Saturday, November 17th 2012 - 23:29 UTC

Argentina in last minute effort argues possible ‘technical default’ before Judge Griesa

Argentina asked a US judge late Friday night to maintain his order blocking payment on defaulted sovereign bonds to holdout investors until lingering questions are settled in a higher court's appeals process.

Judge Griesa, Cristina Fernandez and Paul Singer involved in what will be a ‘lead case’

Less than 15 minutes before a midnight deadline, Argentina's lawyers filed their brief outlining why US District Judge Thomas Griesa should reject the argument by holdout creditors to pay them in full on debt that has been in default since 2002.

The arguments came three days after Argentina asked the US 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York to reconsider its October 26 ruling that favoured these holdout bondholders and rattled financial markets in the process.

That decision upheld the ruling made by Griesa that found Argentina discriminated against bondholders such as Elliott Management Corp's NML Capital Ltd and Aurelius Capital Management. They refused to take part in two debt restructurings as Argentina tried to recover from a 95bn dollars default a decade ago.

Griesa had put his own ruling on hold pending the appeal and Argentina on Friday argued he should keep the freeze in place until outstanding issues were settled.

“The Court should not accept the false urgency plaintiffs are trying to create and allow the Republic and all potentially affected third parties to prosecute their appeal rights before any orders go into effect,” Argentina said in its brief.

“Plaintiffs’ unprecedented demand for over one billion dollars from the fiscal reserves of a foreign state, with further demands to follow as more ‘me too’ plaintiffs pile in, had the immediate, intended effect on the market of sending it into disarray,” Argentina said in its brief. “Faced with losses already, third-party bondholders have asked the court to protect their interests.”

After the 2nd Circuit's ruling, Argentine officials were widely cited in the media saying they would flout the court and continue to pay investors who participated in the debt swaps but would never pay the holdout investors.

That prompted Griesa to demand a direct government pledge to comply with his orders.

National Director of Argentina's National Bureau of Public Credit, Francisco Eggers, submitted a signed affidavit saying the government would abide by the court's rulings and not seek to evade its directives.

“As directed by the court, on behalf of the Republic, I confirm that the Republic has complied, and will comply with the terms...,” Eggers said.

Last month's ruling led to fears US courts could ultimately inhibit debt payments to creditors who accepted the terms of the restructuring, out of consideration for investors who rejected Argentina's terms at the time.

This would trigger a technical default on approximately 24 billion dollars worth of debt issued in the 2005 and 2010 exchanges.

“It is far beyond the bounds of equity to seek to enforce the rights of one litigant by jeopardizing the rights of others,” lawyers representing a group of bondholders who participated in the exchange, led by Gramercy Funds Management LLC., said today.

The briefs from Argentina and the exchange bondholders addressed two questions that the appeals court had referred back to Griesa for answers.

These were technical questions of how debt payments would be calculated and how to treat the involvement of third-party banks such as Bank of New York Mellon, which act as transfer agents for money owed to exchange bondholders.

Argentine President Cristina Fernandez said immediately following the October decision her country would not pay “one dollar to the vulture funds”, the term used for holdout investors who buy distressed or defaulted debt and then sue in international courts to get paid in full.

In a brief filed late Friday the Bank of New York Mellon, which transfers funds from the Argentine government to the country's bond holders, argued to Judge Griesa that it is not an agent of the Argentine government and maintains an “arm's length” relationship.

The bank said its “duty of loyalty runs to the Exchange holders”, that is, to enforce the rights of investors who exchanged their bonds in 2005 and 2010. “Punishing an innocent third party to try to obtain compliance from an enjoined party goes beyond any legitimate purpose for contempt,” BNY Mellon said.

The bank said it could be put between a rock and a hard place if Griesa rules they are to make payments to all parties but are prohibited because Argentina does not transfer any money through it.

“BNY Mellon will face a potential conflict between its obligations to Exchange Holders under the Indenture and its obligations to the Court,” the bank argued. In that case, the bank said, it needs guidance from Griesa on what its duties and responsibilities would be.

Ultimately, the bank wants Griesa's order to remain in place, leaving the payments frozen until the 2nd Circuit reviews and rules on his logic.

The judge is expected to make a speedy response as Argentina is due to start making 3.3 billion dollars worth of payments to exchange bondholders starting December 2. Griesa's ruling will automatically return to the appeals court for review.

