Thursday, December 13th 2012 - 07:15 UTC

Spanish navy patrol challenges Gibraltar and the Foreign Office

A Spanish warship made a two-hour incursion into Gibraltar waters on Monday evening, in a defiant response to Britain’s warnings to stay away. The incursion came just hours after the British Foreign Secretary, William Hague, told the House of Commons that Britain would take “a grave view” of any violation of British sovereignty in Gibraltar waters.

SPS Tamogago spent two hours in Gibraltar waters

The Spanish Navy patrol boat SPS Tagomago entered British waters on the east side of the Rock at around 5pm and spent the next two hours in the area, though it did not attempt to interfere with shipping.

“The vessel was not in exercise of the right of innocent passage through British Gibraltar territorial waters,” said The Convent in a statement.

The Spanish warship was shadowed by vessels from the Royal Navy’s Gibraltar Squadron and several radio warnings were issued ordering it to leave Gibraltar waters.

Eventually, at around 7pm, the Spanish ship departed.

The incursion, as has now become a matter of routine, will lead to a diplomatic complaint to the Spanish Government in Madrid.

Officials in The Convent said they had informed the Foreign & Commonwealth Office in London and the British embassy in Madrid.

“Her Majesty’s Government will back this up with an immediate formal diplomatic protest in line with the UK Foreign Secretary’s…statement that [Britain] “…would take a grave view of any attempts by Spain to exert any authority or control within British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.”
 

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1 Lord Ton (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 07:54 am Report abuse
Let's put a shot across the bows :-)
2 Teaboy2 (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:03 am Report abuse
That was not the only incursion either, their was 2 as a civil guardia vessel also made an incursion after the one in the article and was more aggressive too
3 Xect (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:07 am Report abuse
Time for action with these morons.

Enough of diplomacy, get some Royal Navy assets there and then tell the Spanish any warship/police boat entering Gib waters is now considered an act of aggression and will result in the Royal Navy taking a defensive stance.

They've pushed their luck far too much now, time to force an embarrassing back-down for the Spanish.
4 Martin Woodhead (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:56 am Report abuse
Those civil guardia boats cant half shift when an 84mm gets fired at them:)
Never joke to an idiot with a loaded anti tank weapon.
5 lsolde (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 09:48 am Report abuse
@1 Lord Ton,
Or a shot into the bows.
6 Teaboy2 (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 09:50 am Report abuse
As much as i'd love to see the one of the Types 45's there, which is pretty capable of taking on any Spanish ship and/or aircraft. I think all we really need is a couple of Lynx HMA-8's or even just one. As there just as capable of taking out any Spanish ship or boat that enters BTGW's.
7 ElaineB (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 10:22 am Report abuse
The Spanish are just willy waving, they have no real power to change the situation.
8 Spainexpat (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 10:28 am Report abuse
@7 ElaineB

And it won't do the government here in Spain any favours, the general public have far more things to worry about and won't fall for this daft distraction. And most of the Spaniards I've met consider Gibraltar British.
9 reality check (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 10:36 am Report abuse
Nato needs to ask these twats why they are seeking conflict with a fellow member?
10 txiki (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 10:39 am Report abuse
I think we should send one of our gunboats to the Island of Perejil off the coast of morocco, and maybe kidnap some of their goats.
11 Asdrúbal el Bello (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 11:12 am Report abuse
The ship of the photo is the destroyer Blas de Lezo (ex-USS Noa). She was decommissionated at 1991. SPS Tagomago is this:
www.losbarcosdeeugenio.com/fotos/es/sve_ms_ae_P22.jpg
12 Brit Bob (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 11:35 am Report abuse
Trouble with the economy why not do what the Argies do, 'use the Great Malvinas/Gibraltar lie'.

Pretty pethetic stuff.

Typical third World attitudes.
13 Pirate Love (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 11:51 am Report abuse
EU needs to get off its a55 and act before their lack of balls costs spanish lives :)

self-determination!
14 Britworker (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:09 pm Report abuse
Spain is the national embodiment of a man with a small penis - always over compensating for something!
15 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:11 pm Report abuse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla

“Morocco had previously called for negotiations on the future of Melilla, Ceuta and a number of nearby Mediterranean islands. However, the majority of the city's population are ethnic Spaniards, who do not wish to join Morocco.[2] Also, the Instituto Opina conducted a poll that found that 88% of mainland Spaniards consider the two cities to be Spanish.[3]”

There are three reasons why Spain assumes that the right of self determination applies to their people but not to the British and the Gilbraltarians. The first is racial. They genuinely think that they are superior. The second is that Spain is in a far worse economic position than the UK and they desperately need a distraction. Third is that the UK has reduced the size of her military too much. A T45, an Astute and a Typhoon cannot be in two places at once so the deterrent effect of the UK armed forces has been reduced even when the capabilities have improved. They think we are weak.

