, who needs an 'alleged' rapist anyway. Let him go to South America if he wants to. He'll never be able to set foot outside of Ecuador without having Interpol arresting him, and Ecuador will probably find itsel out in the cold, with the exception of their 'good' friend Venezula and Argentina.

I wonder how long it'll be before the Ecuadoran government realise he's just a big pain in the arse, who is sponging off them, and causing them loads of grief.

Unless of course, the Ecuadoran Government is making him 'pay' for his asylum. In that case, I wonder where he is getting his money from?
8 Ken Ridge (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:51 am Report abuse
It's a load of hot air about nothing, laws are laws.
It seems the majority of SA love to blow things out of proportion for the sake of a little publicity or a political dig at the UK.
With the exclusion of one or two counties LA is a continent of delinquant, immature retards, well and truly deserving of their third world status.
9 Idlehands (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:57 am Report abuse
The gaggle of ducks are gathering for a symphony of quacking. It will have the acoustic merit of an orchestra manned by the Bash Street Kids (or a coven of South American despots). Ear plugs at the ready people.
10 ElaineB (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:10 am Report abuse
People are not considering the law of precedent here. Assange went through the law system in the UK and when it didn't go his way he ran off to hide in a foreign embassy. (That must have pissed off all the people who stood bail for him) That cannot be dealt with lightly as it will set a precedent.

Assange is all about Assange and he will be loving the publicity. People want to hold him up as a hero against the establishment because he embarrassed some governments. Big deal. Are the Kirchnerites pleased that he exposed just how mentally ill their President is?

The fact is diplomatic correspondence is private and not for public consumption for very good reasons. What he has done for his moment of fame is damaging to the future of diplomatic relations.

But none of that has anything to do with the fact that he is being investigated about a very serious criminal charge. Why should he be exempt from investigation in the normal fashion just because he is a famewhore?

If anyone is wondering why Ecuador has made a meal of this it is quite simple. Correa has been humping the leg of Chavez and this is his moment for a pat on the back. He has somehow managed to insert the words 'we are not a colony' into statements regarding this issue. Completely unrelated and I am only surprised CFKC didn't get him to mention the Falklands.
11 Frank (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:15 am Report abuse
@5 'Why the Ecuadorian embassy? '

Looking for a country where freedom of speech is sacred maybe???
12 Alexei (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
@11 LOL Yes, of course that must be it :)
13 ElaineB (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:29 am Report abuse
@11 Maybe they were the cheapest.
14 Alexei (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:33 am Report abuse
@11 Just thought I'd check what I suspected. Sure enough:

www.hrw.org/news/2011/07/21/ecuador-blow-free-speech
15 War Monkey (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:34 am Report abuse
Well nobody thought the Equadorian decision was about human rights did they? DID they?
16 vestias (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:45 am
Comment removed by the editor.
17 War Monkey (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:48 am Report abuse
@16 vestias (#)
Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:45 am

Beg pardon?
18 agent999 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:53 am Report abuse
@18
The UK does respect the rights of of citizens!

All the courts in the UK listened to his case and decided that his rights were not being violated!
19 v for victory (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:54 am Report abuse
Like others have said, Assange should go back to Sweden and stand trial like any other person. Rape after all, is a serious offence.

If the US had wanted him so much, the UK would surely have sent him months ago.

The foreign office should have just sat this one out, this is becoming a bit of a sideshow for some parties in SA.
20 malicious bloke (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:57 am Report abuse
@10, “Are the Kirchnerites pleased that he exposed just how mentally ill their President is?”

I must have missed this particular bit of hilarity. Got a link?
21 Frank (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:06 am Report abuse
@ 20 don't have a link but as I recall Hilary Clinton was asking her man in BA what meds KFC was taking for her bi-polar disorder.......
22 Richfe (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:10 am Report abuse
@20 Link here

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/hillary-clinton-cristina-kirchner-stress

I think Hilary was just showing concern.

@16

Julian Assange went through a legal process including 5 hearings:
- Bail Hearing
- Bail Appeal
- Extradition Panel
- High Court Appeal
- Supreme Court Appeal

A second Supreme Court appeal was rejected on the grounds that there was nothing new to offer.

At this stage he did a runner. He could have appealed to the European Court of Human Rights.

And this was just to be extradited to a fellow EU member, Sweden, where the same human rights are guaranteed. And this was before he was even tried in a court of law!

There are absolute prohibitions in EU law (applicable to both UK and Sweden) against extraditing somebody to somewhere they might face torture or the death penalty. Or unfair trials.

Do you really think your rights are as well protected?
23 v for victory (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:17 am Report abuse
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/41f57030-fc9f-11df-bfdd-00144feab49a.html#axzz23njErHD3

does this help
24 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:53 am Report abuse
#19
“If the US had wanted him so much, the UK would surely have sent him months ago.”
I absolutely agree with that statement. Surely if the USA wanted him, would the UK have granted Assange bail? They could have deemed him a flight risk and denied bail, at least in the USA they can do that. And, apparently in the end, he proved he was a flight risk.
25 Musky (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 12:24 pm Report abuse
Once again South America becomes the last refuge of a scoundrel. It is know that when it comes to free speech, Ecuador is close to the bottom of the pile. Ok so they say Assange has revealled his facts in Ecuador yet this is a snipe at the USA and not an attack on the character of ecuador politicians and president who corruptly stifle homegrown political commentators and opposition.
Ecuador is allowing a bail absconder to sit in its embassy and with the guards surrounding it, it seems Assange is in prison already.
26 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 12:30 pm Report abuse
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the world finaly started world war 3, and billions died, very stupid really,

and what of Mr Assange ,
ah yes very interesting,

he got so fed up of waiting, he decided to go back to sweden to face trial,

sweden , sweden , where are you, oh dear all gone , all dead,
and its all my fault,
or was it the british,

chuckle chuckle .

come on , laugh , it may your last laugh,
27 Richfe (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
The sad thing is...in either a UK or Swedish prison he'd have better living conditions than he has at the moment...
28 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
OK well I'm British, and I'm disgusted at how our government has been acting with regards to the Assange case(and many others). This clearly shows that our governments are taking away our freedoms, like freedom of speech, and carrying out acts of repression, for example this one. Mr Assange revealed thousands of military files from many Western countries, that showed just how vile they are. I actually believed that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan were good, even though I knew about the oil, but after thinking about the large number of innocent lives lost because of their actions, I am now ashamed to even regard myself as any nationality as ALL governments are doing this. I think people really should have the balls to get together, unite, and protest in the millions. A new revolution. Sounds good, but has an almost zero chance of actually happening. Shame, because it would've changed our world for the better, if we did it right.
29 Idlehands (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:01 pm Report abuse
28 THEMan - That's the spirit. Ignore the unsavoury fact that this case is about sexual misconduct in Sweden and pretend it is all about Wikileaks revelations about the USA. A winning idea.
30 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:11 pm Report abuse
What do the two issues have to do with each other? Links are being drawn here between two seprate and independent issues in order to allow some people to whip up national sentitement as a ploitical tool.

There is no way the UK will enter the embassy and neither did it threaten to do that. It mearly brought attention that it has the right under domestic and international law to do this.

For those that dont reconise the difference (probably due to a lack of udnerstanding of the English language) the verb could means a posisbility the verb will means we plan on completing an action. A threat is rather lack luster if it only contains the verb could. The US and Candians (English as an offial language) see the difference. it was the UK fulffiling its legal obligation to inform the embassy of its rights and remind the embasy of it obligations under the international law not to interfer with internal affiars of its host nation and to abide by the laws of its host nation.

Because each country has different measures by which it judges the case of politcal asylum there is no prescende or obligation under international law that states that the UK must reconise ecudorian plitcal aslyum status for Mr Assange.

The issue here is the principles of international law and I do not see how in any way this is about collonisation or any sovernity issue. The use of the words by Ecudor were designed to drum up anti british national sentiments. Also note there are members of the Ecudorian governemnt who believe the decision was wrong and this is more about Sweedish-Ecudorian relations than anything else.

Unless the UK was to actualy enter the embassy this issue has absolutly nothing to do with any nations others than Ecudor, Sweeden, UK and Australia.

unless of course Ecudors aims to overturn the most basic legal principles by belieiving that the more support it has from LATAM the more right it has. MIGHT DOES NOT MAKE RIGHT!
31 Eddieposted (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:12 pm Report abuse
It's about time the EU supported the UK on both the Falklands and Assange issues.
32 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
@31

The EU does Support the UK on both issues. The UK supreme court in its ruling confirmed the extradition is in accordance with EU law and Swedden as another EU nation obviosuly supports the UK.

On the FI the EU reconises it as part of the EU treaty as a foreign overseas terriotry of the UK and as such reconises the population as EU citizens who are eligible to recieve EU subsidies. This is similar to the way the EU reconises the French overseas terriotries.
33 Simon68 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
All Assange had to do was appear before the Swedish court and prove his innocence!! Nada más!!!

If he was scared of what the outcome would be, he should not have had “intercourse” with the ladies who denounced him for sexual assault.

It would have been easier for thwe USA to have extradited him from the UK than from Sweden as there is no extradition treaty between USA and Sweden!!!

This whole thing is little Julian looking for more fame now that he has run out of secret cables to publish!!!!!
34 Ken Ridge (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
@28 THEman
“OK well I'm British”

I doubt it, or you wouldn't have felt the need to state it.

A nice speach, however what does it have to do with Assange facing trial for sex crimes?
35 rylang23 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
Almost ALL of the commenters have conveniently forgotten, no even quoted the propaganda from the US, that Assange has been charged with a crime. He hasn't!
[see #4 above] Assange has NOT been charged nor convicted, and anyone with a bit of common sense could see from the beginning that the US was attempting to silence a very strong and highly visible critic.

Please, this case has NOTHING to do with alleged rape. Those allegations were trumped up in an attempt to make this sordid process look legitimate. The US and Great Britain (isn't it time to drop the “Great”) follow NO rule of law when they find it inconvenient.

Remember the famous poem that goes something like... “when they came for the Jews, I wasn't a Jew so I did nothing, but when they came for me.....”.

Regarding South America, it has it's problems and after 500 years of rule by empire and bought off oligarchs, it has finally found some mojo, and is speaking truth to power. Boy, do former colonial powers HATE being told the truth about their distasteful behavior.
36 Richfe (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
28 THEMan

So your logic is that because Mr Assange has done something you like he should have a “get out of jail free” card for any future criminal allegations? Please do explain how that makes the world a better place.

Don't get me wrong: I really like how WikiLeaks shone a torch in the dark. But how can you support the concept of WikiLeaks, exposing the wrongdoings of governments, but then say that the founder of WikiLeaks shouldn't himself be accountable? Doesn't make sense.

Or are you claiming...and let me get this right (its a bit complicated):

“The CIA to bribed some Swedish women to infiltrate WikiLeaks and seduce Julian Assange, and then pressure the Swedish government to try to extradite him from the UK to Sweden so that he could then be extradited by the US from Sweden to face charges of espionage but actually he'll end up being tortured in Guantanamo.”

Because if you believe that I have to tell you its the least convincing conspiracy theory ever. Surely somebody in the CIA would just say “why don't we just bundle him in the back of a car” or maybe “why don't we just extradite him from the UK”.
37 Ken Ridge (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:35 pm Report abuse
35 rylang23
Have insider information do we? Or are you another conspiracy theorist.
38 The Cestrian (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:40 pm Report abuse
@35

“Boy, do former colonial powers HATE being told the truth about their distasteful behavior”.

What a lad of arrogant shit. what you south americans dont seem to comprehend is that you operate in your own little corrupt world where you imagine anyone gives a shit about what you say.

the only country in south america that holds any kind of political influence is Brazil, the rest of you, politically, are pretty much an irrelevance. However you seem keen to shout “look at me, look at me” and attention seek as much as you can nowadays, probably because of your severe inferiority complex about the Western world and the “gringos”.

People lose count of the number of times you shout “colonialists” or “imperialists” or “falklands” as it is cringeworthy and merely shows up the huge chip on your shoulders that you have about countries who actually contribute or achieve something meaningful.

Get over yourselves.
39 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
#28 What Assange did does not cover the concept of “freedom of Speech”. While I admit that my government had a lot of embarrassing and some stupid cables esposed, ALL governments need a certain amount of classified communcation to be left out of the public arena. Freedom of speech allows one to crtiticze government with the fear of repercussions. Freedom of speech does not allow someone to yell “there's a bomb in the building”. The concept of “freedom of Speech” is to allow one to convey their political ideals. To publish classified documents is a crime, not a crime of espionage, but a crime nontheless.
I repeat, every government needs to operation under the safe assumption that there is a certain amount confidentiality where they communicate behind closed doors. To believe overwise is simple unrealistic.
40 The Cestrian (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:47 pm Report abuse
@39

Assange was stupid.

As The Clash once said “i fought the law and the law won”.

there will only ever be one winner in the Assange saga and it wont be Assange.
41 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
@35

Wow di you really just use a poem written about the removal of ethnic minorities by a Nazi government in Germany to argue that Assnage should just be allowed to sue politcal asalym to escape from the due process of law. (Notice I said due process not trial). Thats a little bit of a stretch dont you think? It has been over 2 years since his wikileaks website published the information. Yet the US has not attempted to extridte him in all this time, and especialy not from the UK (which as many have pointed out would be far easier).

Your argument can be summed up as Mr Assnage should be free from any form of prosecution by anyone, because it is mearly the Americans attempting to get revenge. Do you understand just how dangerous this idea is? You bascialy argue that Mr Assnage now has the right to do what ever he wants when ever he wants where ever he wants because to accuse him of a crime is an infirignment of his human rights becuase of some unprovable consipracy theory. Just stop and actualy think of the legal prescendese this sets?
Either than or your argument is that his previous good actions should give him some form of impunity from prosecution for the rest of his life.

I am aware he has not been charged but that is because he is attempting to block due process (the legal right of the police and prosecutor to investigate and build a case).

We are all ruled by the rule of law and your unproved consipracy theories have no basis in the legal system. if you want to abbanodon law and impliment a system where the public should decide legal cases based on conspiracy theory and nationals entiment then pelase do it else where.
42 malicious bloke (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:51 pm Report abuse
@40, that was the crickets...then the bobby fuller 4...then the clash...then greenday.

It's a sort of entropic decay towards being completely and utterly awful :P
43 Lord Ton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 01:58 pm Report abuse
So a bunch of tin-pot dictators and banana Republics are going to mull over the latest storm in a tea cup. Bet no-one thinks about the victims. The British police should kick the doors in and show these sexond rate nations what justice is all about.
44 wangito (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:03 pm Report abuse
#7...
You wrote:“I wonder how long it'll be before the Ecuadoran government realise he's just a big pain in the arse”

#3...
You wrote:“What does Equador want from Mr Assange in return.”
The answer to these questions are simple... Assange entered the Ecuatorian embassy rich and and will leave poor as a church mouse... His surviaval in Ecuador depends on how long he can make them believe he is still rich.
Trivial Mr. Watson, trivial...Be patient.
45 Britninja (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
@43 I'd agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact that you just know that the rabid government-sponsored thugs in basketcase nations like Ecuador and Argentina are just waiting for an excuse for another round of flag-burning, brick-flinging vandalism, which would put our consular staff in danger.
46 numnumnum (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:10 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
47 Ken Ridge (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:12 pm Report abuse
35 rylang23

“ and anyone with a bit of common sense could see from the beginning that the US was attempting to silence a very strong and highly visible critic. ”

Anyone with any common sense would know it is easier for the US to extradite from the UK than from Sweden. The UK has recently extradited two UK citizens to the US, one for suspected exportation of something dodgy to Iraq or Afghaniastan years ago (forgot the reason) and the other for US copyright infringment.

If wikileaks broke US law then they would NOT hesitate to openly make him stand trial, the idea of making up excuses to secretly smuggle him from Sweden is obsurd and typical of conspiricy loonpots.
48 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:12 pm Report abuse
WTF are Ugg Boots and how much are your t-shirts?
49 numnumnum (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:14 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
50 Britninja (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:17 pm Report abuse
lol wow clearly the last spam-free outpost has just fallen
51 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:22 pm Report abuse
It was only a matter of time.
52 sammy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
Haigh has his feckin head up his feckin asse!! There is no need to bother about this extradition,they don't seem to bother to much about foreign criminals and terrorist being sent back,as only stupid zealots take any notice of these ue rules.The best thing would be to leave him to go to ecuador or send the bloke back to australia and let them deal with him.The stupid british attitude of “we must show how we stick to the rules” when every other eu country sticks two fingers up has become out dated,just like the british sense of fair play.Start lying and cheating like the rest of the world,look at cristina....fine example of it.
53 Condorito (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:31 pm Report abuse
38 Cestrian,
Firstly, I doubt rylang23 is South American. If he were he wouldn’t say patronising things like “after 500 years of rule by empire”. We have been independent for 200 years and our problems are of our own making just as much as our future is ours to define.

Secondly, you say “you seem keen to shout “look at me, look at me”, when was the last time Peru, Colombia or Chile did this?
I have no problem distinguishing the UK from Albania or Greece from Germany, so please have the same courtesy with us.
54 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
@47

I believ the case you are talking about was Christopher Tappin who is suspected of having knoewingly exported electronic parts to Iran which could be used to build missiles.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Tappin

@48 Ugg boots are hideous Austrlian made boots which make you look instantly like a posh caveman. You dont want them lol.

@44 I would actualy suggest that the Ecudorian president who has recently be critised by the international community for suprrsing the freedom of speach of the media and citizens in Ecudor is looking to silence his cricitcs and voters (Ecudors elections are next year I believe) by showing how he is supported by a public hero of free speach that many hold Mr Assnage to be. The BBC has a very good article on this here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19289649
55 Richfe (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
@52 sammy
You may have a point with excessive law following...but I really do think you damage your case suggesting we copy Cristina. I mean the UK isn't the most wonderful country in the world...but...Argentina?

@49 numnumnum
Do you sell Guy Fawkes masks? I hear there is a Mr Assange of 3 Hans Crescent London who would like to buy another box...they do wear out quickly. It's best if you just pull up by the kerbside for delivery - if you honk your horn he's sure to pop out to pick them up...
56 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:54 pm Report abuse
Article from the BBC with translated opinions of the Ecudorian Press, Makes intresting reading.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19294428

BTW if we want to talk about freedom of speach maybe we should be concentratin on the fact that Pussy Riot members have juts been jailed for 2 years in Russia for speaking out against Putin. I wonder why they didnt flee to a foreign embassy and claim political aslyum because this is an example of where it would apply, unlike in Assnages case.
57 Pugol-H (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:55 pm Report abuse
Without doubt Ecuador will try and “regionalise” the dispute, no doubt all the usual chavs will jump straight on it.

Cfk is probably writing her speech as we type, equating the colonial attitude of Britain in this to the Malvinas issue.

What will be interesting will be the stance of the other S American countries, beyond the obligatory call for discussions to resolve it.

Also the views of the Ecuadorian people, if they can be heard.
58 ElaineB (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 02:59 pm Report abuse
@39 “I repeat, every government needs to operation under the safe assumption that there is a certain amount confidentiality where they communicate behind closed doors. To believe overwise is simple unrealistic.”

I completely agree. Not everything is for pubic consumption and by the very nature diplomacy is what happens behind closed doors. Sure, we enjoyed the gossip but it does not mean the means justifies the stealing of private information. I am sure everyone appalled at the NOTW hacking scandal would not seek to justify it.

But that has nothing to do with Assange's alleged criminal activity in Sweden. The two should not be confused.

It is interesting how some people seem to think Assange should be above the law.
59 nigelpwsmith (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:03 pm Report abuse
I have to wonder if we are looking at the whole picture.

1. Assange was aware that he stood a high probability of being convicted. His own defence admits that he entered the woman whilst she was asleep. Therefore it was most definitely non-consensual intercourse, rape, or sexual assault at the least. His defence was hopeless.

