Wednesday, November 21st 2012 - 07:53 UTC

Cristina Fernandez: “no one is going to pressure me especially with bullying or thugs”

After the first national strike against her administration, Argentine President Cristina Fernández blasted the CGT and CTA-led protest claiming they appealed to “bullying” tactics and called on workers to defend the “economic development and inclusion model”.

For the Argentine president “this was not a strike, it was an intimidation and a threat” (Photo Telam)

“This wasn’t a strike no a picket but an intimidation and a threat” she assured and warned that no one is going to pressure her.

“No one is going to pressure me, especially with threats, bullying or thugs. These are not the leaders that Perón and Evita wanted,” she said in a rally honouring Sovereignty Day in Argentina.

Earlier in the day amidst the massive strike, President Cristina Fernández wondered on her Facebook account (Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner): “Does anyone want to go back to that Argentina with an economic model which was bread for just a few and hunger for everybody or almost everybody?”

The president continued on her message that though it was not aimed to anyone in particular; it appeared as a clear message to the umbrella unions holding the strike: “Because we all know that not all Argentines went through hunger in those days. Normally the first ones that feel the hunger are the working class after losing their jobs.”

“This is why I like to call all my fellow-workers to show some conscious and responsibility in order to defend not this government but this political project that has created more than 5.5 million job posts with the construction industry having a fundamental role.”

Meanwhile, in a statement to a local TV station, the Minister of Interior and Transportation, Florencio Randazzo, said that the strike organized by the union sector is an extortionist measure that is misplaced.

“However, it is not a strike in favour of the workers, as they want to pretend. It runs opposite to the interest of workers, because it affected thousands of people, who wanted to get to work,” Randazzo said, in direct reference to the over 200 roadblocks and pickets which virtually isolated the city of Buenos Aires.

114 comments Feed

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1 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 08:09 am Report abuse
“For the Argentine president “this was not a strike, it was an intimidation and a threat”

So the people have spoken, and instead of listening to what they have got to say, what they want or what they are concerned about, you brush it off as “Threats and bullying”

May I go on record at this point and say that you are not fit to be a leader of that country and you should leave now and never come back.

No, actually stay. It will be fun to watch you get strung up from a tree by your own entrails..........
2 LightThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 08:42 am Report abuse
Do South America blows inspire for you to write these comments in South Africa ?
3 JuanGabriel (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 08:48 am Report abuse
I have to give her credit, she is a master troll. The mother of La Campora can keep a straight face whilst talking about bullying and thugs.
4 MaxAue (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:11 am Report abuse
She's amazing isn't she. How does she come up with all this?
5 LEPRecon (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:25 am Report abuse
A President who refuses to listen to the very people she's meant to represent!

Doesn't sound like democracy to me, sounds more like a dictatorship.

CFKs arrogance appears monumental! Anyone who doesn't follow the party line exactly is a traitor to her. The Rich are traitors, the Middle Class are traitors, the Working Class are traitors!

Well, the only people she appears to have on her side and the poor unemployed people. She'll rapidly lose their support once she can no longer pay them.

Tick, tock, CFK. Your end is nigh!

However, you and your incompetent and impotent government have provided the world with some laughs, in what would've been a rather boring and depressing time. :D
6 Idlehands (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:48 am Report abuse
What is really sad is that the Perons are so ingrained in the Argentine psyche that they cast a shadow over the nation.

Until their status as national heroes is rejected in favour of the truth about their legacy then there is no hope. CFK harks back to them as if they were a shining light in Argentine politics. They weren’t
7 Rufus (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 11:19 am Report abuse
“no one is going to pressure me especially with bullying or thugs”

Pot, meet kettle.
8 kelperabout (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 11:52 am Report abuse
Incredible that CFK is up in arms against bullying. Excuse me for asking but is that not what CFK is doing to the Falkland Islanders. CFK you and your cronnies get what you deserve the same treatment that your lot have handed out to the thousands of innocent people of your Country. You claim to be a democrocy I say it's more like hypocracy. The real truth is that the people of Argentina have had enough of bieng bullied and they are now starting to fight back and good for them it's way overdue. CFK take warning now would be a very good time to start listening to your people or you will end up like all the other dictators that have tried to ruin your Country. Makes one very proud to be British these days.
9 Sir Rodderick Bodkin (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:01 pm Report abuse
She is the last person who should be talking about thugs or bullies.
The only thugs are the ones that surrounds her; D'elia, Moreno, Medina, Oyarbide, Randazzo, Etchegaray and the brainwashed group of La Campora members, etc. The list goes on.
10 Pirate Love (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:22 pm Report abuse
“no one is going to pressure me especially with bullying or thugs”,
yet it is ok for her to adopt them tactics towards others including The Falklands folk, hypocrit she should give peace a chance!
it looks like little princess Crustina does not like the taste of her own medicine.

Argentinas current state is a huge sh*t pie and all argentines including dear leader will have to take a slice, Bon apetite!
11 willi1 (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:26 pm Report abuse
she is a bloody cow and so speaks cowshit. and that since years.
12 briton (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:52 pm Report abuse
to be told off by the toilet paper,
judt for taking a swipe, is bellow the belt.
13 Pete Bog (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 12:53 pm Report abuse
What comes round comes round.

The bully usually ends up being bullied.