In a court filing this week, NML and Aurelius urged Griesa to lift his February 23 stay on payments pending appeal.

October's ruling by the appeals court largely upheld injunctions issued in February by Griesa in favour of the holdouts, which own roughly 1.4bn of defaulted debt. The holdouts said in their argument to Griesa that terms of the swapped Argentine bonds may allow the country to circumvent the United States by using subsidiaries in London and Luxembourg to make debt payments.

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1 surfer (#) Nov 17th, 2012 - 11:44 pm Report abuse
Looks like another default's on the way, who on earth lends money to these people.
2 Raven (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:01 am Report abuse
What a web has been weaved. I'll give Argentina credit for one thing, they know how to stitch up the financial institutions and play them at their own game.

Default part 2 coming up...

It looks like only Venezuala will be lending to Argentina in future no matter what the outcome. After all, if you have to chase Sovereign debt through the (many) courts...
3 British_Kirchnerist (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:06 am Report abuse
Good luck to Argentina and Cristina, the vultures deserve nothing
4 Pirate Love (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:07 am Report abuse
the longer this goes on the more damage argentina recieves through scared off warey investors and still inevitably have to pay off debt collectors, what a master stroke .
!Crustina for president! yay...
there will be no need for another UK conflict while argentina is doing such a good job on itself, long term damage incoming!!!!
5 ElaineB (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:13 am Report abuse
The investors deserve the return on their bonds.

Interesting how CFKC arrogantly tells Argentines that they can pay but won't pay, whilst they plead poverty in the courts.
6 nigelpwsmith (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:34 am Report abuse
The way I read this, Argentina is deliberately seeking a way to default, so they can hold onto the funds they promised to pay.

As Raven suggests, this is Default Part 2. They failed to pay the first bonds, entered into a restructuring and now they are attempting to default on these bonds.

In finance, there is such a thing as Hire Purchase. This means that the object you are buying is not yours, it belongs to the finance company until you make the final payment. In Britain, people would call this the “Buying on the Never, Never”, because the payments were so high (to take account of the risk) that most people never completed the final payment. So the goods would never belong to the hirer.

What Argentina has done is redefine “the Never, Never” to mean that they will always find an excuse to 'never, never' pay their bonds. In other words, if you lent them money, more fool you as you'll never see this money returned.

What it means for the rest of the world though, is that they cannot trust Argentina to pay debts, so they have to deny Argentina access to the financial system.

What this means for Argentina (in the long run) is that they would not be able to export or import goods that they need - except through third parties like Mercosur (by paying a hefty premium for this) and by being forced to pay up front - so that the Mercosur neighbour doesn't get stiffed with the bill.

More importantly, it means that they will find it increasingly difficult to buy oil, except from Venezuela. The problem with this though is that the type of crude in Venezuela needs to be mixed with the crudes from the Arabian Gulf and without access to that crude, Argentina will run dry.

So we can expect Argentina to default on the debts, refuse to pay them through Europe and then be denied access to the US financial system, followed by an import/export crisis and even more financial trouble at home. The riots will get louder and louder as more people realise the dictator needs to be hung.
7 Pirate Love (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 01:43 am Report abuse
@6 so what your saying is it would be an excellent time to stockpile all them shiny new pots and pans for export to argentina at a premium, to keep up with supply and demand. everybodys a winner except Crustina!
8 nigelpwsmith (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:06 am Report abuse
@7 Yes, because they won't be able to import those new pots and pans once Argentina defaults on the debts.

Let's hope that this time, rather than just banging those pots and pans together to make a noise, they use them to bang CFK's head until it's flattened.
9 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:23 am Report abuse
@5 & 6 good analysis.
10 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:47 am Report abuse
BK still there in your cafe somewhere in the Capital Federal district sipping your cafe con crema, tell me why they are vultures? Because cuntina called them vultures because they refuse to take 10 to 20 cents on the dollar for money legally owed to them that was, with full consent of the Argentine government that accepted and used that money?
11 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:58 am Report abuse
According to the U.S. newz, the chances of an appeal changing anything are rare.
12 yankeeboy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:45 am Report abuse
Could another default be because CFK and cronies want it? Blame teh USA for it? Keep the $ they would hvae used to pay the interest, maybe CFK and cronies have bought bonds and default insurance to make a few bucks too, y
you know they don't care about the people of Argentina....

