Thursday, November 15th 2012 - 02:20 UTC

Argentina takes Ghana to the Law of the Sea Tribunal over the retained frigate

The Argentine government, as anticipated on Wednesday formally reported Ghana before the Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, in a bid to try to recuperate the ship that has been detained in Tema port since October 2. Argentina also announced it will demand compensation for the ‘illicit action’ losses.

Timerman said Argentina is confident ARA Libertad will be released

The action comes after the absence of a response by Ghana to Tuesday’s ultimatum over the release of the ARA Libertad frigate.

Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman announced the measure on Wednesday in a televised press conference from the Government House, Casa Rosada, where he explained the ‘precautionary’ action demands “from Ghana the immediate and unconditional release of the ARA Libertad frigate, and its provision so it can leave Tema port with the most urgency”.

Timerman argued that Ghana had violated International Law which confirms immunity for war vessels and since both countries are signatories of the UN convention on the Law of the Sea, the vessel must be released immediately.

He explained that the ‘precautionary’ condition has a ‘summary’ implementation and it will be resolved following “oral summons” established by the Tribunal in Hamburg. “The Ministry of Foreign Affairs believes the summons will be most urgent, probably the first at the end of the month or early December”.

The Argentine minister said that while the ‘cautionary’ request is implemented the Tribunal will have to address the “heart of the controversy” which will be decided further on.

Timerman revealed that Argentina is requesting that Ghana be made internationally responsible for the ‘illicit impounding’ of the frigate and to order Ghana to pay compensation for all legal and other damages incurred by such an illicit action and to publicly redress Argentina’s symbols, which have been challenged from the moment the Navy’s flagship immunity was ignored”.

Asked how confident Argentina was about the cautionary actions, Timerman said he believed the Hamburg tribunal would rule in favour since International Law supports Argentina’s request, and “it will be an immediate action”.

The frigate has been controversially detained since October 2 in the port of Tema, after a Ghanaian judge ruled in favour of NML Capital, an investment or “vulture” fund that is demanding the payment of Argentine bonds, capital and interest, totalling 370 million dollars.

The Argentine government argues that the seizure of the ship represents an infringement of sovereign rights, the Law of the Sea and the Vienna Convention.

The Tribunal for the Law of the Sea is an international court that was formed to mediate disputes on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. The maritime tribunal seated in Hamburg usually takes several months to deliver a verdict on such dispute.
 

131 comments Feed

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1 Bongo (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:00 am Report abuse
It's better that Argentina goes to court than have the ship's crew start waving their rifles around again.

“Several months” is a long time when you're tied up in port though.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out.
2 KFC de Pollo (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:25 am Report abuse
Héctor Timerman Looks like he's blowing a big raspberry into the microphone!

thrrrrrrup!
3 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:17 am Report abuse
@01 Bongo

““Several months” is a long time when you're tied up in port though.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out.”

So, if they are held in limbo in the harbour for months, one wonders if there will be renewed efforts to shift them out of the way.

It really begs the question, too, will Ghana allow the crew to be replaced, or will they be stuck for the duration??
4 LEPRecon (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:15 am Report abuse
@3 - Troy

I doubt Ghana will allow the crew to be replaced. I mean why should they? Argentina has threatened, demanded, and lied about Ghana from the beginning of this incident, and waving weapons at unarmed civilians won't have gone down well with any aspect of Ghanaian society.

All Ghana has to do is refuse them entry into the country stating that for all they know the replacement crew could be special forces and not sailors, which could cause the situation to turn nasty.

As for taking this to the Law of the Sea Tribunal it's laughable. The tribunal will just turn around and say that this is a matter for the Ghanaian courts, or may even support Ghana's position, since Argentina waived its sovereign immunity on ALL of its sovereign assets INCLUDING military hardware.

This is just the Argentine government playing for time. It won't work.

I wonder just how much Argentina legal costs are? I mean they're always in court lately aren't they?

I bet it's more than US$20 million. :)
5 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:43 am Report abuse
allafrica.com/stories/201211141469.html

......err.....OK......anyone understand that??
6 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:11 am Report abuse
“The Argentine government, as anticipated on Wednesday formally reported Ghana before the Tribunal for the Law of the Sea”

and if that doesn't work then Laughing boy Timerman will be writing a letter!!! A strongly worded letter!!

I can feel all of Ghana quaking in their boots right now!!!.........I wonder if he will use blue ink?
7 Terence Hill (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:14 am Report abuse
Perhaps is the time to remind Argentina in the blockade of Falklands shipping, that they should practice what they preach. Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

Article 24

Duties of the Coastal State

1. ...the coastal state shall not:

(b) discriminate in form or fact against the ships of any state or against ships carrying cargoes to, or from or on behalf of any state:
8 LEPRecon (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:53 am Report abuse
Of course if the tribunal finds against Argentina, they will immediately issue a statement saying that the Law of the Sea doesn't apply to Argentina! LOL
9 Huntsman Extraordinaire (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:51 am Report abuse
5) Sounds like the badgers have stopped NML for declaring Argentina as bankrupt to me.

In my personal experience here in UK, if you acheive a County Court Judgement, you can send the enforcement officers in; however sometimes you cannot get what your after cos they simply don't have it. So what you can do (although it's extremely expensive) and would only really do out of spite is go to the courts and have the company declared bankrupt for defaulting on their debt to you.

Sounds to me like this is what NML have tried to do to Argentina and it has been refused...

I could be wrong, cos I didn't understand what the latter half of dribble was.
10 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:54 am Report abuse
@04 LEP

As for taking this to the Law of the Sea Tribunal it's laughable. The tribunal will just turn around and say that this is a matter for the Ghanaian courts, or may even support Ghana's position, since Argentina waived its sovereign immunity on ALL of its sovereign assets INCLUDING military hardware.”

Could the tribunal dismiss this case forthwith, or must they deliberate for days or weeks, keeping Libertad in limbo and stuck there?

I agree about Special Forces - I was thinking the same.
11 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 09:06 am Report abuse
9 Huntsman Extraordinaire

At least you understood half of it - it was all gobbledegook to me.
12 Gordo1 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 09:47 am Report abuse
“Timerman argued that Ghana had violated International Law which confirms immunity for war vessels and since both countries are signatories of the UN convention on the Law of the Sea, the vessel must be released immediately.”
This vessel is not a “war vessel” as 1) it is not equipped for modern naval warfare, 2) it is used as a sail training ship for cadets from Argentina and other nations for basic instruction in seamanship and 3) it is also used to “fly the commercial flag” of Argentina. In the case of 1) above, imagine a war encounter between HMS Dauntless and the “Libertad” - it wouldn't and couldn't happen!
Surely, the Hamburg tribunal can only dismiss the Argentine claim as extremely frivolous!
13 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 09:55 am Report abuse
I have no idea what the tribunal will decide - but it will be fun to watch.

