Argentina private sector increasingly isolated from foreign money markets
Earlier in the week Standard & Poor’s ratings services lowered to ‘B-’ from ‘B’ its unsolicited long-term sovereign credit rating on Argentina and on Friday the ratings agency said it is taking a similar rating actions on four Argentine banks and 16 Argentine corporations.
Standard & Poor’s lowered to ‘B-’ from ‘B’ its global scale issuer credit ratings on Banco Hipotecario SA, Banco Patagonia SA, Banco de Galicia y Buenos Aires SA, and Banco de la Provincia de Buenos Aires. The outlook on the ratings also remains negative.
S&P also announced on Friday that it is lowering the global scale ratings on the provinces of Buenos Aires, Córdoba, and Mendoza, and the City of Buenos Aires to ‘B-’ from ‘B’. (They are among the richest provinces of the country).
On the situation of the banks S&P said “we rarely rate financial institutions above the foreign currency ratings on the countries where they operate because we consider it unlikely that these institutions would remain unaffected by developments in their domestic economy.”
S&P said the downgrade “on the Republic of Argentina is based on the increasing risks the government will face on its debt management following the Second Circuit Court of Appeals of the United States’ ruling ratifying the judgment of the New York district court granting summary judgment to plaintiffs on their claims for breach of the Equal Treatment Provision”.
It added that “this rule could potentially increase the liabilities of Argentina and the debt service of the government over the near term. In addition, recent negative events, such as the payment in local currency of a province liability denominated in US dollars issued under Argentinean Law and the blocking of a Navy ship in Ghana by litigants from the 2001 sovereign default, highlight the increasing risks the government of Argentina will continue to face to define its economic policy management and financial program over the near term”.
More specifically on the situation of the banks S&P said “also, all the financial institutions operating in Argentina could face indirect effects of a sovereign downgrade.”
The report said that “this is because we believe a sovereign downgrade is normally associated with, or could lead to, a weaker operating environment for financial institutions, which would very likely affect their creditworthiness. These trends could harm the credit fundamentals of these four banks. We will continue to monitor their financial condition closely”.
According to S&P “the negative outlook indicates at least a one-in-three chance of a downgrade over the next 12 months.” S&P also said it downgraded the provinces of Buenos Aires, Córdoba, and Mendoza, and the City of Buenos Aires to ‘B-’ from ‘B’.
“The negative outlook on these entities reflects the outlook on the sovereign and the risk of further deterioration of economic and financial conditions in Argentina,” the ratings agency said.
S&P also downgraded the outlook of 16 Argentine companies. (BAH).-
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If their economy wasn't already in full stop and probably into negative territory I would think they would have already entered into hyperinflation. Luckily they are in recession and only have 30%!
hahaha
Which Province will be the 1st to pay salaries or expenses with Patacones?
Patacones or 10/1 peso which comes first? chicken egg chicken egg
I doubt anyone will notice a Peso note with another zero...I'm sure they won't
Austal again anyone?
I think you're over analyzing the issue. It's much simpler than what you think.
Argentina is in the firing line simply because they refuse to pay their debts. Other parties are having to prosecute them in foreign courts so they can get paid, that's all. If they sat down with them and worked out a payment plan everything would be OK.
As for Iran, well they are a terrorist state and are working on a nuclear capability. The west or their enemies if you want to say it truthfully are very worried about this and are presently conducting a covert economic war on this Islamic regime. Luckily for us it seems to be working. Their economy is grinding to a halt and it now seems a preemptive attack won't be necessary.
Last time I checked Argentina were part of the West. Are you suggesting otherwise?
So, because of me being in the west, the western nations don't habe WMD's all of the sudden? I love your logic, where's that Mensa-guy?
Hahaha!!!
Anyway Guzzy Guzzler. You say you're not interested in the Falklands and that's all I'm on here for so you and your puzzling little views are all fine by me. I couldn't give a fuck whether Argentina prospered or went down the drain just as long as they leave us alone like they currently are.
What possible influence could you - one man in no position of power - have on Argentine politics when you claim to be Uruguayan and living abroad?
Being brought up delusional has that effect on you....
Check how many Tupamaros are ministers in Uruguay today, that's all you get out of me ;)
@7 Only following your example. Or are you suggesting that, by the standards of the day, Spain didn't have WMDs? Or that it didn't invade sovereign countries? Or that it didn't commit theft, rape, murder, genocide? Or that argieland hasn't done the same?