Seems logical to me

Do you think the Argentines are stupid enough to believe her lies..
they have so far..
13 LightThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:58 am Report abuse
-- 12

If only you could choose the name -- Cowboy --instead of this one as a man who never seen USA yet.
14 yankeeboy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:37 am Report abuse
13. Your google translate is tiring.
Go bother some other board please
15 ptolemy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
@6...“Argentina is deliberately seeking a way to default, so they can hold onto the funds they promised to pay.”

Interesting analysis and credible too, because it sounds very Argentine.
16 Conqueror (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 02:55 pm Report abuse
“The Court should not accept the false urgency plaintiffs are trying to create and allow the Republic and all potentially affected third parties to prosecute their appeal rights before any orders go into effect,” Argentina said in its brief.

“Plaintiffs’ unprecedented demand for over one billion dollars from the fiscal reserves of a foreign state, with further demands to follow as more ‘me too’ plaintiffs pile in, had the immediate, intended effect on the market of sending it into disarray,” Argentina said in its brief. “Faced with losses already, third-party bondholders have asked the court to protect their interests.”

Lawyers' gobbledeegook. I haven't noticed any “false urgency”. The 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals referred the case back to the District Court for clarification. Griesa has already said that argieland's stated reserves are more than adequate. So what's the truth? Argieland doesn't have the reserves it declared? Or it just doesn't want to pay? When did the third-party bondholders ask for protection? They are already out 70%. But the original ruling says that argieland must pay all bondholders equally. So just a case of paying the “hold-outs” in proportion. Does anybody know how many bondholders argieland is paying with the US$3.3 billion?
17 yankeeboy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:01 pm Report abuse
Either they have U$40B in reserves or they don't

I think I know the answer to that already

What is kind of hilarious is they say one thing in NY and another in BA like nobody has access to the BA news in NY

There is no dollar clam but it is working fine.

We don't' have the money to pay but we have the most reserves in SA.


18 Pugol-H (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 03:50 pm Report abuse
@ 6 nigelpwsmith
Interesting line of reasoning.

Other than that, it is yet another battle, in yet another war, on yet another front, that the administration of CFK is slowly but surely losing.

The financial costs alone of fighting these things must be considerable. Never mind the damage to the credibility of, and confidence in, the country.

Soon most of the money being invested in Argentina will be laundered drugs money, as legitimate investment goes elsewhere.
19 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:24 pm Report abuse
You are not an American ,probábly you know moré than élse,

We don't know,Could you eñumeraté all Argentina foréign débts in maturities and to where. ?

please don't lét us béñighted.
20 Conqueror (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 04:58 pm Report abuse
@19 We can eliminate all argie debts in a very short period. Take your place in the queue for the extermination booth. Ex-pats must be included or they will become responsible for argie debts. No hanging back. Take responsibility for the first time in your miserable existence. It will be humane. Place your head against the block and watch the wrecking ball. Closer, closer, closer. Splat! Justice for the genocides!
21 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:01 pm Report abuse
Yankeeboy = Conqueror .. ??
22 surfer (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:21 pm Report abuse
last chance saloon.

such a slippery customer, cheating, lying, twisting and turning, Argentina's Govt. now has to face up to their responsibilities. A long time coming but justice will be served.
23 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:28 pm Report abuse
Seemíngly Conqueror and Yankeeboy are the sámé person.

He ís a lucky guy whó has doúble passports.
24 surfer (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
looks like it's no longer a question of 'if' rather 'when'. Insurance rates for (non payment of) Argentine Govt. bonds is through the roof!
25 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
@LightThink and TipsyThink. Well well well. The game is up for you, its clear that as your using TipsyThink username to now accuse another poster of using more than one username, like you have accused me in the last 2 days when you were posting as LightThink, that you LightThink and TipsyThink are indeed one and the same person - Well who would have thought that.

Your a Troll, full stop!!!
26 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse

Your attention is very admirable !

Thats true that Tipsy/Light Thinks are mine

at least i confess my names unlike others.
27 ElaineB (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:12 pm Report abuse
Why not ignore the paranoid android troll.

Time zones. Names. Who gives a flying fig?