Make sure you've got the bolt hole in Chavland CFK, though you've done more good for the image of the Falkland Islands than any other Argentine president.
14 briton (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:04 pm Report abuse
She has proven beyond a doubt the Falklands were and are better of without a gangster and a bully living next door always threatening them.
Up the Falklands,
And down with CFKs government.
15 Anbar (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
turkey neck, ostrich head... 'nuff said.
16 Viscount Falkland (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:18 pm Report abuse
As the late Clive Dunn would say ,“They don't like it up em”. Well, it's down hill all the way for FCK.... all the way to the Furca and Fossa for the lot of them..... and Jorge Lanata for President.
17 MaxAue (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:28 pm Report abuse
The Hypocratic Republic of Argentina :)
18 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:30 pm Report abuse
No one, I say no one is going to pressure me.

Not all the nations that filed trade complains her
Not all the courts in the world that ruled against her
Not the lenders she screwed by not paying them back
Not the oil companies that will not invest in YPF because they stole private assets
Not the leader of the UN that believes all people have the right to govern themselves
Not the masses that demonstrated all over Argentina and the world against Argentina's direction
Not the unions that want Kirchner as a memory

No one is going to pressure you.
19 Benson (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:31 pm Report abuse
“No one is going to pressure me, especially with threats, bullying or thugs. ”
Ditto Cirstina
From the Falklands
20 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
“Does anyone want to go back to that Argentina with an economic model which was bread for just a few and hunger for everybody or almost everybody?”

Is that not a sublime threat itself? Seems like scare tactics to me. Does a day not go by that she cannot invoke the name of Evita Peron? Her legacy is certainly being creataed along side of her God....Evita. She will forever be know as the women that thought she could copy Evita will pillaging Argentina.
21 Foxtrot Indigo (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 02:28 pm Report abuse
One side of the story:
“However, it is not a strike in favour of the workers, as they want to pretend. It runs opposite to the interest of workers, because it affected thousands of people, who wanted to get to work,” Randazzo said“

The other:
”Many of your colleagues told me they can’t because if they do, they will lose their jobs. Well, to me those are not the ideal working conditions. It reveals the pressure put by your bosses to you and to your unions so you don’t join measures like this.”
22 reality check (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

Whatever one does in one's life is one's own responsibility and cannot be changed.


This line originates in Edward Fitzgerald's translation of the poem The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyam, 1859:
23 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:12 pm Report abuse
It must be hard for Chrissy to be able to try to maintain the delusion that all is well as the country falls apart.

It must like what Kahdafi or Saddam thought near the end.
24 ElaineB (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:16 pm Report abuse
“Senator Aníbal Fernández during a radio interview, the official referred to the CGT head as “Augusto Timoteo Moyano” in a clear reference to former Metal workers’ union boss in the 1970s Augusto Timoteo Vandor, who was shot dead at the union’s headquarters hall in 1969 by a five-man commando group after being accused of being a traitor to Perón.”

That is an threat to kill. CFKC's thugs must be very, very afraid.
25 ChrisR (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
Yes, we can all remember comical Alli standing in front of his TV monitors stating that there were no invaders in Bagdad while we could see them for ourselves on the screens behind him.

It was a bit pantoesque as we shouted ‘look out, they are behind you’.

TMBOA is about to learn how he felt and good riddance to her.
26 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 03:38 pm Report abuse

I love Baghdad Alli....he was my favorite standup routine.

I am impressed though that she has not come down with a sympathy illness yet.
27 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:07 pm Report abuse
26. She already looks weak and out of touch recuperation in Santa Cruz may be the tipping point.
She will either get out of dodge in time or be under house arrest soon enough.
I pity the next ruler.
That place is a mess and people are out of patience.
28 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:11 pm Report abuse
Going to visit the two new metro lines (C and D), that they should be breaking ground on (with Mendoza money). Also gonna read upon the start of construction of our 7th expressway, the Mendoza-San Juan (with Mendoza money).

Gonna check the new mall in Dorrego next to where my childhood home was in the Barrio Alimentacion. The first LED mall in the world with indoor and outdoor integrated tree forest, they say.

Mendoza, always going forward no matter what happens in the rest of the country or planet.
29 Foxtrot Indigo (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:16 pm Report abuse

What has any of that got to do with this article?

Lets hope there isn't another strike or you won't be able to get there! Even if you do, there won't be anyone working there as they'll all be on strike.
30 ElaineB (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:21 pm Report abuse
@28 Clinging to 'I'm alright so pull up the ladder'? If your country defaults there will be no hiding place.

However, if Mendoza were to become independent....
31 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:28 pm Report abuse
First of all IF Argentina defaults, nothing will happen. The country has operated for 10 years under default conditions. This is not 2001 when the whole economy was leveraged 3 times to foreign debt.

Also the currency floats so there is no straightjacket. And commodity prices are high so a base income is still there.

The fact you people keep insisting on a 2001 replay shows your benighted condition of basic economic principles. Sciolism at its best.

Second, even in 2001 the Mendoza GDP shrank less during the crisis and expanded faster during the recovery. Which is why you didn't see the social disturbances in Mendoza compared to Rosario, Buenos Aires, Cordoba.

And remember, Mendoza was the only PROVINCE NOT TO DEFAULT on its debt.

For your reading pleasure:

“How has the province set itself apart even while the rest of the country has floundered? One reason is that Mendoza values fiscal responsibility. During Argentina's worst-ever economic crisis, the province paid off its bondholders -- though it was late doing so on several occasions. Unlike several Argentine provinces, it has never defaulted on its debt.”

Mendoza, Arriba.
32 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:30 pm Report abuse
I assuming new highways, subways, malls are big deals in 3rd world countries like it was in 1st world countries in the 50s.

I guess being only 60 yrs behind the rest of the world is doing good for Argentina.

