Monday, December 17th 2012 - 21:15 UTC

Brazil and Argentina bottom of the list in terms of competitiveness

Brazil ranks near the bottom among fourteen emerging powers in terms of competitiveness, due to high capital and labor costs as well as inadequate infrastructure, according to a study commissioned by the National Confederation of Industry (CNI) and published by the Folha de Sao Paulo daily.

Renato da Fonseca, CNI executive-manager says report explains why Brazilian industry is losing markets abroad

According to the report Brazil is in 13th place ahead only of Argentina among fourteen countries with similar socio-economic characteristics. Canada ranked first, followed by South Korea, Australia, China, Spain, India, Chile, South Africa, Poland, Russia, Colombia and Mexico.

The study indicated that there was no improvement in Brazil's standing since a similar survey done in 2010.

The world's sixth largest economy, which is currently showing anemic growth, fared worst in the area of labor and capital costs, infrastructure and transport, and macro-economic environment.

The foreign trade ministry said last week that the country posted a 186 million dollars trade deficit in November, down from a surplus of 571 million during the same month of 2011.
Between January and November, Brazil recorded a surplus of 17.18 billion, down 33.9% compared with the same period 12 months ago.

In November, exports totaled 20.47 billion, down 6% compared with a year earlier but up 3.5% compared with October, the ministry said.

Folha quoted Renato da Fonseca, CNI executive-manager, as saying that this explains why Brazilian industry is losing markets abroad.

”The (global crisis) affected everybody, but impacted Brazilian industry with great intensity,“ he said. ”At a time of crisis, competition becomes more acute and it is precisely the moment when the country needs to show strength so as not to lose markets.”

The Brazilian government has said it hopes its recent measures to boost industry and consumption will bear fruit in the second half of this year, but companies have stressed the urgent need for structural reforms.

Confirming the report eeconomists’ lowered their growth forecasts for Brazil for this year and next for the fifth consecutive week, due to poor economic performance this year, showed a weekly survey by the central bank Monday.

GDP is likely to grow 1% in 2012, rather than 1.03% forecast in last week's survey. Growth in 2013 is likely to be 3.4% rather than 3.5%. The survey tracks the forecasts of 100 analysts and economists and reports the averages.

Respondents saw inflation as likely ending the year at 5.60% rather than 5.58%, and at 5.42% next year rather than 5.40%.

The average forecasts for the benchmark Selic rate this year and next remained at 7.25%. That for the debt-to-GDP ratio likewise stayed put, at 35.1%.

The forecast for this year's trade surplus was 19.50 billion from 20 billion, and that for the current-account deficit was 54 billion. Respondents saw the U.S. dollar ending the year at 2.08 Reais.
 

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1 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 09:27 pm Report abuse
Raise tariffs to 75% as Argentina has suggested, and implement Argentina's import/export sensible measures on specific products. Do not sign “free” subjugation agreements, and curtail exchange with foreigners.
2 MrFlagpole (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 10:30 pm Report abuse
It's funny that this article is about Brazil when Argentina is below it. I guess that's just a given.
3 HansNiesund (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 10:49 pm Report abuse
@1

Argentine wackynomics should be a discipline in its own right.

I, for one, am especially intrigued by the Internet policy which requires for every byte imported into Argentina, another one has to be exported. This explains why, every time somebody goes porn surfing in Rio Gallegos, we get about 300 posts from Tobias, Pirat-Hunter, Think, and the rest of the faculty.
4 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
Toby, nobody is going to listen to Argentina for Economic advice.
Nobody.

Will you be marching/protesting on Wednesday?
Seems like they're getting pretty frequent now
Any word on when the massive devaluation will happen? I see the gray market U$ is getting close to 7 again.
5 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:07 pm Report abuse
Yankeeboy
With all respect, “your” economics is nothing to strive for, a society based on consumtion is auto-destructive. Not saying Argentina is doing the right thing, but the project we are living in today has failed, in your case leading to a very very sick society. Maybe you should clean your own house first?
6 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:12 pm Report abuse
Stevie, with all respect, you are a complete and utter fool.
There is not one country our size that has a better standard of living nor long term economy not one not in the history of the world.
Try again loser.
7 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:17 pm Report abuse
You always rely on insults as your main argument?
History has never seen school shootings en masse either, doesn't mean you are on to something good, does it?
8 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:26 pm Report abuse
What does that have to do with economics, the basis of this article and my original post?

