Tuesday, August 21st 2012 - 20:40 UTC

Sweden will not extradite Assange if he faces death penalty in the US

The Swedish government will not extradite Julian Assange to the US should he face the death penalty there, as any possible extradition request from Washington is then subject to strict conditions, an official from the country’s Justice Ministry.

Assaange remains at the Ecuadorian embassy surrounded by London police

¬“We will never surrender a person to the death penalty,” the deputy director of the Service for Criminal Cases and International Cooperation of Sweden’s Justice Ministry said in an interview with the Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper on Tuesday.

This means there should be strict guarantees from the US government that “the prisoner will not be executed in any case,” added Cecilia Riddselius. But so far her country has not received any extradition request from Washington.

In June, Cecilia Riddselius admitted there were opportunities for countries to request different types of guarantees in relation to extradition. Sweden may request that an extradited person will not be sentenced to the death penalty, he or she will not be tortured, should not be prosecuted for offences other than those which he or she was delivered for and not to be charged before a special court.

However, Riddselius then stressed, Sweden cannot guarantee in advance that Assange will not be extradited.

The WikiLeaks founder is wanted in Sweden for questioning over sexual misconduct. He and his supporters, however, fear that if extradited to Sweden, he may be further extradited to the United States, where he could then face the death penalty for espionage following the publication of thousands of classified documents, including secret cables of the US State Department.

Last week, the Ecuadorian government announced it has granted the world-famous whistleblower political asylum. The decision came almost two months after Assange took refuge in the country’s London embassy seeking protection from extradition to Sweden.

The decision has already become the epicenter of a diplomatic row between Ecuador and Great Britain, with London threatening to storm the embassy. Ecuador has already taken the issue to the Union of South American Nations (UNASUR), which unanimously backed the country’s right to grant Assange asylum and condemned British threats to raid a sovereign state’s embassy in order to arrest him.

On Friday the issue will also be addressed at the Organization of American States, OAS, during an extraordinary meeting of Foreign ministers. The agenda for the day refers to the “inviolability” of diplomatic and consular premises but could lead to a heated debate between the US and some Latam countries that are demanding an explicit condemnation of the UK for its threats to storm the embassy in London.

Ecuador also promised to appeal to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) if the UK refuses to grant Julian Assange safe passage out of the country. According to WikiLeaks, all of this could be avoided if they managed to obtain a guarantee of no re-extradition from Sweden.

A spokesperson for WikiLeaks stressed that Assange would “gladly go to Sweden for questioning if they were able to guarantee that [he] wouldn’t be extradited to the United States”.

While deciding on Assange’s political asylum Ecuador also offered Sweden the chance to question him at the embassy, but Stockholm brushed away the possibility.
 

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1 reality check (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
The Swedish are only stating what everyone, even Assange, knew in the first place.

Assange went over there to see if he could obtain a work and residents permit, why? to take advantage of their laws that protect whistle blowers. He went there because he knew they would not hand him to the yanks if he continued to run Wikileaks from there!In all probabilty they would have he would have got them, if he had not screwed up, no pun intended.
Now he has audacity to play the extradition card to avoid rape allegations.
2 PirateLove (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
this will not change a damn thing, assmange you are stil a suspected rapist, and you will be tried as such sooner or later, his choice....for now, man up and face the music sex offender, think of your victims!
3 Guzz (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:15 pm Report abuse
There you go, Sweden showing her true face, this would mean Sweden will extradite Assange for sure. Life for espionage?
4 Trunce (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:21 pm Report abuse
Duh!
There is a EU – US Agreement that extradition to US will not be subject to death penalty.
“Extradition to the US will henceforth only be possible under the condition that the death penalty will not be imposed or, if for procedural reasons such condition cannot be complied with, that the death penalty will not be carried out.”
www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_Data/docs/pressdata/en/jha/110727.pdf

When Assange is extradited to Sweden, and should they receive an extradition request from US. It will be considered on the basis of evidence submitted and decided upon accordingly.
5 Xect (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:29 pm Report abuse
Seems Sweden just blew out of the water all of those conspiracy theorists from SA saying he'd get the death penalty.

Now what Assange because you are truly out of options, time to face the charges you scumbag who seems to live only to generate media circus's.
6 LEPRecon (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 09:42 pm Report abuse
@3 -Guzz

Sweden is just stating European law. No ONE can be extradited from the EU to face the death penalty.

Being Swedish you should know this right?

