Saturday, October 27th 2012 - 04:23 UTC

Argentina rejects bonds’ discrimination ruling and will go to US Supreme Court

Argentina downplayed the significance of the US Appeals Court ruling in support of investment funds that were ‘discriminated’ in the payment of their sovereign bonds vis-à-vis those that accepted the restructure of the massive 2002 Argentine default.

Finance Secretary Cosentino: “in no way is the ‘pari passu’ litigation over”

The administration of President Cristina Fernandez also anticipated Argentina is prepared to the take the case all the way to the US Supreme Court if needed but will never yield to the ‘vulture funds’.

“Today’s sentence (Friday) is suspended from the moment it was dictated and continues suspended, so it does not alter at all the current ‘status quo’” said Finance Secretary Adrian Cosentino adding that the ruling ‘partially’ confirms Judge Thomas Griesa decision from late 2011, which benefited ‘vulture funds’ demanding equal treatment for all Argentine sovereign bond holders.

Cosentino underlined that “today’s ruling in no way finalizes the litigation over the ‘pari passu’ which will demand further procedures both in first and second instance, and of course at the US Supreme Court”, where Argentina is prepared to appeal.

The 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals in New York sent the case back to Griesa’s court to clarify how a payment formula set by the judge is intended to work and to determine how the orders apply to intermediary banks and other third parties.

Likewise Cosentino said that the Appeals Court decision is “by nature conceptual and lacks all practical implementation regarding the compliance of debt servicing”.

356 comments Feed

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1 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 04:35 am Report abuse
everyone is going to get real tired of the bleating and crying now...
2 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 04:47 am Report abuse
Just. Pay. Up.
3 Think (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:15 am Report abuse
What did I tell you yesterday, your honor?........:
”(1) Think : The Government of Argentina disagrees.... We appeal, your Honor.”

And what did them ”Legal Expert Turnips” respond?.......:
(3) reality check:
”Thought you already did, here's a clue, it is all in the name of the court!”

(4) Captain Poppy:
”Appeal an Appellate court? Ask the Supreme court next year is they will review the case… lol”

(7) yankeeboy
”Think, That was your appeal, didn't you read the article? ”

(9) Acchiappaladri
Chi va piano, va sano e va lontano.:-)

(12) ChrisR
” You CANNOT appeal an appeal court unless it on the grounds they did not follow the law…. (Blah blah bhlah)…..”

What a big Turnip field………..
4 Rule Brittania (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:35 am Report abuse
i use to enjoy coming on this site and laughing at Argentina's ,latest fuck up but now it happens so often i just feel humiliated for them.. i mean what hope have they got with people like chris who thinks he can assume the role of armchair lawyer and lecture about things that lawyers would laugh at but commend him 'for having ago at playing grown up'' it really is desperate stuff and i don't enjoy watching a nation look so stupid so often on the world stage thanks to cfk's admin and simpletons like chris /// God Save Argentina!!
5 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:45 am Report abuse
It's paradoxical that by forcing Argentina to pay up against the last default will trigger a new default.

This shall be known as Default II
6 Think (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:49 am Report abuse
First the Anglo ”Legal Expert Turnips”
Now the Anglo ”Economics Expert Turnips”
This Anglo Turnip field is getting bigger and bigger and………..
7 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:54 am Report abuse
How do you think they keep the underdeveloped nations in the mud? By loaning them money so they can prosper?
8 reality check (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:01 am Report abuse
@3 Cabbage Patch Troll

Your point is what?

1. You have a fascination with Brassicas.
2. You like to cut and paste.
3. There is no point.
9 willi1 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:13 am Report abuse
a typical argentine idiot: he speaks of dicrimination agains arg.
the arg discrimination against bondholders is what??
10 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:15 am Report abuse
Poor Singer being discriminated like that...
Why don't you protect your middle class instead of a multi-billionaire? That makes no sense what so ever...
11 reality check (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:18 am Report abuse
A easy concept to understand realy.

A Court rules in Argentinas favour, that's Justice.

A Court rules against Argentina, that's discrimination.
12 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:25 am Report abuse
Had you lot been as fervent protecting your oen interests as you are protecting Singer's, maybe you wouldn't have been constantly buttf*cked by your own government... Go help Singer first though, he needs it...
13 Think (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:30 am Report abuse
(8) reality check & TWIMC

The “points” I'm trying to convey to the brainwashed Anglo Turnips in here are always the same...

1) Argentina and Britain are NOT “Mortal Enemies” or whatever.
We have a disagreement about some wind blown Islands in the South-Atlantic, alright.....
You Brits can just take your 2,500 British squatters back home and we will be the best of friends..... in a jiffy.

2) Nor Britain nor Argentina are going “Down the Drain”, are “Finished” or whatever other turnipidities the brainwashed Anglo Turnips and the trolls on both sides like to tell us.

I hope this has clarified my “Points” for you.....
Best regards
El Think
14 reality check (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:41 am Report abuse
Grassy Arse.
15 Think (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:52 am Report abuse
De nada.
16 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:56 am Report abuse
Default I
Default II
fool me once, shame on you etc... no sympathy
17 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:58 am Report abuse
Argentina fooled you? We can agree on you being a fool, but that has little to do with Argentina...
18 LEPRecon (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:16 am Report abuse
@17 - Guzz

No Argentina fooled a lot of people to loan them money. Then Argentina defaulted. A few years later Argentina offered them a few cents on the dollar. Most of those people who trusted Argentina were not big multi-national corporations, but ordinary people. Ordinary people who believed that Argentina would honour its word.

Some of those people took the pathetic Argentina 'offer', some tried to hold out to see if they could recoup their losses.

Some if them sold on the debt for a better offer from people like Singer, who can afford to wait out on court decisions.

Yet the real losers here are the people who believed in Argentina and invested, and lost most of their money.

Now everyone realises that Argentina has NO honour. It doesn't honour it's word. It doesn't honour the treaties that it willingly signed up to.

Now Argentina can't get anyone to invest in or loan money to them, and it's their own fault.

Argentina will soon end up defaulting again. This time the losers will be the ordinary Argentine people whose pensions the government has stolen.

This default will be much worse than the last one, and because Argentina has no honour, no one will help them. Even Venezula, the friend of Argentina, couldn't loan them enough money to do any good.

The Argentine people can thank CFK for completely destroying their credibility and trustworthiness, which may take years, if not decades to put right.

And all the time Argentina twists and turns trying to get out of the mess they created, delaying and delaying.

Well the Supreme Court is your last chance. I doubt their ruling will be any different from the appeal courts, as I doubt they have anything new or relevant to say. This is just a delaying tactic from the Argentine government, who hope all these problems will somehow magically disappear.
19 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:22 am Report abuse
Believed in Argentina? Or believed in the system that makes you leeches suck the life out of the “3rd world”?
Don't take me for a fool, your contract was never made in the good faith of Argentina's future prosperity.
20 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:40 am Report abuse
This is the interesting bit;

“Argentina can pay all amounts owed to its exchange bondholders provided it does the same for its defaulted bondholders. Or it can decide to make partial payments to its exchange bondholders as long as it pays a proportionate amount to holders of the defaulted bonds.”

May not sound that interesting but this has important implications.
21 Tinx (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:43 am Report abuse

You are what a gabbler/gormless fiber. !

Here is Medcopress ,you should learn the rules before commenting here.

Here are the rules;

1) You have to talk lie many times...speak a lot but tell nothing .....

2) You have to have ability of distraction......

3) You have to have many kinds of comment names (female,male)

4) You have to speak yourself together with your other names to cast a fly.


I could write other detail tips if you want.



Are you freshman here ?

these rules are valid for you too .......
22 Conqueror (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:46 am Report abuse
@3 For those who don't know, this is actually Twinky's prayer to the goddess CFK. Trouble is he forgot one word. Please.
@4 It's too late. God already gave up on argieland. You can't go around attacking, invading, occupying other people, as well as cheating, lying, stealing and expecting God to look out for you. What they are actually doing now is pasting up mugshots of CFK and praying to them. And “churches” will be re-designated “temples”. You may have noticed that they are already reverting to “human sacrifice”. Sometimes called scapegoats. Watch for the “burnt offerings”. That will be the stores, offices, factories going up in flames as workers get told there is no money to pay them.
@6 Don't knock it. Turnips are tasty. When you have nothing else!
@7 You really don't understand the world. Take underdeveloped country A. The world looks and thinks the people need help. They divvy up some cash. Being underdeveloped, the chief crook and “his” cronies reckon they can have some of that. So a lot of the cash goes on “homes”, “hotels”, “cars”, “shoes” and “presidential” aircraft. Hang on. Where does that sound like?
@13 Let's clarify. It has just been announced that Britain's economy is the best and strongest in Europe. And no, you can't have the Falklands. Because they are going to be a lot richer than argieland. You'll be able to watch Falkland Islanders all flying off to wherever they want in their private executive jets, sailing past in their yachts and wonder why you can't manage more than a bike and a dugout.
@17 It's OK, Guzzle. Uruguay will be going down the tubes too. For being an accessory!
@19 Why not? You are one. Argieland's future prosperity? That's a laugh. Argieland wouldn't know how to “prosper” if it was MADE of gold!
@21 Excuse me? Aren't you going to give us your erudite lecture on TIME?
23 Tinx (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:53 am Report abuse
& 22

No !

These 4 rules are valid for everyone..I,You,He/She,We,You,They. ..!
24 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:16 am Report abuse
OT but anyone goining to the Superclásico on Sunday? love it.
25 LEPRecon (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 11:23 am Report abuse
@19 - Guzz

No people gave loans othe understanding that Argentina was honourable enough to pay their debts.

So you are now saying that Argentina is a third world country, well when the loans were made it wasn't considered so, but now it is?

Hmm that will be the fault of the government then. They continue to mismanage and steal from the country. Soon it won't even be a 3rd world country, it'll probably be listed somewhere behind Afghanistan and Somalia in financail risk factor.

And Argentina wonder why no one will invest in their country and help them develop. Once bitten, twice shy.
26 HansNiesund (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 12:52 pm Report abuse

Guzz Lightyear is right. As a Heavily Indebted Poor Country with chronic problems of governance, Argentina deserves sympathy, not sarcasm.
27 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 12:57 pm Report abuse
Only reason SA got loose from your grip is because you lost the market to China, not because you decided to do the right thing all of the sudden. SA doesn't want your sympathy, we want you as far away as possible.
28 ptolemy (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
Maybe this is the problem : ” Parker wrote. “The district court found that the republic had sufficient funds, including over $40 billion in foreign currency reserves, to pay plaintiffs the judgments they are due.” ( Bloomberg news.) If they have the cash, why do they not pay?
29 agent999 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 01:29 pm Report abuse
Here we go again.
It's all ways everyone else's fault never anything to do with Argentina.

It's the Brady plan, its the Paris club, it 's the vulture funds, it's the US & UK, it's the Clarin group and on and on and on.
30 Tobers (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 01:47 pm Report abuse
The irresponsability and persecution complex is astounding.
31 yankeeboy (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 01:48 pm Report abuse
28. Because they probably only have u$8-10B in liquid foreign reserves. It would be more believable they said they had 40B unicorns.
32 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 01:55 pm Report abuse
Vulture fonds, UK, USA, Clarin... Same shit, different names
33 Tobers (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:02 pm Report abuse

Its hard being the victim all the time huh? Always feeling that you are being persecuted whilst happily enjoying the fruits from a Northern European lifestyle. You live in Sweden or Denmark right? The Scandanavians are fans of the Brits as you may have noticed.

You lot bleat on about the fact that people voted for CFK and that should be respected. Well if thats the case shouldnt people also be able to choose how they live their lives in general? Who they do business with, what paper they read, what they buy with the money they earned etc etc?

If you speaking on behalf of all SA want to shut out the gringos or global influence then how about you give up all the technology invented and developed beyond SAs borders starting with the PC or laptop you are using etc etc etc ? And cultural aspects too. In fact -mayhap- everyone in SA could revert back to the Mayan way of life... thanks to your absurd ideology.
34 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
Stop taking credit for other people's work. You didn't have anything to do with the invention of the computer, so shut up or disconnect.
Scandinaviams aren't behind you lot, they are just like the rest of Europe atm, saving their own arses.
35 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:09 pm Report abuse

Snide... but empty
36 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:10 pm Report abuse
True indeed, goes under the name of “you lot”.
37 ChrisR (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:12 pm Report abuse
The problem here, besides the abdication of the rule of law by AG, is the problem that the US legal system has with closing out the plaintiffs.

In the UK, a Judge (not a Magistrate) is allowed in a determination to ‘find as a fact’ something that clearly is a fact, such as the contravention of clauses of AGs own contracts.


The only legal route out if this is a Judicial Review of the judges actions, carried out be another Judge. If the Judge upholds the ‘finding as a fact’ decision then that’s the end of the legal road.

I, together with a small group of pistol shooters, the NSRA (a shooting body) and the Swiss manufacturer did exactly this when the cnut Brown tried to include in the UK pistol ban a type of pistol (a free pistol) which clearly fell within the law. We won and managed to buy the pistols in the UK for UK use. That pissed New Labour off a bit. :o)

If, very rarely, the Judge finds in favour of the Plaintiff then an appeal to the Supreme Court is allowed.