Stay on subject retard
9 Shed-time (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:31 pm Report abuse
I just read the article and there is nothing new here. Simple observation suggests that south america is full of basket-case economies and this just adds objective criteria with which to show it to be the case.
10 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:34 pm Report abuse
Yankee
Maybe you should attend to your own malfunctioning society instead of telling others what to do in order to avoid your homemade predictions. Why do you keep insulting?
11 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:39 pm Report abuse
Nah, Ill keep doing what I like thanks for the advice though...

My homemade predictions about Argentina have a pretty good track record take a look at my past posts.

My predictions for Argentina are:

Massive Devaluation/Hyperinflation/Generational Depression.

What are yours?
12 Shed-time (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:40 pm Report abuse
@10 as an argentine you're probably having some kind of delusional episode that is making you engage in cultish activities associated with Nestoranity. You should probably resolve this behaviour by a) getting a hobby; or b) going on a date with a real lady.

You should also take down your altar to maximo, which you fashioned out of spittle and nail clippings.
13 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:45 pm Report abuse
@10
“My homemade predictions about Argentina have a pretty good track record take a look at my past posts.” (Yankeebroke @11)

“Toby, It is very hard to predict WHEN an event will occur but it is easy to predict THAT it will occur.” ... (Yankeebroke @37) en.mercopress.com/2012/12/17/argentine-frigate-expected-back-in-buenos-aires-early-january

lol lol lol
14 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:45 pm Report abuse
Reading about your armageddon-style predictions of Argentinas future all while your own society is rotting under the pressure of the economics you'd like Argentina to be part of (I assume), is quite hilarious, I got to admit. Myself, I have no interest in predicting results, if I wanted to do that, I'd play the lottery.
15 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:49 pm Report abuse
@14

It is bruited about that in the past he posted under the name/cognomen “Fred”, and has been promulgating his mantic yet hoplessly vain statements for at LEAST three years, possibly four or more.
16 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:52 pm Report abuse
Shed-time
You too refuse to address people without a dosis of personal abuse? What's wrong with you folks?
17 yankeeboy (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:55 pm Report abuse
It is much easier to predict the demise of Argentina than pick 5 numbers of the lottery.
Much easier.
Will both of you be participating in Wednesday's protest?
It sounds like fun
very stable indeed

Do you think Quebracho will be there?
I would love to see EVERYONE having fun.
18 Stevie (#) Dec 17th, 2012 - 11:59 pm Report abuse
Will you be protesting against the direction your society is heading? Lets talk freely, we are both out of subject here. Will you do your part to avoid another school shooting? Do you care? Do you even care? Or are you busy being preoccupoed by Argentinas destiny?
19 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:01 am Report abuse
Why is toby talking to himself on a thread again? Is he going to discuss the merits of mendoza and kevlar with Stevie (himself)?

Gosh. They'll let some extra Quebracho murderers out of jail just for the protests, no doubt.
20 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:07 am Report abuse
What do you suggest? Should I go into the streets and bang an old pot or pan? Maybe burn some tires in a road?
How's that working for you? Did it decrease your inflation? Decrease the kidnappings or commando assaults?

Do you think Wednesday's protest will be as large as the last one?

I was a little disappointed they didn't let more people out of jail to participate. Oh wait that was wasn't organized by Maxi was it?
21 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:07 am Report abuse
Irrepressible paranoia billowing from these Antis is a concomitant of my unintended abuse from lapidary rebuttal of their soi-disant 'facts'.
22 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:12 am Report abuse
Yankee
Well, for a starter you could tell your compatriots your predictions of where your society is heading should you continue the path you are walking, even a blind man can see where that is.
Secondly, should you put half the energy on diagnosing your own house instead of the neighbours, as you do today, maybe you'd end up with people actually taking you serious.
23 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:20 am Report abuse
No this is a board about ARGENTINA I typically stick to only that subject.