You see Guzz, Assange has backed himself into a corner with these wild claims that he can't prove. He has claimed that if he's extradited to Sweden the US will extradite him. Well he will be extradited to Sweden sooner or later, as the Ecuadorians get fed up of him, and he'll have to face the Swedish police and answer the serious allegations made against him.

If the US don't make any attempts to extradite him his credibility is undermined and it exposes him as a liar. So you see, it's not in US interest to extradite him at all. Assange will discredit himself and wikileaks, and the US don't have to lift a finger, because Assange will have has been hoist with his own petard (being a marine engineer you understand that saying right?).

The US couldn't have 'plotted' a better outcome if they'd tried.

I have a new conspiracy theory for you Guzz. I can't prove it, but you like a good tale, don't you?

Assange is actually in the pay of the US government. His job is it undermine the credibility of wikileaks, whilst at the same time taking down the government of Ecuador. If he's successful there he'll move on to Venezula and then the rest of South America.

He has (allegedly) been paid a 6 figure sum to do this and been granted immunity from prosecution.

See anyone can concoct conspiracy theories! It's easy. :0)
7 briton (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:17 pm Report abuse
Oh dear,
Another threat,
The Ecuadorians are going to go mad over this.lol.

misinterpretation again lol..
8 aussie sunshine (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:55 pm Report abuse
If Oswald and the Kennedys were put away in the 60s what will they do to this chap??!!
9 briton (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:57 pm Report abuse
promote him perhaps lol.
10 Guzz (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 10:58 pm Report abuse
Briton
A wouldn't with an if is as good as a would with an if not...
11 briton (#) Aug 21st, 2012 - 11:14 pm Report abuse
but only if [if] works,
if not, one must try something else ..
12 Frank (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 02:26 am Report abuse
@8 What happened in the 60's???
13 Marcos Alejandro (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 04:10 am Report abuse
“We will never surrender a person to the death penalty,”
Otherwise no problem.
I told you that's why is all about, they are cleaning a cell in Guantanamo just for the WikiLeaks founder.
14 Fido Dido (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 04:17 am Report abuse
Assange won't get the death penalty, he will be tortured in guantanamo..duhhh. Remeber all you idiots who live in the US (Include UK, another police state)...torture is NOW legal in the name of security. And for some idiots here who are in the US..O'bummer (include mittens romney) signed the NDAA law. Look it up what it means....include for for US citizens and foreigners temporary and permanent residence and foreign enemies have NO right to a lawyer. Welcome to hell!

I'm amazed that there are still morons here who watch faux, cnn, bbc with all their fake news (same channels that support the damn Rebels..aka freedom fighers/al qaeda)
15 Rollo1066 (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 05:02 am Report abuse
I'm an American and I think that Assange should be subject to Swedish law because he is alleged to have committed a crime while in Sweden. It doesn't matter if what he is alleged to have done would be a crime in other nations or not. If I go to Canada or Mexico and do something which is illegal there, it isn't a defense that it wouldn't be a crime in the USA.

However I do not think he should be prosecuted by the USA because as a foreigner who took actions outside the USA he should not be subject to USA law or required to obey it. My country was very wrong to try Manuel Noriega under our criminal laws since he was not duty bound to obey them. I understand he is now in prison in Panama for crimes he committed while in power there. I have no problem with that.

Since Assange wasn't and isn't under any duty to obey my country's laws any extradition request by the USA should be denied.
16 Iron Man (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:36 am Report abuse
@15 - that doesn't stand up as a generic argument. If someone outside the US hacks into a US bank and steals its money, isn't that a crime that you would be expected to be extradited for and stand trial in the US? Or if someone overseas orders the killing of a person in the US, again should they be allowed to evade justice?
17 cLOHO (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:10 am Report abuse
14 - UK a police state lol...they couldnt organise a @iss up in a brewery look at the Riots we had last year, our Police are to scared to do anything, similar to the RG Armed Forces during the Falklands War.