Toby you should be so proud!
33 Britworker (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
OMG, bullying and thugs, does this woman have no shame, doesn't she realise that this is what she is. All fur coat and no knickers!
34 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:38 pm Report abuse

We had 0 km of mass transit 2 years ago. Now we have 14, and by 2014-2015 probably 30-35km.

That will be enough to break us in the top 10 if we were a city in the mighty USA.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You Americans know all about being behind 60 years.

How are those gas supplies in your most important city New York.
35 Foxtrot Indigo (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:39 pm Report abuse

I assume even in your fabled Mendoza you still use the RG peso right?

1 US $ = 0.627357 GBP
1 US $ = 4.80699 ARS (RG peso)

Your currency doesn't seem to be doing that well to me!
36 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:45 pm Report abuse

For Mendoza we do well with a strong or weak currency. Weak currency means tourism from Chile, and now from all over the world. It means our wines remain competitive, it means we get more revenue as a major oil province. It means our fruits and preserve industry makes more cash, it means our industrial-technology sector (IMPSA, Laviasa, Zaldivar technologies) can beat other competitors in the medical, hydro, wind, and light airplane industries. It means our huge bottled water industry (Villavicencio, Eco de los Andes) can expand further.

We have a very diversified economy, and a strong internal market, we have more malls and supermarkets than Cordoba and Santa Fe, provinces twice as large.

Don't you people see the evidence? Most expressways, only city with metro, more malls and supermarkets, did not default on its debt, leader in wine, tourism, skiing, a growing industrial-tech sector, a city full of trees in what was a desert steppe of thorny shrubs.

Mendoza is Mendoza.
37 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:46 pm Report abuse
34. Except in NYC, Boston and DC only poor people use mass transit in the USA.
All the rest of us have cars.
38 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:52 pm Report abuse
Seems like according the senator fernandez, the government is getting ready to use murder as a tactic against the opposition. AT least that is the threatening implication of his interview.

I think in most any civilized countries in the world, a public statement like that, implying someone is a traitor and Judas get murdered by a comando teams would be considered criminal. I recall all the trolls here screaming about free speech and you can't point fingers at the government. But I guess you can threaten to murder your opposition though.
39 Foxtrot Indigo (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:53 pm Report abuse

You have to admit, killing your opposition in a literal sense is a good way to stay in power!
40 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:56 pm Report abuse
Her presidency runs until 2015. She shall remain president until her legitimate term is over. Nothing more nothing less. The people have no say on that.
41 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 04:59 pm Report abuse
of course in non-democratic counties. Was a tactic of Idi Amin, though he was not killed, he did die in exile in Saudi Arabia. I suspect asslips will die in Venezuela.
42 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:08 pm Report abuse
“One reason is that Mendoza values fiscal responsibility” - that'll be your Chilean heritage.
43 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:11 pm Report abuse
2015..yeah and there is no recession or u$ clamp or inflation or or or or

wait look over there a bullet train to Rosario....
44 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:20 pm Report abuse
The people of argentina have no say in anything under current dictatorships.

I see Formosa is making there dollar dominated bond payment in pesos. Of course because the government will not give up any of their 45 billion U$ reserves ( yeah....right). The US government has a fairly good accountting of all the countries that are holding U$ dollars.

If inflation is just at 10 % in Argentina (Indec), why does asslips need a 28% raise? 40,000 pesos a month to destroy a country in a less than a decades time.....not bad.
45 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:21 pm Report abuse

Let me dispel another great myth spread around the world against Argentina (further proof the world is out to assign us opprobium):

Chile (1826, 1880, 1931, 1961, 1963, 1966, 1972, 1974, 1983) 9 times
Brazil (1898, 1902, 1914, 1931, 1937, 1961, 1964, 1983, 1986–1987, 1990) 11 times
Mexico (1827, 1833, 1844, 1850, 1866, 1898, 1914, 1928-1930s, 1982) 11 times
Venezuela (1826, 1848, 1860, 1865, 1892, 1898, 1982, 1990, 1995–1997, 1998, 2004) 12 times

Argentina (1827, 1890, 1951, 1956, 1982, 1989, 2002) 7 times


United States (1779, 1790, 1862, 1934)

The last US default was a so-called “stealth default”: the USA government simply CONFISCATED all the gold from its citizens and took full control over the value of the US dollar. In essence, the population and foreign investors, who had been promised X amount of gold for their money, got cheated out. That's a default in the classic sense.

So... How about that? I didn't even know. Argentina has defaulted significantly LESS than the other major Latin American countries. And the USA has in fact defaulted itself.

Wow, that really is devastating for all the antis here who use that card on us.
46 ElaineB (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:31 pm Report abuse
@38 Quite. It shows the Argentine government as a bunch of thugs.

The Argentine people have thrown out presidents before and they can do it again.
47 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:33 pm Report abuse
Man you are really reaching lol Only titti boi quotes the resource for idiots book of information, edited and added by ANYONE! Know as wikipedia

Divert....divert....digress and redirect.....calling all trolls.....General quarters.....general quaters....this is no drill...calling all trolls to stretch and reach, digress and divert the main stories!!.

Argentina is taking on more water than she can pump
48 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:34 pm Report abuse
”Let me dispel another great myth spread around the world against Argentina (further proof the world is out to assign us opprobium):”

...yet the information you refer to is on Wikipedia! Nice.
49 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:35 pm Report abuse
“I see Formosa is making there dollar dominated bond payment in pesos.”