You should try RT. Press.tv or Al Jazeera if you want to chat with like minded people.

So again, do you think La Campora will be sent out to cause a ruckus on Wednesday?
24 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:22 am Report abuse
@01 Nozzy
“Raise tariffs to 75% as Argentina has suggested, and implement Argentina's import/export sensible measures on specific products. Do not sign “free” subjugation agreements, and curtail exchange with foreigners.”

Nozzy, fine, go ahead.
I don't think anyone from outside of Argentina has a problem with that.
Do what you need to control your currency and your markets.

At the same time, you understand that if it is your right to decide to buy or not, other countries are at liberty to stop buying lemons, corn, or bio-diesel from you, as well.

@stevie
You “assume” that the rest of the world wants you to participate in a world economy. I am sure the rest of the world doesn't give a d@mn. You have successfully made it not worth the effort, anymore. They're moving on.

Without you.

Oh, and Stevie, not only is the school massacre off-topic ( you introduced it) in a thread about the economies of South American countries, Brazil and Argentina, but it is gratuitously, opportunistic, and repugnant of you to use it to make an unrelated comment.
25 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:25 am Report abuse
@23

WRONG. This is not a board about Argentina.

Classic Freudian slip.
26 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:26 am Report abuse
#5

Back on subjection. What is your definition of consumption in which you describe as “auto destructive”? Typically production is generated to meet to needs of demand. Are you suggesting that production should be generated first and seek out the demand......the so called..“build it and they will come” theory? AKA supply side economics?
Unless you have any sympathy for the murdered children, it's pointless to bring it up.
#22 unless you know what Americans do to change their country, it's pointless to take a position on an unknown point. Don;'t make a judgement based you websites and your news, go to the country and find out first hand. I for one know all Argentine's are not idiot's and morons from firsthand experience being there. Firsthand experience always trumps vicarious experience......no?
27 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:29 am Report abuse
Let's see I go to MERCOPRESS then REGIONS then ARGENTINA and viola I am here.
So yeah it's about Argentina
retard
28 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:31 am Report abuse
This is not a board, this is a section within a board or website.

And it's VOILA, not viola...

ROTFL .....
29 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:33 am Report abuse
Oh sorry report me to the internet police as soon as they contact me I will pay the fine.
You never answered, are you protesting on Wednesday or not?
30 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:38 am Report abuse
Actually I recant my statement, it is VIOLA.

When you deplane at the beginning of one of your famed weekend getaways to Paris/London/Barcelona, that is the first thing you should hawk with a stentorian voice: VIOLA! VIOLA! VIOLA! Je suis arrivé(e) !!
31 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:42 am Report abuse
Yankeeboy and Troy
This thread is about various nations competitiveness in economics, not about Argentina or Brazil in particular. You might choose to talk about Argentina, that doesn't change anything.

Now yankeeboy wants to talk about a protest planned in Argentina, something that has little to do with the competitiveness of any nation whatsoever.
So yankeeboy, what IS your solution to the school shootings, or is that just part of some evolution we all have to live with?

Poppy
Auto-destructive because consumption has no limit. Production without regard for the supply of raw material is not bearable. Children indoctrinated with happiness being equal to the clothes they wear and the gadgets they own is not sane. Adults spending their lives accomplishing someone elses dreams is not fair. Auto-destructive because of what it leads to, a whole generation of kids with ADHD, school shootings, traditions transformed into consumption, wars over resources, laws that applies only to the poor, you name it.
32 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 01:19 am Report abuse
You appear to have it all figured out Stevie.
33 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:31 am Report abuse
31. Section 2...hahahahaha you sir are a retard.
34 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:40 am Report abuse
VIOLA!
35 Anglotino (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:44 am Report abuse
So of 14 countries surveyed, Brazil came in at 13 and Argentina at 14. They both came last. And this isn’t some western or IMF plot, but an actual survey carried out by Brazil.