2. Whilst holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy, Assange is to all intents & purposes, serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. In Sweden, he would probably serve 2 to 5 years & might even be paroled after serving half his sentence.

3. He cannot interfere with any more women, unless he assaults the embassy staff & if he did, they would kick him out the front door.

4. Whilst trapped in the embassy, the Ecuadorians have to feed him (constant takeaways from local restaurants), clothe him, do his washing, pay for his internet connection & entertainment. If he was serving a sentence in Sweden, it would probably cost the Swedes £60,000 a year to lock him up. This way, the Ecuadorians have to pay... indefinitely.

5. As there is no extradition agreement with the Swedes, it is doubtful that they would be able to get hold of Assange, if convicted or otherwise. If Assange was in Ecuador, it would be a great deal easier for the Americans to snatch him off the street without upsetting a European allies.

But think on this…

It is entirely possible that the FCO must have been aware that if they threatened to enter the Ecuadorian embassy, that this would provoke the Ecuadorians to grant him asylum.

The FCO may have been aware that Ecuador was going to deny asylum. By issuing a threat they assured that he was given asylum.

If Ecuador attacked the British & asked for support from other S.American states (especially Argentina & Venezuela), then this would place the US against Ecuador, Argentina & Venezuela and aid Britain with respect to the Falklands sovereignty dispute.

The FCO may very well have played the Ecuadorians for fools.
60 Eddieposted (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
@32 Much more active and vocal EU support needed on both issues.
61 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:11 pm Report abuse
@59 Good analysis. Good to see there are still some rational minds in here rather than just conspiracy theorists. Makes some intresting points. Im not entirely sure how large the Ecudorian embassy is, any one have any ideas?
62 JimHandley (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
Hello everyone,

As usual, much of what has been said so far is simply lot of uniformed flatulence.

As far as I understand this matter, Mr Assange is sought by the Swedes so that they may subject him to a PRELIMINARY INTERROGATION WITH THE OBJECT OF DECIDING WHETHER HE SHOULD BE CHARGED OR NOT!

Assange has already agreed to be so interrogated but IN BRITISH TERRITORY! And there IS legal precedence for such procedure (Lockerbie Trial in The Netherlands and whatnot)

So the fact that the Swedes decline to question Assange ‘in situ’ makes many independent minded observers somewhat uneasy, to say the very least.

Of course, this matter engenders a plethora of moral, political and other questions, NONE OF WHICH HAS ANY BEARING WHATSOEVER ON THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF THE PROTECTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS! After all, a person is innocent until proven guilty and the Swedes resolutely refuse to take the first simple step in trying to establish Assange’s culpability by questioning him in the UK! So if I were he, I too should feel that ALLEGED ‘Sexual Molestation’ is NOT the REAL reason for my extradition. More so, given the past appalling behaviour of many so-called security services (CIA, MI16, MOSAD and lots of others) who’ve already kidnapped far too many people, held them incommunicado and denied their ELEMENTARY RIGHT to HABEAS CORPUS and a FAIR TRIAL!!!

In short, perhaps Assange is simply a ‘drowning man, clutching at the only available straw’.

Jim, in Madrid.
63 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:19 pm Report abuse
@61EA
as I understand it, it is one or two floors of an apartment block, situated close to Harrods, I also believe that access to the Embassy is gained via a communal lobby area.
64 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:34 pm Report abuse
@62 As usual, much of what has been said so far is simply lot of uniformed flatulence.

“ NONE OF WHICH HAS ANY BEARING WHATSOEVER ON THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF THE PROTECTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS”

Please oh wise one, inform me of which of his human rights are at risk?

More so, given the past appalling behaviour of many so-called security services (CIA, MI16, MOSAD and lots of others) who’ve already kidnapped far too many people, held them incommunicado and denied their ELEMENTARY RIGHT to HABEAS CORPUS and a FAIR TRIAL!!!

None of those groups are Sweddish tho are they? And last time I checked he has not been kidnapped nor denied any form of his politcal or human rights whilst in the UK. He has in fact been throught every step of the UK justice system and chosse not to appeal the case to the European court of Human rights. Habeas corpus can only be affeted in the country in which he is accused i.e. Sweeden the only person preventing this is Mr Assnage himself. The UK courts have no right to try the evidence into his guilt or innocence and are acting solely in wether the arrest warrant is valid.

If there is a reason i.e. that the US has its fingers in this, then where is the evidence (not coinsdence). Why in 2 years have the US not attmepted to simply extridte him from the UK? Why did the US not cook up false charges in the UK? You call everyone without your view misinformed (A concept I find deeply insulting) but then fail to meet any burden of proof to substiante your own argument? You can not demonstarte any realy reason what Swedden would be involved in some global conspiracy against him. Your argument is like many in here, built on conspiracy theory, you demonstarte as much when you talk about the CIA etc but do not actualy make any cocnrete or even pluasible link betweent the two issues. Please, if you have evidence to back up your arguments I will condier it and if necessary reform my opion however your what ifs and might bes do not now nor will they ever for
65 JimHandley (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
Hello everyone,

As usual, much of what has been said so far is simply lot of uniformed flatulence.

As far as I understand this matter, Mr Assange is sought by the Swedes so that they may subject him to a PRELIMINARY INTERROGATION WITH THE OBJECT OF DECIDING WHETHER HE SHOULD BE CHARGED OR NOT!

Assange has already agreed to be so interrogated but IN BRITISH TERRITORY! And there IS legal precedence for such procedure (Lockerbie Trial in The Netherlands and whatnot)

So the fact that the Swedes decline to question Assange ‘in situ’ makes many independent minded observers somewhat uneasy, to say the very least.

Of course, this matter engenders a plethora of moral, political and other questions, NONE OF WHICH HAS ANY BEARING WHATSOEVER ON THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF THE PROTECTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS! After all, a person is innocent until proven guilty and the Swedes resolutely refuse to take the first simple step in trying to establish Assange’s culpability by questioning him in the UK! So if I were he, I too should feel that ALLEGED ‘Sexual Molestation’ is NOT the REAL reason for my extradition. More so, given the past appalling behaviour of many so-called security services (CIA, MI16, MOSAD and lots of others) who’ve already kidnapped far too many people, held them incommunicado and denied their ELEMENTARY RIGHT to HABEAS CORPUS and a FAIR TRIAL!!!

In short, perhaps Assange is simply a ‘drowning man, clutching at the only available straw’.

Jim, in Madrid.
66 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:41 pm Report abuse
@65
Jim, Posting your argument twice in an attempt to read the most does not increase the validity of your argument it falls under the appeal to popularity false fallacy.

If you want to have your argument taken seriously then consider responding to my above critique (post 64) above.

If you cant or your true purpose to shout louder than everyone else in an attempt to jsutify your argument or, worse you are an internet troll please leave adult discussions to adults and go find a comments section more in line with your interlectual capacity.
67 Pugol-H (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:42 pm Report abuse
er, you already Trolled this page!
68 Islas Malvinas (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:44 pm Report abuse
tugrace.blogia.com/upload/20120412233152-latinoamerica-j-ballester-330x330.jpg
69 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
@68

Nice picture. I dont see the falkland islands tho. Is this you admitting they dont exisit as part of Latin America. hahahaha
70 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 03:59 pm Report abuse
Thank you Enginner.....I also find that his opening statement of everyone's opinion here is ignorant is filled of hot air except his rather arrogant.
71 Ken Ridge (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 04:01 pm Report abuse
65 JimHandley

That's some stutter you have there Jim lad, what's up, couldn't find anything to back your conspiricy claim?

68 Islas Malvinas

How very childish, how very Argentine!
72 Stendec (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 04:10 pm Report abuse
@65 Jim Handley

The Lockerbie trial is completely different from this issue because no bilateral extradition treaty existed between Libya and the UK / US (they could have been tried in either country) - hence The Hague.

In Assange's case, the alleged crimes happened in Sweden so why on earth should Swedish prosecutors interview him outside of their jurisdiction?

All Assange is demonstating, yet again, is his massive sense of self importance which he seems to think overrides the rule of law.
73 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
When and if the Swedish matters are dealt wtih, Assange will still have to dealt with by our legal system for breaching his bail.
74 Zool (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 04:40 pm Report abuse
According to the statements the two women have given - One says Assarge had tried to have sex with her twice in the previous few hours, and she had insisted that she would not have intercourse with him. Then later that night she woke up to find him having sex with her without a condom & in defiance of her previously expressed wishes.

The second woman claims that he forced himself on her and when she protested he pinned her down & continued, after a while he asked why she was crying & struggling, she told him its because he wasn't using a condom he then put one on & continued to have sex with her. She maintains that it was not consensual.

Interestingly Assarges layer did not dispute their claims but instead insisted that they are politically motivated.
75 Yoda (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
68 Islas Imaginarias
I see, like a good fisting you do.
Malvinistas fisted by Falkland Islanders for 200 years...many more years of fisting to come. Happy Malvinista must be.
76 Brit Bob (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
Apparently Assange leaked a cable from the US that stated that the President of Equador was aware of corruption that was takingh place. As a consequence, the US Ambassador was expelled from Equador and Assange became 'the flavour of the month'.
77 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:14 pm Report abuse
#74 It sounds plausible to be true. When ego's grow, like the super rich, movie stars, super atheletes, they can tend to feel above the law. It's well known just how full of himself Assange became, he lost friends over his ego. People that financially supported him as well. I can see him believing he was a hero of “Freedom of Sppech”, hence a super ego. But all egos become deflated at some point, as was his.
#76 BTW, the Ambassador was also deemed a persona non grata and was required to leave. I still think it's a viable option for a diplomatic resolution to have Assange leave the building. But than again I am not a lawyer....thankfully.
78 Brit Bob (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:21 pm Report abuse
If Assange had any guts he would want to go to Sweden and clear his 'good name' He was exploring the possibility of using Sweden for his Wiki-leaks base before having to leave Sweden in a hurry.

Even if he is given full diplomatic immunity 'would he want to base himself and his organisation permanently in Equador?' Would Equador really want Assange using their country as a base? It would end up being a gigantic own goal for Equador that will bite them on the b*m.
79 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
I do not see how he is ever going to get out of the embassy unless the UK grants him passage.
80 latinsoul (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
The ARROGANCE of barbarian UK's William Hague is misguided, he still believes in his country's RACIAL SUPERIORITY over the countries of Latin America and the rest of the world, including USA, yes USA!

The ONLY honorable action for Ecuador and its President is to convey Ecuadorian CITIZENSHIP to Mr. Assange... since his birthplace, Sweden and USA seek his DEMISE! Let the chips fall where they may!
81 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
@77 Captian Poppy

Assnage can not be claimed persona non grata that applies to diplomatic staff who are excersing a right to diplomatic immunity. To enjoy this status the diplomat must of been accepted by the host nation. Mr Assnage is not a diplomate and therefore does not possess a right to diplomatic immunity. Ecudor have granted him political aslyum which (given he is currently in the UK, and a criminal (breaching bail conditions is a criminal offence) means absoutly nothing. It mearly states that Ecudor has offered him an alternative palce to live, importently, it does not mean he enjoys any diplomatic protection and it does not require the UK to reconise his new politcal aslyum status.

We cant force him to leave the embassy but equally he cant leave the embassy without risking leaving the safety that the embassy gives him (by preventing the UK authortieis from entering) and therefore risking instant arrest. The Ecudorian embassy is based over a number of floors in a London Town House, with a communial lobby, he can not therefore leave the building which has no udnerground car park or helicopter pad so he is basicaly confining himself to indeffinite house arrest.
82 Steve-32-uk (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
I don't understand why the UK is getting criticised in this case, the UK is just a messenger, following international law.
83 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
Facts gentlemen, fact,
Do you know the facts?
Do eye, do we , do they ,

What is the truth,
We all, will never truly know,
That’s why we have opinions, is this not so,

The only real people that know the truth, and what they hope to be, are those who perpetrated this in the first place,
Some interesting note through,,

1, just what could these South American nations at this meeting, [actually do]
2, perhaps , war, trade war, fine the brits , ignore the brits , send in special forces
To rescue this guy at the embassy, [just what could they do]

3, if you believe in spies and Mr Bond, and the power of assumption and intent,
Then may we say, British politics, engineered in Britain, extracted abroad,
Implemented where and when necessary ,
4, sit back, have a cuppa , and wait, the sparks will fly, soon enough lol.

.
84 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
@80

WOW showing your complete and utter ignorance of the subject and therefore showing yourself as someone who just jumps on the anti British bandwagon.

1) William Hague is not misguided or arragnt he is mearly stating the position of the UK and international law and how it sides with the UK and Swedden in this case. He is not stating a thing to do with race that is you making links that do not exisit.

2) Giving Mr Assnage Ecudorian citizenshsip does absoutly nothing or do you believe that foreign citizens abroad have immunity from prosecution whislt in another country? They dont, He could be a citizen of the moon he is still subject to an international arrest warrent isused by interpol and is currently in breach of bail condiitons laid down by the UK courts and is therefore a wnated criminal in the UK.

3) Mr Assnage is not Sweddish, he is Australian. However, he is accused of having commited a crime in Swedden.

4) Do you have any evidence to show that the USA seeks his demsie? Its been 2 years since he published the leaks and the US has not attempted extradition from the UK (a far easier prospect of extradition than from Swedden) . So the conspiracy theory you wish us all to believe does not have any evidence to back it up.

Now go away and do so actual reserch and learn the actual reported facts in this case.
85 Conqueror (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
@1 When is an embassy not an embassy? When its status has been revoked.
@4 What's “diplomatic asylum”? An asylum where all the inmates are diplomats? So South America is a diplomatic asylum?
@28 Never mind. Calm down. You'll have a heart attack. And then you'll never find out the truth. Remember how, in '82, the argie politicos screamed that the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone and steaming for home and it was a “war crime”. Remember how its captain, in his memoirs, said it was perfectly justified? And the argies later generally admitted that it was justified and the exclusion zone wasn't relevant. Remember how there was an expedition to find the wreck, but it couldn't be found? And was it last year or this year that it was finally revealed that it had been INSIDE the exclusion zone, heading for a rendezvous further INSIDE the exclusion zone and closer to the Islands, in order to carry out an attack on the Task Force? But I have to admit that there are a lot of crazies out there who like to scream “conspiracy” and “new world order” at every opportunity. Hope you're not one of those.
@35 @4 doesn't mention “charged” in the U.S. or anywhere else. Assange doesn't have to be “charged” with breaching his bail conditions. The breach is self-evident. He's a common criminal. Israel has proved, more than once, that it is easy to abduct someone and remove them or “eliminate” them on the spot. Don't you think the U.S. could do the same?
@62 The Lockerbie trial was conducted under special circumstances involving a Scottish COURT and Scottish law. Now think about a Swedish interview/investigation. And if he just gets up and walks away? And he still has to be taken to Sweden to be tried.
@80 Poor child. And Ecuadorian citizenship would change things...how?

Just think of Assange as a greedy, grasping, narcissistic, self-indulgent liar. It's the simplest explanation.
86 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:13 pm Report abuse
Article in the BBC. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19298846
It appears as if relations have calmed down a bit and they are now working on a solution. It reads as if Ecudor is ready to hand him over to Swedish due process as long as after it is conculded he will be allowed to fly to Ecudor.

Soemthing scared Ecudor off? Is it that they have finally relaised they you cant play gunbaot politics without any gunboats. maybe everyone is just friends again. We wont know, as the British diplomatic methods are quiet, conducted with the right people in the right forums and not screaming and shouting about unsensical issues like collinisation.
87 JUBA (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:17 pm Report abuse
# 80 Latinsoul wath??? “... racial superiority”?????? american friend, bristish are quarre lsome, trief, drunk and more, my friend.
# 69 ingeniero extrangero, # 70 capitán poppy, #71 ken ridge....hahahaha time, time... british go home!!!! time, time,, America for amerinans...hahahaha
88 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:23 pm Report abuse
silly child,
89 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
@87
We have had this conversation before havnt we and all you ever do is leave troll like comments and suprisingly never respond to questions.

Are you a native American Indian? I would guess from your ignorrance no, If you or anyone in your family emigrated to America from another contient i.e. Europe you are no more entilled to live in America than a Brit. The vast majority of Americans are from a Europeon or African racial group. In South and central America this is mainly Spanish (hence why they speak Spanish), in the carrabian they are majority African and in north America their is a mix of Spanish descdents, Europoean decedents and African decendents.

Argentina for example has had many waves of imigration from Spain, italy, Britian and Eastern Europe. CFK herself is a thrid or fourth (i cant remaber exacly) generation Argentine, her family was from italy.
90 Islas Malvinas (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
UK once again breaking international law to try to get it´s own way.
91 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
I'll add that I think the US are involved with this, as they are probably going to seek his arrest, IF he goes to Sweden. The evidence against him may well be politically motivated, and false but we people will never exactly know the truth behind this.

Also, the government has no right to keep illegal activities private. Let me make this clear. We should be controlling the government, not a bunch of corporate, pompous, manipulating, money controlled pieces of shriveled up shit that you would call MPs. We deserve to hear everything that the government does, and the government has no right to spy on innocent civilians, just because there is a so-called 'high risk of terrorism' in the country, which is probably false. Don't you people agree?
92 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
@90

How is the UK breaking international law?

Opionions are like arseholes, everyone has one. What makes arguments different is they contain evidence.

So what are you and debater or an arsehole?
93 agent999 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
@90
What law has been broken ?

@91
No !
94 malen (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
89 what part is it that you dont understand?? south america is for south americans, the immigration that came to live to Arg, are argentinians, southamericans. And 56% of arg population has some genetic mix with indegenous.
Britian is not entitled to live in SAmerica. As Arg is not entitled to live in Europe. Pirates, our region, our continent, is ours, if for any reason you “believe” that in island of SA(erronealy) you are in Europe, you are peole with a great problem of “desorientation” and of “colonialism”
95 JUBA (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
# 89 ingeniero extrangero
wath said Sioux indian in North America? wath you said? looking glass, hahaha, remember, time, time and british go back !!! idem Rep. India, remember.
96 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
@91 I agree with you that the government has no right to keep ilegal activities secret and that the power is with the people. How ever it is naive to believe that in the world we have today that politicans do not have to make extremily difficult that would leave the majority of the population of a country compeltly impotent to act upon. I.e. if a government knew of a possible major incident that would cause mass panic and therefore the posisbility of injury or death or prejaduce against citizens would you have them tell us even though it may never happen? I pay my politicians to make difficult decisions which I would not myself want to make. If you disagree then I fully respect that decison and if you believe you could make these decisons then please run for political office and see if you could. It is very easy to critise those who make the decisions when the majority of us could make those types of decision. This is the same way we critise the police, army etc etc. I would gues you believe in a communist style state, where everyone is as powerfull as everyone else. the problem with this is that hisotry teaches us that althought communism is a fantastic philosphy it cannot work in practice.

However you are still contuning with a conspiracy which has no evidence to back it up. I will ask you again why does the USA have to extrdite Assnage from Sweden? Why not extridite him from the UK? Why have they waited 2 years? Why do you believe they have a need to have false aligations leveled against him to get him to Sweden? Im sorry but I just can not see how Sweden logicaly fits into your argument.
97 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:50 pm Report abuse
bla bla bla,
98 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
@94 if you love the SA that much, then do yourself a favour and prevent your land, especially the Amazon, where many uncontacted tribes are living in, from being destroyed by the corporate pigs from our countries that even we are disgusted at. As for your comment for colonialism, get over it because it's probably one of the least important matters in today's world that will directly affect all countries and destroy others. Another reason why I hate most large companies now, and hate recent governments.
99 Chatcat (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:54 pm Report abuse
You sound harmless Malen, if a little bewildered ;)
100 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 07:54 pm Report abuse
poor 94, the fly in the soup,
poor 95, the 2nd fly hitching a ride in the soup.
101 EnginnerAbroad (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:03 pm Report abuse
@94 Where do you draw the line? By your argument British Imigrants to South America would be entiled to live in South America. In this case the British imigrants to the Falklands are imigrants to South America and therefore they are south American. Your are confusing the issue of nationality and racial background. the two are not exclusive mutual. i.e. an Argntine citizens can be of European heristage as many are. You are also ingoring the issue of dual nationality as well as diplomatic asylum cases and economic migrants. In these cases people have the right under international law to live and work in a multitude of locations. I know many Argentines who live in Spain, Italy and the UK. Some have dual nationility as result of grandparents rights, some are econmic migrants. I am British and yet I have the permsiion of the Argentina governemnt to live and work in Argentina. Many Argentines have legal status with the USA to live and work. You are oversimplying the arguments out of ignornace, arrogance and I would suggest a zenophobic attitude. The world is not as black and white as your potray and the idea of Argentina for the Argentinas and britian for the British is as arcaic an argument as saving the world is flat.