I can smell real desperation in the recent actions of the Argentine Government. They know everything is about to come tumbling down. Maybe that is why Timerman is out of the country so much.
28 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:20 pm Report abuse
#23 all you trolls think everyone is one of the same based on the trolls creed and M.O.
29 TipsyThink (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:20 pm Report abuse

I do want to discuss somethings with you at “....horce racing book attracts.....”” article....but it is not open. !
30 Raven (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:37 pm Report abuse
@ 27 ElaineB

Timerman must be out looking for some more property to buy outside Argentina. his little bolt hole in Uruguay might be a bit too close when the house of cards comes crashing down.

CFK really has been throwing up a smokescreen. She says there are plenty of reserves in the bank, yet Venezuela recently paid $3billion to the IMF on Argentinas behalf. Why would Venezuela do that and why would CFK ALLOW them to do that? Fair enough, it could be argued that she likes spending other peoples money, but another country paying for Sovereign Debt that isnt theirs? for a country that claims to have $46billion in reserves?

Now she risks Argentina defaulting again by playing this game in the courts.

Is the real truth that Argentina are close to broke (genuinely) and they really can't afford the repayments? Has she been paying the 7% holdouts and when did that cease? and if so, why? She's had plenty of time since 2010 to bleat about ''vulture funds'', why has she started now?
31 Brit Bob (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:48 pm Report abuse
Argentina is regarded as a Pariah State by some international money lenders and its bond yields are even eclipsing those of Greece. There is much speculation that the Banana Republic will default.
32 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
@30 woah.
33 Beef (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:24 pm Report abuse
On 2nd December I will be enjoying the top deck of the Emirates A380 from Dubai to Hong Kong (short stop in Bangkok). En-route I will write a business plan for a new Limited Company, Beef Black Market Trading. I will specialise in making profit by selling items to Argentines who will not be able to get them from legitimate sales points Dept Stores etc. Imagine the mark up I could make!!!!

I will start selling to the politicians first. :) What other people see as difficulty I see as opportunity.
34 briton (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:31 pm Report abuse
If it was others that owed Argentina money,

These Argies on here would be screaming pay pay pay,
What bloody hypocrites,

You had the money, so stop complaining and pay the bloody debt,
But you cant , she cant, and the truth will come out, argentina is broke, she has given it all away to her bank,
And its people are about to find out the hard way,
We could be totally wrong, and se will turn up hand over the cash, and make us all look silly.[not]
35 ChrisR (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
We discuss whether the ordinary citizen in AG understands what is going on in their country.

Obviously a lot of them do, that is why they are out pot banging, whatever. But they do NOTHING to change the situation.

Come the next election for President they will still elect a Peronist with all that it implies for corruption and all the rest.

If anybody doubts me just look on the Clarin ‘comments’ to articles involving the government and / or TMBOA. At least half of them are like the trolls on here: blind abeyance to the status quo. A significant number end their posts with Viva Peron!

How typical of the larger population they are is anybody’s guess

You just could not make this nonsense up.
36 ElaineB (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:51 pm Report abuse
@30 It is not surprising. It was Venezuela that funded Nestor's 'model'. Argentina did not pay off the money owed to the IMF, Chavez did by buying billions of dollars of Argentine bonds. It is well documented. It is also why CFKC speaks to Chavez on a daily basis and does whatever he tells her to do. Venezuela owns Argentina.
37 scarfo (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:55 pm Report abuse

CFK really has been throwing up a smokescreen. She says there are plenty of reserves in the bank, yet Venezuela recently paid $3billion to the IMF on Argentinas behalf. Why would Venezuela do that and why would CFK ALLOW them to do that?

Probably part of a payment plan for getting into Mercosur
38 briton (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 08:58 pm Report abuse
So to all the argie indocronoughts,
It is CFK and her government that is broke,
So please don’t pass the buck ..

you can always kick her out.
39 Ayayay (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:31 pm Report abuse
@36 Ahh.

With Venezuela's ppl out of frijoles, aceite, harina de arepa, while Argentines are relatively rich?

The TRIPLING of the price of oil commodities, mathematically, would have raised much more Venezuelans UP. Instead, Venezuela's debt/gdp, thru Chavez spending, is humongoid.