Up against Canada, South Korea and Australia (highest 3) it really is no surprise. Also with the widen gap between Chile and the rest of South America, it is again not a surprise they came in at 7. Even Colombia came in at 11 as she continues on her path to being the second largest economy in South America.

Autarky clearly doesn't work, so you have to wonder why Argentina continues down such a path. It is hard to see how an open economy has harmed Canada, South Korea and Australia's sovereignty. Stable currencies and low inflation actually increase economic security.

As for Brazil; the commodity boom and consumption boom may have created the world's sixth largest economy, but it hasn't increased its productivity or competitiveness. Brazil has had high growth in the past but never been able to sustain it before inflation kicks in due to the lack of reform. Seems the growing opinion that Mexico will once again be the largest Latin American economy isn’t wrong so far.
36 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:29 am Report abuse
@35

What you and your congenial cohorts in ideology appear to perversely ignore,(perhaps deliberately) in your editorials time and again, is that an open economy would utterly destroy Argentina. Destroy in the literal sense, through the outbreak of an internecine conflict.

Those economies you mention have been “open” for 50-60 years. Their productive, agricultural, industrial, and services complex are acclimated at least to some extent to operating in said condition.

But the preponderant among all the economic variables is the labor market. Employment takes generations to adapt and respond to the metamorphosis from closed to open economic system, because it is a socially organic and not a strictly statistical variable. It is made of people, not widgets. That is why all nations and societies that have decided to embark upon that model of liberalism do so on a gradient and not in one fell swoop. To open an economy abruptly and indiscriminately leads irremediably to certain disaster, and economic Gehenna. The best example to adduce? Russia 1991-1992.

Argentina should and cannot liberalize its economy under any circumstances, particularly given the current global economic inclemency in which every solitary nation holds no intentions of helping us, but rather would take advantage of the circumstances to flood us with tawdry and likely unsafe products and ersatzes. That WILL eventuate in mass unemployment, household destitution, and ultimately into succumbing to a internal struggle to be supervened by foreign intervention, and ensuing domination, of all resources... and perhaps in closing of the citizenry itself.

And those who advocate this “formula” to be implemented in Argentina likely are aware of this denouement. In fact, they may be “banking” and “Sing”ing on it... all the way to the “vults”.

We cannot allow ourselves to be gulled in this fashion.
37 Anglotino (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 04:39 am Report abuse
@36 Nos

Ok, as I am a native English speaker, it is a little difficult to understand your English. I am guessing the point you wished to make is that Argentina needs time to adjust. There is a lot to be said for brevity.

Anyway, you are wrong. No one is saying there should be a 'big bang'. But plenty of countries have reformed and opened up. The best comparison to Argentina would be Australia. At one stage in their development, both countries were equally rich and developed. Australia was once a closed and protected market and had in place many of the economic barriers that Argentina now has. It has not been open for “50-60 years” but more like 30.

Australia didn't even take 30 years to adapt let alone “generations” and last time I checked it didn't “eventuate in mass unemployment, household destitution, and ultimately into succumbing to a internal struggle to be supervened by foreign intervention, and ensuing domination, of all resources... and perhaps in closing of the citizenry itself”.

Actually they just became richer, reduced poverty, increased education and health resources, balanced their budget and paid off their debt. So your scary stories are nothing but stories. 20 years of constant growth without any recession.

But they have diverged now. Australia has left Argentina in the dust. Actually they are not even in the same league anymore. Australia is one of the richest countries in the world and Argentina is now a developing country. Chile is a great comparison. None of what you imagine would befall Argentina has happened either. But again they are too far in front now.

A better future comparison would probably be Colombia. Argentina is closing in and protecting whereas Colombia is opening and competing. Both have similar cultures and demographics.

While Colombia is less developed, it is fast catching up. The next couple of years will show who took the correct path. For some unknow reason you think that Argentina is unique. She is not. Australia h
38 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 04:57 am Report abuse
@31 Stevie
“This thread is about various nations competitiveness in economics, not about Argentina or Brazil in particular. You might choose to talk about Argentina, that doesn't change anything.”

