Wednesday, October 17th 2012 - 05:03 UTC

UK tells Spain border checks and delays in Gibraltar border are ‘unacceptable’

Britain this week raised the issue of disproportionate Gibraltar border checks and delays “at the highest level” with the Spanish Government. The issue was revealed in Parliament by Europe Minister David Lidington who was responding to a question in an emergency debate instigated by the all party Gibraltar group.

Europe minister Lidington told Parliament that the issue was addressed at the “highest level”

Mr. Lidington made clear it had not been raised with the Spanish Ambassador because it had been raised at a higher level directly with the Spanish Government although officials later declined to say exactly who this referred to. It was raised outside of the EU foreign ministers’ meeting, it was confirmed.

In Parliament Mr Lidington noted that this last weekend significant delays had occurred at the Gibraltar border of 45 minutes to six hours as a result of the more rigorous checks by the Guardia Civil on cars leaving the Rock. But he also noted the reduced delays on Monday.

“Spain has justified the more rigorous checks as being anti-tobacco smuggling operations between Gibraltar and Spain. Tobacco smuggling does occur between Gibraltar and Spain. However the Spanish authorities have not provided the Gibraltar authorities with evidence that in this case increased checks were required.”

Mr Lidington noted that the delays come at a time of increased tension resulting from the fishing dispute over Spanish fishing rights in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.

The Europe Minister reported that the view in Gibraltar is that the delays are intended to increase pressure on Gibraltar to resolve the fishing dispute. He also noted that both Chief Minister Fabian Picardo and the ASCTEG, the Spanish workers association, had criticised the delays.

Disruption and border queues, he said, have an effect on the wellbeing and prosperity of communities on both sides of the border especially the several thousand Spanish workers.

“The (UK) government position is that these delays are unacceptable and have no place at a border between EU partners,” he said adding that the issue had been raised over the weekend at a very high level with the Spanish Government. It will also be protested formally to the local Guardia Civil, he added.

Mr Lidington said the UK would continue to monitor the situation closely and “take whatever appropriate action is necessary to support the free movement of people between Gibraltar and Spain”.

On maritime incursions Mr Lidington said that that Britain is “absolutely confident” in its sovereignty over Gibraltar British Territorial waters.

“That is why the Royal Navy challenges Guardia Civil and other Spanish vessels whenever they make unlawful maritime incursions,” he said adding that this is backed up with diplomatic protests to the Spanish Government about all unlawful incursions.

“Those challenges and protests make clear that such incursions are an unacceptable violation of British sovereignty,” said Mr Lidington.

32 comments Feed

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1 LightThink (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:36 am Report abuse
UK's hands are not in strong for Spain
all UK banks' exposures are ~ $ 130 billions in Spain.
2 DanyBerger (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:06 am Report abuse
Spain takes over Gibraltar while Argentina takes over F@cklands and Hugo takes Ascension Islands.

And KaMoron crying...
3 eusebio (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:24 am
Comment removed by the editor.
4 Rufus (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:38 am Report abuse
@2 Hugo? Ascension? Bwahahahahahahahaha
The Bolivarian Armada of Venezuela only has six ships (three of which have been mothballed) that actually have any ASW capability at all. They're all 30+ years old with frankly questionable service/upgrade/maintenance histories.

Their active submarine (singular) is even older, and has just spent the last five years drydocked being made seaworthy again.

I think the Royal Navy Submarine Service would view it as less of a challenge and more of a live firing exercise, so little the threat would be against them.

Plus, Ascension also has both US and EU personnel stationed there. Neither of whom have any great love for Mr Potato Head.
5 Idlehands (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 11:26 am Report abuse
Spanish behaviour at the border is moronic. They've varied the amount of hassle they cause for many years but don't seem to have noticed that it bears no correlation to progress towards their aims. It is a futile pointless effort that just makes them look silly.
6 Ken Ridge (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 11:37 am Report abuse
More foolish Latino thinking, why cause problems for thousands of your own people to commute to their daily work, moreso when the country is in such a financial mess.