There is no doubt in anyone’s’ mind that AG discriminated against one group of bondholders against the terms written in their own documents. NOTE to Guzz; the rule of law matters, not whether Singer is a billionaire and the others are ‘middle class: many banks took the 30% deal.

In the UK the AGs case would be dead by now and thet would have failed with the appeal.
38 agent999 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:14 pm Report abuse
It's just like you then Guzz, sponging and hiding in northern europe
39 Tobers (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:16 pm Report abuse

Distraction and obfustification noted.

I didnt invent the computer and I never said I did.

Scandanavians respect Britain - the style, music, sense of humor, the English language etc. You are trying to suggest something different.

You have no argument.
40 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:20 pm Report abuse
#3 think the reason I say ASK the Supreme Court is that just because you say you are taking it to the Supreme Court does not mean it will be accepted by the Supreme Court for a review. If they determine that there is nothing to review and the ruling is black and white, they will not accept the case and the law stands as previously ruled. You see unlike rgenturd.....Justices are on board for life and not elected.
Until the new session in October 2013, they ruling stands and I highly doubt the court will take the case.
41 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:20 pm Report abuse
Hahaha, the only thing you have in common with the Scandinavians is your need of copying USA, otherwise they are much more democratic, innovative, prosperous and fair than you ever have been... Maybe not innovative, you guys leech like noone else....
42 Xect (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
Post 26 - Guzz
Only reason SA got loose from your grip is because you lost the market to China, not because you decided to do the right thing all of the sudden. SA doesn't want your sympathy, we want you as far away as possible.

- We feel the same now leave Europe, you're not welcome.
43 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:23 pm Report abuse
I've already offered you that deal, you lot leave, I'll do the same ;)
44 Britninja (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
Guzz is in no hurry to go back to his beloved South America. Despite his apparent loathing for the First World he can't quite let go of the better standard of living, wages and far superior education. In summary he is: 1. Hypocrite. 2 Greedy 3. Parasite.
45 Tobers (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:41 pm Report abuse

'Ill leave if you leave'.

Youre brimming with integrity. Pathetic.
46 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:43 pm Report abuse
An integrated European, you mean?
47 Tobers (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
Clarin is not the enemy. Nationalism (and thus irresponability) is. Argentina's insecurity results in this disease. And the more they feel persecuted the further they sink into nationalism.

I know its fashionable to hate Clarin but their stance is pro Las Malvinas and consider the hedge funds 'vulture funds' iow 'theyre bad and Argentina is not to blame' . As usual.
48 Britninja (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
An integrated European... No, you remind me more of an Abu Hamza type character. A psychopath who came to the UK to preach hatred about how the Western World should be razed to the ground...all the while living in state housing and sponging off welfare. You're contemptible.
49 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:52 pm Report abuse
I'm honored a piece of badly processed shit like you thinks like that about me. Means a lot to me to know I'm on the right track. I thank thee.
50 Britninja (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:55 pm Report abuse
You're welcome - I'm sure you evoke the same feelings in most people you meet ;) No one likes a whining leech.
51 Hook (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 02:55 pm Report abuse
47@ Argentina is a good example how nationalism can make people blind like in 1930-Germany, they're not doing themselves a favor. What Argentinian people lack most, is self-criticism. They see themselves as something superior but the reality is something else.
48@ haha, good one..
52 Conqueror (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
@43 I live in my country. The Falkland Islanders live in their country. You, apparently, are living in a European country. You want to “fight your corner”? Go live in “your corner”. Sod off.
@49 Thank you for the confirmation. You are, without doubt, shit. Just like Hamza. Guess where he is now? Where he's going to get his come-uppance. As will you!
53 Xect (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:35 pm Report abuse
I often find the biggest Argentinian fans are the ones that don't live there.

I guess its easy to be blinkered when you don't live there since you've not been forced into poverty by the government or suffered through their reckless policies and persecuted.

Guzz likes SA so much he lives in Europe....... What more is there to say?
54 Hook (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
Guzz, du är en jävla blatte aren't you? The Brits got you cornered, eh?
55 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:37 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
56 Hook (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
Guzz, you should go to live in Argentina just like Xect suggests, and you'll be missing Denmark pretty soon.
57 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:41 pm Report abuse
I'm only here to get some knowledge out of you lot, best way ever to beat you :)
58 Xect (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:43 pm Report abuse
I don't think you'll get the knowledge you require working in Starbucks Guzz......
59 Hook (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 03:47 pm Report abuse
beat who? i never wanted to be an enemy of Argentina, they want to make enemies with everyone..

1)Falklands belongs to the people of Falklands
2)if Argentina can make it without the rest of the world and build everything by their own, i'll give my blessing, it's just after seeing the Argentinian society, i know they will look more like Bolivia than any European country after that..
60 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
I've already defined “you lot”, has nothing to do with borders
61 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 04:43 pm Report abuse
Argentine people around the world support CFK 100%.
And we demand CFK to create a vulture tax for imports coming from all nations in support of vulture funds. There is no need to travel around the world to deliver a message when you can do it from your home. We kindly thank all outsider for their cheerful support and self serving contributions, but ultimately is the Argentine people who will bear the consequence of our actions. When every friend is out to back stab you it is better to stay home with your family!..this tax will do exactly that make those vulture funds supporting nation keep their busyness at home, a hefty 25% vulture tax can be a good starting base. Just an idea, One of the many because apparently a nuclear defence program is costly and we need as much revenues as we can gather. A few years ago in Ontario Canada I witness how the government overcrowded jail with panhandlers and homeless to use the excuse to build a new super jail. All in a days work for the “gringo”, I wonder what the squeegee kids are doing this days? last time I seen them they where steering up trouble with the occupy movement.
62 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 04:46 pm Report abuse
Xect if you were an argentine, wouldn't you want to leave your country for Europe as well. I bet he tell's people he is Chilean also. North Americans cannot tell the difference in accents.
63 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
Sweden is great, Denmark as well. But I got small kids, so England is a no-go...
64 agent999 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 05:29 pm Report abuse
Hi Guzz,
Congratulations on the birth of your small kids.

It's quite amazing that they have grown up so quickly, you being an exchange student studying a Beca.
65 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 05:43 pm Report abuse
Exchange student, with Swedish passport? Lolz...
66 agent999 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 05:46 pm Report abuse
So what nationality are the kids
67 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
@37 good analysis
68 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:05 pm Report abuse
I think the Argentinian Govt. are wrong to dismiss and generally underestimate NML and its parent Elliot Management Corp.

Elliot Management Corp. won a similar case against Peru and forced them to pay up in full in 2000. This was based on the same principles as the current claim against Argentina.
69 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
Don't, just don't. Freak
70 Hook (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
64@ agent999

we don't know her age, in Argentina it's normal to study till the age of 35-40
71 agent999 (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:32 pm Report abuse
Freak ?
72 briton (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
Points of note,

1, Paul Elliott Singer [American born] grew up in a Jewish family
2, is a millionaire, and got into what we might call [debt buying]or [debt sharking]
3, his company buys up sovereign, debt, for peanuts and uses the courts to enforce payments, thus making a vast profit.
4, found to be very profitable from governments, who likewise may have vast assets..
5, Singer, who’s adept at profiting from the debt of floundering companies such as Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., snapped up Vitro’s bonds. Then he sued to be paid in full,
In lawsuit after lawsuit in Mexico and the U.S., Elliott and other hedge funds have challenged Vitro’s bankruptcy and sought to seize the glassmaker’s American assets and revenue from customers that include Ford Motor Co.
6, Within the Law’
“We obtained legal opinion from two experts in stock market laws, corporate law and Concurso Mercantil to be sure we were within the law,” he says.
7, The government of Peru in 2000 agreed to pay him $58 million, a 400 percent profit, on the debt of two Peruvian banks he’d purchased four years earlier.
Singer has battled Argentina for a decade after buying more than $600 million of that country’s debt, some for as little as 15 cents on the dollar. In 2005, then-President Nestor Kirchner offered to swap the defaulted bonds for new ones worth about 30 cents on the dollar. About three-quarters of bondholders accepted.
Elliott’s NML Capital unit went to court for full payment and has since won five judgments totaling $1.6 billion. Elliott’s lawyers are preparing to argue in July that the Second U.S. Court of Appeals in New York should require Argentina to settle in full.

At least eye owe nothing, so he will get nothing from me.
If you borrow money , pay it back, because their will always besharks after you, even on lands.????
watch out theirs a shark about.

73 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:39 pm Report abuse
Watch out when defending your sharks Briton, remember China is buying Europe's debts...
74 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:43 pm Report abuse
Guzz, maybe everyone, internally, externally, should stop loaning the Argentine gov money today so they don't have to participate in 'a system'. Because the Arg federal government and the provinces and-- YPF-- have been asking insistently for more loans. I agree, stop the system for Argentina.
75 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:45 pm Report abuse
When the day arrives the Chinese start collecting debts, remember the rules of the game you defend...
76 briton the arse (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
@72 briton @ Isolde
you sound drunk!
77 briton (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
thats why the world laughs at you 76,

give decent info, and get childish replies,
silly argie turnip,,
78 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
I liked your info, not biased for once, merely facts...
I'm sure you will find flaws in their methods the day the Chinese comes to claim their cash...
79 briton (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:04 pm Report abuse
well, im not defending,

but its a fact, that people and goverments borrow money,
and some dont pay back,

argentina aint the first, and cirtainly wont be the last.

loan sharks are everywhere..
80 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
Argentina should bring Joseph Stiglitz ex-chief economist of the World Bank to testify on Argentina's behalf. I am sure he can make it all clear since when took part in the negotiations.
81 TipsyThink (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
Magnificént Guzz...pléase keep ôn ..........



briton' s high culture commént astonished mé !



I am the Argentina's economic advisér sincé 2002
no neéd Stiglitz or else économísts right now !
82 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 07:53 pm Report abuse
Going to the Supreme Court might be a good idea. They are innovating precedent that frees people from government special priviledge, U.S. too.
83 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:05 pm Report abuse

“you sound drunk!”

You too, SUSSIE, yawn
84 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
It is highly unlikely that China will come calling on bonds and treasuries they own of the USA and EU. These two markets alone make makeup almost 50% of China's exports. And unlike argentina, China is business minded and not likely to shoot themselves in the foot like argentina continually does.
As long as China is paid and paid on time and regularly, they will always place they money in the safest and most consistent government markets. They will have have high risk play money for the likes of argentina, but that is so small. In the USA 32% of our debt is owned by SSA, the remaining 68% is owned by private citizens, corporations and other governments. 42% is owned by foreign governments that continue to see the USA as the safest most reliable bonds on earth, because we have never defaulted.....FACT! China owns about 25% of all USA debt. However with the USA being 30% of all Chinese exports, it is in their own best interest to remain a stable creditor and trade partner. As I previously stated, China has a business mind and are not about to shoot themselves in the foot like argentina month...after month...after month.
guzz even though you wish other countries to be deadbeats like argentina, you will never see Americans taking their children and fleeing in shame as you.....or the like of alexis vargas, pontificating on the greatness of argentina........safely and comfortable in the freedom of Canada. All you pinheads love argentina....from at least 6,000 miles away.
85 TipsyThink (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:10 pm Report abuse

Privileged people don't protest,their world is safe and governed by laws designed to keep them happy.
86 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
#81 he is the perfect witness, I still think Argentina should bring Joseph Stiglitz ex-chief economist of the World Bank to testify on Argentina's behalf. I am sure he can make it all clear since he took part in the negotiations, he is what lawyers would consider the perfect witness.
87 TipsyThink (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse

Piranha Hunter

the well known expert on 90 th years Argentina was Michael Moussa who was that years one of the prominent experts of IMF..but they had not solved the Economy and have not perceived it especially since the year of 2002.(Stiglitz is known on about Mexico articles not Argentina).
88 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:27 pm Report abuse
That other boat in South Africa is only worth small change, maybe useful as a distraction to drain Argentina's legal resources.

Now getting the Bank of New York to ensure fair payment to bond holders, old and new, that's pay day!

Key is to leave NO wriggle room to escape responsibilities.

Choice will be pay all or default all.

89 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:28 pm Report abuse
Good job surfer
You won!!

A game of chess...
90 TipsyThink (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
The technical informing is forbidden to media !
91 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
Let's not forget about Repsol, there's rumours about Sinopec buying their share. This will put the Argentine Govt. in a difficult position regarding price fixing, profit minimisation etc..

Repsol still need to recover assets outside of this situation, wonder what their legal team are planning.

Really starting to look like a perfect storm.
92 Beef (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
@7 Guzz - Argentina was not forced to borrow, it chose to. As a result it should recognise its responsibilities and pay it's liabilities.
93 Frank (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:51 pm Report abuse
Interesting stuff here
94 surfer (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
Argentina will pay, the quick easy way or the painful slow (and more expensive) way.