You then end your argument talking about British colllonisisation but you are either ignroing or unaware of the conquest of the desert inw hich Argentine settlers collinisaed the vast majority of the country you now call Argentina (The pampas, Salta, Missiones and Patagonia). We either apply all rules to all people i.e. if Brish Collinisation is bad in the falklands then it is as equaly bad in Patagonia. therefore, if you believe that implanted collonial population should return home, then this applies equaly to the Falklands as it does to a vast majority of Argentina as well as the whole of South American.
102 JimHandley (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
For: 64 EnginnerAbroad.

Please note that LAW deals exclusively with proven FACT –not with personal emotion, nationalistic predilection nor other unrelated, extraneous bullshit!

If the Swedes don’t wish to try to establish their prosecutorial case by initially interrogating Assange in the UK, presumably they have SOME reason!

Regarding the Swedish Govt’s Human Rights record –wasn’t their late premier, Olof Palme ALLEGEDLY assassinated by LIBYAN TERRORISTS? –a murky matter which hasn’t been satisfactorily explained, to this very day –remember the ongoing controversy over the “dodgy” Lockerbie Bombing Trial verdict, too!

And wasn’t the Israeli dissident, Mordechai Vanunu (he who exposed his country’s secret production of weapons of mass destruction) lured to Italy from where, he was ILLEGALLY abducted by MOSAD?

I won’t bore everyone rigid by harping on about RENDITION et al. But I reckon that only a irremediable cretin would give credence to populist mass media pronouncements on matters such as the Assange affair!

Of course, I do NOT DEFEND Assange’s ALLEGED behaviour. Rather, I simply uphold his right to FAIR TRIAL and that –in the course of which– he should NOT be obliged to run the very real risk of danger to life and limb, which his extradition from the UK would almost certainly entail!

Sorry for having sent my previous message twice –it was a genuine mistake. But no-one is perfect. Perhaps YOU might learn to not only to spell ENGINEER correctly but to reveal your TRUE identity and stop spouting ill-considered crap from your from your daftly named HIDEAWAY!

Fall out Lad and report to the Foreman of Works!

Cheers to All

Jim, in Madrid.
103 malen (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
well, the problem its that you call “british immigrants” to Malvinas, what we consider “british intruders” to Malvinas, they expelled our population.
“briths immigrants” in Arg are arg, so southamericans.
And if you give us the sovereignity of a little island of UK, perhaps we can give you the sovereignity of Malvinas, and make an exchange, that would be reasonalbe. When I talk of live in, not in the way you think it, obviously foreigners can work and live here and viceversa with permission and if you have double nationality you can do it. I am talkilng in “living” as “feeling the owner” of the place you live.
The conquest of the desert was not in Misiones or in Salta. And no, Arg has battled against our spaniards colonizatorsand the people of here became independent. And the people of here where very mixed with indegenous at that time, its criollos, mestizos, etc. So we are not implanted, Like you.
104 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:22 pm Report abuse
@96 Look as I said, people never may know the solid truth from this, but I am just stating that the US has every reason to try and get him extradited to Washington. I just think it would make it look more legal that he first goes to Sweden to get charged. Look I'm not exactly sure. All I would suggest is, don't believe everything that's in the news, or comes from the government's mouths. They don't always tell the truth.
105 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
When did the Swedes decide to charge him, I thought they wanted to interview him in connection with the allegation? If he spent half as much time and other peoples money sorting this out through the Swedish legal system, as he did in the British system, this would have been sorted months ago!
106 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
And if you give us the sovereignity of a little island of UK, perhaps we can give you the sovereignity of Malvinas
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
so now you claim the UK as yours,

your as sad as CFK ,
107 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
43 Lord Ton
“The British police should kick the doors in and show these sexond rate nations what justice is all about”

Mr Lorton
Remember that Britain did exactly that in Iraq based on another big lie(WMD) and you lost.
108 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
An excellent article denouncing the shamelessness of Britain's pathetic threats against Ecuadorian sovereignty.

www.salon.com/2012/08/17/britains_assange_overreach/

I wonder, what is it that the Britards have to gain by assaulting Ecuador and arresting Assange? The only ones with an interest in this, are the US and Sweden.

I thought the 'mad poodle' days were over after Labour left the government. I was mistaken.
109 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
106

Anyone who read the deadbeat's post would think Argentina had the Falklands to give us. Why would the UK give them something in exchange for something the UK already has?

As for this creep Assange. He is trying to make the Swedish charges appear to be some sort of irrelevant side-issue to the main case in hand. By his own admission he raped these girls. It's only a matter of time before Sweden gets their accused.
110 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Anyone else remembers Britain's feigned indignation at last year's attack against its embassy in Iran by a group of students furious at Britain's meddling in their country's internal affairs? Well, how is this any different? How can Britain say that international law protects the sovereignty of its embassies, at the same time that it attacks that of Ecuador? I only know one thing -- if a UK embassy is attacked again, I'll be cheering hard for the assailants and laughing at the helplessness of the horse-faced ones.
111 Unbelievable (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
I'm surprised that Ecuador's treatment of Alexander Barankov hasn't been more widely compared with that of Julian Assange particularly in the British press. Surely it demonstrates above anything else the immense hypocrisy and corruption of the Ecuadorian government.
112 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
I am sure that my country ultimately wants there hands on Assange. And while he may hold the simplistic POV that nothing the government does should be withheld from the public, he is not even an American to demand that of the USA. The fact remains the he violated American law by possessing and exposing classified documents.
He's a self proclaimed hacker, which in itself is a criminal act. Though there are those whom believe he is fighting for freedom of speech, regardless how misguided he is. Ultimately in the end, Assange will pay the USA for his crimes. We can wait.
113 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
Excellent article my arse. Assange, was lawfuly arrested on a European Arrest Warrant to answer the allegation of Sexual Offences in Sweden, the operative word being lawful! He subsequently fought extradition on that warrant through British Courts. Whilst doing that he was allowed bail with conditions, he broke that bail and that is a criminal offence. The article says he has not committed any offence, wrong!!! He is now wanted by the Swedish Legal system and the British, end of!!!!
114 JUBA (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:05 pm Report abuse
# Ingeniero extranjero... and? wath happen my dear? and? JUBA #95? , remember you go back england, remember, time, time...... lol South America for americans !!!!!! REMEMBER, TIME, TIME.-
115 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:08 pm Report abuse
banality check, I think the article has addressed your points sufficiently well. Assange hasn't been charged of anything yet, and he has shown willingness to face interrogation in Sweden if that country's government agrees not to extradite him to the US -- a very sensible demand from Mr. Assange. That the Swedish government won't commit to that, suggests that the sex abuse allegations are but an opening act for something much darker -- something in which the UK government is complicit: the suppression of Assange's free speech! The West will now have political prisoners!
116 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
Don't you people get it!?
The only so-called solid evidence is statements from two witnesses who are falsely claiming rape charges because of their own stupidity. If Assange goes to prison, that's one more step towards the end of our only chance to retain our freedoms. Assange hacks, but for the right purposes, and that is to expose the corrupt governments and show the world their true colours. Unfortunately, around half of the population are brainwashed into thinking that he is a criminal for doing this.FALSE. The governments are the criminals, especially the US and UK Blair era governments. We need this to finally stand up to these oppresionists, and tell them that we will no longer take their crap. But, as per usual, it's effects are limited because of the large number of brainwashed people who think otherwise.
117 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:11 pm Report abuse
107 MB

You cannot compare the WMD issue with the Assange case. Unless of course you are bitter and twisted about how you were treated in the Falklands and are now on an endless campaign of opportunistic Brit bashing.

Found any guns under your bed lately? How's your WMD (worthless masters degree) going?

Chuckle chuckle.
118 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:15 pm Report abuse
@117 Sadly Joe Bloggs he can, in a way if you think about it. In my thinking, it's horrible decisions made by a horrible government, to gain benefits for themselves.
119 JUBA (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:21 pm Report abuse
ingeniero extranjero hahahahah and? #95??? poor man, go home!
120 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:25 pm Report abuse
116

You've been suckered in by Assange's argument. This man has admitted doing what he is accused of doing to those women. His defence is that it does not constitue the crime he is charged with.

The existence of WMD was denied by the Irag government but the UK government accepted the word of the USA gov that the WMD existed. Most likely a terrible mistake at best or at worst, a lame front to attack Iraq. However in the case of Assange, Sweden has called for his extradition (fact) from the UK where he is. The UK has an obligation to assist Sweden with this.
121 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:27 pm Report abuse
115
Assange has breached his bail, that is an offence under British Law !Forget Sweden, he has now committed an offence here!
The offences in Sweden are allegegations, he is a suspect. What kind of legal system do you live under? Does it allow a suspect of alleged sexual offences dictate to those investigating those allegations. Where, when or how he is going to answer questions about those allegation? I do not think so, not in yours or anybody elses Country where the rule of law is valued. As for suppressing is freedom of speech, just what the hell do you think he has been excercising in the British Courts all these months? His right to silence!!!!!!
122 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:28 pm Report abuse
108 Forgetit86
Great article
“If the U.K. does raid the Ecuadorean embassy, legally the territory of that country, it will be breaking the law and exposing the fundamental hypocrisy of its claims about the respect of the rule of law internationally”

117 JD(Joe Dick) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
123 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
122 MB

No raid on the embassy will be necessary. Ecuador will hand Assange over shortly and you can all crawl back under your rocks.
124 Think (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
I’m tempted to say……
Another nail in Britain's diplomatic coffin in Latin-America…
125 CJvR (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
If there was a shadowy worldwide conspiracy after Assange it have to have been planned by the same brain thrust as the 9-11 conspiracy.

Rather than making sure the evidence is ironclad and Assange is caught with his pants down and the legal machine is on standby to grind Assange into dust - days go by while the women tries to get the SOB to take a HIV test, something Assange only agrees to reluctantly and after threats but the conveniently “forgets the time”.
So the women goes to the cops to see if they can force him to take a test and while telling their story the cops realizes that a crime might have been committed here. The on duty prosecutor agrees - and the diabolic trap is sprung!!! - not. The prosecutor put in charge of the case don't think there is enough substance to prosecute, but her boss disagrees and hauls Assange in for questioning... and then lets him go.
The conspiracy is not done with him though. Assange is to be questioned a second time, a fact which Assanges lawyer is informed of by texting and which he “forgets” to tell his client.

So one day the conspiracy wakes up and realizes that Assange have escaped it's iron claws and is in the UK... etc.

Now that is one seriously organized conspiracy!
126 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:38 pm Report abuse
124

Let me guess. You won't though because you're not very confident and you're starting to realise the foolishnes of your fantasy that is the Falklands are falling into Argentine control?

Chuckle chuckle.
127 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
123 JD “No raid on the embassy will be necessary”

An who the f are you lol.
128 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:40 pm Report abuse
@121 My point is that these allegations were made by unreliable witnesses, and should just be scrapped immediately. Allegedly, one of the women keeps changing her story, which would make it unreliable, if it's true of course. As for the other one- she said that he raped her because she also 'allegedly changed her mind' (doubt it), because the condom broke. All I can say is, my view is that they are making false allegations because they got caught in the act of acting like whores. Their own fault. As for breaking bail, who cares??? I think he did the right thing, preventing himself from possibly being extradited to the US.

Read this, see what you think, it's interesting.
blog.sfgate.com/abraham/2010/12/05/wikileaks-julian-assange-rape-charge-for-not-using-condoms/
129 Steve-32-uk (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
US rejects 'diplomatic asylum' for Assange

www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iKYWl4EWbuSdL0fRiztlDzKfBuqg?docId=CNG.aecbd662d77fe1aaff8529efdade4379.511
130 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:44 pm Report abuse
129 That proves my other point. There is increasing evidence to suggest that the US will in due time, extradite him. Thanks for posting it
131 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:51 pm Report abuse
130

Anyone could do what Assange did with Wikileaks. Why do you want a rapist to do it?
132 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
128
How do you know these allegations are false? for a start they have not properly been investigated by those charged with the duty of investigating them. He is alleged to have committed offences in Sweden, just because you happen to disagree with their criminal laws is totally irrelevent, he was in Sweden, he allegedly carried out a course of conduct which was illegal in Sweden. When you live in a Country, any country you are subject to their laws, that's it, that's how it is, if you can not obey them, do not go there. As for Breaching his bail, who cares, the British Judicial system cares, that's who. Irrespective what ever happens to the Swedish allegations, he broke our law, if I did it, I would have to answer for it, so does he!
133 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:01 pm Report abuse
Wow you people believe all of this shit that he's a rapist. Can't argue with any of you since you've made your minds up. And if he was subject to their laws, one of their investigators could easily go to the embassy and speak to him. But nooo, he has to go all the way to Sweden to do so. In history, there has been many times where foreign detectives would travel to other countries to interrogate or speak to alleged criminals, or suspects. So why can't they just do this? Whole thing reeks of governments trying to silence him.
Here's another link, and I'll just point out it's pro-Assange, but still has a valid point- www.democraticunderground.com/10021150222
134 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
133

You should link up with Marcos Alejandro/ Mike Bingham. You share a common belief in government conspiracies.
135 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:08 pm Report abuse
”Sex Without A Condom Is ”Rape“ In Sweden, Says A Swede”

“First it was rape. Then it was molestation. Now, it seems, it's rape again, except that everyone agrees the sex was consensual, which seems to undermine an essential premise of rape.

And then there's this bit about the broken condom and the women who, after the fact, wanted the promiscuous and footloose Assange tested for sexually transmitted diseases.

In any event, we received a note from a Swedish reader this morning. The reader, Johan Lindberg, posits that it WAS rape because one of the women did not agree to have sex without a condom. Which means, we guess, that what happened between Assange and the woman started out as ”sex“ and became ”rape“ when the condom broke”

articles.businessinsider.com/2010-12-08/news/30013405_1_condom-swedish-law-swedish-media#ixzz23fycYHNW
136 reality check (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:18 pm Report abuse
Why would a Swedish cop go to a South American Embassy in London to interview a suspect of an alleged offence that happened in Sweden? yes cops have travelled to foreign countries to interview suspects for alleged crimes committed in their countries. I think you will find that it happens in cases where there is no extradition treaty with that country.
Question, “What was Assange doing in Sweden in the first place?”
It has been suggested he went there to take advantage of their liberal laws regarding whistle blowing. Ideal for his Wikileaks, so why would he be afraid of being extradited from a country that has laws protecting his right to keep on publishing the leaks? Does not make sense to me! Anyone on here know anything about Swedish whistle blowing laws?
Next question, if that was the case, then why did he do a runner from there?
Could it be that there is some substance to these allegations?
Another question. Why come here and not go home to Australia? could it be he wanted to take advantage of our Human Rights Legilation.
137 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:21 pm Report abuse
Does anyone here know what happened in the USA tonight, the south Americans had a emergency meeting about this Ecuador thing,
Does anyone know what happened or the out come .
138 Eddieposted (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
@89
In the 2000 Argentine census, Ethnic groups were :
- white/european 86.4%,
- mestizo 6.5%,
- Amerindian 3.4%,
- Arab 3.3%,
- other 0.4%
The vast majority of argentines are european conloists living on land stolen from the native american indians.
So spare us the rubbish about “south america for south americans”
139 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
#136

What retarded crap.
140 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:37 pm Report abuse
@133 Well I do believe in some conspiracies because they are in fact true. However, I accept the limitations to some conspiracies. On the other hand, you love to criticise people who have logical minds, like myself, when your mind is fed shit from multiple sources and you fail to acknowledge that. Don't criticise other people when you are no better or worse.
141 JimHandley (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:45 pm Report abuse
For: 112 Captain Poppy

What a load of impudent nonsense!

As a native English speaker and one who spent some time in your “SELF-PROCLAIMED HOMELAND”, your atrocious lack of knowledge of Shakespeare’s tongue makes me speculate on your TRUE origin – ‘South of the Border...’, perhaps?. Of course, I may be mistaken. But if so, your abysmal literary ignorance is a damming condemnation of the US’s public educational system!!!

Frankly –for as an inhabitant of a country, which can no longer pay its debts (in common with most other the Western World states)– I must say that your prescriptive confidence simply defies all credibility!

Furthermore, given the US’s long, lamentable record of sponsoring murdering Fascist Regimes in Latin America and so many other parts of the world, culminating in the illegal war on Iraq –which killed at least ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND innocent people and made an already bad situation far worse, just to engorge the multinationals’ profits even more– I must say that your sense of morality is sadly lacking, too.

Most dangerous of all, is your imperious proclamation that US LAW should run throughout the WHOLE WIDE WORLD! If that were true, it would be just as ‘LOGICAL’ for others to claim that Iranian and North Korean law (and that of all dictatorial regimes) must pertain in the US, too!!!

So for Gawd’s sake, come awf it Mate. Your so-called ‘DEMOCATIC’ government won’t even allow its citizens to be tried by the UN’s War Crimes Court in the Hague, Netherlands (if you know WHERE that is and WHAT the Court does) I WONDER WHY THE US IS SO RELUCTANT TO HAVE ITS SECRET, REPRESSIVE MISDEEDS MADE PUBLIC???

What DOES NOT surprise me is the natural fear of malicious, dictatorial chancers and posers such as you, shown by fellows like Assange (however good or bad a person he may be)

Cheers to All

Jim, in Madrid.
142 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:46 pm Report abuse
UK, the unprincipled banana monarchy.

“That the U.K. of all countries should be making such overt threats against the embassy of a sovereign nation is especially hypocritical given that it only very recently voiced its own outrage after student protesters stormed its embassy in Tehran. At the time, the British Foreign Office denounced Iran for failing to uphold its commitments under the Vienna Convention to protect the integrity of foreign embassies on its soil – the very same legal convention that the U.K. is planning to violate in order to remove Assange from Ecuadorean protection.”

www.salon.com/2012/08/17/britains_assange_overreach/
143 Joe Bloggs (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:47 pm Report abuse
140

Whatever. I'm not really all that fussed about Julian Assange. The only reason I come on here to is keep abreast of the latest on the Falklands vs. Malvinas issue and to poke fun at all of the people on the pro-Argentina side. Sometimes I get drawn into irrelevant arguments that I couldn't really give a toss about.

As for you: I don't know what side of the fence you sit on regarding Falklands sovereignty so I don't really care too much. Basically I write these posts mainly for fun while I'm scanning Mercopress for the 1% of relevant, new and factual information about the Falklands vs. Malvinas issue that I can digest and process accordingly.
144 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
Forgetit86 I'm guessing you hate all British people then? Maybe I should point out that there are a lot of people in Britain who hate the monarchy, and the government for what they are doing to the rest of the world, but can't do anything about it because the lot of us can't unite to take a stand against it, and just say no to them. Just shows how democracy, and society's progress in the hands of governments and corporations (meaning greed)has severely damaged our country's relationships, and relationships between our own citizens.
145 malen (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:54 pm Report abuse
138 but in 1800 the mix and criollos were 6.000.000 and the spaniards colonialists with whom we went to war for independence only thousands (8.000).
And the indegenous, the mixed and criollos and mestizos, and mulatos and whatever fought so as to not let spaniards rob anymore our land, to get freedom of them. so yes it was recovered land by its real owners.
146 briton (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 10:54 pm Report abuse
142
it sseems you puppets belive everything you read,

so the ecuadorian goverment plans to send military forces to the UK , to defend the embassy against british agression,

belivable lol.
147 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
“The British government has said that it will not allow Assange safe passage out of the country, while Ecuador has granted him safety from persecution as an asylum seeker in its land. While it is still unclear how everything will play out,

it is abundantly clear which country is upholding the liberal values of the rule of law and freedom of speech and which is trampling them in order to pursue its own narrow interests.