I don't understand how the convention tallies with Argentinas decision to waive sovereign immunity when it sold the bonds. Did Argentina fraudulently waive it's rights knowing this was unenforceable?

As Argentina has spent the last decade carefully planning the voyages of the Libertad to avoid this situation I can only assume they felt they were at risk.
14 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 10:33 am Report abuse
They have been avoiding docking at any port where they felt there was a risk of the vessel being impounded, therefore confirming that they understood that legally the vessel could be impounded.
Further more they have sacked the people involved with the decision to dock in Ghana, again confirming they understood that the Libertad was at risk.
15 LEPRecon (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 11:00 am Report abuse
@14 - agent999

Agreed.

This is just more smoke and mirrors in the hopes of pacifying the Argentine public, it may work for a short time, but then the smoke will drift away and the truth will still be there.
16 Welsh Wizard (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 11:39 am Report abuse
Normally the waiver of immunity is contained int he bond docs and also any legal opinion which would say something like:

”The Issuer (Argentina) waives and and all right to state immunity over in assets both in the country of issuance and abroad.”

So, this just comes down the supremancy of laws. The tribunal could argue that Argentina is a signatory Law of the Sea but hat they subsequently entered into the bond issue and therefore effecitvely waived immunity. Or they could say that Law of the Sea trumps the immunity provision. No idea what they will decide...
17 ChrisR (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 11:56 am Report abuse
5 Idlehands

It seems that AG are trying to block the original decision by using obfuscation and guile. So situation normal then.

I just love the claim by the court that “According to the court, the plaintiff would not lose when the adjournment is granted as they could be compensated unlike the applicant.”

That is assuming that AG would pay the ‘compensation’ to NML: no chance.

Cannot see this action making any difference at all to the outcome given the depth of investigation carried out in support of the original judgement. Modelled on the British system the Ghana Supreme Court only considers points of law and any errors made by the original judge (none).
18 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:07 pm Report abuse
An interesting example of the tribunal in action:

www.internationallawobserver.eu/2010/12/01/prompt-release-of-research-vessels-mv-louisa/

The names and nationalities of the judges that form the current panel

Algeria - Boualem Bouguetaia 2008
Argentina - Elsa Kelly 2011
Austria - Helmut Türk 2005 2008–
Brazil - Vicente Marotta Rangel 1996
Cape Verde - José Luis Jesus 1999 2008–2011
China - Zhiguo Gao 2008
France - Jean-Pierre Cot 2002
Germany - Rüdiger Wolfrum 1996 2005–2008 1996–1999
Grenada - L. Dolliver M. Nelson 1996 2002–2005 1999–2002
India - P. Chandrasekhara Rao 1996 1999–2002
Japan - Shunji Yanai 2005 2011–
Lebanon - Joseph Aki 1996
Malta - David Joseph Attard 2011
Poland - Stanisław Pawlak 2005
Russia - Vladimir Vladimirovich Golitsyn 2008
Senegal - Tafsir Malick Ndiaye 1996
South Africa - Albert J.Hoffmann 2005
South Korea - Jin-Hyun Paik 2009
Tanzania - James L. Kateka 2005
Trinidad and Tobago - Anthony Amos Lucky 2003
Ukraine - Markiyan Z.Kulyk 2011

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tribunal_for_the_Law_of_the_Sea

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Looking at all this I'd say the rules are open to interpretation, it has little power to enforce and Argentina won't be getting her boat back any time soon.
19 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:16 pm Report abuse
The press release

www.itlos.org/fileadmin/itlos/documents/press_releases_english/PR_182_E.pdf

Note: The press releases of the Tribunal do not constitute official documents and are issued for information purposes only.
20 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:34 pm Report abuse
To summarise that press release - “Argentina has had a moan and now we've all got to get out of bed to listen to it”
21 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:43 pm Report abuse
@17

“carried out in support of the original judgement. Modelled on the British system ”

In that case the Libertad will be there for ever ; )

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/prime-minister-completely-fed-up-as-terror-suspect-abu-qatada-walks-free-from-prison-8306025.html
22 Raven (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
@18 Idlehands

Interesting list that. At least the UK and Ghana can't be accused of influencing their judgement!

@7 Terence Hill
''The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea
Article 24
Duties of the Coastal State
1. ...the coastal state shall not:
(b) discriminate in form or fact against the ships of any state or against ships carrying cargoes to, or from or on behalf of any state:''

This is a bit of UN rules that Argentinas' politicians conveniently forget. I doubt that the Malvinistas will see anything wrong with breaking the convention. After all in their eyes, the Falklands is exempt from all such things that do not favour Argentina.
23 Musky (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:51 pm Report abuse
The International Law of the Sea does not apply to vessels that dock at sea ports. There are certain rules about the free passage of vessels but in the case of Libertad it was not passing through, it actully docked. If it was merely passing through Ghana territorial waters and not hurting anybody then it would be fine. No, it docked. Argentina will loose.
24 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 01:22 pm Report abuse
I suspect the tribunal will declare that it does not have jurisdiction in this matter and then go back to bed. They sound like a really lazy bunch.
25 Anbar (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 01:41 pm Report abuse
FTI, an interesting article:

opiniojuris.org/2012/10/15/dont-cry-for-the-worlds-greatest-sovereign-deadbeat/
26 Conqueror (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 01:43 pm Report abuse
@19 Well, “Provisional Measures”! No date has yet been set for a hearing.
•Are provisional measures prescribed by the Tribunal effective?

The parties to a dispute are required to comply promptly with any provisional measures prescribed by the Tribunal either under article 290, paragraph 1, of the Convention or under article 290, paragraph 5, of the Convention.
•Is there any recourse to appeal?

No. The decisions of the Tribunal are final. However, the Rules of the Tribunal make provision regarding requests for the interpretation or revision of a judgment.

We can see that argieland will rely on Article 29 and Article 32. If the bond issue waived sovereign immunity, that should be the end of the matter. Sticking with UNCLOS, would Ghana point to various provisions of Article 19?
27 Anbar (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 01:50 pm Report abuse
fwiw i think that Argentina will “win” here.... in principal at least.