If switching methods of payment is a default, then like I said about Captain Pop, your mighty USA has defaulted 4 times. Because it's done exactly that, issued paper promising people X (1790, 1862, and 1934), and then done the big swith-a-rooster and confiscated people's accounts and assets and forced them to accept another method of payment (silver paper dollars vs pure gold).

The USA has been no better than Argentina.
50 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:42 pm Report abuse
@34 Nodtrildoofus

“How are those gas supplies in your most important city New York.”

So, you are provoking reaction again?

Ok, I'll bite. Then, back to the topic.

NYC had power and distribution reductions due to the biggest storm to hit it in a century.

BA has power outages, transformer explosions, transit shutdowns, resulting in hardship and death, all due to a crumbling infrastructure that Argentina does not and chooses not to spend money to maintain.

How about the mass hatred of CFK!!
In the past, Juan and Evita Peron had the unions on their side, and solid worker support. Not now.

Even the unions say she is not a “populist”and against the people.

The CFK government, the protesters say, “these are not the leaders we want”!!

Comical Troll :- )
51 Baked_spud (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:45 pm Report abuse
Just to recap, why is the Mendoza to Tunuyan dual carriageway still unfinished after two years of construction?
I heard the contractors had stopped because they hadn't been paid.
52 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:49 pm Report abuse
I don't think a default will be devastating to the people Argentina in the short term. All of the hard assets have already been stolen from every entity the Ks could get their grimy hands on.
There are no hard assets left in the country. Every hard asset has been replaced with Rg bonds, paying rates BELOW inflation. These bonds are denominated in Pesos, every day the peso is depreciated and soon it will be devalued. So the people of Argentina have been robbed but they have not realized it yet because there is no accounting. Anses is bankrupt. Poof Gone. Pensions will now be paid out of the yearly budget. The next Prez will have to deal with that somehow.

Now here is something else and why I KNOW there is not U$45B in reserves, part of the “reserves” that Arg counts is U$ ( all foreign) money in private accounts in Arg banks. Over U$30B has fled the system in the last 2+yrs yet lo and behold they're still showing U$45B!!
The only way this amount can go up significantly is through trade yet they had a terrible crop last year and overall trade is down significantly yoy. We all know they have paid multi billions out for Int'l bond interest and redemption yet again the U$ 45 B figure doesn't change,
odd huh?
Methinks there is maybe MAYBE $7B in liquid reserves
Gonna be a fun thing to watch very soon...
very soon
53 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:51 pm Report abuse

If your only remaning exit strategy is to say is Wikipedia, then you might as well become an ostrich and find a beach with deep sand.

Why would the information be WRONG? I'm looking at the dates for Argentina defaults and they seem totally plausible:

1827: after the war with Brazil, which was after we had 15 years of war between our independence, our campaigns in Chile and Peru, our actions in Central America and Mexico/California, our failed campaign in Bolivia, etc. Argentina was utterly brok.

1890: the Great financial Panic of 1890 which we all study in school. The economy had built massive lecevrage by growing at 14% rates in the 1880s. Then the panic set in when Argentina's bubble burst, bringing down several London banks and causing an international economic crisis spreading to many countries.

1951: Peron's nationalism wave and reneging on international agreements.

1956: the revoluationary post-Peron gov.

1982: The Latin American debt crisis

1989: Hyperinflatinon

2002: we all know.

So if Argentina's dates are totally up to the T, why not the other countries?

Even look at the USA dates: 1862 (massive civil unrest and warfare), 1934 (economic collapse)...

None of the years are random. It seems like a well researched piece.
54 ProRG_American (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
36 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) is right. I have been there. It is a beautiful province. Mendoza is highly previlidged. It has a diversified economy spearheaded by Oil, Wine, heavy, medium, and light industry. It is the home to IMPSA, an industrial multinational that builds from the largest hydroelectric turbines in the world to the largest harbor cranes in the world, as well as some of the largest wind turbines built anywhere. It is also the home on Nuclear Mendoza, manufacturer of Nuclear plant components that are sold even to North American customers. The city of Mendoza has 3 major universities. The only nuclear medicine training center in Latin america Mendoza is located here. It is a country apart all onto itself . It seems to have been well shielded from major crisis in the past. It seems to work quite well and most of its citizens would not live any where else.

Stick to the helm and man your guns Mme President. You will surely see the strom through!!
55 Conqueror (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:07 pm Report abuse
@28 Wow. Digging holes in the ground, are they? When you're looking for the bodies, you'll know where to start.
@31 We call it “whistling in the wind”. “It can't happen to me.” Oh, yes it can. Never mind, you keep whistling.
@34 It might be a good idea if you're “mass transit” didn't crash and kill people. Still, every corrupt, criminal, degenerate, mendacious, thieving, argie bigot you kill is one less for us to be concerned with.
@36 Given up on argieland, have you? Very wise!
@40 That's not democracy. So democracy really doesn't exist in argieland.
@45 You need to face the truth. Argieland is dumb faggotland. Bet being allowed to screw whoever you want you will see as one of CFK's greatest “achievements”. Don't bother with your figures. Nothing argieland ever says about money is to be believed. Face it. You are congenital liars.
@49 And who refuses to pay its debts? That would be faggotland......sorry, argieland. So pay the US$20 million for your “frigate”. Pay ALL your creditors. Stop wriggling. You can't get out by any legal means. Slight amount of credit for trying to defend your cesspit, but it's not enough. Your “country” is an immoral, rogue state.
56 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
And the Financial Panic of 1890 is also proof that banks have to be regulated, unlike what others say here. In fact it was this panic that began the talk about central banking, because the bursting of the “Argentine miracle” of the 1870s and 1880s nearly brought London into utter collapse, still caused a massive recession in Latin America, and hit the European economies which then were dependent on remittences and aid from Argentina (Spain, Germany, Italy), and or profits from investment (the UK, France). As the article says, even the USA was affected by the Argentine economy, leading to a massive flight of Gold from the USA, and setting up the stage for their own Financial Panic of 1893.