In response to this incident Ecuador’s foreign minister has said in no uncertain terms that “Colonial times are over,”

but through its behavior, the United Kingdom and its allies have shown they retain the same imperial condescension toward the ideals of liberal governance and the rule of law that they have held in the past, applying or discarding them whenever it’s convenient.

This is the attitude of a banana republic not a liberal democracy,

and the fact that such a mentality exists at the highest levels of government shows why people like Julian Assange are necessary to keep official excesses in check – and why people like him are so ruthlessly pursued when they speak out.”

www.salon.com/2012/08/17/britains_assange_overreach/
148 THEMan (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
@147 Forgetit86 At last there's someone who agrees with me. Thank you for being intelligent and having some common sense. However, please say UK government as you are referring the whole country as evil, when most of us aren't. Thanks
149 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 17th, 2012 - 11:30 pm Report abuse
I never implied that I think everyone in Britain is evil. For a people who have as a hobby to ascribe negative stereotypes to foreigners, you are an oversensitive bunch when it comes to yourselves and how you're perceived by others.

But OK, just to make it clear -- I dont think that Britain's pathetic threats to illegally attack Ecuador's sovereignty were agreed upon, and are supported, by all 65 million people in Britain; I know this is was a decision of the UK government alone, and that most likely there are a good many people in Britain who are more nationalistic and have more dignity than their leaders, and wouldn't be happy with their country playing the mad poodle act for the benefit of the US once again.
150 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:44 am Report abuse
@141 You are mistaken, primarily in your self proclaimed superiority. However, THANK YOU.....you really gave me a good laugh reading your posts after a long hard week........thanks again Jamie.

PS really, that is the best you have for insults?
151 Troneas (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 02:19 am Report abuse
@108. this is an excellent article. thank you.
152 BLACK CAT (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:18 am Report abuse
WTF do we even have Diplomatic relations with this South American country? in fact we should cut ties with most of them. Let them moan amongst themselves. World bank loans anyone?
153 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:30 am
Comment removed by the editor.
154 Lord Ton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:45 am Report abuse
107 - Did we lose MoreCrap?

If you do the crime, you must do the time. The fugitive needs to be sent to the country where his crimes are alleged, and have his day in court if that's where the investigation takes it. No, there is no obligation on the Swedish police to conduct any part of their investigation in Britain. Facts it is, and the fact of the matter is that the man lost in the English courts and must now be extradited.

If that means annoying a second rate, tin pot dictatorship from South America, so be it. That coffin may be laden with iron Think, but the reality is - we don't give a toss.

Justice requires that the VICTIMS and the accused be heard. The man should be seized and sent to Sweden - which has an excellent human rights record compared to the countries that most the idiots here belong to !
155 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:57 am Report abuse
154 Lord Ton

Mr Lorton aka rotted.

Yes you did.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316061/Basra-pullout-defeat-Britain-Iraq-say-generals.html
156 Eddieposted (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 06:08 am Report abuse
@154 That was a one battle - not the war.
157 slattzzz (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 06:17 am Report abuse
@155 Marcos what has this got to do with a potential rapist, no one is going to kick in any embassy doors, he will either remain in the embassy for ever or be arrested the minute he steps foot outside........simples
158 Lord Ton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:02 am Report abuse
MoreCrap only speaks crap I'm afraid. Typical Malvinista.
159 Think (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:22 am Report abuse
(154) Lord Ton

You say:
“That coffin may be laden with iron THINK, but the reality is - we don't give a toss.”

I say:
I know, I know......
That's why The United Kingdom of Great Britain has gone from being a First Rate Colonial Empire to being a Second Rate Tin Pot Banana Monarchy in a matter of a few decades.....
160 War Monkey (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:40 am Report abuse
@155 Marcos Alejandro (#)
Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:57 am

WTF has this link got to do with the Julian Assange case? Exactly nothing. Typical response from you though. You really wouldn't do well in a debating society. Whilst bold, the tactic of changing the subject completely if you sense that you might be losing an argument won't win you any points. After all, your modus operandi is indeed the scoring of points.
161 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:54 am Report abuse
Forgetit68
Thats your answer is it, retarded crap, just where did Assange base Wikileaks then? the moon?
162 Lord Ton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:40 am Report abuse
And yet still so far in front of you Think :-)

We never gave a toss Think - not in 1833, not now. But you are right of course - we are reduced to a First Rate Non-Self Governing Territory Empire - but then, what in a name :-))
163 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:00 am Report abuse
20 August 2010
Mr Assange applies for a residence permit to live and work in Sweden. He hopes to create a base for Wikileaks there, because of the country's laws protecting whistle-blowers.
164 HansNiesund (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:13 am Report abuse
@133

> Wow you people believe all of this shit that he's a rapist. Can't argue with any of you since you've made your minds up.

Clearly, it's you who've made your mind up he isn't. Personally, I would prefer to have these things decided by a court. That's what they're for.

> And if he was subject to their laws, one of their investigators could easily go to the embassy and speak to him. But nooo, he has to go all the way to Sweden to do so.

I imagine the Swedes are quite picky about sovereignity and the primacy of their judicial system over alleged crimes committed in their jurisdiction. South American states also tend to make a big song and dance about such things, but Scandinavia doesn't apparently have the same entitlement.

> Whole thing reeks of governments trying to silence him.

How will silencing Assange silence wikileaks? That cat is well and truly out of the bag.
165 Think (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:34 am Report abuse
(162) Mr. Lorton

You say:
”And yet still so far in front of you, Think”

I say:
Correct……………................., but.
That gap is constantly getting smaller.
We, in South-America are closing in to you by moving forwards…
You, in the United Banana Kingdom are closing in to us by backwarding...

I still remember my first exile in a “First World” country…..
It will take us a generation to reach their height....., I used to “Think”.
Now, fifty years later, many of those“First World”countries” are hastily reaching our previous ethical depths.

Wikileaks is clearly showing us that.

Let’s just remember how all this started……….................., shall we?:
www.france24.com/en/20100406-leaked-video-shows-us-military-killing-civilians-reuters-staff
166 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:43 am Report abuse
22 August 2010

A mere two days later, Mr Assange, engages the service of two prostitutes, together, one assumes, hey! what ever turns him on and not illegal in Sweden. The allegations then follow, nice to see he has got his priorities right.
Apply fore a residence and work permit, arrange for a shag!
Should have kept it in his pants and saved himself a world of grief.
167 Lord Ton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 12:40 pm Report abuse
In your dreams old 'un .... I can't see South America catching up anytime in the next century or two. Sad but true.

How's the chess ??
168 Think (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 12:46 pm Report abuse
Checkmate in 10 moves, laddie.....
169 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
Seems I owe Mr Assange an apology, I got the idea that these allegations were made by two prostitutes, probably because I have seen them referred to on here as whores.
Having resesearched it better, it seems that the allegations were brought by two of his supporters, which brings further credence to them in my opinion. Miss A, a staunch supporter who invited him there in the first instance and provided him accomodation and Miss W, a woman he met at a seminar, another supporter I suppose.
Then again it could be argued by conspiracy theorists that this was a honey trap, set up by the US. Some on here will no doubt believe that, showing a total lack of knowledge over Swedens Human Rights Record and the Swedish national character itself.
In any case, my apologies Mr Assange, now stop stirring things up, bugger off back to Sweden and get this all sorted! The alternative is to spend a very, very long time running to nowhere, while all the while being used as a pawn to jingo up Ecuadorian nationalism and get their president reelected.
Mind, if you do make it to Ecuador, you could always take comfort parcels to your fellow whisle blowers, you will need to look up the visiting hours at their prisons. Protecting your human rights, laughable!
170 JUBA (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:24 pm Report abuse
#138 eddieposted lol, rubbish? time, time, remember: South America for southamericans.... british go home!!!!!!
171 Lord Ton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
10 moves ?? Somehow I doubt it, but hey ...... maybe we'll live long enough to see it :-)
172 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
Extract from an article published by Human Right Watch.

On July 20, 2011, a judge in Guayas province sentenced each of the four to three years in prison and ordered a total of US$40 million in fines against the men and the newspaper, El Universo, based in Guayaquil. The men are Emilio Palacio, a journalist, and three members of the newspaper's board of directors, Carlos Eduardo Pérez Barriga, César Enrique Pérez Barriga, and Carlos Nicolás Pérez Barriga.

“The criminal conviction of the president's critics is a major setback for free speech in Ecuador,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “Punishing a journalist and directors of a newspaper for ‘offending' the president is likely to have a very negative impact on the news media and public debate in Ecuador.”
173 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:57 pm Report abuse
Mr Assange , is a very clever and maliputive man,

parhaps he has offered ecuador his hacking skills on America to get asylum.

either way, you people who support him, we hope if some one somewhere commits a crime against a member of your family,
and then runs into a banana republics embassy for protection, then you will have no complaints, will you.

the fact is, un less sweden withdraws its warrent, then this man will be sent to sweden to face trial, and the ecuadoriens can have him afterwards, and all you anti brits can go back to the gutter where you do most of your talking.

brag brag brag , bla bla bla .
174 The Chilean perspective (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 01:59 pm Report abuse
@ 65 JimHandley
I agree with your assessment Jim. It is the only possible reason the Swedes have refused to interview him in the UK and also when asked to publicly deny any possible extradition to the United States they have refused as well. This smells like a carefully crafted plan to permanently give him a holiday in Guantanamo, Cuba. They know that a direct extradition to the U.S. was a non starter so plan B is the way to go. Cheers.
175 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 02:23 pm Report abuse
Ecuador
And its supporters,

We think that if this country wishes to show the free world, how great it is, it must lead by example, Ecuadorians can prove to the rest of us mortals, and set a great example,
We think this great little country, full of honest people, protecting the innocent should offer asylum to all suspected or wrongly convicted criminal all over the world,
[Yes we do], Ecuador can show us, how its done, , how many criminals claim they are innocent, and wont get a fair trial,

We think all criminals should be encouraged to enter Ecuadorian embassies all over the world, and ask for asylum.

This way the Ecuadorian government would win the respect of the free world, and criminals everywhere.

So come on fellers, encourage a potential criminal to enter Ecuadorian embassies all over the world, and demand asylum.

Still.
It was worth a few laughs was it not .lol.
.
176 Think (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 02:49 pm Report abuse
(174) The Chilean perspective

There seems to be a few of us, from both sides of the “Malvinas Issue”, that agree about this topic…………

Briton: (28) THEMan,
English/Castillian: (62) Jim Handley
Yank/Yoruga: (35) rylang23
Argentinean: (107) Marcos Alejandro, (151) Troneas & (176) Think
Brazilian: (108) Forgetit86
Chilean: (174) The Chilean perspective

Nice to find some intelligent life in this Turnip field ;-)
177 row82 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 05:22 pm Report abuse
Please support our page dedicated in honour of all those who helped liberate the Falkland Islands in 1982 and dedicated to keeping the islands free for future generations to grow up in the peace and security -www.facebook.com/HonourRestored
178 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
Correa just been on Sky News, grinning like a Chesshire cat, seems to be enjoying every minute of the limelight, upping the rhetoric, with the statement, “Who do they think we are?” I can not help having the feeling this is exactly what he wanted, few more weeks of this jingoism and he will walk the next election.
179 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
Ecuador and Assange, the art of disguising like victims of obscure and cruel conspiracy theories.
180 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 06:45 pm Report abuse
some say, he has stepped to far forward,
and after offering asylum, should have sat back and waited, rather than, the old anti brit bit.

but hey, who will be the first to back out ,back track .
the british , the swedes , or ecuador,

or will the OAS put a spanner into the works ..lol.
181 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
@JoseAngeldeMonterrey is very liberal in all matters NOT involving US and Western foreign policy. THEN, he does nothing but to spout platitudes and talking points of the media establishments of those countries.
182 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
When are the OAS meeting? am i right in thinking it is today?
183 Steveu (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@176 You can add me to the list.There is a part of me that thinks the extradition to Sweden is a ruse to get him to stand trial in the US.

Having said that, I think he's a pompous prick!
184 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:13 pm Report abuse
ecuador, just wants his secrets on the USA
sweden, wants him,
britain, cant get rid of him qick enough,
USA can wait, just ask osama,
OAS just wants, to get the publicity

the list , well yes, the list, what can we turnips say,

is better to be a british turnpt,
than a slippery banana, just ask CFK .
chuckle chockle chickle chackle ,lol.
185 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:16 pm Report abuse
Apt description, as it was one of those that started all this fuss in the first place!
186 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
Agreed
And mr Assange is no doubt laughing at the rest .

.
187 JPhillips (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:30 pm Report abuse
There seems to be a general misunderstanding that an embassy (or more accurately the “chancery” as the premises themselves are called) are the sovereign territory of the nation occupying them. They are not, they remain throughout the sovereign territory of the host nation. The convention is that, because the diplomatic staff run the place and are therefore legally responsible for it as an institution it is considered that the laws of the embassy's country apply to most situations. For example, as the embassy is the employer and therefore has immunity, employment laws don't apply (has caused issues in the past with local workers being paid below minimum wage). However, if one local employee stabbed another local employee in the chancery then the laws of the host nation would apply.
Sheltering a non-diplomat fugitive from local justice who is being charged with non-political offence is in breach of the Vienna Conventions and the UK has the right to insist on his return
188 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
So if the British government, broke of relations with Ecuador, and withdrew our staff from Ecuador,
And thus gave the Ecuadorian staff 7 days to leave the country,
What then, would they do with mr assange
1, hand him over, full stop,

2, smuggle him in a banana skin, and slip him through customs,

3, leave him crying on the embassy floor.
189 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
If you think about, this actually serves Ecuador well on two fronts. El Presidente is not exactly friendly to the idea of free speech and freedom of the press. If you recall the persecution and prosecution of an editor that sent him fleeing the Panama's embassy seeking political asylum because of criticism of the President. El Universo was fined 42 million US dollars for writing a critical article. This may be some smoke to his media persecution and makes him appear as a savior of free speech.
Secondly, Ecuador is small beans politically, even among her other SA countries. This not only give Ecuador an international platform, but a leadership role in the Anti-America, Latam countries.
Assange just happens to be Correa's flavor this year. When the facade fades and he is once again persecuting the critical media, how will this new love affair plays out, if he gets to Ecuador.
190 Conqueror (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
@87 I remember you now! Big, fat, ugly slug that got throttled with a chain. You don't exist.
@90 What would you know about law, argtard?
@94 You're just slime. Well, 99% slime. There are a couple of intelligent people.
@95 SLUG.
@103 “malen” is short for mongrel, then?
@107, 108, 110, 114, 115, 119, 122, 124, 127, 135, 142, 145, 147, 149, 155, 159, 165, 168, 170, 176 & 181 These matters can only be discussed with the intelligent. Not with pathetic, terminally-ignorant slime. Got anyone like that? But I do notice that you like to repeat yourselves. First you come out with crap. It's refuted. Then you trot it out again. Typical brain-dead morons. “I'll keep repeating this until someone says they believe me.” So many LatAm morons. Obviously need to be culled.
191 Ernie4001 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
Assange right now appears as he wants it, like a victim of the US and it´s allied thanks to the BIG mistake of the FO. when sent a letter threatening storm the embassy. Assange received a lot of free “propaganda” who put him and Ecuador in the international sight. A complex case and any raid at the embassy is not acceptable for the international community since there will be no safe place for the political refugees everywhere else.
192 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
Britain is not going to sever diplomatic relations with Ecuador over the likes of someone of Assange's character. Not because Ecuador has such an important or significant relationship with the UK. But because of the fallout in the diplomatic areas it will send a significant backlash throughout the world for Britain.
While it is true that is appears Ecuador pushed the limits of the intent of asylum, as I reread it, they did not offer political political asylum but Diplomatic asylum. This is big in LATAM countires, but the UK is not a signatory and thus does not recogonize diplomatic asylum. The UK only recognizes political asylum. The difference? Diplomatic is “who” gives asylum not why and political is “why” someone gets it. it still remains Ecuador's prerogitive to do so, it is more interesting to see this play out as the UK does not recognize diplomatic asylum.
Either way the UK will not sever relations because of the repercussions with most everyone they have relations with. The diplomatic community would view the UK the way the business community views investing in Argentina. Won't happen. Besides severing relations is usually the last act before war and this is not a war event. Time is on everyone's side but Assange.
193 Guzz (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 09:58 pm Report abuse
Tell you what will happen, Unasur will score some cheap points on your behalf and then you are going to exercise some good old “democracy” on Assange, giving us the jackpot ;)
194 reality check (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 10:05 pm Report abuse
I read the letter. no where did I read anything hinting at “storming!” the Embassy. Where did this word, “Storming!” come from? Ecuador,” that's where. Jesus christ, it was a diplomatic letter, full of diplomatic speak. Ill conceived and ill advised, what next, Ecuador claiming the SAS have been put on standby!!!!!! A task force being assembled in Pompey!!!!!!Marines being brought back from Afghan!!!!!!
They are interfering in UK domestic issues for their own reasons, I know it, they know and anyone with the slighest intelligence knows it. They are bang out of order.
195 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 10:36 pm Report abuse
Yawn! More Orwellianism on the part of the British apologists.

This is the moment for Argentina to launch an offensive against the FI. I wanna see if Britain will have the chutzpah to complain about sovereign rights then.
196 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 10:48 pm Report abuse
seems like someone want war,

very interesting, if one happens to be in argentina, when retaliation happens,

but on the other hand, if you do not live in argentina, then asking for a strike, seems pretty couwardly,
just a match .
197 Britninja (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
Forgetit is apparently tucked up safe in Brazil, hence his twisted wank fantasies about bloodshed and violence in other countries. On one thread he was gloating about deaths in Ireland from the IRA violence, in other he's gleefully looking forward to us having embassies invaded and staff assaulted. Generally, he's a bit of a sick puppy.
198 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:04 pm Report abuse
JUST heard on the news,
ecuador has stated, if the british police enter the embassy, ecuador will destroy diplomatic relations with the UK .
199 HansNiesund (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:06 pm Report abuse
@197

Rotten sense of timing he has too.

en.mercopress.com/2012/08/17/falklands-residents-share-hms-dauntless-secrets-during-a-reception-on-board
200 Britninja (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:15 pm Report abuse
@198 It wouldn't be much of a loss, but although we won't do it, they'll still milk it for all they can. Such is the way of a whinging LatAm banana republic., as we all know.
201 briton (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
agreed,
just heard them saying things like, it is not a crime in latin america, to what he is accused of,

so with the meeting of the OAS perhaps he wishes to get enough support to challenge the UK openly,

rather silly and childish,
but the responce of the goverment after the OAS has met, will be interesting to say the least,..
202 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:23 pm Report abuse
I don't get your point, briton and Britninja (pff!). I don't think a war against the FI would have any effect on mainland Argentina. And I know a good many Argentinians who, contrary to your assumptions, wouldn't be trembling over the prospect of a war against Britain. Who would, now that everyone's seen the weakness of Britain's occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan? I also think that Britain wouldn't be counting with Chilean or American help, as it did the last time. And please, Britninja, I never called for British embassy staff to be physically assaulted. I just think it would be wonderful for the likes of you to be reminded again of the value of respecting a nation's sovereignty over its embassies. That Britain decides to selectively apply this principle, shows really who is the banana republic -- or shall I say, banana monarchy -- in here.
203 Britninja (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:35 pm Report abuse
Like I said, you're quite the little warmonger aren't you. I'm sure the average Argentine citizen will appreciate your Armchair General assurances that their mainland wouldn't be affected, based on your extensive Call of Duty military knowledge I'm sure... Will you be travelling down from Brazil to join them?
204 HansNiesund (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:35 pm Report abuse
@202

Try reading post #187 regarding a nation's sovereignity over its embassies.
205 Condorito (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
Think,
I must be in the other turnip field.