It is a perfect storm and the EU are stirring it by siding with Spain about Gibraltar waters.

The UK has no choice but to have a permanent naval presence in Gibraltar waters from now on and every single incursion needs to be met. The question is though. Where do we find the assets?
16 Idlehands (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:16 pm Report abuse
HMS Sutherland - a Type 23 - has now begun patrolling Gibraltar waters.
17 Furry-Fat-Feck (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:26 pm Report abuse
That is a step in the right direction but a permanent naval presence is required I think.
18 txiki (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:44 pm Report abuse
It's not just Ceuta and Melilla - there are numerous other little remaining islands, islets and outposts in Morocco - not to mention Oliveira in Extremadura which was siezed from Portugal and still claimed by the Portuguese.

elpais.com/elpais/2012/09/17/inenglish
/1347895561_857013.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plazas_de_soberan%C3%ADa

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputed_status_of_Olivenza
19 gustbury (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:46 pm Report abuse
You Brit thieve,haven't waters in Gibraltar!! clarito nene.
20 Conqueror (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 01:53 pm Report abuse
@19 Keep it up, sonny. It won't be long before all you and the Spaniards have left will be wreckage. With holes.
21 gustbury (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:08 pm Report abuse
20@ suck my eggs,usurper pirate heretic!!!
22 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:10 pm Report abuse
*8 “ and most spaniards I have met consider Gib British”
AND PIGS CAN FLY....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
bRITAIN HAS LOST ITS APPEAL IN THE EU COURT..GET OVER IT
PEOPLE!!! tHE EU IS BACKING SPAIN ON THIS ONE..THE RULE OF
LAW IS ON SPAIN´S SIDE..AND THE QUICKER THE UK UNDERSTANDS THIS THE BETTER FOR IT....NOBODY IS GOING TO KICK OUT SPAIN FROM ITS WATERS...END OF STORY....BRITAIN HAS ISSUES WITH SPAIN (gib)..ARGENTINA (MALVINAS /FALKLANDS).NORTHERN iRELAND (LOYALISTS PROBLEM WITH THE FLAG ISSUE)...SCOTLAND (REFERENDUM)...GREECE (THE MARbles)
The ONGOING DIPLOMATIC DISPUTE WITH RUSSIA OVER THE DEATH OF ALEXANDER LITUIENKO...THE DISPUTE WITH MAURITIUS CLAIMING THE ENTIRE CHAGO INDIAN OCEAN TERRITORY ARCHIPELAGO IN THE BRITISH INDIAN OCEAN...
23 gustbury (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:15 pm Report abuse
Is clear here that the problem is Britain around the world!
24 Spainexpat (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:19 pm Report abuse
@22 Argie Sunshine

Hahahahaha - of course you know everything sitting in Argentina pretending to be Australian!
25 gustbury (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:25 pm Report abuse
BUT.............. CANCER HAVES CURE!!
26 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:27 pm Report abuse
*24 and you pretending to HAVE SPANISH FRIENDS!!HAHAHAHAHAHAE
I BET YOU CAN´T EVEN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE...HAHAHAHA
27 War Monkey (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 02:29 pm Report abuse
I see that the mature intellectuals have arrived.
28 reality check (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:01 pm Report abuse
Seriously, WTF are Nato saying about this have the navy of one member state, UK, shadowing a vessel from another member state, Spain. Someone needs a severe bollocking and I know who!
29 txiki (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
I think Spain has enough problems trying to keep their existing territory in one piece with the Catalans making loud noises about independence, rather than worry too much about a small rock. Once the Catalans say Adieu, the Basques and Galicians won't be far behind......
30 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
*29 “ he who does not his own history is bound to repeat it”
Beieve me...The catalans or the Basques do not want a repeat
of what happened in the civil war!! They learnt a valuable lesson back then. And we do not want to awaken The Nazis again! do we? They
are worse than the catalan /Basque mationalists. LET SLEPING DOGS LAY.....
31 Idlehands (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:35 pm Report abuse
I'm amazed the Spanish can afford the fuel to sail to Gibraltar all the way from Cadiz.
32 reality check (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:50 pm Report abuse
Yeah, they will be really screw when that last delivery of RG Biodiesel runs out!
33 txiki (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 03:53 pm Report abuse
@30 - well, Spain now lives in a democracy, quite a bit more stable than during the 2nd Republic - and the lack of tolerance is exactly what led to the civil war. As they say, and something I have learned froml living in Spain for 20 years (as well as the full history of why Gib is British), Spain is a country of extremists - my friends range from those who are completely left wing and republican to those - such as my in laws who think that things were better during the dictatorship.

