Saturday, December 22nd 2012 - 22:22 UTC

Preaching resentment and confrontation led to extended rioting in Argentina, says leading political analyst

Argentina has lost its limits and references, and this was dramatically expressed these last few days says Joaquin Morales Solá, one of the country’s most respected political analysts, when the looting and rioting extended from Resistencia to the north next to Paraguay, to Bariloche in Patagonia.

There is a loss of respect for rule of the law, authority and work culture, warns Joaquin Morales Solá

Clashes with police, cutting main roads, occupying land, a daily scene in Buenos Aires

Morales Solá argues that despite ten years of a booming economy, there’s still a percentage of Argentines poor or very poor, and vast sectors of the population have lost a sense of the rule of the law and even of the principle of authority.

“The speech full of resentment and the policy of confrontation, so ingrained in the national and popular government have erased any border between good and evil” says Morales Solá adding that the words “stealing” and “private property” ring no bells since they have become ‘baseless’ to the current prevailing doctrine.

The late Nestor Kirchner but particularly Cristina Fernandez have appealed to the government’s communicational resources to promote that under the couple’s two administrations Argentina had never grown so much and sustainedly.

And yes compared to the stats from the collapse years of 2001 and 2002, much has been achieved but the UN Economic Commission for Latam points out that still 30% of Argentine children are poor, and live with poor parents. In the last twelve months the number of unregistered workers has again increased and 60% of all jobs in Argentina continue to be informal. And this is not limited to the private sector: even the Argentine state appeals to informality as it surfaced during the recent uprisings of the security forces which demanded among other things besides higher salaries, that the government deposit the contributions to the old age pensions scheme.

But Morales Solá believes that inflation is one of the major punishments for the low income population. Real income was down 3.5% in the last twelve months, and one thing is 24% inflation with the economy expanding 8%, as in 2011, and 24% with 1% growth this year.

Furthermore the subsidies policy without any matching efforts in education or work, has become an effective electoral instrument of Kirchnerism which has used and abused the resource, meaning there are generations of Argentines that have lost the work culture or have never known it.

Thus when the looting of supermarkets there is a blend of all these factors and an overall feeling of resentment from vandals against those who “have” something or very much, triggering confrontation.

“For a decade the official speech with an enormous influence in the building of social culture demonized the ‘haves’ and in this context for many Argentines “the property of somebody else is a right of those living in the margins” and a ‘natural’ reason to go violently after the enemies of government.

“The State as such did not contain and did not impose limits on a growing social marginalization”.

Likewise there are submerged organizations that promote this kind of vandalisms. For example Quebracho which shares political events from the official stands, next to government officials. But no organization by itself could generate so much violence in such distant places, unless the social and political conditions existed.

Furthermore the government of Cristina Fernandez makes its adversaries even larger than what they are. Cabinet Chiel Abal Median blamed dissident organized labour leader Hugo Moyano for the rioting and looting in the south, north and centre of Argentina.

Does he have the territorial power to mobilize so many thousands at the same time and willing to vandalism? If that was the situation Cristina Fernandez would long have had to share power with teamsters’ union Moyano and she would not be able to control Argentina without his help. But Argentina knows the situation is different.

Likewise the security forces at provincial and federal level seemed incapable of containing the situation. Something similar happened when recent rioting in the centre of Buenos Aires: were the forces not ordered to impede looting? Or were they ordered and they did not abide? Have the different police forces lost their basic training and spirit to anticipate and act on time and as is their duty? Maybe because of so many times they have been told to look aside, drop their arms or not intervene, that has become their natural way of addressing law and order issues?

Whatever reason governors and mayors pleaded for the federal government to send the Gendarmerie the only force in conditions of restoring order, but it is the same force that only a few weeks ago rebelled against government because it was mistreated and ill-considered. At the time it surfaced that the Cristina Fernandez administration even abuses its own praetorian force, the only force she trusts.

All this, says Morales Solá also helps to understand why the soaring rates of crime which has become the number one demand from Argentine public opinion. And this is closely linked to the prevailing social doctrine which says anyone can do whatever they wish as happened Thursday and Friday, because “the ‘have not’ are in their right to take from the ‘haves’. To makes things even more threatening “there is a judicial thinking, currently predominant, which simply wants to abolish the Criminal Code”.
 

221 comments Feed

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1 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 10:52 pm Report abuse
Sooner or later this terrorists will hit the US and UK embassy to get the worlds attention as they did in libya and Iraq, no one cares what Argentine's suffer or stop suffering from, only an attack on the embassy is usually followed by government actions. Maybe the Argentine's like being ignored, the von fire in libya brought a lot more attention then the simple all too common Argentine protest, look at libya no one cared for anything unto the US and UK embassy where set on fire. Argentine's have a lot to learn. ,I demand CFK to deport all this terrorists to Malvinas Argentina or Antartica Argentina as the brits do.
2 Pirate Love (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 10:57 pm Report abuse
Argentinas elected populist peronist government facing its peoples unrest,
how long before live rounds??
3 andy65 (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 10:59 pm Report abuse
YOU GET WHAT YOU VOTE FOR RIGHT????
4 MrFlagpole (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:00 pm Report abuse
It's an horrific situation. History will judge cfk no better than the junta.

I do hope the people can take back their country again. But he process is never easy or quick, you have to find yourselves again.
5 ptolemy (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:02 pm Report abuse
With this government it all starts with Cristina. She only has herself to blame: “distribute the wealth,” and with crime here given the blind eye, we all know what that means.
6 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:09 pm
Comment removed by the editor.
7 ptolemy (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:15 pm Report abuse
@2
A good read here about “ populist peronist government,” : www.buenosairesherald.com/article/117532/argentina%E2%80%99s-stockholm-syndrome
@ 6
Read the above article , another Argentine terrorist for you.
8 Pirate Love (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:19 pm Report abuse
@6 not happy with homosexual discrimination you now think inciting terrorism helps your bullsh*t cause? too much caffeine today??

SELF-DETERMINATION!
9 redpoll (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:33 pm Report abuse
Pirate hunter We are fully aware of terrorist activities in Argentina Bombing of AMIA and the Israeli embassy to start with
10 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:52 pm Report abuse
This man could not be more correct. All cuntina kirchner speaks is resentment of the entire world, rather than making serious attempts to improve the lives of Argentina's lower social classes. It seems easier to resent those that work, earn their way and acquire what they have, the so called “haves”. Now that CFK's policies and I use that word loosely, have crossed over to the values of the poor, she has totally destroyed the fabric of these people. She should have been trying to have policies that would “encourage” businesses to invest in Argentina, thus creating jobs and giving people the opportunity of self sufficiency, coupled with responsibility.
11 Stevie (#) Dec 22nd, 2012 - 11:58 pm Report abuse
Poppy
I agree with him too, I also think that the actions of a population is a reflection of the governance. A fact that is perfectly visible in your own nation as well. I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that you are pointing fingers towards a nation disregarding the fact that your own is pretty much further down in the same hole. While people are looting in Argentina, people are shooting eachother in USA.
It's a good thing to clean ones own house before complaining at the mess of the neighbours.
12 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:16 am Report abuse
@11 Stevie
So, you're saying: “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Well, that would be the end of the blog, end of discussion. No virgins in this forum. Perhaps you should ask people why they are here in the first place,..why they bother commenting.
13 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:22 am Report abuse
ptolemy
No, I'm saying that people should tend to their own problems before pointing at other countries. I would respect their opinions should they come with some auto-criticism as well, but this is not the fact.
It's easy to find failures in other people, but it takes a genuine honest person to see his/her own.
I have little respect for those who defend their right to have flaws and in the same breath denies that very same right to other people.
14 Pirate Love (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:30 am Report abuse
@11 No country is perfect and never will be, and everyone does have the right to opinion, but I fail to see how you can link the two issues, when there is so many issues around the world with every single country, drawing to the conclusion that your logic would state that nobody should have any opinion, as nobodys house will ever be perfectly clean, including yours and mine!
15 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:35 am Report abuse
Well, lets not talk about Argentines as the culprits then, lets talk about good people and bad people, regardless of where they are from. Being Argentine doesn't make you better or worse than anybody else. Lets not divide ourselves by frontiers, because today the looting is in Rosario, yesterday it was in London. Today the shootings are in Connecticut, tomorrow in Sao Paolo.

Be in favour or against any governance, but lets not take the discussion to kindergarden level. There are, after all, people out there that actually thinks for themselves.
16 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:36 am Report abuse
I'm saying there are no snow white people here and I doubt you'll find them anywhere. You seem concerned about bloggers backgrounds and their right to speech and discussion. It's just a discussion.
17 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:45 am Report abuse
You call this a discussion? On one side, a bunch of people bashing a country disregarding their own faults and flaws, and on the other, a very upset nationalist that does nothing but prooves the bashers right?

I understand you are having fun, but don't call it a discussion, it's... I'm not sure what it is, but the quality of it is pretty much absent, that much I do know.
18 bushpilot (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:51 am Report abuse
@ Stevie 11

“I also think that the actions of a population is a reflection of the governance. A fact that is perfectly visible in your own nation as well.”

So, the Connecticut tragedy is a reflection of the Obama administration?

That is not what you meant is it?

Government determines people's behavior. I thought in a democracy people participated and determined government's behavior.