Chilean Perspective,
If the US wanted him by underhand ways they could have abducted him and had him on a rendition flight. The UK secret service was complicit with the US in the rendition of “high value targets” over the last decade.

If they had wanted him the formal way, they would have requested extradition. They have an established extradition procedure with the UK which is heavily weighted in the favour of the US.

Sweden's political independence is renowned and it is not a pro-US country like the UK. Why on earth would they hatch a scheme to get him to Sweden, thus reducing their chances of ever getting him (if they even want him!).

Besides his own defence team didn’t even refute his interaction with the Swedish ladies, so we are looking at a very elaborate honey trap. The classic honey trap: use woman to entice subject. Once in hotel room apprehend, put in suitcase and bye bye, like Mossad did with the nuclear scientist. But we are to believe this honey-trap was designed to let him leave the country, then fight a lengthy extradition battle, allowing the subject to take refuge in a foreign embassy – it is just absurd.

You say the Swedes refused to go to the Ecuadorian embassy to interview him. Of course they did. I would expect any self-respecting judiciary to do the same.

I am glad that Chile has already said that it will not support Ecuador. By giving him refuge Ecuador has essentially said that it does not respect the judicial independence of either the UK or Sweden. Rich from a country that is in the pocket of Chavez. This will end badly for Correa.
206 Britninja (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:43 pm Report abuse
@204 I doubt he cares Hans - its exactly the same as the dreary Malvinista mindset. Facts and truths don't matter, they're just desperate to achieve any sort of triumph over the UK/First World, no matter how small and pitiful. It's clearly some weird LatAm ego thing, a pitiful craving to prove they can get one over on us...
207 aussie sunshine (#) Aug 18th, 2012 - 11:44 pm Report abuse
I would like to know why in 1999 Britain did not extradite General Pinochet to Spain when he was arrested in London. A dictator who had murdered hundreds of his countrymen and women and yet Britain let him off the hook and let him go free to Chile.But in Assang´s case they want to send him off in a hurry so that he can be sent to The USA and imprisoned for life.
Laws what laws!! it all depends who you are!! if you are a ¨friend¨ you are released if you are not you are sent to prison.
I would also like to express my anger towards the Australian government whose gutless attitude has again expressed that it cares nothing for its citizens. Shame on you!! At least protect your own you gutless Australian politicians.
208 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:10 am Report abuse
@204

Yeah, I don't care for the British government's spin doctors, you got that one right. And the post is a bit too long; I can't stand several paragraphs of rhetorical prestidigitation.

I read in the news that Britain planned to take away Ecuador's sovereign rights over its embassy before stepping in to arrest Assange. If invading the embassy is legal anyway, why does Britain need to resort to these cheap tricks? Would it also be OK for you if Iranian students had invaded and vandalized the UK embassy after the removal, by the the Iranian government, of Britain's sovereign rights over the structure?
209 Lord Ton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:11 am Report abuse
#205 - I agree. Think is just an old conspiracy theorist. The USA would have found it easier to extradite Assange from the UK than Sweden. He is accused of serious crimes, and I doubt that rape is not also an offence in Ecuador. That the Swedish police will not give any assurances is not suspicious, it's normal. No police force would tie their hands about the future and, in any case, extradition would not be a police matter, but a judicial one.

There are still turnips here, ...... even Think on this issue.
210 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:38 am Report abuse
202 Forgetit86
You say
now that everyone's seen the weakness of Britain's occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

we say,
you would not be the first to make this mistake, and certainly wont be the last
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
You say
I read in the news that Britain planned to take away Ecuador's sovereign rights over its embassy before stepping in to arrest Assange,

We say,
once again just like the Ecuadorian leader, you want what is not there,
Britain has no intention of entering the embassy illegally,
It has nothing to do with power, or threats,

It’s the fact, if we did it, how long before they would all be doing it,
That is a definite no no .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And what can the OAS do,
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm
No idea, but they do carry a spanner,
Lol.

.im going to sleep on it lol.
211 Frank (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:42 am Report abuse
@207 Aussie Ostrich.... sorry to break the news but I don't think Oz politicians read mercopress.... why don't you go and make a fuss on an oz forum.....?
212 aussie sunshine (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:52 am Report abuse
211 you´d be surprise what oz politicians read!! more than your small brain can comprehend!!
213 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:00 am Report abuse
Digest that cracker Frank the Yank :-)))))))))))
214 Troy Tempest (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:42 am Report abuse
@212 “aussie sunshine”

could this be Assange??
Does he get Free WiFi in that hotel??
LOL LOL
215 row82 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:06 am Report abuse
Please support this page aimed at promoting the unique culture and history of Britain's overseas Territories and fostering stronger ties....

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216 Frank (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:19 am Report abuse
Marcos.... you really are easily amused..... 'awk...marcos wants a cracker...awk....'
217 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:19 am Report abuse
@202
No effect on mainland rgenweener, tell that to the parents of the brave boys who will lose thier lives, when A, they get thier ships blown out from under them, B, the pilots who will never see it coming, and C, the poor souls who happen to be in the vicinity when the tomahawks are delivered on your Naval bases and airfields. We won't need the US or Chile this time it will all be over before they can mobilize. Your pretty brave for a man sitting on a couch in Brazil watching it unfold on CNN or whatever channel you watch. Prick!
218 latinsoul (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:46 am Report abuse
Clearly most of the comments here are not worth the ink the printed with..
It shows the low degree of “education” that these sapiens posses...zero!

But lots of HATE & racial prejudice...get a grip ignoramus..you have become your own worst enemy! Ecuador's President Correa is right & you are dead Wrong!
219 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:13 am Report abuse
@218 Well just watched President Correa on BBC saying that attempted Rape (and I'm not saying Assange is guilty of it) is not a crime in Ecuador, can this be true, I hope not as this would DEAD WRONG
220 Lord Ton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:14 am Report abuse
Nah - Correa is a tin-pot dictator and most certainly wrong. We should kick the embassy doors in and show these second rate nations what justice is all about!
221 latinsoul (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:35 am Report abuse
“If the measures announced in the British official communication materialize they will be interpreted by Ecuador as a hostile and intolerable act and also as an attack on our sovereignty, which would require us to respond with greater diplomatic force.”

“Such actions would be a blatant disregard of the Vienna convention on diplomatic relations and of the rules of international law of the past four centuries.”

“It would be a dangerous precedent because it would open the door to the violation of embassies as a declared sovereign space.”

UK officials softened their position. They said they're “committed to reaching a mutually acceptable decision.”

Britain knows but didn't say that embassies are sovereign territory. Forced entry violates international law. Under Article 22(1) of the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations :

“The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.”

Article 22(3) states:

“The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.”

Article 29 adds:

“The person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving State shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity.”

Article 30 grants the same inviolability and protection to a diplomatic agent's private residence, his or her papers, correspondence, and property.

At the same time, inviolability isn't extra-territoriality. In other words, embassy (diplomatic mission) grounds remain the territory of host nations. However, inviolability protects missions from forced entry. Doing so constitutes a serious breach of international law.
222 Lord Ton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:44 am Report abuse
British law permits entry and domestic law over-rules international law. The ground is NOT sovereign Ecuadorian territor contrary to your interpretation.

More importantly - “ Meanwhile, the lawyer for the two forgotten people of the case, the Swedish women, said his clients deserved justice. ”It's an abuse of the asylum instrument, the purpose of which is to protect people from persecution and torture if sent back to one's country of origin,“ said Claes Borgstrom. ”It's not about that here. He doesn't risk being handed over to the United States for torture or the death penalty. He should be brought to justice in Sweden.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hague-ignored-lawyers-to-send-assange-threat-note-8060061.html

The allegations stand. The rest of you conspiracy theorist idiots need to think about the rights that the victims have to justice!

Send the police in now!! Might as well, he has no chance of ever getting out of there.
223 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:07 am Report abuse
I say again Latinsoul President Correa has just stated on national TV that the charges he faces in Sweden are not a crime in Ecuador, please tell me this is not true, as this would be dead wrong and a crime against Women world wide. There is no way that we would storm the embassy to arrest him contrary to belief we are not that daft. A simple letter stating political mumbo jumbo, just to let Ecuador know all the rules and regulations surrouding a case like this, including that we could remove Ecuadors diplomatic status, (if we chose to, which we don't and won't), has been blown out of all proportion and been turned into a media circus and a chance for some to include other issues (I'll let you guess), including threats of GRAVE reprecussions if we storm the embassy. I will note that the big players (Argentina not included) in SA are keeping quiet on the matter and not making threats that they cannot and will not back up.
224 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:36 am Report abuse
223
There was also a mismatch between what a sex crime is in Sweden and UK respectively.
A woman that agrees to sex and disagrees under the act, looses credibility unfortunately. Especially when it comes to sex with rich and/or famous people.
Furthermore, the Swedes have time and again dropped and reopened the case, all on line with a nation not knowing what to do but taking instructions from somewhere else...
This case stinks and SA is scoring political points on it :)
225 Steve-32-uk (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:44 am Report abuse
interesting...

rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/latin-america-sees-hand-of-colonialism-in-assange-standoff/
226 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:48 am Report abuse
Scoring points where my little ships cat oh yes in SA :) whoopeee. If he's nothing to worry about because he's innocent go and face his day in court, this is not Britains problem EXCEPT, he has chosen Ecuadors embassy in London AND he has broken British law by breaking his BAIL CONDITIONS, for which he will be arrested for when he steps outside, not attempted rape. The Sweden thing is Swedens problem! By the way I've said before you should change your name an rg sympathiser using Britains primary Naval Base's international calls sign doesn't look good
227 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:29 am Report abuse
@208

If the Iranians were to violate British diplomatic premises, I think my attitude might depend upon the number of alleged rapists holed up inside, having already enjoyed 18 months of due legal process.
228 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:45 am Report abuse
slatzzz
You may have tons of excuses, SA will still score cheap points on you lot. And yes, in SA, where it matters for us :)
229 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:11 am Report abuse
They are not excuses but FACT. I'll bet you ten English pounds he will be arrested for breaking his bail conditions nothing more or nothing less. Cheap being the word mate
230 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:22 am Report abuse
I bet you he will indeed, a scenario that gives us even more cheap points, cheap being the word :)
231 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:30 am Report abuse
@228

Indeed. It was seriously dumb of Hague to give Correa such a golden opportunity to play the gringo card, when there are so many in Latam ready to fall for it.
232 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:40 am Report abuse
The UK didn't threaten to storm the Ecuadorian embassy (some hysterionics from Ecuador here), what they did is offer the Ecuadorians a way out that let them keep 'face' only they were too stupid to realise what it was.

Now the Ecuadorians are stuck with the odious toad.

As for the context of the story. No it won't turn into an issue in the rest of the world, only in Latin America, which will do a lot of shouting pretending that they are important, whilst at the same time being ignored by the rest of the world.

If LATAM had any common sense they would just state that this has nothing to do with them and leave it at that. Ecuador has opened the floodgates for every criminal in the world to rock up at their embassies claiming political asylum.

In the meantime, Ecuador have to feed and look after Mr Assange out of their own tax payers pockets, and he'll either spend the rest of his life in the Ecuador embassy or they'll just get fed up of him and kick him out, where he will be arrested for breaching his bail conditions, probably fined a great deal of money, then extradited to Sweden so they can investigate the allegations made against him.

He won't end up in the USA because I doubt they'd want to touch the odious berk with a 10 foot barge pole, and he has done such a good job of destroying wikileaks credibility all by himself by 'allegedly' raping two wikileaks employees, and by not attempting to protect his main source of information, Bradley Manning, who could face the death penalty if found guilty.

Oh yes, Mr Assange has taken all the credit for wikileaks, and tossed the people who helped him aside. I doubt there's anyone in the world stupid enough now to give wikileaks any information as they know they'll be dropped like a bad habit once the smelly stuff hits the fan. And while they're sat in their dank cell waiting for justice, Mr Assange soaks up the glory, credit and fame.

Yup, I wouldn't want Mr Assange as a business associate let alone as a friend.
233 reality check (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:46 am Report abuse
Correa been on sky again, his latest gem, the crimes that Assange stands accused of in Sweden are not, and I quote, “Crimes in latin America” unquote. So what is his point? Latin America only recognises laws of other nations? if they are the same laws as those in Latin America. This guy is priceless, seems to think there is nothing wrong with interferring with the domestic laws of two nations now. Sweden and UK. “Not against the law in Latin America” The mans priceless, a politician of pure genius. Where they get him from, some defunct comic opera!
234 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:01 am Report abuse
@223 I said that earlier couldn't believe it either, so sexual assault is not a crime in latin America WTF you could call that an own goal I think, womens libbers will go beserk when they hear that little gem.
235 reality check (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:14 am Report abuse
@234 slatzzz
I had had to pinch myself when I saw it on TV, who would believe that the leader of a country, any country, would say such a stupid thing on the world media. He basicaly said, they are helping him because what he is alleged to have done is not a crime a crime anywhere in Latin America. In essence, Latin America has the right to interfer in the domestic laws of any country outside Latin America and some on here accuse us off arrogance!!!!. Stunned and shocked, need to pinch myself again, what a prat!
236 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
Sexual assault is indeed a crime in SA, what isn't a crime is to be falsely accused in order to be extradicted to USA ;)
237 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:31 am Report abuse
@236 - Guzz

By that statement, I assume that you have seen all the evidence against him?

No you haven't, so how can you know it is false, or are you MAKING assumptions against the alleged victims in this case? In other words, you are trying to prejudice this case in favour of Mr Assange without seeing any evidence that the Swedish have against him. They only want to question him, they may even let him go without charge, but how can they know if they have all the facts if he won't face them. The coward that he is.

Show me evidence that the USA has requested Mr Assanges extradition. You can't because it hasn't happened.

You are spreading misinformation, just like Assasnge wants you to, without any PROOF that your statements are true.

This is very dangerous for democracy, Guzz, and for the rule of law.

If any of these Latin American countries have any sense they'll distance themselves from Ecuador.
238 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:35 am Report abuse
A man is innocent until prooven guilty, bloody everywhere in the world. You are the ones with the burden of proof :)
If you have no proof, I will not agree in sending the man into the mouth og the lion. USA has Guantanamo, and they admittedly torture people.
239 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:47 am Report abuse
@238
I entirely agree, the burden of the proof is on the prosecution.

It might be a good idea in this respect if Ecuador were to recognise Swedish sovereignity in the matter of crimes alleged to have place on Swedish territory, instead of whipping up outrage over a violation of its own sovereignity which has not happened.

Imagine the heat there'd be if an alleged Ecuadorean rapist was being offered asylum in the British embassy in Buenos Aires.
240 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:52 am Report abuse
@238 - Guzz

The mouth of the lion? Sweden? One of the most liberal countries on the face of the earth with one of the best human rights records?

As I said, I don't know the evidence against Assange, and neither do you. It is customary, when investigating a crime for the alleged criminal to be questioned. By hiding and refusing to being questioned seems stupid and suspicious to me.

Yes he is innocent until proven guilty, but that is up to the Swedish courts to decide.

As for the USA, you haven't shown me any proof that they want Assange.

But let's assume for a minute that they do. Surely it is far easier to extradite him from the UK than Sweden. But let's say they do extradite him, they couldn't send him to Guantanamo because the world press would be all over them like a rash.

Or they could've just kidnapped him off the streets, and sent him directly to Guantanamo, so why didn't they do that?

You see the thing that makes this whole conspiracy theory of Assanges ridiculous is the fact that it is Sweden. If it was the UK you could say, yeah maybe, but Sweden?

The whole thing is so ridiculous as to be laughable. Even more laughable are the people who believe in it despite the fact that there is NO evidence to support anything Assange has said.

You say that they haven't produced evidence against Assange. I say that in a criminal case you don't release evidence to the general public as it may prejudice the case. I also add that none of you have produced one shread of evidence to support your conspiracy theory.
241 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:00 pm Report abuse
As I said, proof is something you need to judge him, not me. As far as I'm concerned, the man is innocent. What will your excuse be when Sweden sends him to USA for political persecution. That's against Swedish laws. I'm a Swede according to one of my passports, so don't tell me about Swedish justice, the same justice that allowed US airplanes to land and transport political prisoners within its territory...
242 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:17 pm Report abuse
@241 - Guzz

Where is your proof that Sweden will do that? You have none, do you?

How about this. What will your excuse be when he isn't sent to the USA? That everything has been a load of bogus lies?

You're Swedish now are you Guzz. Well then Guzz you should have more faith in the laws of Sweden.

Where is your proof that Sweden allowed US airplanes to land and transport political prisoners within its territory?

Some proof please, (Wikipaedia is not proof) not more baseless accusations.

I also don't judge him, that's up to a jury in Sweden, assuming he is even charged.

The thing is, Guzz, you keep demanding proof of his guilt, yet when I ask for proof or your accusations about this so called plot to send him to the USA, you can't produce any.

So surely, the USA is innocent of this alleged plot until you can prove their guilt? Just like Assange is innocent of his alleged crimes until Sweden can prove them.

You have many double standards, Guzz, as many as so called nationalities that you profess. In fact, I don't think I've met anyone with as many nationalities as you have.
243 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 12:41 pm Report abuse
m.sverigesradio.se/artikel/4222109?programId=83

That's Sveriges Radio, news channel owned by the Swedish state. According to them, wikileaks leaked info on US using Sweden to transport political prisons, all against Swedish laws...
244 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm Report abuse
Well as I don't speak Swedish, I'll have to take your word for it, but since I don't know the actual text of the article, it is difficult to agree with or counter it.

However, you still haven't produced any evidence that Sweden plans to hand over Mr Assange to the USA beyond your own opinion, which isn't proof.

In fact, you have yet to produce any evidence that these allegations are politcally motivated.

Until you do, then amr Assange is wanted for questioning in regards to an alleged sexual assault in Sweden, which he is still required, by international law to answer. Hiding out in the Ecuador embassy isn't helping his case.
245 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:34 pm Report abuse
He isn't charged for anything in Sweden as far as I know, but Sweden is one of the few places that can extradite persons without them being charged for a crime. Seems UK is the same. How convenient...
Sweden has overlooked civil rights before in order to run US business, and they wouldn't hesitate to do it again...
246 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:39 pm Report abuse
Not a mention of the rape allegations in his speech, you'd think it was wikileaks Sweden was trying to extradite.
247 Conqueror (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:41 pm Report abuse
@195 Go for it. The seabed needs more argies!
@202 Just a small point. There are 9,500 British troops in Afghanistan. The total strength of the British Armed Services is 227,160 plus 174,800 regular reserves. The UK hasn't put forward its full strength since WW2. In the Korean War we only sent 14,200. In the Gulf War we sent 53,462. In the Iraq War we sent 45,000. Never even as much as 25% of our forces.
@207 Why don't you look it up? It's not hard to find.
@208 You're getting carried away. Time-honoured British methods. Tell the other party what options are available. Slight differences re Iran. I'll leave you to figure them out. But I'll give you a clue. No criminal fugitives in the British Embassy.
@212 Don't assume that others are like yourself!
@217 RAF Typhoons arrive one squadron at a time, using air-refuelling. Capability - 10 squadrons (120 aircraft) per day. Royal Navy submarines pre-positioned. A conservative 200 land-attack cruise missiles before re-arming. Also 40 80mph torpedos for surface targets. Lands 1st (UK) Armoured Division. 400 Challenger 2 main battle tanks. HMS Albion, Bulwark, Illustrious and Ocean supply Apache, Chinook, Lynx and Merlin helicopters. Together with helicopters from other RN units. Mechanised infantry. Special forces. Then we can start to put together the second wave.
@218 See how much more intelligent than you a pretzel is!
@221 You must try to learn about these things instead of making it up as you go along.
@224 SA wouldn't know how to “score” a political point if we gave them the score sheet and showed them how to mark a cross.
@228 Nowhere important then!
@236 Hah! Next you'll be telling us that stealing someone else's property isn't a crime in LatAm.
@238 You start by having the matter adjuducated in a court with jurisdiction. Sweden has the only jurisdiction.
@241 “One” of your passports? In how many different names? Who has identified this troll's IP address? Where is he? Time to contact SIS!
248 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
conqueror
I'm in Denmark, holding a Uruguayan and a Swedish passport.
Is that too much info to process for you? :)
249 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:49 pm Report abuse
@245 - Guzz

He is wanted for questioning regarding allegations made against him of sexual assault. The Swedish police have a duty to investigate these allegations. Sometimes that will lead to charges being brought, and sometimes it won't.