@2 cheesy burger.
You're a prat
7 Conqueror (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 11:59 am Report abuse
@2 Do you know how many times Spain has tried to steal Gibraltar? Fourteen. And how many times has some cowardly, underhand, Spanish rebel colony has tried to steal the Falklands? Three. And there is only ONE Ascension Island. So there seems little chance of a Venezuelan navy ship finding the right place.
8 gustbury (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:17 pm Report abuse
unacceptable is that brits even still there!! pirates
9 briton (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:26 pm Report abuse
8 grow up will you.

your anti is showing your envy and being jealous just shows how sad you guys really are.
10 Yuleno (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:31 pm Report abuse
Spain to complain at border controls in USA and in EU member UK.
Or is their behaviour acceptable.
11 Idlehands (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
10 Yuleno - that makes no sense in English.
12 gustbury (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:49 pm Report abuse
9 británico ( # )Jealousy?...hahahaha I've 40 y.old and I'm immensely happy!I have a beautiful family, house, one Renault,one KTM and all mine, of my work ,wath about you?
13 briton (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 01:32 pm Report abuse
and your point is what exactly
14 Idlehands (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 03:15 pm Report abuse
You know somebody has lost the plot when they brag about owning a Renault. It's a different world down there.
15 Conor J (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
God you really are stupid aren't you Danny? Read Mr Rufus's comment he summed it up perfectly
16 Yuleno (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
14# funny what you understand.Or convience I think.
Border controls
Long and difficult
Make your own sentence using all those words.
Too difficult?
17 Idlehands (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
Is it me or are the foreign language posters getting less and less intelligible?

No idea what Yaleno’s reference to my post 14 is all about?
18 Clyde15 (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 04:39 pm Report abuse
As you are so happy, you must be content with the fact that the Falklands do not belong to Argentina.
Your domestic circumstances seem pretty average from an UK point of view.
19 DanyBerger (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 07:24 pm Report abuse

Te difference is that “gustbury” have already paid for it and have no debt as the average Briton has in UK.

having a house and owing 80% of it value to a bank is not the average situation for Argentines.

So in reality Britons don't own anything because almost are all in debt.
20 Yuleno (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:02 pm Report abuse
It's you idlehands
21 malen (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
what a problemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
unacceptable oh
22 briton (#) Oct 17th, 2012 - 11:32 pm Report abuse
we dont all own houses ya know.
23 Clyde15 (#) Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:22 am Report abuse
Your usual ballocks again. Some people don't, but will own something when their debt is cleared. A very large percentage of house buyers HAVE paid off their loans and now own their property.
In order to buy a house, you borrow from a building society.
The usual term for repayment is 25 years. During that time you repay the amount you borrowed with interest.
I realise that to an Argentinian, repaying a loan is a concept difficult to grasp.
When the mortgage is repaid, you own the house. That is the situation for the bulk of the house buyers in the UK.
I have owned my house now for 26 years. Its value has increased 40 fold since I first signed the mortgage papers. I had to repay 3 times the original purchase price during the life of the mortgage but I have come out streets ahead on the deal.
I have no idea of the housing market in Argentina, I presume that there are a lot of people paying rent, so they don't own anything either.
Economies could not function if people did not borrow and REPAY.
Almost no one could save up to buy a car for cash and certainly not a house.
Where would a builder get the money to build houses for rent ?
Probably from a bank. He must then charge enough in rent to pay back his borrowing costs and make a profit.
The person renting the house must pay rent for as long as he stays there. When he leaves he must pay rent again and so on.
In the long run you are better off buying as you end up with an asset.
What you seem to advocate is a cash economy.
I have no idea of ”gustbury's financial position and how he bought a house etc. but I am sure he is not the typical Argentinian.
You could find the same situation in the UK, USA, and any modern industrialised nation.
24 briton (#) Oct 18th, 2012 - 10:24 am Report abuse

some even think we ride arround on bicycles,
berets on head and onions arround our necks,
silly argies.
25 DanyBerger (#) Oct 18th, 2012 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
Thanks for t explanation but I know very well what is a building society (like was Abbey National before become a bank).
But as you well said Britons buy a house base on mortgage so until the mortgage is not paid in full the owner is the bank who can foreclosure or perform Repossession of the property if the debtor incurs in default.
I hope you are not one of those that believe in the UK’s myth that if you return back the key of the property interest and cost will magically stop. Are you? ha ha
Argentina is a cash economy due to several banking crisis (the likes you start to have know in UK) so properties mostly are bought in cash. Have you read the articles here in MP about “dollar clamp” how have affected the property sale in some areas of BUE city?
So with few exceptions (because also in Argentina the are some mortgage plans) Arg. property owners are real owners who have accessed to a property by saving first to buy later.

About your believe that in Argentina everybody is renting.
You are wrong...

Argentina has one of the higher index in the world of homeownership which now would be close to 80%
In 2002 in the worst of the financial crisis and default still retained a 74.9% rate. data for Brazil and Argentina

Here data
97% Bulgaria (2011)
91.9% Hungary (2001)
88.6 Singapore (2011)
83% Ireland (2002)
78% Italy (2011)
78% Spain (2001)
77% Norway(2002)
74.9% Argentina (2002 default and crisis)------Here Argies
74.4% Brazil (2005)
72% Belgium
71% Israel (2002)
69.7% Australia (2011)
69.2% Canada (2011)
69% United Kingdom (2011)----------------------Here you are mate
67% USA (2009)
67% Finland (2001)
65% New Zealand (2004)
26 Clyde15 (#) Oct 18th, 2012 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
No, I fully understand how the banking and mortgage system work !
I don't know where you think that the people in the UK don't understand the seriousness of defaulting on a loan repayment.
You will get your ship repossessed in lieu.