The difference is - as with the Falklands question - is that we live in different times, and people's wishes for self determination should be respected. The problem is that those on the right in Spain will never let the Catalans get their way.

I have lived in both Donosti, and Sitges - and know very well that a lot of people in those places are only Spanish because they are not allowed to express their self determination. Spain should learn from the UK - and grant those who want one a referendum on independence - just like will happen in Scotland in a couple of years.

Saludos
A.
34 GFace (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
I agree with “RC”. This is not how fellow NATO allies nor EU members should behave towards one another. In an ideal neighborhood scenario the status quo for Gibraltar neither breaks Spain's legs nor picks their pockets nor violates the individual rights of its citizens (the right to “face” and “dignity” by having/claiming/taking something that someone else has is not a right). Indeed, having the UK administer it in a peaceful manner saves Spain from having to deal with a bunch of dissatisfied customers (who clearly, like the Falklands, make their views on how they should be administered clear over and over).
35 Room101 (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
Spain doesn't show up when there's a British warship in the area. Anyway, it's a tactic to give it time to mount enough diplomatic protests to Spain to warrant action of another kind if needed. It probably won't.
36 Idlehands (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 04:33 pm Report abuse
It's now being described as an act of war in the Houses of Parliament:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mps-condemn-spanish-act-of-war-over-gibraltar-8413060.html
37 Pirate Love (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 05:12 pm Report abuse
Uk is being tested on different fronts, and International bodies continue to look the other way , maybe its time the aggressors recieved a mild response....
38 Think (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 05:29 pm Report abuse
Some classical British Brainwashing War Propaganda for the enjoyment of the British Walts & Turnips…..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuO4BfnlDY8
39 Rock scorpion (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
the spanish government needs to look tough, i feel bad for the spanish and i am from gibraltar, the country is going downhill sorry reaching the bottom quickly and needs some distraction, to say the truth even the ministers that used to be in the spanish govenment argue that spains stance on the gibraltar waters is very weak in international law thats why they dont take the waters issue to court.
40 Santa Fe (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 05:56 pm Report abuse
38... Thats right brainwashing, as we all know we didn't sink the Bismark via a torpedo to the rudder leaving it disabled, then it was finished off by the following pack of Royal Navy ships. his film is pure lies and nonsense as it depicts what actually happened DOH!!!!!
another good one is Longest day, it's a cruel depiction and propaganda of what didn't happen on DDay, it lies by saying that apparently British Canadian and American troops invaded France to rid it of nazi tyranny, iam glad you have uncovered these old films pure propaganda man!!!! Jajajajajaj
41 stick up your junta (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 06:31 pm Report abuse
@38

You call that propaganda Think?

ARA and FAA sinking HMS Invincible
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNJMkDuhzww
42 andy65 (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 06:53 pm Report abuse
@Think, you greace ball you still getting around?? about time your lover the botox queen put you in a C130 over the South Atlantic on a one way trip

THE DISSAPEARD
43 reality check (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
@41
Always loved that link, sums them up to a tee.

Any other country in the world would use camera footage, they come up with cartoons, computor generated images and calls it proof!!!!!!