However, it is clear, Mr. Morales Solá is arguing that the government is responsible for this behaviour.
19 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:52 am Report abuse
You only have to weed out what you know to be trolling or lack of quality. Some people here do discuss,.. and offer information.
20 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:58 am Report abuse
bushpilot
It is indeed what I mean, when a government promotes violence, it tends to end up with a violent population. I'm sure Obama as a person is a very peaceful man, but USA is indeed involved in many violent wars around the world, and their “second amendment” is not bringing peace into peoples lives either.
Anyway, this thread is not about USA in particular and I'm sorry to divert, but fact is that what the man in the article is talking about, is very much applicable in all societies.
21 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 01:35 am Report abuse
We love CFK this protesters should bring their protest to the UK and US embassy since they are the one constantly cheering for riots. I say if the English want riots let's bring it to their embassy and show them a protest to remember.
22 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 01:46 am Report abuse
@21
A protest about what?
23 toxictaxitrader2 (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:01 am Report abuse
21 Pirat Hunter As an IrishmanI well know the faults of the Brits,but I cant see how they are involved here?rioting thoughout Argentina,get real
24 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:05 am Report abuse
You are correct that this is not about the USA and if for one moment you think I or any American is unaware of our social problems then you are mistaken. However, you make it sound like all 316,000,000 people are shooting each other like the OK Coral. But overall the problems of Argentina far surpass the USA. We certainly do not allow the actions to happen that take place in Argentina. You can read the news of the USA and form opinions based on what is feed to you. I have a connection to Argentina and as long as I do I will point all of my fingers. What place in the USA did you least like? I can tell you what I liked most in Argentina.
As for the wars, when I think of the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, my response is that we went to easy on the Middle Eastern radicals. Going to war to avenge and defend one's nation does not make a society violent. Do not confuse violence in a society as a violent society. If you think the USA is a violent socirty than I know you have never been here and are a media minded. The middle east is But that's another debate.
The fact remains that your president blames everyone but themselves for the problems it is experiencing. Argentine's that work and support themselves are often the enemy to kirchner. She pits city against province.
When a business enterprise sets up business to produce and sell it's goods, it hires labor to accomplish it's goal. In doing so it is giving individuals the opportunity to support itself from the wages it earns. The business provides jobs, pays taxes to the country and produces the product. But that is not enough for kirchner. When you make auto makers export rice and wine, she is economically out of her mind. Again she rants about how evil the rest of the world is, how the enemy of Argentina is the middleclass. She hates the farmers, she hates the unions she rants so much hatred that the people of Argentina are becoming a product of her jingoistic chauvinism and irrational speeches.
25 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:34 am Report abuse
Poppy
Not many things in your post I can say I agree with you on, and I wont take the discussion with you on this thread.
I will say though, as a citizen of planet earth, I am happy that USA's time as the leading nation is about to end, and the fact it's happening in my lifetime is a privilege. I can't say if the next nation to take over will be better, but they will have to try really hard to be worse, that's for sure.
26 ProRG_American (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:56 am Report abuse
FALSE. Rioting was caused by orchestration by opposition and unions in collusion with foreign intelligence.
27 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:17 am Report abuse
Stevie, btw....are you a female, just curious. IE at the end of a name always signifies female or a little boy. Anyway, the people on the bottom always hope the people on top....like the USA and UK, to be coming to an end. But again it goes to the point the argentine's are always pointing the finger and saying....”not my fault.
Do me a favor.....buy me a malbec when the USA becomes like argentina in 2001 or anytime in the 1900's. I will be broke and looting in the streets. I did not think you could pick a place you least liked in the USA.
I do wish you could present those facts to me? I am more inclined to call them biased and hopeful opinions. It's ashame that most all south american posters here are infected the that disease you all spread.......latin chauvinism. Inflicted because you cannot seem to function in a non latin, diverse world so you all cram together. But you're a good SA, you told who your enemy should be. Funny when in south america,I never see this disposition. Well maybe from the inter-breds and indians. Caio little stevie
28 commonsparrow (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:40 am Report abuse
I understand what he means by erasing borders. You can hear it in the speeches. Chipping away slowly, until you just don't feel anymore.
29 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:20 am Report abuse
And the lies continue their free flow…...............…

Article says:
”And yes compared to the stats from the collapse years of 2001 and 2002, much has been achieved but the UN Economic Commission for Latam points out that still 30% of Argentine children are poor, and live with poor parents.”

I say:
O’RLY???
Let’s take two minutes to find out what the UN Economic Commission for Latinamerica (CELAC) ”REALLY” points out….:
”Argentina 2002 : Poverty 45.4 / Indigence 20.9
”Argentina 2010 : Poverty 8.6 / Indigence 2.8”
That’s what the UN Economic Commission for Latinamerica (CELAC) ”REALLY” points out….
Brainwash anybody?

And yes…,this administration has been confrontational with some “Sectors” of the Argentinean society.

It has been confrontational with the Catholic Church defending the women’s right to dispose over their own bodies and the right of diverse sexual orientations to live legally together.

It has been confrontational with the Armed Farces, dismantling a sick and criminal military organization that only served itself and a minority of privileged Argentines.

It has been confrontational with the Landowner Oligarchy forcing them, for the first time in the history of Argentina, to pay taxes.

It has been confrontational with the Press Monopoly that embodies and supports the three above mentioned “Sectors”.

On all the above mentioned confrontations, the present administration enjoys my full support and, as it has been proved in the last three elections, the support of the majority of Argentineans….

PS:
And yes, the CCTV footage on the looted areas and mobile telephone and SMS records seem to confirm a heavy involvement of dozens of politically active opposition Union members in the organization and realization of the past days disturbances…..
30 HansNiesund (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:29 am Report abuse
@29

So why are the trade unions so opposed to such a paragon of social justice?

Your English is slipping, by the way.
31 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:53 am Report abuse
Who says that Turnips (as poster 30) aren't usefull.............;.)

At (29), I forgot to paste the relevant link to the UN Economic Commission for Latinamerica (CELAC)

www.eclac.cl/prensa/noticias/comunicados/8/45168/tabla-pobreza-indigencia-18paises-es.pdf
32 emerald (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 10:06 am Report abuse
Argentina is not divided by color ( though skin color and religion are all good excuses for the kind of hatred and violence often seen )

But,made sure this country is divided into rich and poor.

The poor are referred as “” Negro “” ,but a “” Negro “” in Argentina may well as be white skinned ,blue eyed blonde of Italian heritage.

“ Negro” is the world describe those of darker skin but more than that the bum and lazy ,but also poor and and uneducated.
33 HansNiesund (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 10:26 am Report abuse
@31

What's happened the regular guy? On his Xmas break? Or off to Bariloche to collect his Xmas bonus?
34 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 10:38 am Report abuse
AND........

In the spirit of Christmas, i won't start discussing who this...: “Joaquin Morales Solá, one of the country’s most respected political analysts” really is..........

But, for anyone with some command of the Spanish language and really interested in Argentinean Affaires and History here is a little, quite informative link about him.....
sur.infonews.com/notas/cuando-morales-sola-no-tenia-miedo
35 Yuleno (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 11:07 am Report abuse
Thanks for the good wishes mercopress.
Would have been nice to extend it to all and not just the anglo's, without highlighting events in Argentina,as your final thread.
36 Mendoza Canadian (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 11:42 am Report abuse
I really do believe that cfk is a very depressed woman...and a very sad person. Pity...things were going well until she took office.
37 Pirate Love (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 11:45 am Report abuse
@35 its an english speaking website? as for final thread highlighting events in argentina, thats their job unlike the majority of argentinas press, mercopress do not pick and choose the news to comply with the governements demands,

until next time.......Merry Christmas & Happy New Year, One and All.

SELF-DETERMINATION!
38 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 11:55 am Report abuse
(36) Mendoza Canadian

O M G
From all the Anglos in the world................
Ware being lectured about depression and sadness by .............
A CANADIAN !.............
That moved to Argentina to enjoy some sunshine in his last years.......

Cheer up mate or move back to sunny Saskatchewan....
39 Optimus_Princeps (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:21 pm Report abuse
My mother came from the generation of the original Peronists. In fact, she was tortured by the junta and if she hadn't been lucky I wouldn't be alive to post this. While, I have taken up my own set of beliefs and disagree with her about many things, she said something of merit.

She said, that the poor and the base of any nation, and their hard work and will define them.

These people that are looting and rioting have less than nothing.
40 Conqueror (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 12:35 pm Report abuse
@1 Typing from the safety of the (British) Commonwealth country of Canada. Do YOU care what argies have to suffer, alex? Then why not go there and help? Just too much cowardice on your part, eh? Perhaps attacks on the UK and US embassies will not take place. Perhaps Royal and US Marines will open fire. Since the argie “police” are also cowards. How do you identify an argie? By the two foot wide yellow stripe down its back!
@13 A real exposition of the “I'm alright, Jack” syndrome. Places like argieland are the root cause of many world problems. As I pointed out the other day, these “rioters” are simply following the example of the argie government. No honesty, no honour, no integrity, no justice, no legality, no respect. And every time the argie government gets away with something, others think “Why not us?” How many millions of people around the world are the argie government cheating? They have to be stopped. Honesty, integrity and peace around the world depend on it!
@15 No! Let's point the finger where it needs to be pointed. Argieland is belligerent, corrupt, criminal, dishonest, greedy, larcenous, mendacious, reckless. And it starts at the top. There are few places in the world where all these faults are so pervasive. There can be little doubt. Argieland has already breached virtually every tenet of civilised behaviour. By definition, such a place cannot be considered civilised. The world needs to act accordingly.
@21 Then you won't mind when the Marines at the embassies open fire, will you? Course you won't. Too cowardly to be there.
@26 Argie government twonk!
@29 IGNORED. AS REQUESTED BY POSTER.
@31 IGNORED. AS REQUESTED BY POSTER.
@34 IGNORED. AS REQUESTED BY POSTER.
@35 May the peace of God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost rest on civilised people. In Britain. In the USA. In Chile. In Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In Taiwan and Singapore. In South Korea. May the spawn of the Devil, led by argieland, enter into Hell and burn forever.
41 surfer (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 01:10 pm Report abuse
The Argentine Govt. need to focus on destroying independent media organisations (don't believe this will end with Clarin) and these stories will no longer be 'front page' news.
42 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 01:13 pm Report abuse
Think can never answer the basis of the article only wants to attack the writer. Sure sign of a weak mind.
Also attacking Expat retirees, do they always have to agree with a everything the gov't does? Argentina needs their $ much more than they need Argentina, do you want to drive out all the “foreigners”? How very Nazi of you!
Seems to me these riots, the edge of hyperinflation and depression is getting to our RG posters. All of us knew it was coming and we warned them. I hope they bought sugar.

Think, as you well know, Elac gets it's numbers from Indec and the only way there is 8% poor in Argentina is if you can eat on U$0.76/day. You can't. My guess is when the stats are recalculated back to 2007 you'll be right at a majority of the country in poverty.

The whole economy depends on the weather which is not really cooperating, very poor Wheat crop this year, worst in 100 years!
Soy is still not 100% planted yet so I'm sure they'll give up soon,
Beef, well they can't even supply the internal market much less export,

So where does this leave them in 2013, hoping for enough Soy exports to pay for Fuel Imports. It may or may not happen.
I hope the crop is worse than 2012.
way worse
If the RGs are too stupid to see how this mad-women is destroying their country maybe a poor crop will be the last straw.
I hope so
Maybe the volcano can help things along a bit, I heard it drove just about everyone out of lovely Chubut. Wasteland, dustbowl,
43 willi1 (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:19 pm Report abuse
unrest, riots, and lootings began with male kirchner´s government: he let the piqueteros - a grou0 of light terrorists to which he belonged in former years - do what they want and they were his fellows against those who did not not agree in his measures.
so ck harvestes what “he” sowed.
44 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:26 pm Report abuse
willi1
That's just not true, I clearly remember the lootings in Argentina before the Kirchners, I remember de la Rua leaving office with a helicopter as a result of the civil unrest.
45 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:32 pm Report abuse
Actually you are both right. It is common practice in Argentina to use mobs/riots to intimidate the opposition. The problem is after awhile they get out of control and could end up turning on you.