By refusing to cooperate Mr Assange is only making things worse for himself and delaying the inevitable.

Regarding his speech. It just confirms what I thought about him after Bradley Manning's arrest. What finally made me realise that Assange doesn't give a damn about anyone other than himself and wikileaks is just his platform for promoting himself.

As far as Assange is concerned, it's all about him. HIM. He considers himself far more important than anyone else, and all the attention must be on him, and because it's HIM, HE must be above the laws of mere mortals.

The guy is in need of being brought back to reality, and quickly. I wonder how long he'd survive in Ecuador if the British allowed him to go there? Not long, I suspect before he pisses off his hosts and ends up in prison without trial or just being kicked out of the country to face his accusers in Sweden.
250 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
Well, check out your own laws for extradition, I seem to recall that there must be a crime involved to be extradited to another country than your own. And Assange is not charged for anything in Sweden. A hearing can be legally made in the UK by the Swedes, but this they refuse. Why?
251 Englander (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
This is great - Marcos Alejandro. Forgetit86, Guzz, Think, Aussie Sunshine and Islas Malvinas.

If only BK and Duffer would put in appearance we could stage a full show of the Muppets.
252 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:11 pm Report abuse
@239 it wouldn't matter mate apparently it's not a crime in Latam, and before you start GUZZ it's what he said, quote“ the charges he faces in Sweden are not a crime in latin america” ie sexual assault, as I said before I don't know if he is guilty or not but watching his “speech” he never even mentioned it instead rattled on about his fear of the US and how great the whole of LATAM is. I personally think a lot of LATAM countrys will distance themselves from this sharpish, except CFK and Chavez obviously, who will stir up the usual rhetoric and powder puff threats. Just been on SKY news the Yanks are not happy with MR Assange AGAIN. Could be a long lonely stay in that building.
253 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:12 pm Report abuse
@250 - Guzz

Mr Assange has spent the last year appealing against extradition in the UK law system. He lost all of those appeals because his argument that this is politically motivated is unsubstantiated.

Now the UK courts must believe there is sufficient evidence to support his extradition. Hence, why he ran away like a coward and hid in the Ecuador embassy.

Why should the Swedes come to the UK? If someone commits a crime in one of the many countries you claim to be a citizen of, then runs to another country, why should the 1st country go to the second country when they can have the alleged criminal extradited?

I'm still waiting on your proof that this is all politcally motivated with the USA pulling the strings from behind the scenes.

Still waiting.....

Still waiting.....

Still waiting.....

Still waiting.....

Still waiting.....
254 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
slatzzz
Assange faces no charges in Sweden, he faces a hearing, something that isn't a crime in any place of our earth...
255 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:17 pm Report abuse
Ladies and gentlemen.....:

Julian Assange

www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2XE6mhemPM
256 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:18 pm Report abuse
I'm just quoting President Correa ”the charges he faces in Sweden are not a crime in latin america” He said it not me !!!!!!!! You tube it or something don't shoot the messenger
257 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
Lep, you know how they found out if a woman was a witch in Sweden back in the days? They drowned them, and should they survive, it was because they were witches and therefor they got burned to death.

You want Assange to go through the same process, personally, I wouldn't take the risk...
258 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:23 pm Report abuse
@255

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
259 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:25 pm Report abuse
slatzzz
And as Assange faces no charges in Sweden, Correa's statement is true...
260 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
Strange………………

The ”News Networks” are not broadcasting this…..
Maybe they ”Think” it’s ”No News”
I ”Think” it is ”News”.
Enjoy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddb57cezHGU
261 Lord Ton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
A self-publisist in search of a camera. The coward should face his accusers. It is not 'news' Think - it is a display of cowardice assisted by a third rate nation. The boys in blue should kick the doors in and put the fugitive in front of his accusers. Ecuador will suffer for this outrage !
262 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:00 pm Report abuse
(261) Mr Lorton

Of course,..., of course....
“A self-publisist in search of a camera”, you say.....
That's maybe why the “NewsNetworks” are not broadcasting him...
They are “protecting us” from the Cowardice Display from an Aussie Rapist...

Brainwash anybody?
263 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:19 pm Report abuse
#257 They did that to here in the 1600's, but that's a meaningless point. He is doing more harm to democratic systems and the “presumption of innocence” by not facing his accusations. Because one is presumed innocent does not mean one can evade the due process of law. And the self proclaimed avenger of truth is ignoring the modern democratic principle of due process, or more so demanding that the due process be carried out his way.
If Ecuador felt so strongly about Assange, then why did they not grant him political asylum, but merely diplomatic asylum? A concept created by OAS and not acknowledged by many non-south america countries. If Ecuador wanted to avoid this side show, they would have granted Assange political asylum and not diplomatic asylum, a concept most of the world is signed on to and acknowledges.
This is a platform for Ecuador to be a leader in the eyes of his continent. Correa has his 15 minutes of fame on the world stage.
264 Simon68 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
Guzz and friends:
1) Sweden has NO extradition treaty with the USA.
2) UK HAS extradition treaty with USA.
3) Sweden and UK DO have extradition treaty.

Now wouldn't it have been simpler for the USA to have asked UK to extradite Mr. Assange to answer whatever charges the USA might have brought against him? And while on the subject; the USA have not actually shown any interest whatsoever in bringing charges against him!

At this time Sweden merely wishes to question Mr. Assange about the allegations brought against him by two of his ex-employees whom he ALLEGEDLY sexually assaulted. There doesn't seem to be a political or diplomatic side to this situation!

Mr. Assange, by breaking bail, also broke UK law, so now he will be charged in the UK for that offence. No diplomatic or political side to this situation!

Mr. Correa has stated that attempted sexual assault is not a crime in South America, this I'm sure must please all the South American would-be rapists, and I'm sure that female leaders like Dilma Rousseff and Christina Fernández must also be thrilled to bits about that statement!!!!!
265 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
I find it hypocritical that Correa also stated and insisted that Assange must be allowed due process yet they deny a sovereign nation the ability to carry out due process under Sweden's own law.
266 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:40 pm Report abuse
Simon, Sweden HAS extradition treaty with the US, one from -63 and another from -84. Not only that, they also allow USA to transport non convicted, nor charged “prisoners” in their terrotory, all against their own laws.

Breaking bail as sole crime is not an offense worth mentioning, but sure, fine him :)

Correa said that the charges in Sweden are not a crime in SA.
Now, as the charges are non existant, this is a true statement. The rest is all happening in your head...
267 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:43 pm Report abuse
@ 259 I say again Correas statement “the charges he faces in sweden are not an offence in LATAM”. Don't you get it he said he faces charges not me, if it's true he faces no charges then Correa has fooked up not me mate
268 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
No slatzzz, learn your own language. “the charges he faces” doesn't mean “he faces charges”...
269 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:52 pm Report abuse
well why not say “there is no charge to answer in Sweden”, not the charges he faces are not an offence in latam, stating “the charges he faces in sweden” suggests to me there is a charge to answer, I know my own language very well thank you and I never said he faces charges Correa did get it now.
270 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 03:57 pm Report abuse
This reminds me of that autist guy (not you slatzzz), what was his name... McKinney? He is a British hacker that has been avoiding extradition to USA for 8 some years for hacking into Nasa and US military.

Mayhap this is why US wants Assange in their sub-nation of Sweden...
271 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:03 pm Report abuse
@270 - Guzz

Do you actually believe the nonsense that spills from your own mouth.

By the way still waiting for you to produce evidence that the US plan to extradite Assange from Sweden and that this is all one big international conspiracy to get him.

Still waiting Guzz, where's your evidence?

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

Still waiting...
272 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:11 pm Report abuse
Gary McKinnon, that's his name

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon

There's one reason Lep :)
273 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
A wikipedia quote of a computer hacker.....damn must be true!
274 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:18 pm Report abuse
m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/24/gary-mckinnon-extradition-decision-delayed?cat=world&type=article

There, same man, same case, but the Guardian instead of Wiki. More true now? :)
275 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
@272 - Guzz

Just one piece of evidence to support your conspiracy theory? Is that too much to ask?

You see, I'm open minded, but I don't believe in unfounded rumours and conspiracy theories. So if you can produce one piece of actual evidence to support these claims of an international conspiracy against Mr Assange, I'll change my mind

Just one piece, not too much to ask, is it Guzz?

Still waiting...
276 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:22 pm Report abuse
Well we can debate till the cows come home fact is soon as he steps foot outside that embassy he will be arrested for breaking the law in the UK ie bail conditions, the rest will be as they say history. He might be a very old man by then and go for the sympathy vote but heyho, shit happens. And I bet the Falklands will still be British
277 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:24 pm Report abuse
#274 you are aware that the USA also has charges and was indicted as well. Unlike St. Assange
278 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
“If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. ” ― Joseph Goebbels

Assange is a lier, Correa is a lier too. This is all a big lie, a victimization scheme. Correa is seeking elections, popularity, poor Ecuador.
Assange is a hypocrite exploiting an anti-american agenda, not interested in free speech. He never organized wikileaks to help and to give voice to millions of people living under totalitarian regimes in China, Cuba, North Korea, Iran and other dictatorships, his organization is not seeking hackers to expose those countries systematically violating human rights for hundreds of millions of people. Many in the world will be very interested to find out how Chinese officials negotiate terms with global corporations allowing them to exploit millions of chinese, without labor unions, without minimum labor rights. We all know the Chinese embassies around the world negotiate those terms closed-doors to benefit only the corporations and the chinese governments, betraying millions of chinese workers.
But Assange was more interested in trying to expose alleged US crimes, and found nothing but gossips and stupid diplomatic talk in those cables. A big waste, but popular for the ignorant massess around the world who have brainwashed by cheap and irrational anti-americanism.
279 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
Lep, since when is the burden of proof up to the defendant? You proove what you accuse him for. I'm not taking USA to court :)
280 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:30 pm Report abuse
If you hand out enough kool aid, people will eventually drink it.
281 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:44 pm Report abuse
@279

The point here is that by skipping bail and holing up in the Ecuadorean Embassy, Assange has aimed to ensure that nothing can be proved either way. Don't you find that just a little but suspect?
282 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
think we'll have a long wait either way and Ecuador will probably ask for international aid to feed him and pay thier broadband bills.......................that's a joke by the way
283 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:48 pm Report abuse
Easy solution, let the Swedes charge him. An extradition order to a hearing is something unheard of, and no laws in the world stops the Swedes from hearing him in the UK.
284 slattzzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
Actually thinking about it, it's probably not a joke
285 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:05 pm Report abuse
@283

But before they charge him, they have to conduct an investigation. Groundless prosecution is an offence under Swedish law. Surely you're not suggesting they should charge him without having conducted a proper investigation first?
286 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:11 pm Report abuse
Well Hasse
As you know, the accused isn't obliged to even testify in Sweden, so the Swedes can do their investigation regardless of Assange's whereabouts. As soon as they think they have enough material, they charge him and ask for his extradition. All by the book.
287 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:17 pm Report abuse
283 Guzz (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 04:48 pm

Who are you exactly to dictate to the Swedes how they conduct their judicial process? I don't know for sure why Sweden won't do this in the UK or indeed inside the Ecuadorian embassy but I can make a guess. My guess is that why the hell should they? This man is accused of a crime in Sweden. Not the UK and not Ecuador. To interview him in the Ecuadorian embassy is to accept Ecuador's meddling in the Swedish judicial system. And whilst this might make the Ecuadorians feel big and brave and confident, they actually look like a bunch of overbearing brats on a power trip.

I can imagine the Swedish investigator's initial private response to the request to interview this man outside Sweden.

I reckon it would be something like “f*ck that! This is not a British case and it is not an Ecuadorian case. It is a Swedish case and it will be conducted in Sweden”.

This is not arrogance. It is a matter of jurisdiction, Swedish jurisdiction and a man running away from Swedish law using a bogus accusation against the USA as an excuse and misguided 'automatic' supporters as a smokescreen. If there is any arrogance here it is from the the Ecuadorians.

Although I doubt very much that the UK will temporarily suspend the Ecuadorian embassy buildings political status it remains a perfectly legal and reasonable option made even more reasonable by the fact they they would only do it if the Ecuadorians decided enough was enough and agreed to it in the name of expediency or some such.

Finally, no country can EVER guarantee that a person will NEVER be extradited. If a third party nation makes a request for extradition the host country is obliged under international law to hear and consider it.

Ecuador. Butt out and stop dictating to us and Sweden how we should conduct our judicial system. Stop meddling, it has nothing to do with you even if you were a bastion of humans rights and freedom of speech which you most certainly are not.
288 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:20 pm Report abuse
Well Gus,
the legal validity of the Swedish Arrest Warrant has been the object of the last 18 months worth of legalizing, and the conclusion is that the extradition request is already 'by the book', and furthermore the UK is obliged to act under it.

Nor is up to anybody else to dictate to the Swedes the precise form their investigatory and charging process should take. It would be especially bizarre in any legal system if the accused person was entitled to do so.
289 latinsoul (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
@247 This is for you and all haters, racists, fascists, neo-cons, ultra right HYPOCRITES!

The ARROGANCE of barbarian UK's William Hague is misguided, he
still believes in his country's RACIAL SUPERIORITY over the countries of Latin America and the rest of the world...

The ONLY honorable action for Ecuador and its President is to convey Ecuadorian CITIZENSHIP to Mr. Assange... since Australia [his birthplace] is conspiring with Sweden and the USA seek his DEMISE!
Let the chips fall where they may!
290 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
278 JoseAngeldeMonterrey, “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. ” ― Joseph Goebbels

That's right! Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
US and UK went to war based on another big lie. It killed tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians of a nation that had never attacked or harmed the U.S.
I am sure you were one of that many over there believing the lies of these two countries.

Watched this video(posted before at 165) and look who is exposing the same criminals that now wants to hunt him.

Listen closely “that's their fault from bringing their kids to a battle....that's right!”

I believe people that commits rape should have their penis “removed”, but this is not about rape.

www.france24.com/en/20100406-leaked-video-shows-us-military-killing-civilians-reuters-staff
291 LEPRecon (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
@279 - Guzz

Assange is innocent until proven guilty, but since he is trying to avoid due process, what are we to believe?

But this isn't about whether he is innocent, this is about him avoiding due process by proclaiming an international conspiracy against him.

So in your own words it's up to him to provide the burden of proof of this conspiracy, as the international community are innocent until proven guilty of such a conspiracy, I'm sure you agree with that.

So where is Assanges evidence of this conspiracy? Where?

Still waiting Guzz...
292 Englander (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:13 pm Report abuse
Alexander Barankov sits, today, in a Quito jail awaiting extradition to Belarus. He is charged with “fraud” for blogging about corruption in the former Soviet country and angering its dictator, Alexander Lukashenko.

Brainwash anybody?

Fair play to Assange though, he did lambast Putin for sticking Pussy Riot in jail. I guess he can't say anything about poor Alexander or else he'd be hiding out in Harrods. Personally I found his speech very entertaining and look forward to his next Balcony appearance.
293 Steve-32-uk (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:39 pm Report abuse
www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/11685-ecuador-comes-out-winner-as-uk-overreaches-with-assange-threats-on-likely-behalf-of-us
294 CJvR (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:47 pm Report abuse
@279 - “Lep, since when is the burden of proof up to the defendant?”

Yes, and since you are the one accusing the Swedish and British of being part of this vast anti-Assange conspiracy the burden of proof is on you.
295 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
If we apparently made an error, over this letter,
And Ecuador gets upset,

Then surely
Mr. Correa has stated that attempted sexual assault is not a crime in South America,

Then why has not the worlds press took this up, why has women all over the world not picked up on this, why is the British government top using this against Ecuador,
??????????????????
.
296 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
@290

The lie in this case would appear to be the one that evil will triumph in the world if Assange is not allowed to skip bail on a rape case. That's pretty believable, coming from the party most directly concerned.
297 Forgetit86 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
What good is it to be a democracy if you don't even allow yourself to disagree with your government?

China, Iran Britain -- the story is the same. Out of some stupid nationalistic pride, people debase themselves into becoming mindless cheerleaders of whatever is the government's policy today. At least in China and Iran this process isn't entirely voluntary. But in Britain, it seems people decide to be shortsighted jingoists, as this thread shows.
298 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
287 & 288

All fine to jear about the rules you play by when it comes to meddling in sovereign nations jurisdictions. Those rules applies to muslims as well? Or are you free to meddle? How about Argentina? There you can meddle, can't you? In the Malvinas/Falklands you are meddling quite fine...
Problem is, we don't give a darn about your set of rules. They were written by you to proctect yourself and criminalize anything that opposes you.
Shovel your hypocricy up where it belongs. We don't believe in you. Either.
299 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
Just admit it, José, you're a US government bitch who will defend democracy and liberal values only when, by so doing, you can score a few cheap points at the expense of US enemies such as Venezuela or Ecuador. But as soon as attention turns to the US's own failure to uphold the values you supposedly treasure -- a good example of which is the treatment afforded to Bradley Manning and Wikileaks -- you become an apologist (and a rather feckless one at that) for Western double standards. It's almost like you believe that it is only in the Third World that governments ought to safeguard democracy; the First World can afford itself the luxury to be democratic only when it suits it.
300 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
The British Falkland Islands always manages to appear not matter what the article is......lol.
So when you say Muslim......is that a ordinary Muslim or a combatant? Or a extremist? I surmise you are also Ecuadorian and not Swedish based your statement
“Problem is, we don't give a darn about your set of rules. They were written by you to proctect yourself and criminalize anything that opposes you.”
in response to #287's statement of “Ecuador. Butt out and stop dictating to us and Sweden how we should conduct our judicial system”
301 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
@298

That's right. The rape statutes in Sweden were written long ago with the express intention of preventing courageous freedom fighters from finding sanctuary in democratic Latin American countries. And I guess it's wrong to laugh at petulant hussy fits too.
302 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
298 Guzz (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 06:56 pm

I think we all know where Malvinistas stand with regard to the Falkland Islands needless to say it is they who are meddling in UK/FI affairs in the South Atlantic but are far too arrogant and brainwashed to admit to it.

Back to the topic in hand however. That the UK 'meddles' in Muslim affairs is your opinion and your opinion can be argued against. For example, there are an awful lot of muslims in Syria right now demanding that we 'meddle' in their civil war and hate us for not doing so whilst in Libya there are an awful lot of muslims who are very glad that the UK and others 'meddled' in their civil war too.

Conversely there are a lot of muslims who are very angry that we 'meddled' in their affairs and still more muslims that hate us for simply existing, opinion is divided and it is all water off a ducks back. The point I want to make is that this is between the UK (and others) and the people in those countries. Your opinion on this, much like your opinion about the Falkland Islands; noted and duly rejected has got nothing to do with you or any other malvinista.