Whether or not Ghana will comply, or even be forced to look into complying, is another matter.
28 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 02:02 pm Report abuse
I think it's anyone's guess what the outcome will be - all we know is that the law is involved so we may not get a result in our lifetimes.
29 Hook (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 02:18 pm Report abuse
28@ that is a possibility, it will take an eternity when the law is involved like you said.
30 briton (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
laws of the sea.

still wont help you avoid ya debts.
pay up .
31 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 02:44 pm Report abuse
The navy should use their bombs and guns to take out Americans and their property in Argentina. Tit for tat. A US embassy Von fire will help the vultures bring everyone back into their senses. We should charge any product from Ghana 50% import fee for 10 years for every day Libertad was held captive. There is no need to trade with the vulture or their helpers. Let's teach the terrorist mob a lesson.
32 Anbar (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 02:58 pm Report abuse
what a numpti /em rolls eyes
33 briton (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:05 pm Report abuse
Pirat-Hunter
Nasty little man, you will upset our American allies running America down.
If you hate the Americans so much, why don’t you fight them instead?
You seem capable, forward, experienced; you obviously know a lot abt explosives and war.

But remember this,
Despite Obamas anti brit attitudes,
You attack America you attack us,
Just be lucky the Americans like Argentina enough not to send the fleets down to crush you.

Or in this case, up to you.lol.

yaa, leave our american friends alone.lol.
34 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
@31 - For someone posting from canada, claiming to be of native indian decent, you clearly don't remeber what argentina did to your south american indian brothers, and you clear are incapable of thinking about the consequences of what you just suggested would be. If argentina did what you suggested, they would be wiped of the face of the planet by the US military might you dumb arse, something tells me the argentines here also think your a complete moron!
35 Hook (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:14 pm Report abuse
@31 Argentina should go to a war with USA, i think it's a really good idea, you should definitely do it.
36 briton (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
Law of the Sea Tribunal
thats.
L.O..S.T.
and they certainly are, lost.

34,
most argies already think P/H is a nut.
37 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:29 pm Report abuse
I agree the Argentine navy should use its bombs and guns to shoot up Buenos Aires.

What's not to like about that plan!?

I wonder how much Ghana exports to Argentina - I'd guess not a lot. The problem for Argentina is that she's impotent to do anything to coerce other countries - even small African ones.
38 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:33 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
39 briton (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 03:33 pm Report abuse
CFK is then a bully.
p/s
anyone noticed a search bar at the bottom of each blogg,
it only appears on mercopress pages.
40 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
“Search bar at the bottom of each blog”?

What's that a reference to?
41 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
Executing a pirate boarding a ship is a lot more humanitarian the killing hostages of thirst. Burning the Libyan embassy worked for UK maybe Argentina should set a Von fire with the US embassy. There is a UK sample I will like to emulate. Theft is theft no matter how you paint it. A 50% import charges on every import from nations giving help and refuge to the vulture funds.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
42 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:09 pm Report abuse
Even if the ITOLS ruled against CFK & co they will appeal somewhere else, “someone, somewhere must understand that we are right”

They have not tried the Vatican yet - maybe the pope will help!
43 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
Occupy US property and their corporates everywhere in Argentina will bring a faster solution. The family of the navy should start an occupy movement taking over the US embassy. Setting up a Von fire and expropiating land belonging to US corporates all around Argentina, show the world how the tax payer in Argentina will take their money back from thieves and vultures.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
44 bushpilot (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:23 pm Report abuse
@PH bin Laden

I just wanted to ask,

Is it cold in Canada now?
45 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:32 pm Report abuse
@43
ph

a link for you

www.ehow.com/how_5082408_rid-acne-buttocks.html
46 Anbar (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
hey folks, please just remember NOT to tie pretty much anything PH says as being typical of an Argentine.

-----------------

I've regularly used “Numpti” in its IT meaning for years and years now, but i wasnt aware of the phrase Numpty Tard until today:

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=numptytard

To say that it is apposite would be a tremendous understatement.

(and if the Think-Gestalt is reading its a far, far better phrase than “Turnip”)
47 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 04:55 pm Report abuse
#44 Not as cold as Islands Malvinas Argentina but when you are free and have rights you can stand up for your be lives. Unlike illegal aliens who occupy foreign land like the Jews and Brits who live under fear and war threats eternally.
#45 no my problem is not like yours, but thanks for your page, unlike you I am perfect I am Argentine can't you tell.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
48 bushpilot (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
“I am Malvinista araucano and my people have being around before the Brits deported us from Islands Malvinas Argentina. I think there is a map of our kigdom somewhere in France.”

- PH bin Laden - famous wisdom, #140

en.mercopress.com/2012/10/24/cristina-fernandez-triggers-further-uncertainty-and-fears-to-markets-and-investors
49 tobias (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
Pirat-Hunter:
As the de facto leader and ethical compass of our side, it is my duty to inform you that your services are no longer required. Your increasingly belligerent posts, the massive amount of gay porn we found on your hard drive and your conversion to Islam make you a liability and incompatible with our aims.

You are now terminated and will no longer receive weekly food parcels.
50 Anbar (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:03 pm Report abuse
lmfao @ tobias :-0

seriously LOL'd
51 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
Lol #49 that was your own c drive, besides I take my orders from CFK herself, That's why I support her 100% And elected her, I wonder is you voted for her? If you didn't you have no say here.
We love you CFK keep up the good work, ignore the english CIA and mi6 terrorists, label all the nations with terror networks as terrorists.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
#48 any word on the WMD or was it a set up like IMF and vulture fund trick? Always keep in mind that people who aren't as stupid as you think, some of us do read and form our own opinion. Unlike US lemmings who repeat what they are told.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
52 Santa Fe (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:39 pm Report abuse
51.. Take the pills mate your starting to ramble, bipolar me tinks
53 Ahmadinanuterjob (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:42 pm Report abuse
@ Pirate Hunter.

Do not be discouraged by the poisonous U.S lackey Infidels posting here.

Sharing many ideals, Iran stands firmly by the side of Argentina. We share many similarities – for example we are presently advising on the achievement of a free press.

www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=477805

Of course there have in the past been minor difficulties, but in a spirit of openness and transparent dialogue – these are being overcome.

www.jta.org/news/article/2012/11/14/3111941/amia-victims-request-for-information-on-negotiations-with-iran-denied

Positive action is being implemented to overcome and resolve the issues.

www.brecorder.com/agriculture-a-allied/183/1253147/

Finally, we salute your courage – your intellectual capacity would render you an ideal candidate for a martyrdom assignment. It is a great honor meaning that candidates are permited only a single opportunity. Interested?
54 Idlehands (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:49 pm Report abuse
Notice how PH has managed to divert the forum to be about him again.