I wonder what CFKs escape plan is...
46 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:41 pm Report abuse
yankeeboy
If the lootings began before the Kirchners, they can't have started with Nestor, that's just not possible.
47 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:47 pm Report abuse
They began with Peron but Nestor used Quebracho to intimidate the opposition all the time.
Nestor was a filthy criminal and I am glad he is gone.
48 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:50 pm Report abuse
So was Reagan, and I'm glad he's gone to, and Nixon. He went out the back door just like the la Rua. What does our personal perceptions on former Presidents has to do with anything?
49 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:56 pm Report abuse
Did I hear there were some more riots in Tucuman?
I hope so
I would really like this year to finish with a bang
50 Pugol-H (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 02:57 pm Report abuse
He makes good points.

If you pay people to be poor, then you will have a lot of poor people.

Who in this case have learned from their government that confrontation and confiscation is how to get what you want.

If the Argentine economy is stalled (never mind predictions of free fall), then “unrest” of this sort is only going to increase.

And this is before any real austerity measures have to be implemented.

@25 Stevie
Seriously mate, you need to take off the rose tinted specs, ask the Tibetans or Kashmiris what it can be like. Before you say it, because unlike the coalition forces in Iraq or Afghanistan, they are not going to be un-occupied any time soon.

Also the end of the Pax Americana my not be quite as soon as you seem to think. Problem with predictions of that sort is that they rely upon things continuing as they have so far.

The reality is this never happens, things change.
51 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:09 pm Report abuse
Pugol
You are right. And how they change!
Just look at the World Bank stating good news for world economy when China is set to pick up growth.
52 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:13 pm Report abuse
China's ecnomic stats are almost as bad as Indec. For fear of losing your job you can NEVER report negative growth. It is how every communist economy eventually collapses.
They are on the verge of a banking collapse.
In the next couple years you will see USA Mfg moving back to the USA.
Not a good outlook for China.

China can't start a recovery until the EU is straightened out and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
53 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:19 pm Report abuse
yankeeboy
Read the article again, it's not China's stats, it's the World Bank's.
And no, I don't see any mfg's moving out of China as long as they make more profit over there. Corporations are only ideological until it affects their wallets.
54 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:21 pm Report abuse
Where do you think the World Bank gets it's stats? The country supplies them,
Duh
USA corps are moving back home now and it is only going to pick up as nat gas gets cheaper and cheaper we have an estimated 300 year supply,
Do you read any other news source?
keep up man
55 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:28 pm Report abuse
yankeeboy
You still haven't read the article, have you?
According to the World Bank it's the whole region that is experiencing a boom, and therefor China will pick up its growth. That, and, I quote:

“The impact of easing credit conditions and public investment in infrastructure is beginning to show”

Nowhere in the article does it say that the World Bank bases its numbers on statistics from the Chinese themselves, quite the contrary.
56 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:39 pm Report abuse
Maybe read a little current events about China. I am basing my posts on 100s of articles not just this one.
And yes WB gets their stats directly from the country and BTW they are not very good at predicting anything. Too much politics gets in the way of their reporting. You obviously know very little of how WB functions.
57 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:45 pm Report abuse
Yankee most people realize the reality of USA corporations returning to the USA as China has become riddled in bureaucracy and expensive logistics:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/outsourcing-losing-its-al_n_1698178.html

You are allowing stevie to drag you into a pissing match that does not even include argentina....USA vs China. She knows she is diverting to take away from the fact she cuntina kirchner preached hate, resentment, pits her own people against one another, makes hard working citizens of argentina the the “enemy of the state”, even puts cities against provinces. She created a culture of people expecting handouts without providing education and training and path to work and self sufficiency. Now, she cannot maintain those handouts and the shit vortex is swirling. Yankee, you notice when the last time you heard from asslips?
58 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:46 pm Report abuse
Great yankeeboy
The world should listen to your predictions instead of the World Bank's.
Lets leave it at that, I sudenly got this feeling that we wont get nowhere in this discussion.
One last question for you though, how come you are posting your predictions in MP and not practicing your crystal ball theories in, lets say the halls of the World Bank?
59 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:48 pm Report abuse
Who says I'm not...
60 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 03:53 pm Report abuse
Thought you said they weren't good at predicting anything, so maybe you are working there after all.
You got me confused now, and to be honest, I'm not sure I need further explaination.
61 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:04 pm Report abuse
I can not prediction WHEN something will happen but I can tell you THAT it will happen.
For Argentina it's assured
Devaluation Hyperinflation Generational Depression

next year they will be poorer than this year

Those things I can assure you will happen
if the Soy crop is below 50M it will be next year
if its above you may squeak by again
my guess is you won't tho
at some point the population won't put up with the currency and travel restrictions. I doubt they will let it go another year
but it is an election year so who knows
and in general they are a pretty dumb people
62 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:06 pm Report abuse
if you say so.
63 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:14 pm Report abuse
I do
I am just waiting for a tipping point and it may be happening now.
Seems like the population is a bit fed up,

I hear CFK wants a 20% rise in wages this year, inflation estimates are 36% with 0-1% gdp growth. ( I think the recession will continue)

all depends on the weather tho..

let it rain let it rain let it rain

Have you ever been there?
64 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:15 pm Report abuse
Take a look in your crystal ball, you don't need me to answer that.
65 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:20 pm Report abuse
I wonder if the volcano will shut down most of the airports again.
I hope so
Have you heard if a lot of Americans have canceled over the bloody riots?
I bet they have
I hear there are huge discounts in BA hotels this season
I told them years ago they were over building
What's the peso worth in Brazil I heard 8/1. Is that true?
I am surprised it is worth anything
66 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:31 pm Report abuse
#22 protest the illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentina.
#23 I fail to see how any Argentine's issue has anything to do with british subjects but here they're to pest people, and I am here cheering those whom they pest to pay a visit to the UK embassy as it should be done every time they ask for riots in foreign lands, simple.
#24 CKF with her speech doesn't arm CIA terrorists in the middle east, Unlike USA and UK but this is why Argentine's around the world love and support CFK 100% while outsiders are just obstacles to the evolution of Argentina. I consider USA to be a bigger problem then Argentina ask none Americans and stop talking BS.
#26 not the first time nor the last.
#27 cluster together, lol look around buddy can you be more hypocrite or stupid? How is denial working for you in libya? Kill enough muslim women and children yet?? Lol
#29 CFK is the best Argentine president in 40 years. The english live in denial.
#36 we Argentines love CFK that is why we voted for her, if you didn't like CFK why didn't you vote for menem or vidella. I didn't know Argentina was doing well in 2001. Denial is an english decease you might have contracted it.
#37 how is denial working for you?
#38 mendoza canadian must be someone who got molested as a child by a gang of english men.
#40 I really don't know what you are talking about I live in America and am free to go anywhere I like only the white people need papers. As you claim to be from a canotian tribe. Good luck. I will go to Argentina when the illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentina ends, or Argentina builds a nuclear defense program for us Argentine's to live in security. Simple. How many shots did the US fired before libya's burned the US embassy and killed the US ambassador? What a joke you are. A von fire is hard to shoot out with bullets, try something again.
#42 assado is still the main Argentine dish, wine is the top drink how does that compare with hot dogs, hamburgers and beer In USA or UK? LoL
67 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:38 pm Report abuse
@66
Trolling for any kind fish, huh?
68 ProRG_American (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:42 pm Report abuse
La Nacion and C5N have confirmed that ARA Espora has sailed from South Africa and is headed towards the Brazilian coast where it will join ARA Libertad to escort it into Mar Del Plata Naval base on January 9, 2013.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!
69 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:47 pm Report abuse
@68
( I'll keep it non-political.)

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
70 ProRG_American (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 04:54 pm Report abuse
My wishes are the non political. A little bit of up to the minute news never hurts any one.
71 Clyde15 (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 05:11 pm Report abuse
#66
“I will go to Argentina when the illegal occupation of Islas Malvinas Argentina ends, or Argentina builds a nuclear defense program for us Argentine's to live in security.”
It looks as if you aint goi'n nowhere. Neither scenario will ever happen.
What is preventing you from going there now? Is it cowardice?
You keep telling us what a brave man you are, so PROVE IT OR SHUT UP !!!!!
72 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 05:15 pm Report abuse
70. Germany must have finally gotten their wire x-fer and sent the parts and engineers to fix the heap.
Betcha it doesn't travel too far in the future
Those men are very brave to get on those old rust buckets
very brave indeed
73 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 05:37 pm Report abuse
#71 freedom prevents me from moving back into a british occupied territory, I can prove it come make me shut up. Lol and bring a bag to collect your teeth after am done showing you.
#72 sorry but how do cowards killing muslim women and children from a planes know anything about courage or bravery? Please try telling us something we can actually believe.
74 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 05:48 pm Report abuse
(70) ProRG_American

You say:
“ A little bit of up to the minute news never hurts any one.

I say:

”Up to the minute news“ .........
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm....... :

”(14) Think Dec 20th, 2012 - 10:15 pm
TWIMC
As a service to all Anglo Turnips that have shown some extraordinary interest for Argentinean Ships during the past many weeks, I can inform that.....:
The ARA Espora has just left Simon's Town, ZA and is “en route” to Brazil....”
en.mercopress.com/2012/12/20/ara-libertad-ghana-port-authority-lost-7.6m-dollars-could-demand-nml-capital#comment200050

But, of course, the message was not directed at you.....
You are no Turnip ;-)
75 yankeeboy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 06:03 pm Report abuse
Maybe this volcano will drive the few remaining people out of Chubut...
like everything else in that horrible place it all depends on the weather...

www.lanacion.com.ar/1537887-avance-del-documental-sobre-el-lugar-de-la-argentina-que-mas-rapido-se-despuebla
76 Anbar (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 06:15 pm Report abuse
good old think: If you cant shoot down the message, shoot down the messenger.

and remember the Argentine national saying “Its never our fault!”

Argentine Governments generally only share one factor between them: which is self-destruction. The actual Argentinians seem stuck in a permanent morass of politicians who simply cannot break out from the trap of the masses of vote-rigged under privileged. ...

until that cycle is broken then the average Argentine is stuck with semi-despotic delusional power-mongers who can offer nothing other than populism as a way forward.

A way forward that everybody knows will always fail, as it always has.

And I feel so sorry for all the other Argentines who know they are, seemingly, stuck in this cycle of self-hate and self-doom.

I dont give a hoot about idiots such as the delusional fargas kid: sponging off other nations whilst pretending to be a nationalist..the kid is just plain doolally.... but it must be truly horrid to be a middle-class Argentine knowing that, sooner or later, the government is going to f-you over, and that your vote will always be nullified by the masses of poor people signed-up to vote as ordered for a few pesos and boxes of free food.

Look, anybody in any nation who think that their politicians or political system is perfect is a ruddy idiot, but compared to Argentina we live in a golden age.

And its such a crying shame..they deserve so much more.
77 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 06:42 pm Report abuse
366 PISS HOLER What a frightened hypocrite. Professing how great argentina is form the comforts of North America, but I can't blame you. Apparently the “occupation” has you so afraid that you fled from argentina and left you compatriots to fend for themselves.