Apparently Kretina is giving our Police tips on how to become a proper Police State
1. Control the Press
2. Arrest journalists that write truthful articles on her and the state of economy.
They are also arranging to teach the 'Nun Push 'apparently a method of disposal of problem makers from a great height. With all this advice and secrets of how to murder 30000 plus men women and children the Argies will help to make UK a proper Police State. Good old RGs i thought you must be good at something and torture , lies , and murder are your area of expertise.
18 reality check (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:25 am Report abuse
You know what the first form is a solicitor fills out when dealing with a detained client. A legal Aid Application. Police state don't make me laugh, this lot would not know what justice was even if she took off her blindfold and bit them on the ass!!!!
19 RICO (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 08:19 am Report abuse
JA should not be extradited to the USA, at least not until he has raped a US citizen.
20 Iron Man (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 11:51 am Report abuse
@19 is that the only extraditable crime now then?
21 JohnN (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
Canada makes that statement every time it gets request to extradite to US the accused murderers who would be subject to capital punishment in some US states. One would think that Julian Assange's crimes against US wouldn't warrant a capital offence charge, but as I recall, some human rights groups have expressed concern that Wikileaks has outed human rights defenders in some countries leaving them prey to prosecution and risk of bodily harm, including death.
22 Captain Poppy (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 01:40 pm Report abuse
#15 so if someone mailed you anthrax from out of the country and you died........the USA has no legal recourse against the sender, or #16's example?
23 RICO (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 03:57 pm Report abuse
@20 no just the first crime he is likely to commit when he arrives in the states.
24 Brasileiro (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
The personal individualite translate to geopolitic. South América against EU and USA......yes, we are, and we like this. “Sigamos nuestro propio camiño”. We dont need anyone in this planet. No more exploration from colonialists....laissez fair like we know to do!
25 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 05:30 pm Report abuse
Salud hermano! Nunca mas!! :)
26 Conqueror (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:19 pm Report abuse
@8 Who cares?
@13 He could always swim for it!
@14 Haven't got around to tossing people out of aircraft or helicopters whilst flying over a river yet though, have they? I do hope they are going to televise what they do to him if they get him to the States.
@24 Tell me. Is it alleged that Assange persuaded Bradley Manning to steal classified documents? So who decided to get involved in geopolitics? And at what point did it become the concern of you clowns in LatAm? For a bunch of loser countries with such short histories, you are hardly in a position to point a finger. You appear to have packed a considerable amount of genocide, belligerency, invasion, war, murder, torture, terrorism, corruption, mendacity, theft or at least attempts in your short existences.
27 Clyde15 (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:40 pm Report abuse
#24
I presume from this that you are an indigenous Amazonian Indian from one of the larger tribes such as the Guarani or Yanamami by your plea for no more colonialists.
If you are not an Indian, how did you or your ancestors get there ?
Five hundred years ago, there were an estimated 5/13 million indigenous Indians in the Amazon region. The figure now is 650,000.
They were systematically exterminated by the immigrant settlers.

Their land is still being stolen because Brasil does not recognise their land rights. Under law they are considered as minors.
Laissez faire from the rest of the world to get on with the job “like we know to do” That's a really proud record.
I am not saying that the UK, USA and other European powers have not a shameful colonial past but to pretend that S.A is holier than thou is an absolute travesty of the truth.
28 aussie sunshine (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:41 pm Report abuse
Nice to see prince Harry holding his nuts in las vegas !! What will HM think of all this??
29 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
Clyde
Together with the Spaniards and the rest of the Europeans, you lot are responsible for the death of 30 million indigenus in whole America...
30 Sir Rodderick Bodkin (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:58 pm Report abuse
Stay Strong Julian. Stay Classy.
31 Brasileiro (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
@ 24...your vision is eurocentric......hahahahaha
europeans beens in América.......hahahahaha
take one ship, one 14bis, one submarine or one pirate navy and go to europe!
32 reality check (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:31 pm Report abuse
'29
Bloody hell, not that old chesnut again!!!!!!
33 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
Oh, I thought we were talking about crimes commited before our grandparents were born...

Hey Clyde, talk about something else, reality suffers from compulsive reading and your subject bores him...
34 briton (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:37 pm Report abuse
Why is it always the fault of others,

Denial is bad for the soul,
no heaven for you .lol.
35 reality check (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
There you go again, assumptions, assumptions.

An assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts.

How do you know what bores me? same way you know Assange is being fitted up, I suppose?
36 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
Well, Clyde wanted to talk about 200-500 year old crimes, I responded, and you went “not that chesnut again”

So,
1. You must suffer from compulsive reading, as nobody forces you to read any posts (another assumption for you)
2. The subject bores you, or so your statement indicates (my assumption)
37 reality check (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
Not the subject, the response, “that old chesnut.” Did we not post on the very same subject or one similiar. Think my arguement was something about visiting the sins upon the sons.
38 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
Don't be silly, you are not a good man because your father was, are you?
If you want to talk crimes of past generations, lets do just that :)
39 reality check (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
The operative word was “sins” upon the sons. Early night, busy day in work tomorow, ready for bank holiday.