I suggest everyone just ignores his posts or it's going to get very boring again very quickly.
55 Pіrat-Hunter (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 05:57 pm Report abuse
52, 53, 54
I already told you I don’t like being stalked by people who are cleverer than me. Back off or you will see how much I train. It takes 3 average sized midgets to hold me down. Keep pushing and you will have to put your tooth brush in your mouth next time you brush your teeth.

Nuclear program for Argentina to teach the infidels a lesson. We don’t need conventional delivery system, no planes, subs or missile technology. Once we have an H-bomb we will deliver with Argentine virtual technology. For those of you that don’t understand, that means will can deliver thermo nuclear explosion via internet in to your house.

Am I bi-sexual? Is a bi-sexual bipolar?

There is only one god and Ala is his name.
56 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:01 pm Report abuse
“I suspect the tribunal will declare that it does not have jurisdiction in this matter and then go back to bed. They sound like a really lazy bunch.”

Not as gripping debate - as 53 is amusing ; )

lighten up!
57 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:02 pm Report abuse
Hi ph @66
another good joke
58 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
“There is only one god and Ala is his name.”

You forgot the 'n' - it's Alan PBOH
59 Yuleno (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:12 pm Report abuse
LEP.
When did you become a legal expert.Was it in the second year of your nursing course when you studied managing terminal patients.
Why should Ghana object to a crew change.Do you think the families of the crew members should suffer in this dispute and that sick crew members should be denied required medical care.
Your colonial mindset is so revealed.God help any patient's you are tending if your caring disposition is so shallow.
On the matter of the legal case what is it in the law that you know which allows you to conclude that Argentina has no case to be addressed.
60 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
“Why should Ghana object to a crew change.”

Sory to intercede in your question, but refusing to remove the shipas requested and waving firearms around may be considered a valid reason?
61 agent999 (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
@59
Why should Argentina refuse to move the Libertad ?
62 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:37 pm Report abuse
PS

And declaring that you are not going to pay port fees.....
63 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
@47, 51,55
The “fridge” is making that monotonous droning noise again...
64 LEPRecon (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
@59 - Yuleno

Why should Ghana let Argentina change the crew.

If the current crew miss home, tough, the only people preventing them from returning is the Argentine government.

Argentina has accused Ghana, erroneously I might add, of threatening the Libertad crew, forcing them to remain on board, of holding them hostage etc...

Why should Ghana show Argentina any favours? Ghana is under no obligation to let 40-50 Argentine military personnel into their country.

As for the legal aspects of this case, you don't need to be an expert at international law to see which way this will play out.

Argentina waived its sovereign immunity on all sovereign property. There was no clause that said 'except for military vessels'.

This is also not a conflict between the government of Ghana and the government of Argentina, no matter how your politicians try to spin it. But a legal matter between Argentina and the courts of Ghana which are seperate from the government, and indeed the government of Ghana cannot interfer.

The Law of the Sea Tribunal cannot interfer in this, assuming they are even willing to hear the case, because it is not a dispute between countries.

The only true recourse Argentina could have is to take it to the ICJ, as the ICJ is the only body in the world that can over rule a sovereign nations courts. However, they won't, because Argentina waived its sovereign rights to secure loans. No one forced them to do it, and now Argentina has to pay the piper.

Oh and Yuleno, just what employment do you do that makes you think that you can sneer at my profession? Medical ethics and law are studied by nurses in the UK, so yes, some understanding of the law is necessary.

However, regarding international bodies, such as the Law of the Sea tribunal, all you have to do is a little research to understand their remit and the likely outcome of Argentina's complaint.

You should try it sometime, Yuleno, you might actually learn about how the rest of the world works.
65 ProRG_American (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
The world needs more explanations such as this to end the Vulture funds.

www.huffingtonpost.com/hector-timerman/africa-latin-america-vulture-funds_b_2100827.html
66 yankeeboy (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 07:47 pm Report abuse
65. Argentina is forced to write op-eds and take out advertising since they can't get a meeting with US State or Prez.
What an embarrassment!
67 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
@64

“Some understanding” - is an understatement ….. I shadowed my daughter through her Nursing Degree as researcher, proof reader, etc. Challenging - it was, especially ethics and law.

No! – it’s all coming back ….Competence, Capacity, Consent….. Kubler- Ross - 5 stages of grief….Liverpool Pathway…... Aaargh!

Nice reply to Yuleno : )
68 Ayayay (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
@66 lol
It's true, Huffington Post is just an aggregator site.
A Logic As Critical Thinking Class would cry if they read that article.
69 Trunce (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:48 pm Report abuse
Iceland did a sort of Argentina default in 2008, when it sucked in foreign banking deposits into a significantly over-leveraged domestic banking system.

Deposits should have been protected by a 20,000 euro guarantee. However, the banks folded, and Iceland reneged on the guarantee and defaulted, leaving a UK debt of £2.35 billion. The UK had to use legislation intended to freeze assets related to terrorism, to hold Icelandic assets, and subsequently two national referenda in Iceland rejected payment of the guaranteed amount which was subsequently reimbursed by the UK government to depositors.

A legal action against Iceland is presently being considered by the EFTA Surveillance Authority.

Iceland has now hired a PR company to assist in improving its global image -to convince the world they are not thieves.

www.prweek.com/uk/news/1158506/iceland-drafts-burson-marsteller-defend-global-reputation/

A model for Argentina to follow?
70 Conqueror (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 08:52 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
71 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 09:17 pm Report abuse
The Fridge is having to work over time 'cos all his widdle buddies got themselves removed from this forum.

I sense a certain desperation in his posts, like he's trying to stop a balloon from deflating by glaring at it..........

“Keep pushing and you will have to put your tooth brush in your mouth next time you brush your teeth.”

Well that is where normal put a toothbrush when they want to brush your teeth

“There is only one god and Ala is his name.”

I know a load of Christians and Buddists who would disagree with you....................Clown!!!

Back on topic now............

The maritime tribunal seated in Hamburg usually takes several months to deliver a verdict on such dispute.

So EVEN if the court rules in favour of Argentina, it won't be February at the earliest that they get their ship back. And if they don't rule in Argentina's favour, then it's going to be February at the earliest that they find out the bad news.

Either way, That's going to be Christmas away from their families for 45 sailors, though no fault of their own and because their leader won't pay the bills.