#72 Yankee, I've been in the Atlantic this time of the year from the North Atlantic to the roaring 40's, it is far from fun. I am not sure that are are as much brave as they have no choice. I also read that outlawing the U$ dollar with continue into 2013, probably because they are worried about agriculture this year. With this weather, soy and wheat exports will not bail them out this coming year.
Anyone seen or hear from the Great Cunt of Argentina yet....or is she still having IV anti -depressants pumped into her?
78 yd1982 (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 06:44 pm Report abuse
If the British had successfully taken over Buenos Aires and so forth in 1806 and 1807, NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING!!!!! Argentina/Uruguay would have developed like Canada, Australia, the US, etc. given that just like those other areas, Argentina is a temperate-zone land and didn't have large indigenous populations.

Another question, I'm wondering if, at the height of the 1970s crime wave in New York and other major American cities, there were lootings like that? Because I doubt that crime in Argentina is as high as in Brazil, Venezuela, etc. and it was more comparable to 1970s American crime probably.
79 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 06:46 pm Report abuse
(75) Dear Mr. Fred Bates from Watchinton, D.C.

Ahhhh............ You really know how to make Ol' Think happy :-)

My wonderful Chubut..........

The little area of Las Plumas on your linked video at (75) reminds me a lot to the Red Desert, WY.....

Ever been to WY, Fred……….......................? Beautiful place too.

I'll include a picture of one of my favourite fisheries just in that area of Chubut......

farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/3260562091_c3e6bff813_b.jpg
80 Clyde15 (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
#73
A piece of news, just off the press, Britain does not control Argentina!
I am sure Nos, Think etc will confirm this. You are now “safe” to return to your homeland. Of course one of the definitions of a coward is someone who takes action when there is no danger threatening.
By your own words you have said you are a coward.
81 CJvR (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
@66 “CFK is the best Argentine president in 40 years.”

So...
She is merely grossly incompetent then?
Best Argie Prez doesn't say much does it.
82 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
What led to this, it’s the other guys fault.

Rioting is not confined to Argentina, rich or poor nations,
Dictatorships or democracies,

Violence probably started when the first chimp pushed the other chimp out of the tree, so he could get to the ladder first, [ the rest as they say, is history]

Their was rioting in Egypt 100BC, throughout the Greek and roman empires,
As soon as gunpowder was invented, they blew each other up,
When guns were invented they shot each other up,
Violent crime has been with us for thousands of years,
And will probably stay with us, for thousands of years,

Sadly it seems to be only the human species that like to slaughter each other,
Built on greed, corruption, and violence,

Mostly it is preventable; mostly it is aggravated by others,
Why we do it,
We just don’t know,
Why are humans inherently violent?
But if we stopped blaming each other, and worked together for the betterment of man [or woman]
Perhaps the world would be a safer and more civilised place to be,
After all, we cant have raving violent lunatics ravaging the universe ,
All in the name or exploration can we,

So why are we so violent,
If you ever find out, please let the rest of us law abiding people know,,
Until then, have a nice British Christmas and a peaceful, happy new year.
Thank you.??

.
83 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:01 pm Report abuse
If she is the best president in 40 years, that is beyond sad to have a wax replica of a human being as the best person running the country. I suppose by argentine standards, best means “destroying the country the least” or “destroying the fastest”?
84 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:06 pm Report abuse
These are your arguments as to why Argentina is what you say she is? Have you folks not had any form of education? Is this the standard of British educational system? For God sake, you people are embarrassing.
85 ElaineB (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
@84 Why are you bashing the British all the time? Is that the only reason your are here? etc. etc.
86 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:19 pm Report abuse
When have I bashed the British? I surely don't hope thos people represent the Brits, the lack of formal education is palpable. They aren't insulting anybody but themselves. There are 2 Argentines here practicing the same behaviour, but there's far too many Brits (or so the say) followed by some Yanks, all seemingly to habe dropped school after finishing second grade.
I can understand the Yanks, they have an excuse, but I really expected more from the Brits. After all, they have a reputation of being people of manners. Could it be true that time has taken its toll so severely? I surely hope not, I surely hope this is where they gather and that there's no more to it.
87 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:42 pm Report abuse
We think you may find that it is only a blog,
And very highly spirited,

No one believes most of the things some have to say,

No disrespect here, but please
This must be the last place one would expect a priest [in spirit] to be.

It’s only light hearted,
Relax,
Sit is a fridge for 5 min, and be cool.
.
88 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:44 pm Report abuse
How come the abusive Argentine post are being removed by the editors, all while the just as abusive British comments are not? You sure it's light hearted, or just selective?
89 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:47 pm Report abuse
oh stevie, if chica's like you are not embarrassed from the simple fact of being argentine, you are a true argentine and incapable of being embarrassed, only laughed at by the other 5.5 billion people in the world. Don't worry though, your dictator will make some appearance soon. We know she is holed getting iv anti-depressants.
I read that the Musetta bike factory is near out of business because the the Feb 1st outlawing of 600 products for import. But hey, Buenos Aires City has a bicycle ownership loan program to help people buy bikes. How expensive are bikes that one needs a loan to buy one? Or is that the average level of wealth of the argentine?
90 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
we have had this before,
and brits are also removed, as well as argies,

some do go over the top,
but im sure as said previously,
if they met in person, respect would almost certainly be shown..
91 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
Poppy
You might be made of gold, but obviously you can't afford a proper education, your rants are laughable.
92 ChrisR (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:54 pm Report abuse
All the Brits and our friends (especially Yankeeboy and Capt. Poppy):

STEVIE SAYS “I will say though, as a citizen of planet earth, I am happy that USA's time as the leading nation is about to end, and the fact it's happening in my lifetime is a privilege. I can't say if the next nation to take over will be better, but they will have to try really hard to be worse, that's for sure.”

Straight out of the papers that you believe tell the truth, far better than anyone in country (especially an ex-pat and a BRITISH ex-pat at that). And, we are so embarrassing are we?

This infantile poster decries ex-pats who go to a country, invest ALL their money in the country, pay TAXES to that country but will not say WHAT country he is from.

Perhaps from his poor English spelling and supercilious manner we could have a guess. So far he has deprecated:
Britain and the USA;

What about his character and personality traits?:
Defensive of Argentina, especially the K’s.
Uses ‘bashes’ a lot, just like TTT;
Has not answered where he/she/it lives, what sex is he/she/it and stops posting for a while when questioned;
Has stated he/she/it travels and has been to “the little country of Uruguay” but has not (as far as I know) listed anywhere else;
Claims not to be a Malvanista (like TTT);
Very ‘good’ at deprecating everybody who dares to tell the truth about AG;
Is unable to grasp simple concepts like the fact that the World Bank has to rely on the country it is reporting on for the data it uses to report!
Thinks China is doing well without grasping the fact that the leaders of China have been proven to lie through their teeth about their performance figures (much like his/she/its beloved AG and INDEC)

I don’t think we can take any notice of, or believe anything, that he/she/it posts.
93 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 08:59 pm Report abuse
Like your asshole.....you have an opinion too. The former serves you better. Educations at la campora is just not my thing, but I guess for your breed that is considered formal. I guess hearing about bike loans seems outrageous, at least to the developed world. But the Musetta bike factory is a reality. One of many dying a slow death, but increasingly faster these days.
One thing I have always admired in your types, is the unsubstantiated egos.
94 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:03 pm Report abuse
Like I said, you are a Yank, you have an excuse.
95 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:04 pm Report abuse
This blog starts with [number one, pirate hunter]

And look at the insults, the brits merely reply,
Uncalled for, an ungentle manly remark,
Wishing the destruction of the Americans and the British, in favour of a dictatorship, from a safe distant country like Canada,

And wonders why people laugh at him.
96 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:06 pm Report abuse
So just because one guy is being a moron, you insist in doing it better than him?
97 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:09 pm Report abuse
And you stevie as well being a mixed breed, a much better excuse, it is not in your DNA.
98 ElaineB (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:13 pm Report abuse
@92 He/she started with the passive/aggressive posts but the message is the same, no one outside of Argentina has any right to comment on the country or the government.

Wrong.

Anyone can express an opinion here. It is a message board where anyone can comment on the stories posted here. A simple concept.
99 briton (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:14 pm Report abuse
you insist in doing it better than him

one does not insist on anything,
one mearly replies, as you have.
100 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
Of course you can, Elaine. You are also free to expose any kind of stupidity doing so, I was just wondering if there was anyone with any kind of wits about in order to have a serious discussion.
But hey, if you want to present your nation as a place full of hillbillies, be my guest.
101 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:30 pm Report abuse
#92 ChrisR Interesting analysis. It seems to have that over developed expanse of delusions of grandeur and over indulged self worth and the obvious lack of formal education as it constantly brings it up to everyone. I am thinking it's a Mendoza back woods boy.
102 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:32 pm Report abuse
Poppy, I'm quite sure it isn't the first time that you , thinking, reached a conclusion that has little to do with reality.
103 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:38 pm Report abuse
(100) Stevie
You say...:
“I was just wondering if there was anyone with any kind of wits about in order to have a serious discussion. ”

I say...:
There are........
Quick, from the top of my head, I could mention some Anglos as....:
Scotsman Mr.DoveoverDover from Kent,
Englishman Mr. Geoffward2 from Brazil,
Black Countryman Mr.Lordton from Thailand,
Englishman Mr. dab14763 from Perú,
Welshman Welshwizard from ?England?,
Englishman/Kelper PominOz from Australia.....
and a whole bunch of other witty people that have guested this pages but got tired of the “Insulting Turnips”, as I call them.....
104 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
#80 you are wrong Nancy. I am 100% American. I Don't know what you are talking about. Why don't you go? You know where!
#81 I don't think the press can manufacture a better president. He/she simply doesn't exist. Trust me I asked everyone already, their best bid was macri. God forbid.
#85 because we Argentines do not exclusively go to UK news links to bash them on the comment threads, but as you can see from the Comments above, more british then Argentine's come to Argentine news link to specifically bash our president, culture, way of life and people, if you had taken the time to read and ask the same question of the brits the conclusion would become obvious. It's part of the english culture to not have a balanced view on things, Afghanistan and Iraq are evidence of the english man intentions.
#86 ho no, no, no! There is a lot more, 86 comments is a drop in a bucket compared to the sometimes 200 regurgitated british thoughts occurring daily. I can understand your conundrum. but people of manners? Really? I can assure you that if I had slaves I would have manners with my kind too, Sorry my history books don't say much good about brits, And their reputation for being leeches has a lot more weight then any fine word.
105 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:47 pm Report abuse
Think
Glad to hear that. As it is, I can feel the idiocy affecting my judgement. Last thing I'd like is to become like them and insult for the sake of insulting.
For two reasons. First off, it would be a shame to use my time doing so, and secondly, it would be far too easy.
106 ptolemy (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 09:51 pm Report abuse
@105
Then you have already wasted you time. Move on.
107 Think (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 10:27 pm Report abuse
TWIMC…..:

This picture shows “”“---One of the country’s most respected political analyst---”“”, Joaquin Morales Solá (far right), entering the infamous torture and extermination center ”Escuelita de Famaillá” in the province of Tucuman, together with general Acdel Vilas, in 1975……..
sur.infonews.com/sites/default/files/12-morales-sola-arriba.jpg?1293942576

My question is…..: Respected......? Respected by whom......?