Bit like their claim to the islands really.
44 Conqueror (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:26 pm Report abuse
@21 Please look up and open your mouth in awe. I'm going to have a dump! Remember to be a good girl and swallow.
@22 On the left side of mummy's keyboard is a “key” with “Caps Lock” printed on it. Press it. Just the once! It may stop you looking like a complete prick. If you were to keep up, you would have noticed that Britain has, effectively, said that it doesn't give a toss. It doesn't recognise any Spanish “site” in BGTW. Spain hasn't dared to face up to Britain for hundreds of years. Like argieland, it's all bluster. Loads of mouth. No trousers. Argies are cowardly wankers. Northern Ireland will submit to the rule of law or the catholic bum-bandits will pay the price. Scotland can piss off as soon as it likes. As can Greece. Or should that be Grease?
@25 Too true. Are you ready for your SURGERY?
@30 CATALAN INDEPENDENCE! BASQUE INDEPENDENCE! GALICIAN INDEPENDENCE! Argie destruction! Argentines, please leave. If you detect any argie trying to sneak past, kill it. Automatic amnesty.
@36 Action by Spaniards is an act of war. ONE warning. Stay OUT. There will be NO MORE warnings. Shall we be “friendly” and arrest anything Spanish in BGTW? Or shall we just sink it? Votes?
@38 IGNORED. AS REQUESTED BY THE FAGGOT HIMSELF!
45 briton (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 08:36 pm Report abuse
. HMS Sutherland was conducting “routine maritime security patrols” in British Gibraltar territorial waters.
www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=27177
Royal Navy warship HMS Diamond coming to Gibraltar
www.gbc.gi/news/954/royal-navy-warship-hms-diamond-coming-to-gibraltar

JUAN CARLOS TRIALS
The Spanish Navy’s newest carrier, the SPS Juan Carlos, has conducted trials
www.warshipsifr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:news-digest-from-the-december-2012-edition&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18

SPAIN FOLLOWS HAGUE STATEMENT WITH NAVAL WATERS INCURSION
www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=27157
b.o.t. map
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/British_Overseas.png
they will never stop until we stop them,
as long as they think we are weak,

.
46 ProRG_American (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
38 Think (#) Some classical British Brainwashing War Propaganda for the enjoyment of the British Walts & Turnips…..

The way of the Hood. The only way to go.
47 Conor J (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 11:43 pm Report abuse
@46
You seem to find the sinking of the Hood funny don't you?
48 andy65 (#) Dec 13th, 2012 - 11:50 pm Report abuse
THATCHERS FINEST WORDS SINK THE BELGRANO AND SHE DID
49 cheekychulo (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:44 am Report abuse
Just like most of the Spanish civil service these sailors will soon be waiting 2 or 3 months for their wages
50 Shed-time (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 09:11 am Report abuse
by departed, do they mean it sank? These spaniards cannot really afford spares for their boats, like transom plugs.
51 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:04 pm Report abuse
*50 oh really!! Spain has just built three amphibious ships for the Australian navy and has contacts for other navies.... They sure must have cash for fuel?? ¿ no? you silly pumpkin!! hahahahah

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IKtNzvIlc
52 reality check (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:06 pm Report abuse
You mean the Royal Australian Navy, don't you?
53 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:11 pm Report abuse
*52 The Royal Australian Navy!! my apologies!!
54 reality check (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:36 pm Report abuse
Wonder if those RAN matelots fancy a run ashore in Gib, just steam up and down a few times, bevies on the Gigraltarians, I am sure they would give them a great welcome.
55 aussie sunshine (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 02:43 pm Report abuse
*54 ): but I don´t think the Admirals will allow it!!
56 Santa Fe (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 05:14 pm Report abuse
51... fake Aussie ....There was me thinking that the Spanish Navy had permanently mothballed Their only aircraft carrier due to lack of dollar!!! this must be a trick. The Australian ships proudly displayed the BAE banner on their trip to Australia to be fitted out by BAE.
57 ProRG_American (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 05:50 pm Report abuse
TRAITOR!
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/12/royal-navy-officer-jailed-russia
58 Santa Fe (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
57... You posting this on every page!!! Multiple posting of links lazy my fake yanks troll! As I said on another page our great MI6 fished this lad out and set him up by pretending to be Russian spies, he's been locked up for a long time, and yes he is a traitor and should be turfed out the country.
59 briton (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 06:57 pm Report abuse
57
aparently spends 20 hours a day trolling the net, looking for anti brit info.