So they gotta stay there 'cos KFC / Ol' Turkey Neck / TMBOA / The Harpy wants to save face......... That sucks!!!
72 briton (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 09:48 pm Report abuse
relax every one,
ghana has just arrested a pirate,
almost certainly the hunter,
73 Yuleno (#) Nov 15th, 2012 - 10:28 pm Report abuse
LEP
Quite obviously you don't have to be an expert in law to post what comments you post.
How is it obvious how this matter will pan out.Have you been reading how Singer has friends in high places as well as money.Do you think that the Mediterranean countries will be watching the situation with great interest.Have you done a little research on the debates around vulture funds or have you just dismissed it as a leftist position.
Would you support Singer in his quest if it caused another default or do you think that is just a delaying tactic.
If you answer any of these points can you explain you reasons as well.
Again,why should the family of the crew suffer the absence of their son or father when they are due leave?
74 Frank (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 12:14 am Report abuse
The crew will suffer because they work for a corrupt regime..... don't blame Ghana
75 Skare (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 02:03 am Report abuse
i am scare
76 agent999 (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 03:29 am Report abuse
@73 Yuleno

Again, Why is Argentina refusing to move the Libertad ?
77 St.John (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 11:00 am Report abuse
Hilarious!

read Pirat-Hunter's wonderful raving and ranting in # 31 again - sublime!
78 Doggy Rap (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 11:04 am Report abuse
Ha ha ha - your right.

Piratos Hunteros what is a “Von fire”?
79 St.John (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 11:10 am Report abuse
@ 51 Pirat-Hunter

“CFK herself, That's why I support her 100% And elected her”

Oh, so you were the guy who stuffed the ballot boxes single handed!
80 Yuleno (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 04:05 pm Report abuse
Agent999
Because Ghana has impounded the warship.Get Singer to answer any more of your stupid questions.
81 Marcos Alejandro (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
:-))))))
82 ChrisR (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
80 Yuleno

So, just WHAT do YOU do for a living besides being an AG troll?
83 Gordo1 (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
@ 80 Yuleno
Kindly explain to us exactly how this vessel is equipped as a “warship”. For example, is it equipped with antisubmarine weaponry? What antiaircraft weaponry does it have? And is its crew of cadets of various nations trained in modern naval warfare? And would the non Argentine crew members be permitted to perform in the event the vessel find itself in a war situation?
Your clarifications will be very welcome.
84 agent999 (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 06:54 pm Report abuse
@80 Yuleno
The courts have impounded the training vessel not the Ghanain government, they have asked for the Libertad to be relocated while the court procedures take place, a not unreasonable request that will not effect the decision of the courts.

You feel that everything has to been done in the way Argentina demands, after all “Argentina is never wrong.”

You then state “Why should Ghana object to a crew change.Do you think the families of the crew members should suffer in this dispute and that sick crew members should be denied required medical care.”
So why should the port suffer in this dispute ?

Please don't throw all your toys out of the pram again and call everyone who does not agree with you “stupid”

What sick crew members are there ?
85 Yuleno (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
Gord01
Is it a cruise ship.Is it a oil tanker.No, it's a frigate.
Agent.
The law held the vessel,their is no reason for the gvt or any port authority to be hostile.Did the law insist on the crew remaining unchanged.Can you see further than the red mist?
86 briton (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 08:07 pm Report abuse
was it not the argies that were hostile,

was not the ghanians only trying to do things on ghanian soil,

what if a ghanian ship was in an argentine port, and CFK wanted to move it,
and the ghanian crew showed hostility with guns,

would we be having this discusion,[we think not]
87 agent999 (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 09:05 pm Report abuse
@85 Yuleno
The mist would appear to be obscuring your vision.

The Ghanaian government and the port authority are not being hostile in their request to move the training vessel to another less busy part of the port.

Was it not the Libertad crew that made a show of arms when the port authority tried to get the vessel moved ?
88 Yuleno (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
So that's why the crew can't be changed.
89 ChrisR (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 09:33 pm Report abuse
85 Yuleno

So, as you have not answered my question about just WHAT do you DO, WHAT is YOUR job, shall I take it that you are just a paid troll?

And not even a good one.
90 Mrs Captain Poppy (#) Nov 16th, 2012 - 10:46 pm Report abuse
@86
My husband can't comment at this moment,,,,he is screwing Briton,,,,
91 Gordo1 (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:52 am Report abuse
@85 Yuleno

You haven't answered my enquiries. You described the vessel as a “warship” and I asked you for justification of this. A “frigate” can be a “warship”, of course, if it is suitably armed - but if it is not armed then it is not a “warship”!

Please cease prevaricating and answer my enquiries in a serious mature way. Thank you.
92 Yuleno (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:30 pm Report abuse
Since when did a warship have to be war ready.And when it's not what class of ship is it,a cruise ship?
When is a warship not a warship?
93 briton (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
When it is build as some thing else.
94 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:38 pm Report abuse
@92 - How about its not a warship as its officially desginated as a school ship and is also not present on the argentine navys list of active warships either!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Libertad_%28Q-2%29

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_Argentine_Navy#Frigates_and_Corvettes

A school ship for Gradurating Navy Cadets is not a active warship!
95 Yuleno (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:35 am Report abuse
Well done teaboy.I'm sure your bit of googling Didnt take as long as your digesting progress did.
The vessel is listed as a training vessel in the Argentina navy.
The navy doesn't train in Internet sales or E-bay business but in some other activity.I think if there was training in E-Bay business it would help people to avoid errors and speed up the ability to learn more quickly how to be successful.
Likewise in military matters,training is essential to preserving ones own safety and therefore essential to the activity.
What class of vessel do you think this vessel is having done your Wikipedia research and if it is useful can you inform the appropriate authority,who are struggling to resolve this matter.
Can you advise on the appropriate action required to allow are change of crew also.
How is the budget shaping up the current economic upturn you are experiencing?
96 Gordo1 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:34 am Report abuse
@95 Yuleno

You continue to prevaricate in your reluctance to face the fact that Libertad is NOT a warship. If you care to investigate you will find that the instructions given to cadets on this vessel amount to nothing more than basic seamanship.

The only people “struggling to resolve this matter” are the Argentine Government authorities who are finding it difficult to find an argument to belay their total embarrassment in this whole sorry affair. What a load of inept operators!
97 Yuleno (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:14 pm Report abuse
Gord01
Will you contact the tribunal and advise them of your interpretation of this matter.Or perhaps you can sit back and await the outcome and cut and paste,
Just as I told you
And take on a smug air in the knowledge you were right.
I'm shaking in fear for the outcome :)
98 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:21 pm Report abuse
@95Yulelog

What change of crew??