Stevie, how can you say that? The title of the article mentions the relative positions of both Brazil and Argentina. The focus of the article is very much Brazil,mentioning Argentina as being bottom of a pack of 14 nations.

Furthermore, Nostrolldamus kicks off the comments in post 01 by stating his opinion that Argentina can solve the problem by imposing stiff tariffs against other states and not suggesting they are attempting to subjugate Argentina, and sabotage its economy through trade agreements.

The discussion revolved around Argentinian trade practices until you got defensive:
@07Stevie
“You always rely on insults as your main argument?
History has never seen school shootings en masse either, doesn't mean you are on to something good, does it?”

As I said, a gratuitous comment on your part. And now you continue the off topic argument. You have successfully diverted the subject away from the poor ECONOMIC performance of Argentina and Brazil, as reported in the article.

You have shown your true colours.
39 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 05:13 am Report abuse
@37

Australia has the distinctive geographical boon of being a nation the size of Brazil comprised 20 million denizens, sorrounded by water and yet within the orbit of an emerging consumer market of over 2 billion citizens (Asia).

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the two countries.

Chile, no disrespect to Chileans, was a country the never had produced any significant economic sector. In the 1970s it had virtually no industry, no agriculture, no viticulture. Thus, there were no special interests or industries to protect, unlike Argentina which always has had a massive agricultural and livestock sector, and some level of heavy industry. Thus the Chileans could open their economy because quite frankly, they had nothing to lose and nothing to protect.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the two countries.

I am not interested in Argentian satisfying some phony, contrived, and ideologically tendentious Economist, UN, or Forbes lists. I don't believe in such rankings anyhow.
40 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 08:00 am Report abuse
Troy
Before my post, yankeeboy was already talking about something else than the topic (protests in Argentina).
And why should I talk about what you want, this is a thread where countries competitiveness are compared, I would say it's still on topic dragging the US economics and its impact onto the equation, and I sure don't need your permission to do so, do I?
41 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 08:58 am Report abuse
Argentines couldn't sell leaves to ants. They're just cognitively incapable.

No point discussing it further. It would be an outright waste of time.
42 Optimus_Princeps (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:00 pm Report abuse
#1 The trade tariffs are killing us. Are you not aware that all the countries that are prosperous have low tariffs or free trade?

Those trade tariffs go directly into the pockets of corrupt politicians. Did I not mention that some companies have to set aside massive amounts of bribe money to get shipments in on time?

I guess it's great to be able to live off meat, potatoes, and yerba; while not really needing much of anything else. The rest of us like goods that are of decent quality. Maybe if the operating costs weren't so high here with taxes and all, we might be able to get somewhere as far as industry is concerned.

Instead we have cheap exploding light bulbs, cheap plumbing, and automobiles that don't even have good seat belts, among other substandard products. The only thing you can get that's quality is a grill and handcrafted goods by local artisans.
43 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:32 pm Report abuse
@42 What's killing them is their adherence to Marxist economics, which even a cursory glance at a school textbook would show you has failed to be implemented successfully in any nation or collection of nations. I think Gordon 'Scottish Independence' Brown was a follower of Keynesian economics. What does that tell you about that?

I guess it's just because they're not very well educated, but they seem to not understand simple facts, like what works and what doesn't.
44 Optimus_Princeps (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 12:48 pm Report abuse
@43 In a nutshell, good economics has always been based on accurate data, and observation. Then using the data as a barometer to gauge your results. If your nation is doing well, keep doing that; if it's not working, change the policies. That might sound over simplistic, but it's not rocket science.

I'm actually a big fan of Adam Smith. He uses examples that are easy to understand, and breaks economics down into simplest terms. There have been major improvements since then, sure, but you can't deny a classic.

Marx had a bunch of half baked theories that fell apart within his own life time. He did more imagining than observing. It makes me wonder why people are so stupid they keep trying his failed ideas.
45 gustbury (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 01:43 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
46 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:00 pm Report abuse
What is the tried and true method that Argentina will take to become “competitive” again, let's say it all together..
DEVALUATION
It'll juice the economy for a bit then watch out below!!
They're still waiting to plant a good proton of their SOY crop...wait wait wait I guess until the season is over
They're going to end up not exporting any wheat..who said that would happen...was it me? Gosh it was!
They may even have to import Wheat from the USA...I will laugh and laugh
I saw yesterday that they are at a 50 YEAR LOW for BEEF exports,
What a lovely model
I think they should write a book
“How to destroy a country in 10 easy steps” by the Ks
47 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:35 pm Report abuse
@42

Pore over 36. and 39.