The Argentine Govt. appears to prefer the latter, this is due to hubris.
95 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:03 pm Report abuse
What were the other options, you say? Where to get money from to honour their old contract? How do you guys honour your debts?
96 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:26 pm Report abuse
Short answer for the U.S.:

Christine Lagarde, of the IMf, is a self-proclaimed leftist and is kinda interesting. She handed an UNAUTHORIZED list of the 2,000 richest Greek's SWISS BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS to the Greek gov. The Greek gov then said they lost it!!!!! Roflmao

The U.S., and others have new agreements with the Swiss ABOLISHING secret bank accounts.

The Arg gov is #3 on Crisis Watch after #1Greece/#2Cyprus.

Why isn't president passionate about making Swiss bank accounts transparent?
97 Beef (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:28 pm Report abuse
Guzz - We have assets that we utilise to gain revenue. As long as our income generation is greater than the interest on our credit then life is a doddle. One simply alters ones bowing at differing point depending on the economic cycle or general economic environment.

Credit can be used to invest in infrastructure to deliver an economic return which will create more wealth after the credit has been paid back.

Argentina made the decision to borrow but did not utilise the credit effectively to generate a grater return. This is the fault of Argentina and for some strange reason Argies cannot accept their ineptitude.

Simply pay up what was borrowed or the negotiated amount agreed with the individual creditors and stop complaining.
98 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:34 pm Report abuse
If what you say is true, then why is your dept keep getting exponentially bigger every year?

I'm glad to hear you can use the credit given to infrastructure, most countries out there have little left pn the new credit when the old one is accounted for...
99 Beef (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:44 pm Report abuse
Debt will grow and shrink at different points in the economic cycle. With our borrowing rate so low is is a good time to borrow. But our budget deficit is reducing and when we move into a surplus this will be at another point in the economic cycle.

The trick is getting a return of one's investments. Why one has debt, one also has assets and getting a growth on the assets outweighing the interest is the general idea. This is completely unrelated to the budget deficit so will not be accounted for in any debt calculation as one does not deduct assets from borrowing.
100 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:52 pm Report abuse
Stop it man, lets be adults about this... Are you seriously projecting the possibilities of a “1st world” nation, with low interest rate, working infrastructure, local production and all that comes with it, to a “3rd world” nation with high interest rate, poor infrastructure and out-sourced production and all that comes with that?
101 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 09:53 pm Report abuse
#87 michael mussa is being dead for quite some time I doubt any of his memoirs could be used in court. Though it might be worth while to mention, and I quote.

“Asian Turmoil

The IMF came under fire during the second half of Mussa’s tenure for failing to anticipate the financial turmoil that spread from East Asia to Eastern Europe and then to Latin America. Its advocacy of austerity in return for loans then drew fresh criticism as recessions deepened, with many governments in Asia still skeptical of its advice today.

During his time at the IMF, Mussa publicly battled with Joseph Stiglitz, then chief economist at the World Bank, about the impact of IMF programs, which Stiglitz said did more harm than good. The tension mounted in December 1998, when the World Bank issued a report suggesting the IMF worsened East Asia’s economic slump by forcing governments to raise interest rates and cut spending, plunging millions of people into poverty.

The report drew an angry response from Mussa.

“If you have cancer, chemotherapy doesn’t make you feel better in the short term, but it may nevertheless be essential for a successful cure,” he said.

He was nevertheless willing to criticize the IMF once no longer on its payroll. In April 2002, he said the fund had given Argentina too much leeway to build up debt until it was forced into a default.”

Witch brings us back to Sriglitz.
Argentina should bring Joseph Stiglitz ex-chief economist of the World Bank to testify on Argentina's behalf. I am sure he can make it all clear since when took part in the negotiations, I consider him to be an expert witness.
102 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:08 pm Report abuse
@102 PH Alex Vargas

”He was nevertheless willing to criticize the IMF once no longer on its payroll. In April 2002, he said the fund had given Argentina too much leeway to build up debt until it was forced into a default.”

Are you suggesting it is IMF 's fault if Argentina treats credit limit as a child would?
Argentina has to be accountable for its own actions, like any adult.

To lighten the mood, here is a little Dance Mix video of CFK and her closest friends:
103 Beef (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:09 pm Report abuse
No I am not Guzz. But Argentina could make best use of it's internal assets. Let us look at oil. Argentina could secure ample investment in its oil industry if it had a competitive environment in terms of royalties and taxes. Once this revenue stream comes on board (consistently) then the credit worthiness of Argentina improves and then it can look to acquire external assets (like lensing that money e.g. sovereign wealth funds). The Arabs do this well.

The infrastructure is brought by private companies coming to invest in an economy that is open and has advantageous tax and royalty regimes. The problem with Argentina is that it doesn't like foreign companies to make a profit in Argentina so stifles their activities so much that they cannot grow sufficiently to warrant investing in Argentina. Instead it decides to nationalise/steal and therefore destroys the potential it could have.

Now Argentina can secure little investment in its oil industry and YPF is going nowhere.

Now Argentina is being forced to make good on it's debt and any asset is fair game (as agreed by Argentina when its default conditions were negotiated). Argentina is clearly running scared y this as it was an Air France jet that brought the abandoned crew back.

The situation in Argentina is of Argentina's doing and Argentina's only.
104 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
Argentina is not a child that the IMF is a parent of, PH.
The IMF is just a co-op credit union.

But I agree with you in this area-the IMF LEARNED from Argentina and cut off any more loans to
Greece last month. Years ago would have been better.

(Even though they encourage Euro Union to continue loaning!)

The challenge is humanitarian, if someone keeps funding they have the power to require reform. Argentina is not a child that the IMF is a parent of, PH.
The IMF is just a co-op credit union.

But I agree with you in this area-the IMF LEARNED from Argentina and cut off any more loans to
Greece last month. Years ago would have been better.

(Even though they encourage Euro Union to continue loaning!)

The challenge is humanitarian, if someone keeps funding they have the power to require reform.
105 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:16 pm Report abuse
You think 80% of the worlds population are poor because they are stupid?
Fine, continue thinking that way, you wont even know what happened...
106 Beef (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:30 pm Report abuse
No, poverty is the result of poor governance. Argentina is a clear example of this.

There will however always be financial inequality and poverty, unavoidable. Even Jesus said so!
107 Guzz (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 10:44 pm Report abuse
Easy to say this side of the fence. It's over, new rules are being written as we speak.
108 Ayayay (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 11:01 pm Report abuse
Yup, by 2050 it's predicted that the U.S. will be the only non predominantly Asian country in the top five :)
109 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 27th, 2012 - 11:22 pm Report abuse
O well I try to tell you people why expropriation is not good it, but people don't understand that Argentina has nothing to loose and much to gain, if YPF didn't show you a glimps of things to come when nationalization of resources, utilities and public works start it will be years before anyone can change Argentinas heading, but sure Cuba did it for 60 years, Venezuela did 10 and counting, Bolivia just announces expropiations., Argentina could be next with a little more encouragement from vultutre funds.

I think creating a 25% vulture fund tax to recover the stolen money from major importers bringing goods from countries giving support and refuge is the best way to send the vulture funds and the world a message. But if Argentina is thinking on going to court Joseph Stiglitz would be the best substantial witness, considering most document are highly secretive, what could be better than an insider?

But expropriation can be a quick and effective tool to archive complete isolation, with the friends we seem to have here why even bother to trade anything with any of this people.
110 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:04 am Report abuse

“Cuba did if for 60 years”

... and it failed her.
Cuba nationalised everything and was cut off by US trade sanctions.
Tough going for awhile, then the Soviets with their wide variety of satellite states to trade with, bailed them out.
I have been to Cuba many many times and The Cubans are free to admit that it was a great place under the Soviets, but there is great resentment that they left, and abandoned the island.
Cuba had tough time - rice and beans if they were lucky.
Until foreign investment from China, Canada, and the EU, life was a struggle, with a crumbling infrastructure and poverty.
Chavez is propping them up with imported oil. All these factors have helped them to come a long way, and to their credit, they are learning how to develop their industries as they liberalise their totalitarian government.

Isolationism is hardly a formula for economic success.
111 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:43 am Report abuse
I already warned all of you that expropriation is not the way to go because Argentina has nothing to lose, but you guys seem to think that Argentina has a lot of wealth wondering around the world aimlessly, for example for every 20 planes arriving to Argentina there is at least 1 Argentine. Well guess how many nations will have to keep track of the planes coming to Argentina, or about ships or land owners or mining. Like Garrick gold Or Monsanto, be werry werry quiet am hunting for wabbits. Trust me when people are out to back stab you you are better of alone. That way everybody is happy and trust me no Argentine will miss the English talking heads.
I still believe that charging a vulture tax of 25% to all imports coming into Argentina would be a better way to deliver the world and the vulture funds a message. My opinion at #109 still stands.
112 Ayayay (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:47 am Report abuse
Venezuela's on the default watch list. The Bolivar goes for nothing on the black market, and the word is Chavez is waiting until afyer December local elections to devaluate officially to half.

Plus you can't easily find harina de maize, leche, frijoles or aceite there.
113 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:07 am Report abuse
#112 Venezuela could very easily allocate all those things you mentioned from mercosur witch am sure you are aware of. What's your point? Considering the proximity of our markets I am sure you can see it as a perfect solution. If you read the comments here pretty much reflect the status quo, I present you a good solution in which no outsiders help is required, but yet you rather keep arguing, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to reach a conclusion based on simple logics. If it cry like a baby and whines like a baby, it is a Brit. Isn't a vulture import tax of 25% as I suggested in post# 109 starting to sound a lot better now?
114 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 04:29 am Report abuse

“I still believe that charging a vulture tax of 25% to all imports coming into Argentina would be a better way to deliver the world and the vulture funds a message. My opinion at #109 still stands.”

I don't know why nobody came up with this before.

Very easy to suggest whatever draconian measures and austerity programs you like for a population of 40 million people, if you don't live there.

While you live in comfort in Canada, you're happy to prescribe misery to your countrymen.
Welcome to North Korea II
115 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:26 am Report abuse
@63 Guzz (#)
Oct 27th, 2012 - 05:00 pm

Tell you what mate you certainly don't want to take them to Uruguay. There, unless the victim can prove that he or she was violently raped (and the burden of proof is placed on the victim by the way) then it wouldn't even be considered child abuse unless the victim was under the age of 12. Mate. I wouldn't want to live in Uruguay if I had kids either. Best to stay in Scandanavia.
116 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:39 am Report abuse
It's not the law that keeps us from abusing our kids. There are some values you would never understand...
117 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:51 am Report abuse
How very enigmatic of you Guzz.

So why did you have to leave Uruguay Guzz? What is your story eh? Did he/she tell you he/she was 12 and you believed her?

Twelve Guzz! Twelve! In your country these dirty pedo's being investigated and arrested here in the UK wouldn't even have a case to answer.

Twelve! Jesus H Corbett and you, you sick streak of p!ss have the gall to try to use it to score points.

Truly shocking.
118 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:55 am Report abuse
It's not my fault you don't understand English :)))))


The age of consent in Uruguay stands at 15 regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

Between the ages of 12 and 15, there is an intermediary status where violence is legally presumed until otherwise proven. In this case, the onus probandi (the burden of proof) shifts from the plaintiff to the accused, who still has the chance to prove in their defense that consent was given. Below the age of 12 proof of consent is not a defense.

Uruguay also has a Corruption of minors law, which can bring charges to those manipulating minors below the age of 18 into having sexual relations. For ages over 15, however, a lawsuit can be initiated only by a minor or the minor's parents, except when the minor has no parents or legal guardian; or where the accusation is brought against a parent or legal guardian.

Now, I'm going to tell you what this means in your language.
If you have sex with a person between 12-15, it's automatically a crime, should the defendant (mostly a Brit) not be able to proove that consent was given.
119 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:07 am Report abuse
It isn't my fault you only see what you want to see you sick peo you.

”Between the ages of 12 and 15, there is an intermediary status where violence is legally presumed until otherwise proven. In this case, the onus probandi (the burden of proof) shifts from the plaintiff to the accused, who still has the chance to prove in their defense that consent was given. Below the age of 12 proof of consent is not a defense.”

Simple. In your country somebody much like yourself could argue your way out of a conviction if your victim was over the age of 12 and they could not prove that you had violently assaulted him/her.

In the UK if the victim is under the age of 16 you would be bang to rights. Statutory Rape, even if you could prove that they gave their consent.

I will agree with you though that the law is not what stops people abusing kids it is fundamental human nature, but in Uruguay the law makes things much easier for sickos like you.
120 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:09 am Report abuse
”In this case, the onus probandi (the burden of proof) shifts from the plaintiff to the accused”

The victim between 12-15 needs to proove nothing, you (the rapist) need to.

Listen mate, just stop abusing your kids and you don't need to spend your time on excuses :)))
121 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:13 am Report abuse
So you could still get away with it so long as you could prove that you did not use violence unless she was under the age of 12.

The argument still stands sicko, the argument still stands.
122 Tinx (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:18 am Report abuse
Heeey British

Always ask yourself “” Is this country I deserve “”
My point is NO !