The crew are not captive.

They are free to leave to access medical treatment, desert, or even return to Argentina, if they wish.

After threatening unarmed officials and dockworkers, with rifles, can't imagine Ghana letting Argentine military personnel into their country to replace ordinary sailors with Special Forces.

Feel sorry for the crew that CFK keeps them there.
99 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
@97 I fail to see what Ecommerce and Ebay has to do with the argument. No doubt you did some homework in to me on legal beagles. But given that the majority of my wealth and success comes from offline business sales and practices, and the Ebay style website am working on is nothing more than a pet project in early stage testing and final development stages and not part of my company or other businesses, i fail to see what your overall point is. As for training, well i would love to see you build a website and Mysql Database and intrigate the website and database with one another so that the site works. I'd also love to hear what you know about selling techniques and sales practices such as the key 5 steps to selling on the phone for example. Oh and by the way, sales isn't for everyone, as you can give a person the best training and sales knowledge in the world and all the tools to go with it, but ultimately whether they can sell or not is down to their own personality, attitude and even their tone of voice. One key sales techinique is to learn to mimick the person your selling to over the phone. So if they speak real slow you speak real slow, if they talk posh, then you talk posh.

I can make a call in the morning tomorrow knowing 100% that am gauranteed to make a sale worth between £200-£400 or even more in profit and the call will last no longer then 3 minutes and cost my no more then 3 pence for making the call.

So yuleno please entlight us as to why my skills, my sales ability, my current ebay style project that is designed as a cheaper and simpler to use alternative auction and marketplace to ebay and the training i give to those that work with me and their ability to sell, or my ability and knowledge to build and design a fully functioned PHP and Mysql Database driven website have anything to do with the arguement of whether or not the ARA Libertad is a warship or not? Fuck All!

Therefore you post was nothing but pointless drivel that made no sense at all!
100 malen (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
96 Gordo
Every country has the warship it cans. And Arg is not a militar power country, so only the navy, militars them, uses it to learn to sail, and to patrol and to defence if necessary.
And it seems to me so many brits here are very happy with this disgrace situation of our sailors and frigate. Go to bla bla to your FI topics. That of the book, and bla bla there.
101 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
@100 Ok Malen, so in your opinion its ok for you to post in falkland islands articles, but its not ok for us brits to post in articles about argentina? Lol tell you want Malen, the day we stop posting and taking the piss out of argentina in articles about argentina, will be the day you learn to stop posting on falkland islands articles, and stop claiming land this not argentinas and never was. How does that sound?

Ohh i hear you whining already. So malen, stop telling people when, what and where they can post their opinions when you yourselve do the bloody same thing you hypocrite!!
102 Yuleno (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:42 pm Report abuse
Oh dear teaboy you are in a bad way.Your comments might have a bad impact on some people,but you need to keep your composure(like you instruct others to in your selling methods), if you want to be effective.Of course,you don't want to be effective,you just want to satisfy your own self-evaluation.That evaluation of how stupid others are and,therefore,how wonderful and intelligent you are.
Unfortunately I find your comments amusing and your abilities displayed on MP not impressive.For example,my post@ 97 was not to you.The one to you was earlier.And that post was demonstrating that just as for selling on the Internet has techniques which are more successful than others,and they can be illustrated in training and education,so does military techniques needs to be demonstrated and inculcated in cadets.
You show get a hold of yourself,check your budget numbers carefully and keep fighting your corner.You can't help the occupiers of the Malvinas in your current frame of mind.Are you a supporter of Glasgow rangers by some coincidence.Ghat would explain it to some degree ;))
103 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:53 am Report abuse
@102 So what iof post 97 was not to me, it was you i was responding to as a result of your post 95. So i got the number of the post wrong. Big deal! Point is you tried bringing my business projects and that fact my company actively sells online, like all modern business do in so way or form, as a way of argueing that the ARA Liberatad despite being a training ship is still a warship.

As for - “Of course,you don't want to be effective,you just want to satisfy your own self-evaluation.That evaluation of how stupid others are and,therefore,how wonderful and intelligent you are.” - Well for a start why the hell would i want to evaluate myself as a person? What the hell does self evulation have to do with anything i put in my post! I think you will also find that i am very efficient too. Otherwise i would not be where i am today if i wasn't and i wouldn't be as successful as i am if i was self efficient. So since when has stating facts about ones own success and abilities been self evulation? It is, and never has been.

If anyone needs to get a hold of themselves Yuleno its you - oh and i don't need to check my budget numbers i employ a team of accountants to do that!!

P.s. no i don't support Glasgow Rangers, though i see why you asked that. Your trying to compare me to their current financial situation, yet your talking crap as you don't now what my finances are, though i can probably safely say i earn more in a week then you do in 2-3 years and thats if you lived in the UK on minimum wage, and thats just from my dividends!!
104 Gordo1 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:42 am Report abuse
@100 and @102

What a pair of juvenile performers you both are! Really, you are trying to defend the defenceless!
105 Yuleno (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:09 pm Report abuse
Well said gord01.You are an authority on subject aren't you?
Trained in law and specialised in the appropriate subject area?
You will confirm this matter yes?
Teaboy
I was not asking about Glasgow rangers because of its business performance.How could I be when it is poor and yours is so highly successful.I was asking because you seem disgruntled, and I thought you might be so because of their situation.(You could probably help them with their merchandising )
You are probably an Inverness Caledonian supporter.

If anyone needs to get a hold of themselves Yuleno its you - oh and i don't need to check my budget numbers i employ a team of accountants to do that!!
So how many are in your accountancy team this year,and do they get holidays irrespective of how well the business is doing?
106 Gordo1 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 01:35 pm Report abuse
@105 Having served in the Royal Navy for several years, I know the difference between a warship and a training ship. A training ship is NOT a warship as obviously it can't go to war with its small arms. Unless, maybe, it is the Libertad which is a vessel of the Argentine Navy which, according to reports from Argentina, is not capable of firing a shot in anger anyway.
107 Yuleno (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:39 pm Report abuse
Gord01
Guess that makes you an absolute authority.
Can you contact the argentine navy and the tribunal and inform them of your decision.We can all move on then.Nml will get the money at a massive profit,the warship will be released and the crew can get some leave.You might even get a Nobel prize for your contribution.
108 Pete Bog (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:30 pm Report abuse
@100
“And it seems to me so many brits here are very happy with this disgrace situation of our sailors and frigate.”