Under your econony, you would not have to worry about light bulbs, barbecue grills, or seatbelts. Your job would be outsourced to Brazil, China, Mexico, Colombia, taken over by an automaton, or just vanished. So you would not be able to afford yerba mate (which would be imported from Paraguay).

Nothing would be produced in Argentina. Nothing... it would all be gone.
48 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 02:40 pm Report abuse
@47 as compared to your current economy where nothing is produced in Argentina. Nothing... it's all gone.

How clever you are.
49 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:04 pm Report abuse
You do realize you are not helping your cause. You have yet to redact one commenatary on this thread that could be ascribed to anyone within the Primate family.

Don't people here accuse me of at one time posting intelligent postings and now typing prolix dross? Well, I indited three intelligent and meaningful comments whether you agree with them or not. Where is the refutation?

There isn't any because none of you can muster even a cursory rebuttal.
50 Optimus_Princeps (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:04 pm Report abuse
@47 Outsourcing occurs when there is an opportunity to purchase cheap labor that cuts down on the cost of operation. Someone always gets the shaft and that's usually local industry. That's true.

The problem we have now is we can't get imports, the cost of operations is high because of taxes, the poor that would normally be producing goods domestically are sitting on their couches, reproducing, stealing, not getting an education, and are consuming those high taxes.

There are a lot of public universities here, there is a possibility for these lazy people to get jobs. They just don't want to either. If they work, they do an unacceptably sloppy job, they're always late, and they take advantage of their employers.

Votes for Cristina are not worth the burden these people are to this country. A lot of them aren't even Argentinians either. If you want to preserve jobs in Argentina, we need to get these scum bags off their couches.
51 yankeeboy (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
Toby, The only reason you can't see why free trade etc woks is because you have been brain washed and you NEVER LEFT ARGENTINA!
You have absolutely no idea how a functioning economy and society works.
Go to the USA or if you can't stand being in the greatest nation on earth try Canada ( specifically Toronto not so much Quebec/Montreal). It is not quite as efficient as we are but it is a significantly better than Argentina.
52 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:14 pm Report abuse
@49 can you type that again as it wasn't very clear. You're clearly typing from a dungeon-like cellar and your pony-leash is preventing you from typing on one half of the keyboard.

We should all sing some Nestoranity hymns, including the greats like:
'Maximo, lead us to the promised land if you don't eat it first' or 'Christina doesn't curdle milk with her chins, they're all lies' or even the great 'take the money and put it into numbered accounts'

You're probably going to write some nonsense about the USA now, so I'll just leave this here and observe your behaviour based upon this stimulus.
53 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:17 pm Report abuse
yankeeboy
Nobody except you and your compatriots would agree on USA being the greatest nation on earth, neither by size or social prosper. It's merely the greatest consumer society history ever seen, with all the worries that comes with it.
54 Nostrolldamus The 2nd (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:23 pm Report abuse
@53

To be fair theywere at one point. They are no longer because any objective individual cannot declare that a country who depends of foreign coffers for 50% of every dollar is a preeminent power. Heavy indebtedeness to foreign entities has been a CLASSIC criterion to classify a nation as “poor”. Anyone who denies this is a simpleton.
55 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:36 pm Report abuse
@53 the USA is quite good, but England is definitely better. As you know, we invented the carrot-hat and the special area in your shoes where you keep pencils, sweeties and paper. So, I'm not sure the USA is the best but it's definitely in the top 3.