Corrupt/outmoded State regime does not deserve you.
lax world living finished for your society.

Learn foreign language , search/find job abroad.
123 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:21 am Report abuse
No, you need to proove that the person you raped in reality WANTED you to rape her/him. That is what you need to proove.

I don't really care for your excuses mate, just stop abusing your kids!!! Is that so bloody a hard thing to do?? THEY ARE KIDS DAMN YOU!!!!!
124 ElaineB (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:27 am Report abuse
@ 118 Oh dear, Guzz - the boy with too much on his mind and not a lot in it.

That would have been a very interesting post but for the (mostly a brit). So childish.

When I did my child protection training - quite a while ago - one of the key enablers of child abusers was to deny it happens EVERYWHERE. Well done for enabling, Guzz.

We don't know the true statistics of child abuse because most abusers get away with it. They are clever, cunning, manipulative and get into position where they cannot be challenged. Children are generally powerless, unlikely to be believed and so traumatised they don't speak or tell. They fear retribution.

Interestingly, where some of the biggest scandals have been uncovered in recent years. The child migrants in Australia, the US, Chile, Argentina, Ireland, and the UK (including Jimmy Savile), to name but a few, the abusers are Catholic or in Catholic institutions. I would never assert that abusing children is restricted to Catholics, far from it, it is endemic and most often occurs within families and close family friends. It also occurs frequently in institutional situations, schools, church groups, scouts, homes etc. Where the balance of power is in favour of the abuser.

However, I do think there is some reason to examine the role of religions where people are indoctrinated with fear and retribution with their vulnerability to abuse.

When I very first travelled to Argentina I was making enquiries about the role of the church in daily life and was told by various sources that attendance had dropped and power waned in the recent decade. The primary reason given was the uncovering of abuse. People's faith may still be there but with less respect for the institution.

I could cite examples in many countries by you seem primarily interested in Argentina and I give that as an example of how naive it is to believe it only happens in other countries.
125 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:30 am Report abuse
@123 Guzz (#)
Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:21 am

“No, you need to proove that the person you raped in reality WANTED you to rape her/him. That is what you need to proove.”

Yes yes yes, I originally misread this misquoted sentence but it is interesting that you concentrate on this mistake in order to dodge the fundamental point Guzz.

When YOU have sex with somebody in Uruguay, it is not statutory rape unless YOUR victim is under the age of 12.

Anyway. What are you doing onlin?. I thought you had been arrested this morning?

Danish, Swedish Uruguayan? My bollox!
126 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:31 am Report abuse
Can we agree on stopping the generalization then? Because you lot talks about countries and flags as should they be one person only....
127 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:35 am Report abuse
Guzz, the term 'you lot' IS a generalisation but you knew that didn't you?
128 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:40 am Report abuse
You are right, I did pre-define “you lot”, didn't I...

You mean we should continue generalizing then?
Your posts are little constructive, its hard to tell your intentions with then...
129 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:43 am Report abuse
From my point of view I am fighting fire with fire Guzz. Don't know who started it. Are we going to be constructive again?
130 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:46 am Report abuse
I'm on fire with fire as well mate, will lead us nowhere... But it's great fun, isn't it?
131 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:47 am Report abuse
It keeps us out of other trouble I suppose.
132 Raven (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:13 am Report abuse

I see you keep pointing out the '3rd world' thing but I have to ask just how Argentina should be classified as such.

Argentina has a lot of material reserves that the rest of the world wishes to trade in. In fact, they should be cash rich with the oil and gas reserves they have. Argentina should not be classed as a 3rd world economy. They should be at the G20 as a serious producer of goods and services to the world. They have a large agricultural sector that could be capitalized upon to feed both themselves and a surplus to profit from. They also have the natural resources to to bring to the world market that are in demand.

Why are you classifying them as 3rd world?
133 ElaineB (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:20 am Report abuse
I think there is a temptation to generalise but almost without exception the criticism levelled at Argentina is aimed at the corrupt government, CFKC in particular, and the disbelief that so many Argentines believe the lies.

On the subject of the Argentine government, it was interesting that this week one of Nestor's key men has harshly criticised CFKC for not following Nestor's model but destroying it. He resigned not long after Nestor died and The Harpy was off the leash.

If you read about the early lives of Nestor and The Harpy, the conflicts of ideals are clear. CFKC is all about idealism, passion, lining her pockets, is power- crazy and has no clue. Nestor might not have been my choice of president but he would have, at least, known which battles to fight and where to adapt. In other words, he actually had a clue.

I doubt he would have saved Argentina from the approaching crisis, but they might have had half a chance if he had kept CFKC and her army of thugs tethered. La Campora has run a mock since his death.
134 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:25 am Report abuse
I agree with you, and that's exactly the way they are heading. Problem is, when one nation raises, another takes the fall, that's why all the fuss.

I'm not labelling Arg 3rd world, I'm merely using your labels...
135 War Monkey (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:38 am Report abuse
@134 Guzz (#)
Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:25 am

Who's labels? Everybody's labels or a specific persons labels? I thought we weren't generalising now.
136 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:46 am Report abuse
Well War Monkey
Lets say Swedish history then.
According to that, Europe and Asia is the “1st world”, NA the “2nd”, and the rest the “3rd”...
137 Raven (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:15 pm Report abuse
Argentina to me should be classified the same as Brazil, a 1st world developing country. Lots of natural resource, lots of 'refined' resource eg wine...

It's a shame they seem to be in a muddle, shouting loud in the UN about any cause that affects them and unable to be independent of the ghosts of the past. I wont troll against them as they have the ability to be a great nation, I just wonder if CFK is the best way for them to get there.
138 wesley mouch (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:34 pm Report abuse
The Supreme Court will not hear this case and Argentina will knows it. This is a major slap to chief criminal CFK. Lets hope that in addition more entities start seizing Argentine assets to recover what was stolen from them in the bond default. Attempting to seize some of CFK's wealth squirreled away in Switzerland might be attempted also.
139 yankeeboy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:49 pm Report abuse
138. I doubt SCOTUS will hear the case either. They already passed it back once.
I am wondering why CFK is waiting to settle up? This was a major blow and Arg will either have to negotiate with the holdouts or default on the rest of the outstanding bonds. I'm assuming they have an interest payment due in Dec. No way could it get to SCOTUS beforehand.

As I have been saying, Dec should be an interesting month for the Argentine.
140 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 01:07 pm Report abuse
I think the trolls here think SCOTUS is like their ragtags, that you can just take something to SCOTUS. They get like 6-7,000 review requests a year and take less than 90.
I think it's time for the World bank and WTO and what not get together and agree on how to intercept funds from countries that defaults yet refuses to pay when they can to 45 billion in U$ reserves, with it BS. Until the world agrees on some sort of bankruptcy protection for defaulting countries, the need to pay up.
141 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 01:16 pm Report abuse
I will disagree, until you change that rating system of yours, and with it, the interest rates.
142 Mendoza Canadian (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 01:21 pm Report abuse
A 25% tax on imports...what imports??...and what does get into Fortress Argentina is already taxed to death. 200 pesos for HP printer ink for instance. A friend here invested in governement bonds...and in the last week has lost close to 10.000 pesos because of pesification of the debt...he is one unhappy camper and will is sick and tired of CFK and her stupidity. His young niece and nephew-in-law just had a baby...then he lost his job in the construction industy and is working as a cook in a restaurant...out of province...she is screwing everyone...except herself that is.
143 yankeeboy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
140. If they really had U$45B they would not have import restrictions. I bet they have between $U8-10B in unrestricted cash.
That is why she is panicked.
144 ChrisR (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:04 pm Report abuse
@143 yankeeboy

It would not surprise me at al if thet have LESS than that.

How can anyone trust the financial numbers coming out of TMBOA so called 'government'?
145 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:05 pm Report abuse
Heck you guys trust your bankers and corporations. Touche.
146 yankeeboy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:13 pm Report abuse
144. I don't think there has been a BCRA audit in a very long time. Once CFK is gone there will be a lot to investigate. I think they'll find notes from Treasury, Provinces, Anses, etc etc etc in place of their U$.

Toby, Stay on topic will you!
147 Conqueror (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
@61 Grow up, alex. And while you're at it, get a shave, a haircut and a wash. With your “views” it's no wonder you spent time in jail. As for your “nuclear defence program”, give us an excuse!
@109 How can you say that expropriation is not good? CFK does it so it must be the best, right?
@111 Is this your latest bit of drivel? A vulture fund tax? Who suggested it to you? Let's analyse your comments. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Vulture fund tax. Do tell us how you tax an organisation that never sets foot in “your” country?
@116 You abuse everyone else. Is this discrimination? Or are you lying? Don't tell us you never bounce your daughter on your lap!
@118 Makes one wonder how you know so much about these “laws”!
@122 Then all argies will be leaving their “country”? If they can find anywhere that will take them. Check out Canada and Denmark. They don't seem to be too picky!
@123 See above.
@124 I understand. “clever, cunning, manipulative and get into position where they cannot be challenged”. You mean fleeing the country and living in Denmark? Did Denmark not used to be the porn capital of the world? Until people turned queer and moved the capital to argieland!
@130 “I'm on fire with fire”. The best solution is sterilisation!
@132 Everybody else does!
@133 The word is “amok”. Although I do understand the temptation.
@137 Wrong. In two or three hundred years, South American places “may” achieve 2nd World status. In other words, similar to Russia and China.
@138 & 139 What you're saying is that argieland is screwed. Oh, goody!
@145 You'll need to do more than “touche”. Grab her handbag and check out her stash. Should be around US$110 million. Let's apply alex's vulture tax. US$27.5 million. Is it applicable to “assets”?
148 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
This is funny: they have a huge flag that says: “clarin lies” hanging outside of the 'Indec-building'
149 yankeeboy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
148. Can you imagine that happening in a civilized country? My gosh how embarassing!
150 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 02:33 pm Report abuse
149@embarassing is the word.
151 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:02 pm Report abuse

Your entire Republican Party buddies all are on record saying the US statistical offices are cooking the books.
152 Joe Bloggs (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:26 pm Report abuse

Is that you TTT? WTF!

153 ElaineB (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
@152 Yes, that is TTT. SSDD. And different name.
154 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:32 pm Report abuse
titti boi.....while I am not party affiliated, I was wondering if you would kindly point me to where “the entire Republican Party” claims the various office are “cooking the books”? I've seen a former CEO make that claim and several Republicans running for office reiterate that claim. But please, show me where the GOP stated that becuase outside a few extremists, I can't find it.
155 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
You think such an assertion by the opposition is funny? They are accusing the US gov of collusion with a political party.

And btw, do you trust LIBOR too?

You people have a lot of gall to talk about Argentina's institutions and the excessive credulity of the argies, when you muppets are being stringed time and time again by your bankers, corporations, and politicians.
156 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:46 pm Report abuse

Anybody mentioned LIBOR...???

I have asked the “Economics Expert Turnips” in here circa ten times about LIBOR.....

Not one ever reacted about LIBOR......

I “Think” they don't know what LIBOR is .....

I would chuckle, if it wasn't so pathetic.....
157 surfer (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
Default II

When not IF
158 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 04:53 pm Report abuse

It's cringeworthy how they just sweep such malfeasance under the rug. Yankeboy in the other thread officialy said he has no problems with banks and corporations breaking the law, cooking the books, commiting crime, stealing, defalcating, and embezzling clients and whole countries. He said he is totally at peace with that.

At least he is honest that he is a crony capitalist, who is in favor of taking from the poor, the uninformed, the unaware, or the powerless, and giving it to the elite. Communism in reverse.

He and all the others here fullfill the crony capilalist motto to perfection:

“Privatize the profits, socialize the losses”.

That's the ethical grid that drives the foreigners here.
159 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 05:08 pm Report abuse
Of course I know what Libor is, it is the opposition to the current government. Think I'm daft or summat! think?
160 surfer (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 05:22 pm Report abuse
“Argentina downplayed the significance of the US Appeals Court ruling in support of investment funds that were ‘discriminated’ in the payment of their sovereign bonds vis-à-vis those that accepted the restructure of the massive 2002 Argentine default.”

Argentina downplayed the significance of the US Appeals Court ruling in support of investment funds that were ‘discriminated’ in the payment of their sovereign bonds vis-à-vis those that accepted the restructure of the massive 2013 Argentine default.

Argentina downplayed the significance of the US Appeals Court ruling in support of investment funds that were ‘discriminated’ in the payment of their sovereign bonds vis-à-vis those that accepted the restructure of the massive 2019 Argentine default.