Yes because your country likes to threaten 300o people and talk drivelling nonsense about the Falklands. It also makes outlandish claims like Britain testing a defensive missile with only 4 miles range is a threat to a country over 10 times its range. And stupid claims that you are going to take oil companies to court when there is no legal basis to do so (otherwise you would have done so by now and suceeded in your aims).
When you grow up and stop bullying 3000 people then maybe we will stop taking the p155 out of your country-I mean Argentina asks for this abuse-the ship is impounded because Argentina does not pay back money it borrows-but instead of facing up top responsibilities, it swells up its chest, threatens, this and that, and this and that and returns to square one when it realises not complying with rules recognised by other nations doesn't work with the result that the ship is still impounded, whereas if it paid what it owed, or even part of it, it might have the ship back.

Argentina's government needs no help from pro-UK/Falkland posters to make itself a laughing stock-it does that nicely by speaking before putting it's brain into gear.

That's why people laugh at Argentina.
109 Gordo1 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
Yuleno - I don't claim to be an absolute authority in anything. However, common sense and knowledge, both of which you seem to be bereft, leads one to the conclusion that a “Warship” is built to make war - one does not have to have legal knowledge to come to this conclusion. The only ability you seem to possess is to revert to sarcasm when you are losing the debate - ¡pobrecito!

People laugh at Argentina because your leaders are so pompous and this pomposity seems to have rubbed off on you!
110 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:37 pm Report abuse
@105 - Considering you brought up my business projects and then accused me of self eveulationating myself, prior to asking if i supported Glasgow Rangers. Then what do you expect me to be, Do you seriously expect me to not be offended or upset that you have openly revealed a buisness project of mine, as you clearly had been on Legal Beagles and seen my thread about my up coming auction site, hence your reference to Ecommerce and Ebay. In a poor attempt to justify why the ARA libertard is a warship and why it should have immunity.

End of the day, there is no point to making such a comparison at all as the two can not be compared in the slightest and no amount of traininf or difference in type of training and skills changes the fact that the ship is a training vessel for sea cadets and therefore not a warship!

Not only that, but the fact you took the time to research me on Legal Beagles is clear evidence of your own attempt of self evaluation as you clearly wanted to see what you were up against and what you could use to your advantage. So if anyone was evulating anything, whether it be self evaluation of not, it was clearly you! So don't expect me to sit here and not take offense to you revealing what one of my business projects on these comments boards, without my consent and attempting to use your revelation of my project to justify your own arguements. Although you didn't provide details the fact you mentioned Ebay buisness, makes it clear what my buisness project is to anyone reading your post.

And since you now mentioned it yourself, then before you think you can reveal anymore, I'll reveal more myself. Yes am developing an alternative online auction and market place site that will be cheaper and simpler to use than ebay and amazon alike. Its a back to the basics type site that everyone loved about ebay when it first came about, prior to it becoming overly complicated making people dislike it. My site will likely be called YourBid when officially launched.
111 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
#102 If you consider the people of the Falkland occupiers, what do the indiginous south american people think of the more than 50% of European ancestry living in their lands south america calls countries?
112 ProRG_American (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:12 pm Report abuse
Sue those suckers Minister! Make them pay bigtime!!!!
113 Yuleno (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 09:46 pm Report abuse
Poppy are you asking them or if I know?
114 ChrisR (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:24 pm Report abuse
And this from BsAs Herald:
“Ghana rejected today Argentina’s plea for Accra City’s Commercial Tribunal to drop the case that kept the Libertad navy training frigate impounded at Tema port since October 2nd.

The Libertad, a naval training vessel, was detained in Ghana’s eastern port of Tema on October 2 at the request of hedge fund NML Capital Ltd, which claims Argentina owes it over 300 million dollars on bonds in default since 2002.

Today, Ghana Judge Richard Adjei Frimpong, of the Commercial Tribunal in Accra City rejected the proposal put forward by the Argentine government’s legal representatives.

“It would be bad fate for this tribunal to put this through,” Frimpsong said, who explained that the initial part as an “unconditional” defendant was not able to be reversed.”

Shortly after the decision was made known, President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner was reported to have held an urgent meeting at the Olivos presidential residence with Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman, in order to discuss the issue.

Oh dear! It looks like the dynamic duo of Putridjelli and Timmidman will be chucked out very soon!

Jolly dee!!!

BTW it will put a whole new light on the LOS injunction. Ha, ha, ha.
115 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:42 pm Report abuse
You Yuleno. The people of Britain are no more occupiers the everyone in South America that are not indigenous. South America is composed of over 50% whose ancestry goes to Europe. ......19% indigenous and the remainder mixed interbreds.
116 Yuleno (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
Poppy they are occupiers of argentina's territory not British territory.But bear in mind that its land they are occupying.Argentina is the land where mixed ethnic people live and all are equal in the constitution.
117 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 03:54 pm Report abuse
Look Yuleno, I am an American and when it comes right down to it, The Falklands bear no impact on me. BUT, with Britain as my allie and the people of the Falklands a free and democratic society, I have a morale obligation to support their choices and rights.
The Falklands are no more Argentina's than Alaska is Russia's or Canada's. This is the 21st century and you trolls need to get off you flag waving and history ranting drivel. Those people have been on that island long before Argentina was a country. Proximity does not equate to one's territory. And if all else fails, the Argentina's lost what should have been their final quest to steal the Falkland's when the UK handed your asse's back to Buenos Aires on a platter nicely sliced and diced. Get over it. There's an old saying...“pick up your bags and more on” , then maybe you can focus on the real problems in Argentina. Don't think for one moment that what Obama says or does not say supports your cause. He has ulterior motives as well. Politicians come and go, agenda's, both overt and covert are always gray, but the people of the Unites States will always support Britain and her allies and the concept of self determination in the final analysis. You will see the Falklands governed by La Casa Rosada when the poles shift and we rely on compass bearings pointing south.
Rather than finding fault with every country in the world that disagrees with Argentina, maybe it is time to come in from the cold and join the world and act like an adult. Swimming upstream results in only one outcome, google the salmon during spawning season.
Argentina started it's life as a conquerored land from the native people and now less than 19% remain......that's a fact that cannot be argued. But it's history and history is nothing more than what was.....not what is......again, get over it and focus on fixing Argentina and bring them into the 21st century as a mature and civil society.
118 Yuleno (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
Poppy
Your last post is a load of drivel.So what if your an 'American',what does it have to do with anything in particular.Your childish and that has something to do with things.Would you agree?
119 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 12:20 am Report abuse
Like an asshole Yuleno, you have an opinion as well.....only your's is apparently insignificant. Would you not agree?
120 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 06:08 am Report abuse
@118 Yuleno

You must be a very unhappy person. Would you agree?