A Bolivar is less valued on the street in 2012 than a nice swath of toilet paper.
Solution: bidets. I love them.
40 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:50 pm Report abuse
@26 Light/TipsyThink

Just because you use more than one username, it doesn't mean the rest of us do! So answer me this, why should i confess to something that is not true, just because you think it is true? Exactly, You can't answer me that can you, because you think that just because you do it, that i and everyone else does too, which is flawed logic, because just because some other users to it, it doesn't mean i do it. Only evidence you have is circumstancial and based mainly on your own opinion that i (Teaboy2) and poster using the username Teaboy are one and the same when we are not. As anyone could have used the name Teaboy and am certainly not the only person in the world that goes by the name Teaboy2 , so a bet whoever it is that used the username Teaboy is not the only person to use that username on the internet either.

@27 - Don't worry Elaine, i reported him for his IP address to be banned just like i did Guzz last week, so don't be surprised to see no more posts from LightThink/TipsyThink or anyother username he uses, one of which is possibly Isooooooldeisskrate (or however its spelt)! lol
41 ElaineB (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:47 pm Report abuse
I honestly don't mind opposing views and good debate.... I really enjoy hearing another view.

What is tiresome is the silly distraction posts. What does it matter what names we use or where we post from? It is easy to spot a person pretending to be something they are not. Or an attention seeker. Or an out and out looney.
42 surfer (#) Nov 18th, 2012 - 11:58 pm Report abuse
I wonder how the conversation would go if everyone here met up in a bar, would it end up being a laugh or a mass brawl? Probably both
43 nigelpwsmith (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:08 am Report abuse
@30 good analysis.

I agree that Argentina is very likely to be broke. They cannot declare this - because it would mean the end of the gravy train. Possibly even the end of their lives if they don't make it to the private jet on time!

So they are looking for a reasonable excuse to default on the debts. They've decided to use the hold outs. They use the term 'vultures' to identify them as the enemy to the Argentine people & claim that these funds are seeking to enrich themselves at the expense of ordinary Argentines.

Argentina suggests to the US courts that it would not be equitable to pay these people at the expense of those that did reach agreement to a restructure. They've also suggested (unsuccessfully) that if Argentina was forced to pay, that there would not be enough funds & a default would be the result. The problem is that this claim is not backed up by other statements which maintain that Argentina has $ billions of reserves.

It seems to me that the payments made by Chavez (indicated in @ 37 above) were a favour/bribe to CFK to enable Mercosur membership. Similarly, the suitcases stuffed with dollars were a personal bribe to CFK's family and her cronies.

I have no doubt that CFK's mafia have been bleeding the treasury dry, just as CFK stole the +$650 millions from Sante Fe province and placed it in her private bank accounts in Switzerland. If Argentina ever did have $36 billion in resources, they've long ago made their way to the land of chocolate & cuckoo clocks!

This would explain why the Argentine state is refusing to pay the small amount needed to release their flagship. $10 million is nothing in financial terms, in comparison to the gratitude that the people would have given for the return of their 'heroes' from Ghana.

Only $10 million would have set a precedent. It would have shown that CFK was prepared to deal with the 'vultures' contrary to her claims to the opposite.

Let's face it, Argentina is broke. They have no reserves = NO PAYMENT.
44 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:35 am Report abuse
@41 What matters is, i do not take accusations about me lightly and will defend against such untrue accusations, which we all have the right to do, whether it be from a troll, a looney or a dislusioned person. End of the day people reading these comments that are not regulars here on the forum are not going to be able to easily judge whos whos here or whos the deluded one, so am not going to let them say what they want for people to then think am using mulitple usernames to troll, when in fact its LightThink etc. Same for any other form of accusations. I have been called a pedo on this site by some argentines and so have others been called pedo or other things!

End of the day am not going to just take it, and as Guzz found out when he insulted the memory of those that gave their lives in war and peace this rememberance sunday, i will get them banned. So role on Tuesday as i doubt LightThink or any of his other usernames he uses will be bothering anyone after then.
45 ElaineB (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:59 am Report abuse
@44 Fair play to you. I completely understand your point of view.

Personally, I have had all kinds of accusations and insults thrown my way on this board. I take comfort in them being so far off the mark that no one I care about would ever think they were true.

I tend to live by the idea that if I respect a person and they criticise me, I will think carefully about their advice. If I don't respect a person or their opinion I ignore it.
46 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:25 am Report abuse
@45 well i understand and respect that Elaine.