Argentina downplayed the significance of the US Appeals Court ruling in support of investment funds that were ‘discriminated’ in the payment of their sovereign bonds vis-à-vis those that accepted the restructure of the massive 2023 Argentine default.
161 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 05:41 pm Report abuse
What's the word or opinion of a muppet crony capitalist worth?
162 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 05:47 pm Report abuse
I don't know, you live there, why don't you ask her yourself?
163 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 05:53 pm Report abuse
No muppet, you could accuse Argentina of crony governance, but not crony capitalism. You in the UK and USA are the champions of that. And the whole world recognizes you for it.
164 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
So now you speak for the whole world and pray tell? what qualifies you for that?
Whoops! silly me. megloargiemania, please forget I asked that question! of course your qualified!!!!!!!!!
165 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
@ Raven, noooo, Argentina is just like any European country:

166 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:06 pm Report abuse

Typical Muppet thinking. I'm just repeating what the world already thinks, that's why the EU wants you out of their banking system (by imposing that big tax on banking), that's why the USA is now synonymous with corporate, banking, and all kinds of other high brass criminality. Started all the way in the early 2000s, I've been readimg.
167 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:09 pm Report abuse
here's some more:
168 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:15 pm Report abuse

Almost half of the children in a “1st world” country are poor! In the capital city itself no less. Either the supposed wealth of the UK is a myth, or it should be beyond embarrassing that in a country that claims to be rich 1 in 2 kids are poor in their showcase city.
169 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
Yawn you wetback wannabes should just pay your debts. I apoligize to the wetbacks.....I know you guys work and work hard.
170 briton (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:18 pm Report abuse
168 you are totaly wrong and need to change the subject again,

or you will just dig yourself deeper.
171 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:19 pm Report abuse
168@ there are no poor people in my country, even the poorest unemployed
people have cars.
172 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:24 pm Report abuse
(159) reality check

Not TONY BLIAR's LIEBOR PARTY; you Turnip !!!.......

LIBOR !!!............ I'll spell it to you L - I - B - O - R....

Just a couple of clues.......
1) It has cost the world about 100 times more than the Argentinean default of 2002.
2) LIBOR It's managed from London by Anglos....
3) Those LIBOR Anglo-bosses are ,just now, 19:25 gmt, on their way to their respective dinner tables at London finest restaurants.
4) Most Brits don't have a clue how big the LIBOR humbug is nor how much LIBOR has cost them personallly.

Anyhow............ Always easier to blame the Dagos.......
Brainwash anybody?
173 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
Well what ever you have been reading is wrong. Why does that not suprise me.
There are 27 members of the ESCB (European System of Central Banks)
the UK is not one of them! I lookek it up, suggest you do the same.

So please kindly explain why the EU would want the UK out of something it does not belong too!!!!!
174 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse

You are so proud of your garbage country you have never disclosed where you are from. You don't matter.
175 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:29 pm
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176 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:31 pm Report abuse

Obviously you are American.

Chill out, go to a spa... don't get blown away in the head. hahaha
177 briton (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
Most do not understand libor,
Unless you are in the banking business,

Besides banks have been lending to each other for decades,
probably why banks are so corrupt,

And almost certain, they know about the crash, before we did, and government intervention was either a calculated risk, or a forgone conclusion.
As for the public,
You wont get must of a response from those who do not understand.

To complicated,,
Let’s talk about [impounded little abandoned ships]
178 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:33 pm Report abuse


I take it you understand the concept of humour?
179 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
176@ instead i'll just find an other argie and revenge to him
180 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:35 pm Report abuse

UK “”“NOT A MEMBER!!!!!””
181 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:36 pm
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182 HansNiesund (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:44 pm Report abuse

Interesting article, Tobi, especially the who, how, and why of it. How are similar groups faring in your own neck of the woods?
183 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:45 pm
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184 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:46 pm Report abuse
Argentina 50.000 March against Hunger.
Most worrying however is the “young face” of poverty in the country. Half of the poor-in other words 7 million - are under the age of 18. Two million of these are malnourished and each day 25 children - mostly newly born - die from hunger. That is over 9,000 preventable deaths per year. [1]. In addition, a recent survey carried out by the Ministry for Social Development revealed that 35% of young people between the age of 15-20 years living in marginalised suburbs of Buenos Aires believed that in five years time they would be die as a result of the unemployment, crime and drug addiction that plagues their communities.

Your link pales in comparison, tell me when did the last child die of hunger in the UK, excluding deliberate parental neglect.
185 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:55 pm Report abuse
Hook titti boi as 181 is better known because his momma pulled him from her tit too earlier resorts to lesser used words from his thesaurus and sentence structure. He used to be truth telling troll.....but became African when the RGs could not buy off the Ghana courts. Most trolls are embarrassed to be RG and some fled their guzz (Europe) and pirate hunter (illegally in Canada)
186 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:56 pm Report abuse
(177) briton
You say:
“You wont get much of a response from those who do not understand....”

I say:
I wasn't expecting anything from you boy....., anything at all....
But I was expecting some “Wise Words” about the LIBOR humbug to be send to us by the likes of Mrs. ElaineB, from her beloved British Airways business class seat.....
Or from Mr. Beef from his beloved Emirates Airlines first class seat.....
Or from Mr. Yankeeboy our American Economic Sciences prodigy (and shoes salesman) from Washington D.C.

(178) reality check
I understood your humor alright.....
You obviously didn't understand mine....
But LIBOR is no joke, matey... Time for you Brits to realize it...
187 HansNiesund (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse

I'm sorry, was somebody defending crooked bankers round here? Or is this just another attempt to convince us that being a deadbeat is a relative concept, i.e that it's entirely acceptable if you can point at a bigger deadbeat?
188 briton (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
well, you cant win all the time,

what you expected and what you got was two different things,

sorry to have didapointed you.
189 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
188 briton
You never dissapoint me boy....
you do exactly what it says on the lid....
190 briton (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
191 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
(187) HansNiesund

No sir....
I'm not attempt to convince you that being a deadbeat is a relative concept.

The LIBOR humbug is clearly showing all of us that the UK is 100 times a bigger deadbeat than Argentina....

The LIBOR humbug is clearly showing all of us that the UK is 100 times more economically corrupt than Argentina.....

The LIBOR humbug is clearly showing all of us that the UK citizens are so brainwashed that they don't even want to “Think” about the LIBOR humbug.

Nothing “Relative” about the LIBOR humbug.........
192 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:24 pm Report abuse
Sorry, read it again, nothing at all humourous about it.
As for LIBOR, those involved have got away with the greatest act of larceny in modern times.
The law is supposedly being altered to prevent it happening again in the future, shame UK legislaters can not act retrospectively, I would love to see them locked up and the key thrown away. They profited from peoples, Brits, misery and got away with it, scum does not even come close to describing them.
193 HansNiesund (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:27 pm Report abuse

So “bigger” and “100 times more” aren't relative concepts?
194 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:30 pm Report abuse
how was “100 times” calculated?
195 Think (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:34 pm Report abuse
(192) reality check


And now you can go back to your indignation against those morally bankrupt Argentinean dirty Dagos that cheated the world for 100 times lesss than your London City boys.......

Did I understand it correctly?
196 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
First off, where did the dirty dagos come from? same place as the gringos I suppose.
Secondly, whether it is corrupt politicians there or corrupt bankers here, what does it matter, both are as despicable as the other!
Am I pissed of that they appear to have got away with it? you bet your sweet life I am.
Are you pissed off that yours appear to be getting away with it? If not? why not?
197 ChrisR (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:02 pm Report abuse
Oh Dear!

I am about to upset the poor broke argies on here.

You see that LIBOR is a tool used by the banks for overnight interest rate earnings on their liquid position.

If someone has sufficient money, in real money not argecrap pesos, they can ‘park’ it on the LIBOR market for whoever long they need to.

I did that when we had some real spare cash, the only downside is that there are no guarantees that you will get your entire money back if the bank that is using your money folds. You are of course way above the bank limit anyway.

And then gold started to move up so I moved out of LIBOR into gold sovereigns via a UK trader and did even better than on LIBOR and I held the gold in one of my safes, so no real risk there.

So you could say I benefitted from the LIBOR scandal without knowing.

Would I do it again? Of course I would; the argies would too if:

1) they could convince a trader to deal on their behalf (bit difficult that with the shit pesos and the fact that you are Argies);

2) they could bring themselves to trust anybody outside of their beloved country;

3) they understood what the hell I am on about.

(only a little list Guzz, but you understand I have little to work with with the argies.)

198 briton the arse (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:13 pm
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199 reality check (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:27 pm Report abuse
G'nite all.
In the words of Dave ALLEN, “May your god go with you.”
200 toooldtodieyoung (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:38 pm Report abuse
183 Hook

Take no notice of Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos. He is a a troll with very, VERY overinflated sense of self worth. He is on here arguing with people that he thinks are beneath him and who are “A waste of my time” and “You don't matter”..............

Well if they are then why are you on this site then? why don't you try and get your mental stimulation elsewhere?

Guzz has been dropped on his head too many times as a child and Think Thinks he has something to say............a word to the wise...It's no good trying to talk when you can't be understood..... You're just making noise!!!!!
201 Ayayay (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
Gorgio writes that if it's popular, that means it's right.


New at democracy?

The average person usually substantially incorrect.
Look at your friends in the U.S.:

20% of people polled by Gallup believe the sun revolves around the Earth. (asked carefully and given plenty of time to respond.)

Imagine how smart the AVERAGE person is! Europeens responded same.
Countries with less higher rated education (ahem!) would answer with much HIGHER percentages.

That's why DELIBERATIVE DEMOCRACY is Grrreat! Both Spaniards and Greeks voted for 'austerity' governments (socialists lost for first time in decades!) even with public marches!

But if you're just mad because someone has more than you and you're waving “the mob” at em--

They don't think about it. Maybe if you're lucky, for a moment that eventually becomes comedy, but enjoying life is more attractive.

Abundance-minded, middle-class families who move towards greater opportunity have always been the safest. (:
202 briton the arse (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:54 pm
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203 toooldtodieyoung (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 08:58 pm Report abuse
201 Ayayay...........Ha!! that should fool them LOL.

Actually, you're wrong!!!

The world is held up by the four pillars of Islam..............
204 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
@298 SussieUSA

“hey, try to meet me in the USA if you are a real USA citizen.
I can hit your head and make it spin more than 100 times!”

Everyone else on here is having a proper intellectual exchange, right or wrong.

You, however, just make idle threats and taunts like a schoolyard bully, right?

Do you really want us to find you, you meant what you said, right?

Tell you what, if you really live in the USA, make it easy for us.

You still insist you live in Tempe, correct?

You can show us you do:

Go to a recognisable landmark in Tempe, Tempe City Hall, you can't miss it.
Take a picture of yourself (face obscured if you like) holding this week's East Valley Tribune.

Open a PhotoBucket account under a fake name (Sussie??) and post the picture.

Give us the link on Mercopress, then we'll know you are really in the USA.

If you choose not to do this, we can assume you having lying all this time. Not unexpected, I grant you.

Can't wait for the excuses...

205 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:24 pm
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206 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
Really? that's not what God seems to think.

- 7.7 earthquake off western North America
- 100 thousand flee tsunami warning in Hawaii
- 2 feet of snow predicted for mid-USA
- “Megastorm” threatnes 65 million people and multiple cities

Seems it is another country that is getting some warnings... that they should repent, and soon.
207 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
206@ God doesn't exist, neither does Tooth Fairy nor Santa

no wonder you catholics have so many problems, you leave everything in the hands of 'god'
208 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:43 pm Report abuse

God is what you make of it. To me God is Nibiru. The result is the same, you cannot fight God (whether a deity, mother Nature, or Alien intelligence).

Repent, and Enki may be merciful even to Muppets.
209 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 09:58 pm
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210 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
Repent Anglos, Annunaki not pleased with you.
211 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:15 pm
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212 Guzz (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:18 pm Report abuse
I bet you do laugh, incontrollable little twitches of your mouth, fully synched with the tic of the right eye-lid ...
213 Hook (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:21 pm Report abuse
212@haha, that's the best message you've written so far, keep up the good work!
214 yankeeboy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:23 pm Report abuse
212. That's exactly what I saw CFk do at Harvard right before she stormed out.
215 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:27 pm
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216 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:34 pm Report abuse
I guess God was not happy with argentines this summer when the floods and rain came. 2004 he really hated Muslims with a Tsunami that killed 200.000 Muslims. Or Chileans in 1960 that killed almost 1700. Or the Japanese in 2011 earthquake. The stupidity that flows from your mouth only pales in comparison to cuntina kirchner. We get these storms EVERY fall. Last Halloween we had two feet of snow. What a moron pretending to be an African.....but I can't blame you for hiding you are argentien
217 surfer (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 10:37 pm Report abuse
Actually believe the Argentine people will be relieved once the Govt. starts to live up to its obligations regarding these bonds.

Bit like a mate who never gets a round of drinks in, but is happy to have others buy them, embarrassing really.
218 Ayayay (#) Oct 28th, 2012 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
In modern Hawaii, a big tsunam gets hours notice and ppl gather to watch!!

They're just keeping drunk tourists nice n safe in Oahu, which gets big surf. Renegades go out to RIDE EM BRAH :)
219 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:39 am Report abuse

You simpleton, have you not noticed that EVERY nation on Earth has had major disasters last 10 years, but ONE?