@9 Ever heard of longitude? Or the Prime Meridian? We can understand your attitude. If you're in Denmark, you are, technically, in the east. Does that make you feel better? But if you ever give up the privilege of existing in a free, democratic country and go home, you will be going to the west!
@13 Were you not reading? You're in the east. Of course we have WMDs. We have to protect ourselves from the sub-humans. We don't deny it or hide them. When did we start to learn that the sub-humans like corruption, criminality, genocide, mendacity, theft, violence, war? 1982! Fortunately, we were just ready enough. We're much readier now. Here's our current day logic. The proper response to a threat is to eliminate it. Permanently!
Got 1 word that will solve most of your issues. Myotonic.
But I much rather have the Argentine government expropriate the land and bank accounts of foreign polluters withing Argentina then lose this opportunity chasing ghosts while they theft from us, let the expropriation war begin.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9646826/Argentina-told-to-seize-up-to-19.2bn-of-assets-from-Chevron.html
“Ecuador has asked Argentina to seize up to $19.2bn of assets from Chevron in the latest twist in a long-running lawsuit over pollution in the Amazon rainforest.
The oil giant will also have its bank accounts in Argentina seized and gas sales frozen, a judge has ruled.
The 2011 ruling, one of the biggest of its kind in history, stated that 30,000 residents of Ecuador's Lago Agrio region had been harmed by the operations of Texaco, which Chevron bought in 2001.”
#4 Great post =)
#18 I hope one day you join them =)
Not to defend Argentina's deadbeat flauting, but the Vulture funds by nature do not have any desire to negotiate, they simply take advantage of desperate sellers of distressed bonds and then take advantage of the distressed debtor.
They are not the duped victims many in this website portray them to be. They made money from both the small investors that got hosed by Argentina's default, and now are trying to make money from Argentina itself. Simple as that.
Elliot Management will never negotiate in good faith. Kinda like Argentina, i guess!
@18 So you have absolutely no power or influence. That explains the tone of your posts.
I hate the fact that you are in the crossfire of generalisation. Know I have no problems with British people. British with capital B, not the fascist ones. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you taking crap from both sides though... Wish you and your proper countrymen all the best and more, and I'm truly sorry if I ever offended your flag or country in my misfire.
So did slave owners have the law on their side, if you want to go that route.
I didn't say they were not correct to pursue. I just rightly mentioned they are not out to protect the bonholders, they hosed the original bondholders by buying these bonds at token price. Now they want the full price for them.
They are not representing any of the prior buyers, those sold at basement prices. Whatever money the fund gets, they keep, they are not going to give it to the pensioners or 401k people that were hurt.
oh man, go get shares in Kleenex (or specsavers!)... SO, so funny. Best post in the thread. :-0
Exactly, the law can be an ass, as that great British wordsmith Charles Dickens pointed out
#25 Thanks mate I apreciate that =)
CFKC's oligarchy government is no victim in this battle.
Yes, but I'm afraid the original bondolders should be protected and Argentina be forced to repay them, if not the full amount most of it (or to whomever they designate as beneficiaries of their accounts).
I believe an overhaul of the world's financial system is needed. To prevent countries like Argentina taking advantage of it and to end this hedge and vulture fund casino. Both sides are responsible along with investment banking for the instability of the world's economy, and it is always the small investor that loses.
As it is right now, I almost feel as if both sides profit somehow from all this: the countries borrow money, then get into a crisis, and then come the funds waiting in the wings to snap a bargain. Then they make a profit, have more money to lend, and the process begins anew.
The middle man in that, the retail saver, is left with the bag.
I agree and thank you for a sane input. What is your thoughts on the plan Brady, the original contract Argentina was forced to sign in order to avoid this happening to them in the late 90's?
Yeah Guzz, a nice Western education you have there, which allows you to Criticize the west.
You are a laugh you know Guzz? there you sit, in the lap of luxury and hark back to the land of your origin.........
If the west is that bad, then why don't you go home? If you are truely offended by everything that “The West” has done, then why are you not off back to your country to find your roots? improve the lives of your own countrymen?