I think that is why Argentina is unfairly treated in terms of debt defaults. We have had fewer defaults, but beause of our size or (back in the 1890s) status as one of the world's econonic superpowers, when we have defaulted it has caused much more international headlines.

1890 our economic bubble bursting affected the world, 1951 it was big news because Peron was one of the most important figures in world politics. 2002 because Argentina was the largest and most liquid emerging market bond.

But most other countries have defaulted more than us. They are just smaller and their effects were nowhere as headline grabbing.
57 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:11 pm Report abuse
Toby, I don't know who you are trying to convince here, you or the the rest of us?
I don't think anyone here thinks Mendoza is horrible but it is what it is, a back water province 15 hours and 3 plane rides away from what most people would consider civilization.
It is fine if you like that sort of thing. Move onto another topic, trying to compare Mendoza to a 1st world country is just showing what an idiot you really are. You know I am sure Saskatchewans think they live in the best Province in the world too. But most people don't even know where it is, just like Mendoza.
58 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:12 pm Report abuse
I am not questioning the veracity of the wiki info.
I am saying that you cannot claim there is a global campaign of misinformation targeting Argentina, and then quote the most widely used online US encyclopaedia.
59 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:17 pm Report abuse
The best you can do is refer to the USA before it was a superpower? Not to mention that was almost 80 years during the Great

Stay stay on topic.....the topic is kirchner's fall from grace from her people.
Tell me....the unions hate her, the middleclass she demonized and the rich have always hated her (ironic that she is part of the rich). The only ones left are the poor. Is that that many poor in Argentina to support her?

Yankee I would be quite surprised if the reserves were that high. The monthly surpus in trade is a continual trend down with October's surplus un a million. Not good for the reserves.

Yes Elaine....I really find a public threat like that from fernandez criminal. Given time, all politicians say and do stupid things, but implying he can be assasinated is criminal. Especially from public figure who are suppose to be a example. Apparently he is an example of a hitman.
60 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:17 pm Report abuse

I don't need to convince anyone. I just like bugging people here because Mendoza's positive traits don't fit into the narrative people here so desperately try to portray of Argentina.

And for the record, do you think anyone outside of this website has the extreme views on Argentina you people have? No.


I didn't say Wikipedia was in a misinformation campaign. I have state well who are the ones doing so: The Economist, Bloomberg, FT, and Veja magazine/Folha Sao Paulo (with Bloomberg). To a lesser extent WSJ.
61 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:24 pm Report abuse
Fair enough, but I doubt those publications are anti-Argie, more like anti-the policies of the government...but anyway that is off the off topic.

This is way off the article topic too, but seeing as you have touched on construction in Mendoza...

I understand that after the 1861 earthquake (7.2M) that killed about 30% of the population, there was a law made that only buildings of one story could be built. Clearly that wasn’t enforced. Then the 1985 tremor (6.2M) destroyed ca 50,000 houses.

After the 1960 Valdivia earthquake (9.2M most powerful earthquake ever recorded) a law was put in place here to ensure all new buildings were built to anti-seismic regulations. A difficult law to enforce but largely successfully implemented.

We had a 6.2 tremor here in la 4ta region last week – not a single building damaged. I am confident that my house, as with most, could take an 8 without suffering major damage.

After the ’85 tremor were there any laws passed to improve the seismic proofing of buildings?
62 ElaineB (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:25 pm Report abuse
I've been to Mendoza many times. Nice place in a 'thank God I don't have to live here' kind of way. Certainly it is cleaner than many Argentine cities. There are police on every corner. The houses prefer alarms, high fences and large dogs for security. Beggars wait until you have almost finished eating before asking for your food.

It is like many cities with good and bad. I felt safe there but when I took a Chilean friend along on one trip she was very nervous. The people there admit the high crime but blame it all on Chileans coming over the border. It has a certain siege mentality of border towns, I guess.

That said, I liked it and will return. But it is no wonder city as described by TTT. It feels more like a town.

So, why doesn't Mendoza break away from the rest of Argentina if it is dragging it down?
63 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
I hardly call the views toward Argentina extreme after all kirchner has done and continues to do. She insults her own citizens because they disagree with her, she is dismissive to change adjustments and her arrogance is demeaning. No, I don;t think any on here is extreme
64 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse

Elqui Provincia CHILE ? .........hhhmmmm

Did you choose(say) this region in fortuitously 0r in scienter ?
65 yankeeboy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:27 pm Report abuse
There are only a couple posters here that I would consider to have “extreme” views on Argentina. Pretty much everyone here is just pointing out the obvious.
Maybe you need to talk to some Argentinians once in a while they're saying basically the same things as we are here.

Only delusional paranoid narcissist would think Int'l news organizations are on a misinformation campaign about your country. You seem to be as nutty as your ruler.
66 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
Pilot: yes, Ma'am, Tango One to Caracas, at the gate and preparing for boarding.

Co-Pilot: Baggage stowed, confirmed. Medication ready in galley. Sick bags for Timerman.

Pilot: Roger that. Deploy red carpet, commence passenger boarding.

Co-pilot: Captain, we have a problem with the fueling.

Pilot: Dammit!! Who's got another credit card???