Yours is nothing more than an attempt at distraction. A clear sign that you are, again, losing this argument. You are unconditionally supporting an alleged rapist with no more evidence than your gut feeling and a burning desire to score a political point which is utterly reprihensible.
303 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:49 pm Report abuse
Hahahaha
All I hear is a whole lot of fuzz and no “Yes, we can meddle, but you can't”. As it is and should be according to you.
Personally, I'm meddling as much as you lot when posting your opinions on Uruguay, Argentina and the rest of SA. In the big picture, Ecuador has every right to meddle such as you take your freedoms to meddle everywhere else on the planet.
You lot are history, and it can't put words to my joy. And don't nationalize now, “you” know who “you” are :)
304 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
I'll take that as an admission of defeat then. Nothing else of substance just an angry, bitter knee jerk reaction. Not an ounce of thought. I was hoping for better. You really should refrain from posting when you are angry you know? You come across quite intelligent when you do.
305 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 07:58 pm Report abuse
#302

Most Syrians actually support Assad, y'know. Apart from the FSA, I don't think Syrians want more violence in their country, be it by the government, by the FSA or by external actors.

And I don't know why you have to put the verb “to meddle” in quotes everytime you mention Britain's occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you not think the Iraq War -- which threw Iraqi life standards many decades back -- is a good example of aggressive, brutal, disastrous and unjustifiable meddling in a Muslim country's internal affairs?

It seems you don't like to admit that much of the anti-British hatred has a reasonable basis -- it is a response to your country's policies. It may be more suitable to your nationalistic feelings to believe that people hate you because they just do, that this is no fault of your own. But should we really resort to this fanciful theory when your country has the history that it does?

Wikipedia has list of terrorist attacks in Britain. Prior to the Iraq War, all terrorist attacks in Britain were perpetrated either by Irish armed factions or by domestic terrorists with extreme right- or left-wing views -- there were no Muslims among pre-2000s perpetrators of terrorism. Certainly Muslims have known of Britain's existence before the Iraq War. So why didn't they attack your country before that, if they truly despise you only by virtue of your existence? Well, perhaps their hatred towards Britains have more rational causes than you're willing to recognize.
306 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:02 pm Report abuse
Furry
You are not in doubt when I'm angry, don't worry, the abuse gets endless, increasing and sarcastic. I've promised myself not let you lot take me to those levels, but my first encounter with conqueror was unexpected.
I tell you again, in cool blood, you seem to find your excuses when it comes to you meddling in the world, yet you preach and point defending Swedens and UK's right of jurisdiction. That's hypocricy, and deserves no better response than what you got.
307 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:16 pm Report abuse
TWIMC

Live transmision of the Unasur meeting in Guayaquil, Ecuador.
www.ecuadortv.ec/ecu.php?c=43

Time for the United Banana Kingdom to apologize…..
And pay for Assange's first class ticket to Quito, Ecuador....
308 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:33 pm Report abuse
That’s no good, its all in foreign lingo

But we get the gaff,

We can do what we want, blab la,
Britain will pay for this blab la ,
The yanks will beg for mercy, blab la,

They don’t know who the are dealing with , we will conquer the Americas blab la .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Lets be fair here,
They can do nothing,
They will do nothing
Unless
The British and the Americans and the Australians and the Swedes get on their knees and beg for forgiveness,
That may be what you lot want,
But you have more chance of CFK flying through the air like a snowman, than you have of the brow beating the fantastic [4]

Its only a bloga .

.
309 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
TWIMC

Geeeeee.....

That was short....
It took just 15 minutes for the 12 Foreign Ministers of South-America to reach absolute consensus against the United Banana Kingdom threats ....

A proud day for my Continent
Think is happy.....
310 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
@306 Guzz (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:02 pm

Guzz. Conk is an idiot. Ignore him.

We meddle, we don't meddle, people demand our help, people demand we butt out, people hate us, people think we are okay, most don't give us a second thought which is kind of okay by me. Look at the post before yours, number 305? Here is some bloke accusing me of overusing the word 'meddle' and he can't even see your use of exactly the same word and the fact that I am simply responding to it.

We treat every country differently because every country is different. No country can afford a standard blanket approach to diplomacy because cultural incompatibility can cause great offence.

Like it or not the UK has its obligations toward Sweden and we are taking that obligation very seriously because after all it is a very serious accusation that Julian Assange is trying to dodge. I am sorry if you think that we are being arrogant or unfair but there is little else we can do. I am sorry that we do not see eye to eye, I am sorry that we cannot seem to be friends and just get on. I am sorry that Malvinistas can't just accept the Falkland Islanders and leave them in peace but we all have a cross to bear. We can't always have what we want.

307 Think (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:16 pm

What do we need to apologise for bloke? That Unasur is having a meeting? I am not convinced myself.
311 Musky (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 08:58 pm Report abuse
@307 Think
Bananas don't grow in the uk, they're mostly imported from South America.

Assange has a god complex and the president of Correa is no beacon of free speech. Correa hopes to score highly amongst his latam friends but as with those of his ilk it is a typical own goal, by offering immunity (which it is not) to a bail jumper whose alleged crimes are of sexual nature not a wiki nature he seeks to violate local and international law. All this crap about extradition from Sweden, if the USA wanted Assange they'd extradite him from the UK. In any event neither Sweden or UK would not allow extradition if the death penalty were a possibility. Assange is playing Correa like the sexistility fool that he is. 2 months in the Ecuadorian embassy already, sounds like prison too me.

I watched a hiliarous 'Newsnight' program on the BBC. Assange had been working on acquiring swedish citizenship as it is a champion of free speech(just like uk) whereas you can get 2 years in prison in ecuador if you poke fun at the president. Ecuadorian's don't get full human rights so the president's offer is a hypocritical disgrace.
312 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
www.businessinsider.com/julian-assange-americas-war-on-wikileaks-must-end-2012-8
Julian Assange

read it if you have an interest.
313 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
@312 briton (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:00 pm

His short speech focused on calling out the U.S. government for its attitude toward his whistleblower organization.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com/julian-assange-americas-war-on-wikileaks-must-end-2012-8#ixzz241p6EYgR

Well well well. He is calling out the US government is he? Very brave. Very noble.

The Swedish prosecution service have called Julian Assange out with regard to accusations about rape.

Based on his response to that do you think the US Government should hide in a South American embassy in Washington DC and ask for political asylum?
314 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
#310

So instead of an answer -- what, you can't answer? -- I get misrepresented? I didn't accuse you of overusing the word “meddle”; I only asked why do you have to put that word between quotation marks. British meddling in the global South -- and specially, as of late, in the Muslim world -- is a fact: see the Iraq War. It is not, like you probably think, a tendentious left-wing reading of the facts. There's no need to speak of “British 'meddling'” -- it is “British meddling”.
315 Think (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
TWIMC

The unanimous decision from Unasur is going to cost the United Banana Kingdom dearly...

Its not longer enough for them to apologize…..
Nor to pay for his first class ticket to Quito….
They will have to buy him dinner too….
And fix him a date with Kate Moss…

Chuckle chuckle©
316 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
Freedom of the Press
www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2011/ecuador
Ecuador
Press freedom in Ecuador deteriorated sharply in 2010. An increasing culture of harassment against journalists has resulted in part from President Rafael Correa’s open hostility to the media,……
During the year, President Rafael Correa engaged in regular harsh verbal diatribes against the press, which he has called “my greatest political enemy,” “ignorant,” “mediocre,” “primitive,” “corrupt,” “bloodthirsty,” and “deceitful.” In reaction to criticism

Think no nothing, to the ways of the banana,
Only his own skin……………..
Britain has done nothing wrong……
But enforce its own laws….

And its nothing, but nothing , to do with Ecuador or south America,.
But when he goes of to sweden, will you argies bloggers slag sweden of, we think not,
So you are again just preaching anti british , rather that justice …
mmmmmmmm
313 we agree,
317 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:23 pm Report abuse
314 Forgetit87 (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:13 pm

My quotation of the word meddle is my rejection of your accusation. Not that we don't meddle we do, of course we do. What I reject is your firm belief that the UK is somehow different to any other country, that only the UK meddles. Everybody else, you imply, is as pure as the driven snow and merely a victim of British 'meddling'. Every country 'meddles'. Yes, even Argentina meddles. I suppose what I am trying to say is 'don't throw stones if you have glass windows'.
318 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:25 pm Report abuse
Think

You do not say, exactly what they have agreed,

It’s all in foreign lingo,

So you will have to translate,
If you can.
.
319 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:28 pm Report abuse
@314

heavens, how can anybody arguevwith that? Anglophobia is where it's at because history consists of a list of bad things done by Brits, while the Iraq war justifies Ecuadorean interference in the Swedish legal process. Brits who cannot follow this logic are either ignorant or hypocrites.
320 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
319 HansNiesund (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:28 pm

Then I stand accused of ignorant hypocrisy because I can't make head or tail of it myself.

Maybe I should seek asylum in Iraq or some such. Whaddya think?
321 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
#319

You think what? that people just choose to despise such and such country? that this is an arbitrary process completely detatched from historical and political events? And by the way, I made no link between the Iraq War or the Ecuador situation -- you're attacking a strawman. It's that the subject of terrorism in Britain came up, and I think it's reasonable to see it in the context of Britain's foreign policy blunders. Ecuador's assistence to Assange is justifiable, but on other grounds altogether -- that of defense of free speech and of protection to those who face political persecution.
322 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:45 pm Report abuse
South American bloc adopts resolution on UK threats to Ecuador

rt.com/news/unasur-condemns-uk-threats-ecuador-072/

The organization vowed to encourage all parties to the Assange case to continue dialogue to find a solution within the framework of international law

[in other words, nothing , ]]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
But
,,,,
New information came to light on Sunday about a possible deal between Assange and Sweden. If Stockholm issues a guarantee that it will not extradite Assange to the US, he will comply with country’s request to question him on Swedish soil, WikiLeaks spokesperson Kristinn Hrafnsson told AFP.

And the 3rd world can go back to playing at [leader of the gang]
mmmmm
.
323 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:51 pm Report abuse
No Hans, the hypocricy shows when you accuse people of meddling with Swedish jurisdiction. As Furry said, don't throw stones...
324 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
Well now it has been conformed, that the south American nations, will not invade the UK or send its military to testiest us all,
We can sleep easy in our beds,

Boy could you imaging the south American leaders singing ring a ring of roses out side Harrods.

Definetly not,,lolol

see you guys monday,
enjoy your discussions .
325 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:01 pm Report abuse
@324 briton (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 09:53 pm

Well thank the gods and all the angels. I was starting to get worried for a moment there. Thanks for the update. Phew!
326 briton (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:03 pm Report abuse
anytime.
327 HansNiesund (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
@321

No of course I don't think people or countries are despised for no reason. Nor do I think that Britain has no policy failures, or has never done anything reprehensible. What I am struck by, on the other hand, is that the kind of rhetoric I am hearing from you I have only ever heard from Malvinistas, jihadis, Zionists, and Iranians. Only the latter have real grounds for complaint, everything else is doctrine.
328 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:15 pm Report abuse
Are those the same South Americas who embraced and promoted friendly relationships Kadaffi, Castro and Ahmadineyad and just about every other tyrant in the globe?

Well then I am not surprise.
329 Musky (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:25 pm Report abuse
And so now his latam friends back down from supporting the non-gift of asylum to Assange and merely support the affront of the so called 'threat' to Ecuador by Britain to acquire Assange. Britain like the good diplomat merely informed the Ecuadorian embassy of the legal situation in our country. It's our law and was brought in to allow us to act when rogue nations cause us major trouble and loss of life .. the Iranian Embassy and the killing of an unarmed police woman. So Ecuador was affronted by our upfrontwardness (is that a word), but it's not like britain had just used CAPITAL LETTERS in a text ! :-)
330 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:32 pm Report abuse
#327

Fair enough, perhaps I'll respond later.

#328

As a cheerleader for US foreign policy, you aren't really in a position to whine. The US itself, which projects an image as protector of democracy, of leader of the free world, has cultivated diplomatic and economic relations with a number of countries whose human rights record doesn't really stand out from those that you listed -- Saudi Arabia, China, Uzbekistan, and yes, Gadaffi's Libya as well, are only the most obvious examples.

We in South Americans know by experience how empty is this preachy rhetoric that you're repeating, as the many military dictatorships that replaced previously existing democracies in the continent, only managed to ascend in the first place due to US support. At least Correa, Chávez and the others don't pretend they're for universal democracy, at the same time they do businesses with tyrannies, like the US does. Their position is clear -- they're against interventions, even when they target non-democratic countries. Unlike you, they're consistent.

And by the way, I don't really see how having relations with the countries that you listed, somehow means we should throw Assange to the lions. You're getting more incoherent with each new post, in this poor attempt of yours to point the hypocrisy of others, when the only hypocrisy is that of the self-professed defenders of freedom -- the US, Britain and Sweden.
331 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:39 pm Report abuse
Musky
Noone really cares about your laws, we are all waiting for you to breach international law :)
332 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
331 Guzz (#)
Aug 19th, 2012 - 10:39 pm

I am sure when we do you will try to invade the Falkland Islands. Good luck with that and good night. I'm for my bed.
333 Musky (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:03 pm Report abuse
Dream on!
334 Guzz (#) Aug 19th, 2012 - 11:16 pm Report abuse
So empty threats then? Or mayhap you lot thought Ecuador were interested in your domestic laws? Was it offered as a peaceful solution, you'd want me to think?
335 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 12:32 am Report abuse
330 Forgetit87,

Why do you defend demagogue clowns the likes of Correa and Chavez? Criticizing them does not necessarily mean being on the side of the US or Britain, stop characterizing me that way, it doesn't work.
336 Monty69 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 12:47 am Report abuse
What would entertain me would be if someone would hack the details of CFKs financial and political dealings and put them on Wikileaks, followed by Chavez's and Correa's.
And then we can ship that creepy sod off to Ecuador and he can talk about freedom of speech to his heart's content.
337 JoseAngeldeMonterrey (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 02:23 am Report abuse
336,

That will be a very illustrating example that will explain much of what is happening today in many of these south american nations.
CFK was a real politician who understood the principles of good governance and the impact of sound public policies.

These animals governing countries in South America are real clowns, demagogues, irresponsible populists who are destroying their countries economies with their frivolity. They uncapable of showing any respect for democratic institutions in their own countries, in fact they have destroyed them all. Chavez has erased the division of powers like a banana republic dictator.

And then some commenters come here to defend them.
338 ynsere (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 02:56 am Report abuse
I'm afraid I fail to see any parallel at all between the Falklands issues and Mr. Assange's problems. I'm interested in the former, not the latter. This whole thread is a non-starter.
339 Guzz (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 04:58 am Report abuse
Jose
They aren't only all that you accuse them for, they are above all chosen by the people ;)
340 Lord Ton (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:29 am Report abuse
262 - sorry for the delay Think - but as the speech was brodcast everywhere I looked I don't quite see your brainwashed point!
341 Musky (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 07:17 am Report abuse
332 FFF
Sorry, my 333 response was aimed ar Guzz.

Did britain make threats?britain merely reported the responsibilities of bot sides.
342 Englander (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:38 am Report abuse
340
Yeah wall to wall Assange here as well. This case does however throw up some difficult feminist issues that might be concerning the Argentine censors.
343 Lord Ton (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 09:19 am Report abuse
If you are talking about the VICTIMS - they appear to have got lost in the bullsh*t !
344 Clyde15 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 10:16 am Report abuse
I listened to Mr Assange's speech yesterday. It was full of his usual rhetoric.
Not once did he mention why he was being extradited to Sweden - nothing to do with his political stance - but to answer charges of rape.
I do not know if these charges are valid but I am sure that the Swedish justice system would be fair and impartial. If the charges are disproved then he would be free to seek asylum in the bastion of democracy that is Ecuador.
As for Ecuador, they are only offering him asylum so that they can get one against the “Gringos”. Why did he not approach China, N.Korea or Russia. Maybe he likes bananas
If Assange released confidential papers and texts showing the Ecuadorian govt. in a bad light, he would disappear from the scene pretty quickly.
As for the sight of Latin America being outraged at the UK, what a joke !!
345 HansNiesund (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 10:43 am Report abuse
@338
Of course it's relevant to the Falkands dispute. Here we have the Big Bad British Bogeyman at work again, threatening to violate the sovereignity Of Ecuador to fill their Embassy with whatever alleged rapists they like. Therefore the Malvinas must be Argentinas.

This lind of stuff gets quite easy when you get the hang of it. Guzz and Forgetit are even kindly offering a distance learning course from the Malvinista School of British Bogeymen Studies. It's very instructive if you can set aside conventional notions of logic.
346 Betelgeuse (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 12:33 pm Report abuse
Think

Well done mate! As usual you're running complete rings around the usual suspects - keep up the great work.
347 Englander (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 12:53 pm Report abuse
346
Would have to travel a long way to come across someone as servile and slimy than your good self.
348 Gordo1 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 01:12 pm Report abuse
Correa has a chip on his shoulder concerning the US. His father was convicted of smuggling cocaine into the US and then subsequently committed suicide; Correa blames the Americans for this and, by association, Britain.

Ricardo Patiño is a political appointee and his qualifications to be a diplomat are absolutely zero. He is not respected by Ecuadorian career diplomats but he, too, has an even bigger chip on his shoulder.
349 latinsoul (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 01:30 pm Report abuse
@344clyde15.....are you a “gringo”???/ or do you sprang from fetid europe?

your kind elicits outrage not discourse...what do BANANAS have to do with this? you are so stupid to know or understand that BANANAS is a commodity, a source of revenue not a pejorative used by the likes of you the IGNORANT of this world...who exhibit a complexioned/neurotic notions of racial superiority...
350 Englander (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 01:41 pm Report abuse
344
Its Putin that Assange should really fear. My advice would be for him to avoid having tea with any Russian who appears to glow ever so slightly in the dark.

349
I like bananas as well.
351 Clyde15 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 02:01 pm Report abuse
#349
Calm down sonny !!!! Please read what I said C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y
I said that I could see no reason for Mr.Assange to cho0se Ecuador unless he liked bananas. Bananas are the main export of Ecuador - we buy them and eat them as they are very good. As a sophisticated Australian, he would hardly go there for their culture and freedom of speech
In no sense did I use the word bananas to mean anything else than the fruit and to imply anything else shows how dim and prejudiced you are.
Yes I live in what you like to term as “fetid Europe” - Scotland actually./
Gringo is a term that we believe Latams use as a derogatory term for N. Europeans or maybe I have been watching too many western with Mexican themes.
I do not feel racially superior to anyone.

I have travelled fairly extensively and felt inferior as a human being to some people and superior to others as I suspect you may have.

As a matter of fact, I was talking to some Ecuadorians at the weekend when they were manning their tourist stand at the Bird Fair at Rutland.
They were very nice people as were the Colombians, Venezuelans, Chileans and Brazilians who were anxious to visit their countries as tourists. As far as I could see, no one was going near the Argentinian tourist board stand. I think we all felt a little embarrassed for the guys there.
So, Mr latinsoul, over to you. he sun is shining - unusual here, Gods in his heaven and all's right with world.
352 Faulconbridge (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
'Bananas are the main export of Ecuador'
Bananas and 'Panam'a hats, Clyde15@351.

An obvious solution: an exchange of people waiting to be deported. Captain Alexander Barankov, formerly of the Belarussian army goes to the U.K. and Assange goes to Ecuador
353 Truth_Telling_Troll (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 04:43 pm Report abuse
@345

Problem is, you are the bogeyman. But so is Spain, Germany, France, the USA, Italy, and anyother country who equates temporary economic superiority (remember where Argentina was 100 years ago compared to all those countries), and assumes it gives them the right to piss on everyone else.
354 Condorito (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
@Clyde15
You were at the bird fair! Good on you. I am part owner of a little business here that takes people out to the Isla Damas to see Humboldt penguins. And you are from Scotland. I love Scotland. In fact I have a poster of the Bass Rock on my office wall. I love them wee Puffins. Beautiful birds - got the evolution just right, excellent swimmers, whilst maintaining the ability to fly. I always think the Penguins went too far with the swimming and losing the ability to fly.