Oh, 'cos you're not THAT offended..... just enough to hate everyone in your posts but not enough that you want to move home......... mmmm I see now, Guzz you are a weapons grade idiot ha,ha, HA!! the biggest joker on this forum.......
Not all European are fascists mate...
Matter of fact, I've never met such a big concentration of them as in these threads...
What is concerning is how very little CFKC's government has learnt from the previous situation and seems determined to drive the country into a second default. The first default COULD have been avoided if Argentina put aside some of that outstanding belligerence and worked with the IMF. The government of the time just did not believe that the IMF would pull the rug, no matter what they did. They behaved like a naughty child with an over-indulgent parent believing that there would be no consequences.
I read 'Argentine' posters on here believing they can operate outside of the world market but they cannot. They should play the system rather than fight it because they are not powerful enough to win.
Nothing has changed since then and this time there will be no support from the USA. I think Argentina is going to be used as an example of what happens when you don't play by the rules.
www.google.com/webhp?client=ms-android-acer&source=android-home#hl=en&safe=off&client=ms-android-acer&tbo=d&site=webhp&spell=1&q=four+steps+to+damnation+argentina+gregory+palast&sa=X&ei=F6WWUMbrNaXsyQG7voD4Cw&ved=0CC8QBSgA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&fp=763c3cc1e26523b6&bpcl=37189454&biw=1280&bih=800
No we don't want to operate outside the world market we want the market to make justice.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9646826/Argentina-told-to-seize-up-to-19.2bn-of-assets-from-Chevron.html
Ecuador has asked Argentina to seize up to $19.2bn of assets from Chevron in the latest twist in a long-running lawsuit over pollution in the Amazon rainforest.
The oil giant will also have its bank accounts in Argentina seized and gas sales frozen, a judge has ruled.
The 2011 ruling, one of the biggest of its kind in history, stated that 30,000 residents of Ecuador's Lago Agrio region had been harmed by the operations of Texaco, which Chevron bought in 2001.
Please copy and paste something new.
It “lost” it.
Then attempted to prosecute the journalist that didn't.
Do you think Christina Kirchner would welcome the secret Swiss bank accounts of the Argentine financial elite being published?
And Argentina was being touted at THE poster-child for SoAm investment when they really didn't deserve the credit. Money was made out of pimping Argentina and the subsequent haircuts. It was not by any means only the US that profited and Argentina seemed to welcome every snake-oil salesman with open arms. And let us not forget that the Argentine government greedily grabbed at any money they could lay their hands on and spent it like a lottery winner let loose in Vegas. What they failed to do was meet any of the terms and conditions of the loans.
@37 How does it feel to know I have spent far more time in Argentina than you ever have?
Until you stand by your convictions and go back to Argentina your words have no validity at all.
There is only one person to intimately carry the blame for ones countries successes of failure,
And that’s the leader, [CFK ]
And her government,
No one can blame any other nation for what has happened,
Argentines problems are from argentines policies, headed by the argentine government headed by CFK,
Full stop.
If you disagree then we strongly suggest you write or email CFK and tell her,
Still,
If you do complain, make sure you either bolt ya doors at night, of immigrate first.
Justa thoughta .
.
GO IMF! Bring on that RED CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At that time though the USA was backing Argentina with the belief that a stable Argentina was needed in South America. Boy have time changed! The USA has Chile, Peru ( !) Colombia(!) and Brazil as stable functioning countries (dare I say aligned) so they can let ARG slide into oblivion without it hurting anyone but themselves.
I think the USA wants the world to watch a spectacular failure as a lesson to play by the rules.
We will see shortly...
My friends there are acutely aware of the daily increasing difficulties there. One - who used to be a strong CFKC supporter - emailed me last week saying people felt afraid and the feeling was spreading.
Why IS it you are so busy helping Singer out???
I'm Uruguayan, curently we have the IMF, WB, US, EU and even you lot fighting for a spot up our arses. Win-win, I'd say...
“I'm Uruguayan, curently we have the IMF, WB, US, EU and even you lot fighting for a spot up our arses”, yet you still remain argentinas bitch, why??
grow a pair and stand up for yourselves against argentina just like The Falklands has.....
Now do as your masters say and come use some pounds sterlings.