Pilot: Ok
67 ProRG_American (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:28 pm Report abuse
62 ElaineB (#) So, why doesn't Mendoza break away from the rest of Argentina if it is dragging it down?

Bacause Mendoza is part of Argentina and there is no reason why it or any part of argentina has to break away.
Wishful thinking by you all ”well wishers: out there.
68 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:32 pm Report abuse
Captain Yankeeconqueror disoriented compass.
69 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:34 pm Report abuse
64 Tipsy: Born, expelled, returned.
70 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:35 pm Report abuse
My god it's like Germany at the end of the war........are the trolls children now with all their gibberish?
71 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:37 pm Report abuse

Your numbers are wrong. It was from what I remember 20,000 destroyed or CONDEMNED. Big difference. I've seen pictures from my uncles who lived in Las Heras, the worst hit area.

Their old house was condemned. It only had a minor “grieta”. It was still liveable. I have pictures of the old house and when I have some time may show them to you.

2nd, the earthquakes that hit Mendoza are different from those in Chile. Mendoza has shallow faults. They go off less frequently because they are not subduction-induced, but when they do the earthquake is right on top of the city at a depth of 10-15km. That is a huge difference in how the shaking affects structures.

Outside of Las Heras, which is generally has the oldest housing, the city was untouched.


Argentines, I've said many times you guys simply refuse to believe anything that goes against your warped views, don't have separatist views. We can be regionalist, but we are still 100% argentines. No matter what. This bothers people here because it is a “positive” trait, and you guys can't give Argentina any positive traits as it ruins your villification plot, but that's the way it is.

Believe me and I've said this too, Menocinos are very tired of Buenos Aires inneficiency and corruption, and over-passion. But as much as we complain, we don't see breaking away as any solution (even if it would be better since we give more money to the federal government in taxes than we get back in funds).


Your views are extreme sorry. The people here make commentary on everything about Argentina, and never anything positive. You can hide behind the excuse “that's the reality”, but when I do the same about the USA, pointing the negative, you people get “irked” at me. Wonder why.
72 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
Does that mean there is no enforcement of anti-seismic building regs.?
73 ElaineB (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
@67 The question was really to TTT. He views Mendoza as a cut above the rest of Argentina and seems to see it in isolation of the rest of the country.

Though, if you travel away from BsAs there are many rumblings about provinces separating from central government. I guess as CFKC refuses to hand over money allocated to them the rumblings will get louder.

Remember, Peron used fascism to unite a very disparate country. It was not so long ago.
74 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:49 pm Report abuse

you expelled ! ...why ?
75 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse

There is of course. I don't know how well it is enforced, but on all new contruction and there is plenty in town, I see the internal steel beems, the heavy concrete, and the extra support columns.

My childhood neighborhood had just been built when the earthquake hit, a working-middle class neighborhood. No house was damaged.

There have been 5 degree quakes in the last couple of years. No damage to anything except some very outlying country homes from the 19th century when a quake hit to the east (which is not as common), right over very rural areas.


Your rumblings, I just answered your question above. I guess you Brits never use rhetorical language (“oh if I were rich...”), its all facts. How boring.

Argentina was well and united way before Peron. Off the reservation with your facts again.
76 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
Bad behaviour and laughing at the teacher.
77 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 06:59 pm Report abuse

Your province cities buildings seem neither solid nor beautiful also in the seismic zone.
78 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:03 pm Report abuse
77 I disagree on both counts.
79 txiki (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:10 pm Report abuse
Since when has the Botox Queen ever listened to anyone in any case?

So what's new? It's a non-story.

Nothing to see here, move along now!
80 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:11 pm Report abuse

One of my family relatives had worked as World Bank expert in Chile
during the years of 1969- 1974.
81 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:15 pm Report abuse

CFK only needs to listen to the constitution, she has the presidency until 2015, whether I support her or not.

Then she leaves and someone else takes her place.
82 TipsyThink (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
Chile ..what a country

This country longitudinally distance as much as like Gibraltar-- Moscow.
83 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:33 pm Report abuse
I agree.
For all the banging of pots and unpopularity, there is nothing to make her go before the election other than impeachment.
84 Ayayay (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@28 Mendoza countryside is so beautiful!!!
85 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
As things continue to deterioratea in Argentina......I can see an impeachment in the works.
86 txiki (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 09:11 pm Report abuse
Especially now it's official that Argentina has the forth highest inflation on the planet, behind only Sudan, South Sudan and Belarus. It is five times higher than in equivalent latam economies such as Brasil, Colombia and Chile......

And still the ice queen plays her fiddle.....
87 Condorito (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 09:26 pm Report abuse
It might be Nero with the fiddle.
88 ChrisR (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 10:18 pm Report abuse
They could always try a bullet, that costs little enough even AG can afford one or two!