The author of this article, Joaquin Morales Solá , was summoned by the Courts last year to “explain” this recently found picture…….
He couldn’t remember it…..
Case is ongoing…

No wonder that he is against what he calls “The preaching of resentment and confrontation” by the present Administration…..

We others call it....... “Justice”.
108 Stevie (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 10:35 pm Report abuse
Ouch, Morales seems to suffer from selective memory. Thank you for sharing, Think, one by one they are all being put to justice. I just read about another case in SA where a torturer described his methods in a book, and when brought to justice, his excuse was that he didn't mean it literally, it was just a “way of expression”
109 so_far (#) Dec 23rd, 2012 - 11:21 pm Report abuse
107 & 108

Señores, i gree with both about this special guy joaquin morales solá, as well many man other “personajes” around.....

I dislike La Nación or Clarín, almost in the same intensity i dislike 678....

This the original article from JMS.......please read it, worth it for an small reflection of what is going on...at least in the view of few...

www.lanacion.com.ar/1539590-expresion-de-impunidad-y-resentimiento
110 scarfo (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 12:33 am Report abuse
92

good post.

stevie the mask has slipped a bit too far this time!
111 andy65 (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 01:04 am Report abuse
@92 ChrisR, Great post I gave it to Stevie on another post,just like his lover Crissy only he,she,it hides behind a keyboard defendeing a tyrant loooose for want of a better word.
112 ptolemy (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 02:16 am Report abuse
@109
So, reading the article didn't say much more than numerous other sites had already reported. It was just a summary of known facts with an opinion. Where are you going with this?
113 Conorworld (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 02:49 am Report abuse
You cannot blame Cristina fully for this. Argentina has always been a country of haves and have nots and this has become part of the DNA of Argentina.

However Cristina has a lot to answer for. She has created conflict where there should not be conflict. She seems to live off creating enemies, making people who dissent against her existential threats to be removed at all cost. She has become obsessed with it. I kind of mentioned it in my blog last week

conor-world.blogspot.ie/2012/12/the-curious-case-of-cristina-and-clarin.html

As much as a debate about media is needed in Argentina, people CONSISTENTLY mention inflation and the spluttering economy. She has become distracted by fighting these perceived enemies and has abdicated her responsibility of the economy for a pantomine of confrontation.
114 ptolemy (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 03:08 am Report abuse
@113
I concur. Her current vendetta : www.argentinaindependent.com/category/currentaffairs/newsfromargentina/ ( I can not see how this will ever fly.)
115 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 05:12 am Report abuse
#113 IMF, WTO, UN, UK, USA and their corporates have being around long before CFK was even born, perceived enemies? I can assure you they are real. There is only one group of people preaching resentment and confrontation, that is mecopress an the english groupies, the title in this article says it all. Stick around you might learn something new.
116 Conorworld (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 07:13 am Report abuse
@115 What about Clarin, the farmers, other politicians? “IMF, WTO, UN, UK, USA and their corporates” ? How about Cristina fixes her own country and tackle the issues that really matter to people, what the person on the street says are the pressing problems - crime, inflation, poverty. What Cristina is doing is deflecting things going for all those people you mention. Why? Because she can't really help them so to shore up her own support she makes battles with others. She should govern and tackle crime and inflation and stop looking for fights like she is some testosterone-fuelled schoolboy trying to make a point.
117 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 08:19 am Report abuse
Quite Machiavellian, 'ole CFK, pitting one group against another. Ruthless, with no compassion. Very transparent that she manipulates the masses.

@Stevie
The topic is about Argentina and CFK “preaching resentment and confrontation”.

Like everyone else, I am free to comment as I like on that subject, without being obligated to link it to criticism of my government, culture, or nationality.

Too bad for you if you don't like it.
Stay on topic please.

Merry Christmas to the Yanks, Falklanders, Commonwealth, and Brit posters on Mercopress!

Dame Dover and BK, this does not include you.
118 Viva Las Falklands (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:16 am Report abuse
Why do Argies pretend to be from other countries? They must be so ashamed of being Argies!
119 ElaineB (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:22 am Report abuse
@118 They think it gives them credibility they wouldn't have as an Argentine. Quite wrong because I think most of us are far more interested in the comments from Argentines living in Argentina, rather than exiles believing some fair story that has no basis in reality.

Usually they exhaust an ID by making it completely discredited and come back as another character. They always slip up.
120 shb (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:30 am Report abuse
This unrest is partly the fault of CFKs aggressive policies against the UK in general and the Falklnads in particular.

If you have a situation where masked thugs are allowed to attack tourist operator offices, ships that have thought to have gone to the falklands are ransacked and mob rule (I am thinking of violent anti Britsh demonstrations) is tolerated for political purposes, you have a breeding ground for the mental mindset that leads to the kind of looting and riots we have seen in Argentina.

If the police stand back and allow the kind of activities above to take place, due to orders from the civic authority, then those elements in society who are “chancers” are likely to try their hand at other crimes.

We had it last year, and the Argentine bloggers thought it was hilarious.

Now that smugness and self satisfaction has come back to bite them on the backside.

CFK has'nt a clue about how to enrich Argentina, all she can do is tear down the structure of the country and scream at “foreign enemies”, while lining her own pockets.

Encouraging an atmosphere of lawlessness as state policy leads to a diminishment of respect for law and order, and increased crime.
121 Stevie (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:31 am Report abuse
I don't think you'll find many Argentines living in Argentina in these threads. Mainly because they don't usually speak English. Those who left Argentina for different reasons, usually learns English in their new country, and those in Argentina that are fluent in English, usually arrive there from somewhere else.
If MP would allow comments in Spanish, you would most certainly have the opportunity to talk to all kinds of Argentines.
Then again, my guess is that there is meaning with everything.
122 emerald (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:51 am Report abuse
Think

go step up to some Scandinavian(despite of you are not from there ,i thnk!) heritage web sites.

you do know nothing on Latin America, do not ruminate here in vain.
123 Clyde15 (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 10:15 am Report abuse
#121
Yes,if you were able to converse in Spanish you could, but my “tourist Spanish”would preclude this.
As far as I know, MP is the only site where it is “mandatory” to write in English. There appear to be plenty of other Spanish speaking sites where “South Americans ” are extremely offensive to the UK and Falkland Islanders.
I cannot understand why posters feel they must hide behind “aliases” and keep their nationality hidden. Surely they should reveal their motives and prejudices in their posts from a national perspective.. I may not like or agree with what they say BUT at least I would know that it was a genuine opinion from an Argentinian.
From my own point of view, the only things I would not broadcast are my house address,telephone number or email address and, for obvious reasons, I would not expect anyone else to reveal the same.
The only topics I would comment on are where it affects the UK and/or the Falklands. I know nothing of Argentinian internal politics and care even less.
124 Doveoverdover (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 11:18 am Report abuse
@117 It's all humbug anyway.
125 ElaineB (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 11:23 am Report abuse
Argentines in Argentina don't usually speak English? Really? Not my experience at all. And I don't visit as a tourist.
126 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 12:36 pm Report abuse
I have found that many Argentine's in Argentina speak English and very well.
127 Anbar (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 01:17 pm Report abuse
Curious how whenever somebody starts questioning the authenticity of certain “they sound like a made-up person/scok-puppet account” that Think always shows up to start having a duologue with them.

odd that.

As to serious discussion “stevie” the big problem is that whenever a pertinent point, sensible comment or historical fact is pointed out, the Malvinistas sock-puppets always ignore it and go off at a tangent.

Such as criticising the educational system.

funny old thing: cant shoot down the message, shoot down the messenger.

Now WHY is that phrase familiar?

Oh, yes, because its the same (very few) people with all of their sock-puppet VPN accounts posting the same crap, in the same manner....

and they cant help repeating themselves using the same phrases and acting in the same way.

Predictability defines their exposure in sock-puppetry.

(And that anybody other than a stooge like Think can link DoverOver, who has been categorically outed as a proven sock-puppet as “a serious poster” just proves the point beyond any doubt.)

So, stevei, until all of your sock-puppetry ends you wont get a serious discussion because you dont have the ability to post as true individuals.

There's a couple of legitimate Argentine posters on here and they're unfailingly rational, polite, serious and, oddly enough, cant stand CFK.

odd that.
128 yankeeboy (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 01:55 pm Report abuse
Couple things, if you only read the posts in MP you would think Argentina was filled to the brim with multi languaged, Scandinavian descent, retourandos, atheists, that hate the UK and USA. It is not. I lived there many years and have traveled often and never met one. But here my gosh how many did we have at 1 time 5 different posters with teh same backgrounds?
Idiot
On another topic, Think loves that the gov't happens to find a picture to incriminate an opposition journalist. How convenient, not only do they want to “trash the presses” like their deity Peron but they want to persecute the lone voices that disagree with the gov't!!
THINK feigns intelligence but he is one of the most stupid people on the board right up there with ProRg and Pirat Hunter, because even with his age and supposed higher intelligence he can't see that the Ks are nothing but filthy Nazis and destroying a free press is just one step to a total Dictatorship.
He is a really dumb man. I don't feel sorry for him though I hope he gets all he deserves in 2013.
129 Optimus_Princeps (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 03:06 pm Report abuse
@121 Your statement isn't true. There are quite a few people in Argentina that speak English. Many people learn it because their profession demands it. I work with computers and most of my clients are in the U.S. and Canada.

As for the situation here, it's been going on for quite some time. The foreign press took long enough to start publishing articles about it. The crime rate has been high and has continued to sky rocket out of control. Cristina brings in filth from neighboring countries, and makes it difficult for educated people to enter the country even for school.

There are certain idiots that haven't been able to witness what's been going on here, and have been loudly shouting their idiocies without knowing that this is nothing new. When I got the news, I was surprised it hasn't happened earlier. It wasn't orchestrated by any outside source. These scum bags have been at it for a while now, it only escalated.
130 Doveoverdover (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 04:00 pm Report abuse
@127 Signing off as “odd that” is just one letter off being a very accurate description of yourself.
131 ElaineB (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 04:27 pm Report abuse
Merry Christmas everyone.
132 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
Preaching war mongering caused this,
m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/14/newtown-shooting-gunman-kills-20-children
And this is how thankful the afghan women are to the english.
m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/24/afghan-military-police-shoots-adviser
And this is how thankful the Libyans are to the english.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19607834
And here is a link to show how Saddam and bin laden are wining the war in Iraq.
www.naharnet.com/stories/en/64950-iraq-attacks-kill-48-on-eve-of-u-s-pullout-anniversary#new-comment
#128 clarin and mercopress propaganda is not free press, its all targeted and calculated attacks against Argentina and a struggle to hide the terrorism brought to the world by NATO, USA and UK. All the terrorists in the world are payed by CIA, MI6 and mossad, that's all there is to it.
133 neutral_observer (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 04:49 pm Report abuse
Chistina.
134 yankeeboy (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 05:04 pm Report abuse
Ahh beautiful BA, 120 heat index and no garbage pickup. Heavenly!