I love how well my part of the world is doing in all of them :)
I don't think you truly understand freedom and freedom of expression as well as you think you do. Before dictating to me what your expectations of My country is I think you would benefit from reading the international human rights charter and maybe then we could have a balanced discussion over What is good for Argentina, but before I lecture you over what's right and wrong, I admit that you have the right to speak for yourself thats all.
#41 ask any Argentine pensioners if it was the IMF or the bankers who came to help back in 2001? And when you find the name that sorted all out you will understand most Argentines until then you'll keep running into a brick wall. I“all make it simple for you. Duhalde, menem, galtiery and videla, get the picture?
#43 the word you are looking for is accountability, and the results from IMF conditions couldn't be more predictable. As is the case in Spain, Greece and was it Greenland that also went broke over night?
www.washdiplomat.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8228:icelands-busted-economy-slowly-puts-back-the-pieces&catid=1484:march-2012&Itemid=497
The ambassador added that ”in reality, they never closed. Now the government owns Landsbanki, and the two others are owned by the debtors. We also borrowed money from our Nordic friends because there was a lack of foreign currency. They backed us up in a friendly and efficient manner.”
Yet other neighbors didn't exactly react in a friendly manner — namely the British and Dutch, whose governments demanded that Iceland repay the roughly $5.8 billion that their depositors lost when Landsbanki went under.
The Icelandic government initially agreed, but when the issue was put to a referendum, taxpayers refused to foot the bill for foreign creditors — which would've entailed relinquishing an amount roughly equal to half the country's GDP.
The v
“import tax of 50%charged from every nation giving help and refuge to vulture fund”
I do hope that these countries are the ones supplying your armed forces with kit and spares.
In that case go ahead-put 100% import tax on them then.
What do you think Guzz?
“Hypocrite Guzz bitching about the “hypocrite West” while sat in a country of the West getting West-level training and education at the taxpayer's expense. Just out of curiosity Guzz, when you are actually heading back to South America to improve the lives of your countrymen?”
Britninja,
GUZZ now says, “Hypocrite Guzz bitching about the “hypocrite West” while sat in a country of the West getting West-level training and education at the taxpayer's expense. Just out of curiosity Guzz, when you are actually heading back to South America to improve the lives of your countrymen?
“Ones that leave SA because they are not allowed to feed off others” are called ”Gusanos”.
Now, he says he was EXILED to Europe, Denmark, Sweden, (not his fault), for fighting as a Socialist in Operation Condor.
Magically, he has now “returned” to South America !!
Sounds like one of Sussie's fantasies of being a Vegas Showgirl LOL !!
Anyway, so much for his claims of living in Europe and being a privileged but impartial observer, from outside South America ,
LOL LOL LOL
and most aint even argies,
but if the boot was on the other foot,
????????
Yes, for two reasons - they are her enemies, and it would also show that the rumours she had one are false =)
I do believe that if the CFK admin sat down with the bond holders they could come up with a solution. It wouldn't be a few cents in the Dollar but a rather more a substantial ammount. The likes of Elliot management have not made money as you claim, they first have to cash in the bonds to make a profit and that has not happened yet. CFK claims that they have some US$45 billion in reserves. It is therefore morally as well as ethicaly and proper to pay up, what sort of a country do they want to have? A serious one or a global laughing stock?
According to the rest of the world, he was prosecuted for negligence...
The only class of investors who will be interested in Argentine investments will be vulture funds.
YPF is an example of how commercial investments will be respected, Govt. bonds tell their own story. The story was, and is, about Default.
Well done sedulous Guzz...
keep on writing away.
06:10(GMT)....05:10(Copenhagen Time)
“sedulous”
I think the word you are looking for is,
“seditious”
My wife and I did, but fortunately below the rescue amount, AND we got our interest as well.
All's well, that ends well! :o)
“According to THINK having the pride of the RG navy seized was a good news story. He is glad it is gone for a variety of reasons.”
Yes he was, he seemed to think that it was a waste of money and a drain on the countries budget...... Pity he didn't stop to THINK that Ol' Turkey Neck / KFC / TMBOA / The Harpy was an even bigger one and by having her impounded, they could have saved Argentina from financial ruin.......... Oh well, when THINK is the best you've got.........
What is happening on NOV 8th ??
Is it going to be in every city with an Argentine Consulate ??
Will it be violent?
Should they be scared ?
Big pots, or little pots ???
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