Though in my experience i can not ignore what people say about me, though that stems from a business point of view more than what is said online, unless am directly mentioned by name or actively involved in the dicussion like i am on these boards. Reason being is, if i ignore it and buisness contacts hear it, then it can do untold damage to my reputation or that of my businesses reputation, even the smallest of deterimental comments can cause potential damage, costing hundreds if not thousands of pounds.

The last untrue accusation was by a local girl that claimed i had made her pregnant, and in this town, gossip spreads like wild fire. But shes not the first, i have had a number of people making false accusation or false statements about me or my company, though mainly they have been driven by the thought they could get some money out of me, though instead they get a letter from my solicitor demanding the pay damages and a public apology posted on their facebook pages usually, as thats where all their firends whom thought they were telling the truth will see it and realise they were lying. The other option is for them to be taken to court for libel/slander.

Hell even other companies are just as bad, i have had a few try it on, one even said i was in breach of their trade mark, because my company name was the same as their trading name, yet they weren't even a company or even supplied the same products! So they ended up with egg on their faces when i told them if anyone was in breach of trade mark etc. It is them since they are not a limited company using a trading name that is the same as my limited companies name.

So yes i guess as a result i have grown to be defensive when untrue or false accusationas are made about me or my company etc. But it was out of a matter of necessity, because if i weren't defensive they'd be walking all over me and my company and exploiting the advantage they gained from it to the max.
47 ElaineB (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:42 am Report abuse
@46 If someone had maligned one of my companies I would have gone in hard with lawyers.

Now I work freelance I could care less and that is liberating. : )
48 Idlehands (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:20 am Report abuse
As Eggers has signed to confirm Argentina will abide by the court ruling then I assume they will end up paying the holdouts in equal proportion to their payments to the rest.

However I have a feeling that they only did that so that they can continue down their legal avenues (which would have stopped had they not) and that they will still refuse to obey the court if all appeals fail to find in their favour.
49 TipsyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse

Teaboy is a name from Chris..
If you don't believe me ,ask to Captain Yankeeconqueror.
50 Zhivago (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:39 pm Report abuse
TT 49
“If you don't believe me ,ask to Captain Yankeeconqueror”
And he doesn't use translation software!!
Idjit rabbit!
51 nigelpwsmith (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:50 pm Report abuse
@48 There's two ways of thinking about it.

Either they don't have the money and any legal action is a delaying tactic designed to elicit a judgment which Argentina can then refuse to agree to...


As they've made a statement that they will not pay the hold outs or 'vultures' and they do not want to lose face by being seen to go back on their word, they are willing to risk defaulting with all the horrible consequences if they are ordered to pay everyone equally.

It seems to me fairly obvious that they are playing for time. They've never paid the debts due to the United States, much to the annoyance of the President. CFK tried to get the US to back her Falklands claim at the recent conference, but Obama refused. He knows that he's dealing with a mad woman, off her medication.

I honestly believe that they do not have the funds to settle and even if the Judge allowed them to pay only the restructured bonds, then they would still find some excuse not to pay. This appeal is a time waster.
52 ljb (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 12:58 pm Report abuse
I'm embarrassed for ordinary Argentine's. Their politicos seem hell bent on making Argentina look stupid.
53 JIB (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 01:24 pm Report abuse
It seems to be the FED has presented a document to Judge Griesa in favour of Argentina's position. Brilliant.
54 Conqueror (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:06 pm Report abuse
@49 Don't be more of an arse than you already are.
@51 Just think about it this way. When was the last time argieland told the truth?
@52 Don't be. They not only elected 'em, they re-elected 'em. That has to take a particular brand of stupidity.
55 Idlehands (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
53 JIB

If you mean this:

...then it's dated April 2012 so is a little old to be relevant any more.
56 TipsyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 02:24 pm Report abuse

Here is the proof,

You can add the crew Zhivago to the Captain Yankeeconqueror ship.
57 yankeeboy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:07 pm Report abuse
53. It is a friend of the court petition not anything out of the ordinary. It doesn't side with Argentina, I am sure it came about from BNY Mellon because the Judge is putting them in a very tight spot.
Either they do what the client wants (Argentina) or the Courts or the Bondholders. They're in a pickle and it really isn't good business to put a 3rd party in the middle because their clients are trying to skirt the law.

I think Griesa is smart and he'll figure out a way to get everyone or no one paid and put Argentina in a corner. He is sick to death of the RG antics and has reached the end of his rope.