No wonder there are so many vacancies in the Hotels this year...
135 Pirat-Hunter (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 06:08 pm Report abuse
Good news everyone no children got harmed at the demonstration in Argentina, CFK is the best president Argentina had in 40 years,we love you CFK keep up the good work. The CIA should bring the demonstration to the US embassy.
Www.m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/14/newtown-shooting-gunman-kills-20-children

Www.m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/24/afghan-military-police-shoots-adviser

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19607834

www.naharnet.com/stories/en/64950-iraq-attacks-kill-48-on-eve-of-u-s-pullout-anniversary#new-comment
136 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
@130,132,133, 135
And this Christmad thread, too, ends with a hateful slag fest by the Nazi Trolls :-D

Enjoy your Christmas in your own special ways.

LOL
137 British_Kirchnerist (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 08:04 pm Report abuse
#107 Not hugely surprised, when he called for a culture of authority and said Cristina's supporters were in favour of abolishing the Criminal Code I thought this looked like the fascist face of the right wing opposition...
138 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 24th, 2012 - 09:46 pm Report abuse
@137 BK
or Peronist totalitarian posing as a left-wing Socialist.
139 briton (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 12:10 am Report abuse
132 Pirat-Hunter [states]
[And here is a link to show how Saddam and bin laden are wining the war in Iraq. ]
He forgot to mention gaddafi , Benito Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin, are winning their local wars.

Oh and we almost forgot to inform you, of a very little slight problem with your item.

They are all dead ??

.
140 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 12:19 am Report abuse
briton pirate hunter should emulate his heros
141 briton (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 12:22 am Report abuse
wish he would,
then perhaps we could have silence ha ha .
142 Ayayay (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 06:19 am Report abuse
Merry Christmas
143 shb (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:17 am Report abuse
@135 prat

Rrrrriiiggghhhtttt.

So Saddam, Gaddafi and Bin laden are victorious?

They all suffered the same ignominious end - death and failure, while dragging nations down into the flames with them to feed deranged visions of the way the world should be.

At least those countries now have a chance to sort themselves out.

Those murdering thugs won't be missed, except by the likes of you.

Doubtlessly you admire Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo too...........
144 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 09:26 am Report abuse
@143shb

You are spot on, shb !!!

PH aka ALEX VARGAS, has a Face Book page full of Gad-daffy, Assad, CFK, and La Campora links, images, and propaganda.
145 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 03:18 pm Report abuse
I always thought his statements supporting extremist terrorist were out there. He is a argentine populist living in Canada supporting kirchner's destructive policies and radical muslims. He idolizes hitler, gaddafi, assad, saddam.....appears to be made in the la campora labs. He is by far the strangest. What ever happened to sussie? Lab recall?
146 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 03:56 pm Report abuse
132

...all terrorists in the world are paid by CIA,MI6,Mossad......

Is Israeli Lobby in US , does have some interrelations within these activities??????....,who has been adjusting of their special status...no other country holds this special exceptions to US laws of citizenship.

Here is the dual citizen(US/Israel)prominent Jews list

Senate :

R.Blumenthal...B.Boxer...B.Cardin...D.Feinstein...A.Franken...H.Kohl...F.Lautenberg...J.Lieberman...C.Levin...B.Sanders....C.Schumer...R.Wyden...M.Bennet. ...total 13 units...

House of Representatives :

G.Ackerman..S.Berkley...H.Berman...E.Cantor..D.Ciciline...S.Cohen...S.Davis...T.Deutch...E.Engel....B.Filner...B.Frank...G.Gifford...J.Harman...S.Israel...S.Levin...N.Lowey...J.Nadler...J.Polis...S.Rothman...J.Schakowsky...A.Shwartz...A.Schiff...B.Sherman...D.W.Schultz...H.Waxman..A.Weiner...J.Yarmuth.....total 27 units...

so you might ask are there any other dual US/Israel citizens who hold US government positions that could compromise the US security ? Yea here is their list :
M.Mukasey...M.Chertoff...R.Perle...P.Wolfowitz...L.Franlin...D.Feith...E.Luttwak...H.Kiissinger...D.Zakheim...K.Adelman....I.L.Libby...R.Satloff...E.Abrams...M.Grossman...R.Haas...R.Zoelick...A.Fleicher....J.Schlesinger...D.Frum...J.Bolten...J.Bolton....D.Vurmser...E.Cohen...M.Sembler...S.Goldschmith...A.Goldman...J.Gildenhorn...C.Gernsten...M.Weinberger...S.Bodman...B.Cohen...R.Davis...D.Kurtzer...C.Sobel...S.Bernstein...N.Brinker...F.Lavin....R.Weiser...M.Sembler...M.Silverstein....L.Bloomfield...J.Lefkowitz...K.Melman...B.Blakeman...
147 emerald (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 05:59 pm Report abuse
* 132* PH

CIA,,Mossad,,MI6...all are nothing ,only official services.

Ask to “ Colorado Owl ” /Think who would reply below questions not us !

* Where are some terror elements hidden in messy country Argentina institutions ?
* Which countries do “” desaparecidos “” live under which identities ?

-- -- -- --

*146* LT

My thought is ,messy country Argentina Jews are more dangerous than US ones.
148 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 06:29 pm Report abuse
light thinker you really take your name....light thinker serious.......lol
149 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 06:50 pm Report abuse
Ahhh... Christmas in the USA... The snow, the kitsch overdone music, the mirth, the mass shooting with a neighborhood set on fire... Americana at its best.

news.yahoo.com/man-killed-2-firemen-left-note-killing-plan-165807219.html
150 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:04 pm Report abuse
148

You all should live very carefully like me .......

The latest development in technology of induced fear of mind control is the cloning of the human EEG or brain waves of any targeted victim or indeed groups.With the use of powerful computers,segment of human emotions which include anger,anxiety,sadness,fear,embarrassment,jealousy,resentment,shame, and terror have been identified and isolated within the EEG signals as “ emotion signature clusters”.Their relevant frequencies and amplitudes have been measured .The the very frequency/amplitude cluster is synthesized and stored on another computer.Each one of these negative emotions is separately tagged.They are then placed on the Silence Sound carrier frequencies and could silently trigger the occurrence of the same basic emotion in another human being.
151 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:15 pm Report abuse
What would it be if a day has not gone by without titti boi nostril diverting the article away from the woes of argentina. Agentines fear talking about their problems on a site geared for that and what do they do? Steer the focus away and pretend they do not exist.
Has asslips kirchner been spotted yet or is she still in hiding for over a week now?

titti I can hook you up with a news site that even shows worst events in the USA, just so to can again, steer away from the article? Would you like that?
152 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:25 pm Report abuse
I'm just catching up captain pooper. I was out from here in the weekend doing activities, and of course yesterday I wasn't available for obvious reasons and also from losing power for a couple of hours.

I just had to catch up on how disastrous a holiday it was on the failing nations of the USA, UK, and Europe.

So what's the growth for next year up there... 4%? 5%? Booming industrie in the UK and USA?

hahahahahaaha
153 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:29 pm Report abuse
not only Argentines also US citizens fear talking about their problems
here is few of them...
~ nearly 50 % of Americans die broke...
~ labour participation rate is at 30 year low..
~ household income fallen 1995 levels..
~ every 1/7 Americans received food assistance program..
~ every 1/130 Americans in prison...

so many other problems ...............
154 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:32 pm Report abuse
MERRY CHRISTMAS Captain Poppy!!

Hoping you and your family are enjoying themselves on the East Coast.

We are heading to California tomorrow morning.

Looking forward to spending some time in beautiful, friendly, and safe, San Francisco. Chinatown is fun there.

We'll have some nice seafood in Sausilito, and a weekend in Napa. Some really good Pinots there. Far better than the Malbecs we used to buy.

Just finished watching the Queen's Christmas Message of Peace and Good Will to the Commonwealth and our friends around the Free World.

To the La Campora Trolls, and Pirat Hunter, you can belong too...

Our Queen rocks!!

youtu.be/1AS-dCdYZbo

Your 'Queen', not so much

youtu.be/j0fywBbhvxo
155 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:38 pm Report abuse
My advice do not watch YouTubes ...watch below vidoes

shop.history.com/detail.php?a=73738

You should develop your mind before discussing with us.
156 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:39 pm Report abuse
But she was kicked in the arse twice trying to take us over didn't she?

And that's why she is utterly irrelevant here. Take the Queen's message, and the Pope's, and any other European or North American and shove it up deine Po. Verstehst du? Dégage gros enculé, je t'enmerde.
157 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:41 pm Report abuse
@156 Nozzy

I hope you spend your day the way you enjoy it most.

:-D
158 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:45 pm Report abuse
CaptainP 's boat ashored by the reason of TTempest.!

Laugh..laugh
159 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:48 pm Report abuse
Merry Christmas to you and your family Troy. Try to hit Pier 39 in SF if you can. I have not been to California in some years. My wife is in BsAs with her family and I will be heading there at the start of the new year.

Best wishes for the new year and safe travels friend.

PS
It's like TMBOA has totally disappeared.....lol. There's hope yet
160 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
Leck mich doch an meinem Arsch, ganz langsam und dann geh kacken, na gut... Toi et tous les autres connards qui nous traitent comme de la merde pendant l'année. A la puta que los remil defecó cuando esta estaba en el baño del bordel donde conoció a tu padre.

That is the message of the Argentine people to the rest of the world, I can guarantee you that! You will never have friendly relations with us, ever again... that goes to all of the nations of Europe, North America, South America, and Asia.
161 LightThink (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 07:52 pm Report abuse
cheap gas !

what a browny.
162 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:01 pm Report abuse
Blow your nose again nostil before you get a brain infection. You speak for yourself and the other la campora zombies on this sight......no one else, or you can prove me wrong?
You speak of isolation.....too much self affliction when locked in your cell.