Scotland invented 'tony blairing' which made it drop a few spaces in this decade's tables, mainly because of the impact it had on social morality, the family unit and the usage of lay-bys.
56 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:38 pm Report abuse
54
Well, it's easy to label oneself prosperous on borrowed money, but greatness isn't measured in amount of (borrowed) cash in my book.
57 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 03:45 pm Report abuse
@56 Sure, you folks rate greatness on the amount of money you can steal or immorally hoodwink out of people. Think of the ethical pedestal that you must be sat on with that national life-strategy.

Get back to stroking your mullet.
58 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 05:00 pm Report abuse
Shed
I beg to differ, should I measure greatness by what you state, I wouldn't have disagreed with yankeeboy in the first place. If England is better at it or not, I have no opinion, but if you say so.
59 Shed-time (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 05:25 pm Report abuse
@58 Yes England is quite good, we have nice puddings, thanks for asking. You only disagreed with Yankeeboy because for some reason you La Campora Stormtroopers aren't very intelligent and you thought you should protect the dignity of the country through endless prevarication.

That's what you folks do.
60 Stevie (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 05:33 pm Report abuse
I guess you measure intelligence in the ability to offend people personally on an internet thread.
I'm no big fan of La Campora, as little as I am Argentinian, and in that respect, I can only hope for an adversary with far less of your “intelligence” to counter them.
61 ChrisR (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 06:52 pm Report abuse
WTF gives a damn where AG is. It is obvious that AG is ALWAYS in the bottom quartile or even rock bottom in ANY well run survey (and the inverse for failed security, etc).

What is of concern is the USD 757 Bn swing DOWN in the trading figures of Brasil. This is a huge turnaround for the 6th economy of the world (as they bragged about less than 12 months ago) and yet Dilma still has the numpty as Finance Minister.

And yes, the infrastructure is poor but Dilma is attempting to do something about it unlike the corrupter in chief, Lula.
62 yankeeboy (#) Dec 19th, 2012 - 01:02 am Report abuse
Inflation expectations in Argentina are 37%!!
At what point is it considered Hyperinflation?
50%?
75%
100%
I wonder?
I'm pretty sure a devaluation to 14/1 would get it there pretty quickly.
63 Nostrolldamus The 3rd (#) Dec 19th, 2012 - 02:44 am Report abuse
So, no one had the intellectual capabibility to disprove my analysis that implementing an open economic system would destroy Argentina.

Thank you for your tacit admission through figurative slinking.
64 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 19th, 2012 - 05:02 am Report abuse
@063TTT

“So, no one had the intellectual capabibility to disprove my analysis that implementing an open economic system would destroy Argentina.

Thank you for your tacit admission through figurative slinking.”

Or, perhaps your “analysis” is not worthy of a response. :-D
65 Shed-time (#) Dec 19th, 2012 - 09:11 am Report abuse
@63 No, given the 'objective understanding' that argentines couldn't sell coal to eskimos, then a free market system is unlikely to work for them because, like spanish people, they would just sit around doing nothing and just being lazy all day. Then they'd buy foreign people's food and clothes and then go back to bed and do nothing all day, certainly no sales or marketing. Then they'd wake up, and look at how much they've sold and realise that it's a big fat zero, and blame everyone else for not buying their produce. They would forget that they just spent the whole day being lazy and asleep and doing no marketing. In their anger they would blame their sellers, and not pay for the food or clothes they bought and everyone would lose trust in them.

In a nutshell, that's why they shouldn't have a free market in Argentina. It goes completely against the laziness philosophy, that they inherited from the spanish.
66 yankeeboy (#) Dec 19th, 2012 - 01:42 pm Report abuse
Toby, Unless and until you get a Pinochet to get people to work and stop the corruption Argentina is doomed to failure.

It is the endemic corruption that has killed your country. It has only gotten worse under the Ks. Since Argentina continues to get poorer and poorer with each generation maybe when they are below Bolivia or Paraguay they will finally wake up.
67 British_Kirchnerist (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 06:26 pm Report abuse
Well done Cristina and Dilma for appeasing global finance capital the least =)
68 ChrisR (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
@67

Ha, ha, ha. Cretin, you have no idea what you post, do you?
69 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 12:24 am Report abuse
It's like he digs through bullshit with boxing gloves to find something positive to say.

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