We should hear shortly
58 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:10 pm Report abuse
If not for Cuba and Venezuela, Argentina would be the lowest-ranked Latin American country in the Heritage Foundation’s 2012 Index of Economic Freedom. It ranks 158th overall (out of 179 countries or territories). EXTREME LEFTISM HAS FAILED IN ARGENTINA

21st-century Peronism has squandered a commodity boom, destroyed an economy, and made Argentina a global pariah
59 TipsyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
you can't conquer by talkíng yourself only wandering on intérnet.
60 brits are pavos (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 03:49 pm Report abuse
yes the UK team have many screen names to insult the argentinians, they are missing the Junta
61 Idlehands (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:03 pm Report abuse
60 brits are pavos

Why would people need multiple user IDs just to insult?
62 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:08 pm Report abuse
It seems they have no relevant arguements left.

A “Sussie” variant has appeared - the Angel of Death for any thread.

Please Editor, shut it down.
63 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
The real reason the trolls use many personalities/ID's is that they want to appear that there are more than all 4 argentines that actually support the great incompetent one that they loving call their el presidente'
64 Conqueror (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
@60 Never mind. Just because argies are puercos. Don't be jealous, Sussie.
65 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
“21st-century Peronism has squandered a commodity boom, destroyed an economy, and made Argentina a global pariah”

Global pariah is a bad thing? If it means not being friends with the likes of the USA, IMF, UK, Spain, Germany, Italy, China, France, et al, which seek to screw us over at any nook and corner... then I'm a proud pariah.
66 brits are pavos (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 05:06 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
67 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 05:19 pm Report abuse
IMF and the vulture should never be payed a single dollar since neither of them exercise accountability for Argentina tax payers, and now we Argentine want to see what we are paying for, we don't want the bill since we all know the theft that took place we want to see the things we invested in and built with it, we will not be paying for a paper with signatures on it, we got lot of papers in Argentine and an infinite amount of people who can sign, mean time let the retards cry us a river.
68 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 05:23 pm Report abuse
See, foreigner fiends, we don't want your advice and we don't heed your demands. Now go away and by the way fix your broken countries before passing judgement on ours.
69 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
Perhasps Argentina should due as other nations have after their collapse, rename their country. Maybe they will havae a better chance at starting over again for the umpteenth time. Let us think, what could the new replacement name for Argentina be? Any guees guys?

Republica del Perdon'
Republica de Volver a Empezar
República de Idiotas Viejos
70 Brit Bob (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 07:01 pm Report abuse
The IMF are coming on the 17th December - be afraid Argentina, be very afraid as those numbsculls INDEC are still putting out your inflation figures at around 9% per anum..
71 briton (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 07:07 pm Report abuse
perhaps CFK would rather this ship just went away,

she certainly has no interest in it..
72 MurkyThink (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 08:07 pm Report abuse
Who are these more than all 4 Argentines ?
73 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 08:41 pm Report abuse
Definitely 3....suzzie stand out all by itself whatever she writes. Alex Vargas...aka pirate hunter is a radical and delussional “nuke em all”....seems to think RGs have money, but then he is really a Canadian, Than as for the rest........who knows what they are.
74 Teaboy2 (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
@72 - You should know as your one of them aren't you MurkyThink/LightThink/Tipsythink, hell you can't even decide which username to use!

Though we probably won't have to worry about you for much longer lol.
75 Joe Bloggs (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 10:42 pm Report abuse
63 Captain Poppy

Four? I can only count three. Well I suppose if you give Dove the benefit of the doubt that he's not Think. That could make four I guess.
76 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 19th, 2012 - 11:58 pm Report abuse
No one can argue that IMF was a scam since everyone dealing with them ended up loosing their own constitutional rights for worthless english papers, Argentines want to see what we are paying for, we want accountability from both IMF and our government only then we can move forward, I don't think being open and honest could ever be a problem unless there is too much crime to hide! Lol
77 Ayayay (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 12:01 am Report abuse
Countries that have always had smooth sailing! (no full-on default):

•Canada •U.S.A. •Belgium
•Finland •New Zealand •Norway •Singapore •Thailand •Malaysia •Mauritius •Switzerland •England.