Anyway, it is clear to any South American that your comments are not in the least racist, so pay no attention to Mr lemonsole.

FYI “Gringo” down here is not pejorative. It is merely a descriptive term. For us there are Gringos, Chinos, Turcos and Negros. If you are whiter than us you are a Gringo, if you are darker you are a Negro; if you are Asian looking you are a Chino and if you are Arabic looking you are a Turco. Keeps things nice and easy. For example our only tennis player to make world number one (Marcelo Rios) had slanty eyes, so he was referred to in all mediums as “Chino Rios”. President Piñea's brother, the black sheep of the family is referred to as “Negro Piñera”.
355 Faulconbridge (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:02 pm Report abuse
'But so is Spain, Germany, France, the USA, Italy, and anyother country who equates temporary economic superiority (remember where Argentina was 100 years ago compared to all those countries)'
Actually, a hundred years ago the per capita income of Argentina equalled that of Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium and surpassed Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and Spain.
356 Think (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:09 pm Report abuse
(336) Monty69

You say:
“ What would entertain me would be if someone would hack the details of CFKs financial and political dealings and put them on Wikileaks, followed by Chavez's and Correa's.”

I say:
I “Think” that the CIA already has hacked all those details, dearest.

And they haven't put them on “CIAleaks” because ...... Well, because there is not much to leak, dearest.
357 HansNiesund (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
@353

Indeed, Argentina's failure to achieve its economic potential over the last 100 years is an extremely interesting subject, albeit somewhat off topic. But what exactly have the French, Italians, and Germans done to you?
358 Conor (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:39 pm Report abuse
@357
But what exactly have the French, Italians, and Germans done to you?

Other then make up a great deal of Argentina's population as a result of colonisation? Yeah us evil bogeymen we are so bad for bringing Argentina into the world. I think Mr TTT needs to re-evaluate his nationalistic hatred somewhere else.
359 Englander (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
FOGL shares up today. Watch out for some really good news later in the week.
360 Think (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 06:25 pm Report abuse
TWIMC

Sometimes I ask myself……......................

Do the Turnips in here never get tired of embarrasing themselves…..?
Just have a look at comment No.:359 by ”Englander”
He says:
“FOGL shares up today. Watch out for some really good news later in the week.”

I say:
O'RLY?...:

FOGL - FALKLAND OIL AND GAS LIMITED
Closing price on 20-Aug-2012: 87.00 pennies
Down 2.25pennies
Down 2.52%
www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=FK00B030JM18GBGBXAMSM

What a Turnip!
361 dab14763 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 07:23 pm Report abuse
It seems many above think the UK government has discretion on this issue; that it can override the decision of the courts. It doesn't, and it can't. Unlike with an extradition treaty, the European Arrest Warrant does not allow for the Secretary of State to make the final decision

eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2002F0584:20090328:EN:PDF

see page 3 of pdf, paras (8) and (9)

Nor is it necessary for a charge to have been made. The requirement is for an intention to prosecute.

see page 4 of pdf Article 1 para 1

Court rulings

www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/jud-aut-sweden-v-assange-judgment.pdf

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html

Sweden wants Assange for prosecution and not simply for questioning.
362 briton (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 07:36 pm Report abuse
.Are you guys still at it,

The bbc news today, has downgraded this story to the last bit of the news, and it was merely a repeat of yesterday, sky news has also downgraded it,

So until something of interest happens, what the hell,

Let the Ecuadorians have there ego trip,
They may yet regret giving this man asylum.
363 GFace (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:05 pm Report abuse
@362

I suspect that the Ecuadorians who have to share their modest space with him on a daily basis *already* regret it! Someone who drew the short straw lost an office to him!
364 Forgetit87 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
@José

When you attack Assange's character, and reduce all of his work as a whitleblower to the dumb, debate-suppressing label of “anti-American”, it gets pretty clear what side you are on.

The same goes when you criticize Correa's supposed hypocrisy whilst failing to even mention the West's. Just like Correa, the US does businesses with the likes of Saudi Arabia and China, it fails to voice much criticism against their human rights records, and it occasionally supports their suppression of popular manifestations (see the Bahrain uprising) -- all the while portraying itself as the leader of the free world, as the protector of the world's democracies. Yet I don't hear as much as a peep out of you regarding US and Western foreign policy. Quite the contrary, those who expose US roguery you denounce as “anti-American”. It is only the “hypocrisy” of Correa and Chávez - leaders without much of an ability to affect, for better or for worse, the world outside their countries - that elicits any reaction from you.
365 Condorito (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:28 pm Report abuse
Monty / Think
Remember last year the Colombian army captured a FARC computer containing evidence that Chavez backed the FARC. When they made that information public Sr Chavez responded by ordering “all division” to battle readiness and “10 more divisions to the border”.

So, to answer Monty’s question: when Chavez’s dirty secrets are made public he responds by threatening war.

I like Wikileaks and what they have achieved, I think Assange should face the allegations against him in Sweden.

Hermano Think, if you are for free speech and against abuse of power you should call it out in all its forms and not polarise everything through an anti-US prism (I apologise for mixing optical references).
366 Englander (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
360
And guess which muppet just had to check.
Anyway watch out for some fantastic news .
You'll be blown away. ;-)
367 briton (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
363 GFace
agreed.

another nail,
but run out of wood,

wikileaks may or may not be a good thing,

but it does not put the whistleblowers above the law.
368 Think (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
(365) Condorito

Esciusme ???

”Polarizing everything through an anti-US prism, you say?

Qui……………..? Moi………………..?

Assuming a bit too much……..............., aren’t we?

Would you please point me to ONE of my comments in which a “polarized prismatic Anti-US tunnel view” can be found?
369 Clyde15 (#) Aug 20th, 2012 - 11:46 pm Report abuse
#247
Where do you get your figures for the Typhoon squadrons. At present the RAF have only 6 squadrons.
I was at RAF Coningsby last week and the squadron complement there - the main base - is 3, 17, 29 and 41 Squadrons.
RAF Leuchars has 6 squadron with 1 squadron reforming on Battle of Britain day.
The Falklands have 4 aircraft on permanent detachment

The 53 tranche 1 aircraft have been delivered.
The 67 tranche 2 aircraft are being delivered over an indeterminate timescale.
The 40 tranche 3 contract has been signed and these will be delivered later with the tranche 1 aircraft being withdrawn from service in the period 2015/2018.
This will leave the RAF with 107 Typhoons in service until 2030 - at least, that is the plan !
#354
Off topic ! Chile has been on our short list of countries to visit.
We talked with the Chilean reps. at bird fair last year combining it with a visit to the Falklands but have put this on the back burner until the dust settles. We even fancied Argentina and had talks with some pleasant tour companies there about visiting Chubut. This is certainly out of the question now. I would need an escort from the Royal Marines, Dauntless and some Typhoons to go anywhere near there. To put it crudely, I would feel as welcome as a fart in a space suit !
I was watching some Puffins flying out at sea tonight. They have the aerodynamics of a brick. When the wings stop beating, it's a controlled crash. Gannets are more fun to watch. They drop vertically out of the sky from about 20 metres and hit the water like an arrow. If we could have entered them in our Olympic diving team, we would have swept the board. I could have sent you some good pictures of our sea birds if I had your email address but I realise that neither of us would wish to make our addresses known with some of the nutters that post here.
370 latinsoul (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 03:42 am Report abuse
If depraved Spaniard jailbirds had not descended to the Americas, and no deceases would have exterminated the indigenous people of the continent!
European GREED was/is the cause of so much genocide, thieving, rape and slavery of the “pacific Peoples of the Americas”!

All conceivable manner of EVIL was carried out against the Americas “unsuspecting” Peoples to robe them of their Gold and precious stones more than 500 years ago....today they are still robbed of their richness but most disgraceful of all, they are robbed of their DIGNITY by the offspring of haters and racists with the illness of SUPERIORITY complexes!
371 Think (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 03:53 am Report abuse
(354) & (369)

Off Topic….

Puffins are nice birds, and they taste good!
Most birds do.
372 Be serious (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
Turkey Neck isn't a nice bird, she tastes of plastic.
Most ugly old birds trying to recapture their long lost youth do.
373 Clyde15 (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:33 am Report abuse
#370
Yes, you are probably correct in what you say. This happened worldwide.
The Romans,Persians, Egyptians, Mongols, Ottomans, Zulus and more recently The European countries preyed on technically less advanced peoples. The indigenous populations of N.America and S.America made a good job amongst their own kind.
The Incas, Mayans, Toltecs and Aztecs made a pretty good job of slaughtering their neighbours.
It is Darwinism red in tooth and claw - the survival of the fittest -not the nicest.
By the way, your pseudonym is rather unfortunate as it gives the impression that you identify with these “conquistadors”

#370
I think you would have to be rather hungry to eat a Puffin. The meat tastes like a combination of fish and salt - so I have been told.
374 CJvR (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
Seems it is bound for the ICJ in Hague, it is not as if either side can back down now. Not that it will matter much since the ICJ really have nothing else to decide than the validity of the Swedish warrant - now upheld by half a dozen courts in two countries. That should take a few years, nice of Assange to lock himself up - saves the Swedish taxpayers the expense. By the time this is over I suspect Assange will have spent more time behind his self-made bars than he would ever be sentenced to by a Swedish court.
375 Guzz (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 01:05 pm Report abuse
Nah, we just need to be noisy enough for USA to speak up. Just enough for them to entangle themselves in the net of words, assuring they morally can't extradite Assange to USA. What the Swedes and the Brits do is not relevant.
376 HansNiesund (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
@375

> What the Swedes and the Brits do is not relevant.

Wow, there's a change of position. What prompted that?

But if the Swedes and Brots are now irrelevant, do you think Julian should take the opportunity to clear his name in Sweden?
377 Condorito (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 02:53 pm Report abuse
Think / Clyde
This thread has gone on way too long.
Clyde I am amused that details of a typhoon squadron is not “off topic” but puffins are! I agree about the Gannets elegance, but still love the puffins.

Think, you ate a puffin? I’ve never tried one, but mi suegra swears gull eggs are great.
Evidence of your polarisation of world events through optical prismatic finely polished precision...er...opticts? This thread Thinkmeister!
If Assange had leaked docs on the French, Chinese or Russians and not the Americans there would be no conspiracy theory. In fact he would probably be dead. The French would have put a bomb under his toilet ala Rainbow Warrior, the Russians would have put plutonium in his Veggiemite and the Chinese, well they just love free speech and would have sent him to visit Liu Xiaobo.

Look at the case of Gary Mackinnon, the Scottish hacker who humiliated the Pentagon by waltzing through their security. The charges against him are much more serious than they would be (“would” because there are none, yet) against Assange. The Pentagon accuses Mackinnon of “the biggest military hack ever”, he stood down US security on 11 Sep, he rendered US navy weapons systems useless, etc. Yet they have followed protocol and gone through the extradition procedure. They haven’t invented a bizarre plot to get him to Sweden, allowed him to leave Sweden, invented charges against him while in Sweden, tried to get him extradited to Sweden, allowed him to take refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy....why not...because that would be absurd!
Fishier than puffin meat!
378 Think (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 07:59 pm Report abuse
(377) Condorito

You ask:
”Think, you ate a puffin?”

I answer:
Yes Condorito, I have eaten Puffin….. several times in the Færøerne and Island.
Contrary to what (373) Mr. Clyde15 “has been told”; it tastes good.
Yet another example of how gullible British Turnips can be…..
A simple ”I have been told” seems to be enough for them to utter what they, so haughty, call a “balanced and educated opinion”….

Furthermore, you say:
“Evidence of your polarisation of world events through optical prismatic finely polished precision...er...optics? This thread Thinkmeister!
They haven’t invented a bizarre plot to get him to Sweden, allowed him to leave Sweden, invented charges against him while in Sweden, tried to get him extradited to Sweden, allowed him to take refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy....why not...because that would be absurd!
Fishier than puffin meat!”

I say:

1) Puffin meat is not fishy. Not fishy at all!

2) Where did I ever mention anything about any ”bizarre plot to get him to Sweden, allow him to leave Sweden, invent charges against him while in Sweden, try to get him extradited to Sweden, allow him to take refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy....etc, etc, etc….......

Walking on the same street and direction with a Brit, a Squatter and a Pirate doesn’t make me a Squattering British Pirate………, if you get what I mean.

Having said the above, I very much ”Think” that the CIA has applied their classical multilevel disinformation and discrediting campaign against Wikileaks and Mr. Assange since long, long ago.
And, as usual, such campaigns work perfectly on “balanced and well educated”…….................... Turnips.

To end, I want to make perfectly clear that I fully support and admire the work that Wikileaks and Mr. Assange have done until today.
And I sincerely hope that they will be able to continue and increase their good work in the future.
We need them.
We really do.
379 Condorito (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
Think
I agree that we need the likes of Wikileaks and a free press.

But as you are able to declare that Puffin meat is not fishy because you have had the opportunity to try it...
...a Swedish court should be able to declare Mr Assange guilty or not by having the opportunity to try him.

We need rule of law.
We really do.
380 Guzz (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 11:14 pm Report abuse
Condorito, we need rule of moral, not rule of law...
381 Condorito (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 11:47 pm Report abuse
It is our duty to elect the executive.
It is the job of our elected executive to put our societies’ values into law.
Swedish law reflects Swedish values.
The Swedish police want to talk to JA about allegations made against him whilst their jurisdiction.
Mr Assange should show respect for British law and Swedish law and hand himself over to the Swedish authorities.

If/when he has been tried in Sweden and IF the US requests his extradition, I will join the campaign to stop his extradition to the US.

The good work done by WL in the name of press freedom doesn’t give JA a get-out-of-jail-free card for alleged offenses in Sweden.

He is showing little regard for “rule of moral” and rule of law.
382 Monty69 (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 12:50 am Report abuse
Are you all sure we really need a 'free press'? Really?
Do you agree with News of the World hacking people's phones and publishing their private life? Do you agree with the restrictions placed on newspapers in reporting details of forthcoming trials? They aren't allowed to do it in the UK. And for good reason.
And if you happened not to agree with those laws, and broke them deliberately, what does that make you?

It is the job of a free press to seek out and expose wrongdoing by legal means. I just had a look at Wikileaks. It isn't journalism; it's anarchy, and it's completely indiscriminate. The medical records of Guantanamo Bay inmates ffs? Why? Do even political prisoners not have the right to their personal information being kept private in Assange world? I doubt he can see anything beyond his massive ego.
383 Condorito (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 01:43 am Report abuse
Monty
Very true, however when most say “free press” one can assume the “in the public interest” caveat. However subjective the definition of public interest maybe, it is better than losing freedom.

We once had a president who said:
“La obligación del periodista revolucionario no es servir a la verdad, sino a la revolución”.
This was the start of a dark period of history for Chile.

It is better to err on the side of excessive freedom, then use civil rights laws to redress, than to stifle free speach and see your liberties dwindle from there.
384 latinsoul (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 02:17 am Report abuse
@377
Don't know what you are talking about ...I despise evil people specially corrupt europeans who instead of eating cake they are eating caca because each dog has his appointed day of reckoning....
On the other hand..don't know what the heck puffins are....too delicate a palate to know about such crap.

By the way, those who are incorrectly called conquistadores?
Intellectual like me call them by their real adjectives...jailbirds, criminals, rapists, thieves, murderers, invaders, etc, etc!
385 Condorito (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 02:05 pm Report abuse
latinsoul
and remember we (not the Europeans) are the descendants of those “jailbirds, criminals, rapists, thieves, murderers, invaders”...and proud of it.
386 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 02:54 pm Report abuse
Condorito
The Europeans are the descendants of... ? Let me guess, Mother Teresa...
387 Condorito (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
Guzz
I doubt it, I think she died a virgin.
And that is not my point. I am just saying to LS, use real adjectives by all means, but use real history too.

We are the descendents of Cortes and Pizarro not them, simple historical fact. Personally I am proud of our history.
388 slabside (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
CFK is a low res fox - that said she has great hair though
Assange is an ego maniac


peace and love and mercy mild


show some tolerance to your fellow man
389 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 03:11 am Report abuse
382 Monty69 (#)
“Are you all sure we really need a 'free press'? Really?”

You sound like your “Supreme authority”, your Queen.

“The Royal Family on Wednesday night moved to block the publication of photographs depicting Prince Harry cavorting naked in a Las Vegas hotel room”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-harry/9493424/Palace-tries-to-ban-naked-photos-of-Prince-Harry.html
390 agent999 (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 05:07 am Report abuse
Marcos

you are pratt.
391 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:14 am Report abuse
Hahahaha Marcos! That is priceless :)))))
392 Frank (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:34 am Report abuse
Guzz... you really are easily amused... as is 'Mike'...
Meanwhile Carr and Bachelet say Assange should 'man up' , go to Sweden , and face the music...
www.watoday.com.au/opinion/political-news/assange-should-go-to-sweden-says-carr-20120823-24o2i.html
393 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:41 am Report abuse
392
I vould not care less about your flashing royalties, what is priceless is your national outcry for freedom of press while your royals try to stop the presses :)
394 Frank (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 10:23 am Report abuse
Not my 'royals' Guzzo old mate.... you must have mistaken me for an englander... so what do you think of Carr and Bachelet's views... do try and stay on topic.... and ignore 'Mike the parrot'....
btw... the Hewitt boy is what he is... the Hewitt boy.....
395 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 10:30 am Report abuse
@392

Come, come, Guzz, what would your Mum have to say if I tried to put a picture of your dick in the papers?
396 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 12:19 pm Report abuse
well Hans
I don't know if this is common behaviour in your latitudes, but you would for sure never posses such picture to put in the papers, that is the difference :)
397 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 12:45 pm Report abuse
@396
That's what you think. I got one from willileaks.
398 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
397
That's very amusing, you are a very, very funny man, and I don't think I can match your wits in this dialogue. Take care
399 Condorito (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
388 slab: How low res are we talking? 10ppi?
397 Hans: excellent!

Bachelet: well done, I might even vote for you, if you stand.
400 LEPRecon (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
@389 - Marcos

Pathetic attempt at deflection. A young man in the nude and has probably had sex. Ooh that's never happened before.

@393 - Guzz

No one is trying to 'stop the presses'. No one gives a sh!t.

Regarding the actual thread. I agree with Senator Carr, Assange should man up and face his accusers.

And as for all of you who have supported Assanges attempt to avoid due process.

“I have seen gross intolerance shown in the support of tolerance.” Samuel Taylor Coleridge.

Or in my words, “I have seen gross human rights abuses shown in the support of human rights.”
401 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:11 pm Report abuse
Marcos
Rumours say final table consisted of men only, so LEP is probably right...
402 LEPRecon (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
@401 - Guzz

Ooh, spreading lies now. That's new, oh wait no you're a liar. But even if what you say were true, no one GIVES a sh!t, and you are making yourself look like a pathetic, impotent, jealous moron who has to lie to make yourself appear important.

It's bad for the soul you know. But then you communists don't believe in the soul, you just believe in oppressing and murdering thousands of innocent people, don't you?
403 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:52 pm Report abuse
Hahahaha
LEP tilted :)
404 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 24th, 2012 - 03:20 am
Comment removed by the editor.
405 LEPRecon (#) Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:06 am Report abuse
@404 - Marcos

Yawn. Boring.

However, regarding what this actual thread is about, I see that 'LATAM' support you and Guzz are always bleating about is conspicuous by its absence.

Even CFK hasn't been screeching on about this subject. Could it be that she doesn't support alleged rapists or countries that shelter them?

Or maybe she's just too distracted to bother with this none issue because the pirates have just struck black gold and she hasn't got the money to sink even one well? Poor CFK, poor Argentina. Rich Falkland Islanders though. LOL

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