G'nite.
40 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
Just as you can't prey on good deeds of the past, you are not responsible of the bad ones. It must be hard for you to think otherwise, and if so, what a burden you must bear... May you rest well
41 St.John (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 10:06 pm Report abuse
Guzz, I think you should read the following and perhaps translate. I haven't got the time for it.

Fallet Assange: Uppgifter raderas om och om igen: samtycke.nu/2010/09/30/fallet-assange-uppgifter-raderas-om-och-om-igen/
The Assange case: Information is deleted/changed over and over again.

Hämnerskan från Gotland: samtycke.nu/2010/09/15/hamnerskn-fran-gotland/
The revenger(ess) from Gotland.

Sjustegsmodell för laglig hämnd: www.samtycke.nu/doc/7-stepsrevenge.htma
Seven steps model for legal revenge.
42 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
One of the women that accuses Assange is a politician and therefor publicly exposed. Her problem is some twitter comments she made the day after Assange supposedly raped her. Some hours after the supposed rape she wrote about how cool it was to sit to 2 in the morning woth the smartest people on the planet.
The comments were later removed from her twitter account.
43 British_Kirchnerist (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
This restaytement of the previous Sweedish position changes nothing, Assange is not prepared to be tortured in Gitmo or put in solitary for a 100 year sentance even if he's not actually executed. And why should he be?! Sweeden should just say they won't extradite him to the USA at all and problem solved
44 Guzz (#) Aug 22nd, 2012 - 11:45 pm Report abuse
The last two links are about her different statements as a feminist on different medias, the ones focused on are those were she speaks on how to most effectively take revenge on men
45 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:58 am Report abuse
@43

No serious country with a credible legal system can provide any such blanket assurance against an extradition request which hasn't even been issued. You'd have to find a banana republic for that.

However, Sweden's extradition agreements with the US do not allow extradition for military or political offences. The European Convention on Human Rights also prohibits extradition where there is a risk of the death penalty, torture, or inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

klamberg.blogspot.se/2012/08/extradition-of-assange-to-us-via-sweden.html

@44

What we really need to do here, instead of trying the (alleged) perpetrator in a court, is to try the (alleged) victims on the Internet. Surely a bunch of bloggers, tweeters, and posters on bulletin boards are best qualified to get to the truth?

Or didn't we give up crowd-sourced justice back in the Middle Ages?
46 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:02 am Report abuse
45
Well, twitter posts by the “victim”, posted the day after the supposed crime, where she praises his company... That shouldn't be taken into question? Why did she remove those comments if she felt she wasn't in the wrong? No woman praises a man who rapes her 10 hours after he does so, nor ever.
47 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:04 am Report abuse
@46

Of course it should be taken into question. By a court.
48 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:17 am Report abuse
47
Then you mean it's ok for the media to expose Assange's case on front page, while the court discusses the less pleasant stuff? May I remind you that this woman is a politician, and as such, she is a public persona.
49 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:37 am Report abuse
@46
No it isn't.

The rape case should be tried in a Swedish court and nowhere else. But it is Assange supporters who are systematically trying to prevent this by trying in public the (alleged) victims, as part of a strategy to avoid extradition. This is classic smear politics, as well as a tactic typically deployed by rapists attempting to defend themselves. It sucks.

Moreover, in this case the (alleged) perpetrator has the opportunity to clear his name, quite simply by accepting the principle of equality before the law. The (alleged) victims are being denied any such opportunity by the champion of free speech and transparency.

Whether one of the women is a politician, a beautician, a mathematician, or a taxidermist is irrelevant to the question of whether the extradition should take place.
50 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:46 am Report abuse
Why don't you ever have a go at all those mates of you screaming “rapist”?
If your principles stands for what you say, and you seem to be a man that finds his arguments for what he believes in, you must agree that calling Assange a rapist is public defamation of character.
Or is that ok? Maybe that doesn't bother you enough to trigger those very same feelings you seem to have for the prosecution. Is that an ideologic different set of values that comes into play in your mind?
51 Clyde15 (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 09:55 am Report abuse
#29
Yes. and, if you are not an Amerindian then your present lot are just as responsible. Did you read my last paragraph or are you selectively blind.
Colonialism is still being carried on in Brasil by the taking of Indian lands and denial of their rights.
I was trying to reply to Brsiliero's garbled message which I interpreted to say -no more col0nialism from Europe. Agreed ,but where is the current colonialism from Europe ? By your standards , all the faults in the world come from USA/Europe. S.A. hates colonialism although you are all the by- product of the same. You kicked out your colonial predecessors about 150 years ago and then you carried on in your own merry way to seize the land of the indigenous population - of course this was not the evil colonialism of the dastardly Europeans but the making of a free continent of equals ,free of corruption. Pull the other leg, it's got bells on it !!