•1841 Mississippi, in the “Deep South” STILL hasn't payed bonds.
•1865: Whole Deep South defaults in Civil War.
•1873 Mostly 'Red' states/Deep South) in the Long Depression
•1933 Great Depression (Arkansas, Deep South region, defaults)
78 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 12:07 am Report abuse
It's not your government piss holer, you're a Canadian. The only consitiutional rights lost would be any stupid leader that would sign them away. Argentina had choices.....borrow money, or not borrow money. One concept that is required for a society to be considered a country.........continuing concern, that all actions, treaties and deals made by previous administration will be honored by future administrations, without that, you may as well be Somalia. Of course, leadership wise, Argentina is near being there.
If the IMF, WB and such is so bad, I do not see a vast amount of the 212 nations on the earth spewing vomit like Argentina. But then again, no one has mismanaged credit as bad as the RG's and defaulted to the level of the RG's. I guess when you can not get credit, the concept is evil.
79 Ayayay (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 12:47 am Report abuse
There you go, PH. World Bank from 2012 on will publish ALL pending contracts online so CITIZENS of theit countries can REVIEW them. Be Argentina's watchdog!
80 jakesnake (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 04:10 pm Report abuse
@2 BK, can you, without your usual creepiness, explain in detail why they are vultures and why they deserve nothing? Based on your typical posts, I've always thought of you as a slow adult, and a perverted one at that, so I'm giving you a chance to articulate on this board.....1) What makes them “vultures”? 2) Why they deserve nothing?

This is your chance to look like a smart guy and not a tool like you typically do. Can you do that BK?
81 jakesnake1 (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
OK, now I look like a tool. I meant @3, not @2.
82 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 05:33 pm Report abuse
Good luck Jake, I've been asking for some time. Also, as an alledged Scotsman, I've been asking why he has never visited Argentina. He's actually an RG and quite possibly the bastard of bunoes aires.....nont other than Fatsimo the Fat Fucking Kirchner! With an Oedipus complex over mom.
83 ProRG_American (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
84 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 07:08 pm Report abuse
#83 Now the bankers are not such a bad guy because the support, not so much as Argentina, but are against banks being told what to do. You do realize that in my country the USA, the Central Bank, The Federal Reserve, is not subject to the president or Congress and the just as the Judical system is an independent entity. Unless a reasonable argument is made that the ruling would cause chaos to every country in the world, nothing will change.
85 agentscrewed (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 08:52 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
86 Pirat-Hunter (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 10:11 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
87 Ayayay (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
@86 not in democracies
88 Zhivago (#) Nov 20th, 2012 - 11:18 pm Report abuse
85 Sussie Us
Sussie you have to do something about that rage, and your grammar!!
89 Srta.Sussie (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:09 am Report abuse
what? mr.briton aka zhivago?
I enjoy posting in this port-a-john grammar crap web site
90 Zhivago (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:24 am Report abuse
I am confident enough to post under the same name, unlike you! Now go wash your pie!
91 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 02:10 am Report abuse
Comment removed by edit0r.
92 Zhivago (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:03 am Report abuse
91 Michel
Please repost but hide the smut, I want to see what you said!
93 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:04 am Report abuse

Who is Michel?
94 Zhivago (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 09:46 am Report abuse
Why Michel de Nostradamus of course!
95 briton (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
we see the CFK indocrinated children are out.
96 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:49 pm Report abuse
They may be out, but they are fading like their economy and government
97 briton (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:56 pm Report abuse
98 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
I do think that whatever happens of this particular case, there will be some action taken, be it international treaties or individual countries, but something will come of this in relation to sovereign debt, restructuring and debt relief. But it also must address limits on what can be given to a soverign nation in times of trouble. A draining man will grab anything near himself to stay afloat. Argentina was that drowning man. I think we need to realize the signals when it is time not to bail a country out of trouble. Let them go into a receivership for like 10 years.
99 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:48 pm Report abuse
“Let them go into a receivership for like 10 years.”

I support your proposal.

The first receiverships in a couple of years will be the EU, UK, and USA. How do you say 'receivership' in Mandarin?
100 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:30 pm Report abuse
Absolutely titti boi. Hey I did miss it....when did they default on the chinese.....and how much does the USA owe the Chinese? as a % of outstanding debt? Argentina holds the “actually defaulted record”. When take talk of argentina, we talk of what actually hapened.......not future guesses.
101 briton (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:28 pm Report abuse
Well put it this way,
If CFK does not do something spectacular pretty soon,
Then fate will take a hand, and do it for her.

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