Keep up the hate preaching......btw......where is the cunt of argentina these days......we can't smell her around lately?
163 emerald (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:09 pm Report abuse
*154*/*162*

Think
do not talk yourself,

You “ Colorado Owl ” !!
164 Clyde15 (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:20 pm Report abuse
#156
I think you must be referring to Queen Victoria - ancient history - but Liz 2 had your arse well and truly kicked in 1982 - current history.
#160
Is Ghana and the rest of Africa on this list also?
I don't think the rest of the world -(not factual but my opinion) -will miss your sparkling and effervescent company. You are welcome to sit on your own dung heap and crow, or howl at the moon if that suits you.
And a merry Christmas to you too !
165 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:34 pm Report abuse
#153 We talk about them all the time, you don't know that because you have never been there. You are only told what to think....hence the “light thinker”.

Now back to focusing on this article rather than divert. This blog, afterall is about talking ARGENTINA........not the USA or UK
166 emerald (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:39 pm Report abuse
*164*

Think
well done
talk someone else with your other names sometimes even though you do not aware of the world..
you trapped easily , lummox boy
You “ Colorado Owl ”
167 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:45 pm Report abuse
So is “Colorado Oel” the new la campora mantra, or insult of the day? lol
168 emerald (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:50 pm Report abuse
*167*

“Colorado Owl ” not “ Colorado Oel”

neither mantra nor insult !
169 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:53 pm Report abuse
So what does it mean? To call someone a Colorado owl?
170 emerald (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 08:56 pm Report abuse
ask Think !
171 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 09:10 pm Report abuse
@160 Nostril

Oh, dear. Was that an official message from Alicia Castro to the British, English-speaking people of the world? As usual, not very diplomatic, but she expresses herself far better in German than she did on English TV.

I don't know why you posted in German on an English-only forum, but I've wished the Editor a 'Merry Christmas' and asked him to remove it.

Not that I have anything against the Germans, of course. They are our friends and allies again.
They make wunderbar (wonderful ) cars!
In fact, I would prefer to drive my Mercedes down to Cslifornia, but I only have summer performance tires on it. We'll take my new Toyota SUV instead, it has 4x4 and snow tires.

Germans make delicious meats and sausage too!
I expect that the only sausage you taste will the one that your politicians give you.

Enjoy your day, filled with happy thoughts of Christmas.
172 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 09:39 pm Report abuse
I wrote in French and Spanish also... it was my “Urbi et Orbi” on behalf of the Argentine people, in the spirit of your holiday (not Argentina's, we eschew these imperialist traditions).

I have had some people read the stuff said about Argentines in this and the Dave Cameron thread. They are appalled, and many who were formerly friendly to foreigners have promesed me to seriousl reassess how they treat and how they handle foreigners.
173 shb (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 10:13 pm Report abuse
@146 - You forgot to mention the connection to the lizard people who secretly run the world, they are using MJ12 and alien technology to mind control us all.

WAIT...............Sorry - I got confused for a second and got the plot for the film “They live” mixed up with the real world.

Or were you saying everything is the fault of the jews? I seem to have heard that one before as well.........Little man, funny moustach, shot himself in the head in 1945 after inflicting utter misery on millions of people for the sake of his sad little delusions of racial superiority.
174 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 10:15 pm Report abuse
@172Nozzy

“I have had some people read the stuff said about Argentines in this and the Dave Cameron thread. They are appalled, and many who were formerly friendly to foreigners have promesed me to seriousl reassess how they treat and how they handle foreigners.”

Nozzy, you've attacked us with spiteful, untrue, propaganda attacks and misrepresented us to the world, before. What is different now?

With your limited circle of 'people' (I seriously doubt that you have any 'friends' of consequence, if at all) , likely to be brainwashed and/or uneducated LaCampora, I don't who is left to convince. Your impressionable boy-lover perhaps?

The educated middle class likely know that you are just jealous.

Wishing Argentina better times ahead.

Too bad you are wallowing in a festering pool of hateful thoughts on Christmas Day.

Meanwhile, I'm joining a huge gathering of my family and friends for a party.

Goodnight. Happy thoughts. :- )
175 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 10:45 pm Report abuse
“Nozzy, you've attacked us with spiteful, untrue, propaganda attacks and misrepresented us to the world, before.”

Don't like a dish serve cold? Well, you know the rest of that one.
176 Troy Tempest (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 10:56 pm Report abuse
I'm saying that your comment is inconsequential, dumkopf.
177 so_far (#) Dec 25th, 2012 - 11:50 pm Report abuse
# 156

“ But she was kicked in the arse twice trying to take us over didn't she..”

Well....were at least 3

“Battle of Vuelta de Obligado”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vuelta_de_Obligado

The next round and without waste a single bullet, will be finest and last one....

LatAm will prevail
178 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 12:11 am Report abuse
Nostril, titti boi, toby whatevcer.......only the communist peronist don't celebrate Christmas. Tell it to someone who's never been there. You really should stop worshipping yourself, it betrays your youthful ignorance. Cuntia kirchner seems to celebrate Christmas......perhaps it just you momma that does not allow the celebrations of Christmas.
179 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 01:54 am Report abuse
What part of “Argentina wants nothing to do with any of you” do you people not fail to cerebrate?
180 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 02:26 am Report abuse
when el presidente stops sending an ambassador to the USA, when el presidente stops asking US oil companies for help, when asslips stops whinning about limons and bife imports to the USA will I believe agentina wants nothing to do with us. In the meantime, it's you.....the little tiity suckler latching his mommas comfort speaking for himself........lol. Want some cookies with your mommas milk?
181 Great Britain (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 02:39 am Report abuse
The sad thing about this is that the pro-Kirchner contingent on this board must, at the very least, be aware that her methods are questionable and I would argue in most cases are in a state of denial.

Consider the following.

a) Kirchner has used the Falklands issue to ramp up nationalism in the same way that Galtieri did.

b) Kirchner has made every effort to crack-down on dissenting news outlets, by dissenting I mean independent.

c) Kirchner continues to falsify inflation and growth data, an unprecedented act and one that will likely see Argentina kicked out of the IMF and possibly the G-20.

d) Any criticism of her 'administration' (I have a compelling urge to say “regime”) is met with diversion, generally appealing to xenophobia.

Therefore:

1) The Riots are caused by foreign powers who have suborned trade-unions.
2) The financial situation is caused by foreign hedge-funds.
3) The “independent/dissenting” news-outlets are controlled by foreign interests.

And generally for problem “x” the cause is listed as “y”, which in most cases invokes the paranoia that the rest of the world is somehow against Argentina.

The irony is that this behaviour is diagnostically indicative of desperation, it is symptomatic of “regimes” where real “data” can not be provided, therefore obfuscation is the order of the day.

For most Argentinians this is going to result in the continuing erosion of their savings/wealth, eventually Kirchner's regi... administration will crack but not until the cycle is complete (once again) which begs the question, for the Argentinians here, I don't feel animosity towards you, but honestly can you not see flaws in Kirchner's modus operandi?

Are you so blinded by nationalism that facts that are now being reported internationally are not part of a pan-global conspiracy but rather indicate genuine concern at the dishonest unmitigated incompetence of Kirchner's administration.

I wish you all the best, please think about this.
182 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 02:44 am Report abuse
I would like to respond.

.

.

However, I don't discuss domestic affairs with foreigners.
183 Great Britain (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 03:04 am Report abuse
I would respectfully point out that you have indeed discussed domestic affairs with “foreigners” on numerous occasions on this board.

I would suggest that the problem is that you, as someone with a degree of intelligence are probably just as aware of the problems as any other observer.

Therefore it is merely your inability to move past the point of vehement nationalism that inhibits your ability to critically assess the data or at least to admit to doing so publicly.

Whenever a powerful leader asserts extraordinary international persecution as an excuse for any failing in government, repeatedly fails to deliver non-falsified data (required by the international community) and clamps down on independent journalism you have a situation that is destined to become evermore authoritarian.

As I said in a previous post; they cheered Peron, they cheered Galtieri and now they cheer Kirchner, what part of the Argentinian psyche is so rooted in mindless uncritical nationalism that the entire nation must be periodically ransacked and forced into penury?
184 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 03:11 am Report abuse
No I have not ever discussed internal argentine politics. I merely restrict myself to defending my country from the obloquy, slander, and abuse by a multitude of foreign contributors.

As I have said before, the North Americans have a saying “All politics cease at the seashore”, or something to that effect.

Reflect upon that quote and then you may understand why Argentines in this forum are all united-- against the foreigners.

And you do realize your government routinely falsifies information also right? I don't care what your country is, that is part of the reason YOU are in the rather distress economic situation of the last five years... due to a heap of lying, fudging, and mangling of numbers and figures. Even now your interest rates have been manipulated, unemployment rates massaged by governments, etc, etc.
185 shb (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 10:02 am Report abuse
@Nostrolldamus The 5th
The difference between us and you is we know and admit that our govt lies about statistics to try and raise morale whereas the average Argentine poster here will deny that there is any kind of problem in your country when there plainly is.

If your country is making international news with the extent both of it's problems and the attempted coverup about them, you need to ask yourself just what sort of position your country is in.

We know we are in recession up here, and it will last for years, it's pointless your lot trying to deny that your eceonomy is'nt also facing immense problems.

When the rest of the world no longer believes what your govt is saying about your situation, you have a major problem that will lead to increased hardship for your people. No one wants to lend to someone who will not pay their debts back or trade with someone who attempts protectionism. Likewise picking pointless territorial disputes with a major player on the international stage is hardly likely to address issues of poverty, graft, corruption and investment is it?

Your lot really needs to sort out what is important and get a life.

Try caring about the poor and needy in Argentina instead of trying to wreck a nearby peacefull community who want little to do with you.

Stop lying to and cheating those you trade with.

Then you may make some progress towards a better society.
186 Clyde15 (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 10:11 am Report abuse
#177
And what round will that be - the world's Tango championships ?
You would certainly be favourites there. World's self-delusion champions. I agree we could not even compete at your level. You would have a walk-over.
187 lsolde (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 11:07 am Report abuse
@183 Great Britain,
lts pointless trying to have a rational discussion with Nostril-the-5th because he is a Dickhead.
188 Joe Bloggs (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 11:13 am Report abuse
187 Isolde

Stop beating round the bush and say what you really think. LOL!
189 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 11:20 am Report abuse
#183 While your words are profoundly accurate, they are correct in that it has no effect on that individual......the level of indoctrination he exhibits is beyond discussion. He is an exception though, they are not all like him. My wifeis there now and I will be there for a while very soon. I expect it to be sharply directly from my last visit. I suspect he does not “discuss” argentine politics with non argentines becuase of the fact of someone outside looking in has a more objective POV......that is something that argentines cannot handle well.....criticism. They do not view criticism as a learning tool, they view it as an insult.
Titti boi....never heard heard that “North American” saying before did you make that up or bastardize O'Neils...“All politics are local” ? You should understand it's meaning before you use it as it relates to campaigning.
190 Nostralldamus The 6th (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 11:35 am Report abuse
I have been wrong to carry on the way I have on here and it's time to put the record straight. As I have always said, I have no beef with the people of the Falkland Isands. I believe we (Argentina) should leave the Kelpers in peace and allow them to thrive.