You seem determined to be angry and miserable and insist you should be able to take the land and homes of others.
Get over it. I cannot understand your frustration and hate.
There is nobody in Argentina in living memory who lived in the Falklands, had any connection or experience of the islands, and your lives and culture have not been shaped or influenced by the Falklands. You cannot even claim a nostalgic longing for a way of life lost to Argentines.

Get over it, your frustrations and your patriotic energies have been deflected onto the Fslklands, by your governments.
Direct your energies, and in your case, hatred and bile towards the ones who are really stealing from you and screwing you out of your rightful heritage - the band of thrives that are your government.

Go spit and hiss elsewhere. Deal with your problems like the mature superior society you claim to be.
Start with a rule of Law.

As the “Americans” say, “Happy Thanksgiving”!
121 Yuleno (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 10:39 am Report abuse
Troy
Thank you for the concern you display for my happiness.Its kind people that cheer me up.Thank you.However I must disagree with your view of the Malvinas issue.I don't want that to affect your thoughtfulness however.I'm an optimist in the disagreements can be resolved if people talk.
Poppy
Why have you descended to childishness.It doesn't do your credibility any good.Try and stay even tempered and calm.Your opinion is no greater than any other poster,is it?
As with troy(the sensitive) Happy thanksgiving to you and your compatriot yankeeboy.
122 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
“our opinion is no greater than any other poster,is it?”

The was my point Yuleno.....as is for your childishness statements........an opinion of which you have made no point on. You have made no pints on your beloved leader being effective...or good for Argentines, no points on the Falkland Islands. I've always had this impressive that you are one of the elders of the la camporas.
I think you hate the fact that the people of the Falklands have some pretty strong supporters.
BTW Yuleno, I have a friend that works at the bank that China recently bought.....really crazy there.....they are expecting some job losses this coming year. When is Argentina changing to the yuan?
123 Yuleno (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
Poppy
You are still being childish.
China is interested in Argentina but the USA isn't is it.
124 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 09:52 pm Report abuse
Childish that Standard bank employees will be losing jobs? There are now working like madman, and not madison ave, at verifying books. Then a lgood deal will be sent packing.
Everyone that speaks in contrast to you is childish, or speaking drivel. You are mush like the cunt kirchner who refuses to hear reality and keeps their head up their asshole as they blame everyone else for their sorrows.
125 Yuleno (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 01:37 pm Report abuse
Great post poppy.Your are so perceptive and concise.You're a top poster,and undeniably.
126 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 03:19 pm Report abuse
That opinion of your post#125 is where all of you posts and opinions reside. What is you thoughts on the trending down to nothing trade surplus? I do feel the the RG's including my extended family.....but they all need to feel the suffering from her policies to gain wealth for herself.
Yuleno......do you think hanging publicly or a single 125 grain(jacketed or such a mess) 9mm through the stem just above the neck is better for the beloved dear leader when the people finally revolt?
127 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 05:27 pm Report abuse
@116 Yuleno

“Poppy they are occupiers of argentina's territory not British territory.But bear in mind that its land they are occupying.Argentina is the land where mixed ethnic people live and all are equal in the constitution.”

Yuleno, please explain why The Falklands are Argentine, as you state above, or how in regard to what I have asked you, do you personally or as a people, have any connection to the land or the culture of the Falklands?

“There is nobody in Argentina in living memory who lived in the Falklands, had any connection or experience of the islands, and your lives and culture have not been shaped or influenced by the Falklands. You cannot even claim a nostalgic longing for a way of life lost to Argentines.”

You seem to be very sure of yourself, you must have some solid reasons, or are they just 'drivel'?

Are you La Campora, by chance? I would be interested know if you support CFK and her policies, especially when up to a million people are actively protesting against the corruption of her government.
128 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 07:02 pm Report abuse
I originally got the impression the Yuleno was a Cuban Communist. But from some of his posts, I think he is a south american Mestizo, which explains a lot of his anger issues. The minorities in the USA went through that angry phase as well, but for the most part got over it.
If he is la campora he is possibly a field organizer, I can't see him with strategic leadership skills, but then again when you release something like, whatever sussie is, I suppose the skills needed are not that demanding to acquire.
Though I will say yuleno's diversion skills are much more subtle.
129 Yuleno (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 07:13 pm Report abuse
Troy how are there british people living on las Malvinas.Why are las Malvinas on a decolonisation committees list.
130 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
Yuleno, are you feeling left out that I did not wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, as well?

I don't know of any Malvinas.

Why are there no Argentinians in the Falklands except by invitation?

You are evading my questions.

Why do you think the Falklands should be Argentinian and not British?

What possible link could any Argentinian have to the Falklands?

Are you a Malvinista?

Are you La Campora?

Do you support CFK and her policies?
Why would you do so when so many people are protesting that her government is corrupt and the economy a shambles?

So far, your replies hold only angry sarcasm and no substance.

As to the Falklands:

Remember: 1850 Convention of Settlement treaty ' State of Perfect Harmony had been restored between Britain and Argentina'.

Remember: Address to Argentine Congress by President Sariento on 1 July 1869 in which he said, 'The country had no claims on other nations'.

Remember: No claims on sovereignty submitted by Argentina between 1850 and 1941 - a gap of 50 years or more between claims on sovereignty means that any previous claim is considered defunct.

In conclusion, the self-governing Falklands are British and the inhabitants will formally exercise their self-determination to remain British, as supported by the UN Charter, in an internationally observed referendum in 2013.

As off course as we are now, how are things going with that Frigate??
November 29 and 30 should be interesting. It will look nice in New York or Boston.
Perhaps US Sea Cadets will visit harbours around the world on goodwill tours.
131 Yuleno (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 10:14 pm Report abuse
Are you getting annoyed after being so kind to me earlier Troy.
The lengthy post at 130# has many questions.Therefore it does not contain much claim to the continued occupation of las Malvinas.The UN decolonisation committee,like myself and many others have heard all these fact before,and they must sound valid to the people who keep repeating them.Will you tell me why that is the case?Is it an oversight Troy or is there some other reason?
The meaning of thanksgiving day must be very important to you Troy.It does reflect your willingness to credit some other force for the injustices visit upon others.And also provide you with the sustenance to persist in the injustices under the guise of a civilising agent.Great comfort to you and your friends is it?

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