#31
You will have to get a better translator as what you have posted is meaningless.

Anyway, what has this got to do with Assange ?
52 Guzz (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 10:00 am Report abuse
51
There is no current colonialism in SA, but the Brits on the Malvinas/Falklands. Mayhap the French Guyana could qualify, but at least the French don't militarize the zone, to my knowledge.
Unequality is very much present, and our fight against the oligarchy seems to be never-ending. If you want them to be adressed as your spawn, fine by me. The rest of us don't have anything to do with you but a shared past some 500 years ago.
53 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 10:16 am Report abuse
@50
I would agree that it's wrong at this point to be calling Assange a rapist.

But I haven't actually heard anybody screaming that at him, just an increasing number of people suggesting he's trying to dodge a rape charge by hiding behind a wikileaks smokescreen. (In the UK, incidentally, the left has been bitterly divided on this point, though it appears to me that as the legal picture becomes clearer only a dwindling number of radicals are left holding out for the conspiracy theory.)

And as for me, I don't have a particularly ideological view of it, I am not opposed to wikileaks, I just don't like being fed bullshit. And in this respect, I think the conspiracy theory put forward by Assange supporters is the biggest piece of bullshit I have been invited to swallow since the Bush/Blair case for invading Iraq, or possibly the Malvinista case for the Falklands. :-)
54 Clyde15 (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 11:12 am Report abuse
#52
I thought that the French Foreign Legion had a training camp there.
If they are not military -what is !
Also a space port for the launching and testing of rocket launchers. Could there also be a military aspect of this ?
This is where we disagree - the Falklands are no more a colony from the UK than Argentina was from Spain.
If I understand your logic then the original settlers from Europe were colonialists - agreed. Then these colonists decided to break away from the “mother ”country so they declare independence. Overnight, although they took over a country populated from indigenous peoples, they are no longer colonists. Then waves of Europeans are invited to settle but they are no longer colonists although they have no more right to the land than the original European settlers.
Your shared past is a lot more recent than 500 years. The bulk if immigration took place from the mid 1800's and for the next 100 years.
There are still Argentinians one or two generations from Europe.
I think we are using different definitions of colonists.
55 briton (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 12:10 pm Report abuse
guzz
its not your problem, so relax,

the falklands are british, and are protected by them,

you worry to much, its not reality .
56 St.John (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
HansNiesund

AFAIK you read swedish, and before you form your opinion I think you should read the following:

Interrogation protocol (100 pages) 23 November 2010:
www.scribd.com/doc/48110314/Facsimile-from-Forsvarsadvokaterna-23-11-10Sokbar

The alleged rape of Anna Ardin took place on the night between 14 and 15 August 2010, but she let Assange stay in her apartment until 20 August (p. 17).

Anna Ardin admits she had voluntary sex with Assange, but she wouldn't have let it happen if she had known he wasn't using a condom [her allegement](p. 16). [at the interrogation *in Sweden* 30 August 2010 Assange claims that he did use a condom p. 90f.].

The day after the alleged rape, one of the alleged victims (Anna Ardin) wrote:
www.samtycke.nu/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/20101004_anna_kom1.png

More than 24 hours after the alleged rape, Anna Ardin wrote:
www.samtycke.nu/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/20101004_anna_kom2.png

“I samband med att Anna Ardin polisanmäler Julian Assange den 20 augusti raderas dessa kommentarer på Anna Ardins Twitter.”
She deleted these comments several days later, when she accused Assange for rape.

The other alleged rape is found on pages 10-14 in the interrogation protocol.

Sofia Wilén had voluntary sex with Assange two or three times and *immediately* after that, he allegedly raped her (p. 13). After the alleged rape they had breakfast and a long conversation, and then she took him on her bicycle to the train station where she paid for his ticket to Stockholm.

Of course this should be tried in a court, but following a Swedish international arrest order based on the interrogation protocol, we shall expect to see Sweden issue international arrest orders for misdemeanors.
57 HansNiesund (#) Aug 23rd, 2012 - 11:51 pm Report abuse
@56

I am aware of the police report and the objections to the Wilen and Ardin version of events, since these have been widely disseminated by the Assange camp. I've read the revelations that Ardin is a CIA agent, anti Castro, a radical feminist, and a Christian Social Democrat. I've learned that Wilen sat in the front row at an Assange event wearing a conspicuous pink jumper. I don't presume to know what went on in their minds, but I do know they have been denied their day in court.