Australian floods and super cyclone Yasi
Brazilian Hurrican “Catarina” and floods.
Major floods in Peru, Venezuela, Bolivia
Earthquake in Chile
Earthquake in New Zealand, Iran
Tsunami in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Malaysa
Earthquake/Tsunami in Japan
Hurricane “Katrina” in the United States
Super heat wave in Europe 2003
Super storms in UK this year
Forest fires in Russia
Earthquakes in China
Fires in Israel
Earthquakes in Turkey
Earthquake in Haiti
Hurricane “Wilma” in Mexico

etc, etc, etc...

Every nation on Earth in the last 10 years has had a major natural disaster with significant death toll, big countries and small countries.


A nation that is trully favoured by the Gods, the Annunaki, and Nibiru.


Argentina. The chosen ones.

Or how do you explain that natural disasters have ocurred all over the planet, and all around Argentina (even a recent really bad coastal storm that somehow hit Uruguay yet missed Buenos Aires.. hmm)... yet there seems to be some sort of “divine force field” protecting us?

And Argentina is not a small country. Covering a significant portion of the planet, it is impossible that a major catastrophe cannot hit.

Yet it has not happened.

We are protected because we are good people. You are not. Ask yourselves why.
220 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:44 am Report abuse
you name but 10, unlucky nations,
their are about 199 nations,

perhaps your man upstaires is saving your argentina for the biggy.

its nothing but fate, things that happen, are meant to happen.

so be sure, yours is yet to come,..
221 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:04 am Report abuse
You know the saying:

'God is everywhere, but he has his office in Buenos Aires.'

Don't think so.
222 brit abroad (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:20 am Report abuse
oh dear Giorgio!!!!!!

and i thought you were meant to be clever!!! Clearly not if you actually believe in The Divine!

Anyway, 1 minute on Google and: The July 2007 Argentine winter storm resulted from the interaction of an area of low pressure systems across central Argentina and the entry of a massive polar cold snap during the 6–8 July 2007; it was the worst winter of Argentina in almost forty years. Severe snowfalls and blizzards affected the country.[5] In Patagonia, several lakes were frozen.[6] The cold snap advanced from the south towards the central zone of the country during Friday, July 6, continuing its displacement towards the north during Saturday, July 7 and Sunday, July 8. On Monday July 9, the simultaneous presence of very cold air, above the average levels of the atmosphere as in the surface, gave place to the occurrence of snowfalls even in localities where snow is very rare. This phenomenon left at least 46 people dead in Argentina,[7] six in Chile,[8] and 3 in Bolivia.[9]

And before you start talking death toll numbers, i think one should define your understanding of “significant” and “major”! knowing you it will be anything with a death toll over 47.
223 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:27 am Report abuse
@93 Frank
Thank you for that link.
I knew of Felix Salmon's bet and I was curious to find out what was happening with it ... you know, some people forget their bet when they lose it. I was glad to find that Salmon fairly recalled that bet and he admitted he was wrong ... just to follow with a lenghty presentation of his opinions that IMHO will be proved wrong again.

Mr. Salmon pretends to know much more than he actually does ;-) and his worries for Armageddon (2012 has still few days left for it LOL) soon to follow the tragic, unbelievable, dumb, unexpected [I agree with him in this... ONLY ;-)], unrespectful to the US government, etc. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals' decision are ... a little bit exaggerated.

VERY interesting (and upsetting and worrisome for me) are Salmon's final sentences. That could be an easy, effective way for tomorrow's big fraud (and it's today's blackmail for some players in the sovereign debt business: Salmon and some friends of his seem badly scared)
224 Raven (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:27 am Report abuse

Natural disasters can strike no matter what religion or how ''good'' you are. The assumption that Argentina has not been hit by a natural disaster because they have been ''good'' is incorrect.

Unless you are are telling us that you only get hit by natural disaster if you are ''bad''. How does this explain famine in Africa?
225 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:31 am Report abuse

I'd like to know what the excuse is for all the heat related deaths in Europe or the USA. Aren't you all super-rich and all supposed to have air con and cars? How could you possibly get heat-stroke then if all Europeans and Americans live in climate-controled palaces?

Your “info” says it all, worst cold weather in 40 years and only 47 deaths. In Europe and the USA it would be hundreds. And when was the last time a heatwave caused thousands of dead in Argentina?

We have heating systems and a/c at home. In fact I know no one that doesn't have either.

And most of those 47 were homeless. Unlike heat waves, where the worst part is in the day when you are awake, the worst part of a cold wave is in the long, dark winter nights. At least the excuse there is they were sleeping... what's the excuse for the heat deaths?
226 Ayayay (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:37 am Report abuse
I know there's only 1 Arg in Arg that reg posts here (thats why I have r/Argentina) but *Dear Lord eyes* hopefully that ^ isn't representative religious-backwardsness.

I am hoping for a (cutely gov-challenged) nice Latin utopia.
227 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:43 am Report abuse

Do not worry, no one beats the Anglo-saxon churches in religious pixilation
228 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:24 am Report abuse
@140 Captain Poppy

your statistical info on US Supreme Court are interesting: I've already posted them on our Italian holdouts' forum (we are not familiar with the US judiciary and we are trying to understand IF, WHEN, WHAT Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton can do with the Supreme Court to hamper the CofA decision).

And about:
“I think it's time for the World bank and WTO and what not get together and agree on how to intercept funds from countries ...
..., the need to pay up.”
I fully agree. I have been thinking and recommending that also in writing for some years ... but goverments and international finance organizations have not shown yet real interest in that (big mistake in my opinion).
May be courts rulings can eventually inspire and urge international “new rules” .
I am not very optimistic but ... who knows ...
229 ptolemy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:58 am Report abuse
Interesting points , but it is much harder to make a entire population “pay up; ” one person, one corporation, yes.., but not an entire country. Not everyone would have voted,(etc.,) for the particular government in question. It's a sticky situation. The US Supreme court may a take a while to render a verdict in this case.
230 Ayayay (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 05:13 am Report abuse
Thanks Argi Giorgi, but i don't plan on visiting the U.S. South anytime soon.

I am/was hoping Arg to be the 'more evolved' destination in UNASUR, like the West Coast is the higher frequency U.S. (and where Youtube comes from!)
231 LEPRecon (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:46 am Report abuse
@225 Tobias

What on Earth is your post have to do with the Argentine government wanting to take their case to the US Supreme Court?

Tut, tut Tobais, anyone would think that you were trying to distract the thread from yet another public humiliation of your government.
232 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:00 am Report abuse
@231 LEP

Speaking of Argentine humiliation, anything new on Libertad?? Anyone else keel-hauled as scapegoat?

Anything else seized for arrears ?? South Africa port problems perhaps ??
233 toooldtodieyoung (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:24 am Report abuse
227 Giorgio_O._Tsoukalos

Oh dear!!! All your posts show is your lamentable lack of intellect. You disagree with other posters on here but don't have a point of view of your own. You hide behind or reinforce other people point of view without telling anyone what yours is...... It's a text book case of Psycho-narisism.

You've changed your name so many times on this website, I wonder what you are afriad of..... whether someone will discover the real you or whether you will.

Oh and a word to the wise. We all know that the bible is nothing more than a “rattling good read” we also know that all the natural features described in the bible around Nazereth and Bethlehem do not exist. It has also been proved that the books in the bible were NOT written by the people they say wrote them. So “your” god either:-

1/ does not exist ( you can fool all of the people some of the time )


2/ Is too busy killing babies in Africa to answer anyone's prayers

Either way you slice it, the Catholic church is an old and corrupt institution, founded on lies and heresay.
234 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:32 am Report abuse
Your post sounds a it like one of GOT's.

“Oh and a word to the wise. We all know that the bible is nothing more than a “rattling good read” we also know that all the natural features described in the bible around Nazereth and Bethlehem do not exist. It has also been proved that the books in the bible were NOT written by the people they say wrote them.”

Are you sure “We all know” and agree with your statement.

But this is a distraction andis not the place or topic to take this further
235 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:53 am Report abuse
(228) Acchiappatuoipropriladriprimadiromperelescatoleal’Argentina….
You (and Poppy) say:
“I think it's time for the World bank and WTO and what not get together and agree on how to intercept funds from countries ....... I fully agree. I have been thinking and recommending that also in writing for some years ... but goverments and international finance organizations have not shown yet real interest in that ......

I say:
Did you ever “Think” about why “Goverments and ”Inter-Guvernamental International Finance Organizations” have not any interest in that...?
They don’t want that Boomerang to hit them in the neck.
Just look at their External Debt today…..
UK = 390% of their GDP
Holland = 344% of their GDP
Hong Kong = 334% of their GDP
Belgium = 266% of their GDP
Germany = 142 % of their GDP
Italy = 108% of their GDP
USA = 103% of their GDP

Un bacio grande grande da l'Argentina
El Think
236 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:42 am Report abuse
I see you've all had productive weekends.

235 Think

Loving your use of stats. The figures you quote are completely meaningless in the context you are using them. It's a bit like splitting a balance sheet in half and then attempting to laugh at those with the bigger numbers.
237 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:51 am Report abuse
No one has a chance against Ella Think she knows fully,multi foreign languages as English,Spanish,Portuguese,Norwegian,Italian,Chinese,Hindi,Urdu,Arabic.
238 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:59 am Report abuse
It's not just the size of the debt that is the key factor is the ability to service the debt.
So as usual think just showing us a list or a graph does not really prove anything
239 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:11 am Report abuse
236 Idlehands

Good for you!.....You seem to “love” everything I say.......
Maybe because you are not sayin' anything.
Except parroting your accountant mates from the WSJ, the FT and the Economists...:
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2003)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2004)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2005)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2006)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2007)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2008)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2009)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2010)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2011)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2012)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (2013)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (20xx)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (20xx)
Argentina is going into bankrupcy very, very soon (20xx)
240 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:13 am Report abuse
Think if that's the reason then why do they not fully forgive a nation's debt as a bankruptcy?
241 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:16 am Report abuse
239 Think

So what are YOU saying? You've posted financial data again without any reference to what you believe it means or what point you are making. So tell us. Why have you posted those statisitics?

Yet again you are either misrepresneting what the data means or don't know/understand what the data means.
242 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:26 am Report abuse
All those pesos.....all that time....oh dear...what to do.....Origami!!!!
243 Doveoverdover (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:53 am Report abuse
@241 The assessment that Argentina is about to go bankrupt very, very soon as predicted annually by a number of influential commentators has proven to be wrong in the past and will continue to be wrong in the future.

Not much data there to be interpreted.
244 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:56 am Report abuse
243 Doveoverdover

You've completely missed the point of the exchange. The data in question was in post 235
245 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:12 am Report abuse
A good link posted by Trunce
246 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:32 am Report abuse
(241) Idlehands
You ask:
“So tell us...... Why have you posted those statisitics?”
I say:
Because....., as my name says... I want you to “Think”.

(243) Cmdr. McDod
Your usual insertion of some good ol' common sense on those pages is always warmly welcomed.
247 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:37 am Report abuse
Your ability to service the debt is very much dependant on the mechanics that rates you AAA and then lends you money to do just so. Lets say the market would move to China. Lets say the Chinese creates their own rating system. Lets say you aren't AAA anymore. Imagine an Argentina with trillions in debt...
248 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:47 am Report abuse
246 Think

...or in other words you have no idea of the meaning of the data yourself so want others to think about what it means?
249 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:53 am Report abuse
Let's say the sun started to move around the earth, let's say the earth rotated around the moon, let's say argentina decided to pay back the money they borrowed.......let's say........
250 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:57 am Report abuse
We are talking about what is happening at the moment.!
251 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:05 pm Report abuse
Guzz seems to believe that country risk ratings are based on anti argentine prejudice rather than their repeated failure to honour debts (among numerous other reasons).
252 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:08 pm Report abuse
Well, the market HAS moved to China. The Chinese HAVE made their own rating system (check UK rating :))
253 Welsh Wizard (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:13 pm Report abuse
Yes, the Government will appeal. This is expected. The word on the ground from legal experts in the US (with whom I have spoken) is that the decision will not be overturned.

The following blog sets things out in layman’s terms ( and is written by someone who did not support or think that the decision would pan out as it has):

Please read it as it deals with the inns and outs of the decision and the commercial position. This is what we should be debating as this is a legal argument with a legal solution...

Some on here would say that there as some Turnips amongst us, undoubtedly this is true but if people refuse to debate the actual issue (a nicety of law) then the whole thing is a turnip patch.
254 Santa Fe (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:36 pm Report abuse
250 - The Chinese have rating agencies, send us a link to a recent downgrading of the UK then not the 2011 by one rating house to AA-
255 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:44 pm Report abuse
Nice try Guzz but not very convincing.
256 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:51 pm Report abuse
(248) Idlehands (#)
You say:
“...or in other words you have no idea ......”

I say:
You always say Mr. Idlehands but I learn..., I learn..., I learn... ;-)
257 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:53 pm Report abuse
I never posted any links...