89 ProRG_American (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 11:14 pm Report abuse
More positive news on upcoming year.
90 ProRG_American (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 11:24 pm Report abuse
I love the scenes where the redcoats are getting battered especially in 2:01 where the redcoats are surrendering. Fits them well, just as in Buenos Aires in 1806 and 1807.
91 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 21st, 2012 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
#71 Toby they are not extreme. Do you think we all think that the USA, UK and all Europe is a paradise? No.......but light years ahead of argentina. You can point out all the problems, but the are not brought about by the extreme, radical things that your president is doing. Everything from stealing privately owned assets, pensions, extreme protectionism, dismantling the press because they criticize the government, restricting purchasing foreign currency. And on top of it all, your president's smug attitude is dismissive to her own people, insults them and ignores their pleas. She is not bringing about another default and embarrasses the nation of argentina in the international arena by thinking she can bribe her way through the world in lieu of diplomacy.
No Tobi, every here is merely pointing out all that your trolls refuse to see.
92 We got your Fragata (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 03:02 am Report abuse
I was on Avenida de Mayo the day of the strike and there were mobs of thugs breaking windows of stores that dared to open when they labor unions called a national strike. The even entered the historic “Café Tortoni” and broke tables and chairs and destroyed a huge stained glass window from 1890. Argentina is a total disaster, we are all just waiting for the boom to fall any day now. This horrible situation can't keep going forever. Kretina has to disappear with all of her garbage staff - I wish another country would just invade us and overthrow this clown government, maybe divide Argentina into 3 parts? Chile take part, Brasil another and Urugay some more for themselves. Argentina is a failed state!
93 mastershakejb (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 10:37 am Report abuse OONTZ
94 Mendoza Canadian (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 11:37 am Report abuse
The slogan for the next cacerola “your helicopter is waiting”
95 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 11:51 am Report abuse
79 txiki

The story goes that there is this man sitting in his house in the middle of a cloud burst and the river beside his house is about to burst it's banks. The man is a christian and refuses to leave the house saying “God will protect me from this storm, I will not leave”
His neighbour comes knowcking on his door and says to him “The water has wash the levies away, you have to leave your house!!!”

But the man just smiles and says “God will protect me from this storm, I will not leave”

Then a police comes knocks on his door and says “We are evacuating this town, the flood water is getting really high, you must leave now”

But the man just smiles and says “God will protect me from this storm, I will not leave”

Then some firemen come with a boat and they say “We are rescuing people trapped by the flood water, you must come with us now or you will drown”

But the man just smiles and says “God will protect me from this storm, I will not leave”

And so the river does sweep his house away and the man is drowned. When he gets up to heaven he says to God “My Lord, I believed in you, and thought that you would save me, why did you not”
God answers him “I tried to save you my child. I sent your neighbour, a policeman and some firemen...........”

I wonder who God has sent to Asslips Kirchner / Botox Queen / TMBOA / Ol' Turkey Neck / KFC / The harpy and I wonder if she is listening................ Then again...........
96 Acchiappaladri (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 12:16 pm Report abuse
She said: “no one is going to pressure me especially with bullying or thugs”

Please, Mrs. Presidenta,
don't panic, it's just fair, gentle, 100% legal pressure. Just pay up ... it is a discounted bond ... a good deal for you ... you believe you are right, the US will again give you due process and if the district court is wrong you will have your $ 1.3 billion back ... and everybody will be happy.

Mr. Griesa is a gentleman and an expert, equanimous, moderate, prudent, compassionate judge.
As everybody was expecting around the world but you and your buddies&thugs, he has quickly ruled: the holdouts had solid arguments to require 100% right now in their pockets but he gave you more time, a discount and the opportunity to get your money back as soon as his injunction is not upheld.


And God bless your courts :-)
97 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 02:11 pm Report abuse
Happy Thanksgiving back. From noon until and feast.....NFL football that

There is something to be thankful about for everyone
98 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 03:04 pm Report abuse
97 Captain Poppy

Yeah!! I almost forgot there for a minute.

Happy Thanksgiving day!!
99 surfer (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
It's going to be a great weekend!
100 toooldtodieyoung (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 08:29 pm Report abuse
96 Acchiappaladri

Do you know that old saying :- Good advise is seldom ever given?

I would invite you to remember an even older saying that goes along the lines of “Good advise is seldom ever listened too”

..........I don't KFC / Asslips / TMBOA / Ol' Turkey Neck / The Harpy has heard of the second one....
101 stick up your junta (#) Nov 22nd, 2012 - 08:55 pm Report abuse
Vildoza Jose ?
102 St.John (#) Nov 23rd, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
Toby (Nostrolldamus) - although off topic - is right about Mendoza, when he is comparing to the rest of Argentina.

I lived in the town (first year ciudad, tercera sección en la Torre en c. Lavalle, then la quinta sección una cuadra a Emilio Civit) for more than three years, and can guarantee that ciudad de Mendoza (Mendoza proper) and much of Godoy Cruz are somewhat worn down, but safe with well built earthquake safe houses. During the hefty quake in February 2010 nobody was killed, all I saw was a broken water tank; when I had aircondition installed in my 52 year old house they had to drill 3 holes to find a spot in the wall where they didn't hit enforcing iron.

In the Maipú and Lujan municipalities few houses are surrounded by large fences or tag wire and railings in front of the windows are unusual. A large part of the other surrounding municipalities are something else, I wouldn't recommend e.g. Las Heras and parts of Guaymallén. These municipalities are where most of the crimes take place.

The town is beautiful with app 80,000 trees lining all streets and it is clean because streets and plazas are swept and garbage collected every night. The mountains in the vicinity adds to its beauty.

The metro is good, although it was supposed to start running July 2010, but only began test runs in April 2012 shortly before I left. Toby's map (the link) shows how the metro will be in a few years, I am told that so far only the A (blue) line is working, but it is reliable.

Mendoza has daily connections to both Europe, North America, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and Africa, although one has to change plane in either Santiago or Buenos Aires.

For an Argentine town (I have visited at least 25), Mendoza stands out as an example to be followed, although from a northern European viewpoint it has only reached 1960s standard.

I could have lived the rest of my life in Mendoza if it hadn't been part of unpredictable Argentina.
103 Troy Tempest (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 12:35 am Report abuse
@102 St John
Thanks for an honest account of Mendoza. TTT is justifiably proud.
It sounds like a model community with plans to make it even better.