But never mind, let's assume that all this is true. In which case it seems to me highly unlikely there is any truth in the thesis of a UK/US/SE plot to extradite JA through Sweden:

- you would think a decent plot would have come up with something a bit stronger: a corpse in the bathroom, perhaps, or maybe some coke in a bag at the airport, or some paedophile images on the laptop. Instead we have an allegation with a low conviction rate, notoriously difficult to prove, for an offence relatively low on the Swedish rape scale, and a couple of stooges who have through twitter left themselves wide open to defence attack. If the CIA is behind this, it can't have been their top guns, it must have been an intern or something.

- And what is more, they have got some right clodhoppers on the Swedish end, if they allowed the target to leave the country after the first interview, and then assiduously noted all the objections against their own two stooges before sending them on to the defence.

- and the then there's the Brits, who let the guy out on bail, goddammit, and let the case drag all the way to the Supreme Court through 18 months of appeal

What kind of crap conspiracy is this?

But that's not even the point. The point is that it is legal and logical nonsense that the case needs to be proved before extradition is granted. It is clear after appeal there is probable cause for the Swedes to go to the 2nd interrogation required by their system, and that is the only honourable course.
58 St.John (#) Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:26 am Report abuse
HansNiesund

never mind the conspiracy theories, Anna Ardin admits she had voluntary sex with Assange and Assange stayed in her apartment 6 days after the alleged rape. Sofia Wilén admits she had voluntary sex with Assange two or three times and *immediately* after that, he allegedly raped her, following which (according to her own testimony) she drove him to the station and paid his ticket - what kind of crap is that?

Read the interrogation protocol carefully and develop competing theories:

1. Assange raped the two women, but they didn't know it until later.

2. The two women want revenge because neither of them were to be his favourite.

3. ???

Which of the thories is the more probable?
59 HansNiesund (#) Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:51 am Report abuse
These are questions for the court. The point at issue is whether JA should be made to face the court or not. The Assange campaign maintains he shouldn't and to support this is running a campaign which consists of a) an utterly implausible conspiracy theory b) systematic misrepresentation of the Swedish legal system and the legal position re extradition c) demonization of the (alleged) victims and d) ad hominen attacks against those in the press and the legal world who contest any of a, b, or c. I smell a rat.

As for the rights and wrongs of the accusations themselves, there are clearly questions to be answered by the two women. And I am no expert in either the law or rape cases, nor do I have any idea of what goes in a woman's idea in the immediate aftermath of a sexual assaut (to use a less dramatic term). I just think that should be left up to the court system which has been set up to decide these things, and there is no credible case I have yet heard for doing otherwise.

Finally, my own theory is that JA would probably be found guilty of some form of sexual assault, but one which would attract a relatively lenient sentence. He is right to fear the US, but he is at lesser risk in Sweden than in the UK, and the longer he ducks due process, the more he discredits himself.
60 St.John (#) Aug 24th, 2012 - 07:06 pm Report abuse
Of course Assange should face court.

In my view he has over time become more or less paranoid about an extradition and it would have served him better to face trial in 2010. The Swedish legal system can be trusted, problem is, that the political cannot. Many Norwegians and Danes I know have the view that Asia is immediately east of their border, same as before 1990 West Germans living near the border to DDR used to point east and say “dort ist Asien”.
61 reality check (#) Aug 25th, 2012 - 06:29 am Report abuse
If anyone questions the Scandanavian court system, they took a good hard look at how Norway treated that mass murderer Breyvik. Sentenced to 21 years for 76 murders, okay they have a proviso in their law that says he may not be released if he proves to still be a danger to the public, which means he will probably never be released and rightly so.
62 HansNiesund (#) Aug 25th, 2012 - 08:54 am Report abuse
@62

I think you're right, he should have biten the bullet in 2010. I also have the impression the tide is turning against him, but then some people do prefer martyrdom.
63 British_Kirchnerist (#) Aug 26th, 2012 - 02:01 am Report abuse
#62 Who, Assange or Breivik? Though they are opposites in what they stand for and in their methods you speak so cryptically you could mean either!
64 HansNiesund (#) Aug 26th, 2012 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
I guess you're right. A person might indeed get confused if they had difficulty following the thread of discussion, or were being deliberately obtuse.

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