It begs the question, where do the young people live before they have saved enough to buy a house ?
Do they stay with their parents, or are the houses so cheap that it costs next to nothing to buy them. Do their parents subsidise them and give them a start with some funds or do people just squirrel away their savings from the tax man ?
Or are salaries and wages so huge that it's no problem.
In the UK an average house would sell for about £180,000. - $270,000US
To the average buyer, saving for this and paying cash is an impossibility. For London, you could start at £250,000
What is your secret ?
27 DanyBerger (#) Oct 19th, 2012 - 07:27 pm Report abuse

I don’t know what is the secret I’m just showing you that in Argentina there are more homeowners than in UK may be because Argentina is far more middle class than UK.

I have not idea of what is the secret of the Bulgarian either...

But what I know for sure is that in UK salaries are very low compared with cost of living in Britain and that Britons only can afford to buy imported things because of favourable exchange rate but when comes to something made at home all become so expensive. Like homes, etc.

Another thing is that you have been indoctrinated to believe that a normal thing is to live on debt but tell me if that is the rule in UK who is lending you the money?

Ah! yes the ones that keep telling you to expend, expend and expend so while you buy 1 house paying during 25 years they got 2 by lending you.

Well I guess it is a matter of philosophy of living someone prefer to save for 10 years and buy a house an others prefer to live 25 years on debt to archive the same goal.

What remind me an all publicity made by the Spanish in Spain saying..

Why Germans are so rich in their mature and middle age and Spanish are so poor?
“Because while Spanish are living “la vida Loca” and expending all what they got like crazies, Germans work hard and save.”
28 Clyde15 (#) Oct 19th, 2012 - 11:01 pm Report abuse
In the 10 years or so they are saving for a house, where are they living. In a cardboard box ?
Houses are so expensive in the UK because of the price of land and the scarcity of houses in areas where people work. This is a very small island with a high density population. Land is at a premium.
The price is dictated by supply and demand. If my house was down in the South of England, it would probably be worth 3 times its value here.
It is not a matter of philosophy, except for a fortunate few, no one with an average job, could save up to buy a house.
Taking out a mortgage is a sensible act IF you do not over extend your commitment. Many people rashly bought a house as an “investment” expecting prices to rise forever forgetting that a house is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. The cardinal rule is do not over commit yourself financially.
The 25 years of debt was quite manageable. With inflation, the monthly payments became a small part of my income and left me with something greatly more valuable than anything I could have gained by saving over the 25 years - I would have been taxed on the interest I received on my savings.

As to your question as to who is lending you the money, the answer is the people who save their money in a Building Society
The savers get a return on their savings by the interest the Building Socy. charge to the borrowers.
It is a lot more complicated than that, but it works quite well for the majority of house buyers.
29 DanyBerger (#) Oct 20th, 2012 - 01:11 am Report abuse

People rent until they have enough money to buy their first home, most use to save in US dollars and keep in saving accounts receiving interest or in security box in banks.

Others choose to enter in a building fund and turn into investor of a building project where participants of the found finance the “developer company” through pre- arranged payments to build a condominium.

Like this for example

Others buy the land and hire an architect and the money they can save at month is used to build their home.

Others will get the house from they wealthy parents.
So as you can see there are many options.

The problem in UK like in Italy is the urbanised system. While Buenos Aires build to the sky UK and Italy (for example) still building 2/3/5 floor buildings. That could be as result of the administration of the land.

Tell me what you bough a Leasehold or freehold?

For outsiders your buying system of the land buying (like your democracy) is a complete mess.

Once I went to see properties in London and I discovered that the houses where selling for a certain period of time?????

So after many years the land returned to the original landlord and all over it. I was shocked because even in communist Russia thought to do that.

What do you own to start with? the land is yours for perpetuity or will return to the original landlord?
30 Clyde15 (#) Oct 20th, 2012 - 08:53 am Report abuse
Not in Scotland. You own the land your house is built on.
Scottish Law is different from English Law.
31 DanyBerger (#) Oct 20th, 2012 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
Well seems you are in a more civilised place than the f@cking retarded English good for nothing after all...
32 Clyde15 (#) Oct 20th, 2012 - 05:13 pm Report abuse
At least the English have a system of Law which they have given as a basis for democracies world wide, such as Ghana !

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