However, I have to ask - is TTT coming totally clean with us?
Out of curiosity, I looked at one of the links he posted, a photo of a new mall and parking lot, in a desert-like area. It was not high resolution, but the buildings looked like they had been photo-shopped in, like an architect's concept of a finished project.
Are these things still going ahead, or has development slowed, due to the economy? Is it somewhat insulated from the financial problems of Argentina, as a whole?

Thx in advance
104 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 04:03 pm Report abuse

Any large-scale retail complex that needs tens of millions of dollars to build is not affected by the “dollar-clamp”, it is very easy for the large players to clear the funds through.

The small developers or individual builders are the ones that see impacts.

I am personally surprise that 90% of the announcements are in fact being built, the only one so far that was announced and nothing has happened is a new shopping circle in Las Heras, they say they are going forward but no one has seen breaking ground on it:

There are many more developments that are even stranger like this

Never in the history of the city has the metropolitan area expanded towards the west to the mountains, but that is the trend now. I think there will be a huge environmental fight because the green lobby is huge in Mendoza (which is why the province stands out for having virtually no large scale mining activity).

I also think that no matter what the dollar policy is, there may be some overbuilding in retail space especially, I think after this wave of mall/shopping construction there must be consolidation, there is just tons of retail space coming online.
105 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
lol you do stand up as well?
106 St.John (#) Nov 24th, 2012 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
Of course TTT coming isn't coming totally clean with us. Like almost anybody else in the world, he loves his home town and province.

But it is true, that Mendoza is a bustling town and the province is prosperous - always has been - compared to most of Argentina, where Mendoza is among the top 2 or 3 towns and provinces.

Mendoza is feeling the international crisis like most places in the world, but has the advantage that about 1/3 of its income is from tourists and 1/3 from wine production, which both provide foreign currency and the remainder split between oil/gas and industry. This is a more diversified economy than most of Argentina and an efficient local government keeps Mendoza positioned close to the top.

Construction is hit by the crisis and development has slowed down but because Argentina is a federation, the economy is 2/3 regional and only 1/3 national.

I have seen many projects started and seemingly grind to a halt - after a delay most of them have been finished, as e.g. the metro, now running and working on the extensions to cover Gran Mendoza. New shopping malls, good and modern housing, etc. are growing, slowly but surely.

Five years ago especially petty crime was rife, but a new governor took some clever initiatives, e.g. enforcing the town police with gendarmes, police patrolling on bikes, 'preventores' with radio keeping an eye on things. In Mendoza you keep your backpack on your back, not locked under your arm like you do in the rest of Argentina.

All in all, Mendoza is comparable to a good provincial town in the first world some 30 years ago. Add a fine climate, beautiful surroundings and very friendly and honest people and you get one of the best (TTT would of course say THE best) towns and provinces in Argentina.
107 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Nov 25th, 2012 - 04:14 am Report abuse

Actually yes. I have decent comedic timing. May I help you:???

You can say all you want about me, but I keep it real by:

a) posting LINKS to newspapers, videos, or wikipedia about my claims (most of you do none of the sort, just spew out “facts” with nothing to back them up... yes not even Wiki)

b) I have always stated the Falklanders should no longer be harrassed by Argentina and should have the right to choose what they want with themselves

c) When I speak of Mendoza, I only do it in comparing to the other provinces of Argentina. Not that I couldn't compare Mendoza to any place in world... we may not be a “paradise” in terms of highew wages and safest streets, but then few places are and we actually have some decent attributes to offer even to “1st world” countries (othewise, why would the city have so many expats?). But my “bragging” is always in comparison to BA, Cordoba, Rosario, etc... as there is a healthy rivalry between us. I'm sure in your countries there are rivalries between the larger towns as well.

So call me troll, and call me wicked, and the smartest guy around... but I'm consistent.
108 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 26th, 2012 - 01:46 pm Report abuse
Wikipedia or utube is not a legitimate source to quote, at least for well thought out and reasoned arguements from intelligent people.
109 Mendoza Canadian (#) Nov 27th, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
Democracy is not just about voting candidates into office — it’s about ensuring politicians are accountable to the electorate. That includes complying with laws.
110 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 27th, 2012 - 01:05 pm Report abuse
ANd voting them out of office when they become ineffective and asslips
111 aussie sunshine (#) Nov 27th, 2012 - 11:45 pm Report abuse
Was this Kristina voted into power or did she take her dead husband´s place??
What they hell is wrong with the Argies that they can´t seem to elect a “ decent” president'?????????
112 British_Kirchnerist (#) Nov 28th, 2012 - 12:26 am Report abuse
Well said ma'am Cristina, quite right to call out this opportunistic scab strike which can only harm workers by trying to unseat the most pro-labour governmnet they've ever had and replace it with the right. And a beautiful picture as ever =) All the comments trash talking her majesty Reina Cristinita are just contemptible rubbish
113 Captain Poppy (#) Nov 28th, 2012 - 01:07 am Report abuse
#111 she stole the office and the country is infected with peronism. Rather than provide the people with the opportunity to climb out of the hole and be self sufficient, peronism seeks to provide small handouts and make the country dependent on the government, thus keeping them in power.
BK keep your masterbatory words about cuntina to yourself your pathetic old RG.
114 British_Kirchnerist (#) Nov 28th, 2012 - 09:04 am Report abuse
#111 Cristina is a lot more decent than your beloved PP, espanol_sunshine =)

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