I am sorry for everything I have said about the US, Europe and especially the UK. This site is, I guess, a bit infectious and I got carried away. Please forgive me for my immature behaviour.

Seasons Greetings to one and all.
191 yankeeboy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 11:49 am Report abuse
Cap, I am looking forward to your posts about the cost of goods while you are there. I hear that the shelves are bear of the price controlled items and “grocery store” inflation is running 50% now.
I hope you have electricity while you are visiting. With the heat index of 120 and no a/c it must be unbearable.
Did you see there was a commando assault of a family's home near the Presidential Quinta in Olivos. Masked gunmen with machine guns held the family hostage until they removed all their christmas gifts and other valuables. I wonder how many of these assaults go unreported? So be careful! It is the reason I moved back to the USA too many of those types of problems in my old neighborhood for my taste.
192 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 12:47 pm Report abuse
I probably will not post while I am there, just out of respect to my wives family. They know the reality of Argentina and do not like it. I know they will experience major outages this summer. Yesterday was 45 in the city (BA).
Maybe I will get online once or twice.
193 jkw (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 12:53 pm Report abuse
There's capital and labour....a relationship that can be predatory or mutually beneficial, and those that choose a predatory relationship will almost always tear fight against any socially beneficial relationship.....but it is a losing battle in SA....truly.....
194 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 02:45 pm Report abuse
Yankee I read now the bankers are going on strike. Every where you turn in argentina some workers segment is striking......border agents, teachers, famrers, truckers, trash collectors. I think kirchner's regime is in over it's head. Everyone strikes when the government tries to control everything, they do not get it.
195 yankeeboy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 03:04 pm Report abuse
CFK is pushing for a 20% rise in salary for 2013. So let's see, they plan to depreciate the peso at least by 20% ( I bet much more) and inflation is predicted at 36% so a 20% rise will actually be what 1/2 of their purchasing power? And against the U$?
There are so many price distortions now and this is exactly what happened before the last crash. BA was more expensive than NYC or London then...it wasn't.
Except this time no IMF WB or IDB $ will be forthcoming.
Ouch.
196 ChrisR (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 04:29 pm Report abuse
@105

Using your figures the pesos nets out at 61.44%.

Now as to the value of the pesos against the USD (if they have any) I can say only this:
HA, HA, HA, HA.

They voted for her, they have only themselves to blame (apologies to Simon68 and others).
197 Clyde15 (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 05:54 pm Report abuse
#190
I understand totally what you are saying. At times the posts get totally out of hand and the invective gets racked up to the point of absurdity. If people spoke face - to-face then they would hopefully rein in their comments.
As I have said often, I have no hatred or even dislike of the Argentinian population as such. Their politicians yes, but I don't think much of the politicians in the UK either. I only dislike individuals, not races or countries.
I deplore the continual sniping comments about the looks of CFK, Castro and the recent appointee Nahon. By all means judge them by their actions NOT by their physical attributes.
Anyway, I am now being dragged off by my grand daughters to watch the DVD of Brave ------- everywhere I turn now women are in charge - maybe not a bad thing !
198 yankeeboy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 07:09 pm Report abuse
I'm guessing the RG posters are still in a black out. Going on 3 days now and summer just began a couple days ago!
One thing that people in the north don't realize is most nice houses and condos have a reserve water supply that lasts 3-5 days in their attic or on the roofs (big condo bldgs downtown) but if the pumps aren't working there will be no water in the reserve. Electricity goes out all the time and it is another reason I came back home.
199 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 07:20 pm Report abuse
Electricity is strange in argentina. My in laws lost power after those storms and flooding last month, in Recoletta. They got electricty back on in the building but not the water pumps. I can understnd if that was an issue with a distribution box, but it still had to do with the electric company.
200 yankeeboy (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 07:57 pm Report abuse
It is because there are no standards or if there is nobody bothers to pay attention to them. I had to learn you unplug anything expensive or hard to get whenever there was a storm, if you were going to be gone for an extended amount of time and when there is a blackout.
I don't know how many times I had to replace electronics because of the brownouts. It got to be pretty expensive and a pain!
Yet another reason I moved back to the USA.
201 ChrisR (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 08:12 pm Report abuse
@199

I think you will find that the blackouts have more to do with the flooding of the electrical cables which are run underground.

For some reason, countries with local overhead supplies seem unable to ensure the underground cables are correctly laid out. It should only be a problem when the local substation is swamped and the switchgear is unable to cope.

The AG union guy was quoted as saying as much (but it was in Clarin!).

Brownouts are another problem directly related to the inability of the electrical generation to maintain the declared system voltage. The answer here is to bring more generating stations on line, assuming they have them of course: but doesn't Argentina have plenty of everything? :o)
202 ICFreedom (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 08:49 pm Report abuse
if CFK keeps her corruption up, she will likely go down in history as one of the very few elected dictators in the modern era single handedly responsible for more misery despite the huge natural resources and capacity for wealth (that they are too stiupid to manage) than the worst dictatorships in twice the time - unfortunately, stupid kirchneristas dont see it even when its right in front of them..
203 Ayayay (#) Dec 26th, 2012 - 09:24 pm Report abuse
So yuck how BOTH sides there don't credit free will as the cause.
204 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 12:21 am Report abuse
Yes Chris they were the results of the floods. What I could not understand is that the electric company controlled numerous routes in the building. Here in the USA, it's bascially one route in the distributed via a circuit box. The elevators were off and was the water, but the electricity was on in all the apartments. The the “lifts” came on and a few days later, the pumps for the water.
205 ChrisR (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 11:42 am Report abuse
@204

The reason for that is the electric company has to balance the load over each of the three phases in each supply cable AND between each building otherwise the alternators at the power station get out of balance and all sorts of nasty things can happen then.

The elevators and the pumps would each be on their own 3-ph supply which is why the operating resumption times were different.

Lighting and 'soft power use' such as TV, fridges, A/C, etc would be off a single phase for one apartment (L1), the next apartment on another phase in the same cable (L2) and the next apartment on the third phase in the same cable (L3). This would be repeated throughout the block unless the building is very large and needs two or more 3-ph cable connected as before to power all the apartments.

Hope this helps. :o)
206 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 01:19 pm Report abuse
Not really, but thanks for the attempt.
207 Falkland Islands (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 03:27 pm Report abuse
pirat hunter, he is obviously is hunting for more pirats to join him. he loves dictators and nazis, do you pull out peoples fingernails, kneecap them and put people in electric chairs etc. You are a very sad individual that should be locked up for eternity. oh by the way, I am away from the British Falkland Islands at the moment, maybe if you would give me your address. I would like a little chat face to face, up for it?
208 yankeeboy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 03:38 pm Report abuse
205. Actually that explains a lot! I could never figure out what was really going on at my Quinta, some electricity would be out but not all. It was crazy and I could never really get a straight answer.
209 British_Kirchnerist (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 03:51 pm Report abuse
#194 “I read now the bankers are going on strike”

Hope they don't come back =)

#197 Nice comment =)
210 yankeeboy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 04:12 pm Report abuse
209. Yes I hope it is a protracted strike long enough so that everyone runs out of money, 14 days should do it.
That would be hilarious!
211 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 05:30 pm Report abuse
How brilliant of a statement, you hoipe they don't come back. BK .....do you hate doctors too because their make more than a banker? Tell more how a country will run without banks? No paychecks cashed.....no utility bills or rents paid.......sure will go over well. What a brilliant wish for Argentina BK.....and I thought you had an effection for Argentina?
The Supreme Court unanmimously rejected CFK's request for per saltum AND also rejected their tcomplant against the civil court for extending the injunction.
212 Simon68 (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 05:32 pm Report abuse
209 British_Kirchnerist (#)
Dec 27th, 2012 - 03:51 pm

You are thick, B_K, it is the bank employees who are on srike, not the bankers.
213 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 06:23 pm Report abuse
Simone it is useless to say anything to the “pretend” Scottsman from la campora
214 British_Kirchnerist (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 07:35 pm Report abuse
I was being facetious, but I think most ordinary people would sympathise with my sentiment on bankers...
215 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 09:18 pm Report abuse
I think perhaps the people that cannot manage money, financing and debts. Other thn that, most normal, hard working people see bankers as no different from any other industry out to make money......something the communist and socialist find repulsive. The concept of someone earning more for working harder than someone working ato barely get by. Communism an socialism not only breeds contempt, but mediocrity.
216 redpoll (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
Lets face it Both Moyano and De Angeli of the farmers union are just using thier “leadership” of thier respective unions as a stepladder for thier own political ambitions
217 British_Kirchnerist (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 10:04 pm Report abuse
#215 So you don't think theres any difference between productive business and finance, derivitives etc?

#216 Exactly
218 ChrisR (#) Dec 27th, 2012 - 10:40 pm Report abuse
@217 BSK

You clearly have let your hatred for 'Bankers' whatever you perceive them to be to confuse their function for business.

Derivatives are what you should concentrate on. These are nothing more than financial gambles (and in the case of Lehman Bros there was not even a gamble - you had lost before you started) on whether the people who were in the structure paid their debts. OBarmy, when he was a Senator did the worst thing ever: he got a Bill approved to force the two Fannys to give mortgages to anybody with a pulse, mainly blacks of course. And they grabbed their chance at the good life (and who can blame them) without understanding what would happen when the short term offers which made their payments manageable, expired, hence the foreclosures and the collapse of the value of the derivatives.

I personally made a lot of money off derivatives but I understood what was going on and acted accordingly.

So, Bankers are necessary, financial ‘houses’ perhaps not so BUT under NO circumstances should the two exist within the same bank, ever! IMO
219 Captain Poppy (#) Dec 28th, 2012 - 12:26 am Report abuse
Chris Obarmy as you call him only sponsored two bills that made it to law,in the USA anyway. Seems like you read a hybrid version between the republicans and the tea baggers. The stuff you are talking about with fannie and freddie was worked up by Barney Frank. But that was not the real cause of the melt down......that mess unraveled over years from both parties deregulating. It would take more than 1800 characters to detail the actual bills that unraveled to create the mess. I know being an englishman you dislike Obama. He did not sponsor a bill to get black people the chance to own homes they cannot afford. The white man Barney Frank did that.
As you BK don't confuse greedy market makers with bankers. One may be called an investment banker, but they are anything but a banker. Unfunded debt swaps should be illegal. AIG is a classic example of lack of controls and unfunded investments fueled solely on greed. And then there are the bank tellers on strike that you confuse as bankers themselves.
220 Shed-time (#) Dec 29th, 2012 - 04:19 pm Report abuse
'shameless thieving autocracy and dreadful governance led to rioting', says Mr Obvious.
221 Nostrolldamus The 5th (#) Dec 29th, 2012 - 09:19 pm Report abuse
What would the Anglo-saxons know about riot control, for over a week the brigands in some island off Europe reverted to their original form of pillaging and looting.

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