the world spends seconds looking argie bad things .
60 lsolde (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 09:29 pm Report abuse
@57 ProRG,
For the first time l agree with you.
The man is a traitor & should be shot without delay.
@38 Think,
As Santa Fe correctly pointed out,
The Bismark's rudder was damaged by a torpedo fired from a Swordfish bi-plane.
lt could only steam in large circles.
Then the fleet moved in for the coup de grace. Fini.
l would imagine that the men aboard the Polish destroyer got some satisfaction by firing at the Bismark.
Revenge is sweet.
61 ProRG_American (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 09:35 pm Report abuse
Only an attempt on my part to make some of you squirm. Actually, the man is quite an amateur at what he does and a heroe to some I am sure.
62 THEMan (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 10:35 pm Report abuse
@44 You're just a typical anti-Scottish piece of worthless shit. Once we leave, you're fucked. The number £1.5 trillion in reserves and the number '90+' years means we still have oil, and more reserves are being found. Without oil, England will be in the shitter with debt.
63 Santa Fe (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 10:40 pm Report abuse
62... Can't wait , the rest of the Uk will be better off without the huge social welfare bill for Scotland, UK puts in more money to Scotland than any oil revenue. so good luck to you all, although all polls suggest that a majority want to stay in the UK, back to the story lets not wander off topic.
64 THEMan (#) Dec 14th, 2012 - 11:01 pm Report abuse
@63... maybe you should learn basic things like tax. Yes 'officialy' we have around £46 billion in taxes but spend £53 billion on public services. However, some economic and financial experts have revealed that this figure should be higher by around £7 billion because Scottish people who work for companies that are based in England, pay certain taxes that are accredited to the companies' HQ there instead of Scotland. I can't put it into perfect words, but what I'm saying is that the figure should be fairly higher than that.
And remember have a set budget of over £45 billion, not payed for by the English taxpayer at all.
Also, I should point out that the polls are incredibly inaccurate as I found out that they ask only the same group of people who will obviously stick to the same opinion, therefore making them biased.
I think we need to get a body from outwith the UK,US or EU to run a poll in Scotland with around 50,000 people just to make it more reliable.
And the main reason why we'll probably vote 'Yes' is because we hate being run by a government that we clearly did not vote for (1 Conservative MP in the entire country. 1!!!!). Plus we are under represented in Westminster and don't have any particular impact on anything to do with foreign policy or bills passed.
Finally wouldn't you like to see all 4 countries have separate governments who focused on their own people?
We had our second choice of 'devo max' taken away from us, so that gives us more incentive to gain independence.
65 Santa Fe (#) Dec 15th, 2012 - 02:07 pm Report abuse
64... Should I learn tax, you just agreed with the official figures that I quoted!!! Doh
Really hope the polls are wrong and Scotland leaves but it looks like they are not stupid enough to leave the cash cow that is the rest of the UK and more importantly England and the city of London. Think every area in Scotland can elect their own MP just like the rest of us, and don't forget the Scottish parliament that votes in free prescriptions for all while the rest of the uk has to pay, plus tuition fees, good luck with finding the cash for all that.
looks like Scotland will see sense and as the polls suggest a huge majority will vote to stay in the uk, we will welcome them as we are stronger together, and I like the Scottish people a lot.

let's get back to the story in question and stop trolling as I doubt your Scottish connection amounts to much more than eating shortbread once. join pretend british and fake Aussie, plus RG fake US citizen, and try to keep to the news article as you may be able to fathom we are talking about Gibraltar not Scotland.
66 Teaboy2 (#) Dec 15th, 2012 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
@65 - You forgot to mention the costs of defense - which last time i checked was paid for by UK parliament - If Scotland went independent they would have to find billions to maintain and pay for their own defense.
67 Santa Fe (#) Dec 15th, 2012 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
to doesn't stack up well, the facts are the scots wouldn't enjoy all the benefits and extra perks they enjoy at our expense. I want them to stay with us as they are great people and contrary to the fake scots troll the vast majority want to stay in the uk.
68 lsolde (#) Dec 15th, 2012 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
We don't need disunity now. We must stick together in the face of Argentine would be empire-building.
Although l do think that England alone could still see the Argentines off.
But if Scotland wants independence, that is entirely their business.
l do think that after a few years they might regret it, financially.
69 THEMan (#) Dec 16th, 2012 - 02:10 am Report abuse
@66 + 67 Again look at the facts. This is why I don't waste my time with people who don't know these simple things. Scotland pays more than it's fair share towards the Armed Forces. Teaboy2 you're obviously an idiot if you think the Parliament pays for it lol.
SantaFe stop selecting extracts from my posts. I didn't agree with the figures hence the ' symbol being used over official to note the sarcasm.
And you've shown your idiocy to because that has no relevance to my point that we are under-represented. Learn basic politics too.
And you keep on going on about the polls run by English media outlets which I have told you , are biased and wholly inaccurate. Again, learn the fact that these newspapers are pro-unionist and will do whatever they can to spread propaganda or a well-known term, 'scaremongering'. For example they have falsely claimed that the EU has said that Scotland will have to re-apply to join it, when in fact it is only the views of 2 men (The President and another who I can't remember).
(I like using And to start sentences now)
And you still can't comprehend that you don't subsidize us whatsoever, as we have a set budget and all is paid from that. Our budget is covered from our taxes if you didn't know.
Finally @SantaFe your ludicrous claim that I am not Scottish clearly emboldens the fact that you are intellectually deprived or just deliberately being a twat. I am Scottish, born in Edinburgh and live in the Falkirk District for your information. I could easily say that you're a fake English/UK troll like you did with me btw.
70 Santa Fe (#) Dec 16th, 2012 - 07:34 am Report abuse
69... You don't waste your time but then write a long winded whining reply , busy chap yeah????