As you can see, 2011 didn't only see you drop to AA-, but also to A+ with a negative outlook... ;)
258 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:00 pm Report abuse
More rain in BA, doesn't look too good for the wheat crop and I hear the soy crop will be of very poor quality if they can get it all planted.
2 years of bad crops
I wonder what that will do to exports?
Barley soup para todos.
259 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:02 pm Report abuse
While you are here predicting natural disasters in SA, nature is busy in USA...
Wheat crop in BA?
Enjoy the weather...
260 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:08 pm Report abuse
Guzz nature is pretty busy in BA too

Problem is Arg economy depends on having good crops this year, and were crowing about it about 6-8 weeks ago, rut ro, doesn't look like it is going to turn out the way they thought it would.

BTW do you know how many building have collapsed in Arg this year? I think you can add another 2 this weekend.

Barley para they have those signs up in BA yet?
261 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:14 pm Report abuse
By the way, Dagong downgraded you lot to A ;)
262 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:19 pm Report abuse
261 Guzz

So what - how does that affect the UK?
263 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:23 pm Report abuse
The grading of a super power's debt is irrelevant. They keep buying and paying less than you can post the same message 50X and it doesn't change a thing.
Argentina needs to ask Bolivia why they are paying 13pts lower than they have to.... although I may be off a bit the last 9% plunge on Friday hasn't been calculated in yet.
264 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:24 pm Report abuse
Well, more and more developing nations seeking their way to Dagong, means that the trust in the 3 big rating agencies is lower and lower. This will mean that in a future, you wont get as good interest as you do today, something that is crucial to be able to honour your debts...
265 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
More delays in planting the soy crops with all that flooding. Who said God hates the USA?
Perhaps mushrooms and moss will be this years bumper crop.
266 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:37 pm Report abuse
China's central bank and regulators CBRC and CSRC have yet to support Dagong openly. On the contrary, they seem to be organising their own rating system far removed from Guan. NAFMII - an agency under the State Council, created in 2007 to oversee and regulate China's nascent bond market - has set up tools of its own. Last December it launched China Credit Rating Co and China Bond Issuance Co to “regulate credit rating behaviour and improve the credibility of credit rating”.

And while Guan likes to promote Dagong as the Chinese rating agency, he often fails to mention that he is not alone in a very competitive and crowded market.

Dagong has a 20% share at home, down from 60% in 2006. He is losing ground to S&P, Moody's and Fitch, which have formed joint ventures with other domestic agencies. While he claims he is losing share because he refuses to sell a rating, industry insiders claim the opposite. “Dagong works to please the government,” says an ex-employee from a foreign agency in Beijing. “They are willing to give a high rating to get the client. They tend to rate higher than foreign competitors to get the business.”

Many also question certain aspects of Guan's methodology, which they say is slightly biased to defend China's interests. “He seems to be hypersensitive to US risk and a bit blind to domestic Chinese risk,”

says Patrick Chovanec, an economist and professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

Industry insiders suggest wearily that he has no contacts with the countries he has been rating and that certain ratings in China defy rational thinking. “How do you explain that Dagong gives a better rating to an unknown city in China than to the US, or an AAA to the heavily indebted Ministry of Railways?” says one analyst.
267 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
264 Guzz

What's the relevance of “developing nations seeking their way to Dagong”? They don't lend us money.
268 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
264. Are they going to China for ratings? Huh? You think people trust anything that comes out of China more than what comes out of the US EU UK? You have got to be kidding!
You are blinded by jealousy of your betters.
How amusing.
269 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:54 pm Report abuse
Maybe not, but the Chinese are buying your national debts, and when it comes to interest rates...
270 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:56 pm Report abuse
Now I'm aware how financially illiterate the likes of Think and Guzz are I actually look forward to when they post some data or links implying some greatness towards Argentina or some catastrophe towards somewhere else (usually the UK or the USA)

Bottom line guys – no accurate data is going to place the Argentine economy in a better position than the UK or the USA no matter how much you hope.

It’s a bit like when those that claim to have a new unbreakable proof that the World Trade Centre buildings were not brought down by two enormous, packed and fully fuelled aircraft flying into them at full speed.
271 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 01:58 pm Report abuse

Even though it is biased, it explains a lot...
272 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:10 pm Report abuse
(270) Idlehands

You say:
“Bottom line guys – no accurate data is going to place the Argentine economy in a better position than the UK or the USA no matter how much you hope”

I say:
You are absolutely correct...; at least for the next fifty years...

But then, I say further:
Bottom line guys – no accurate data is going to place the Argentine economy in such a bad position as decipted by you on these matter how much you hope.
273 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:19 pm Report abuse
Nobody is measuring size here, if you want to do that, talk to conq, poppy or yanqui. I'm merely saying; change the rules of the game, if not for us, do it for your kids...
274 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:21 pm Report abuse
Where have I “decipted” anything about the Argentine economy that is so bad that it hasn't or couldn't come true?

I think you need to keep a better track of who posters are and what they've said.
275 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:24 pm Report abuse
Guzz !

please be careful on your comment times ,don't write them everytime whenever come to your mind ,might you could be signed as eternal jobless,

in many times,don't forget to decorate with YouTube links adressing to frivoluos brains.

you are in true way ....... keep on compress.....!
276 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:24 pm Report abuse
Guzz, That article was written a year ago and none of his brilliant predictions have come true.

I have a much better track record here....
277 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:30 pm Report abuse
I'm having difficulties understanding your posts...
278 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:38 pm Report abuse
(274) Idlehands

If you read my post (272) you will find out that I was referring to “You Guys”, not to “You” in particular........

On the other hand, on your post (270), you specifically name my name as one that posts ” Data or links implying some greatness towards Argentina or some catastrophe towards somewhere else (usually the UK or the USA)“

I never did neither...
So I would suggest that it is you, Mr. Idlehands who ”Needs to keep a better track of who posters are and what they've said.”.......
279 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:46 pm Report abuse
Guzz !

280 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:48 pm Report abuse
That didn't help a bit...
281 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:02 pm Report abuse
Guzz !

then...Php Storm 5.0.3
282 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:31 pm Report abuse
Just saw the 1st of many lawsuits filed over underpayment of the Inflation linked bonds...
I hear its been as much as U$20B over the years..
Barley para todos
283 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
278 Think - so now you are claiming you post links to data you don't understand for no reason at all? I'd just assumed they were to either show Argentina in a good light or the UK/USA in a bad one.
284 Mikarita Yatemata (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
Leave the rest of the world alone Englishmen, why can't you do this?
285 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
(284) Yamimoto Nokamina

Regresión a la infancia?
286 Mikarita Yatemata (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:52 pm Report abuse
287 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
282 yankeeboy

Got any links? - that had to catch up with them eventually as the INDEC data had become a joke.
288 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:10 pm Report abuse
yanqui is a self proclaimed Nostradamus, he needs no links...
289 Think (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:10 pm Report abuse
Eltobi Karadura :-)
290 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:17 pm Report abuse
Aiba l'Abala :)
291 Idlehands (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
A link for you all.

NB Has Argentina paid a single dime for the expropriation of YPF yet - or are they hoping the Spanish will just forget about it? You'd assume they would grossly under value it and just pay that - but no - they don't want to pay at all.
292 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
The lawsuit, filed in London, is emblematic of the mistrust Argentina has sowed since it fired statisticians in 2007 and began reporting consumer prices that economists say are inaccurate. That’s shut the nation out of its own bond market and caused trading in notes tied to consumer prices to dry up. Unable to sell debt overseas since its record default in 2001, Argentina has also imposed currency controls and seized oil producer YPF SA in the past year as it faces borrowing costs that are twice the average in emerging markets.

I guess at this point it is easier to go after JPM but it is agood basis to start suing Arg next...
293 ChrisR (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 04:41 pm Report abuse
@291 & 292

The report covered all the significant tricks thet TMBOA has tried in the years since 2007.

She is going to get what she deserves and has worked for any time soon.
294 Troy Tempest (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
@288, 289, 290 Guzz and Think

yanqui is a self proclaimed Nostradamus, he needs no links...

Eltobi Karadura :-)


Aiba l'Abala :)

What alternate universe are these trolls inhabiting???

295 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:00 pm Report abuse
We, you , them ,
Can argue till doomsday,

But sooner or later, CFK will be made to pay argentines debts,

After all,
If you let one little fish, escape the net,
All the world indebted fishes will escape the net.

Then where will we be.?

296 Anbar (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
“I never did neither... ”

Looks like El-Thinko MKII is on the keyboard this evening.

When does the properly literate one come back on shift?
297 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:05 pm Report abuse
If you had påaid your debts, how come you owe more and more avery year?
Oh, you borrow more than you pay, you say?
So you borrow to pay, plus a little extra do you?
Is that paying your debts, or is that the system sending money around?

298 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
changing the subject does not make you look any better,
facts are fact,
if you dont pay your debts ,,,,,,,,,,

so i shall repeat,
sooner or later you will be made to pay your debts,

ye cant pass the buck, we are on about CFK not the UK at the moment.
299 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
Sure Briton, and some day, you will be forced to pay yours.... ;)
300 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:38 pm Report abuse
And so will the rest of the world,

But at this moment in time, CFK and Argentina are in the privileged and envious position, and under the worlds spotlight, to show the world , that it [argentina] can lead by example,
And pay her debts,

You never know, perhaps the world will follow your example,

But you will never know, until you pay up, will you.

justa thoughta
301 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:45 pm Report abuse
Briton :)))
I can understand that some billions owed by Arg to a hedge fond is more interesting for you than UK's trillions owed to China... I can also understand why you choose to talk about Arg.
Fact is, pay your debt and shut up, nobody is listening :)
302 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:51 pm Report abuse
301 Guzz
Fact is, pay your debt and shut up, nobody is listening
we are in complete agreement old boy,
pay up or shut up.
can you prove the british owes china one trillion pounds,
or is this another CFK instigated lies.
303 Pirat-Hunter (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
Argentina should bring Joseph Stiglitz ex-chief economist of the World Bank to testify on Argentina's behalf. I am sure he can make it all clear since he took part in the negotiations, I consider him to be an expert witness and the only man who can put and end to Argentina's economic witch hunt. Outsider are welcome to fix their country before talking about Argentina we Have no WMD nor do we train CIA, mossad nor mi6 terrorists, funny to see the terrorist supporting the BS cooked up for lemmings. cat=business&type=article
304 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 06:59 pm Report abuse
& 302

Numbers please...not babbling .
305 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
Lets say, hypothetically, that I could proove my claims, what would that mean to you?
306 agent999 (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:03 pm Report abuse

But who's debt is overdue for payment
307 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:14 pm Report abuse
don't be silly... Trillions!! How far do you intend to go with your debt before paying? Quadrillions? Who will lend you the cash? From where? How to back the loan with effectiv value? HOW TO BLOODY PAY IT???
308 toooldtodieyoung (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:14 pm Report abuse
234 agent999

“Your post sounds a it like one of GOT's” An Insult!!!!!!!!

I'm nearly annoyed!! Well as it seems you're right, I'll let this one slide.

But answer me this, How DID the UK get dragged into the Argentine flag ship being siezed in a North African port for an unpaid debt to an American Hedge fund?

All this “The UK and USA coluding together” to “Illegally infringe on the sovereignty of the Argentine people”

Surely this between TMBOA / Ol' Turkey neck / KFC / The Harpy and the USA. So far as I was aware, it had nothing to do with us, Or is this just laughing boy Timerman dragging us into it as well 'cos he really doesn't like us?
309 Tinx (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 07:14 pm Report abuse

What is the UK Banking Liabilities as % GDP ?
310 surfer (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:05 pm Report abuse
Argentina rated B by Standard & Poor’s

This is 5 levels below investment grade believe it or not.

Really if any outfit is looking to invest, can you afford to lose your entire investment or spend the next 20 years in legal action to recover .

Only suitable for vultures.
311 yankeeboy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
Only suitable for vultures.

Seems like a circle...

deja vu 8 yrs later
312 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:16 pm Report abuse
304 Tinx
And whatever you may be on about ??
305 Guzz (
Lets say, hypothetically, that I could prove my claims, what would that mean to you,

It would prove two things,
1, the exact and itemised amount that we owe china, [we dare you]
2, it would mean exactly what argentines debts mean to you,
Probably nothing,, but an interesting conversation ??

309 Tinx (#)

What is the UK Banking Liabilities as % GDP ?,

A very silly but hypothetically intelligent question,
My reply is equally silly,

I have no idea, but if you, know the exact liabilities and dates, of the United Kingdom,
Then would be the most cleverest and interesting man on the planet, let alone this blogg,
Any other questions ??..

but this is about your debt, and a poor little abandoned l;onley little ship,
that needs help.

please pay, and take him home. lol.
313 Mikarita Yatemata (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:17 pm Report abuse
Euros are losers, can't change this.
314 surfer (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:21 pm Report abuse
Argentinian Bonds sales pitch:

“Past Performance IS a Guarantee of Future Results”
315 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
If it is, hypothetically, to hear your excuses, I wont bother...
316 surfer (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:30 pm Report abuse
Barclays Capital’s Alejandro Grisanti :

'Holders of the Republic’s 2005 and 2010 restructured securities (New York and UK law, including GDP warrants) could eventually face potential default should Judge Thomas Griesa’s ruling is upheld, unless Argentina decides to concede to the holdouts.'
317 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:32 pm Report abuse
315 Guzz
then dont bother guzz,

but remember, it WAS your question not mine.
318 surfer (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:33 pm Report abuse
Forgot to add the following:

319 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:36 pm Report abuse
You found your excuses before even looking for the answer...

Tomate un mate y avivate....
320 briton (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:40 pm Report abuse
no exuse,
your question,
my reply,
321 Condorito (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:00 pm Report abuse
320 posts on this topic...that is just ridiculous.
322 ChrisR (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:41 pm Report abuse
308 toooldtodieyoung

The UK got ‘involved’ with the Singer lawsuit because Singers’ companies are registrerd in the Caymans (UK) and had a judgement in the favour against the AG government, who appealed and lost that as well.

So it is not just the NY Courts exclusively.

The Law Lord who presided over the case was of course, educated in the UK, and Ghana has a UK system for all of their courts.

The comment made by a Ghanaian Government Official that they were embarrassed by AG sending over two ministers to basically tell them to call their Law Lord off, has been reported by the AG government as a victory!!!

You do have to wonder just when these idiots are going to understand the basics of international law. As for them going to the US Supreme Court over discriminating against the two classes of bond-holders, I will believe that when it happens. Seems like another bullet train announcement and just as effective to me.
323 Guzz (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:54 pm Report abuse
We do understand international law;
Everything for you, nothing for us.
We are guilty, you are innocent.

We just don't agree with your version of justice... so we just change it, like it or not :)
324 surfer (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:58 pm Report abuse
Back on topic:

Argentina now being referred to as having a 'Dead' economic model
Vulture grade
325 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:50 pm Report abuse
'We do understand international law;
Everything for you, nothing for us'

Guzz....who is YOU and who are US?

How is it that Brazil moved to the number 5 spot in GDP's by playing into “our” system. Colombia just over took Argentina as South America's #2 GDP. Chile works just fine in international trade.....Bolivia.....even Bolivia has a better credit rating than Argentina........Are those countries the US?

Most countries attitude to handle international trade: Smile to their face, quietly walk away and say “fuck you” to yourself, as you smile to bank.

Argentina's International trade attitude: Fuck off! and you BETTER trade with me on my rules and like they slowly go broke and run off crying to the WTO....UN...UNSC....and tell IMF to screw off.

One day Argentina will learn how to play nice n the sandbox......most other SA countries have.......even Venezuela knows when to keep it's mouth shut.
326 surfer (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 12:15 am Report abuse
Headline from allAfrica news, bang on the money;

“Ghana: Seized Argentine Ship, a Victim of Decades of Failed Economic Management”
327 Mikarita Yatemata (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 12:25 am Report abuse

“How is it that Brazil moved to the number 5 spot in GDP's by playing into “our” system. Colombia just over took Argentina as South America's #2 GDP. Chile works just fine in international trade.....Bolivia.....even Bolivia has a better credit rating than Argentina........Are those countries the US?”

Illusions, smokes, and mirrors. Where the rest of Latin America is today, we have already been: 1990s.

They will collapse soon, including Chile, Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Uruguay, etc. It's just the nature of the crony capitalist European-North American model.

We are wise from experience, never to trust again what Europeans or Americans claim we should do, and in fact to do the opposite.
328 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 12:38 am Report abuse
@322 ChrisR

With reference to your welcome reply to a post on mine few days ago, I can reassure you:
it is crystal clear to me that after those long, complicated, disputed proceedings UK judiciary eventually gave a final judgment in favour of NML, in particular confirming that Argentina completly waived its sovereign immunity on its assets.
I wish they can make a good use of the UK judgment also down there in Cape Town.

I have just quickly browsed the UK judgments and I am not a lawyer, but I doubt that it was relevant to the recognition and execution in the UK of Judge Griesa's ruling that NML fund is registered in the Caymans (UK):
my guess is that the result in the UK would be the same had NML being registered anywhere else.

About waiving ... I beg you can waive your copyright because some days ago I dared to translate your “Terminally Insane” to “Demente Terminale” (crediting you of course!) and that is now a great success on our Italian forum.
329 Mikarita Yatemata (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 01:54 am Report abuse
I hear the US supreme court may have an “open session” soon... literally OPEN.


330 Think (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 06:51 am Report abuse
(328) Caro Arken

You say:
“ I beg you can waive your copyright because some days ago I dared to translate your “Terminally Insane” to “Demente Terminale.......”

I say:
...ti interrompo solo un attimo per dire che ”demente terminale“ e' Italiano puro.

”Demente Terminale” is pure Italian....
No copyright needed....
Chuckle chuckle©
331 Guzz (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 07:05 am Report abuse
Only reason the SA nations you mention are doing fine, is because you lot lost control of the market...
332 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 10:36 am Report abuse
#327 &329.....titti boi....are you Japanese this week? Grow up....really now ! You are really quite the saddest example of life. Mom really fucked you in the head.........or Maximo just fucked your head back at camp
333 surfer (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 11:56 am Report abuse
Just a little survey.

What do people reckon is the current ACTUAL yearly inflation rate (CPI) in Argentina?
334 Captain Poppy (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 04:01 pm Report abuse
in the upper twenties to mid thirties, depending on where you go. BAsed on basic food products...rents, etc.
335 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
@330 Think

Querida El Think :-)
I commend your knowledge of Italian language (that was already evident when you understood my nickname's meaning ... that is “Thief Catcher” for the benefit of other people here who don't know Italian ).
Anyway, when related to the Argentine president, “Demente Terminale” is in a way innovative wording.
I have been reading in Spanish, Englishe and Italian comments on her so many ... non-positive ;-) LOL... attributes but never “Demente Terminale”, so ChrisR deserves some copyright.

I am glad to to see that you are reading the most popular forum of Italian holdouts and post-swap investors in Argentine sovereign bonds:
but you have made some confusion ... my nickname in NOT “Arken” there (someboby else is frequently posting with that nick).
I'm always “Acchiappaladri”, here and everywhere else the topic is Argentine default and related facts.

P.S. Thank you for your kiss, as long as you are a “SHE” and not looking and thinking (well, “thinking” is perhaps a bit too much for her) like your current President LOL
336 Think (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
(335) Acchiappatuoipropriladriprimadiromperelescatoleal’Argentina….

Thanks for correcting my confusion.......

The “baci” was a brotherly one ..... From a hermano Argentino to a hermano Trentino (?)
337 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
@336 Think

Please, let's avoid kisses in this case LOL
338 Think (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
As you wish, Acchi.....
339 ChrisR (#) Oct 30th, 2012 - 10:11 pm Report abuse
328 Acchiappaladri

Thank you for responding.

”The UK got ‘involved’ with the Singer lawsuit because Singers’ companies are registered in the Caymans (UK) and had a judgement in the favour against the AG government, who appealed and lost that as well.”

The instigation of this case was purely by Argentina, who (I think) thought they would have a more sympathetic hearing in the English Court, forgetting of course that our courts deal with the law, irrespective of the parties involved. I do not think in any way that an American Court would be influenced by the judgement of any other court.

It was a surprise to me to learn that significant numbers of ‘holdouts’ were Italian pensioners. I do hope that sooner, rather than later, they manage to get their money from the deadbeats of AG.
340 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 31st, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
@339 Dear ChrisR,

I’m happy you didn’t know of the massacre of so many Italian “Tangobond” holders: I assume it means you are not a victim or RG’s bond default. Good!

In late ‘90s Argentina had a good international reputation in many Western countries… a reborn democracy, the Falklands aggression belonging to its dictatorial past, peaceful at last with neighbours, plenty of natural resources, low inflation, many foreign investments in local businesses, IMF’s and Bill Clinton administration’s darling, low public debt, growing economy with a huge potential.
Argentine propaganda was especially effective in Italy: by instinct the average, poorly informed Italian felt (and still feels … many Italians have relatives in Argentina) Argentina to be a sort of appealing, friendly and rich sister-country.

Italian families traditionally are strong and prudent savers, investing much in “safe” sovereign bonds.
With domestic and European sovereign bonds yielding less and less, many people attempted to diversify in emerging markets.
When Argentina issued, under trustworthy foreign laws, many bonds that looked like being designed for retail investors, 450,000 Italians (most of them VERY small saving investors, many retired or soon to retire persons) were easily convinced that trusting Republic of Argentina was a good deal for a moderate risk/higher-than-domestic yield investment: its yield was lower than Brazil’s, Colombia’s, Venezuela’s but for the general public Argentina was more reliable and they chose it… what a painful mistake!

Many Italians mistook RG junk for (nearly) investment grade bonds.

About 14 billion (2001) USD, approx. 1% of Italian GNP, was invested AT PAR or even above !!! in Tangobonds and it fell victim of the December 2001 default: a national catastrophe.

In Germany that happened too, but scaled down to 1:4 approx.

Today approx. 80,000 robbed Italian retail investors are still alive and holding out (most of them litigating with Argentina at WB’s ICSID).
341 Guzz (#) Oct 31st, 2012 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
“In late ‘90s Argentina had a good international reputation in many Western countries… a reborn democracy”

Berlusconi would agree with you...
342 Acchiappaladri (#) Oct 31st, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
@341 Guzz

Sorry, but I don't understand your comment.

I suppose he would agree.

But why that is no noteworthy for you??? Wouldn't agree you too?
and any other person around the globe too, with good memories of what was usually written and told abroad about Argentina in the '90s?

Common understanting here was that Argentine democracy was killed by the military regime and that it was born again at the end of 1983 with the election of Raúl Alfonsín, then developing and strengtheing step by step in the following years into the '90s.

Was that a wrong understanding? Do you believe that under the generals' ruling Argentina had democratic governments?
343 Ayayay (#) Nov 01st, 2012 - 03:45 am Report abuse
@340 good analysis
344 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 01st, 2012 - 06:03 am Report abuse
@343 Ayayay

“@340 good analysis”

Wait, wait !!

Guzz is about to come back with a limp inappropriate joke as a sulking rebuttle...
345 ChrisR (#) Nov 01st, 2012 - 03:20 pm Report abuse
340 Dear Acchiappaladri

Thank you very much indeed for explaining that awful situation that you and your countrymen find themselves in.

I know EXACTLY what you mean about the falling rates in EU investments.

I took what my wife assured me was a stupid decision and put half of our liquidity into buying gold sovereigns. These are legal tender British coins so no VAT is payable, just a capital gains charge which can be set against allowable expenses.

In nine months we made 29.6% return on our investment and the coins stayed in one of my safes during that time so NOBODY could take our money. This helped to replace the 49% loss on our equity that the stupid idiot Brown did to many of the middle classes in Britain.

It is really difficult for the normal person, acting on their own, to keep ahead of any government. But what Argentina has done to millions of small savers with these bonds is despicable.

My sincere best wishes to you and your people.
346 Domingo (#) Nov 01st, 2012 - 11:19 pm Report abuse
Argentina is nothing more than a common thief. Jail it.
347 We got your Fragata (#) Nov 02nd, 2012 - 11:11 am Report abuse
Argentina sinks more and more into the PIT each day! Walk around Buenos Aires where I live you will see all of the people living in the streets, babies sleeping on dirty mattresses on the sidewalks and people eating from the public garbage bins!
348 Guzz (#) Nov 03rd, 2012 - 10:14 am Report abuse
All you who don't like Argentina, just leave, it's not that hard...
349 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 03rd, 2012 - 02:48 pm Report abuse
Gizz is again confused in thinking it's Argentina we don't like. It's the tip of Argentina's dull sword who is all the hatred is aimed toward.
350 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 03rd, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
It's Guzz and CFK we don't like.
351 Guzz (#) Nov 03rd, 2012 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
Great, we don't like you either. By the way, how come you tell this to eachother, and not to the Argentines?
352 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 03rd, 2012 - 11:03 pm Report abuse
I do everytime I am there
353 British_Kirchnerist (#) Nov 04th, 2012 - 02:01 am Report abuse
Keepup the resistance and the dignity Arg, you're fighting for all the working people of the world when you fight these vultures...

#10&12 Excellent comments Guzz, kinda says it all, #75 is also outstanding
354 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 04th, 2012 - 02:09 am Report abuse
@351 Guzz

All of the trolls on here are Argentine.

Most of the Argentines on here are trolls.

However, there have been a few Argentinians on here who were not trolls and we enjoyed conversations with them.

The thing we had in common the most, was our dislike of CFK and her thieving from the people, and destruction of the Argentine economy.
355 Guzz (#) Nov 04th, 2012 - 07:17 am Report abuse
So, basically you are talking to that 0.001 % of the Argentines that agreed with your idiocy before even typing a word. I insist, why don't you talk to the Argentines? I'll give you a hint, they don't care of what you think :)
356 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 04th, 2012 - 01:27 pm Report abuse
0.001% ? some math? count the troll and non troll argentines........with math like that, no wonder you cannot accomplish anything. And pirate hunter wants a nuckear defence.........go back to school in science and math.


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