apologies if not a troll, you displayed all the traits

let's get back to the story then, plenty of forums to discuss this topic not a South American news agency site talking about Gibraltar and a Naval Incursion by the Spanish.
71 Teaboy2 (#) Dec 16th, 2012 - 01:45 pm Report abuse
@69 - Yeah thats right am an idiot because i know the truth. Let me point something out to you, where do all your benefits come from, because i can tell you now, you can not even afford your own benefits program. The Vast majority of your public services in Scotland are paid for by tax payers in England and wales, wants scotlands contribution to the armed forces, apart from bases and personnel which are paid for by the British government (which is based in Westminster) not the Scottish government. Whats Scotlands financial contribution to the armed forces. Well its a big fat zero, because scottish tax contributions go back to scotland to pay for public services. In 2011 scotlands expense and income deficit was £18million and even with oil revenues which are expected to decline the deficit would have still been minus £10million. So face the facts, and independent Scotland would need to raise its taxes to cover the deficit, as no country can continue to run a successful economy when they are in deficit. It would be like, working for a loss, i.e. not bringing home any bacon!

Also you have the billions of pounds the Westminster paid to the scottish banks to stop them going bankrupt due to the economic disaster which is hundred of billions by the way! You would therefore have that debt to pay back, along with debts for money borrowed and used to pay for Scottish projects etc.

If you think scotland can go it alone, then the sensible thing for you to do in scotland is to spend 2-5 years paying your own way, whilst still part of the UK, with no income provided by westminster and all scottish taxes and income being kept by the scottish government. You will soon find the deficit increase by millions if not billions and your debts increase along with your taxes! But hey at least you will have the rest of the UK to bail you out should your experiment fail, which it will!
72 THEMan (#) Dec 16th, 2012 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
@71 You're still showing your idiocy, aren't you. Typical Englishman who can't face the fact that we pay our own way, contribute more per head to the economy than anywhere else outside London.
I know we need to raise taxes, but let me just say that we are in a better situation than England as we aren't privatizing our NHS like you guys.
Your comments on the banking bailout are funny, as it just shows your lack of understanding at the fact that you didn't bail us out, but a company that was bailed out worldwide for it's failures, Wasn't our fault that they ran into debt, it was theirs and Westminster's.
And hey guess what?????? RBS paid back all £163 billion of debt last year boy , so your argument is irrelevant.
Go learn the facts and change your arrogant, retarded attitude before trying to make a point on something you have no clue about.
73 lsolde (#) Dec 16th, 2012 - 08:57 pm Report abuse
Gentlemen, please stop it.
The malvinistas will be lapping this up.
But if we're going to break up then l'm all for an independent Yorkshire. lol!
Of course the Yorkshire Empire will encompass ALL land between the Humber & the Scottish border! And l don't rule out further expansions in the future!
74 Santa Fe (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 01:22 pm Report abuse
72.. But you dont pay your own way i refer you back to your quoted figures of money in money out , simple maths, we put in more money to scotland than it makes in revenue, fact!! Now back to Gibraltar!!
75 THEMan (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 04:02 pm Report abuse
@74... I'll stop when you halt from being selective in what I said. I remember saying that the figures don't represent our true contributions. Learn what I'm talking about, and actually realize that every attempt you make to claim that Scotland are nothing but subsidy junkies (effectively calling us worthless), just makes the prospect of a yes vote all the more likely. Keep it up, and we'll be gone, cos we're getting sick and tired of being run by English-led governments, and putting up with the old “I'm English and I'm better than you” attitude.
76 briton (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 08:14 pm Report abuse
why dont you all just wait untill 2014,
untill then
dont worry abt it,

your confusing the argies..lol.
77 THEMan (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
well if we're confusing the argies, we should keep it up lol
78 Santa Fe (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 07:16 pm Report abuse
Yawn still talking about another subject on this Gibraltar news article.

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